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Max du Preez

The race debate

2009-09-02 08:59

So we're having a full-on race debate - again. May it be extremely fruitful.

Our nation is riddled with bigotry. It stands in the way of us being more successful and of being a happier society.

But before we roll in the muck of self-pity and victimhood, let me assure you we are not necessarily more racist than other societies.

The countries of the former Eastern Europe, for instance, are hotbeds of racism. I spent four weeks in the Balkan states late last year and the hatred among communities towards each other, and all of them towards the Romani people (Gypsies) and others with dark skins is palpable.

Yesterday I watched a BBC World news item on the physical attacks on black people in Russia that have become a daily occurrence.

But that is small consolation. Our history and demography demand that we deal with racism as a priority.

I agree with Marianne Thamm when she wrote in this space yesterday, "What amazes me most about contemporary white racism is how casual it is."

Marianne was also spot on when she wrote that if you wanted proof of what she meant, "you scroll down to the comments section after this column". Too many people see the internet as a license to publicise their basest opinions.

I am further amazed that the only contribution so many intelligent white people can make to the debate on racism is to say, "But look, blacks are racists too".

I am saddened that too many senior black politicians, business people, sports leaders and even judges blatantly use race and racism to cover up their own inadequacies and failures.

I believe it is healthy for us to debate the racism question again now, but not if it is simple a slanging match between angry and/or insecure white and black people.

Sadly, the political leadership we have right now is spectacularly incapable of giving direction to any national discourse.

My thoughts therefore went back about 18 months to a speech US president Barack Obama made on race and racism in the US. I have never heard a politician make more sense on this issue.

Obama was reacting to what he called "incendiary language" by his pastor, Jeremiah Wright, who had expressed views "that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike".

Obama said Wright's mistake - and doesn't this sound familiar? - was "to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality".

Obama said to understand the present tensions and inequalities, one needed a reminder of past practices.

Here are some excerpts from his speech applicable to our situation:

"Segregated schools were and are still inferior and help explain the pervasive achievement gap between today's black and white students.

"Legalised discrimination meant blacks couldn't own property or get bank loans, which meant that black families could not amass any meaningful wealth to bequeath to future generations. That history helps explain the wealth and income gap between black and white, and the concentrated pockets of poverty that persists.

"A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one's family, contributed to the erosion of black families.

"For all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn't make it - those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations - those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future. Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways.

"That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch.

"They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labour. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighbourhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

"But I have asserted a firm conviction - a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people - that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice if we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.

"For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. But it also means binding our particular grievances - for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans - the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for own lives.

"In the white community, the path to a more perfect union means acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination - and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past - are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds - by investing in our schools and our communities; by enforcing our civil rights laws and ensuring fairness in our criminal justice system; by providing this generation with ladders of opportunity that were unavailable for previous generations. It requires all Americans to realise that your dreams do not have to come at the expense of my dreams; that investing in the health, welfare, and education of black and brown and white children will ultimately help all of America prosper.

"In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world's great religions demand - that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us."

That was Barack Obama.

Imagine South Africa with a president who talks to his people like that.

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Comment on this story


Phoebe 9/2/2009 9:32:38 AM
there have been no greater truth than that "... the political leadership we have right now is spectacularly incapable of giving direction to any national discourse." ..why is it so?

pap & wors 9/2/2009 9:37:35 AM
Brilliant speech by Obama. It really puts things in perspective. Whilst on the subject of racism - the Caster Semenya issue is a classic example of frenzied nonsense. The gender testing requirement by the IAAF has nothing to do about race. But yet the media, politicians and public have leapt on the bandwagon, hijacked the situation with all the conjecture, speculation, bigotry and race card stereotyping. Now that is a real distortion of all the issues thrown into the stewing pot.

musanka 9/2/2009 9:39:15 AM
Congratulations on your matured approach to the matter. We are extremely individualist and its time we move to building a community of wellness & appreciation. Lets move away from being Moses(s) to being Arron(s).

J 9/2/2009 9:40:12 AM
Uh, I'm sure I've heard similar sentiments from JZ himself and most of his cabinet.

Barack Obama is not the custodian of political morality.

Tina 9/2/2009 9:40:21 AM
Do you think we can rent him from the USA for a couple of years?

AfroStalin 9/2/2009 9:42:30 AM
Very well put Max, my only concern about a national race debate in South Africa would be that it wouldn't be as inclusive as we'd like it to be (definitely not with young Malema at the helm), and it would most likely just degenerate into a "whites are evil" diatribe. What is needed is an honest politician that can speak to all, but still be sympathetic in knowing "that race matters". What definitely scares me is the current rise in opportunistic politicians who are using the race issue to further their own careers at the expense of us all. It wouldn't surprise me if the failings of the current government will be blamed squarely on white "counter-revolutionaries", instead of just plain bad management.

