Johannesburg

Monday

Scattered showers. Morning clouds. Mild.

15°C
26°C

7 day forecasts
Prince Mashele

Confronting the Great Divide

2009-06-22 11:41

A century from now, those seeking to know whether post-apartheid South Africa's historic mission was a success or not will tell mainly on the basis of our current, collective ability to bridge the great divide: the gulf between various strata of our society.

In the 18th century, David Hume, in a finely constructed passage entitled "Of Essay Writing" said the following:

THE elegant part of mankind, who are not immersed in mere animal life, but employ themselves in the operations of the mind, may be divided into the learned and the conversable. The learned are such as have chosen for their portion the higher and more difficult operations of the mind, which require leisure and solitude ... The conversable world join to a sociable disposition, and a taste for pleasure ... (David Hume, 1996, Selected Essays, p1)

You need not possess quixotic intellectual qualities to discern and be offended by Hume's arrogant dismissal of the category of human beings he describes as "immersed in animal life". But you still cannot take away the aptness of his observation regarding what he terms the "learned" and the "conversable".

Hume was absolutely right to describe the "learned" as people whose lives are characterised by solitude. These are people who spend their time in study rooms, laboratories and behind closed office doors; reading books, inventing artefacts, innovating various technologies or hatching out profound ideas. In today's South Africa, we do have people in this category, albeit small in number.

The "conversable" are also a ubiquitous phenomenon in our society. They are fun-lovers who spend time drinking with friends and entertain a variety of social topics that the "learned" deem trivial. After work, or on weekends, the "conversable" criss-cross towns, villages and townships enjoying themselves as if tomorrow was their last day of existence. These are hedonists par excellence!

Same social space

Both the "learned" and the "conversable" deride each other in ways that reinforce and widen the chasm betwixt them. The "learned" think that the "conversable" waste invaluable time immersed in unproductive routines. On their part, the "conversable" dismiss the "learned" as vain people who take themselves too seriously.

Their mutual derision notwithstanding, both the "learned" and the "conversable" - including the rich - occupy the same social space. They live in leafy suburbs, and they are the economic beneficiaries of the post-apartheid democratic dispensation. While people in these strata constantly complain about racism and other forms of discrimination, objective reality renders it necessary for them to intercourse in their daily affairs.

If the "learned", the "conversable" and the rich were the only citizens of our country, the story of South Africa would, to future generations, read like a tale of roses. For they all live in situations of relative comfort.

Indeed, the divide amongst the "learned", the "conversable" and the rich is not suitable to be called the "great divide". The great divide is rather the gap between these strata - as a collective category - and the poor and toiling workers (as a distinct stratum of society). History's judgment day will be about whether or not, in our time, we were able to make a dent in this great divide.

In order for us to fully appreciate the width of the great divide, we must first examine and comprehend the nature of the divide. This requires that black and white South Africans put aside the racial blinkers that lead to chimerical conclusions about the nature of our society today.

Because the black middle class are now a palpable reality, most whites in our society tend to pass on the responsibility of bridging the great divide to blacks who appear successful. "Let them help their own people," some might say!

On their part, blacks who have "made it" continue to blame whites for the misery of those who languish in poverty. By so doing, the reality that, objectively, these blacks have now been sucked into the very socio-economic trappings designed by apartheid's social engineers gets eclipsed.

Deal with the divide

While affluent whites and blacks continue to point fingers at each other, the great divide also widens its yawn. Black and white elites withdraw further into a private sub-state, leaving the public space to be occupied by the poor and toiling workers.

Even as the elite pretend to be indifferent to the public space they have deserted, they continue to be seriously troubled by statements occasionally made by leaders in the public realm. When trade unions call upon their members to picket, each time the Monitory Policy Committee convenes, the elite grumble: "Do these Neanderthals want to take over the running of our Reserve Bank!"

Our elite may, like David Hume, label those who occupy public spaces as people who are "immersed in mere animal life", but this will not narrow the great divide. All it will do is further sharpen contradictions between the haves and the have-nots.

If they hope to secure space in history among those who would have made a positive contribution to bridging the great divide, the elite of our country - both black and white - must begin seriously to explore practical ways of dealing with the divide. They should stop behaving like the "learned" and the "conversable", who constantly exchange mutual derision.

When the elite send their children to good private schools, while the sons and daughters of the poor do not progress due to a dysfunctional public schooling system, we must rest assured that the ills that characterise our society today will still be the face of our country in years to come. Thus must it become the interest of those who can afford private education to support and advocate for a better functioning public schooling system. It is the mastery of this social dialectic that will rescue this country from the abyss.

