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Colleen Figg

'What is murder?'

2009-05-22 10:00

The news on Tuesday of the father who drove over and killed his two children has unleashed a storm of very acrimonious debate all over the internet.

One forum member on the M&G Forum kicked off a thread on the subject by stating that if the article had reported the matter correctly, the father should be "sent away for life" as "clearly, they [the children] were not wearing seatbelts". (A sentiment I strongly disagree with, by the way. I really feel for this father and for the family).

This unleashed a volley of replies, pro and con, but a point raised by many was how a common oversight (the father not strapping the children in) becomes a crime when tragedy occurs.

Yet this same thing happens in every area in this country, judging by how many people complained of seeing parents with toddlers standing in the front seats, in the back seats of in between the seats. (A sight common to all of us, I think).

We were brought up wearing seatbelts before a law was promulgated to the effect that anyone in a car must wear a seatbelt, and for us it is second nature. Not so for many others.

My question is: is it criminal for a parent to disregard a "soft" law like the seatbelt law which is rarely enforced and if a man should be sent to jail for life as a result of a fatal accident arising from his children not being strapped in, then what should the penalty be for these parents who let their children leap, stand and clamber all over the car while they are driving?

Is the sight of a baby standing in the front seat something we should mutter about while we sit in traffic, or is it something we should report by way of taking photographs, noting down the registration number and reporting the parent/s to the police for immediate arrest and conviction?

Will the law ever allow a parent to be strongly convicted for a misdemeanour now that could become a crime later?

Meaning, if no accident ever occurs, all the parent will be guilty of is extremely bad judgement but if the child is injured or dies in an accident they'll become guilty of manslaughter or murder, depending on the charge.

Should we as a society start coming down hard on acts of casual negligence such as children not being strapped in?

Furthermore, if we go as far as to really push for strong enforcement on the seatbelt question, can we then hold government responsible for potholes that result in the death of people in cars, too?

Can liquor store holders be prosecuted for creating alcoholics? Will parents be called to account if they do not give their children a properly rounded education and do not see that their emotional IQ is well enough equipped to make intelligent fulfilling life decisions instead of self destructive ones?

What, after all, is murder?

Send your comments to Colleen.

Disclaimer: News24 encourages freedom of speech and the expression of diverse views. The views of columnists published on News24 are therefore their own and do not necessarily represent the views of News24.

- News24


Anon 5/22/2009 10:17:51 AM
I have previously worked in the Police Service and from that and pesonal experience I have also witnessed horror stories of people burning to death and drowning in cars because they could not free them from their seatbelts in time. Does that mean the family of these people can now hold government accountable for their deaths because the Law requires you to wear safety belts?

chops 5/22/2009 10:23:45 AM
I don't agree with the liquor store analogy as people can decide for themselves. But yeah what about when people get killed and it's because someone else made a bad decision, like to not repair a pothole. I think the law should punish those who knowingly do something that could quite likely result in the deathy or injury of someone else. Simple as that.

sphumelele 5/22/2009 10:27:48 AM
how can you call it a soft law to wear a seatbelt. ask that father if he thinks its a soft law. i bet he's gonna be a seatbelt ambasador from now on. he should go to jail for carelessness and he should take you with him.

T 5/22/2009 10:28:33 AM
Don't condemn this father - if you wish, condemn the mother who left her baby in a car 2am in the morning whilst in a pub. He did not mean harm to his children - it was an accident, and could happen to any of us. No parent wants this to happen. He and his wife are in a hell of their own - don't add to it. Pray for them, and above all, show compassion. They have lost their precious children. It could happen to any of us.

Doc 5/22/2009 10:29:30 AM
If the father is accused of manslaughter or murder because his children did not wear seatbelts, then every single one of us (and I mean every single one of us with a drivers licence) should be found guilty of attempted murder as of immediately for speeding, shooting red/orange traffic lights, not stoping at a stop street, turning without indicating, making illegal U-turns, not yielding to the right on traffic circles, overtaking over solid white lines, changing lanes over solid white lines....

mok 5/22/2009 10:31:56 AM
yea, we are really majoring on the minor issues. losing a child is way more punishment than any further conviction can possibly hand out - what's the chance of the parent making the mistake again? let's rather focus our energies on convicting real criminals.

Ali 5/22/2009 10:33:06 AM
It is the law that your kids must be strapped in,just because the police dont have the capacity to enforce it doesnt make it lawful, he cause the death of those two kids even though it was unintentional, its manslaughter

Paul 5/22/2009 10:35:06 AM
Laws and rules take place only when something goes wrong. Having children running amok in a car is fine, until somebody gets hurt. Then it's a problem and draconian laws are put in place. Always happens. While it works, people look the other way. Why is this a bigger issue than all the people murdered every day in muggings though? Hasn't the father suffered enough already?

WB 5/22/2009 10:35:22 AM
The father of the 2 children will forever blame himself for the tragedy. That punishment is enough.

