A crisis of our own making?: News24: Columnists: GeorginaGuedes

bokkie 5/15/2008 8:59:05 AM

Some valid points Len, but the government is complicate in other ways as well. For instance, it is the continued policy of "quiet diplomacey" that is driving Zimbabweans accross our borders. Now one reads of accusations of a so-called 3rd force and/or the IFP being used as a smoke screen to mask the Xenophobia problem. Shocking!

Johann 5/15/2008 9:02:22 AM

The time has come for the ruling party to accept and acknowledge that their complacency has now resulted in a new form of uprising. When the police fail to respond to crime, the dept of Home Affairs fails to prevent illegals entering our country, and top members of the government are not reprimanded for their bad behaviour, members of the public take matters into their own hands. The ANC has the opportunity to dig some respect back. Blaming the IFP and this third force is not the answer. Sending Mama Winnie to Alex won?t help. They need to take action. They need to fix their oversights, and less than enthusiastic behaviour of the past, and become the party again that made the people support them in the first place.

Barry 5/15/2008 9:09:32 AM

If only our government would take care of its primary resposibility the safety of citizens - LAW & ORDER! That way ordinary citizens would not have to resort to protecting themselves, their families and their communities.... There will always be 'collateral damage' when justice is executed outside of the system but any deterrent is better than none... and none is what comes from many of the authorities who are often criminals themselves.

Birdman 5/15/2008 9:09:49 AM

Valid points! This may be a crisis of our own making but it is too late for statistics to help. The problem is there and statistics will be perceived that they are inacurate based on the reliability of other statistics (manipulated, flawed etc).It is interesting that a report on 3rd force instigation has already been prepared by the ANC, when will they stop the blaming? They have no control over illegal imigrants and created the mess, they must fix it urgently. accountab

psycobabble 5/15/2008 9:13:25 AM

of brewing tensions around the country Len.The frustration of people with this so called govt being unable to connect with people on the ground.Their representatives the saps seem to sit back and watch and are not employing preventative measures.They only react to things.You would need NGO and media in greater numbers than the cops to report failures on their part and it would have be 247365 to be effective.

jannie 5/15/2008 9:13:28 AM

"..SMS lines...are mostly accessible to the rich folk in the suburbs rather than in the townships." I disagree with you. Almost every person today have a cellphone and the sms rates for reporting crime is R1, which is really not much..it is not as if people are going to sms everyday.

Sello 5/15/2008 9:16:01 AM

To be told that you must send an SMS to some number in order to report crime, or make a call to some toll free number, may sound as a solution, but there are places where people dont even have simple phone handsets, like here in my rural village. I think the police system needs to be empowered with crack investigation skills to do their jobs. If they rely on us, are they telling us that they wont work if we fail to help?

terence 5/15/2008 9:17:02 AM

why out useless military does not patrol our borders anymore? what is the use of this military of ours do they even know how to use a hand grenade. I am serious when i say i would be pretty afrid if a country like mauritius came to invade us because i dont think our army could stop them. I remeber back in the day our military was one of the best in the world, south africa was effectively a world super power, not anymore .......

fatman 5/15/2008 9:18:28 AM

The reason why so many foreigners come into this country is because it`s so easy.There is little or no border control,our useless army are sitting around doing nothing,oh ,excuse me, they are doing something,GETTING FAT!These foreigners are not as innocent as we think,take Mathias for example,rapist, murderer,armed robber.People from Alexandra are doing what any normal citizen would do,defend themselves against foreign criminals,who rob,kill,rape because they can without fear of useless cops

Tank 5/15/2008 9:18:43 AM

It is easy to play the blame game but the fact remains every person is accountable for their own actions. You can try and justify it all you want but at the end there will be no excuses. Murdering ANY-ONE is wrong regardless of why you did it.

VLS 5/15/2008 9:19:54 AM

Len, take a step back cowboy. You harp on about how there is an unproven belief that foreigners are responsile for violent crimes in SA yet you then confidently state that township dwellers know of criminals in their families. If you have statistics to back yourself up here I would love to see them. Idiot.