Only until we have all adopted this kind of thinking and begin to take practical steps in that direction shall we, a century from now, satisfy those who seek to know if post-apartheid South Africa's historic mission was a success or not.

- Mashele is Head of Crime, Justice and Politics Programme at the Institute for Security Studies. He writes in his personal capacity.

Send your comments to Prince

Disclaimer: News24 encourages freedom of speech and the expression of diverse views. The views of columnists published on News24 are therefore their own and do not necessarily represent the views of News24.

- News24

Add your view to this conversation - comment below

Comment on this story


PP 6/22/2009 12:11:42 PM
What I have always wondered is why do people have to mention their position and then "write in their own capacity". You do not need to flush ones position for one to make sense!!
Good article overall

Sam 6/22/2009 12:44:12 PM
Wow what an article, i hope 'the elite' are reading this

A-man 6/22/2009 12:50:35 PM
Confronting the Great Divide is itself a quixotic endeavor. However we need to try if we don't want to keep on repeating the same old crap.

BLACKsoWHAT! 6/22/2009 1:01:17 PM
ANC and the "Masses" bashing on the way....

jenny 6/22/2009 1:02:49 PM
Prince, I always enjoy your articles, but it is now 15 years since the ANC took over. This is no longer a middle class issue - but a GVT issue. 8 million cannot support 42 million and that is the bottom line. Middle Class is helpless and overwhelmed -not pointing fingers as you say!! What has GVT done to control the birth rate, educate the people so they can empower themselves, stop Aids, stop Crime etc. Until GVT addresses these issues, the middle class can do little more than support the odd charity (and maybe get involved with "doing good" – I teach adult literacy classes) while powerlessly standing at the edge of the bottomless pit dug by the poor masses that GVT is failing

Yvonne 6/22/2009 1:06:07 PM
A well written piece. BUT it also NOT the job of the white and black elite to prop up the masses like the government does with grants and handouts. Good education is top priority, but is it not a fact that those who can afford to pay for this have two MAYBE 3 children and a family environment-FATHER and MOTHER and a disciplined home environment. How can a 1 man with a couple of wives and dozen of children ever expect to do this. No, It is irresponsibility and stupid culture traditions that have placed them there in the first place.Jut zip up the pants and move on the next woman and more children. Many of the masses have TOO many children, NO FATHERS present, Different fathers for virtually every child- absent fathers WHO DO NOT PAY for their offspring and expect the socalled ELITE to do so via their TAXES to the GOVERNMENT and then the mothers get grants and keep on having children for more grants etc. BIRTH CONTROL is free - so STOP GIVING GRANTS, IF THEY GET GRANTS ALREADY it shows they cannot afford further children. - THEN STERILISATION MUST BE A PREREQUISITE FOR ANY FURTHER GRANT .YOU SHOULD NOT GIVE BIRTH TO CHILDREN IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO LOOK AFTER THEM,GIVE THEM A HOME, A FATHER AND EDUCATION UNTIL THEY ARE ADULTS -NO EXCUSE! there is sterilisation and FREE birth control- BUT NO- why work if you do not need to! STOP PROPPING UP THESE PEOPLE!
STERILISE THEM OR NO GRANTS!Look at children, students that vandalise schools, colleges, Universities etc, check their backgrounds. They already have the attitude of just DEMANDING, THEIR SO CALLED RIGHTS ETC.NO RESPECT FOR PROPERTY BECAUSE THEY HAVE NEVER HAD TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR UPKEEP, CHORES AT HOME, RULES AND REGULATIONS ETC. THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR NOTHING AND EVEN LESS FOR THEMSELVES. GO TO THE FR EAST AND LEARN FROM THOSE PEOPLE! THE IS NO PROP UPS AND NO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND NO BEE and on top of it LOWERING STANDARDS TO TRY AND PROP Up PEOPLE WHO JUST EXPECT CONTINUOUS HAND OUTS. THEY HAVE THE SAME RIGHT TO VOTE ETC. SO THEY MUST ALSO START HELPING THEMSELVES AND THEIR RESORT TO BURNING TYRES/STONING AND RAMPAGING IF THEY DO NOT GET THEIR WAY MUST NOT BE TOLERATED - CIVILISED PEOPLE DO NOT ACT THIS WAY - SO THEY MUST FIRTLY BE CIVILISED BEFORE YOU CAN DO ANYTHING WITH SUCH PEOPLE WHO HAVE THAT KIND OF MENTALITY.

kgomotso motlogeloa 6/22/2009 1:14:29 PM
wow.well said...why can we not publish your article outside all stadiums,schools, universities etc...well written,thoughtful and a very morally non discriminatry piece of reasoning.God Bless you son.Your writing will probably send shrivers down the spines of those it targets...it makes them understand and in their ignorance examine their near imoral judgement of each other.

overseas

Anon 6/22/2009 1:23:36 PM
Grants should be given to a max of 2 children per family. If you want more, then you need to pay for them!

