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Colleen Figg

'Don't ban the old flag'

2009-06-05 09:49

I saw a report that there has been a call for the legal banning of the old South African flag.

The chief reason for wanting the flag banned is what it symbolises to the historically oppressed sector of this country. When I said, in answer to an online question, that I would be sad to see the flag banned, someone asked me whether I do not care about what the flag means to millions of black people.

Of course I care; I care as much as I can, as much as I, a white kid from a privileged background, with no real understanding of a black person's life under apartheid, can. I wish I could fully steep myself in the experiences and then maybe I could honestly and emphatically say, ban that flag.

But you see, for me, and for millions of other South Africans, this issue is not about race, but about emotion, patriotism, the sense of belonging.

That was the flag we grew up with, the flag our men did their national service under, swore allegiance to, for better or for worse; most of the time with no knowledge, politically speaking, of who or what they were swearing allegiance to, not embracing any ideologies, just simply being the product of their own upbringing, the same as the black people who hate the flag were being.

But the issue is difficult and complex and its very expression implies insensitivity to other people's experiences. What is important to the people who love this flag becomes hateful and hurtful to those who hate it, so it is very hard to avoid sliding down the treacherous slope of the political or racial angle because for many, there simply is no other angle.

I do not agree with the flag being waved at rugby matches (which is what sparked the call for banning) or saluted or recognised as a secondary South African flag, but an outright ban I do and will resist as vocally as possible.

Am I expected to expunge from my emotional memory, all symbols of my own past? Am I not, as a South African who did not choose which regime she lived under, still entitled to love what I grew up knowing?

Is there a way that we, black and white, can sit across a table, and understand, each of us, what the other sees, perceives and feels with regard to potentially explosive topics such as this or will we always be polarised, I in my camp and you in yours, forever unable to truly grasp what the other is saying and meaning?

Do we, will we, always only see things through our own perspectives - which I am also doing here, I admit - or will there come a day when we will break through and understand the layers that make up a life, that make up a perception, that make up an individual’s own reality, his own history, his own past?

If that day comes, we will all be truly free.

Send your comments to Colleen

Disclaimer: News24 encourages freedom of speech and the expression of diverse views. The views of columnists published on News24 are therefore their own and do not necessarily represent the views of News24.

- News24


ninja 6/5/2009 10:10:40 AM
Sure to provoke many a reaction... but this is sensibly written and logical. There are alot of emotive issues binding many South Africans, and frank, honest discussion is what's needed to move forward. I admire your bravery for standing up for that which you believe, and by doing it in a manner which doesn't marginalise anyone (... and I am not caucasian).

Dee 6/5/2009 10:14:53 AM
Here Here!! What a brilliant opinion. While the flag means heartache for some it means love of our country for others! We need to understand this and come to terms that there is two sides to the flag, respected by all!!

Gary 6/5/2009 10:15:08 AM
History of any discription should never be "banned" that is political censorship. I agree with you wholeheartedly

Thabo 6/5/2009 10:16:41 AM
have to be honest, just read the first two paragraphs of your "compelling article" and i have one question: are you kidding me? you make the point of the fact that it brings feelings of disgrace to millions of black south africans, and so we need to keep it because it makes you all warm and gooey and proud of the fact that you were not discriminated against? again i ask the question: are you kidding me? if you want to keep the flag, keep it at your house.

Anon 6/5/2009 10:17:46 AM
Please don't ban the flag... But by the same token, keep the flag out of stadiums and other public places. It clearly upsets a significant amount of South Africans, black or white, when that flag is flown at world class sporting events.... Do you think the players who score points (like Habanna for example) are proud of those retards flying it? Certainly not. The old flag will always be a reminder of the white supremecy the governments under that flag advocated, and the suffering of black people under that government. As much as you say you understand, you know nothing and you understand jack...

Paul 6/5/2009 10:19:25 AM
While I respect the columinst point of view, I have to disagree, with her comment about "Am I not, as a South African who did not choose which regime she lived under, While I respect the columnist point of view, I have to disagree, with her comment about "Am I not, as a South African who did not choose which regime she lived under, still entitled to love what I grew up knowing". I think in retrospect if you now know that your fortunate upbringing and lifestyle was the result of the oppression of millions you shouldn’t want that entitlement and rather be ashamed of it. It’s like a German saying that they didn’t know that their leaders where oppressing people and that they had a good life and then after finding out what happened saying that they were still proud of that regime because of the happy memories they had.

fern 6/5/2009 10:19:26 AM
So we might as well fly Nazi flags then hey? people who wave that ugly do it knowingly. It is offensive not only to blacks but most non-afrikaaner whites.

Louis 6/5/2009 10:22:21 AM
Colleen, I agree. Displaying the old S.A. flag should not be banned. It would be the same then suggesting that the flags from the apartheid era like the shield and assegaai of the ANC be banned at soccer matches.

Gys 6/5/2009 10:23:22 AM
I couldn't agree with you more! This was where we learned respect and discipline. The flag wasn't responsible for anything wrong, but was a symbol of who we were. Even if the flag is banned, memories will remain!

