Calif. 'marriage' ban okay?: News24: MyNews24: Letters

Juan 11/20/2008 9:54:00 AM

"marriage" is something meant for a man and women. The Bible teaches us that homosexuality and sodomy is disgusting, sinful and wrong. For gays to get married in a church is sickening, and a slap in the face of religion! God's laws have been around MUCH longer than the US constitution or our own pathetic constitution!

Viparo 11/20/2008 9:54:46 AM

I had the same discussion with some of my (differently inclined) friends a while ago.They all shared your sentiments.A wedding is two people joining each other in love.Be they of the same sex,or not.Most gay folks feel that it won't be the aforementioned, but a spectacle,and having been ridiculed their entire lives,would rather settle for something more intimate.Strange thing thou,the gay people I know who are catholic, are heavily opposed to the idea, while those that aren't religious, aren't.

Carl Kirstein 11/20/2008 9:58:59 AM

I find the happenings in California quite interesting. The Americans are so ardent for democracy that they wage war or enforce sanctions against anyone that seems to oppose it... yet when the majority of people have voted against same-sex marriages there is suddenly a problem with that!? Do they have a problem with their own deified self governance? Nevertheless, RSA also proclaims democracy. Why don't the people get to vote on hot topics such as this? Is democracy the farce I think it is?

Big Bad Bob 11/20/2008 9:59:37 AM

Governments should not grant different types of unions on the basis of sexual orientation. Religious organisations may chose their own criteria for deciding who is or is not married in the eyes of that faith. So perhaps we should say that in law there are only civil unions, and "marriage" is a matter between the couple and the clergy of whatever faith they belong to.

maya 11/20/2008 10:00:02 AM

So by your reasoning, because you personally dont give a toss, all people should be ok with this kind of discrimination? You may not like the word marriage, but to many gay couples the word has important significance. It denotes, among other things, a spiritual commitment between two people who love each other and are committed for the rest of their lives. It also denotes full integration within society as a whole, and a celebration of love. For religious gays it is an important achievement.

cuba 11/20/2008 10:02:19 AM

i did enjoy your sarcasm at us hetero's gossiping about going to a gay wedding over our morning coffee. but seriously though, the logic behind not letting gays have a civil union is the same as the logic that wouldn't allow a white man to marry a black woman (it's called anti-miscegenation laws) and that logic is retarded

Glock 22c 11/20/2008 10:02:23 AM

I hope you get what you want some day

Flim 11/20/2008 10:04:01 AM

But why do you think marriage "belongs" only to het people? I can appreciate that marriage isn't for you, but I don't get why you don't think gay people who want it should have to settle for something else. Equal rights has to include exactly that - equality. Telling someone they can't call their love commitment marriage because that's only for het people is not the same as equality. Just because it doesn't matter to you on an individual level it doesn't mean it doesn't matter at all.

thanks 11/20/2008 10:05:00 AM

you are right my friend for at least understanding that this whole set up is not biblical hence has no room in the church at all. if we cud have more reasonable people in your situation then it will be easier to minister to you so can turn your evil ways. The next step my brother is be born again and accept Jesus as ur Lord and personal saviour. God bless you and will pray for yu.

Rian 11/20/2008 10:07:01 AM

I agree, gay people should have a right to civil union. I'm sure you are going to get a lot of interesting comments from the bible punchers/homophobes.

Wedding Crasher! 11/20/2008 10:07:31 AM

I could actually care less about whether they get married or not. I just cant understand like you said why the big fuss to get in a church and marry the opposite sex, technically its the church and their God thats against it, so it wouldnt even be legit(in religous terms).....they would still go to their Hell 1 day. Sorry i am an infidel :D

chillepeppa 11/20/2008 10:08:51 AM

Paul, I can tell you, even for hetrosexual couples the civil thing is a lot less 'painful' than the church thing. We did it, never regretted it. I see where you are coming from and it makes sense. @Jaun - '"marriage" is something meant for a man and women.' Isn't that what Paul's letter is saying?

Kolkas 11/20/2008 10:09:35 AM

The problem with religion is that it preaches non tolerance. People, get over it. We should all practise tolerance towards all people. We need to understand that some people are different to us, believe different things and act differently. We have to right to shout at them because of our beliefs. If so then we should do it to all "sinners" arrest people for telling lies. Convict people for the envy they show of people with nice houses. Imprison a woman for adultery.