SS 6/22/2009 1:44:43 PM
SHAME ON YOU YVONNE. I just wonder who are "these people". You have too much issues and I advise you get HELP soon...

Interested reader 6/22/2009 1:57:58 PM
It may sound cliche to suggest this is one of the best I've read. Crisp language and lucid!

The observation on the state of our society is correct. There are multiple divides, and largely anchored around the historical legacy of black and white - blacks being largely poor and trapped in difficult social conditions; and whites' affluence largely a progency of the privileges of the past or, at least, the conditions created by the past apartheid system.

True, it will not help to harp on this as it does not move society forward. But it also will not take us forward to deny history; there is always a risk of repeat.

Even if we were to forget about the racial categories and simply ask a question: Is it healthy for society to have sharp inequalities and high levels of poverty of the kind we find here in South Africa? What are the consequences? And how do we go about solving these, irrespective of who is responsible?

We would be deceiving ourselves to think there will not be consequences for our children. If we think that those who are confined in tin shacks, harrowed by unimaginable forms of insecurities, and languishing in poverty and unemployment will simply accept their fate in a sort of eternal resignation we better think again. There is an important, if not central, role for education, but the results of this are long-term. It would be the worst form of self-deception to place all our hope on education and then go on with life, indifferently, as usual. In his stellar work, 'The Culture of Contentment', John K. Galbraith warns of the consequences for the future generations. He makes frightening allusions to the cauldron of discontent that may affect our children. This work, which I highly reccommend, is a wake up call for the middle classes. If nothing is done today, nothing will happen tomorrow. Prince could have taken the narrative to its logical, and I dare say, catastrophic conclusion. What a perceptive piece Mashele produced!

Jon 6/22/2009 2:08:17 PM
Hi Prince - you are part of this so called "Elite" you just described. what is your plan of action to share YOUR money? Or will someone else do it?
@Sam - you obviously have a computer and internet which makes you elite as well. What are YOU going to do about it? It is quite clear that most people here (few exceptions) dont give a **** about those less fortunate. Are there any ANC supporters here who have actually helped your fellow SAfrican out of trouble, Black & White? Instead of being outwardly defyant towards every1 like they owe you. And how do you help someone who point blankly refuses your aid or grumbles when you give them some help? Every1 has longer to go than I thought. GOD help us. We really need it.

bj 6/22/2009 2:27:25 PM
Yvonne, quite the rant. Though I do agree with the birth control part. Poverty will never be eradicated as long as the poor have such a large birth rate. The rich have less children in general. This means the numbers who remain in a position of wealth will decrease compared to those who are poor. People should not be having more children then they can afford. This includes feeding clothing and providing them a decent education. Not to mention the effects of population growth on the enviroment in general. This is a world wide problem that is at the root cause of most of the other problems. This is the real issue that needs addressing. Perhaps China's one child policy is the way to go worldwide. At least until population levels are reduced and then stabalised.

YesMan 6/22/2009 2:31:30 PM
Mr Mashele:
I am sure that in 100 years time you will be hailed as one of the great philosophers of our time. Your intellect surpasses that of mine, your colleagues and the general public by immeasurable lengths. However, I believe that you may still need to free yourself from the liberal propaganda that infests so many great minds of our time. Liberalism is now an outdated political philosophy that needs to be left in the late 1900's, being the time during which it was still a relevant and a helpful school of thought to adress the issues of that time. Nowadays, as you will be aware of, there is a sure move away from the constraints of liberalism and rather towards a more relevant and realistic school of thought, namely that of a realism of sorts, branded conservatism by liberals. It might seem to be an abomination in the eyes of a liberal, but it only seems so to such an individual because the liberal has not freed his/her mind from the years of indoctrination suffered under liberalism. If one can manage to free your mind and explore the gems that 'conservatism', or rather realism, has to offer, you would find that it is not a cardinal sin to consider for one moment that all these anomalies and complications brought to our country by British Liberalism, may possibly be overcome by being realistic. Consider, if you can, the possibility of every group in South Africa governing themselves as sovereign entities, but still as friendly allies, and thereby being able to tackle the divides in their respective homogenous societies with regards to social imbalances in a much simpler manner. I am afraid that entertaining such a thought would mean betraying your liberal instincts, but once you manage to do that, you will see a world of a far simpler philosophy unfolding in front of you - a world where these complex issues can be adressed in a logical manner by a homogenous society, instead of a world where every solution brings 50 more complications (a world we cannot escape in our current complex society). I repeat that i respect your contributions and your ability to convey your message in your second language. I am still working on that from my side. Dankie vir jou bydrae.