Roms 5/22/2009 10:36:09 AM
I hate seeing kids standing or sitting in the front seat, not strapped in!!! I think we should report it! I do not think that this dad should be prosecuted, I feel for him. But the women that left her baby in the car outside a pub should go straight to jail!!!! (yesterday's story on news24)

Michael 5/22/2009 10:39:09 AM
They should face the same charge as a parent who leaves a child in a car while they are away from it as both could result in death. Breaking safety laws should have a punishment, but not a life sentence. Its like playing a game of chance with your childs life!

Frank 5/22/2009 10:39:18 AM
We can already hold the government responsible for any damage resulting from a pothole. Usually it's a civil action (money) rather than criminal (jail time) but I do get your point. As for murder this will never succeed, the first thing to consider is if there was intend to harm, which was clearly not the case. Technically speaking he can probably be charged with neglegent death (what ever it's called in SA). Again innapropriate but still technically correct.

watcrap 5/22/2009 10:41:36 AM
casual negligence in this case have resulting in 2 deaths, so it shouldn't be so casual.This is a ridiculous article Figg. I realy feel for this family too, but goodness what terrible article.

Birdman 5/22/2009 10:42:23 AM
Intent plays a role but the "soft" laws and common sense rules just make life generally safer. A tragedey occurred, that is punishment enough. Small mistakes can become huge issues, the small actions should not be judged by the size of the consequences.

Liz 5/22/2009 10:43:32 AM
It is definitely not MURDER. Murder is when you PURPOSELY take someone?s life. You cannot always keep your children safe. Accidents happen. The grief of losing a child is more than enough punishment. Look at those 4 girls that died. Who should be punished there? The guy that made the U-turn died as well. We can't always look for someone to blame. Terrible things happen in a blink of a moment. We as the surviving ones are the ones that have to cope with the loss. All we can do is pray. Pray for forgiveness and PRAY that the stone throwers will never have to endure something like this. This was just a terrible accident. And no parent should ever have to go to jail for something like that.

Herm 5/22/2009 10:44:08 AM
Although I do agree that Children should always be strapped in, and that it annoys me when I see a kid standing in a car. I also know that when you are on a farm with friends and family there is almost no one that will behave the same way in regards to vehicle safety than they would in the City. The point being that this could have happened to anyone and my thought?s and prayers are with the family.

Carol 5/22/2009 10:47:57 AM
I have got 4 children who know that before the car is even started they must put their seatbelts on and the 2 smaller ones are strapped into their car seats. Why must everybody feel sorry for these parents who lose their children because of their own stupidity and neglect. The one child was one or two and SHOULD have been in a car seat. If they don't want their children wearing seatbelts then why was the childlock not put on. Come on.......if you love your children so much take responsibility

Sarah 5/22/2009 10:48:09 AM
I am always startled, by the response you get, when you point out to a mother or father, that their child standing on the front seats, or between the seats, is an accident waiting to happen. Even the most mild "please lady, strap your child in for their own safety" is usually responded to, with foul language, sign language, and general outrage, that a stranger should be telling them what to do. Nought so funny as folk.

The Truth 5/22/2009 10:54:10 AM
then that person should feel the full weight of the law prescribed. At the same time however,I believe the father of these two kids will have to live with the guilt,together with the neverending knowing of how easily it could have been prevented (Where was the central or childproof locking in the vehicle?),for the rest of his life.Isn't that punishment enough in this case? Criminals who commit actual murder with intent in this country get away with having done far worse most of the time. t

george 5/22/2009 10:55:30 AM
people are stupid. There is no difference between a taxi driver driving through a red light knocking over someone and killing them vs this traggic incident where his kids were killed.Both poor judgement and both resulted in death. There is no grey area here.Law was broken, as a result of poor judgement, people died. Who is responsible -the father and the taxi driver.BOTH have committed involuntary (culpable or whatever the term is) murder, as someone died from their actions.

sk 5/22/2009 10:57:07 AM
Do u honestly think you can keep a child in his seatbelts for an entire journey, even if it is a short one like going to school, etc?

Peter 5/22/2009 10:57:17 AM
First, I gather the father was driving on his farm. You don't even have to have a driver's license to drive (at any age) on your own property. Law is intended to be specific in every aspect and therefore I doubt if it can be applied here. Second, to lose both your children at toddler age like this is beyond bearable. I can't begin to imagine the trauma both of them are going through and will carry for the rest of their lives. It's not about after-the-fact legalities here.

AJ 5/22/2009 10:57:22 AM
If we dont want to further punish people, who are already suffering teh worst punishment possible then the only other avenue is to be very strict in policing them when their children are alive. We see parents with unsecured children in cars all the time - NOTHING is done. Make them pay with MONEY (lots of it) rather than their kids health or lives.

