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Georgina Guedes

Bigots over breasts

2009-06-18 14:05

The distinction between free speech about contentious issues has always been a bit blurry to me. I believe that people shouldn't be allowed to incite violence against others, and disagree with the beliefs of at least half the people on the planet (this is something being a News24 columnist has taught me) but don't think that it's really possible to legislate what people feel or think.

Whether or not they have a right to publicly speak out about what they feel or think is the difficult issue. Anyone who has an opinion will at some point offend someone. At that point, it’s all too easy for the offended party to cry "hate speech".

Without getting too caught up in the semantics of that argument, it's been interesting to note that social networking site, Facebook, refuses to ban groups that publish offensive material. It's only at the point that the groups make a call to violence that Facebook gags them, which is in keeping with American legislation about freedom of speech.

So, as offensive as they may be, Holocaust denialists, anti-Israel activists and anti-Muslim groups have all found a home on Facebook. Tragic as this is, it does make the site all-encompassing of the society it represents.

Oddly, though, at the same time as bigots and racists are allowed to have their say, pictures of breastfeeding mothers are classified as "obscene" and their owners are forced to remove them from the site.

This sparked an outcry among breastfeeding women, who feel that nursing their children is the most natural thing in the world, and images of this shouldn't be restricted.

In response, Facebook released the following statement: "Photos containing a fully exposed breast (as defined by showing the nipple or areola) do violate those terms (on obscene, pornographic or sexually explicit material) and may be removed, spokesperson Barry Schnitt said in a statement.

"The photos we act upon are almost exclusively brought to our attention by other users who complain."

Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, so what? So what if people complain? They're sad, sorry, uptight, unnatural people who don't accept the most natural act in the world as the beautiful thing that it is.

How can Facebook classify breastfeeding as something "obscene, pornographic or sexually explicit", while still allowing bigots and racists to proliferate, even in the face of extensive petitions from other users to remove their groups.

Aside from the fact that breastfeeding is best for both the child and the mother, and that women should be supported in their choice to do the right thing, a woman holding a child to her breast has as much right to freedom of expression, if not more, than a bigot who calls for companionship in his hatred.

What's really astonishing about the Facebook ban is that while it hides behind the First Amendment in protecting freedom of speech as it is based in the United States, nowhere in that country is it illegal to breastfeed in public. So it's decision to ban breastfeeding mothers is based on its own prejudice, rather than any legal foundation.

I, who almost never join groups on Facebook, will be appending my name to the call of the "lactivists" to allow their photos to be uploaded and their freedom of expression to remain intact.

Georgina Guedes is a freelance journalist. She thinks that breastfeeding in public is far less offensive than watching children being fed McDonalds by their parents.

Send your comments to Georgina

Disclaimer: News24 encourages freedom of speech and the expression of diverse views. The views of columnists published on News24 are therefore their own and do not necessarily represent the views of News24.

- News24


Johan 6/18/2009 2:09:10 PM
Who cares?

Where would we be... 6/18/2009 2:34:03 PM
without beautiful bouncy breasts...in hell! Thats where! Nice article. People seem to run such conceited lives. Let them complain. Let them eat cake.

stack 6/18/2009 2:37:50 PM
I have no problem with women breastfeeding or even doing it in public. I just dont understand why you would want a photo of a private moment between you and your child to be your profile pic on Facebook ????

chops 6/18/2009 2:41:55 PM
Breastfeeding is not an excuse to show nudity. If facebook only removes pictures showing nipples then I agree with them. It's still nudity. Saying it's the most natural thing means nothing. Peeing is the most natural thing in the world but I'm not going to put up a picture of myself holding my thing while peeing. If those moms really want to show themselves breastfeeding surely they can cover up their nipples while doing so?

cuba 6/18/2009 2:42:45 PM
your last line was pure gold, thanks for that one :D.

as for the article, the argument is about 'context'. a boob is a boob, and as such, when displayed in public, it has to be restricted as boobs & nipples fall into the lap of erotica and porn. the problem with that, is that they are not taking into account the context in which the boob found itself out in public. in this case, the context is breast feeding and should be allowed to be seen in public since this is a natural occurance. the same can be said about the black ladies (i would mention another racial/cultural group, but i don't know of any others) who perform ritual dances topless. this could be seen as obscene (because we can see their nipples, heaven forbid!), but it's displayed in the context of a cultural event and as such, is A-Ok.

context is the most important thing to consider in these cases and facebook's lack of concern is rather disappointing, but at the end of the day, we cannot force them to change their views, only raise awareness and convince them to see the errors of their ways.