Brett Pretorius 11/20/2008 10:14:01 AM

To the religious nuts... I am heterosexual, christian....christian that's a funny word. It means little Christ. Jesus came to save all. He spent his time with cripples, beggars, lepers, prostitutes, corrupt tax collectors, fisherman and gave a dying thief a reprieve whilst himself dying an undeserved death. Think about that a little. Jesus came to embrace us all. He came with love and acceptance. Perhaps we should look through the eyes of Jesus and let God decide what is to happen!

LRob 11/20/2008 10:14:59 AM

Is one of self determination. If a civil ceremony would make you happy then that is the way to go. So to, if you would care to make a better colour choice (pink not for me either) and then walk down the aisle. To all those people out there who would like to bring the bible into it. . . God is supposed to be about love, support and not judgement. Mostly I am of the opinion if people judged less and lived more the entire world would be a better place.

Kolkas 11/20/2008 10:15:10 AM

The problem with religion is that it preaches non tolerance. People, get over it. We should all practise tolerance towards all people. We need to understand that some people are different to us, believe different things and act differently. We have to right to shout at them because of our beliefs. If so then we should do it to all "sinners" arrest people for telling lies. Convict people for the envy they show of people with nice houses. Imprison a woman for adultery.

Brett Pretorius 11/20/2008 10:18:11 AM

"for ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" We are no worse and no better than any homosexual, thief, rapist murderer or even Julius Malema. Get with the programme. You are called to be like Christ. Stop being a pharisee PAUL - I hope that you find acceptance and not tolerance. I hope you have a wonderful marriage/union. I hope that you may know the real "inclusive", "merciful", "loving" God that I have come to know

SimonP 11/20/2008 10:18:47 AM

The fact that the choice is there to either opt for marriage or civil union is what matters.

ALL MAN 11/20/2008 10:19:35 AM

...the bearded man in the sky said so, it's in the Bible you know, so if you don't want him smite you, rather fornicate with pre-pubescent boys like the priests.

gazmic 11/20/2008 10:22:30 AM

It's the 21st century yet religion has poisoned our species to such a point that we still believe magic sky wizard cares what you do behind closed doors with your naughty bits. It's pathetic. Any two consenting adults of legal age should be allowed to enter into a civil union contract, with the same benefits as "marriage" regardless of gender. Leave marriage ceremonies with the different churches and temples. You should still have a wedding on your own terms and celebrate your love.

billmaher 11/20/2008 10:26:45 AM

All gay people are asking for is a 50% chance at a successful marriage. You religious people won't even allow them the dignity of attempting a life long commitment, yet happily dissolve 50% of YOUR own marriages (so much for "till death") . Can't you see that your bigotry and hate is turning you into the exact opposite of your so called lord and savior?

gugu 11/20/2008 10:27:09 AM

with Gay people wanting to get married, the sooner we make gayism a norm in all forms of society the better , when we start discriminating as to who should and shouldn't marry we create division, which leads to homophobia, I respect your choice Paul, but I also more so respect the freedom of choice for Gay marriages.I don't feel superior as a Heterosexual!

Nicola 11/20/2008 10:27:43 AM

As a heterosexual atheist, I also don't have any desire to have a "marriage". A civil union will suit me just fine. As for California, I believe that they should cease referring to themselves as the "land of the free" until they have given equal rights to all of their citizens.

James 11/20/2008 10:28:15 AM

I must say that I also believe in the Biblical philosophy that a marriage is between and man and a woman. If a gay friend (I have none, but if I did) invited me to a gay wedding I would have to decline. I think that world governments should base their constitutions on tradition, rather than on what is currently fashionable or what some minorities make a lot of noise about.

Panado 11/20/2008 10:28:55 AM

Why is america's democracy being brought into this? The same country who still proudly has a statue with the words...bring me your tired, weary, oppressed etc etc. That same statue now has a sign that reads, no vacancy. They vote to have open discrimination. News flash people- - - - - that is no different to apartheid. Get a life Let us not discriminate against gays or anyone else. That is also biblical btw

The Dude 11/20/2008 10:30:11 AM

I personally think if a gay couple wants to get married they should be able to. I really get pissed off because of people's narrow mindedness. Oh and I'm straight btw. Live and let live. Later ;)

Pangea 11/20/2008 10:31:34 AM

I am really trying to understand why people are constantly going on about Homosexuality? The bottom line what two adults do with their lives has really nothing to do with anybody else. What is it with the people that they constantly want to get into the lives and bedrooms of other people?

Rich 11/20/2008 10:32:59 AM

The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.