Lucy 5/22/2009 10:57:54 AM
This father most likely drove around the farm a million times with the kids seated next to him without a seatbelt. Sending this man to jail will not bring any justice to this fatal accident.We are all guilty of innocent acts like these which at the time seemed like nothing and sometimes ends up to be serious.The fact that the kids died is punsihment enough the father and mum will have a difficult enuf time just sleeping under the same roof.Leave them to mourn in peace.

Dude 5/22/2009 10:59:00 AM
To Colleen: I am sorry to say this but you must understand that the kids are kids and can't decide themselves that it is the right thing to put on the seat belt. The father is to blame for what happened. Sending him to jail will have no purpose because no one follows the rules on the road. I am sure you are also one of those people juging by you attitude. There are others like myself who are forced to break road rules just to not have an accident with people like you. We go to war on the road.

Not a crime 5/22/2009 10:59:18 AM
People who are saying that this father should be punished by charging him with manslaughter, is really cruel. An accident is just that - an accident. It was just the wrong place and the wrong time. And who are we to pass judgement? Don't you think losing both his children is punishment enough? Having to live with the fact that he was responsible for their deaths, is bad enough?We let criminals who do harm with intent run free and rule our country, but we want to punish this man?Get real

marc 5/22/2009 11:02:35 AM
The accident did not happen on a public road. Seatbelt laws do not apply. Give the guy a break, he lost both his sons.

Undertaker 5/22/2009 11:06:50 AM
He should go straight to jail!

StevenD 5/22/2009 11:07:50 AM
My child was miss-diagnosed by a doctor and it almost cost her life. Can I hold the doctor accountable for attempted man slaughter. She also refused to do blood tests or refer me to a pediatrician. Oh yes and we still had to pay.

chez 5/22/2009 11:08:47 AM
Its a bit silly to compare a toddlers safety to an adults decision to drink to much booze don't you think? When we have children it is our responsibilty to ensure their safety; it really is that simple. That man didn't murder his kids but he should be charged with cuplable homicide or whatever. After all, he is responsible for their death - that is a very sad fact. i too, feel sorry for the family but not as much as i do for the 2 dead children!!

VG 5/22/2009 11:09:58 AM
..so it's not murder.I find it bizarre how many people condemn the father. We don't know how many time he drive around with his kids -strapped in. What if this was the ONE time it happened? does this one lapse of judgement erase the thousands of times this man may have been a model dad? yes, this tragedy was preventable, but I think those people are in their own private hell - especially him - that no jail cell (even a SAfrican one) could compete with

Pebbles 5/22/2009 11:11:19 AM
Very well put Colleen. The sight of people not wearing seatbelts and not strapping their kids in is indeed a common sight. And a very distressing one at that. You make a good point, they should indeed be taken to task , if only to possibly save their kids' lives later on. But people have no respect for the law, and they'll just carry on doing it anyway.

Benzo 5/22/2009 11:14:49 AM
Law enforcement for soft laws does not exist. By habit people do not obey them. Protecting swimming pools is another one. How many kiddies drown every year? Loosing a child by irresponsible behaviour is harsh punishment. The law should add to that in the form of community work or another form of "educational punishment".

dee 5/22/2009 11:16:44 AM
We see offences on our public roads every day. This wasnt even on a public road so no law was being broken. A tragedy and I cant begin to think what he must be going through. Take the real murderers off our road who endanger lives every day through deliberate breaking of road laws.

george 5/22/2009 11:17:44 AM
.. I feel for the father and mother and even though I brought the analogy of the taxi driver vs this incident, I still feel as a human being there is a difference and hope the father and mother can find forgiveness from themselves,courts and everyone on this forum..

reality bites 5/22/2009 11:18:37 AM
In view if the hypocrites who not only eat animals but perpetrate heinous crimes against these creatures which are exactly the same as people, despite all lying denials, I would say, what a useless discussion. Everyone who eats animals should go to jail for life.

susie 5/22/2009 11:20:13 AM
I feel so deeply for the father on this. People should not be so judgemental, you never know what is around the corner for you.

Felix 5/22/2009 11:23:05 AM
All parents should be punished by law for child neglect!!No seat belts, bad supervision,any abuse etc. Too many adults have children and don't or can't care for them. This accident is an example of what can go wrong because parents don't think of the consequences of their action and they are too lazy or careless to enforce rules.

esmee 5/22/2009 11:23:21 AM
My word! What perfect righteous people there are on this forum. I most certainly cannot attain to their wonderful self righteous selves.If only this father had been just like them, perfect in every way....

keith 5/22/2009 11:27:32 AM
Keep this in mind the next time you drive after or while drinking, talking on your phone while driving and not paying attention, skipping a red light or speeding, lighting up or putting make up on while driving ? these are no different to a parent that allows their children to stand on the front seat of a moving car or not buckling them in. These actions are only frowned upon or taken seriously when they result in death; all the other times they are done are ?once offs??better hope your once off doesn?t destroy your life and the life of others as well!