Justine de Clercq 6/18/2009 2:42:48 PM
I agree completely with this story -Facebook removed of my modelling photos which contained no pornography or anything of the sort due to jealous people reporting my photo's! I think people are very childish and act wrongly upon jealousy. Facebook is indeed very hypocritical.

Jimmy Jackpot 6/18/2009 2:50:53 PM
By the same one can say that having sex is the most natural thing in the world, which it is, I just don't want to see you do it. Keep your boobs to yourself.

SMG 6/18/2009 2:51:32 PM
Natural of course. Gross, yes. I still don't want to see another lady's boobs while she's breastfeeding. And yes, I'm an adult lady.

Singita 6/18/2009 2:52:43 PM
Great article. But I think that if you register with any company/social network, you AGREE to THEIR terms, conditions and conceptualization of right and wrong, inter alia, their idea of the freedom of speech.

Jane 6/18/2009 3:00:08 PM
Geez Georgina, if you really want to show your nipples on the internet, I'm sure there is somewhere you can go.

ICV 6/18/2009 3:15:01 PM
You win some, you lose some... some people out there would consider a photo of a couple making love to be the 'most natural and beautiful thing in the world' and whether you agree or not, you should abide by the rules of any specific platform that you use or keep it to yourself. If you feel so strongly about it, create your own website and post all the breast feeding pictures you want. Guess it must be a good day in SA if this is all you can whine about...

Ronel 6/18/2009 3:16:13 PM
I don't know. A naked breast is a naked breast no matter what it's being used for (breastfeeding or sex). I don't think fb has a problem with breastfeeding, but only with nudity. A penis might also be very natural and all that, but would you like your kids to put pictures of their penises on their fb sites? Or of sex, which is also very beautiful and natural and all that. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Graham 6/18/2009 3:18:19 PM
Cant stand Facebook. Closed my account with them.

turbo_superboss 6/18/2009 3:30:17 PM
yes yes I agree, show us your boobies!

Pikey 6/18/2009 3:36:03 PM
Why would you want to stick a picture of yourself breastfeeding on facebook in the first place?

ProfAndy 6/18/2009 3:48:12 PM
The constitution and laws against 'hate-speech' are in direct conflict with the principle of freedom of speech so it seems that some kind of 'meta-morality' needs to be applied. Condemning and insulting those committing hate-speech 'crimes' (a Senator in the States wants to "round up" all those guilty of hate-speech) seems to me to be a worse, more insidious form of hate speech. Because it is politically correct to agree with the official story (be it the Holocaust or 9/11) seems to give these people the right to commit their own form of hate-speech.

Any form of prohibition- be it on alcohol or speech- where it goes against the natural thoughts and urges of societies will always be doomed to fail. Live and let live- you can always walk away from or switch off a source of information you feel uncomfortable with.

More problematic is that very often these issues are highly emotionally charged and the truth or higher objectivity is too often lost, deliberately or not, in name-calling and rabble-rousing. We need more calm rationality to solve the problems we have on our plates in this world...

Silver Surfer 6/18/2009 3:54:28 PM
Blah, blah. I don't want to see you breast feeding your child ! And since when is it the "MOST natural act in the world" ? There are plenty of other things at least as natural and some even more natural. This came up on another site yesterday and some of the commentators were right, urinating and defecating are as natural and I don't want to see you doing that either !

Jonno 6/18/2009 4:04:27 PM
Would it be acceptable for a woman who is not breast feeding, I don’t know, say a woman walking down the street, to bear her breasts to the world? Why should it be any different for a woman holding a baby?
In addition to this, public nudity (pudity…haha) and freedom of speech are two completely separate issues. I will admit that both could be found offensive but I don’t think you can compare the two as they are altogether different.

jim 6/18/2009 4:10:48 PM
What pointless drivel...

thelostsheep 6/18/2009 4:23:37 PM
Use another social networking site other than facebook if you are unhappy with them. I personally do not like facebook at all

fern 6/18/2009 4:56:21 PM
Breastfeeding or not. you are still exposing yourself. And exposing others to this. Duh!