Habari 6/5/2009 10:23:57 AM
If there is one thing that makes my blood boil, is that flag. The Gov must make it illegal for that flag to be shown anywhere in this beautiful country

Brian 6/5/2009 10:24:34 AM
You make a fair point. I personally don't like the old flag, and I spent the first 15 odd years of my life under it. I did not swear allegiance to it or fight under it, so those emotions don't affect me. I don't think the flag should be banned out right since it is a part of history, but I think that it has no place at sporting events. Every time I see a crowd shot with it, I cringe. It someone wishes to have one at home, that is fine, but leave it there. Imagine having the debate whether the swastika should be allowed to be waved at German football games. Some of you may argue that this is not the same debate, but I feel that both flags could invoke the same emotions in those that were oppressed under them. Also purely from an aesthetics point of view, I think the new South African flag is much better looking.

JapieDownUnder 6/5/2009 10:27:24 AM
What the so-called "majority" don't understand is that calling for a ban of the old flag they actually promote its use. I was more than prepared to say goodbye to the Oranje Blanje Blou as we lowered it for the last time back in 1994 I think. I was serving in the SADF at the time and it was an extremely emotional time for us. But then the new flag was unveiled and it promised a fresh beginning and a vibrancy that the old flag no longer had. But after 14 years the new flag is starting to loose its shine - it is becoming a symbol of a South Africa in decline governed by the ANC and representing "it's people" only. I am starting to think that I might just dust off my old flag again and wave it proudly in defiance of the new regime........

Daile 6/5/2009 10:28:16 AM
if you don't like it-ban it. I grim reminder of our apartheid past.
The old flag can bring back many nightmares to the people that suffered under it especially those who lost family and loved ones. The people whose only crime was to want justice.
However, let us not forget those who fought and died under the same flag to prevent a form of oppression that was far worse than apartheid.
Just imagine a South Africa under Nazi rule where anyone different, like Jews and blacks, were systematically slaughtered in order to preserve racial purity.
The old flag deserves a place in our history like in museums but definately not at sports matches

Hippi 6/5/2009 10:30:04 AM
its all good well to keep the old flag for whatever reason one chooses but but the fact remains that it is a very painful symbol for some of us and it can't be use on any official occasions or as symbol of this country cause it will then not represent everyone living in this land of ours.

JC 6/5/2009 10:30:34 AM
Wow! As an Afrikaner, I also love this flag, not because of racist politics, but because I sang Die Stem and Vlaglied with pride as a schoolboy. You have summed up lots of whites' feelings very accurately. We cannot choose who or what we love, hence we cannot apologize for it, or be denied the opportunity to live it!

lloyd macklin 6/5/2009 10:30:35 AM
I personally disliked the old flag and what it represented but under no circumstances should it be banned. You cannot change history by pretending that it never happened. Unfortunately we are in a process of changing our history to conform with the ideology of the 'victors'. MK, as an example, is now remembered as being highly trained soldiers who defeated the SANDF. For all that, I do agree that idiots who wave the old flag at Rugby games with the intention of causing resentment should be prosecuted.

Henk 6/5/2009 10:31:21 AM
Well written article, reasoned and fair I'd say. Banning the flag also raises the question what else in our 300 year history do we ban? who determines that and where does it stop?

John 6/5/2009 10:31:52 AM
Well written, I have both flags in my pub at home, the "old" remembering my youth and military service on our borders, the "new" hoping that we are able to move forward and establish a better South Africa.

Piet Strydom 6/5/2009 10:32:16 AM
It is time that we start looking forward, and accept the past. No amount of censorship will achieve anything. Maybe the same topic, maybe a different one - my daughter has to write an essay in school earlier this month, comparing Nazism, to apartheid....

Alison 6/5/2009 10:33:48 AM
Well written Colleen. I had similar thoughts to yours when I heard comment on banning the flag.
I was thinking recently that despite enjoying the new anthem, my memory for the words of the old anthem will probably always be stronger - because I learnt them as a child, so they became a part of me (and I only came here as an 8 year old).

simon 6/5/2009 10:33:50 AM
dont ban the flag, burn it.

k 6/5/2009 10:34:22 AM
thank you for the thought our article, i don't understand how a country of ours can preach respect for all it's people and it's customs and then try to do something like this - all this will do is create more animosity between black and white people, because effectively this is just one more thing we all grew up with that is now being thrown in the trash, in the same way that the kids at school now don't learn a huge chunk of history - just because they felt the need to remove it from the text books! respect for all, respect us and we will respect you!

colin 6/5/2009 10:34:23 AM
Colleen I am very disappointed that you can defend the old symbols of apartheid and make it out to be symbols of patriotism - I ask you patriotism towards what - a country who tortured its masses - even if you and your people were misled by the old government is no excuse to defend these symbols or make them out to be something of value - should the Nazis be proud of there symbol (Swastika) and defend it the way you do - would the Jews be happy about that or should they just try a view thing trough the perspective of Nazi Germans. I say ban the flag it is a symbol of murder marginalization and corruption we do not need it to be part of our society in any form.