Bob 5/22/2009 11:27:44 AM
He should be charged with careless/reckless endangerment, something like that. All parents who don't make their kids wear seatbelts are blase about it until something happens, as I am sure this guy was. If a kid travels in my car, they wear a seatbelt, if they, or their parents, don't like it, they can travel with someone else. Simple.

Ivin Viljoen 5/22/2009 11:29:14 AM
You touch on something Jesus spoke of. He said 'if you look with lust.. you have commited adultery' & 'if you so much as hate your brother you have committed murder'. It seems he taught that the small act is with the intent or consequence of the worst. *ducking stones*

arthur 5/22/2009 11:30:42 AM
The negative comments on this forum regarding this absolute tragedy on that spesific farm is an absolute disgrace and just another example of the sick society we live in!!

Gabs 5/22/2009 11:31:12 AM
If this father is guilty of manslaughter, then 99% of parents are guilty of attempted murder, give the poor guy a break, losing his children is punishment enough.

Zandy 5/22/2009 11:31:33 AM
No, this is not murder, its culpable homicide. The father had no intention to kill his children.

Lynn 5/22/2009 11:32:08 AM
I feel for the father, but if this happened in America, believe me he would be in deep trouble. Remember Britney Spears when she had her child on her lap. Child welfare paid her a visit.

Markus 5/22/2009 11:33:39 AM
I've never met so many cruel people, you should be ashamed . If he thought for 1 second he may be putting their lives at risk he would have not done it . Doc is totally right , we are ALL guilty , we were just lucky . Leave the family alone , my heart goes out to them as a dad , it breaks my heart . People love to accuse other people of such things as it makes themselves look better . I think we can all learn from this and hope to GOD it doesn't happen to us .

Paul 5/22/2009 11:34:09 AM
and your point is?

Antony Carthy 5/22/2009 11:34:19 AM
Those of you who judge the father and attack Colleen, are of the same stock as the monsters that formed lynch mobs back in the day. Your self loathing manifests in a dangerous self-righteous anger.

JayB 5/22/2009 11:34:33 AM
I sympathise for the tragedy of the loss of these children. And I don't believe that the father should be jailed. However, if there is no punishment for endangering the lives of children in cars then this type of accident will happen again. Don't you think it is important to protect the children? So fining a parent or adult with a child in a car that isn't wearing a seatbelt is the right thing. And just because this society cannot police it doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Carl 5/22/2009 11:35:46 AM
I sincerely hope that the father mentioned here never gets to read this comments page

maxi 5/22/2009 11:37:33 AM
Accidents happen, but most often than not you will find that accidents are caused by acts of stupidity. What goes through the mind of a parent to allow their children to remain unbuckled in a car. Saying that keeping a child buckled is a difficult task just highlights poor discipline. Is not disciplining a child a form of neglect/abuse? The youth will lead the next generation but we aren't creating a good start are we if we don't teach them the value of laws/rule, soft or otherwise?!

JD 5/22/2009 11:38:19 AM
You seem to be way out of your depth here. Not wearing a seat belt is an offence or crime. Causing someone's death negligently is cupable homicide and is a crime. Killing someone intentionally is murder and also a crime. Each carries its own punishment. Reason from there.

Win 5/22/2009 11:39:01 AM
thats punishment enough. They the ones that have to deal with it on making stupid choices by not strapping them in. If people don't strap their kids in and nothing happens, so be it, they get away with it. But if there is an accident, then they've learnt their lesson the hard way and in that case I feel bricks for them when they cry to the world of their lost children!!

JayB 5/22/2009 11:39:35 AM
Yes it is an accident, but you have to wonder at people who think it is okay to let toddlers and baby's free in a car. Children do not have the ability to be responsible. The parents have to be responsible it is in essence their job. This father will tell you the regret he has for not doing the right thing. So for goodness sake stop saying it is okay he didn't put their seatbelts on. It's not okay... no matter how much you try and rationalise it.

eric 5/22/2009 11:40:34 AM
Colleen Figg you still an idiot. Just like your article about airplane seatbelts. One does not wear seatbelts for the sake of the law. You wear them to preserve your own life and you strap your kids in because thats what responsible adults do!!!

vicky 5/22/2009 11:40:57 AM
Those parents have enough punishment living with themselves every day - no jail term will make any difference - my heart aches for them - swimming pools and bucket drownings are another example and who hears of parents going to jail for that!

BP 5/22/2009 11:41:27 AM
The father is grieving and he will never get over this. So I think taking him to jail wont solve anything. Its a lesson for all parents to strap their kids.Please pray for them and show compassion. It was a mistake.