Sharon 9/2/2009 9:43:00 AM
An unbelievable human being. You too Max!

Mark 9/2/2009 9:43:38 AM
What a great speech by Obama. It indicates the importance of truly great leaders who can inspire people around them that can truly help make the world a better place. Obama in all his actions and thinking shows the wisdom of a truly great leader. If only the world had more people like this instead of the typical politicians.

Cognitor 9/2/2009 9:50:47 AM
Good article - thank you.
Hopefully by the next generation we will all be living to without racism.

But then we need to work at it now already!

Chris G 9/2/2009 9:51:31 AM
Imagine having someone other than Julius Malema. I get called a racist for saying anything you can think of, so of course I'm resentful.

Rodders 9/2/2009 9:52:04 AM
Nice one Max - couldn't agree more. The problem with the vast majority of white folk in SA that constantly complain is that they can't seem to get their head around the fact that 400 years of inequality cannot be solved in just 15 years, however much we wish it could. But if we can adopt similar pirnciples to those espoused above by Barack Obama, perhaps we can begin to make some headway...

lufuno 9/2/2009 9:53:57 AM
I think that Obama was saying nothing about non-racialism, the difference is the delivery style. However, he is correct on every point theoretically, the devil is the implementation of the programmes to correct the wrongs of the past. Zuma can wake up tomorrow and make the same speech and inspire the nation both black and white, but when a white person does not get a job because of affirmative action then its back to square one "reverse racism."

Little man from Mars 9/2/2009 9:55:18 AM
What SA needs is a leader or leaders (Black,White, Yellow, Green, Male or Female) who can implement Nelson Mandela' vision and dream of a Rainbow nation, and not leaders who can only implement favours to friends. We need to nurture the willingness of most people of different races to work together and not promote any self centered politicians, who forget that they are there to serve all the people, and not only those who voted for them.
Only then will SA and the world be able to get rid of the race issues.
Hate speech on public blogs, should be banned, as this actually intensifies Race divisions.

Jairz 9/2/2009 9:55:21 AM
I work for a white couple who sought and employed me based on my skills as well as experience in a skills development programme, not because I am black. They offered me the job at the worst of time for me and I'm still here doing my work. I'm saying this to underline the fact that not all whites are racists. The race debate will be with us for a long time and maybe in the future we will have leaders with enough mental capacity and education to deal with race issues earnestly. It was embarassing to see mature politicians using Caster to spew the racist vile on others. Barack is an inspiration. Our President has to step up his game.

Brian 9/2/2009 9:55:36 AM
What a glorious day, when all of us as South Africans can move forward, and stop blaming the past. To be honest, I think South Africa is the best country in the world, the only thing that concerns me is the crime, once that is sorted out, what a place to live!

Little man from Mars 9/2/2009 9:58:05 AM
What SA needs is a leader or leaders (Black,White, Yellow, Green, Male or Female) who can implement Nelson Mandela' vision and dream of a Rainbow nation, and not leaders who can only implement favours to friends. We need to nurture the willingness of most people of different races to work together and not promote any self centered politicians, who forget that they are there to serve all the people, and not only those who voted for them.
Only then will SA and the world be able to get rid of the race issues.
Hate speech on public blogs, should be banned, as this actually intensifies Race divisions.

tubtub 9/2/2009 9:58:59 AM
brilliant.i remember reading this speech,and it was incredible!a well written and balanced article..

IandI 9/2/2009 10:00:17 AM
South Africans, including me, are all racists, in one form or another.It does not matter what colour or whether you just arrived here from Mongolia,or whether you have two white/black friends to your name.We are all RACISTS,accept it ..period.Right..I know i'm generalizing, but it's time to call a spade a b&*%#4 spade.Now that that is out of the way, let's work together to build a better country for us all. Let's tackle the issues at hand and stop pulling out the race card. If a govt official is incompetent, we(ruling party supporters) should NOT defend him just because he is black, even though we see ourselves that he is incompetent.Forward to a a prosperous South Africa.Anyone, black,white,indian,coloured, chinese, khoi or San who does not want to make a positive contribution and keeps hiding behind the race issue, Canada is waiting for you, fare thee well, enjoy the snow!

Arthur Symington Smythe 9/2/2009 10:03:50 AM
Another lame article trying to force unnecessary guilt. LEts all be lemmings

Andre 9/2/2009 10:04:19 AM
Well said. Live and let live .

thabisa 9/2/2009 10:05:09 AM
"In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world's great religions demand - that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us."
I live on this principle and yes we all have grievances but one thing I know if you live with negative emotion you'll always get negative results

Gary 9/2/2009 10:05:43 AM
What a leader!! and yes...Imagine...

colin 9/2/2009 10:08:33 AM
Obama is like no other world leader - he has a real vision of change not only for America but for the world - but for his vision to realize into reality we would need all the world to stand together against racism and condemn it in all its forms – I believe that racism is a bigger threat to the human race and it is core ingredient in all the conflict all over the world and if it is not dealt with then I do fear for the future of my children and my grandchildren.

