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George Annandale

South Africa
News24 User

Culling the crocodile

by George Annandale
2009-07-13 07:58

I am not sure whether I should be sad, bemused or angry. The hostage drama at the Crocodile River platinum mine near Brits has to stand out as another extreme act of sadomasochism by the "entitled proletariat" under the guise of the "poor oppressed worker".

To understand the issues and dynamics of the situation it helps to have a bit of a background of events leading up to the crisis. The existence of this mine in itself is a minor miracle, having changed hands five times since it came into existence in the mid 1980s. The mine has been profitable for very short periods and only when the platinum group metals were at extremely and unsustainably high levels.

Currently the mine is not profitable and is burning cash in the hope that the platinum price will pick up, the rand will weaken or hopefully both. Should this not materialise, the mine will probably close before the year-end. The current situation will, most likely, expedite the eminent mine closure and resultant job losses at this company built on hope and prayers.

During the chequered history of the company, few people made money. Those who made money can thank good timing, luck, greed and good marketing. Some who owned the mine during the years were able to sell their "asset of dubious value", to often poorly informed and over-optimistic investors, "high" on platinum price euphoria. The current owners represent a considerable number of ill-informed Canadians since the company is registered in Canada with its trading in Toronto and Johannesburg. This can be interpreted as a subtle warning to the few stupid investors out there who, despite the Fraser report, are still investing into South African mining projects.

In order to keep the mine going management, I believe took a number of actions to preserve cash and keep the mine going in the hope that the platinum price will recover. The objective of these actions is to recover losses and to make profit. As a result, people remain employed and suppliers are paid. Actions taken include the reduction of development, necessary to open ore reserves for longer-term sustainability, the removal of the mining contractor responsible for operations and taking over the work force thus removing waste from the value chain.

It is the ex-contractor workers who now hold people hostage demanding permanent employment on a mine making a loss but with the clear intent to keep them employed as long as humanly possible.

These "entitled" elements in our society are intent on biting the hand that feeds them. They are quite prepared to go and lie at home and breed once they have destroyed the business. Unfortunately, this action is the result of a strike culture that permeates South African society.

The irony

A culture perpetuated by unions in their power struggle against the market economy. The union of course, denies that their members are holding hostages. Anyone believing this assertion is incredibly naïve taking into account that the union involved is the National Union of Mineworkers, the same lot that is holding the country hostage with the 2010 soccer stadium gun against our heads.

It is ironic, were these poor hostage holding strikers stuck underground because of a power failure or other technical reason, the union and the DME would have been extremely critical of about management's disregard for miners' safety. It must be understood, dangerous situations in mine can only be created by management. The "experienced, intelligent and highly perceptive worker" will never expose himself to danger

With the Pamodzi case still fresh in our minds the astute thing is for Crocodile River Management to cut their losses, stop the bleeding and get the hell out of there. One just wonders how many companies must be closed down by irresponsible unions and their members before sanity will prevail.

There are few winners here. The investors, with few lucky exceptions, will lose their money, the employees will lose their jobs, the strikers and hostage takers deservedly so and suppliers will have to write off what is owed to them.

The BEE partners, who obtained their stake in the company at a discount, may not loose and probably already took their profits at the expense of workers and real investors. The Union will be walking away, smiling and flexing their collective muscles after another "well-deserved" victory for the left and a body blow for sanity.

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JoJo 7/13/2009 8:12:30 AM
Interesting article. I'm so sick and tired of the unions that only think of themselves and not the consequences of their actions. They have far too much say in this country, and not for the good of the workers either. Rabblerousers!

Xavier Miller 7/13/2009 8:12:45 AM
I agree with George. The unions in South Africa are no longer an effective collective bargaining mechanism. They have become militant, opportunistic self serving terrorists. If their tactics continue as they are at present, it will be the poor who pay for it with businesses closing down and people out of jobs.