dryden helling 6/22/2009 2:39:38 PM
I love your work Prince.So crisp and devoid of any baggage.Very intelligent and insightful.Head and shoulders above anyone else.

Phinah 6/22/2009 2:44:02 PM
I read the article 3 times, very interesting indeed. Good Work! I sit true that you used to advise Thabo Mbeki at some point, Did you ever mention the contents of this article to him. Surely he would have done something. Education must be a priority & our people must start taking responsibility for their actions

Irma 6/22/2009 2:48:29 PM
Yvonne's vitriolic diatribe offered below stands in sharp contrast to to Prince's thoughtful piece to which she is responding, and actually goes against the very spirit of his argument. Rather than bridging any divides, this kind of sloppy 'argument' or viscious, a-historical analysis does not bridge any divide. Rather, it helps to erode the divide further so that there will be nothing left to do but to stare down in the abyss. Societies are fragile things; ask anyone in the Balkan states, the Caucausus, etc. We should not talk to each other as if the delicate social fabric that holds this society together cannot at some point completely fall apar. I do not know you, Yvonne, and I weill refrain from judging your character. Your comments, however, do not seem to be the outcome of a process of reflection in which you gave serious consideration about how to take this debate forward. Rather, you prefer to dump your feeling on the page, taking refuge in sweeping generalisations (since when are all middle class families ideal type, wholesome nuclear families? Do you have any idea of the rate of divorce in the coubntry? Moreover, your argument is located in a historical vacuum, as if colonialism and apartheid never took place. Your suggestion about sterilisation reminds me of the disastrous project around eugenics - and of the horrific way in which it ended. Finally, you address the unemployed with no respect whatsoever, failing to acknowledge that many people are doing a marvelous job of surviving and bringing up children against the odds. There is no sense in romanticising South Africa's poor; and I do not do that. No community (in the broad sense of the word) can get anywhere without accepting some responsibility for their future - even when their present conditions have been created by unjust processes that were shaoed by other powers. Nonethelss, your inability to place yourself in someone elses shoes, the chauvinism of your piece, and the disrespectful way in which you take a swipe at cultures other than your own angers me. This form of argumnet in indeed a disgrace in a society that sees itself as 'civilised'. Who is the barbarian now?

Dries 6/22/2009 3:04:14 PM
Me thinks the "GREAT DIVIDE" will live a long and happy live as long as a minority of the population is blamed for the woes of the majority. It did not work in NAZI Germany why would it here?

Stryder 6/22/2009 3:44:14 PM
We need to stop bailing these poor people out. They vote the wrong government into power, then they expect those of us, who voted intelligently, to help them. I have a stock line for beggars. "Who did you vote for?" If they didn't vote or they voted for the ANC then I tell them to ask their local ANC councilor for help.

STOP HELPING THE POOR OR THEY WILL NEVER GO AWAY!!!


Lionel Luthor 6/22/2009 3:45:34 PM
YVONNE: SPOT ON. End of the story. No more to discuss.

NOTBLACKandGrateful 6/22/2009 3:47:48 PM
@BLACKsoWHAT. I don't care if you are balck white or whatever, You will always just be a plain old racist idiot to me.

lloyd macklin 6/22/2009 3:48:36 PM
Prince is clearly well educated and I would not presume to challenge his critique, but I would repond to one comment. He, like so many of the self proclaimed intellectual class, use the term 'leafy suburbs' to describe what are predominantly white suburbs. I don't know if this is meant to be derisive or to imply that the whites took the best areas for their own use.
Simple fact; the whites planted the trees and turned the barren highveld into what is arguably the largest man made forest in the world. The trees were a sign of our long term committment to the land, an appreciation of nature and a willingness to improve on what we found.
Sadly, one only needs to look around to realise that this appreciation of nature is not shared by the masses. For all the faults that can be attributed to whites the fact that they are producers rather than consumers cannot be denied.

