'I am a patriot': News24: Columnists: ColleenFigg

BLACKsoWHAT! 3/13/2009 9:21:48 AM

When Jackson Browne wrote that song, he was probably living in his own country he say's "Because my country is all I know?". Anyway I personally have no problem with expats voting, its the insults and "turd missiles" thrown from afar that get to me.

BLACKsoWHAT! 3/13/2009 9:29:24 AM

Expats have the right to leave for whatever reason, bt i dont think they have the right bad mouth a country that is trying to build itself after the effect. They do have the right to vote in my opinion, thats how they can voice their concern by voting.

Jan van Riebeeck 3/13/2009 9:43:47 AM

I am proudly South African, no matter where I live and I will vote....

The Riddler 3/13/2009 9:44:05 AM

Great article and agree 100%. If only all our leaders based their decisions on one thing and one thing only and that is a "love for your country", I bet we will be living in EUTOPIA. Unfortunately the love for "oneself" seems to dominate most of the decisions.

KOBUS 3/13/2009 9:50:38 AM

"My field of interest lies chiefly in matters pertaining to the human condition, and in the ways people interact with each other." Is that not the definition of politics, Colleen?

Ima 3/13/2009 9:51:16 AM

I dont have a problem with people who are abroad on a temporary basis to vote but, if they have settled and have no intention of coming back, why should they be allowed to decide the fate of those who have to live here. Their vote to them is completely inconsequential but it matters to us here. Love for country has nothing to do with it.

Lionel 3/13/2009 9:52:06 AM

I have immediate family members who suffered badly for the first few years with emigration blues. Now they have settled and will not put a foot back in this country, unless it is for a family bereavement. The ANC where against expats voting due to the number of whites abroad and then there are some of those whites here who felt that they should not be allowed to vote. Expats did not leave this country because they wanted to, they where forced, to just like many Blacks where under apartheid.

LoudP 3/13/2009 9:52:08 AM

It's not the compatriots of Saffers abroad that don't want them to vote, it was the SA government who said they're not allowed to vote.

AH 3/13/2009 9:52:23 AM

I agree. It is completely beoyond me that anyone can even try prevent South Africans from voting. I spent 3 years overseas, I had every intention of returning and therefore had a strong interest in how the country is governed. I returned with foreign currency, relevant global experience and an appreciation and greater understanding of other cultures. Something many people here need. Maybe it should be mandatory to spend some time overseas.

colin 3/13/2009 9:52:27 AM

Colleen I do agree with you that all South Africans should be given the right to vote but what I do find morally reprehensible is that most of these South Africans are skilled people who can contribute positively to the success of this country but opt not to do so and many of then even go and claim a second citizenship from the land of there forefathers - many of these skilled people use the excuse that AA and EE excludes them from the employment market but I believe this is not true as the skill shortage in our country does not allow for this - I have done a search on one of the leading employment websites for the position as an accountant and what I have found is that only 20 out of the advertised 317 positions were exclusively for AA/EE candidates which represents a small percentage of 6 percent which is insignificant ? although our Construction give us rights we should understand as true South Africans we also do have the responsibility to act in the best interest of our country and it is not in the best interest of RSA to loses skilled people at the rate we have the last few years.

AH 3/13/2009 9:54:24 AM

and in addition, who is in a position to judge why someone left the country. In a globalised environment, many people get transferred overseas for periods of time, people want to travel and broaden their horizons before settling down at home. There are so many reasons and South Africa as a country BENEFITS from its citizens spending time overseas. This should be ENCOURAGED!!!

Gerry 3/13/2009 9:55:20 AM

How can you responsibly differentiate between politics and what you call the human condition and interaction? Politics is about human interaction and the role power plays in these whether it is on the level of e.g. the family or government. To exclude politics around government and the upcoming election from your view of the human condition and interactions between people truly displays ignorance and an impoverished view.

as i see it 3/13/2009 9:57:05 AM

The very same people who are shouting the odds about expat's being allowed to vote are the people who forced born and bred South African's to leave the country in the first place.