Glock 22 c 7/13/2009 8:16:57 AM
Unions don't have a clue how a business works.They don't have it in their thick heads and they all think,if there is a company it must have plenty money and they just want to screw the workers.They steering this mine into bankruptcy and it will close then all these workers get no money instead of something. TIA

Craig 7/13/2009 8:21:23 AM
In a nutshell - brilliant, spot on...

bONGANI 7/13/2009 8:29:53 AM
I think some times we are so obsessed with profits and end up forgetting the human element. We can not keep on using recession as an excuse. These mine companies have been making a lot of money at the expense of workers. All mine workers die poor, mean while all mine owners are the richest people in South Africa. I think before we call people names, we should look at the bigger picture of corruption and selfish behaviour by some employers.

Andy 7/13/2009 8:34:42 AM
My sentiments exactly, George. However, there will be many who will feel agrieved at what you have stated. Biting the hand that feeds them, but then again, someone is sure to blame the white ou soon!

critical thinker 7/13/2009 8:36:49 AM
The recent flare up of strikes, demand for higher wages, calls for nationalisation of private companies, the centre stage given to ANCYL, SACP, COSATU, and the 30% increase in electricity price, combined w 10% increase in income tax to fuel the NHI fire, is going to move the goalposts of the SA economy to the left, how far, that is the question...

cuba 7/13/2009 8:37:30 AM
it is a sad time indeed, since unions are important, as their main purpose is to prevent workers from being abused by their employers (at least as i understand it), but lately, all they have been doing is attempt to bully and intimidate employers and use fear, violence and force to get what they want.

perhaps it may be time to take another look at how unions operate and how much power they wield? and then reevaluate their place and purpose in society.

G.Annandale 7/13/2009 8:40:00 AM
There is am alternative view of this issue for those interested. See "sick of being a hostage" at:
http://blogs.24.com/ViewComments.aspx?mid=89aa86eb-7fa1-42ba-8ad0-db169e05b3dd&blogid=9f5d3758-e66f-4448-8ddb-4fc5062c2521

Poloyatonki 7/13/2009 8:44:00 AM
where do you get your facts?

Pat 7/13/2009 8:47:06 AM
Good article. However your article will get you labelled a racist/ignorant/stupid whitey by the unthinking majority. Sad but true. Critical thinking alludes the "entitled proletariat, poor oppressed worker".

morena 7/13/2009 8:50:14 AM
that being said, you still protect the very same people that exploite workers in order for them to make 1000% profit for themselves, in simple mine bosses are greedy and will even stood as low as paying a miners R1500 a month while he earns R370000 a month, as for the lay at home a breed that was uncalled for

Mandy 7/13/2009 8:50:39 AM
Oh well done! Great article! About time somebody calls a spade a spade. It is the unions and their money-grabbing little comrades that is holding this country ransom. They will not stop until this country is on it's knees. Looking at all the strike actions currently going on, it won't be too long now. This government and unions are absolutely laughable. A bunch of idiots and money-hungry imbeciles.

emma 7/13/2009 8:54:55 AM
All these strikes lately, maybe there is a good reason. Working for a private company you can't strike. I can assure you there is PLENTY of reason for people all over to strike, even in the private sectors. For instance this building company's owner buys himself and his wife brand new most expensive cars and then tells the building foreman that they did it so that they could write it off to tax? Could they not have given the foreman and the workers a bonus and also written of tax in that way? Could someone please explain this to me. I don't know how tax works. All I know its a cheek that they buy expensive cars while people cant even buy food anymore.

Cape Town Kid 7/13/2009 8:59:58 AM
THIS IS AN ELITIST RIGHT WING ARGUMENT.IN FACT, ITS AN ATTACK ON THE CONSTITUTION. IT IS EVERYONES RIGHT TO STRIKE! WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND. The problem with this argument is that it seeks to protect those who employ.Why does it become the workers problem, that some persons made an uninformed investment.Then it goes on to say, that workers should not ENJOY any rights while investors seek to make a PROFIT! The fact that they hire 'contract' workers indicate that there are many third party relationships going on. But you fail to isolate this as part of the problem. Then you go on intellectualising and making a philisophical(comical) conclusion. Why are you not taking 'management'to task for not listening to worker grievances. They should be blamed for this as I am sure that 'hostage-taking' was the last RESORT!