lloyd macklin 6/22/2009 3:50:55 PM
Prince is clearly well educated and I would not presume to challenge his critique, but I would repond to one comment. He, like so many of the self proclaimed intellectual class, use the term 'leafy suburbs' to describe what are predominantly white suburbs. I don't know if this is meant to be derisive or to imply that the whites took the best areas for their own use.
Simple fact; the whites planted the trees and turned the barren highveld into what is arguably the largest man made forest in the world. The trees were a sign of our long term committment to the land, an appreciation of nature and a willingness to improve on what we found.
Sadly, one only needs to look around to realise that this appreciation of nature is not shared by the masses. For all the faults that can be attributed to whites the fact that they are producers rather than consumers cannot be denied.

Not Yet That Brave 6/22/2009 4:04:57 PM
while i agree on your point very much in that much of our "history" will be decided on these times, when you say we the "learned" and "conversable" must do something, what about the 40% that the government takes from us with/out our consent? what about the 14% VAT we pay on absoulutely everything that enables us to be "learned" and "conversed"? do you not think that is doing something to help them? or must we firstly fund them, and then go do everything for them aswell???

Jimmy Jackpot 6/22/2009 5:07:30 PM
None of my children go to a fancy private school, but are receiving a good education nonetheless. I do not believe that the wealthy should provide schooling for the poor, the government should do it. The so-called upper class must make their contributions during the elections by voting for that party who will look after the needs of everyone in this country, and not misuse the money to enrich themselves.

RobotFood 6/22/2009 5:22:35 PM
How to bridge the divide? I believe that the bridge can only stand if it is supported on both sides. As part of the elite we have financial, educational and directional obligations. Support and help the poor to uplift them selfs. The obligations of the poor however remains distorted to me. Should there not be an attempt by poor to be less of a burden (reduce children/crime) show eagerness to learn or work. In many individual cases this is indeed happening. However, free grants and houses does not promote self promotion and upliftment, it breeds laziness. How do you teach someone to fish if he is just interested in the free beer? How do you uplift someone who does not want to pick them self up?
To a large extent the elite are forced to participate through taxes, while the poor participated by voting in the elections. It is up to the government to sort out education and jobs. Medical needs, infrastucture will be more simple to attend to if the elite group is larger and the poor are less.

Blixum 6/22/2009 5:52:58 PM
Yvonne: Spot on. However, why do I need a licence to drive a car, a licence to own a gun, etc, but I can have as many children as the government can afford. People should qualify for a licence to earn the right to have a child. As for the article: load of codswallop - way over my head.

Jim 6/22/2009 6:17:06 PM
What a load of hogwash! That we, as disparate as we are intelectually, culturally, morally, etc, must somehow succeed where no others in history has done to "bridge" the divide between dumb and clever, primitive and civilized, etc is LUDICROUS! What s USELESS piece of NON-SENSICAL HOGWASH!

Fraud 6/22/2009 8:51:29 PM
Lloyd...yes your forefathers planted trees etc etc. But you forget that your forefathers chose the best and most fertile land for themselves, and made sure that the black race is entirely dependent on them for everything. Afterall, a prosperous black community would've completely sabotaged the objectives of the architects of apartheid.

Exiled White 6/22/2009 9:22:59 PM
Drastic measures are needed and A plan for prosperity and peace: Meaningful Education..for all who wants it and compulsary Vocational qualification training for those who cant or dont. No one must be allowed to have nothing to do. The Specialists in these fields to be paid by Gov. to educate and train the millions of SA boys and girls through community based schools/universities and colleges. Set these now qualified architects, builders, plumbers, sparky's and administrators to work to build their own communities' homes and infrastuctures under the guiding eys and hands of experts. Three to four years afterward and you will have people properly housed and educated with the resulting prosperity, commerse and industry would have benifitted and crime greatly reduced. It goes without saying that it will cost an enormous amount of money and good will but it will be worth every cent and effort parents and community leaders have to drive this in partnership with coucils and local government. Come on SA demand to be truly free and dont just sit on your back-sides waiting for hand-outs. Force the Gov. to stop employing cronies for jobs they are not qualified to do, demand experts to help steer through this troubled time and you will reap the bennifit. We can go on and on blaming this and that but as Prince so rightly wrote (Not quoting... If nothing is done today then nothing would have changed by tomorrow. All affluent people black and white will continue to live in high security estates totally removed from the real SA and liable to get burgled, attacked and worse. I am returning to SA after having left because of an attempt on my life and threats to my family to try again to make a difference in the country and for the people i so dearly love. Why cant all SA'cans not see where there apathy and unwillingness to reconcile is leading this country? Will it take 300 000 more to be killed/raped and robbed in the next 5 years for your eyes to open? It is your duty and mine to ensure SA does not go the same way as some of our neighbours who refused to build a better life for all.