Coloured booitjie 5/15/2008 9:20:41 AM

Zimbabweans are the victims and the criminals are the South Africans attacking and killing them. So if police follow Susan Shubangu's advice, they must shoot and kill the criminals with the weapons. Nothing wrong with that. Shabangu never said shoot and kill civilians or refugees. Kolobe, what do you have to say about the racist actions of these criminals? If it was whites killing the Zim's, Racism would have been splattered around in bold print, instead of the fancy name xenophobia.

veritas 5/15/2008 9:21:51 AM

The solution proposed in this letter has been tried and shown to be a failure as the media have been reporting on crime for many years and no determined action has been taken to curb it.

bokkie 5/15/2008 9:23:29 AM

Sorry for the typo. I meant complicite - hope you guys get the point anyway

Thokozani 5/15/2008 9:26:55 AM

I don't think your comparison is accurate, two cases that you trying to pit together are very different. Even the reasons behind these cases are not the same.I do agree though that much protection is being given to those dwelling in the suburbs that in the townships.

Sgubu 5/15/2008 9:28:25 AM

Your analysis of the situation in Alex is rather weak, it?s largely based on what you?ve read from the newspapers and to even link Susan Shabangu's call to the police to shoot and kill if their lives are in danger with what is happening in Alex lives one confused.

John Camp 5/15/2008 9:30:26 AM

WHY is there a cost to any SMS reporting crime? Perhaps this is only one of the reasons it is considered a service for the richer folk. Identified base stations (ie MTN, Vodacom etc) should be serviced by teams in the base station areas and if crime is reported via sms, these FREE sms should be relayed to the correct force for swift action. It can be done!

Luke 5/15/2008 9:33:38 AM

i believe we need to take a step backwards to go forward, i see solutions coming through that are one dimensional in approach. Are we fully understanding the problem before seeking solutions? have we questioned the very nature of the solutions? are the solutions driven by fear? are they blame driven? are we as individuals prepared to take responsibility for the situation and consider a holistic approach to the problems at hand? I believe transition in this country was too quick and we are on the brink of collapse. The level of basic skills is abysmal as we have lost one of the most important commodities in our community; its intellectual capital. Skilled people continue to leave in droves; and those staying are not equipped to carry out the tasks required. No body can be imposed or oppressed unless they allow it to happen, some of the wealthiest slave traders in Liberia were the Liberians themselves, we need to take responsibility, become present and make new decisions as we realize that we can use our most important gift to realize our selves, the gift of choice.

krantz 5/15/2008 9:34:55 AM

It's not criminal or racist. It's about self-reservations. Let the people of Alex and Diepsloot be. In the long run it'll be good for the country. We get rid of the serious trash. No pain, no gain.

colin 5/15/2008 9:34:57 AM

No Len it does not make sense to blame Susan Shabangu for the criminal acts of irresponsible citizens from Alex. I believe that there is a 3rd force involved - why don?t the attack the Nigerians drug houses in Central JHB or other foreign syndicates which they are aware of if they are so concern about foreigners who are engaging in criminal acts , instead they target mainly women and children who can not defend themselves.

Ami 5/15/2008 9:39:07 AM

Unfortunately not everything can be blamed on the government. Comments by officials, however irresponsible, certainly dont contribute to crime and what has happend in Alex. I'm not defending government and I agree on their failure in many things but trying to pin the blame on government for anything and everything is actually just quite petty. Go vote next year and start contributing positively to our country instead of complaining about everything.

Kolobe 5/15/2008 9:39:11 AM

Len we have always been warning this government about this attacks...I wrote an article long time ago warning the government to erect refugee camps..this issue was even discussed in parliament once again the government refused to listen...they have themselves to blame for this mess...we cannot have war lords of other countries roaming our street...

Rian 5/15/2008 9:39:42 AM

Do you not think that the SMS should be free? We watched special asignment this week it was about rape. One of the cops on hidden camera told the woman that it was good that she got raped as it would teach her not to walk around at night. Not to mention that the minister of safety and security is implicated in the Travelgate scam. Jee wonder why we have a crime problem.

MJ 5/15/2008 9:41:51 AM

SMS lines are cheap and annonymous, and accessable to all. I see beggars with cell-phones, you cannot presume it is only for the rich. Anyway, these have been set up by private organisations, what is the government doing?