colin 7/13/2009 9:02:49 AM
I do believe that there are 2 sides to the coin and if we have to be fair we have to admit that business in general and the rich investors are not that squeaky clean - at the end of the day workers need to be protected and exploitations of our workforce will not be allowed within the borders of this country - management will always try as far as possible to deprive employees of each and every little cent to ensure that the owners and shareholders ends up with huge profits - look at the global financial crisis, collusion and cartels who operates in some sectors of our markets at the expense of the poor - and our Supermarket Groups make huge profits which do not flow down to the employees. We need to be fair and admit with the unethical business leaders and practices do exist and we need a strong labour force representation to ensure that the poor are not exploited

Eles 7/13/2009 9:04:29 AM
Whilst I accept that unions have their place to protect the workers lately I think they are self-serving and providing their workers with unrealistic expectations, the economy is in the state that it is in and most people are lucky to get an increase at all with everything else increasing or indeed lucky enough to keep their jobs! I am tired of unions holding this country ransom to their demands - when is government going to stand up to unions? We have a culture of entitlement - where would this country be if we all went on strike and demanded job certainty. Seriously what world are these people living in - lala land. We cannot all be ceos or indeed receive a ceo salary if these people are unhappy with their jobs and salary i suggest they study further to get the job and money that they want. Again I have proposed many times that adult education centres should be funded by lotto money. I also don' t think anyone in goverment should receive increases this year or next - if most tax payers aren't why should they after all I do not doubt for a second that the rest of us work much harder - we actually do our jobs!!!!

AJ 7/13/2009 9:09:53 AM
There are 2 sides to the coin and a balance to be found. If the workers are right they will earn more and keep their jobs. If they were wrong they will ALL lose their jobs and the mine will close. We shall see how the workers fare soon enough.

vankuijeren14 7/13/2009 9:14:43 AM
this story further confirms my belief that south africa is on the verge of something horrible...taking people hostage to secure work far exceeds striking...its terrorism.

gerald 7/13/2009 9:19:19 AM
The basic problem is that trade unions are parasites. They wait for other people to take all the risks of setting up businesses, spending much money in the process, and then if the business works, they move in. They don't take risks themselves or create anything worthwhile but live like parasites off others. And union leaders live VERY well, and never lose their own jobs even as they destroy the livelihood of tens of thousands of others through ridiculous demands.

Tiekies 7/13/2009 9:20:42 AM
They must just close this mine and these miners can go work for the unions. Why be held ransome by unions all the time. Its nothing short of terrorism.That is why I dont employ union memmber sorry. They come and beg you for a job and then want to held you randsome afterwords and make you out to be the pig in the story.

Cyclops 7/13/2009 9:23:39 AM
As a bemused on looker it is not that hard to see where SA is heading. With its erstwhile partners in COSATU and the SACP the ANC will cave in to their unrealistic populist policies. SA is, I am afraid rapidly heading towards the African abyss

G.Annandale 7/13/2009 9:24:24 AM
@bONGANI & Poloyantonki
You can look at the website of Eastplats. You want to invest...be my guest. A lot of shareholders will loose a lot of money in the next year. Big mining companies have tried to work this mine and lost money.

Where do I get my info...I read it in reports.

RobM 7/13/2009 9:28:47 AM
The employers are the ones taking ALL the risks, they are the ones who keep the company going and try to make it competitive. If something goes wrong with a company who gets blamed the workers…never…always the Management…Like Mine safety ...the Unions blame the management when safety procedures don’t work…but in fact it is the workers at fault for not following the process…It is the employer who set up the company and has put it in a position where it can hire workers…So why shouldn’t they be paid the big bucks…Most of us work for a company and most of us understand that if you don’t like the way a company works or pays then you find another job….But the attitude here is that lets rather drive the company out of business then no one wins.
Unions have had a hugely negative impact on economic growth in the country they have taken away the biggest edge a company could have, the salary it pays its staff. They have made people think twice about starting up their own company as they know that they will not be able to manage the salary demands or the stoppages when the unions decide to ‘negotiate’ with them. Unions do not negotiate they blackmail.
If unions want a say then we need to stop this Confederation of Unions, this so called ‘collective bargaining’ is just an excuse for more people not to work and to trash the city. That is another thing….Unions should be held automatically responsible for ALL damage caused anywhere along the routes of their marches… And be made criminally liable.