Big Bad Bob 11/20/2008 10:33:00 AM

Witness Juan's outburst. They all know (or think they do) what the bible says about christianity. However they don't rail against other things the bible prohibits. EG eating prawns, crayfish, mussels and the like. The good book tells us that is an "abomination" to eat anything that comes out of the water and doesn't have fins AND scales. But we don't see the likes of Juan getting on the high horse over eating crayfish.

L van Heerden 11/20/2008 10:33:24 AM

if gay people prefer to call their union a marriage, then so bloody be it. What is in a name? Nothing if you ask me. It is not as if heterosexual couples are doing much to sanctify marriage and that is what surprises me why homosexuals would want an association with a crumbling institution. Zuma is married

Drew 11/20/2008 10:34:01 AM

The Bible also says don't cut your hair, don't tattoo your body, don't get earings, don't judge other etc.......I hope you apply the same hatred against everyone else. Oh, the Bible also says love your God with all your heart and love your neighbor. As a Gay Christian, I love my God and I find it really, really sad that the body of Christ - the Church - is unnacepting of everyone. But like Paul - I don't want to get married. Having my partner with me is all I need and God loves me no matter what!

Nuffsed 11/20/2008 10:35:10 AM

I agree with the author. I believe n marriage is a religious ceremony and should not be available to homosexuals since no religion will condone this. When a man and a woman completed the religious ceremony they also enter into a legal arrangement. Now this legal arrangement or civil union should be available to homosexuals. This is a government institution and can not be banned bc of seperation of state and religion. All citizens should have the right to enter into civil unions.

Paul 11/20/2008 10:35:47 AM

For those of you who say I?ll go to hell, purely because I?m gay. Let those without sin cast the 1st stone & I?ll buy YOU a pink suit. For those who say I?m trying force my view on everyone?have you conveniently neglected to notice the amount of times I use the word ?personally? in my letter? The purpose of this letter is to produce a lively debate & NOT to degrade or insult anyone. Live with it!

Rob Breslin 11/20/2008 10:36:17 AM

After being together for over 27 years, my male partner and I got "married" at the Randburg Magistrate court earlier this year. The reason we did it was to have all the legal matters settled, nothing else. The reason why heterosexual people get married is to get a stamp of approval from the family, the church and the society. It baffles me why G&L yearn to be recognised by the same hypocritical insitutions that look down on us. F*** their marriage!

Big Bad Bob 11/20/2008 10:37:49 AM

Yet we are regarded as "married". There was no church, no pastor present, but we are regarded as "married". Legal systems that confer the status "married" on heterosexual couples who did not formalise their union in church should confer the same status on same-sex couples.

Simonp 11/20/2008 10:40:39 AM

As per usual you seem unable to open your mind. I personally find it disgusting that people use religion to sanction their own personal hatred.

Phil 11/20/2008 10:41:19 AM

From the tone of your letter I highly doubt that!

Lithium 11/20/2008 10:41:27 AM

...unfortunately that is what it means to live in a democracy. The popular vote determines what happens and what not. If the court overrules the vote, then it flies in the face of democracy.

Joe333 11/20/2008 10:42:12 AM

I agree with you. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Gay couples don't have to insist on marriage but a civil union is the way to go. That is exactly what is happening in California. Gay couples will still be equal before the law but not recognised in a religious sense. As Christians we cannot condone marriage between same sex couples.

Barden 11/20/2008 10:43:47 AM

A traditional church marriage, or even the term 'marriage' may not be your cup of tea. Similarly, many straight people shun the ceremony. I'm a gay man, and a christian. My partner and I are currently planning our wedding, and we're having it in our church, and the ceremony is being performed by our minister. I am not wearing a pink suit. I think the point that you've missed is that in South Africa you currently have a choice. A choice many people have fought for you to enjoy. Think again.

Interloper 11/20/2008 10:45:53 AM

that you can choose if you want a civil partnership or to be married. Concerning the 'marriage ban', I am so sick and tired of religious groups claiming marriage to be their property. People got married LONG before Chrisianity and other religions even existed; but they have appointed themselves as the 'moral' protectors against the 'evil gay agenda'. It would be laughable if this behaviour was not as evil as it is. Get over yourself.

JCS 11/20/2008 10:52:16 AM

Most people don't even know that they do 2 marriages on their wedding day. The original marriage was a church thing and is described in the Bible and the church can decide who may do it and who not. The other is a legal marriage where the laws of a country determine who can and who cannot get married. You can do the one without the other and there are risks associated with both.