Koos 9/2/2009 10:09:54 AM
Its not about race, its about the money honey....

Cynm 9/2/2009 10:14:06 AM
"Imagine South Africa with a president who talks to his people like that." If we had a president who talked like that half the population wouldn't understand what he said :).I agree with the message you're trying to bring across. Racism wouldn't have been so prevalent if we weren't reminded of it at every corner by our government. The government is doing a great job polarizing the population.

mp 9/2/2009 10:24:51 AM
excellent

Afrikaner 9/2/2009 10:26:38 AM
Racism is expressed in different ways. Maybe there are white people mumbling the k- and n-words around braais, but on the other hand literally thousands of whites have been killed, attacked, robbed or raped by blacks. However, very few of these are viewed as racist incidents. Why is this? Why is it unacceptable to whisper the k-word, but it seems OK for blacks to violently attack whites?

Shrek 9/2/2009 10:43:05 AM
Agree with landl.

Deon 9/2/2009 10:48:04 AM
I've lived and worked in Europe the past year and a half. During that time I had chinese, indian and even a black guy from Nigeria as friend and colleague. People's race were not an issue. I guess by now you know I'm white. When I got back in SA things changed drastically in terms of attitudes towards blacks in particular. Yes indeed, Europe and the whole world is rife with racism and the problem does not lie with colour alone but more so with culture. The way we do things. Our cultures dictate to a large extent how we handle and perceive the world. Add to that the base fact that we are genetically programmed for aggression and violence and the chance to change people's views become even more difficult. Unless we can find a common "way to do things" or culture we can forget about ever trying to change racist attitudes. I cannot see that it will ever change. In the end conflict is an unavoidable consequence.

Theseus 9/2/2009 10:49:12 AM
The best place to begin fighting racism is on the statute book. Fortunately the obscene racist laws passed before 1990 have been removed, although some live on in AA legislation). The post-94 racist laws (AA, BEE, Preferred Procurement, etc) also need to be removed. We either have legislated economic ethnic cleansing or we don't. We either have race-based legislation or we don't.

The next area to look at is the hate-speech from politicians. It is blatant how there is very little from whites but blacks (Hlophe, Malema, Manuel, Duarte,...) spout hate-speech and play the race-card without inhibition.

Much as I admire Obama (who had a white mother) Max, you should think about Luther King's dream - "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character". If that is freedom, we have a long way to walk.

lufuno 9/2/2009 10:53:43 AM
I think that Obama was saying nothing new about non-racialism, the difference was the delivery style. However, he is correct on every point theoretically, the devil is the implementation of the programmes to correct the wrongs of the past. Zuma can wake up tomorrow and make the same speech and inspire the nation both black and white, but when a white person does not get a job because of affirmative action then its back to square one "reverse racism."

Stephen 9/2/2009 11:05:08 AM
We need speakers like Obama as our leaders. Not necessarily people like Obama. I think it's great that he wants to close the gap between races. Just a pity it's at the price of socialism, which is causing the gap between poor and rich, as well as Republican and Democrat to widen. But sure, that's their problem, as long as they sort out the race issue. We may yet harvest leading speakers like that too someday.

Pete S 9/2/2009 11:23:26 AM
Isn't it time that we all stop with this obsession with racism and equality?

The simple reality is that there are few, if any, examples in the world today or in the past, where racism or differential views on those that are different from us, has not been pervasive. We are different from each other and we should be free not to have to defend those differences all in the name of some ideal concept of equality or sameness.

It is not what one thinks, but how one behaves. Treat others with respect and dignity -- simple as that.

Imagine That 9/2/2009 11:31:33 AM
Blah Blah, the only persons in this whole race debate appears to be incompetent Journalism vs. Sensationalism. At least your are creating something to say for Max du Preez. Here is a thought, maybe the only Racists in SA is the ones (journalists) thinking about it the whole time and their motivation is not to resolve but to incite. At least it sells papers. Stop giving the empty vessals so much thought, it gives them more than what is due. The average South African is not as stupid as what you are trying to prove.

Silver Surfer 9/2/2009 11:32:07 AM
Whatever. I agree with Arthur Smythe. Your letter is all about White guilt, again. I am not falling for it. I need to look after my own. I guarantee you this, the Black government has NO interest in looking after the White population. At least Canada understands.

YesYes 9/2/2009 11:41:14 AM
The next great world war will have even more Ethnic killing than ever seen before .. based on colour and religion .. regardless of how our JZ talks to us .. the deep down problem here is the hatred of blacks towards the white becuase of the bitter taste apartheid still has in their mouths .. that will take generations to sort out .. but if you look at the pure hatred of Islam towards the Jewish state and the 'West' then our problem is micky mouse .. we need a world war of huge magnitude to level the playing fields .. possibly even to prompt the returing of the great one back to this Earth to sort out this kak ..