Gerhard 7/13/2009 9:31:16 AM
Dear bONGANI,
No matter how you look at these peoples actions you cannot justify their behaviour even if they are most of African descent. If someone is not happy with their current satiation negotiate and if all fails move on. You see what most people in Africa do is sit about and wait for someone mostly a European to do something then they want to share in it and later own it. Unfortunate it is not in everyone’s pants to be a mine owner or a mine manager. And remember it takes vast amounts of money to build and run a mine if there is no large reward in it then there will be no one mining and no miners, so less jobs! But I think honestly most people in Africa would not mind less jobs but just remember the few can’t carry the many for too long.

RUDOLF 7/13/2009 9:33:33 AM
All true, so true. The sad part is that Wawiel and his comrades are already planning where to strike next. And once the union members lost the "low income" they had they will merrily start burning and stoning something else. The opressed, o the opressed!!

SimonP 7/13/2009 9:36:34 AM
Unions have no understanding of economics, how can a loss making mine give pay rises? To all those that believe in communism - it has never and will never work.

Louis 7/13/2009 9:40:47 AM
Then the mine should have been closed a long time ago. Instead it keeps on giving false hope while at the same time removing any chance that more sustainable ventures like tourism and farming could have had. People must own shares in the companies they work for to share in the profit. The high pay going to execs are unsustainable and they do not carry the accountability when things go wrong. It happens in mining and it happens in finance. Shareholders have a say in how the company is run. Holding shares is empowerment.

Silver Surfer 7/13/2009 9:42:09 AM
I have no problems with making your grievances known, BUT I do have a problem when your right to strike starts infringeing on other people rights. Eg, somebody elses right to strike should NOT impact on me if I want to go to work ! Also, striking is no excuse for turning violent or looting.

Ivan 7/13/2009 9:45:17 AM
Quite right GA, spot on. Lets see what happens when we no longer have foreign investment, then lets see how these "werkers" come unstuck in their 100's of thousands. As for CTK, get a life and wake up you twat and moronarema, sorry but that's excatly what they do, go home and breed cause they have nothing else to do.

da brudda 7/13/2009 9:47:17 AM
The right to strike is enshrined in our constitution. However, if Unions do not know what the basics ti economics is - then they nedd to have open ,inds and discuss the issue with the relevant powers. Furthermore, when strikes turn violent - I say shoot to kill the bastards......

Gerhard 7/13/2009 9:49:11 AM
Dear emma,
Get your own building and stop complaining!

Cape Town Kid,
Wait till the day when there are no more business then tell me I am “right”.

Duzi @ Cape Town Kid 7/13/2009 9:51:37 AM
And there she goes again deflecting the blame as perusual... Your attempt at using fancy language doesn't make you any smarter FYI...

Sonny@Cape Town Kid 7/13/2009 9:52:50 AM
So the constitution legitimises hostage taking? Your usual pathetic argument! Was at a state hospital over the weekend and it angered me to see the filth. Dirty trolleys used by the cleaners etc. But she is probably a union member and untouchable.

SimonP 7/13/2009 9:54:50 AM
@CTK, we all understand the constitution. What you dont appear to understand is basic economics. How many job losses so far this year? Give everyone a pay rise and the business goes bust so everyone loses their job. Brilliant idea.

Trevor 7/13/2009 10:03:51 AM
Brilliant article, well done.
Cape Town Kid, you are clearly an idiot, mentioning the constitution in that it is their right to strike, is it also constitutionally correct to hold people hostage? Go work on a mine and let them hold you hostage as I was once, then we'll talk again. They indeed walk among us....the idiots!

Anon 7/13/2009 10:05:10 AM
These strikers cannot do basic economics, its the policy of "no work no pay". If they strike for 30 days, they loose their monthly income of lets say R2500. They are striking for 3% more than what is on offer (the offer is in line with inflation by the way). They would have to work 2-3 years (33 months) to make back the 1 month wage that they lost. The only ones winning here are the trade unions, trying to legitimate their existance. You must be a fool not to see this?

Mabzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 7/13/2009 10:07:09 AM
people must just understand one thing, lack of working relationship between workers and employers and this creates a sisuation where there is a need for unions. The solution to the problem is to adopt Japanese business culture to have union free industry which is to make the employer spend some time doing the work of employees then they can really experience the issues that the employees face then they will be no need for unions. Thats the only way to build good relationship in a business.

Cynical@Cape Town Juvenile 7/13/2009 10:09:49 AM
"THIS IS AN ELITIST RIGHT WING ARGUMENT.IN FACT, ITS AN ATTACK ON THE CONSTITUTION. IT IS EVERYONES RIGHT TO STRIKE! WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND."

You are right CTK, but you forgot to mention that it is also the fault of Apartheid, the Past, Whites, Racists, Colonialists, Anti-Revolutionaries, the DA and all others who you consider to be unacceptable, right?

Lucky Ralawe 7/13/2009 10:15:41 AM
Your good article was ruined by your not so cleverly hidden racist arguments. Where is your evidence that BEE companies bought their shares at a discount? Furthermore, you seem to ignorant when it comes to how dividends or company profits are declared. Lastly, companies that come to invest here have certain pre-conditions, which include ensuring that some of the wealth remains in SA, as opposed to going to build Europe as happened in the past. Please get your facts straight, and stop seeing black and white if you want to win everybody to your view of the world. I know how near impossible that is for people who enjoyed privileges all for decades, based only on the fact that God created them in a different colour. By the way, here is another lesson in history: white miners struck in 1922, and were taken care of ever since by their own.

Frank 7/13/2009 10:16:15 AM
Press release just out - all the miners have been fired and are to be charged - well done NUM another victory against the people.

Spiderman @ CTK 7/13/2009 10:16:31 AM
Why do you insist trying to be clever. Everyone on this site already knows that you are absolutely talking garbage. Try another site or change your name!
So, it is your constitutional right to go on strike. Then it is also your constituational right to starve to death as you obviously has no clue how economics and monetary policies work. How can management listen to workers grievances when there is none after removed by the unions? Should the union not perhaps listen to the workers or feed them?

Alien Dude @ ctk....suggestion for you 7/13/2009 10:17:54 AM
Do US all a favour and excersise you right and go on strike so we dont have to read your drivel......please make it a permanent strike.

Alien Dude 7/13/2009 10:20:37 AM
"These "entitled" elements in our society are intent on biting the hand that feeds them"...this is the african way. Can't think further than 2 minutes into the future. their noses.

Glock 22 c 7/13/2009 10:24:26 AM
THEY ALL BEEN FIRED !! WELL DONE http://www.fin24.com/articles/default/display_article.aspx?ArticleId=1518-24_2538229

Palesa 7/13/2009 10:31:27 AM
I agree thre's no excuse to kidnapping and intimidatting but there's also no need PAT, to refer to blacks as the unthinking majority. If we are such a pain and disgrace to you get on a plane and fly to Europe of whereever the hell you come from. Clearly you have a distorted view of this country. Many of us are open minded, intelligent and educated and we certainjly don't need your kind in this country. So please you and all your brothers and sisters who think alike gto back to wherever your ancestors come from. And GERHARD, Mr Europe - GET OVER YOURSELF. What are you? certainly not African - because my view of an African is someone who was born in Africa and views himself as an African based on their roots.

Roy Greig 7/13/2009 10:33:17 AM
Morena 8.50. The problem is if someone invests, say R500 million, to set up a mine he really would be greatly annoyed to get R370,000.00 a month. He could place his money in a bank at 6% and clear R2.5 million a month without having to put up with any whining from from anybody and not even have to employ a single person. Respect the investors profit or move on and make your own investments if you don't.

Phillip Matswayo 7/13/2009 10:38:20 AM
Haui, why are article called culling the crocodile, where is it? The Crocodile. Haibo

Glock 22 c 7/13/2009 10:39:50 AM
Wahaha yeah ape town kid. Why don't these workers feed the constitution to their children now that they have excersized that right and have no job anymore.