Morne 6/23/2009 12:14:39 AM
Excellent article. The problems in this country belong to us all. If only we spent as much time on finding solutions as we do on blaming each other for all that is wrong. Unfortunately, no single group - including government - can solve all the problemms of the country.

ayanda ntsho 6/23/2009 1:42:47 AM
Yvonne, you really do need councilling otherwise you are going to die from your self-inflicted stress. Until such time that people like you start respecting themselves, there's no hope for our people. The other commentator who says he/she will only assist people who voted "wisely" like him/her other than voting for the ANC clearly and surely indicates what type of animal we are dealing with here. We appreciate people, across the racial divide who accepts that the rebuilding of this country for all future generations, irrespective of race, is ours together. Those who pass the responsibility to "government" and continue on the side to selfishly enjoy the privileges accorded them by the previous regime will live to regret the day they passed the buck. Remember, the ills that are devastating our country today were never created yesterday, instead over a number of years. We have as society, sadly I must add, our failure to learn from the past. The question we need not only ask, but answer and put measures in place never to have them happen again is "why are we here, how did we get ourselves in this mess"!

brendon 6/23/2009 5:15:51 AM
Prince I salute you for your article,its a very diverse opinion which involves everybody.I think that we should all stop pointing the finger around and look within ourselves for success.we should focus on whats important to us and our families and also build on that for the future.The past is the past and if we continue to remain in that frame of mind we will never have peace,instead troubling and negative thoughts with no ambitions or positivity that will always effect us and eat at our souls.I believe South africa is a beautiful country filled with an infinite amount of potential and thats where our focus should lie,not on our weaknesses but our strengths and not the past but where we see ourselves tomorrow,a month or ten years from now.i think in my opinion its all about elevation if we can corrcet the wrongs in our lives and focus on our problems individually we can achieve anything no matter our social status.Take Madiba eg he should be all of role models because i dont no any other leader that did what he did in that amount of time.??

overseas, a concerned but always optimistic SOUTH AFRICAN

Ben 6/23/2009 6:32:02 AM
Yvonne- I could not have said it better!

Colin 6/23/2009 9:46:50 AM
To Lloyd Macklin:
Please don't fall into the trap - "leafy suburbs" has replaced "mink and manure" as a term of derision by those who deem themselves superior to the "effete" intellectuals ("pointy-headed professors") by being closer to "reality" as represented by the salt of the earth masses (often of which the users of these terms are the self-appointed spokespersons and vanguard).
Look past mere phraseology at the message. In fact Mashele refers to "constantly exchange[ing] mutual derision". His use of the term - whether for effect or unconciously - and your response (while factually correct) illustrate this.
Please reread his last two paragraphs, which I interpret as a challenge to us all to break the vicious circle of poverty.

AJ 6/23/2009 9:58:46 AM
Definately quixotic, people.

AJ @SS 6/23/2009 10:02:59 AM
Why 'shame on you Yvonne' - was there some factual inaccuracies that you disagreed with? Yvonne took the time to elaborate on her thoughts, if you are going to criticise then so should you. I think you are just looking to see something in Yvonne's comment, for the sake of it.

Silver Surfer 6/23/2009 10:34:36 AM
I don't give a rats @rse ! And if the crime stays bad, or my taxes continue to rise, I will simply leave the country. I have NO social responsibility. My taxes get wasted and I don't feel safe in my own home and you want me to do more ?? Maybe the PROVIDERS should be looked after a bit better so that they are in a better position to provide ?

The Most 6/23/2009 10:38:46 AM
@yvonne Lady why don’t you just come out and say it loud “blacks are useless”. Its people like you that are taking this country dawn. Positive minds bring positive results. You complain about everything that the government is doing to eradicate poverty. Remember some of us know apartheid I was there. We were humiliated as a people, you could not even complain about the government; back in the days you knew after writing comments like yours that evening Special branch will be knocking at your door

SIHLE 6/23/2009 10:40:14 AM
well written. if only people could take your advice, SA would definately be judge as a success story in a matter of two decades, but it is sad to state that we are still far from a everlasting success, especially with the sort of descructive critism people have thus far shown.