H 9/2/2009 12:14:19 PM
Our problem is the ANC they remind us of racism on a daily basis. Obama is just another politician dont be fooled by him. I was born in SA and can not call this my home. This is a depressing country to live in. The resentment and the hatred is to big.

Hayibo 9/2/2009 12:23:21 PM
I don't seem to get the feeling that Obama's speech condones practices like what's going on in our country at present. Yes, we must diligently ensure that opportunity is there for black and white, but Obama points out that two wrongs breed resentment.

We have to recognise and address CURRENT incidents of discrimination, and make sure that "your dreams do not come at the expense of mine". Where in the world does our style of BEE/AA fit in with these words?

Those of you who read his speech as justification for our implementation of AA/BEE are fools and miss the point completely. I understand his vision to be that of a non-racial, open opportunity society, where big corporates neither discriminate against black nor white job seekers. Where public education provides black and white with sufficient opportunity to pursue tertiary study. Where access to adequate state healthcare is there for all, so that they may enjoy healthy lives and so have more time to focus on self-improvement and their studies. These things are what an equal opportunity society needs to provide. These are the real ladders people need to have to realise their dreams and empower themselves.

It is glaringly disgusting how government's inability to provide those two and many other cornerstones of a society of equal opportunity is attempted to be "quick fixed" by draconian racial discrimination embodied in our current implementation of AA/EE concepts.

It is a false sense of achievement and creates only a facade of empowerment while the impoverished masses lag behind the unsustainable gravy train.

Al 9/2/2009 12:27:44 PM
Please save us from Max du Preez writing anything about racism. Yes, many whites ARE racist, but all those who are so ready to always identify the racists and racist acts, are equally racist. The time is NOT ripe for a debate about racism as we do not have a government that would be able to participate meaningfully. That is why it was necessary to use Mr Obama's speech as an example.

Z 9/2/2009 12:36:38 PM
Great article Max, well balanced as usually. Well done. I would like to believe that South Africa has some incredible honest objective individuals who can conduct and steer this debate to a level where, with all our differences, we get to ACCEPT each other. The problem is not that we as SAfricas don't know out differences and race issues, BUT since we don't know how to deal with them, we refuse to accept that these race issues exist.

Bruce@Cynm 9/2/2009 12:46:20 PM
I agree. The ANC falls short when it comes to balancing commitment to the Freedom Charter/constitution and maintaining political support which is easy to wind up simply by stirring the race-pot. I believe they have an intent to move forward on the issue, but their inability to silence the likes of hate-mongering Malema belies a different agenda. JZ has the ability to communicate an intolerance for ANY form of racism, but needs to put his money where his mouth is. On the opposite side of the spectrum, this Canadian asylum nonsense does nothing to help the situation.

JB 9/2/2009 12:47:32 PM
The state of racism in South Africa saddens me immensely.It feels like we have regressed by progressing to a whole new level and definition of racism. And I am ashamed that it has even affected me...but I am sick of explaining why I am a valuable African to black people who will never accept the colour of my skin. I understand that this was suffered by Africans for many centuries and is pretty much engrained in their psyche, but I never did it, and neither should they. This si a new era, and if people don't want to let go of the past, then they will live in it as well. Why do this, when there is a whole colourful future waiting? But this is of course 'pie-in-the-sky'' idealism and maybe its time to make peace with the fact that hey, it was nice while it lasted for those 8 or so years...

BJL 9/2/2009 1:01:37 PM
The problem with our country is not necessarily racism, but rather the distorted view that whites are the main perpetrators of racism, the denial of legalised reverse racism, and an abundance of political correctness by politicians such as his holiness, saint Max du Preex.

Paul Bethke 9/2/2009 1:02:37 PM
"But I have asserted a firm conviction - a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people - that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice if we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.


What is FAITH IN GOD---That is that everyone stops lying stealing and committing adultery---That is the beginning.---Then again what God –There appears to be many gods?
Obama’s God?
The God of Israel ?
The God of Islam?

Max your article is based on sentiment.
We are of different faith that is why we differ.
Over three hundred thousand different Christian denominations—they don’t agree!
Catholics –Protestants kill each other.

The only way in which unity in faith will occur is as Zuma says –
The ANC will rule ONLY until the Son of Man appears.

khami 9/2/2009 1:07:48 PM
J Zee reflect values of a new order,just like mandela and obama.he reach out to everybody irrespective of colour,party or sex. He take shots from leaders who still see colours,good example..he has been blamed for appointing ministers of colours ,blammed for appointing more women in cabinet.He reach out to leftists the same way with rightist in political arena.He has been even attacked for practising poligamy which is zulu tradition-by people who undermine cultures of others,but its never racism issue,its lack of information from certain parts of community. south africa is on the right track , we should just tackle poverty, crime and bring the most awaited free and equal quality education for all.