VG 3/13/2009 10:06:43 AM

1) the fight against Apartheid wa about alot more than the right to vote - why would you diminsh it by reducing its scope to this one issue? 2)why should you be able to affect the lives of Saffers living in SA when you yourself are not? vote when you get back if its that important to you -they're held every 5 years y'know, not every century.

Rodders 3/13/2009 10:10:56 AM

...I wish I'd thought of that when arguing earlier with people about the right to vote - the idea that half the problems in SA come originally from not allowing some people to vote and then these same people are now campigning to do the same thing is as powerful as it is reprehensible!!! Great article!!!

Old, female, paleface 3/13/2009 10:13:45 AM

I am a political fanatic and have been since 1940's.Colonialism, Nationalism and now Democracy is my food as a Liberal. The majority of 'families' that left was mainly due to AA (no jobs)and Crime. They are fierce patriots who still have family and parents living here. If conditions improve; they will return and have said so on blogs. They have a RIGHT to vote for this country of their birth. Unless we face a dictatorship post elections?

wr 3/13/2009 10:19:57 AM

The answer is simple - just watch how the ANC operates - they are power hungry. They want absolute power which corrupts absolutely. They are afraid they will loose there majority because the expats will definately not vote for them. Why are they changing (or try to change)the borders of some provinces? - to make sure they can rule. There is however a big surprise waiting for them at the comming election.

johnson 3/13/2009 10:20:35 AM

Let me tell you from my own family experience, my family who intend staying in the UK have NO intention of voting - they are settled elsewhere and have interest in matters SA. However, those who are coming back, having been forced out of SA after varsity because of the lack of jobs, WILL vote. It is as simple as that.

k2azma 3/13/2009 10:24:30 AM

They were forced by whom exactly ? You have alot of nerve comparing ppl who left willingly to those who were exiled....No one forced or made living in south africa unbearable they made that choice, and most of those white expats as you call them left because the thought of living in a country which had a black government was unbearable they didnt want to vote before why now ? is it cos white south africa thinks its getting back its power ? why the surge in pride

Colleen Figg 3/13/2009 10:27:18 AM

Please read the entire article before going off half cocked dear VJ: "n view of the fact that the bitter history of our country and the pain that people suffered was caused by one group of people telling another group of people that they were not allowed to vote (amongst other things) ........."

Pop Idol 3/13/2009 10:27:49 AM

Why are permanent residents of lets say NZ or AUS allowed to vote just because they happened to be registered in RSA anyway? These people have left the country and if you wanna vote, you need to prove that you overseas on a work visa and WILL be returning..Secondly, the day I fly out of this land,I doubt Id suffer from homesickness and all those stuff you mentioned.As a Coloured person,and someone of Khoisan descent,this hasnt been our home for over 300 years.

Nigel 3/13/2009 10:30:05 AM

To me there is a moral and practical argument here. The moral argument should differentiate between those that are still involved in the country i.e. have family, property, businesses here, or are away temporarily, and those that have disconnected themselves from SA & plan never to return. In practice..someone who doesnt care about SA, or plans never to return..will probably not vote anyway, so in practice those with a vested interest will vote & those without will not. Simple really!

flim 3/13/2009 10:31:02 AM

But the reality is that many Saffas overseas never let up bad-mouthing the country of their birth, so it's a bit rich then claiming your vote on the grounds of love for your country. I'm a foreigner living in SA and I'm appalled by the way people here talk about their own country. When I visit ?home? pretty much every Saffa I meet there expresses amusement that I should choose to live in the sh1thole they all say they left before telling me at length how awful it is. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to vote, but I do think there should be a restriction on it ? for example, anyone who's lived somewhere for more than five years can reasonably be said to have settled there, with little or no intention of returning. There's so much more to citizenship than just voting.

Nanker Phelge 3/13/2009 10:32:52 AM

If you left permanently, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. If temporarily, then you should be. If people who emigrated are still legally allowed, I really do believe that that loop hole should be legally plugged. Surely it is nonsense to think you can vote in a country you don't plan on ever living in again?