Karen 6/18/2009 5:11:06 PM
Georgina, there are many things that are "the most natural thing in the world", but please!!! I don't want to see it. Sex is natural, but I don't to see you doing it. Pooing is natural but I don't want to see you doing it. Your time of being milked like a dairy cow is natural, I agree, all mammals do it, but its disgusting and we don't want to see it. Just because you have a small person latched on and sucking away at your nipples is no excuse to bare your boobs to the world. Many people find it quite repulsive that supposedly civilised woman, who would not fart in public, are quite happy to resort to such primitive behaviour and then call it natural and call the people who object "uptight". If being civilised is uptight then so be it, just keep the fact that you are a dairy cow to yourself.

Spoon 6/18/2009 7:24:20 PM
Catchy title, empty article. Come on! What was that? Facebook banned breastfeeding photos?! Thank goodness they don't have a piles club on FB, imagine those "natural" photos. Eeeew!

johan 6/18/2009 7:53:09 PM
Why must breastfeading pictures be allowed? Because it is natural???

Urinating is also natural as well as sex, I don't urinate or have sex in public and don't place photos of it on public websites

Chris Edwards 6/18/2009 10:03:29 PM
Come on Georgina, show us some tit! News24 is a tabloid organisation after all, so where is the flesh? What about a page 3 (make that 3rd article pinned down) girl each day. A counter for all the racist messages posted each day. Then we could have bigotry and nudity and show FB the middle finger. Just balance it racially, I am South African please!!!

moo 6/19/2009 2:36:57 AM
Strop writing crap, you are bored.

Ian 6/19/2009 6:23:10 AM
Georgina I think you are red-hot,we would love to see you breast feeding ;)
Sexy babe.

Gunnar 6/19/2009 7:18:17 AM
Georgina, well done, I support your views 100%.

Michele 6/19/2009 7:19:33 AM
I agree fully with your article, breastfeeding is natural and a beautiful thing. BUT I also wonder why someone would put up as their profile pic a picture of them breastfeeding their child? I guess it is different strokes for different folks. I see nothing wrong with it at all, but I would not post a pic like this of me as my profile pic. Oh and BTW - I agree - rather see a baby on the boob than watching kids stuffing junk food down their throats! But that is a whole other issue and worthy of a whole new article!

peter neal 6/19/2009 7:37:00 AM
I live in africa,bare breasts are everywhere,feeding,flopping or just hanging around but one must assume that there is a difference between a white one and a black one,either way I find them delightful.

Lindiwe 6/19/2009 7:43:47 AM
There is a difference between showing off your breast and breastfeeding . visit medicalbooks please . breastfeeding is meant for the baby's nutrition and people should learn to accept it.As much as you can eat anywhere anytime , a baby should also be fed anywhere anytime.Stop intimidatinf mothers who choose to do the right things.
concerned

Chazz 6/19/2009 7:45:07 AM
Viva vleisboek! I am just wondering whom will post a picture of themselves breastfeeding? That is just plain odd, get of facebook and chat to your friends in person.

Dr Steve Brule 6/19/2009 8:04:51 AM
I am all for nudity don't get me wrong, but sex is also very natural and you can put that on there, besides women who put those pics up are just trying to show of and think that they are so awesome for getting banged up, pathetic, also it might be someone elses child in which case it's child porn, think about that. Plus dark nipples are gross

Jawellnofine 6/19/2009 8:05:58 AM
Instead of your mug why don't you put your jugs out there?

AT 6/19/2009 8:19:24 AM
i agree with facebook, if you start showing breast (even during breastfeeding) where is the line....giving childbirth is 'natural' imagine if woman want to start showing pictures of their beautiful baby 'coming out' facebook has a good policy of keeping pictures 'clean' lets stick to it!!

Willie 6/19/2009 8:35:14 AM
No really... discression goes the better part, people are not saying it is wrong, but lets be honest, there is just no need to show it either. Move on.

Wesley 6/19/2009 8:42:05 AM
I have no complaints. MOAR BREAST FEEDING PICS!

Tigra 6/19/2009 8:42:52 AM
As natural as it is, there are children using facebook and I don't want my kids looking at any form of nudity. It sets a precedent that can result in negative behaviour. And just because the pic was taken in one context, doesn't mean someone won't see it in another context when looking at it.