SA optimist 9/2/2009 1:08:28 PM
I was very glad to see these articles (your's and Thamm's). I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed. As a young white person, I find that I have to force myself to speak up when that casual racism rears its head in conversation. It can be really awkward in certain social situations, but it is at least one way of signaling to others that their statements are not widely held or believed by all whites. I would urge others to do the same. I am also sorry to see how defensive white people have become (one sees a lot of that here on the comments pages). If we all opened our hearts, and put ourselves in the shoes of others, it would really help. I see a lot of positive relationships between white and black South Africans (for example, in my office), but this is marred by those (white and black) who are struggling to adapt and change. When we're a great country, we're really GREAT! Let's try to build on the positive, and look at the negative in a constructive way, without feeling scared.

Nathi 9/2/2009 1:16:17 PM
Quotes of Obama are fine but we should not forget that Zuma himself has talked many times about racism in SA. For example, after UFS incident, he said "what happened at the university last week is a stark reminder to all of us that you cannot defeat racism overnight. It is a struggle that we must all wage collectively to build a non-racial society. Also said after his election:"South Africans need to start a new, more positive, debate about race to clear the air. The mistake made after pressing for reconciliation in the beginning was that they did not continue talking about it". Then Max,Zuma has spoken! Racism is wide in all racial groups.I had tears in my eyes recently when my 11yrs old boy said at school a girl about his age said:"we don't like black people but we like u bcos u're brown not black".Education at home?

Fly 9/2/2009 1:22:14 PM
I think it will take a couple of South African generations to change racism in this country. WE are not the people to change SA, but work on it we must. Respect for each other- if we can master that, we'll be able to look beyond skin colour and see the guy next to you as a just a human. But it's payback to the white man for his farther and forefather's mistakes. I couldn't even vote in 1994 or prior, cause I was just finishing school. But I'm paying the price for being white in the black people's SA - It does not feel like my South Africa as well. But then agian it could not have felt like their country for the oppressed during apartheid. There is no equal opportunity for everyone - just like during apartheid. "The tables have turned- it's our country now". How many times have you heard polititians say that? MANY. A college proffessor from the eastern cape said on a radio station a few weeks before the election that white people are colonialists and should pack up and leave the country for europe. A college professor!!! How can we heal a nation with "junior leaders" filling the youth with such stirring words? Maybe if we had better leadership who could look beyond race like Obama.

GP 9/2/2009 1:29:55 PM
Are we sometime going to have a gender debate too?

Peace 9/2/2009 1:51:42 PM
It's time we take responsibility for ourselves and stop waiting for "leaders" to do or say something.

It's the little things we do on a daily basis that matter - how we treat fellow human beings, how we help and support people who are less fortunate than us, etc. Too much focus on what leaders do take away our responsibility as individuals and make us feel like we are helpless little people. It doesn’t matter what Obama, Zuma or any leader says. Speeches are just words, which if not translated to action by citizens will be meaningless. At the end of the day it’s our actions that will make a difference.ays

Good people, stop this fixation with Julius Malema. If he talks nonsense we have a choice to ignore him. If you give him mattention then everything he says become “important”. Some of the things he say are not representative of how the majority of SAns feel about each other.

SA is still a young country; and we are still learning to live amongst each other as equals. We come from a history that emphasized our differences and used that to encourage racial discrimination. There is no magic wand that will make those attitudes disappear overnight. It will take patience and tolerance from all sides to get to a point where race doesn't matter. We are far from being there yet. It's a generational thing.

I make a conscious effort everyday not to see race. It’s not easy because we have to unlearn many things we have been “indoctrinated” with. I suggest we all do the same and forget about pointing fingers. That will take us nowhere. Meantime we are all in this together. We can’t wish anyone away.

Barry 9/2/2009 1:52:09 PM
We run a small family business and employ eight black employees. We have never had racial issues amongst any of them even during times when they had reason to be upset with white clients.
I put this down to the fact that we all strive to work in harmony with each other and treat each other with dignity and respect.
On the other side of the coin, our domestic helper has worked for us for close on 18 years in which we used to injoy the same relationship. Two years ago she got remarried to a man who is a senior member of the National Union of Mine Workers. Since then the relationship has deteriorated to such an extent that it will become necessary to dismiss her. She has accused us on numerous accasions of being white racists because we only supply her with one meal a day(which come off our table), her annual increase for the past few years has only averaged out at 11% and her leave bonus which has never been less than her monthly salary is to meager. This tells a story doesn't it.

Barry 9/2/2009 1:54:44 PM
We run a small family business and employ eight black employees. We have never had racial issues amongst any of them even during times when they had reason to be upset with white clients.
I put this down to the fact that we all strive to work in harmony with each other and treat each other with dignity and respect.
On the other side of the coin, our domestic helper has worked for us for close on 18 years in which we used to injoy the same relationship. Two years ago she got remarried to a man who is a senior member of the National Union of Mine Workers. Since then the relationship has deteriorated to such an extent that it will become necessary to dismiss her. She has accused us on numerous accasions of being white racists because we only supply her with one meal a day(which come off our table), her annual increase for the past few years has only averaged out at 11% and her leave bonus which has never been less than her monthly salary is to meager. This tells a story doesn't it.