Leon 5/22/2009 11:41:57 AM
You obviously have no kids or you are a lousy parent. My 5 and 10 year old put their belts on and we drive form PTA to Durban with one stop and you batlle with the trip to school? Shame

JC 5/22/2009 11:44:26 AM
Were they not driving on their farm? A Private road, where I'm sure the law of having to wear a seatbelt would not be in effect. I do beleive in strapping children in myself, however, accidents happen, it can happen to anyone. Hind sight...is always perfect!

colin 5/22/2009 11:46:38 AM
I have a 7 year old girl and a 4 year old boy and if it was me killing my own children I would rather go and rot in jail than to live my live knowing that I am responsible for my children not being there anymore - parents need to be responsible for there childrens wellbeing and yes if your neglect results in the death of innocent children then the law needs to take its course - all of us should be equal in front of the courts.

Liz 5/22/2009 11:48:01 AM
Well arent you just the perfect, model human being! Wonder what will happen to all your strapped up children if you have an accident and land in a dam/river. An accident is just that. It could happen to anyone. Self righteous statements like yours have a habit of coming back and biting you on the back-side.

Andre 5/22/2009 11:49:26 AM
Hi There is a big difference between planning to kill and accidently killing someone. The difference is in the motive. Thats why the Judge must not be emosionally involved in the case. If the motive was to harm or murder, then sent to jail for long. If the motive was not harm or murder, then that father has learnt a very sad an expensive lesson. No jail or fine or whatever can bring those children back.

@doc 5/22/2009 11:55:44 AM
@doc 1 more point to your list, and the fools walking on the highway at night, which is dangerous to them and people in cars.

sam 5/22/2009 11:56:24 AM
We are guilty at some stage of our lives for not using a seat belt,all of a sudden theres a freak accident and every becomes Jugde Judy.The other day i was stopped by a metro police,my passengers at the back were not wearing safety belts,if it was such a strict law WHY was'nt I penalised? If you not sinned then feel free to throw the first stone.

L Savage 5/22/2009 11:58:05 AM
I do not believe it is the place of the law to punish him further, nor do I believe it would serve any purpose. It also is not always fair to judge a parent for children not wearing seatbeats - sometimes children can remove the devices without a parents knowledge! What happened is a tragedy, and the father will have to live with what he has allowed to happen. The only positive that can come of this is if it increases awareness of the problem and saves other lives. The law needs to get tougher on people who are caught being irresponsible with children and seatbelts. They should be given harsher fines, face the risk of having their licenses suspended, and be made to do community service in a hospital, rehabilition centre for injured children, or counselling centre for parents who have lost children - so that they can witness first hand the potential consequences of their actions.

Christine 5/22/2009 11:59:00 AM
The fathers guilt at what has happened is enough punishment - he has to live with that for the rest of his life. It was a tragic accident and all you commenters pointing fingers, just remember there are plenty pointing back at you. Accidents/tradegies etc. happen - give the family a break to grieve!

Markus 5/22/2009 12:00:20 PM
firstly you're and idiot and one the the self righteous perfect parents out there that can do no wrong , secondly , for the father , he is in hell right now , which is worse than any SA jail , or any sentence he may get . I think a mistake of this magnitude he has the right to be left alone. I remember the lecturer who left his baby in the car , everyone persecuted him . I learned from that lesson , and this one , and I hope all of you do as well .

amazed 5/22/2009 12:00:57 PM
it amazing how everyone commenting acts like good law abiding citizens. The man lost his 2 children, wake up, have a heart people.

Pro Abide by the law 5/22/2009 12:01:16 PM
Firstly, I have no intention of moving to Australia, but I do admire the way that they abide by traffic laws, it's a culture. It's never a debate on whether to drive under the speed limit or if they are going to strap the baby into the car seat. They always follow the law - friends and family living in Oz confirmed this. Policing is stringent and penalties are very stiff. SA doesn't have a culture of following traffic laws. We must change it one person at a time. Be the change you want in SA.

U.Watson 5/22/2009 12:04:10 PM
Murder requires intent to take the life of another human being. One cannot negligently "murder" someone. Negligence, if resulting in the death of another human being, can be culpable homicide (manslaughter). You have to wonder though whether a parent who has lost their child through their own negligent act has not already been punished enough?

TB 5/22/2009 12:05:03 PM
Murder: Killing somebody intentionally. Culpable Homicide: Killing somebody by accident or negligence. So, I do not really understand your point. He will be charged with the latter, whether deservedly so or not. That is the law.

TT 5/22/2009 12:05:27 PM
People please just put this matter to rest now, the poor family has suffered enough, columnist please come up with more interesting topics.

Neil 5/22/2009 12:06:19 PM
I AGREE IN EVERY WAY WITH 'DOC' AND "@DOC" - WHERE DOES IT END. The father is going through hell at the moment and will never forget- leave him alone.