Ian 6/19/2009 8:54:23 AM
I suspect that Facebook themselves could not care less whether people post pictures of breastfeeding on their site. Their only concern would be if they commit a criminal offence in the process, and expose Facebook to prosecution. I would guess there are probably some old pornography laws in the US which prohibit the display of fully exposed breasts. Do womens/pregnancy magazines in the US show pictures of fully exposed breasts ? My guess is your gripe is probably more with US law than with Facebook.

Elias 6/19/2009 8:56:48 AM
When you joined FB you agreed to the terms and conditions out of your own free will. Why would a woman want to past pictures of her feeding her baby showing her breast? I agree with you that the hate groups on facebook is disgusting but Facebook is a american based company and governed by the constitutional rights of the states. I think you are grasping at straws and you have been, in my opinion you have been grasping at straws in all your colums for a while now and i think your creative talents have desserted you.

Wisdom 6/19/2009 9:11:54 AM
Why would you wanna show your breast on the internet?

Mandy 6/19/2009 9:40:24 AM
I firmly believe there is a time and place for everything. Showing pictures of women breastfeeding on FB is not the place. Get over it. Geez. Find something constructive to moan about.

Anon 6/19/2009 10:00:34 AM
I'm a mom and breastfed my baby and I agree that its a very natural thing but myself and my husband have had experiences where we will be in the company of a someone with a baby and they will just pop their boobs out and start feeding their child - not even covering up. This made my husband feel very uncomfortable and I know that it would make most men uncomfortable. Breastfeeding in public is fine as long as you cover up BUT posting photos on facebook of breastfeeding where the nipple is exposed is more than a little strange (for the person uploading the photo). Why on earth would you purposefully want to show all your friends (and vague aquantences) that? That's personal, between you and your baby and doesn't need to forced onto other people.

Mike 6/19/2009 10:05:56 AM
it is there site, they make the rules, live with it, if you don't like it go somewhere else. ppl complain over petty things far too much

John 6/19/2009 10:12:47 AM
Breasts are amazing - they come in all sorts of shapes and sizes & if females want to display them on facebook that's okay with me. But why would someone want to have a picture of them breast feeding for crying out loud.

andile botman 6/19/2009 10:21:02 AM
just show them we know the some have and we even grow interest through them just do it they part of our being ignore those who opt for freedom of foolish expression

a 6/19/2009 11:10:04 AM
as much as i am not a fan of facebook.... why would you want photos of yourself breastfeeding your child, its a site available to anyone that knows you... and dos not, so why would you want those pictures up?????
i do not find the removal of these photos a bad thing at all... if someone can answer why a woman would be offended by having photos of her breastfeeding a child removed... i would appreciate it, because at the end of the day... your the one who will complain about all the little girls parading around in their short skirts...

AJ 6/19/2009 11:53:43 AM
Unfortunately it is the American definition of obscenity thatis being applied. Everything is allowed, but the slightest hint of a nipple is going over the top.

Thobile 6/19/2009 12:18:41 PM
Very interesting debate guys. I agree with the cover-up guys though, really there should be a line drawn somewhere. And why would you think your child wants to be exposed for the world to see anyway. Keep it under wraps y'all.

Pod 6/19/2009 12:43:37 PM
Georgina, you consistently write the biggest load of plonk. Build a bridge, and get over it!

Red 6/19/2009 1:59:50 PM
I agree with you about what can be published or not on facebook... but even as a woman I think breastfeeding in public should be stopped. It may be a natural thing but so is going to the toilet which I choose not to do in the view of the public

Andre 6/19/2009 3:12:57 PM
I wish I knew who the fool was that decided a woman's (or human's) body is offensive !!

Johhny Sixpack 6/19/2009 3:41:33 PM
Doing a "number 2" on the toilet is also one of the most natural things in the world, so by that logic picture of people on the jazz also shouldn't be "offensive". IMHO - If it has the power to offend, don't do it - end of story - leave pictures of you breastfeeding your baby in your personal folders on your PC - that way nobody can complain and you can "enjoy" them whenever you want.

Devil's Advocate 6/19/2009 4:18:51 PM
There is another issue, not being addressed in this article. Since we live in an equal society, why are men able to have pictures on fb of themselves without any shirt on, but women are not allowed to do the same?