White Guy 9/2/2009 2:05:43 PM
why

MLS 9/2/2009 2:05:58 PM
I think that racism is ingrained in the psyches of most South Africans of all races, particularly those who lived through the years of Apartheid. I agree with Landl that we should be honest with ourselves and try to move on. I am encouraged by the fact that racism does not seem to be so prevalent in the younger generation (judging by the inter-racial friendships being formed amongst school children). As parents we have a responsibility to bring us our children to respect people of all races or ethnic backgrounds, without blame, fear, victimhood or prejudice. Hopefully, our 'Obama' will rise from the ranks of our current youth. However, Julius Malema is not a suitable leader for our youth, and will do a lot of damage if he is not stopped NOW!

Fred 9/2/2009 2:47:51 PM
Our government had ample time to “get things right”. Unfortunately the gap between us is just too big to narrow sufficiently in a few short decades. Just go read http://www.news24.com/Content/MyNews24/YourStory/1162/1f7b70dd246b4d50904d45b40ed57d78/31-07-2009%2012-07/Why_is_Africa_such_a_mess#

citing you, max 9/2/2009 3:10:14 PM
current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past - are real and must be addressed

WAM 9/2/2009 3:12:12 PM
when will we be south africans (when as in just about every comment made above we no longer place our selves into groups of white black coloured or indian but call ourselves africans)why not we have americans europeans asians austrelaisions why not africans BECOME AN AFRICAN

Jack Daniels 9/2/2009 3:24:01 PM
No contact what so ever with a dysfuntional society......that's what the outside world should do to bring this country back to the fold of civilised nations, it worked before with the sports boycott.....this isn't about race anymore it's about survival for all South Africans, the seeds of revolution are being planted right now we may not see the 2014 elections but instead fighting a civil war think about that the clock is ticking.

bernard 9/2/2009 3:29:38 PM
People like Malema have a complex of inferiority towards white people, it´s more a psycholgical problem than a politic issue. Malema try to over-compensate for feelings of inferiority by going to great extremes.

bernard 9/2/2009 3:30:49 PM
People like Julius Malema have a complex of inferiority towards white people, it´s more a psycholgical problem than a politic issue. Malema try to over-compensate for feelings of inferiority by going to great extremes.

Mzekezeke @ MLS 9/2/2009 3:54:20 PM
I agree with you totally. My 14 year old daughter does not know what apartheid is. When she's invited to a party she does not state the colour of her friend. Ditto when she invites her friends. She has never complained about being racially abused. That tells you something about the new generation. Hope is still there.

saproudly 9/2/2009 3:56:01 PM
Problem is that the whites in this country still believe in that their the superior race (and they show this everyday consciously or unconsciously, subtle and blatant). Nothing can be done right without them. And this is the majority feeling amongst the circles in the suburbs.

saproudly 9/2/2009 4:06:12 PM
Problem is that the whites in this country still believe in that their the superior race (and they show this everyday consciously or unconsciously, subtle and blatant). Nothing can be done right without them. And this is the majority feeling amongst the circles in the suburbs.

OK 9/2/2009 4:06:44 PM
A very balanced quality. Thank Max

Zak 9/2/2009 4:29:23 PM
Thanks Max...I have been out of South Africa since 2005 working and researching in Asia, specifically China and Vietnam. The one thing that has really struck me quite significantly about these two Asian nations is the lengths that the governments go to in enhancing social harmony. Make no mistake, there are certainly grievances and protests here too, but by and large people of many different minorities, much, much more than in SA, live together and tolerate one another in a very visible way. During my time spent here, it is certainly an eye opening experience each day to observe the national unity ethos of the people. Although they come from different minority groupings, they are first Chinese or Vietnamese. The governments of these countries, I believe, are the facilitators of this way of thinking. Whilst it is not a bad thing for SA to look toward western countries for examples of social harmony, I can say with conviction, that very few come close to these Asian countries, and for sure SA could take a page from the example set here. SA is a country with so much potential and so much to offer its people without any one group ever having to dominate the other. It is, in my mind, exactly this "group jockeying" for position and domination that makes us lose sight of the vision of a truly united SA. Having spent almost 5 years in SE Asia, studying the culture and customs of the people, has really given me a new perspective on how I perceive people and the world around me in general. Indeed, on return to SA in 2010, I aim to grasp every opportunity to preach the word of unity and focus on exploring the neglected potential of each and every South African. I am a proud South African, but had to leave the country for a period of time, to gain different cultural perspectives and views on how people go about their daily lives. One thing is certain in my view, and that is that no one, regardless of race, ethnicity or grouping in any country, and especially in SA, should ever be given the ammunition, if you wish, to say, "I am at a disadvantage in my country because of my race or ethnic group". Governments can never eradicate, racism as such, but they certainly can create an environment of social harmony through their legislative processes and, indeed, their practices and examples they set. When SA arrives at this point, and I believe we will, the opportunities are endless in terms of personal and National growth for all its citizens. Most importantly, when the environment is conducive to social harmony, the hearts of men change....this is and should be our key ambition for SA.