Stephanie 5/22/2009 12:08:13 PM
Any people here who comes from a farm? You must know by now that it is a matter of having fun and standing on the back of a bakkie or maybe having a game drive on the back of a bakkie... This is not a public road where idiots who skip red robots or bought their licenses drive so why wear a seatbelt? God wanted the children, so if they were strapped in, they would have gone to heaven in another way! A farm is a place where the "city" gets out of you.. you enjoy yourself and feel free.

Cheryl Brown 5/22/2009 12:09:03 PM
In Australia the driver of a car gets fined if ANY of their passengers don't wear a seatbelt and gets points taken off their licence. I know SA doesn't have the resoucres to adminster something like the demerit system but by placing the responsibility on the driver people are vilgent about this

Edna 5/22/2009 12:10:59 PM
I cannot believe what I am reading. Have any of you who are judging these poor people ever lost a child. I doubt it very much. Get off your moral high horses and pray to go God that you don't ever go through what these parents are going through. Do you think they sit and drink tea over a nice piece of cake. They are broken and torn up inside its a type of sore you cannot imagine if you have been through something like this. Leave them alone to grief you idiots.

Bruce 5/22/2009 12:13:35 PM
For heavens sake, are you so self rightous that you have no sensitivity for the anguish of the parents.FIGG off

SB 5/22/2009 12:15:40 PM
No parent can say that they have not been in a situation where they have not been negligent with their kids, especially when toddlers. There are so many scenarios where one can lose your child but what will be will be. I agree with WB, the father of those kids has received the ultimate punishment. We are all human!

Skippie 5/22/2009 12:17:39 PM
I find it very funny/strange. How can people want to send this man away for life. His life will never be the same again. He ahs to live with his mistake. BUT, when a child is raped or abussed, then there are NO cries for sending those people away that did it to them.

Louis 5/22/2009 12:20:33 PM
Technically it is culpable homicide and our legal system makes provision for it. The Reasonable Man test is usually applied. Not wearing a seatbelt is a traffic offence, i.e. not criminal. But culpable homicide is criminal. The appropriate sentence in my mind is a supsended jail term and community service. Without accountability our legal system collapses. The father's grieve does not factor into this principle but is a circumstance that will lessen his sentence.

Dee 5/22/2009 12:22:17 PM
I have a two year old that knows we WILL NOT drive anywhere until she is strapped in her car seat. Even at a young age you can enforce that rule - that's no excuse!!!

Priscilla 5/22/2009 12:22:34 PM
I can almost guarantee that everyone that has said that this father is a poor parent and should be locked up or punished by law - does NOT have your own kids. It's very easy to critisize from the other side of the fence. God says do not judge, leave that judgement to me... For heavens sake people, it was an accident!!! I pray for this family and ask that the Holy Spirit comfort them in this time of need. God be with all you incompassionate souls!!

parent 5/22/2009 12:23:03 PM
any parent who does not trap in their kids should not be allowed to drive with their kids in the car. the excuse of "how do you strap them down" is a stupid one. I have two kids, one 5 and one 3, do you really think mmine didn't throw tantrums - this is what you call discipline - teach your children right from wrong. In Australia you will be very heavily fined if your kids are not strapped in!!!! People in SA get away with anything - it is time that laws get enforced!

suzie 5/22/2009 12:23:32 PM
and will be there for the rest of his life. He loved his kids and has a life sentence...don't make it formal....the pain that this man and his family is going through is enough

Carey 5/22/2009 12:23:59 PM
You are obviously one of these modern parents who are afraid of their children. If children know that mom's word is the law, and mom's word is that seatbelts are worn at all times, or the car doesn't move, they will wear it. You are the parent, take control. Its your job, for goodness sake! Parents of children who are not propperly strapped in in any moving vehicle, should be charged with reckless endangerment.

jacques 5/22/2009 12:26:09 PM
I don't have kids,so I don't really know - but is it so tough just to put on a seat belt for them? I think it is a pretty serious oversight not to adhere to the most basic safety principles - it is common sense after all ? I don't necessarily think there should be a harsh punishment for the father - he has to live with it - but in a role as a parent I think its pretty pathetic not to take care of your family.

roryg 5/22/2009 12:32:50 PM
I think if we just followed Australia, Canada and many other countries where the law states that children under a certain age must be in a car seat if in a vehicle, it would dramatically reduce fatalities. The driver should then be heavily fined should a child not be strapped in. Not wearing a seatbelt should carry a heavy fine. Not rocket science, just common sense. I do feel sorry for the father and if laws were in place, this could have been avoided as it would be second nature to buckle upn

Sharon 5/22/2009 12:33:05 PM
It is so very sad what has happened, there has to be some blame of negligence, the baby boy was just a year old, did'nt he just start walking,etc,etc, why was he left lying loose in the bakkie, surley there is childlock, I sympathise with these parents wholeheartedly, but if I were you, I'll think twice about have any more kids.Very Very sad!!!