Minaiza 5/15/2008 9:41:53 AM

..I don't think you have lived in any Township, just so you know there is a lot of people without cellphones in the Townships.

VG 5/15/2008 9:42:31 AM

Len you just disproved your assertion in the first sentence. Shabangu was talking to cops about shooting in defence of themselves and the public.Xenophobic attacks were recorded all over the coountry well before this statement was made.How do you condone the hypocrisy of ganging up on suspected foreign criminals while failing to out those in you own family? We cannot blame the govt. for everything - morals are taught (or not) at home.

Malcolm X 5/15/2008 9:45:04 AM

Zimbabweans do not belong in South Africa. They have a democracy & the right to vote for a new government. There is no crisis in Zimbabwe, according to influential sources in the ANC. As a result, there is no such thing as a Zimbabwean refugee. Deport all the buggers & then we can stop seeing crime & violence as Xhenaphobia & rather see it for what it is. The only problem of course is that once again our native Africans will have nobody to blame for their own downfalls.

shane 5/15/2008 9:45:24 AM

These comments will probably not be posted again.We all know that crime statistics are one of the biggest secrets in the country before it is tampered with and then released once a year.It would be nice to see stats that show how much foreigners make up what statistics of crime and what crime is directly commited by blacks on white.I think the truth will always be disguised by the gov/ANC becuase it is so staggering.They will blame everybody incl. the tooth fairy but themselves.

Win 5/15/2008 9:46:20 AM

I agree with you, I can't remember the stats but correct me if I'm wrong, something like 60% of the armed forces are HIV positive. As in the great words of Mel Miller: "Great, lets send them across the border and f&*^ them to death!" The military is sitting on thiers asses doing nothing anyway, R43 Billion arms deal for what! Let them go back patrolling and make a little more effort in curbing illegals crossing our borders.

Devil's Advocate 5/15/2008 9:46:48 AM

to all foreigners in SA. According to radio news report the DP visited Alexandria? yesterday and told foreigner that they will be protected under SA law and the criminals attacking will be caught and brought to book. Very commendable. I am just wondering why Foreigners in Alex gets a visit and an undertaking like that when 52 murders are taking place in SA everyday, and then we have to listen to the BS that there is no crime in SA. Is it only crime and murder when it affects foreigners?

martin albert 5/15/2008 9:48:07 AM

The current situation in Alex is a valid expression of society, government & the ANC must take responsibility for policies that have failed miserably. This country has become a refuge for any illegal & legal African who is not happy with their own country. They take jobs away from our own people & work for a pittance which perpetuates the inequalities of the labour market. J Naidoo put it in perspective in his recent Sunday Times article when he stated that just replacing 30% of all foreign employed aliens would have the effect of reducing the unemployment amongst our own people from 34 to 26%. People are tired of being accused of crime that foreigners are involved in.

Kolobe 5/15/2008 9:49:08 AM

All of the people that were attacked say that it is the Zulu speaking men that are resposible...because this Zulus are known to be supporters of the IFP the ANC believe the third force is the IFP...I think the ANC assumptions makes sense..This Zulus have even chased away people from North West and Limpopo in the process..and this are our people...this cannot be a xenophobic attack because not only illegal immigrants are being punished...this is idiotic crime..the Zimbabweans must go home to vote.

Ed 5/15/2008 9:50:40 AM

Sorry but, what you saying does'nt make sense. The goverment is to blame for Alex. Why are they letting these people in the country.We have our own problems to deal with ie. Crime & Poverty. Send the people back that don't belong in the country. The SAPS is only doing there job. Trying to protect the people of SA,but with no help from Gov. and the Justice. They cannot do their job.So Susan Shabangu took the first step. Not even Mbeki our leader.

i've seen it 5/15/2008 9:52:03 AM

i use to stay in diepsloot my uncle have a stand there he past away so my dad decided that i should stay there.cause i was working in 4ways the is about nine shacks of back dwellers in stand of 30meters squar which of 3 of the shacks where for zimbabeas they pay rent, every 2nd week members of their family come and joined them within days of staying to in diepsloot they be working and find they own place's.one of them was arrested for criminal activities, some of them are good people .