Blixum 9/2/2009 8:11:24 PM
Don't forget Maxi, that Obama was elected by white voters. Democrazy will work for me if the black voters of this country one day vote an efficient and capable white person into the presidency. Then we can truely say that our voters have become mature and that demcracy works for all. (and that racism has been buried)

Rusie 9/3/2009 1:15:16 AM
Look lets put things aside. he did what he needed to do. The biggest problem in SA is Crime and Corruption. No matter who kills who, Think of all the farmers who have died on their farms. These are the people who feed this nation. Do they derserve it just because they employed black labour. Think of the families who have been killed outside their homes while coming home after a long day to find someone in the their yard or house. whats this all about. Do we have safety on our own land. The Gov has to look into this type of crime and also the corrupt offcials. No wonder Company owners dont wanna pay full taxes because it all goes to officials who give nothing back to its citizen's. Poverty stems from the fact that no system was ever inplace to correct this. Poverty leads to crime. crime leads to a safety of citezens. What are the stats between white crime and black crime. only once we see these stats would we be able to see what the real problem is.

Wayne 9/3/2009 2:43:40 AM
Schools in the USA were desegregated in the 1960's. Black Americans have had the vote since 1865.
Methinks that Mr Obama has selective thought on the haves and have nots issue. In relaity is all boils down to the fundamental differences between the useless and lazy and the go getters. You decide for yourselves where you want to place the different racial groups....

no name 9/3/2009 3:35:51 AM
is this year 2005 or 2006 ,it looks like this year is very very orange. i do listen very well or some damages or something.and i do read text from music chanel. i keep them company very well.my be im wrong.i some people who are texting do throw eggs on my face alot.or MAYBE IM ONOTHER ONOTHER EGGY AS THEY ALWAYS LABEL WE SOUTHENERS. CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU ALL OUTHER LOVE YOU ALWAYS.

willy 9/3/2009 1:22:00 PM
Interesting that OBAMA never said a word about the American Indian, the people who were in the country before either the white or the negro arrived there. OBAMA is half black and half white - or does his mother not count? However, in the RSA the white minority is steadily becoming an oppressed minority whose minority rights are simply ignored and trampled by the majority in the name of "correcting past injustices". Max himself is a great exponent of recalling the past "injustices" and excusing the present injustices as if two wrongs can make one right. Coming from the "moral high grounders" I find this very amusing. Unless and untill the blacks in this country give the whites the credit and respect they deserve for all the good they did in the past and stop moaning about the wrongs and blaming all their ineptness on "the legacy of apartheid" the future is bleak. I believed in the old days that a black majority government would be inevitable and I knew many educated and decent black people and then trusted that they would have learnt from the mistakes of their liberated neigbours up North but no, they did not, they repeated them and by their conduct are now alienating me and other whites who feel that they have become unwanted, in fact some ministers actually said it quite clearly - Africa for the Africans - so where does that leave you, Max?

Voice of reason 9/3/2009 3:02:46 PM
Honesty is a very scarce commodity amongst human beings and that is what is killing a mature debate on race. First off anybody saying one race is better than the other is dishonesty in the worst possible way, We have Amin and Hitler, Al capone and any one of the many african strong men, .....and on and on.... for very dubious crime or evil committed by a white person you will find the equivalent by a black person.......after all words like rape, incest, thuggery lazines,corruption, greed, witchcraft, rouges,exist in the english languge why?... well you guessed it english people can be discribed by them thats why...they did not evolve in africa..needless to say you will find thier african equivalents. Today many white south Africans are in trouble, not because of insecurity, not because of incompetent black government but because of bad lending practices by banks run by ...well your right again greedy white people and you can follow that trail up tp new york. So lets be honest, lets get rid of the bad people black or white and lets appreciate that black people in this country have had it bad and all of us black and white must help them, and in the short run it may cost the white people some of the advantages they now enjoy. Its all about being honest, the world is not a pefect place, we wish there had not been apartheid but it was, we wish its problems could be solved quickly without white peole feling guilty but sadly it may not. It may not be your doing....but few workable options exist and one of them is not pretending that there is someting inherently wrong with black people.

Thomas@saproudly 9/3/2009 9:16:11 PM
yeeeess! And your point is?