Big Bad Bob 11/20/2008 10:55:02 AM

The 2nd sentence of my post about inconsistent attitudes should have read "They all know (or think they do) what the bible says about homosexuality."

Pieter 11/20/2008 10:56:30 AM

Aa a gay person I also don't want to get married, but everyone who wants to, gay or straight, must have that right. Even the right to mince down that aisle in a pink suit. Absolutely. PS: What is wrong with calling your partner husband?

Tsotsi 11/20/2008 10:57:52 AM

Since when does one need the law here to do what you want?!

Steph 11/20/2008 11:02:57 AM

There is always some narrow minded little Ahole who takes things too far. Mind your own business if you do not like it...!!

Mark T 11/20/2008 11:03:01 AM

In my view, as long a couple are happy, I do not care the make up of it. So many people are quick to judge other people. To me a destructive, abusive, drunken marriage is what we should be focusing on when condemning couples. For the religious people who want to judge should rememeber that God did not give us the authority to judge other people- that is God's right alone. I say live and let live without prejudice.

VG 11/20/2008 11:04:28 AM

So because you don't like the idea of "marriage", its ok to discriminate against people based on their sexual orientation?How about those gay people who do want to be "married", not "civil-unioned". When will people learn that "separate is not equal". Everyone who wants their union to be recognised by the state should have a "civil union". Then its up to you whether to involve the religious aspect or not. But all must be equal under the law.

KLB 11/20/2008 11:17:23 AM

It's all about personal choice, whether you are queer or straight. And my personal choice was to marry my wife, in a ceremony led by a minister of religion. I don't care what the anti-queer brigade think, because what they think doesn't affect my life at all. What I do care about is that amongst the many faults that this country still has, at least we did get one thing right i.e. the right for all people, whatever their sexual preference, to choose to marry if they wish to.

A 11/20/2008 11:20:17 AM

I have had just about enough with Christian idiocracy! It's ok to bash gay people because it says so in our pity bloody BIBLE!! But when men and woman have affairs, get rage, curse, hit etc. it's only 'human'. Phew at all of you who find it so ridiculously easy to judge. Who let a manmade (dare I say it) control the way you live and see life? Try to get signals to what you call a brain and open up your eyes.

ali 11/20/2008 11:23:40 AM

I think its sad when people who have just as loving, caring and committed relationships are denied getting married, marriage is not only a christian thing civalisations all over the world have the same ritual. So really what does it have to do with Christians at all?I just wish that christians would realise that not everyone believes what they do and get on with their lives and stop trying to enforce their beliefs on others.

AJ 11/20/2008 11:26:18 AM

I like civil unions as it affords same sex couples the same freedoms / burdens as heterosexual couples. When you define marriage (a religious ceremony), then to ignore what religion thinks of it (right or wrong in your opinion) is silly and meaningless.

Juan 11/20/2008 11:27:28 AM

If a church allows gay marriage, then they should also allow people to drink and smoke in church, and let's not stop there.. they should also encourage peadophiles and rapists to do theire thing! SICK SICK SICK world we live in that now wants to force theire sick 'rights' into churches!

Big Bad Bob 11/20/2008 11:29:56 AM

The concept of a solemnised, binding union between two people predates christianity. The Romans, centuries prior to the birth of Christ, had a system of marriages that took care of things like obligations and inheritance. The church is a Johnny-come-lately in this regard. The first verifiable use of the word "marriage" (or a word that translates as such) is found in pre-Christian Roman documents from the time when Rome was a pagan state.

Andrew 11/20/2008 11:30:11 AM

Pagan law has been around even longer than that. My 2c.

kimstories 11/20/2008 11:35:45 AM

this is the first time i have heard a gay person who believes in the whole 'together forever' thing and wants it - but does not want the word or idea of marriage included. do you not think that by using different words or concepts, gay unions will always be considered 'less' than straight marriages because the word marriage is not used? i think the homophobes and narrow minded inour society will use the fac that it is a 'union' as opposed to a 'marriage' to continue seeing themselves as better.

cos 11/20/2008 11:36:04 AM

I agree with what you say Jesus stands for but u should remember that the person isnt the sin but according to the bible the act is a sin - not just Old Testament but also New Testament (St Paul's letter to Romans). We should respect & love the person but not the act. You cannot be a practicing Christian & also have a homosexual relationship. U either believe what the bible says or you dont - you cant just believe the bits you like

Ims 11/20/2008 11:38:10 AM

EVERYONE is entitled to his / her, straight / gay etc opinion - leave to the individual??? Besides, marriage is a piece of paper and I know more couples that have not got one that are happier than those who have - so it is up to each individual - no one should be throwing stones!!!