Sin 5/15/2008 9:52:25 AM

Short and sweet Len, just the way I like it. A case were STATS would supply us with alot of insight. Unfortunately, no one is allowed to have these stats. As for violent crime, not being racist with regards to farm murders etc, I disagree.

stack 5/15/2008 9:52:26 AM

This is exactly what should be done!! ITS A GREAT IDEA!!!! Lets tell the cellphone highway robbers of MTN VODACOM & CELL C - It is their social responsibility to help with things like this - they are making and absolute kings ransom off poor people and crime too !! (you still pay your phone & contract even if it's stolen - you then have to buy another one! Disagree with Len who says that SMS lines are only for the rich. You would be surprised how much the poor spend on cellphones, SMS's, etc.

Coen 5/15/2008 9:53:23 AM

making the third force do it. What a farce to believe this third force nonsense! I believe it's criminals fighting amongst themselves, period.

ET AFRICA 5/15/2008 9:55:47 AM

I believe the government is to blame for this mess. There are no control on any of our borders, anyone can get in here without a problem. also our own people don't want to work, so of course the Zim people, who are more than willing to work, gets the job. So, sort out our borders

Len van Heerden 5/15/2008 9:57:13 AM

While many people have handsets, my maid has to send me a please call me back message in order to contact me. I have approved my parents and other people I know to call me using Reverse Charge in order to contact me. I can afford R1, but many cannot, especially if it means sacrificing something else when it is cheaper to turn a blind eye. In any case, many of the people are not even aware of these efforts since Primedia is the promoter of such efforts.

william 5/15/2008 9:59:41 AM

if hundreds of Zimbabweans descended on your neighborhood and came to live on your front lawn? If you only had basic skills and these people took your job because they are willing to work for half your salary? If some of these people do not want to work but choose to steal your bread that you have worked for? What would you do Len if these foreigners threaten the very livelihood of your family? Call the police? Pffff if that was so easy then we did not need burglar bars,electric fencing and dogs with lion genes , did we? The very simple reality is that bad government policy allows pressure on the most vulnerable part of society and they are using the only means they have to defend what are theirs because the ANC was only interested in their votes and I guess they will be promised jobs and houses when election time comes ,BUT for now they are on their own.

LvH 5/15/2008 10:00:12 AM

I agree that we need to understand both the fears and concerns of the Alexandra residents, but we cannot condone the violence. Sure, people must report crime and if the police ignore them, then need to approach the media or NGOs set up to monitor the situation. There is valid argument in what some of the residents say, but any valid argument is undone by the stupid actions we now see

kwk 5/15/2008 10:01:53 AM

I agree with shoot to kill to save innocent lives.What I don't agree with is the macho statements WITHOUT any attempt to change the law (which isn't geared for the crisis).The Alex dilemma is definately of our own making, due not only to frustration with crime,but also lost human empathy in our education system(mobs attacking women with babies).I'm currently ashamed to be South African.

Len van Heerden 5/15/2008 10:05:09 AM

I accept that you are confused, though I disagree with the reason of your confusion. If we tolerate violent behaviour by the cops to deal with a scourge in our community, how do we expect the community to react? When your child sees you beating up on your wife, chances are that he will learn to perceive that violents will sort out his problem, hence our problems in this country.

Birdman 5/15/2008 10:05:16 AM

Colin has a good point! Why not tackle the known criminal strongholds of the Nigerians? It may be on the cards soon-who knows? People have had enough of all this and are starting to do what the authorities dont or wont do. Citizens will do it for themselves soon and more effectively than the police can. Criminals cant bribe the masses for protection. Throw the criminals out of a window or the country. Save our children and families not the criminals.

kwk 5/15/2008 10:06:40 AM

It is our own making:siding with oppresive Zim government ,slack border countrol ,local frustration with crime and seeking someone to blame ,violent mobs looting posessions in the name of justice ,inferior enterprise and integrity among SA labourers,making foreigners more employable

Len van Heerden 5/15/2008 10:07:03 AM

I do not blame government for what happens in Alex, though utterings like that of susan Shabangu do not help. I do however am concerned about the inability of our cops to deal effectively with crime regardless of the underlying reasons for such crimes

prometheus 5/15/2008 10:07:41 AM

You mention farm killings were proven to be criminally motivated. The sheer violence and mutilation some victims suffer suggests this was another of those "there is no crisis in Zim" and "poverty causes AIDS" statements... You dont burn people with boiling water or chop off their limbs 'cause you want to steal from them... Surely?