A 6/5/2009 10:34:34 AM
History should never be forgotten, no matter how good or bad it may be for an individual or for a nation. So, if it symbolises patriotism and a sense of belonging to some, it could symbolise a place and time where we don’t wish to return to for others. I think the flag should stay, to satisfy the emotive needs of each South African irrespective of their opinion towards what it symbolises. You should never forget your past, if you do, you may repeat the mistakes of those before you.

Quaser 6/5/2009 10:35:15 AM
Interesting opinion that is sure to get some vitriolic responses. I agree that the old flag should not be banned, but for a slightly different reason. The old flag symbolises apartheid, much like the Nazi flag symbolises the horrendous holocaust. I believe that these symbols are important to remind us of the evil of the past and focus us on ensuring it is never repeated. By denying, or banning, unsavoury parts of our history, makes us more likely to repeat these mistakes. As a result, I am encouraged by the outcry everytime a palooka waves his old flag at a rugby or cricket match. (Funny how no one has yet seen fit to wave one at a Chiefs v Pirates derby...)

simon 6/5/2009 10:36:57 AM
Whould it be nice to go to loftus versveld with a very big ANC flag?

Rob Breslin 6/5/2009 10:37:07 AM
Please spare us your apartheid nostalgia. You must be completely insensitive to what that flag symbolises for the MAJORITY of this nation. "the flag our men did their national service under" - OUR men? WHOSE men? The old flag should be banned for the same reason the swastika flag is banned in Germany.

Advena 6/5/2009 10:43:53 AM
How south African is our flag in any case? I saw a movie the other night about the Jamaican Olympic bobsliding team that was made in the late 80's early 90's and the whole time something look familiar. Then it dawned on me there olympic clothes is our "New flag" So my question remains?

Angus 6/5/2009 10:49:33 AM
If you feel patriotic towards the old flag maybe you feel patriotic to the privileges you enjoyed then. Maybe you should fly to the moon.

Huh? 6/5/2009 10:49:36 AM
You certainly are looking for a reaction of some sort by writing this article. The flag symbolises a nation of hate and epitomises the true extent of what levels of disgrace the masses will go to for their own greed and pleasure. Come one come all. There are far too many people who suffered at the hands of digsuting narrow minded fools, who, whilst swinging a baton with one hand were waving the flag whistling 'die stem' in the other. From my experience, if you were one of the very few that never jumped on the back of a bakkie with the rest of a brainwashed nation. Hats off! If your memories are only good and the flag refreshes them. Hats Off! The flag symbolises pain and suffering and simply evokes hate (more of it) in the hearts and minds of the majority of our citizens. Although banning it is probable not necessary, be sure that when you hang it up and do something a simple as sip on a castle lager whilst turning a chop, that those that consider that nothing but a pipe a dream will never forget. Not in their lifetime. Let go. The bad outweighs the good. For all our sakes..

Taser 6/5/2009 10:52:30 AM
While I absolutely detest the 'old' flag (I did national service under it, against my wishes), I have to agree that you should not ban it. One of the few things which make a democracy a TRUE democracy, is freedom of speech. In the USA the 'hillbilly' southerners still wave their flag (used in the civil war). While most other Americans don't subscribe to those ideals, the southern flag is not banned, because of everyone's right to freedom of expression.

fern 6/5/2009 10:53:40 AM
Ny thoughts exactly Rob. People are still in denial that we lived under a Nazi type regime. I don't want to associated with that crap anymore. Burn

fern 6/5/2009 10:55:44 AM
Simon. The ANC is a political party. We are talking about the national flag here. Wake up and smell the coffee, oom.

Chez 6/5/2009 10:56:24 AM
Well said Ninja, Colleen is brave to say this out loud. I grew up as a privelidged whitie in the 70's but understand how people must hate that flag. i lost friends at the border but it was not to defend the flag; it was to defend the diamonds in Namibia. I much prefer the new flag anyway. I have no ties to Europe and am a pure Afican. Besides don't you guys remember how difficult it was to draw the old flag at school? What a pain!!

Anel 6/5/2009 10:56:31 AM
erm...What is a non Afrikaner white??
Define please.

Adam Oxford 6/5/2009 10:58:00 AM
Banning anything is never really an answer, but intelligent people who feel patriotic should be searching for new symbols which everyone who feels the same way can adopt, rather than pining for something they openly acknowledge is divisive.

Warren 6/5/2009 10:59:07 AM
I agree; we shouldn't ban the flag. This simple flag is the perfect way to look at a crowd of thousands of rugby fans and immediatly know which of them is the most ignorant, dim witted and bigotted, simply by looking at those with the flag.

PJ 6/5/2009 11:02:06 AM
Thabo "to keep it because it makes you all warm and gooey and proud of the fact that you were not discriminated against? again i ask the question: are you kidding me? if you want to keep the flag, keep it at your house." I lost some mates fighting for that flag, in retrospect, what did you and millions of the other oppressed do? Go on holiday to Tanzania or sit around lounging way north of the Angolan/Namibian cutline in the 1980s. Many males in between 40 and 58 would have preferred it to be different, but it was not. Let us keep the flag to honour our war-dead in private ceremonies.