Daniel Plainview 3/13/2009 10:40:05 AM

Im only staying here now because of the recession. Once the recovery occurs I will be outta here on the first plane. Im specialising even further while I wait. And Colin, if its not AA/EE, then why do all the agencies tell me the same stupid things that Im not suitable for the job when I actually am perfectly quailified for it.(I have a post-graduate) I do have a job, a job a matricalant can do, it was all what I could get for now. My emigration visa is already being processed.

vincent 3/13/2009 10:41:19 AM

1)DA supported the floor crossing bill...they are now against it(originally ANC was against) 2)Now DA again supports expats to vote...wait until a MILLION AFRICANS VOTE FROM MAPUTO,HARARE,LUSAKA,NIGERIA etc...it will be the end of expats vote...mark my words!

Thembalabantubonke 3/13/2009 10:42:31 AM

My concern is that there are many different types of expats and my views might not relate to all. there are those expats who have not been in the country in the past 5 years and have no plans to be in the country for the next 5 years. The idea of democracy is to have a voice/say in how the country is run for your benefit. If you are located overseas and will not be affected by your choice, you will not live with your choice and a mistake by you will not matter

Ex-S.African 3/13/2009 10:44:25 AM

You Saffers whinge over everything, even when you emigrate you never satisfied. Its whinge,whinge, whinge. For this reason I try to avoid Saffers at wherever possible. It makes no difference who you vote for, your soceity will always be an inept one

Andy 3/13/2009 10:51:52 AM

Patriotism comes with committment , responsiliby and love for ones country. Then patriots, who subcribe to the above should vote. The question is how do we know that subcsribe....you critisize u country and suggest solutions, pay tax, you actually come to you country at least 1once in two years...u come to weddings funerals etc. You still have SouthAfrican citizen ship only...

Juliet 3/13/2009 10:53:38 AM

Surely if South Africans living abroad were not allowed to vote then foreigners living in South Africa should be? They chose to live here?

Temp-expat 3/13/2009 10:56:17 AM

My whole family still live in SA, but I was forced to find work internationally.I only see my family once in 3 months.We hear yesterday,"EXPATS MAY VOTE". We go to the IEC website to register, only to read registration has closed. So how come expats are allowed to vote, but cannot because we are not registered. People on holiday abroad, or a business man out of the country for a week at a time is not an Expat. IT IS A FARCE

Vision 3/13/2009 11:22:25 AM

If someone has decide to live in a different country then they should not be allowed to vote! That's there new home, vote for your new country... If they overseas training, up killing or for whatever reason but are planning on coming back then they should be allowed to vote because they have a vested interest in this country succeeding! Some of my best mates live in Oz, England and Germany and never plan to come back to SA, why should they have the right to vote and ultimately an impact on my future!!

Sinudeity@Gmail.com 3/13/2009 11:22:25 AM

Hey, if criminals can vote, so can expats.

Funnybones 3/13/2009 11:24:25 AM

What about those who go to great lengths to discredit the image of these country. Those that have started social networking sites aimed completely at telling people about how horrible this country is? yes we have crime, corruption, etc..but the is still good and a lot of potential too. So we need people to act as ambassadors otherwise they must just keep out of our matters.

Ghwappie 3/13/2009 11:25:45 AM

... is the fact that it was the IEC that opposed the application to the ConCourt. Isn't their mandat to make it possible for as many people as possible to vote? Then why in heavens name did they go to great lengths NOT to make it happen? When the first voices were raised, their attitude should have been "OK, let's look at ways to do this", but instead... This matter should NEVER have gone to court in the first place.

mkhulu 3/13/2009 11:28:44 AM

Its amazing how people (mostly whites including you) choose to misdirect this subject. People, we (mostly blacks) hate to allow those people who have permanently left the country but still keep SA citezenship to vote and dectate to us who should lead us from their own new countries. Do not deliberately misguide this subject. Any other person outside the country for a while and plans to come back should vote wherever he/she is that is for-sure.

chantal 3/13/2009 11:29:22 AM

It is not only your right to vote, it is your duty.

terence 3/13/2009 11:34:30 AM

even if dont plan on going back to south africa i have family there hence they need my vote as every vote counts they say. Colin i always see you going on about this skills things Why? are you not aware that most the expats that have left have left because they can't get a job in their own country due to BEE and AA??? do you expect them to just stay here and starve to death are you MAD? a man has to do what a man has to do if this means he must move on to eat and survive then he must do so.