Sihle 6/23/2009 11:09:43 AM
"No, It is irresponsibility and stupid culture traditions that have placed them there in the first place" yvonne you are a danger to yourself. so who's culture do you think is better and for what good reason. my dear you sound like a lonely old woman who did not get any this morning. maybe it is time for us SA citizen who care about this country to forget about miserable people like yourself

biobot 6/23/2009 11:11:18 AM
Betwixt.

Neil G 6/23/2009 11:18:58 AM
Some intersting thoughts, Prince , and well worth debating. I disagree with you on your point that it should be interest of the privileged to advocate for better functioning public schooling. That should be EVERYONE's interest - including the non-privileged. We have a democratic society where all have a voice. What we lack is to make our leaders accountable for poor service delivery. We don't do that - we just vote the same inefficient people back into power. It is goverment's responsibility to provide opportunity, and is the individual's responsibility to take advantage of available opportunities (many do not)

Gerdus Heyns 6/23/2009 11:23:44 AM
Good article.

I have theory. I don`t think money is the cure that Prince is looking for. Money is a short term solution. I believe that if we realy want a sustainable solution, we have to change te harts of the people. We have to bring back the humanity into sociaty. I have theory that, the day we can bring people to be responsible for themselfs en take account of themself, and put a much higher value on moral standerds and family values....we will see that this gap glosing slowly.

It starts with every parent in every house, to teach the children good moral values and family ethics.

Anon 6/23/2009 11:54:45 AM
@Fraud, not true bud, lesotho, transkei, and the old Bob is some of the most fertile land in SA.

Lewis 6/23/2009 1:44:09 PM
My motto - if I didnt give birth to it, I'm not responsible for it. I pay enough taxes.

Socialistic 6/23/2009 3:44:44 PM
I hate it when the rich/elite always point to the government and especially in this country...many of the priviledge don't understand the hardships of the poor and that what the elite get the poor get three times harder, everything is a result of consequences and everything has consequences thats why they there and its hard for a poor person who lives in hardened conditions to become priviledge....suburbian south africans don't understand this and south africa isn't only the government so is the people and the masses and WE SHOULD HELP EACH OTHER OUT....because we are all south africans and we are all brothers and sisters but this is south africa, i forgot, its too much for south africans to care about people of a different pigmentation and status, we do this to ourselves and we judge each other, the gov. only makes a part of the people and have been chosen by us, its our responsibility too help and care and share and share empathy with each other. WE ALL SOUTH AFRICANS and if we cant see it there will be crime and there will be social injustice and there will be racism and there will be hate......suburbia is much to blame to and so is everyone...its up to us to change and i agree, uts the dimwits prevailing attitude elite who complain the most and all they do is complain....

terry 6/24/2009 1:32:22 PM
Good articale ! No. 1 :education is key . Yvonne makes a point .... the divide will not deminish if more and more people have to rely on government handouts. The biggest financial strain put on any household is children and the fact of the matter is that the lowest income earners are having the most kids . Wealthy family's have fewer children and invest more in those children which gives them a greater likelyhood of becoming successful in the future . Poor families have more kids which means those households rely more on government aid (schools,housing , grants, ect)and as those families become a greater proportion of the populace so the strain on government becomes greater and the cycle continues . We are getting this all wromg by rewarding behavior that burdens the state and punishing those who strive to be successful & productive citizens . Point is don't rely on government to take care of you & your family because they can only help at the most basic of levels . The 'elite' make up about 2% of the population and can't be expected to take care of everyone else (Just cause they have made a success of themselves doesn't mean they obligated to help everyone ). If you punish people for doing well then there is no incentive to try and everyone loses but that seems to be the current logic , we'd rather see everyone fail than one person succeed. Lessen the burden on state and the greater impact they will have in the lives of those that need it .

Robert 6/24/2009 5:26:49 PM
Your article is both interesting and thought provoking. Thank you.

I would suggest that the first thing that South Africa as a collective whole needs to do is decide what it wants to be. Do the majority in SA want to live the 'dream' of middle America - tidy middle class houses in leafy suburbs, plenty of malls and distractions to waste money on and a boring but stable job that pays the bills? This after all seems to be the standard of the moderately prosperous West.