Hattie van Jaarsveld 5/15/2008 10:10:12 AM

Len I partly agree with you. Reading the comments of all who responded one can see we are a nation in crisis. Put ourself in the shoes of the "innocent" Zimbabweans, "heartbroken families" of killed farmers and their workers, South Africans without jobs and safety, ens, ens...... receipt of disaster. I realy am short of words and a true opinion.

Len van Heerden 5/15/2008 10:10:21 AM

Irrespective of the justified frustration by Alex residents, do you think murdering women and children (including South Africans) and for the police to allow the chaos is the better option? If I was in the situation you describe, I probably would react in the same way depending on my values at the time. However, I would think those in Alex if they were in my situation would condemn such barbarism. Let us find solutions without violence. We have people from all over the world in the country.

william 5/15/2008 10:13:05 AM

Statistics say that only 4 million people in SA have AIDS while a international health organization say it is over 6 million. Statistics say that crime is dropping. What do you think? What are you going to fix with statistics ?? wake up and smell the cheap instant coffee next to your bed.

kwk 5/15/2008 10:13:57 AM

Looting posessions, attacking defenseless people, raping, pillaging are dispicable crimes, by whatever justification given.No wonder the foreign refugees are considered more employable. Anybody who doesn't do that is more employable that anybody who does.Anybody who does that should not be "negotiated with"!What happened to good old policing?

Len van Heerden 5/15/2008 10:16:27 AM

The center for security studies (or something like that) recently released crimestatistics recently which showed a decrease in some crimes. As far as I know, they are not government, but an NGO which has been critical of government in the past

Piet Van Bieltong 5/15/2008 10:16:49 AM

At the lowest level of the food chain, this being where most of the inhabitants of Alex are, Socio Economic factors are felt ?full frontal?. The immigrants from neighbouring states are mere competitors. The advantage the Alex people have is that their on home ground. This phenomenon is prevalent in most prominent economies UK, US, etc. The Scorpion should be spending time uprooting the cause i.e. illegal immigration, illegal allocation of Citizenship, availing of the country?s limited resources to illegal immigrants. In the absence of this the people all over SA will vent their anger on that which is perceived as being competitors. Last time I checked entering a country illegally is a criminal offence..?

VG 5/15/2008 10:16:49 AM

most of these immigrants are actally highly skilled but fail to find employment becasue its politically sensitive to poach teachers etc from neighbouring countries. I wonder what would happen to all the ex-South Africans who fled to Oz if they received the same treatment when they got there? I'm sure half of Sydney are Safricans - whats wrong with us that we cannot help our fellow man? There is no excuse for what is happening in Alex. Period.

kwk 5/15/2008 10:18:57 AM

You posed the question to Len, but me, I don't know what I would do if all that happened to me. I can tell you thoug, what I wouldn't do: rape, looting, burning, killing, attacking woman and babies, pillaging.That is what the Alex residents are doing.If the were demonstrating, I would have had empathy with these locals, but is it is, they don't.In fact they will still vote for the political party that caused the problem in the first place.

MONWA 5/15/2008 10:19:13 AM

the people are cleaning the government mess.

Ma P 5/15/2008 10:19:23 AM

Shabangu never said shoot and kill refugees, what are you associating here is totally different and i desagree with you big time. Think of something else to talk about.

jannie 5/15/2008 10:20:54 AM

Point taken.

Len van Heerden 5/15/2008 10:21:12 AM

You are right that xenophbia attacks have been happening all over the country and that the message was directed at police. Try telling the child that when you swore and beat your neighbour, it was not for their consumption and they should act more rationally in dealing with same type of person as your neighbour. I bet you will be disappointed. Her statements did not cause the attacks, but made the thugs more determined.

dan 5/15/2008 10:21:26 AM

You totally wrong with comparing the violence and what the minister said,it is pure xenophobia, and criminal elements also taking advantage of the situation.but govt is to blame, little to no border control or patrols, the so called quite diplomacy, and also SA employers who exploit these foreigners because they work for cheap salaries, and yes lazy SA labour force.