Jacobus 3/13/2009 11:35:30 AM

Even people that has also turned their backs on the laws and rules of this Great Country are allowed to vote. Yes I amtalking about prisoners...

WH 3/13/2009 11:37:24 AM

Nice article Colleen! I have been reading the various blogs/comments on news websites, what amazes me is the blatant generalisations. Not all expats have left the country permanently. Not all expats are white. In our case, we were transferred overseas by my husband's company for a limited duration, part of our salary is still paid in SA, we still own land there, we plan to return there, we are proudly South African and say so! We miss home! Stop with the generalisations ...

Ghwappie 3/13/2009 11:37:25 AM

Sorry dude, your argument smacks of ignorance. I was retrenched to make way for an AA candidate. Highly skilled, but I was too pale and too male to find any other job in SA. I was forced to look outside the borders of SA to earn a living for me and my family. Thanks to a lot of Euro's, I was able to return to SA to start my own business where I now provide employment for over twenty people. Our income is still mainly Euro's and US dollars, all of which come into the country, so this story has a happy ending. Many thousands of other expats are also there out of necessity (survival) because the current policies in SA make it impossible for them to find gainful employment. And believe me, it is no joke to sit thousands of kms from your country and loved ones for an extended period. So rather take your hat off to those that do it - the bulk of their income is repatriated to SA (where it is taxed), to help support all those who find themselves qualified to critisize - including you.

AvgJoe 3/13/2009 11:38:09 AM

To all those who dislike the expat "turds thrown from afar": you should then keep your mouths off the "evil West" and America.

Trevor 3/13/2009 11:38:14 AM

If you have left S.A.like my children because of crime, armed robberies,breakins to your home when you are there,being threatened with knives and guns,having your cars stolen and broken into,been threatened with death by a crooked policeman while he was robbing the company you worked for,you have a right to vote in order to change things.Everything mentioned above has happened to our family.

Zacky 3/13/2009 11:39:19 AM

Many people have left the country thru lack of job oportunities / discrimantion e.g affirmative action and of course the high crime rate. The Govt has a lot do do with all those negative reasons as to why people leave the country. Many will return if the conditions will improve - that is why they need to vote for the govt that will give them that or at least have the vision and conviction to achieve that. Thanks

Mazza 3/13/2009 11:39:35 AM

I'm an expact in the UK, I've been here for 6 years, but our plan is to ultimately move back to South Africa when we're ready to start a family and settle down. The right to vote in this election means a lot to me. My whole family still lives in SA. My vote can help shape a better live for them and for myself in the long run. My passport stays green!

Anonymouse 3/13/2009 11:42:55 AM

Voting should be linked to tax-paying. in what other situation can you get people who are not "shareholders" telling the board of a company what to do? they government spends taxpayers hard earned money.. so they solely should have to right to say how it should be used...

maverick 3/13/2009 11:43:29 AM

not sure where you get your stats but i know 2 chemical engineers who can't get a job in this country and they have both had to settle for jobs that have nothing to do with their skills hence they are both on their way to New zealand in 6 months time, then i know a project manager who can't get a job luckily he has accepted a position in Canada. things are tough for the few whities out there colin and instead of your anc balancing things out in this country you are making things worse.

Anonymous 3/13/2009 11:44:49 AM

I believe that those expats who want to vote must come back and vote! If they have followed the right procedure and they have registered then they have the right to vote. Many many foreigners living in South Africa returned to their own country just to vote so these expats should do the same. Action speaks louder than a few exchange of words, so I urge all the expats to come back and vote and make other people see that you still care.