Anon 5/22/2009 12:34:00 PM
It is indeed one of the most saddest situation I have came across in a long tie (except for the 4 sisters that died so tragically). Over the past couple of days I tried to put myself inside that parent's minds and bodies. It is an unthinkable pain just even trying to think and feel what they must feel right now. Sending him to prison is not going to do anybody any good. My guestion is: How long can a marriage last after such an incident?

Christina 5/22/2009 12:35:02 PM
Any person who harm a child whether it is by leaving him in a car or not using a safety belt or whatever is guilty of a crime and should be punished. -- Christina

Fuzzy 5/22/2009 12:35:54 PM
That is such a lame arguement about people dying because they couldnt free themselves from seatbelts. peercentages would amke a mockery of that logic. But in reality kids should be forced to wear seatbelts but woe betides the man who tells the a strange mother this - I stopped alongside one such woman and for my efforts i was sworn at, threatened with th wrath of her husband and his cronies and even trheatened with criminal charges for harrasment (New laugh apparently lololol)

Alf 5/22/2009 12:36:41 PM
How many kids die on the hands of their parents,drowning,locked in vehicles.Its horifying.Like pets u want them look after them.Kids need to be in back of cars and most doors have child locks or central locking,why dont use them.Must kids always die before we learn.

YesYes 5/22/2009 12:38:54 PM
Two basic rules, Kids must not play with door handles and must not interfere with the driver. You dont need seat belts, you need parents to discipline their kids, there are far too many brats around. Parents sort you brats out ...

morne 5/22/2009 12:42:31 PM
Please just remember that the same thing happened 2 Angus Bucham. It took him a very long time 2 get over it, and it even still hurts. I personaly think that we must leave this father alone. He is going through hell, and that's something I don't hope for my worse enemy. Ek hoop alle ouers neem kennis, en dat hierdie negetiewe gebeurtenis ook positief kan wees. Sad, very sad.

Janet 5/22/2009 12:43:13 PM
Oh how hypocritical us humans are... We all perform acts of 'negligence' daily. Fortunately, 99.99% of the time we get away with it. But, shhh - don't tell a soul.

AS 5/22/2009 12:44:26 PM
At the risk of incurring the wrath of some of the commenters on this forum, I am amazed at how you are all attacking one another so viciously. What happened is sad and could have been avoided. I am sure at this point in time, the father wishes it was he who was killed instead.

Alicia 5/22/2009 12:46:42 PM
I am sure there is not one parent here who has not transgressed in some way in the raising of their children. I certainly did, and it to could have been deadly. Life on a farm is so far removed from city life. This poor man is already under a life sentence. How to go on?...I have no idea, but my heart and soul goes out to all of them. May God put his Loving arms around them, and wash away their tears. We are all given time on earth...God decides how long. This WAS an horrifica accident.

Ebs 5/22/2009 12:46:45 PM
Will all of you who are NOT parents, please refrain from making stupid comments. You obviously have no idea what hell that father and mother is going through. Stop it, just stop this urge to punish everybody so you can feel better about yourself.

A Father of 3 5/22/2009 12:46:53 PM
We are not here on earth to judge. This could have happened to any one of us. There are times when my kids are strapped in and there are times when they are not... CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT THIS MAN IS GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW AND HE HAS TO LIVE WITH THIS SAD TRAGEDY THAT HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATHS OF HIS ONLY 2 KIDS. To those who are so eager to judge him and act the almighty, get down from your imaginery thrones and rather support this couple and send them all your love and blessings...

Michelle 5/22/2009 12:46:58 PM
The fact that this father has to live the rest of his days with the fact that he drove over his kids hanging over his head is punishment enough. No jail term will be able to equal the torment of that.

JK 5/22/2009 12:57:15 PM
and so should all other irresponsible parents that put their children's lives in danger - and the sentence should be community service with the paramedics. I sympathise that they lost their children and are going through hell but the fact remains that they knew it was dangerous to drive without strapping them in and did it anyway!

amandzing 5/22/2009 1:03:18 PM
positively yes. It's malice and aforethought if parents expose their children to this kind of danger. I am a parent. Use child seats and seatbelts and baby locks. there is no reason not too. Perhaps this will prevent another couple from having to pick their babys brains out of they tyre tread.

FsB 5/22/2009 1:10:19 PM
yes SK, you can actually keep a kid in a seatbelt for any length of yourney. I have 2 small sons and from the time they were very small, the seatbelt rule has been enforced. They put it on the moment they get in the car and it does not come off for any reason whatsoever. To the corner shop or for a 500km drive, they keep their seatbelts on. Strap your kids in silly SK. Learn from others' mistakes please? Lekker article Colleen, I like it!