Adrian 6/5/2009 11:03:03 AM
The old Union flag had absolutely NOTHING to do with apartheid or race. It came into being in 1910. Apartheid got a name in 1948. Get real!
The new flag on the other hand has a sad symbolism. For those who do not know:
The red symbolises the beautiful susnshine of SA, the blue, the blue sky, the white lines, the whites, the black triangle, the blacks and the green, the wine and fruit farms. The yellow is barbed wire to keep the blacks out!

Ziyaad 6/5/2009 11:03:39 AM
I think they should ban that flag from public places. If you cling to that old flag, that means you have not embraced the knew democracy and you still stand for what that old flag represented. You can have the flag in your home or as your bedsheets! if i was a afrikaaner i would be ashamed of that flag,because surely in this modern day and age afrikaaners should reflect and admit that they were believing and following a foolish dream. Well in 1994 the bubble burst. But it seems some still want to live in that bubble!

GW 6/5/2009 11:03:45 AM
Hi
I agree to keep the old flag. It does mean a lot to us guys who went to the border and defended this country at the tender age of 18. May whites's as per this forum with negative comments, never served in the SADF and suddenly they are so politically correct.

Stantheman 6/5/2009 11:03:50 AM
I fully concur with Thabo and Paul.....Get A Life guys.....flying the `old' SA flag at rugby matches is much the same as Paul suggests is for Germans to wave a Nazi flag at world Cup Soccer because it was the era that some of the older generation grew up in and Whilst it in no way suggests an affiliation to Hitler and his SS cronies but more of an association with the time warp moment that they grew up in which for them was inspiring and filled them with national pride!..........What a load of balderdash! It is harmful not only to millions of black people but let me shock you many passionate South Africans of all denominations who LOVe Rugby just as much if not more than the small minded minority who insist in hauling out there moth balled dinosaur relic from the past. Sies man......it's about time you moved on and embraced the new flag. On the question of banning the flag completely....no it deserves it's place in the Voortreker Monument Museum or Apartheid Museum...but at sport stadiums....a resounding yes....let it be banned! It serves no nation building purpose whatsoever. If you choose to contstantly insist on living in the past....I'm afraid you're HISTORY!

ivago 6/5/2009 11:04:26 AM
I respect the writers opinion about the flag. The flag is part of SA history and that is where it should stay. For the people who feel all warm when they think about what memories it brings should think about it again and put themselves in the shoes of the people who where oppressed by it. Honestly speaking I think they which they were still in the past selfishly enjoying all those benefits.

hennie gerber 6/5/2009 11:04:32 AM
So much for a so called Democratic Country??,If you want to keep the old SA flag then so bee it.Stop worrying about petting things like a FLAG and start concerning yourself s with real criminal activities that needs more attention than a FLAG!!!,
This is why the country is where it is..

Kelly 6/5/2009 11:04:53 AM
I agree that the old flag should NOT be banned. I don't in the least bit like it, but it's part of our history and something we should use as a reminder of the times we should not let happen again....
Waving it around at a sporting game is just stupid.

Rheece 6/5/2009 11:05:00 AM
"I do not agree with the flag being waved at rugby matches (which is what sparked the call for banning) or saluted or recognised as a secondary South African flag, but an outright ban I do and will resist as vocally as possible." Sensible enough, yet for those who wish to keep it as a memento to the challenges of their youth, let them have that right.

Glock 22 c 6/5/2009 11:06:53 AM
I think main reason people wave the old flag as it reminds them of "being free" By that I mean not get murdered in your own house, Not get shot for a cell phone while mowing the lawn , Not being pulled over next to the rd by "SAPS" and killed like a dog. That is why people go back in history because the pre 1994 SA there was LAW and ORDER. And please I am not promoting apartheid just safety for everyone in SA not one Top anc bra's

Iceman 6/5/2009 11:07:23 AM
Thats the problem with SA whites in general. They want the fruits of the new SA while clinging on to symbols of the past. Why can't the writer show the same patriotism to the current flag. Ban the Flag.

Abe 6/5/2009 11:11:26 AM
BAN it from public display. We all know that people in general who still displays or place any worth in the old flag are racist and long to have the old South Africa back! And yes I am white.

Allan 6/5/2009 11:11:39 AM
Your column was bound to provoke divergent emotional displays of opinion. Thank you for having the strength to confront one of the 'holy cows' of South Africa today so directly. This is the approach that we need to construct a future for our nation. I become embarrassed when the old flag is displayed but totally respect your right to the opinions that you articulate so clearly.

wrathex 6/5/2009 11:12:08 AM
For every gesture of reconciliation and hand of friendship many extend to their fellow South Africans, even the rare waving of the 'apartheid' flag neutralises and it sets back the whole concept of looking to the future and not the past.

Don't ban the flag, but don't wave it in public where it hurts people.

Imelda 6/5/2009 11:16:34 AM
The flag is part of our history.
As much as you try - you can not erase history - be it good or bad. Let the flag be.

Dee 6/5/2009 11:17:04 AM
So...by banning (or burning) the old flag, it will ban and vanish the memories of apartheid...????? Get real, no matter what is done or not done those memories will remain in tact, no amount of banning (or burning) will rid them from the people who use them as a trump card!

Dewie 6/5/2009 11:17:13 AM
Im a white dude & i agree that you should make the flag 'vanish'- Its a new country with all its problems & all. The fact to keep the flag as a sense of patriotism is just stupid- Lets move on & forget about the idiotic mistakes our fathers' fathers made. Now we are blamed...