Confused 3/13/2009 11:50:55 AM

Just an aside - I have the VEC 10 form but do not know who to send it to. The form does not make this clear. Can anyone help please?

in the cold north 3/13/2009 11:51:06 AM

If you think what happens in SA doesn't affect me then you are a fool. Other nations are proud of their citizens who go abroad and do well for themselves. It is when my people are so self-righteous, so ignorantly judgemental and so cruel to their own that I cringe and wonder if I really am one of them. The nation fears the return of Apartheid, yet they do not stop its policies being copied like this.

TheExpat 3/13/2009 11:55:42 AM

Most of the commentators above should just get on with it. Hopefully YOU are registered! Those like me who are registered ARE going to vote whatever you think and whether you like it or not... The constitution we fought for allows us that RIGHT. Or would you like to have the IEC add a clause on the ballot paper for us to say why we're not living in SA? Not all of us 'bad-mouth' or throw 'turd-missiles' at OUR country. Come the next election we'll even cast a local govt. ballot! Cheers.

Ivan 3/13/2009 11:56:40 AM

Now we just need to ensure that all the expats, that are able to vote, use the opportunity. Winning that battle in the ConCourt, is one thing, getting the expats to get off their butts and use the opportunity is another thing. Spread the word guys, we need as many expats to vote, now more than ever. There is a new struggle at hand. The struggle for good, decent, moral leadership and governance, with people who can govern and deliver properly, not like it's been for the past 14 years

Marras 3/13/2009 12:01:14 PM

"My field of interest lies chiefly in matters pertaining to the human condition, and in the ways people interact with each other. " This could also the biological sense. Stating the direct meaning might have gotten her moderated for sensitive readers. Just a theory BTW.

gabrielle johannes 3/13/2009 12:02:48 PM

i am living in london and i have never bad mouthed south afraica, instead i have marketed my country as a wonderful place not only to go on holiday to, but also a wonderful place to live.... leaving does not mean you hate the country...it means you curious about whats going on outside your country as well, i was always patriotic, and always loved my country, but leaving as made me even more appreciative of the country of my birth....we do not bad mouth..we stand up for our country!!!!!

niels 3/13/2009 12:03:02 PM

Look, you know, somebody has offered me good arguments for letting expats on contract voting... but all my mates who have run away to NZ? Screw them. They have no right to vote and they have no right to wear replica Springbok jerseys when watching international rugby. You made your bed, you sleep in it. You can't be a patriot when you have chosen to runaway.

ICV 3/13/2009 12:05:35 PM

I agree with you, people who left should still contribute to building the country and it is still possible by actively promoting our country wherever we choose to go. I'm doing my stint in the UK and you have no idea how irritating it is to hear other Saffas badmouthing our country. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

TB 3/13/2009 12:19:25 PM

Is the issue. Keep the sentiment out of it. If you are a current SA citizen, you are - no dispute here and thus allowed to vote no matter you are residing on the Moon or Mars or whether you intend coming back or not.

Jezza 3/13/2009 12:26:25 PM

Expats should sod off! Oh wait, they did.

Pastel 3/13/2009 12:49:20 PM

This issue should not even be debated, or worse still taken to court. Every South African has a right to vote - irrespective of their domicile. The fact that expats still show an interest in their birth country, is good enough for me.

Vogon 3/13/2009 12:52:15 PM

Jackson Browne did not write the song 'I am a Patriot.' It was written by Little Steven (Steve van Zandt)- Bruce Springsteen's guitarist since 1975 and also the guy behind the song 'Sun City' and Artists Against Apartheid. Jackson Browne just did a very relevant cover of the song.

Ghwappie 3/13/2009 1:01:37 PM

Please don't make this a white/black thing, expats have no colour, neither do those who critisize without knowing the facts. It is true that there are those expats who badmouth the country, but they are a VERY small minority who are trying to justify to themselves exactly why they left, and they probably won't vote either. You know the saying "empty tin cans make the biggest noise"? The rest (majority) love this country very much and want to contribute to it by voting.