MC 5/22/2009 1:10:21 PM
Hey bro, do you think its funny when a father loses his 2 children. You think you're so cool making coments like the father should go to jail. You are insensitive and need to catch a wake up. If that father could do it over again he would have died in the place of his kids. Instead of bad mouthing a person for an accident look at you're own life and see the things that you would undo. Have you ever driven a car with passengers who were not strapped in or talking on a phone while drivin...

sido 5/22/2009 1:12:22 PM
This is very sad to experience such an unnecessary death but then again why did he not put the kids in their kiddie seats????? and if it was a bakkie - why take them in the bakkie - surely he has another car to transport kids in

Carry 5/22/2009 1:15:20 PM
I can't think of anything worse, than losing your children, in the way that man did... And just by the way, how can we, as normal people, judge that man....? I think its by luck/supernatural/fate/God what ever you want to call it, that there aren't many more tragedies, caused by our everyday actions.

Sistah 5/22/2009 1:15:46 PM
We can all learn something from this tragedy: to be vigilant regarding our childrens safety at ALL times. On the roads, in the home, on outings... everywhere. God be with the parents, family and friends because it could've been any number of us in a similar situation because of our "minor indiscretions". It really isn't for any of us to judge...

bella 5/22/2009 1:16:20 PM
I think loosing his kids was punishment enough, We can't sit and judge what occurred at the point in time. Yes he should of put the seatbelt on, but unfortunately his loss should be a learning curb for the rest of us.

... 5/22/2009 1:19:32 PM
Really, it was a freak accident! When I was little I used to stand on the back of my Dad's bakkie and I LOVED it (when on holiday in side streets). Thankfully I never fell off. I can not understand why everyone is going crazy over an accident...rather go focus on people who kill for fun...these parents need support and understanding...they have mine.

Mother 5/22/2009 1:26:28 PM
Firstly may God be with this man and his family. Wot a bunch of insensitive plp we have in this country. Look up the definintion of what a mistake is.....They happen all the time. Lets be more sensitive to the situation, it must be really rough for him and his family.

MC 5/22/2009 1:27:58 PM
I have been to accidents where people burn to death inside their vhicles, possibly being trapped from wearing their seat belts. Will the law take blame for that.

William 5/22/2009 1:28:03 PM
People stop with this nonsense there are more issues in our country than a freak accident. All of you that had something to say about the family wait until the shoe is on the other foot. Leave THEM ALONE!

Lynn 5/22/2009 1:29:55 PM
I feel terrible for this family but the law is the law and he should have had the children strapped in, farm or town, it is the responsible thing to do...

Suzanne 5/22/2009 1:33:38 PM
I have 3 boys aged 8, 6 and 1. They NEVER travel in a car unless they are strapped in, even when we travel long distances. The two older boys have known from a very young age that they are not allowed to loosen their seatbelt and they buckle up immediately when they get into a car. I explained to them that I want them to be safe. I only had to threaten once or twice that I'll drop them off on the side of the road if they do not buckle up. So if you really care, it's quite easy.

Zee 5/22/2009 1:37:00 PM
Let him who is without fault, cast the first stone. Yes, I agree, seatbelts are EXTREMELY important and I strictly enforce that with my 14-yr old, but is it necessary to crusify this man? What about all the other kids (in the cities) who stand between parents in a car and who are not bealted-up??? Why only complain about this issue now that something has happened??? I am ashamed by all the negative comments towards the father....

Faithless 5/22/2009 1:42:04 PM
in some way or the other when we are in our cars and on the road. Be it not wearing seatbelts or not using kiddie seats to shooting red robots to speeding. It is these little things that we ignore and do on a daily basis that will lead to a tragedy such as this. We must start to respect the value of changing our own bad habits and that is all we should have to say about this family. Leave them to handle their tragedy. what purpose would murder charges serve? Live and learn.

GP 5/22/2009 1:58:10 PM
Recently I read of a little baby that died on the door step, and the parents were arrested for negligence, as the baby died from the exposure to the cold. NEGLIGENCE is NEGLIGENCE, there is no grey area. No seatbelts is a crime, period. THE FATHER WAS NEGLIGENT! Don't be selective on your judgements! Either enforce the law, or throw the book away. I am sick of these selected opinions and judgements! Father is grieving... no doubt, negligence caused this. Feel sorry for 1, feel sorry for all.

Retep 5/22/2009 2:47:59 PM
Two more children gone, another accidental death due to adult neglect. Our children will never be safe because we as adults are to stupid to care. All of you saying you forget to strap your children in once in a while should be ashamed of yourselves. Do you not read the papers or watch the news? How you can treat your kids with as much respect as a packet of groceries is beyond me. As much as I feel for this father, if he doesn`t get punished in some or other way we are failing the future.

Stirer 5/22/2009 3:13:59 PM
There are a lot of emotional comments out there. The law is not emotional, it examines the facts. I believe that Murder or Manslaughter is a bit harsh. I would say that the deaths were as a result of misadventure (accidental); however the father was still negligent in not ensuring that they were belted in. He should be charged under that part of the act, and the judge should hear his case and pronounce accordingly. (possibly a suspended sentence and/or fine - as there was no intention.

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