EUGENE 6/5/2009 11:17:54 AM
that old flag belongs with the old long grey socks . In the dump .The new flag reprsents our new flag , if u dont like it then immigrate . lol

Chris 6/5/2009 11:18:18 AM
I'm a white male from that era who fought against the then "terrorist" symbols, but today I accept and embrace the new dispensation. I was brought up to believe that the current national anthem was bad and about terrorism, etc. Today I am respectful towards it and I do not kick up a fuss whenever I see communist symbols being paraded in public. I still love the old flag (it was part of my life for over thirty years) and the flag itself never hurted anybody. It was people. I was at the game and personally I only saw one of the old flags, but there were over 50 000 people there! Why taint such a magnificent event by concentrating on a very small non-event?

envirokid 6/5/2009 11:19:08 AM
The old flag was fugly! New one ooks MUCH better. As a white kid growing up in the early 90s and attending an English school the old flag to me represented censorship and lack of freedom of expression and choice. I always thought the old government was a bunch of stiff, Calvanistic, strict, old-fashioned Ooms who decided what I could watch, read, listen to and forced me to go to the army. I don't haev any fond memories of that flag. But to be fair, us whites should respect what it symbolises to non-white South Africans and show some sensitiity and understanding.

Flag Man 6/5/2009 11:19:12 AM
Banning the flag also means that you will ban the Union Jack (there in the middle along with the Dutch one and the old "Vierkleur" as well. Now don't tell me you're also going to get selective on those three too. Then where do you stop? It's part of history however unpalatable. The hated Confederate and Union flags still fly in the USA, the land of the free and everybody lives with it. We could all learn a lesson from that and a good few other examples around the world.

Ima 6/5/2009 11:19:35 AM
I don't think the flag should be banned but I can only wonder what your response would be if someone at FNB stadium would start singing "kill the boer, kill the farmer". What about displaying those insensitive apartheid era posters supporting the Magoo bombings?

infoguru 6/5/2009 11:20:10 AM
Maybe people should go study what the old flag was and what its purpose was to start with. It never was a symbol of apartheid. It was a symbol of unity, as the 2 colonies and 2 republics joined in union in 1910 the flag was brought to life to symbolize that. Yes the later goverment instituted apartheid, but that had nothing to do with the flag. The flag was there to bond african, afrikaner and british in a single union. We have a new flag and should move forward, but the old flag is just that - old, banning it will only push those cultures underground.

Penny 6/5/2009 11:20:29 AM
@fern: I am a non-Afrikaaner white - as you call it! Plus my father was German! I say don't ban the old flag!

Hennie Gerber 6/5/2009 11:20:29 AM
All you people against the OLD flag probably were n`t even in the country those years.

Kevin 6/5/2009 11:20:36 AM
I thought Umkhonto we Sizwe was merged with the SADF to form the SANDF in 1994 (along with other military groups). And yet you still see people dressed in MK outfits running around the place, even at official events. That surely offends a heap of people too? But aren't we all allowed freedom of expression? If you want to wave an old SA flag in public that's your right to express yourself that way.

kagiso 6/5/2009 11:20:44 AM
It’s easy for a white person to say don’t ban the flag, it’s almost as easy as a German person who grew up in the 1930's saying don’t ban the Swastika because our men and women died for it. The fact of the matter is that the flag represents something that was wrong no matter how patriotic you are to it. It represents a government that oppressed the majority of this country.


Celia Neveling 6/5/2009 11:22:54 AM
Very controversial topic but you managed to write a sensible and fair column. Maybe someone can write a similar column on what it means to have someone singing "Bring me my machine gun" at a public gathering.

Clinton Nortje 6/5/2009 11:23:21 AM
The only reason not to ban the flag is because it would violate our freedom of expression, and a ban could potentially start us down the slippery slope of censorship.

I would therefor fight for people's right to fly the flag. That being said I think only a complete idiot would condone the flag being waved anywhere. I ask white people who defend this flag to think about what they felt like when JZ sang "Bring me my machine gun"

Is this the message we want to send in a country battling to unite?

VG 6/5/2009 11:23:52 AM
It's very disquieting that you can think back on your ahppy childhood memories and snot feel a twinge of guilt or revulsion for the horrors other people edured so you could live the life you lived. Why would you want any reminder? and the typical cry" oh, I didn't choose what regime I lived under..." spare us

Badger 6/5/2009 11:27:05 AM
I have to agree with you Col. This country does'nt have much in the History dept. I travel a lot (abroad) and when I visit the old cathedrals, the slave camps etc etc. It is such an interesting thing to see. Here in SA, the only history we have is hate for each other, such a pity.

JB 6/5/2009 11:30:03 AM
If every thing that causes division should be banned, then the ANC can start with BEE and changing of street and town names.

Nhlanhla 6/5/2009 11:30:46 AM
It is sad that Colleen pretends that she does not know what black people went through during apartheid South Africa and claims she cannot identify with our suffering when this issue was discussed at length on the forum she is talking about (M&G Forum). Colleen knows exactly what black people went through as this has been discussed in detail yet she has chosen to go ahead and write this piece showing a total disregard of how black readers of her column and the News24 website would react to this piece. Truth is she is insensitive and does not care so please do not pretend you don’t know how we feel.