G 9/3/2009 9:29:59 PM
Great statesman and person and my hat goes off to Obama, but sadly our South African leadership does not see both sides of the coin, only that of payback against the whites and that will never cease.It is easy to say be positive and make good contributions and make racist claims against the white community-but here is the question...Why are we not after such a long time of independence forgetting past mistakes, as is the case in America etc where race is a lesser issue?....Because verybody has the same right without bias bacause of their skincolour and perpetual AA and BEE that is now simply used to weaken the strong economy and give power to who-ever wants to be in positions without reaaly making use of opportunisties to learn and word hard to achieve greatness.If some of these people get the jobs they cry so much about, they seem to mostly fail in the willingness to perform the tasks expected when doing the job.We all know the problem and please don't be blind to that.It's a fact...

G 9/3/2009 9:32:32 PM
Great statesman and person and my hat goes off to Obama, but sadly our South African leadership does not see both sides of the coin, only that of payback against the whites and that will never cease.It is easy to say be positive and make good contributions and make racist claims against the white community-but here is the question...Why are we not after such a long time of independence forgetting past mistakes, as is the case in America etc where race is a lesser issue?....Because verybody has the same right without bias bacause of their skincolour and perpetual AA and BEE that is now simply used to weaken the strong economy of South Africa and give power to who-ever wants to be in positions without realy making use of opportunisties to learn and work hard to achieve greatness.If some of these people get the jobs they cry so much about, they seem to mostly fail in the willingness to perform the tasks expected when doing the job.They simply want the money, but not really the work.We all know the problem and please don't be blind to that.It's a fact...

Ron McGregor 9/5/2009 6:32:56 AM
Racism isn't the problem. It's just an emotion, and probably very normal. What is crucial is what people do, not what they think. Frankly, if Julius Malema hates me because I am white, and because I think he's an idiot, it really doesn't matter. He cannot stop me from going about my normal business. So we should learn to ignore his racist invective. And we should also learn from his example. If you use unkind language about other races, you become thoroughly disliked by them. So Julius Malema (and many others) are regarded as utterly worthless human beings by all except their own kind. Therefore, if we whites do not curb our tongues, we must not be surprised if we then become regarded as utterly useless human beings by all except OUR own kind. Now, read again what I have just written, and you will see that, although I have made my point, I have already ensured that, by saying nasty things about a very popular black leader, I will continue to be reviled by the very people I should be trying to win over. It's a perfect example of a Catch 22.

Francoais 9/6/2009 4:58:28 PM
The problem I see and experience with President Obama is that it seem that black people feel the world own them a living. After more than +- 45 years of independance Africa is still asking for help. How is it they we do not look at history and see what have happened during the last 45 years. At present, won't it have been better to just keep all that knew what to do and let them teach the new generation. Instead of blaming all on the previous regime or rasisim. Which we will always have.

Dichaba 9/7/2009 9:31:51 AM
But what is "casual racism" or what is causal about it?

LK 9/8/2009 6:40:35 PM
For me the greatest stumbling block in "uniting" black & white race in South Africa is simple. How many white people out there actually believe what was done to Black people in SA was criminal\wrong. How many of them actually believe not all Black people are the same in behaviour and intelligence; how many of them actually believe due to demographics in SA there's a whole lot of capable\intelligent Black people in comparison to White people(i am talking purely numbers here) i am asking all this because as a White person you should be able to walk back into your job and realise there is something wrong with the representation of white people at top; u need to be able to see that it does not make sense that most of the so called performers are white. because if you cannot see this; u r still blind to what happenned here in SA; and u shouldn't be surprised to be labelled racist; because while in your own mind u r not, ur behaviour reflects differently. For years and years SA government actively made u believe that as white u r superior to the other races; trust me until u actively work(this means challenging ur own views on black people) towards changing the way u look at black people u will remain racist. Hopefully u r not passing ur racists thoughts onto ur kids.

Anon1 @ Nathi 9/9/2009 2:46:29 PM
Yes JZ has spoken about racism, but only whn it is white on black and only when it is committed by individuals. Where minestas in government and MALema spews hatred, then he is dead silent, that is the problem. I will believe he is genuine when he starts taking his own organisation on when they incite hatred between racial groups. Fact is the ANC needs racism alive for them to be voted in again - just shout "wit gevaar" and they get the votes!

Anon1 @ LK 9/9/2009 2:55:27 PM
I do fully agree that there is a lot of capable black professionals in SA that do deserve to be where they are on merit. The problem however are the numerous examples of unqualified and inexperienced PDI's that were put in positions that they were not capable of doing the job. It is so true what is said that it takes 1 negative incident to create a perception, there are many in SA, does not matter that are 10 examples of success.

Mr Drew 9/11/2009 5:34:42 PM
I just want to get my daughter as far away as possible from this poisonous debate about race. It just makes animals out of human beings.

Mr Drew 9/11/2009 5:34:48 PM
I just want to get my daughter as far away as possible from this poisonous debate about race. It just makes animals out of human beings.
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