Pete 3/13/2009 1:04:04 PM

Not all people who left the country did so out of choice. Some were forced to work overseas to provide for their families because of AA. Others were innocent victims of crimes, for example traumatized rape victims and couldn't bear it to stay here any longer. Can you blame them? In '94 everyone could vote. So what has changed?

Aiden Stoop 3/13/2009 1:11:06 PM

Colleen you raise a good point....these people back home who have an opinion that we abroad should not vote is exactly the same as when the apartheid bunch excluded the masses from voting....who the hell are these negative twats sitting back home to tell you and me we are not allowed to vote. Are they above the Constitution? Didn't think so!

Nigel 3/13/2009 1:18:39 PM

What puzzels me is the amount of expats that spend hours on SA expat froums running down the country, with the express intention of never returning. Sure most still love SA and some want to return, but I think those that do the serious bad mouthing are trying to justify thier move & relieve their bitterness for having left. Well this helps, good move, dont feel bitter..now leave SA alone & get on with your new life...

Jon 3/13/2009 1:19:18 PM

South Africans have the right to vote no matter where they are. The majority of them have only left SA because they have been forced to by crime, injustice, etc. Their legitimate votes potentially have the power (along with those of us still here) to put into power a government that really cares about SA & is not just lining their own pockets. Should SA become a safe, fair, just country, I would be willing to bet my bottom dollar that these foreign based Saffers would return to their real home.

Jon 3/13/2009 1:25:25 PM

What utter BS! "You can't be a patriot if you've left the country!" So, would you say the same thing about the ANC freedom fighters who were not resident in SA while fighting the apartheid government. I guess not! What is the difference between them & the current Saffers overseas? They have also been driven to leave the country by a corrupt, immoral & self serving government? They have every right to vote for change, just as the "freedom fighters" based overseas did in '94! What's the difference?

unpatriot 3/13/2009 1:25:59 PM

here and bad mouth the place all the time, its going down the tubes just like the rest of africa. I dont have to go overseas to bad mouth it. Sad thing tho its not the country its the ruling party causing the demise

Chris 3/13/2009 1:33:16 PM

Jezza, I am considered an expat. I work 10 months of the year in places that no one would want to stay, all the shit holes in the world doing humanitarian work that you can?t do. I was also not allowed to vote because I was not back in the RSA although registered. Now I can to keep arse holes like you out of government that means nothing to society so don?t tell me to sod off. You are just another uninformed little person living only for yourself, a little pathetic person. CHRIS

VG 3/13/2009 1:34:42 PM

Sorry, you're right. I missed that part. Apologies

MJS 3/13/2009 2:02:44 PM

If hardened criminals can vote and become president, then obviously the expats should be able to vote as well.

flim 3/13/2009 2:27:00 PM

It's interesting that you only seem to think the past 14 years have had shit government. Shit government goes back a helluva long way in SA and is responsible for many of the problems we face today. People are very emotive in their responses to being able to vote while overseas but it's only fair to point out that many of those who have left in the past 14 years had ample opportunity to do so long before then and didn't. Maybe the problem is that there are degrees of shitness that people are prepared to take ? or it's okay as long as it's not really affecting you? It's interesting to note that when people here write about missing home, it's not long before they're referring to the lack of a pool in their lives, or not being able to afford domestic workers overseas...I think that a lot of people simply miss the way things were, without really realising what that means. I'm not saying there aren't problems here, what I am saying is I think it's time for Saffas to get to grips with acting as one nation ? staying here to help build the change you want to see would help. Starting Facebook groups to run this country down doesn't ? and for those who say it's a minority of Saffas, my experience tells me otherwise. Whenever I'm back in Ireland, as soon as I meet Saffas and they find out that I choose to live here, they're queuing up to tell me how crazy I am and what a dump SA is. I have plenty of complaints about my home country, but I NEVER run it down to my friends here, I'm proud of it, warts and all. Even though I can't vote because I'm an ex-pat. And I can't vote here either ? I wonder how many Saffas would be happy to let foreigners here vote?

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