AJ 6/5/2009 11:34:23 AM
@Thabo, you have with your statement in fact agreed with Colleen. Keep it away from national celebrations as it is NOT the South African flag, but at someone's home it is fine. Did you mean to agree?

Chris 6/5/2009 11:43:04 AM
I agree with you Colleen - we each have our own reminders of that which was - even if it only serves as a reminder of that which we never want to return to. I do not think it should be banned - if it is can we also call for the banning of certain songs / sayings / holidays - as if that will ever happen!

Aitsa 6/5/2009 11:46:19 AM
Booo! I went to the army under the same flag and loathe it, so I'm hardly neutral, but you want to insult and hurt the majority in your country because it reminds you of your overprivileged childhood? Lawdy.
Now, if you'd used freedom of speech as your argument, you would have come across as principled rather than ridiculously spoilt and self-centred.

Johann 6/5/2009 11:55:06 AM
And here our president keeps on singing old apartheid war songs but that is ok, if you ban the old flag let's ban the singing of songs like Umshini Wami. Sounds fair no?

Francois 6/5/2009 11:58:14 AM
Well thought out article. But, unfortunately, people will respond emotionally to it instead of looking logically at your argument. These days any sin can be forgiven, except independent thought and being politically incorrect.

Liz 6/5/2009 12:07:47 PM
You cannot erase history by banning a flag, personally I do not like the new flag, it looks like a beach towel, it is the colours not what it represents.

Rational New South African 6/5/2009 12:17:11 PM
The old flag belongs in a museum. It is history. It does not belong next to a rugbyfield. I grew up singing the "vlaglied", I am a proud Afrikaans person, but I do not think the old government is something to be proud of! Put the flag in a museum and let's all try to move forward together, not look backward and cling to symbols of a bad past!

Nandipha 6/5/2009 12:18:01 PM
I have said it before on these 24.com forumns and I'm gonna repeat it again.Until White South Africans as a collective acknowledge what happened in this country under apartheid as a gross human rights tragedy and take the time to meanigfully apologise as a collective for the pain and indignity inflicted on another so that they could live out socially and materially privileged existences, then this country and its future generations will struggle to move forward and claim it's place in the nations of the world. Until that happens, both South Africans will carry on with the hate and insensitivity. Think before you speak or you might just be perpetuating a legacy of hate for your children.

unglued 6/5/2009 12:18:42 PM
Well for all the self proclaimed Nazi know-alls...
When the swastika flag waving bunch in germany go on demonstration in germany , the police are present. Why? not to make sure that they don't kill any jews etc...NO its to protect their rights as an organisation, wether the organisation is right or wrong. Theauthorities respect the right of choice. i do not support nazism but pl do not tell me what clothes to wear, drugs to take or food to eat,these i'll make decision/choices myself. freedom of choice to all and all . Do not force your will on others!!!

nolo 6/5/2009 12:20:20 PM
coleen the thing is that all people in this country need to show that patriotism to the current country/government, the is no use of white people still holding on to the past flag as it is widely persieved as endorsement for the past regime. we us black and white to become one we must be behind one country, one flag to identify ourselves as south africans.

Juniork 6/5/2009 12:21:37 PM
You are very brave and open minded. I agree that we shouldn't disregard what everybody in the country feels and love and as such we should have meaningful dialog about how we deal with symbols of our past and all our issues in general. A dialog that will bring about satisfactory outcomes for all. Although banning the flag is extreme, my question is how then do you stop people from brandishing it at sport events. What we must also remember is that the current flag represent us all. I'm sure there are places like museums where the old flag can be on display to show our history, just as we do with many other symbols of our past.

Bonny 6/5/2009 12:23:42 PM
The banning of the old flag, or that matter, the removal of the springbok or the changing of street and town names is NOT going to change history. Some ugly things happened and we whiteys are constantly reminded of them. So let us all accept the white guilt and move forwards. So tired of all this nonsense already. I do agree that the waving of the old flag in public might not be the smartest move but banning it outright is only asking for the manufacture and sales of this "contraband" to soar..


Linda 6/5/2009 12:37:42 PM
This might be strange but everytime I see the sunset I think of our old flag - thats what it represented, the sunset in our beautiful country, why must everything be turned into a "I loved / I hated apartheid" discussion? Apartheid has been gone and dead for 17 years now.....

Afi 6/5/2009 12:38:40 PM
Want to ban the flag but it is ok to sing the machine gun sing?

Dr Steve Brule 6/5/2009 12:44:22 PM
@Nandipha, why should all white people apologize to black people, I had nothing to do with apartheid(as did most white people living in SA now) so I am NOT apologizing to you for anything, on the other hand the old flag waving is disgraceful and stupid

Lu 6/5/2009 12:53:19 PM
Ostrich
We all know why those people flew that flag at the game. It is about race and saying this is our game and no one else belongs here. To pretend otherwise is to act like ostritches and I doubt this very same columnist's response would be the same to a nazi flag or a poster of Hitler. Ooh we can't condone that maybe because those who suffered bare a resemblance in skin tone. If you want the old flag please keep it in your home with the other sick twisted things you embrace from our past. Maybe this column was written to just stir controversy but it was in bad taste. sis

Robert 6/5/2009 12:53:55 PM
To ban something to to exclude it totally would be bad. Whether you like it or not, isn't this really just freedom of expression? Like it or not people should be allowed to do so. Also to do away with something that has so much history? What would that serve? Slowly forgotten in history... most would surely fail to learn from it.