ChrisR 11/20/2008 11:40:05 AM

Everybody does not share your enthusiasm for your god's so called rules which disaproves of moffies sexual practises. Lets leave the moffies to lead their life of choice as most of them are ordinary people like us.

cos 11/20/2008 11:40:46 AM

Any priest(or anyone else for that matter) who "fornicates with pre-pubescent boys" as posted by you will also answer for their sin. Religion and the belief in God is bigger than all the evil people in the world. Your sarcasm shows ignorance

Ginney 11/20/2008 11:47:54 AM

I am a marriage officer - and I marry both straight and gay people. I think there should be one law for all and there should be no discrimination. All I see if a whole bunch of amazing people who are in love. I think the world needs more love (and understanding).

Paul 11/20/2008 11:51:38 AM

Which part of me saying that I'm gay...did you not understand? How am I now discriminating against people based on their sexual orientation? Which planet are you from?

M 11/20/2008 11:58:51 AM

That is most prob the best answer I have ever heard from you bro! I fully agree, separate the two, i.e. allow same/different sex couples a union before the law with the benefits etc but leave "marriage" for the religious groups.

M 11/20/2008 12:01:08 PM

Buddy you got it all wrong, "marriage" is a religious term and isn't subject to "rectification" like you would like it. But you and your partner should be able to become a union which is the same as for a straight couple with all the benefits obtained by law. Please don't confuse the two.

chillepeppa 11/20/2008 12:04:21 PM

You sound seriously homophobic. You need help.

TG 11/20/2008 12:06:48 PM

Paul to some degree i do agree with what you are saying, it doesn't hurt to have a choice tho. To Juan, 'thanks' & Wedding Crasher, whilst you are entitled to your beliefs, let me remind you of the little passage that reads something like 'he that is without sin shall cast the first stone'... i don't think any of you fit this profile. But i suppose these are the bits of The Bible that some religious folk like to ignore as it doesn't quite fit in with their judgemental portfolios.

Lucky Ralawe 11/20/2008 12:12:14 PM

You sound like these Pastors who are living off the hardwork and sweat of his flock. Say, which verse in the Bible says "love" gays? The Bible which I read says it is wrong for a man to sleep with another as if he was a woman, and vice-versa. it also makes reference to Sodom and Gomorra, the land of the gays which God destroyed as proof of his abomination. Not that I hate gay people, I just do not approve of their lifestyle behind closed doors. It's wrong, finish en klaar!

MarcD 11/20/2008 12:29:59 PM

The definition of marriage in the dictionary, all throughout history, involves a man and a woman. So now we must go change the definition for gays? Nah. I have no problem with gays and lesbians getting married - hey, we all gotta do what we gotta do - but call it something else, please.

M 11/20/2008 12:38:14 PM

To all the homophobes, everybody has a right to be with whomever they want to be with, whether you like it or not, now live with it!.....and stop using christiaanity as an excuse for your pathetic homophobic tendencies, hypocrites!!

Pop Idol 11/20/2008 12:40:04 PM

Some people have what we call "a short fuse",i.o.w, they get angry quickly.This represents a flaw in their personality.The same can be said about homosexuals.Just imagine how many deaths there would be if we allowed a person with a temper to reak havoc.Homosexuality shouldnt be tolerated either.Its against the laws of nature to insert your penis into the anus of another man as the anus wasnt designed for penetration.There is only ONE form of sex and that is,penis inserted into vagina.

Big Bad Bob 11/20/2008 12:41:26 PM

Well there's a big problem. None of the Christian scriptures were written by Jesus, and most of the new Testament was written by a man (Paul) who never heard Jesus speak. So there are many instances where we don't know where Jesus stood on some matter. Sure, sure, sure Paul was divinely inspired. How do we know? He said so. And that's where the trouble started.

Morgoth 11/20/2008 12:46:45 PM

I say let gays Marry! They have the right like everybody else to be misrable :-). Religion, BTW, is a tool to control people. Today its mostly done through the monetary economic system. Money=Debt=Slavery.

Drew 11/20/2008 1:02:56 PM

"You cannot be a practicing Christian & also have a homosexual relationship" - a sin is a sin and no man is without sin. So why have Churches? Or are you perfect? Or are YOU only picking the bits of the Bible you want? Surely if God didn't me this way he would have changed me after all the praying I have done.

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