If that is what they want, the road ahead will be long - it will require re-education, westernising of the traditional communities, gradually raising the bar both in education and physically in terms of how people live and work. It will require direction from the government (consistent and strong) and a shared value/goal by the populace.

Alternatively, South Africa could realise that it is possible to be comfortable, healthy and well off following a slightly different social model - one that works with the resources to hand and the realities of life in an increasingly dry country. Update traditional models (community elders, etc) to get a handle on crime, organise society at local level and start raising the bar when it comes to living standards, and personal and social responsibility within ones community. Focus on education - make it accessible and above all practical - support one another as best possible to ensure that children have the stability they need to succeed.

Both options are idealistic, yet both are achievable. The big problem in South Africa is that there are too many people singing too many tunes, and there is little cooperation to achieve a common goal.

eddie 6/26/2009 1:37:15 PM
Hey Prince, well done. My greatest hope has always been that when our grandpa's and ma's are dead, we will have a true rainbow nation...one that is colour-blind. But looking at the responses above and all other public fora that i frequent ( blogs and debate-columns), I have no hope. Young people exhibiting racial undertones even where it is not needed. Stifling debate because we are not comfortable with a subject. It reminds me of the xenophobia days, where the rich were 'wailing, empathising etc' with victims, but when shelters were put somewhere they deemed too close to home, they suddenly turned hypocrites!!! Well, Prince.

MLS 6/27/2009 6:40:39 PM
Mr Mashele I agree with most of what you say, however there is a limit to what the 'elite' can contribute. In addition to the 14% Vat, we pay nearly 50% of our income to the Gvt by way of income tax, and in addition we contribute directly to various charities. I feel that in an indirect way we are already making reparations for the past because we receive very little from the Gvt in return for the taxes we pay, for example our only child is at a private school, we use private medical facilities, we use private security to guard our property,etc. Therefore our taxes are being used mainly to fund the social grants etc. given to poor people, as opposed to benefiting us, the 'elite'. I do not really mind that because I agree that the poor need to be uplifted if this country is to become stabilised, but there is a limit to how much we can continue to give, and give and give. Also, the municipal rates we pay as well as our very high electrity tarrifs are used to cross-subsidize the poor. By the way, although we are now financially secure, it has taken sheer hard work and many sacrifices because both my husband and I come from poor families.
Your name
*
Email
*
Comment
*
 
 
 

inside news24

Cpt: 14-18°C Showery. Morning clouds. Mild. Pta: 17-29°C A few showers. Broken clouds. Pleasantly warm.
Jhb: 15-26°C Scattered showers. Morning clouds. Mild. Bloem: 13-25°C Heavy rain. Morning clouds. Mild.
Dbn: 19-31°C Rain late. More clouds than sun. Warm. PE: 15-22°C Numerous showers. More clouds than sun. Mild.
7 day forecasts...
Western Cape Eastern Cape Kwazulu Natal Gauteng

Germiston - 18:42:48 PM The bridge over the N12 Highway is closed for roadworks until 17th January 2010 - traffic is being re-routed to cross the Highway via the Sam Green Street bridge or the Kraft Road Interchange More traffic reports...

Here are the winning Lotto numbers from the Saturday, November 7 draw.

18, 24, 25, 31, 35, 42 Bonus 38

Lotto plus: 4, 14, 17, 20, 21, 34 Bonus 3

SMS the word Lotto to 31222 to get lotto numbers sent directly to your phone. The service costs just R10 per month. 
More lotto numbers...

Jobs - Find your dream job

Technical Trainer

Gauteng
Evrst Business Solutions

Information Security Officer

Gauteng
Evrst Business Solutions

Network Administrator

Gauteng
Evrst Business Solutions

Cars - Search 1000's of new and used cars

AUDI

2008 A4 1.8T Multitronics from R 269 000

HYUNDAI

Accent 1.6 GLS MY07
2007
R 99,995.00

TOYOTA

Hilux 2.7 Raider LWB VVT-i RB PU MY05
2005
R 149,995.00

TOYOTA

Hilux 2.0 VVT-i PU MY08
2008
R 125,990.00

Property - Find a new home

BALLITO

Multiple Unit R1,750,000

BOARDWALK MANOR ESTATE

Single Residential R4,700,000

BOARDWALK ESTATE

Single Residential R2,495,000

Travel - Look, Book, Go!

Free Games - TOO MUCH NEWS? TAKE A BREAK!