Brother 5/15/2008 10:21:29 AM

Yes....now all of a sudden the residents in Alexandra wants to cry, while around the corner their brothers are selling SA ID's and passports to these foreigners/illegal immigrants. Explain that to me.

Matrix 5/15/2008 10:23:20 AM

As with many previous articles, the competencies are lacking in RSA to do this objectively and in unbias way. ANC and Gov is to blame for this situation because of their policies. Look at all their failures and tell us, the public, that they are doing a good job. Crime tollerance is exceedingly perpetuated and accepted. At first, small crimes then bigger. If immigrant controls were effectivly enforced, xenophobia would not have existed. FACT!!!

Johnnoh 5/15/2008 10:23:26 AM

We might consider that the 3rd force is the criminal element in our society. It effects all communities and even influences foreign thought on our country. Visitors for 2010 are not as concerned about the state of preperations as they are about their safety when they visit our country. Along with this gioes the apethy of the powers that be in SA. News reports of peoples frustration that leaders can not even arrive on time for a scheduled meeting.No respect for the people the people they represent

Tebzano 5/15/2008 10:23:57 AM

Most people commenting here have never stayed in a township and have the audacity to accuse the people of Alex of been violent. What do you if somebody comes illegally here and within months he has shelter and you don?t. He gets deported and 1 week alter he is back boosting about how easy it is to come here. Mbeki and his Ostrich approach is to blame.The people have heard it. I hope they follow this with a no vote for the ANC next year. Wait until a squarter of illegals mushrooms in your suburb

Len van Heerden 5/15/2008 10:24:45 AM

My brother, I accept your criticism of government and also affect the fact that Mozambican criminals murdered my best friend, Roger, in Cape Town last year. I accept that the level of violence often indicates a callous regard of humanity in this country and a lack of attachment by the killers, but women and children are the ones most affected by the Alex violance and not all are foreigners. Police should do their job while our government should tighten the borders and prosecute the Ho.Aff crooks

Colleen Figg 5/15/2008 10:26:08 AM

of foreign black people by local black people were done before Shanabngu made her call for an eye for an eye. Do not make excuses for the appalling behaviour that South Africans, who were previously oppressed themselves and should know better; are engaging in. It is disgusting and inexcusable.

Mbuzi 5/15/2008 10:37:31 AM

The solution to this crisis of illegals in the country is to deport all immigrants who came here after 1992 only those who were here before 1992 should stay around because they "helped in the fight against apartheid". Thos who came after that period came to a South Africa that was now peaceful, by deporting those who came after 1992 we would be having about 200 000 - 300 000 foreigners in this country.

M 5/15/2008 10:41:50 AM

living in Alex think the foreigners are criminals, most of the criminals are SA citizens living in town ships. They will know about this if they live there since its easy to identify a foreigner based on the language (accent) spoken. Just ask the people there and they will tell you otherwise. Yes, immigrants also take part in crime. But all that is just an excuse to rob, murder an pillage. The skills they learned during apartheid are misused. Showing you just how "good" our SA citizens really are

M 5/15/2008 10:46:48 AM

They don't attack Nigerian drug lords because even the cops fear them. The refugees from Zim don't carry massive weapons and rape/kill you for the slightest possible reason. Thats why. Stop dreaming up some 3rd force scenario again, because last I heard the 3rd force blame a 4th force for everything...

NorthernExposure 5/15/2008 10:49:16 AM

The Police are now responsible for the patroling of our borders. The decision regarding this was taken a number of years ago and since then Defence force capabilities for patrolling our borders have been scaled down. Looking at an area like Musina on the border with Zimbabwe only about 50 police officers are now patrolling the border.

charlie 5/15/2008 10:53:03 AM

Some I disagree with , There are facts and stats to prove that a large number of farm murders are racist. Ask Agri SA for those stats. Crime report services should be free I said that long ago.These forigners are taking food out of SA citizens even more if the work for less money or setup spaza shops so I too would get upset. Thi ministers comments was meant for SAPS not any one who feels like it !!