Que 6/19/2009 6:22:41 PM
An interesting article. I completely agree with Cuba. Context makes all the difference in the world. I've seen groups that have pictures of naked men and women in explicit detail that, months later, were still not removed.

Modern society seems to have so many problems with nudity in general and, thinking about it, I can't understand why. Yes, pornography and such should not be allowed on a site like Facebook, but, that being said, why is breastfeeding pictures such an issue? Nudity in this sense is completely different from porn. And simply put, if you don't want to see it, don't join the group. Those of us who are more liberal and less uptight about nudity, especially in a breastfeeding context, don't see it as offensive. It actually makes me want to laugh. A popular argument is that children should not be exposed to this. But, firstly, don't be fooled - children who are looking for nudity will almost certainly find it, and I very much doubt breastfeeding women is what they're aiming to find. Secondly, again - it's not porn. Almost all of us can say we've seen one or both of our parents/siblings naked at some point - is it offense then? Of course not. So why is breastfeeding? Who's business is it of ours to judge those who want to put pictures up of a natural part of raising a child?

Facebook does seem quite hypocritical. I can only roll my eyes at those who complained and reported the pictures. What sad and little people they must be.


"Breastfeeding in public is far less offensive than watching children being fed McDonalds by their parents" - very funny, and I can't agree more.

Chloe 6/20/2009 1:21:52 PM
It's facebook's biz really. I breastfed my babies for more than a year each but I don't ever want to see that done in a restaurant where I'm paying to eat. I will certainly walk out. I gag very very quickly. When it's your own, hey it's your moment and glorious it is too. Open your own facebook type thing and open your own set of rights I think.
cheers

Sam 6/21/2009 1:34:52 PM
Call me sad, sorry, uptight and unnatural, but I REALLY don't want to see another woman breast-feeding. I wouldn't want anyone else to see me breast-feeding my child either. Poor sad, sorry, unnatural me.

Eugene 6/21/2009 9:33:48 PM
Facebook is an American outfit; the Americans are amongst the most absurdly puritanical people on the planet, probably beaten only by the Taliban themselves. Which explains why you can post photos of mutilated corpses on Facebook, as long as said corpses aren't nude, but not photos of breastfeeding mothers. Not that I mind much. Fadbook will blow over, just like every other idiotic bit of American pop culture eventually does.

Robert 6/22/2009 7:45:34 AM
Those who argue that any form of nudity is explicit or pornographic really need to stop and assess the situation. But that's the world we live in. Somehow it's always been right to show people beating each other, shooting each other and that's just the news... but one naked breast and all hell breaks loose.

I guess far too many forget the old saying of make love not war. I guess ultimately if anyone has a problem with anything they should simply not look?

Carry 6/22/2009 8:01:37 AM
Why can't everyone just leave everyone else alone???? If they put photo's on that you don't like, DON'T LOOK!!!!! There are much bigger issues in the world, than a mom breast feeding her baby. Thanks for the article!

taurus 6/22/2009 8:13:28 AM
Where's the bigotry? They define, you keep to the rules. And why anybody would want to put up a picture of them feeding their baby is just beyond me. I concur will all who have said that some things are best viewed in private.

Anonymous 6/22/2009 3:29:46 PM
Hey there's nothing beautiful about seeing a mother breastfeed.

TheOne 6/22/2009 8:23:36 PM
Breastfeeding is not a nice site. "watching children being fed McDonalds" is a horrendous site to say the least! They should ban McDonalds in SA for health reasons, or they should put huge labels on the burgers and chips as they do on cigarettes.

Icarus 6/24/2009 11:12:19 AM
"Lactivists" - Brilliant!!

terry 6/24/2009 3:01:17 PM
Good articale as it brings in the question of Freedom of expression and that has no grey area ... either it is or its not . Freedom of expression is when everything and anything can be expessed , as soon as you have even a single restriction then there is no freedom of expression . That SIMPLE . You can't take the spectrum of opinion and expession and snip off the ends and selected parts to make it more palletable for some people and call it freedom of expression (thats called censorship) . I say bring it all on !!! If you don't like it, don't look and have the balls to make up your own mind about things and respect others to make up their own minds too .

terry 6/24/2009 3:04:15 PM
Why would you want post pictures of yourself breastfeeding on facebook anyway ? plus its facebooks right to restrict whatever they like , they created it , they own it.

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