JR 6/5/2009 12:54:22 PM
It's 2009, the flag came down in 1994. I agree with the article and think it has a place, as does everything else that represents either good or evil deeds or regimes from the past, it's called history. It's sometimes painful, sometimes not, but it happened, and now it's over. Deal with it.

GeeWhizz 6/5/2009 1:11:30 PM
To those who want to keep the old flag legal: I'd like to understand how you are able to hold that position if you're also able to simultaneously believe that the Swastika (Nazi emblem, ani-Jew) should be banned. Differences, for sure, but many similarities too!!

Emmanuel 6/5/2009 1:34:25 PM
Is the flag simbolises a history then keep it in the museum for the next generation to see. Why display it now? Why bank on the past...bad past for that matter.

APWSA 6/5/2009 1:34:51 PM
Nandipha, Nhlanhla, Kagiso, Thabo etc...
Many "Black South Africans" respected and fought and died for this country under this flag, they may not have liked the flag but they surely believed in their cause, why they were fighting alongside the "white boys". As an ex soldier, when it comes to comradie, danger and death, you are united as one, no matter what the color of you skin or cultural beliefs. Have some respect for all who have gone befor you. Ex Brother in Arms.

JuneBug @Nandipha 6/5/2009 1:35:40 PM
Who must apologise? Name some names! I wont f*** apologise because I was not part of it. I am aware of what happened and I acknowledge that it did happen. What the hell do you want?

Wisdom 6/5/2009 1:46:42 PM
@Nandiphi: I will not apologise. Get over the apartheid thing it is long gone.

APWSA 6/5/2009 1:47:28 PM
To all the know it all's - the swastika was not invented by the nazis it's been around for centuries. Would you persecute the entire German Nation for the wrongdoings of the few? The chant was Hitler is the party (nazi party), the party is Germany, Germany is the party, the party is Hitler. If I could picture the lot of you, you most probably lock yourself's in that barred prison you call home, watching the crime on the telly, thingking "just at least leave me alone in my lounge with my telly" A really pitiful picture to say the least. No pride, no vision, no hope.

Carl Muller 6/5/2009 1:50:28 PM
I ancestors were Dutch, German, Portuguese, and some I do not want to mention. They were born under some flags and even fought against some of them.
I like all of them. In fact I would to have a small one of each in my study.
The Swastika is different. It represented people that killed millions of Christians, Gypsies, Gays and tried to annihilate the Jewish race (Jesus' brothers and sisters in the flesh). I am sure that Germans are proud of their flag, but not the Swastika.

4man 6/5/2009 2:04:28 PM
"Banning" is the first step taken by an ultimate totalitarian gvernment, freedom to do what you like ( as long as no one else is physically harmed), say what you like or think what you like is the essence of democracy. I dont like abortion for example, for myriad reasons, however I will defend to the death someones right to say they do believe in abortion. You wanna wave the flag, wave it, personally I just look the other way.

APWSA 6/5/2009 2:07:08 PM
Why not add the old SA flag to the the bottom right hand corner of the new SA flag?
To have a history no matter if it is good or bad memories, brings meaning now in the present. Without a history we are nothing.

Norman 6/5/2009 2:09:07 PM
Banning things is the first sep of a totalitarian state. Freedom to do what you like (as long as no one else is physically harmed, say what you like and think what you like, is the essence of democracy. I for example do not like abortion for myriad reasons, but I will defend to the death someone saying they do believe in abortions and once legisslated I have my right to get mysef elected nd fight it if I want to. You wanna wave the flag...wave it, personally I just look the other way.

Gerdus Heyns 6/5/2009 2:20:35 PM
People must just keep in mind that, that old flag was not approved off by all afrikaners. As it is still not today. This flag is also `n symbil of british rule, and that is what most afrikaners fought against. As `n young afrikaner today, I still do not like that flag, because of the bloody union jack in the middle. I think people should all go and have a good read into history, and see where the roots of apartheid lies. You might find that this very union jack that the boere (and me)dislike so much, has a lot more to be descraced about then a lot of us might think

Kage 6/5/2009 2:52:50 PM
@Nandipha - I had NOTHING to do with apartheid. It was atrocious that it was allowed to happen and I truly feel for the black people that suffered under it's rule. But I will NOT apologise and feel guilt for something that I had nothing to do with. YOU are the type of person that is keeping us from moving forward, expecting all the whites to apologise and beg for your forgiveness before you will agree to move on. Get over it and work WITH the people that are trying to make this country better instead of against them by sulking like a child. As for the flag, it should be burned. Publicly.