Jim 5/15/2008 10:55:43 AM

When Susan Shabangu said shoot to kill she was talking in defence of life. At least I hope that was her context. There are laws governing criminal behaviour. This includes illegal or undocumented foreigners. Force Government & the police to apply these laws. Then only legally approved people are in the country and they are entitled to the protection of the state. It is time for the Groot Volstruis (T Mbeki) to pull his head from the sand and make things happen.

bongani 5/15/2008 10:55:53 AM

speaking of stats , I seen in the news that SA has only 137 000 police officers , So if they deploy all the countries police officers the ilegal immagrants still out number the SAPS by 4 million!! So these imagrants have the numbers to take on the SAPS and probible give them a good hiding !!

karabo 5/15/2008 10:58:38 AM

i stay in Alex myself and i feel bad for these foreigners,these pple earn an honest living and they are willing to do any job to take care of their families. What i dont understand is why do we chase away our african brothers and sisters they have more rights to be here than the whites,coloureds,indians why dont we chase those away,please can someone make me understand why we treat these pple like crap.In the apartheid era our pple stayed in their countries without being victimised

Steven 5/15/2008 10:59:22 AM

This is the result of the government's open border policy. What can you do if an illegal immigrant take away your job because he nearly works for free? Complain to the government? There are no legal avenues to follow because government has collapsed those avenues.So the frustration builds up and then ......

Bridget 5/15/2008 10:59:29 AM

Mr. van Heerden. I would like to differ with your statement regarding the issue of farm murders. What would you say is the reason if not racism? If these persons were only stealing, maybe, but the reality is that when farm attacks are perpetrated, people are tortured, raped and often shot in execution style. Now are you REALLY going to assert that these attacks are poverty-driven? If not, what is your explanation?

jannie 5/15/2008 11:01:51 AM

"..so I too would get upset.." The Alex people can get upset, but killing and beating is not upset, it is criminal!!!!

Mbuzi 5/15/2008 11:04:11 AM

You know in order to deport all the illegals in the country we need to wait until Decemeber when they go home for holidays, and then put the SANDF in the borders at around January so that they can stop them before they return here. In that way illegals would be few. Another thing is SAs crooks sell land to illegals so that they can erect shacks and if this can be stopped they would have no alternative but to return home since they would have no place to stay.

Kay 5/15/2008 11:13:15 AM

That ignorant people in this country actually believe that violence and crime is commmited by foreigners! There is absolutely no regard for life here and people have been doing what they have always been doing- killinbg then they do the usual SA norm- whine and blame someone but themselves. Hard workers will tend to get jobs when lazy pple just sit. Ask anyone who owns a restaurant- they would rather hire foreigners coz they are not violent and will not steal from you or set a robbery up for you!

50% single 5/15/2008 11:15:34 AM

The number of this foreigners has increased dramatically in the last few months & the resources of this country are getting stretched to the limits, I'm not surprised to see this violence cause everyone is fighting for survival!!!!!

creech 5/15/2008 11:21:14 AM

There is no way you can make the comparison to what the minister said,there is a huge difference between the minister saying the POLICE should shoot to kill if their lives are threatened and a bunch of hooligans going around raping and murdering innocent civallians

psycobabble 5/15/2008 11:22:08 AM

are transparent Len.In your replies to some comments you state that you dont blame govt but chide the saps for their actions or non actions as if they are a seperate entity to to govt which you know very well that they are not.

shane 5/15/2008 11:24:58 AM

Very good piont Len but alot of their information is gathered from goverment institutions like the SAPS which needs to get authorization from the big heads within the SAPS to release any information to the public who are ANC representatives and infact representing the goverment on grass roots level.So unless this NGO has got unconditioned access to the SAPS database i will hear what they say but wont trust it 100%

tshepo 5/15/2008 11:30:38 AM

pointing the finger at the minister it's cowardly im my view. People are capable of thinking for themselves and i think their just frustrated with their situation. I really don't see how the minister's statement can be applied here, afterall she was talking to the police not hooligans.

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