Justin 6/5/2009 3:14:06 PM
The old South African Flag is a symbol of an oppressive apartheid regime that caused huge suffering, exploitation and extreme racism. As a white person, I cannot understand how whites can be so insensitive and hurtful in their misguided and frankly despicable support of the old South African Flag. For me the fact that one is emotionally attached to the flag as it was the flag one grew up under is complete balderdash. How can you be emotionally attached to a flag that can justifiably be compared to the German Swastika. By emotionally attaching yourself to a symbol that represents such a racist and oppressive regime, it is almost like you are wishing for apartheid to come back. As a white guy, I wish to apologise to all other races for all the suffering and heartache we have caused. I may be white, but I like to think that I am a decent human being first.

Stuart 6/5/2009 3:14:16 PM
That flag should only be allowed in a museum and inside a persons own home. It should definitely be banned form all public occasions. And it should be the responsibility of the persons holding the event to make sure it is not there.

Musimane 6/5/2009 3:25:27 PM
Comparing the old flag to the Nazi Emblem is a bit much. The swastika represented the Nazi Party, not Germany, just like the ANC has it's own flag. My take, don't ban the old flag, but it should not be flown in public. It belongs in museums, not at rugby matches. I love the new flag and what it represents.

Insane 6/5/2009 3:30:57 PM
You must be joking. Trying to sugar-coat your own racism in such a blatant manner. No matter how you're trying to put it, your angle comes out of racism. You're implying that the German swastika must be respected in the same way as well. Get a life or get a new country to live in....

BAND 6/5/2009 3:34:06 PM
Shame on all of you. Colleen also has a good point.

HaatjyMy 6/5/2009 3:42:34 PM
Does anybody remember, that the Oranje, Blanje, Blou, freed our country from the british colonail rule, Afrikaners, Settlers, Blacks. It is not the flags fault that it got a bad rap from some bald headed politicains that instilled fear into blacks and whites. Remember whites were forced to go the army, corporal punishment, and the indoctrination of a militant life etc, apartheid wasn't a pick-nic for all whites but we still see it for what it is/was worth before apartheid!

White and Proud of it 6/5/2009 3:45:36 PM
Is this not supposed to be a free and fair South Africa? Does history now have to be wiped out just because we have a new government? Suddenly there is a reverse apartheid. This is particularly clear with BEE. How many qualified, white South African's have been turned down for jobs because they are white? How much better off is the common black person now? Those who voted for this government are still sitting waiting for their free houses, washing machines, electricity etc yet the government cats drive around in their fancy, uninsured cars. After all the promises from government to improve service delivery etc how much has improved? We are all fully aware of the chaos in this country just because fat cats are stealing and defrauding us in clear view of the public and nothing happens to them. They go through the farce of a trial just to be pardoned a few months later. Why does everything now have to be politically correct according to the black man? Are white people no longer allowed to treasure their history? Do we have to hide our pride for our country just because the black man doesn’t agree with it? Free and Fair South Africa my arse!

Ali 6/5/2009 3:49:10 PM
@ Anel: A non Arikaner white is a first language English speaking white person.

I dont like the old flag, as an english speaking white I was also discriminated against, not nearly as badly as people of colour but I am glad that we can reflect and learn from our mistakes

I 6/5/2009 3:50:39 PM
WTF people! Get over apartheid. Like someone mentioned - many people, about 35 years and younger, actually has NO idea what apartheid was (was too small to remember) and Mandela has been out of jail for 19 years. So please, focus on the present and don't dwell on the past, otherwise we will loose the future. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves and remember that most white people did not have anything to do with apartheid and many black people in anycase went to other countries and just came back when the storm was over. Grow up!

Morne 6/5/2009 3:57:20 PM
The flag must be displayed at Museums across the world.. remainder burned

Viva SA 6/5/2009 3:59:07 PM
How in god's name can the old SA flag be compared to the Nazi flag! When did the white man ever send black people to gas chambers or concentration camps. Uneducated comments from stupid people like this is what deepens the dislike between the races in our country. Catch a wake up people and get over apartheid. Let it die now and lets get on with fixing our country which is rapidly turning into Zimbabwe. And that is happening due to our greedy new government who are only out to get what they percieved the white man to have back in the day.

Ag poor old SA flag 6/5/2009 4:00:35 PM
Hey we all love out Jockey Y front flag - who cares if people are stil waving the old orange and white, move on people, we have much bigger things to worry about.

Tired 6/5/2009 4:06:55 PM
I think it is about time that all south africans start accepting their fellow countrymen for where they come from and whom they are, yes there were bad things that happened to black people in the apartheid era, just like there are bad things happening to white people under the leadership of the ANC. The countries economy has gone down the tubes, more and more white people are forced out of the country because they are unable to find a job in South Africa because of black empowerment, I have lost count of the number of my friends and the people I know have been shot, raped, hijacked and murdered. Civilians are living in Prisons whilst Thiefs, thugs and murderers are roaming the streets. Despite all of this you dont see me waving around the old south african flag, as it is not the national flag anymore. People need to realise that the fight between white and black should have stopped a long time ago in south africa, how about a fight against right from wrong. Stop the murders, corruption, rape, child abuse etc. Who cares if youre black or white, were all south african, and no matter how hard some try, that will never change.

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