Yolande 7/13/2009 10:41:24 AM
Excellent article! Same George Annandale who worked at Pres Steyn late 80's/90's?

SimonP 7/13/2009 10:44:02 AM
@Lucky Ralawe, can you name one BEE deal that was not at a discount? How do you think Cyril and Tokyo became so rich? Please indicate the "not so cleverly hidden racist arguements".

Alien Dude @ Glock 22c 7/13/2009 10:50:02 AM
Not to "cleva" now are they ?? LOL

Shimane Mbuyisa to Gerhard 7/13/2009 10:51:14 AM
Emma is asking a very legitimate question. Throwing your toys out shows only how tunnel viewed your thinking is.

Wisdom 7/13/2009 10:51:25 AM
I will rather get free handouts than work, I deserve to strike!!!

Anon 7/13/2009 11:18:40 AM
@Palesa 10:31:27 AM, please emigrate back to the Cogo where your ancestors came from, you settler you!

Lucky Ralawe to SimoronP 7/13/2009 11:22:12 AM
Your fellow AWB started this "discount" nonsense. I never said there were no discounts, which if I did would entitle you to ask me to bring proof. Why don't the two of you name a deal which was sold at a discount since you have that information?

Jakobus Pienaar to Lucky and SimonP 7/13/2009 11:24:57 AM
Lucky I would ignore SiMoron Pee if I were you. SiMoron, Since you seem to know, why not disclose how Cyril and Tokyo became so rich. As far as Cyril is concerned, I know that Sanlam gave him a loan to purchase its shares. What does a Moron know anyway other than throw wild allegations?

Juan @ anc and strike suppota's 7/13/2009 11:27:00 AM
Yupp. Read the headlines now. They all got FIRED! - See, if they sat around a table like decent civilised, evolved human beings there could have been a more positive outcome. But sit-in and hostage taking got them all FIRED. NO JOB NO MONEY! VIVA UNIONS!

emma 7/13/2009 11:28:17 AM
Yes PLEASE can someone answer my question without being racist. What does it mean to write off two expensive cars against tax? Can you also write off tax if you paid people bonus? This IS a question for tax expert please?

Patrick Mkhwanazi to SiMoronP 7/13/2009 11:36:35 AM
Since you brought the subject up, tell us how did Tokyo and Cyril get so rich. Don't just say they got discounts, give us evidence. I bet you don't have it and are just passing hotwind through your mouth as always

Wisdom 7/13/2009 11:41:30 AM
In both cases you get a tax write-off. But for the bonusses vs cars, the later is greed based...

Gerhard 7/13/2009 11:43:29 AM
Yes I am not African I am a Boer! But yes dear African friends if you are attempting to justify your fellow brothers actions here and not ashamed of them then you are truly in the black, I mean dark. The truth is I have met many enlightened black people and their views differ not much from what is right. And they are by no means pro white or pro black they are just plain simply intelligent enough to be pro right. If 1 + 1 = 3 in your mind then sorry you have got it wrong!
People you need rich people they drive the economy they ensure opportunities! Well I wish I could be rich I just need the right BEE partner!

SimonP 7/13/2009 11:44:24 AM
@Palesa, PATs post does not mention the word black, you are the one who assumed he meant black, have you got a persecution complex? The "if you dont like it leave" arguement is a bit old, something new please.

Patrick Mkwanazi to Emma and Gerhard 7/13/2009 11:46:38 AM
Emma as far as I know, an employer invest in his/her business, and all the investment is referred to as working capital and is therefore tax deductible. If one follows that logic, salaries and bonuses paid to employees are working capital which are written off against tax payable. That would be the reason why employees would then personally pay tax on those receivables. Otherwise both the employer and the employees would be taxed on the same amounts.

I hope the GerharDumb learnt something.

Anon 7/13/2009 11:47:08 AM
@ Emma, probably because the car will not go on strike or leave for another company, money better spent that way?

Phillip Matswayo 7/13/2009 11:48:34 AM
Haui , if they wery culling my crocodile it will here them calling and bite them. Save the crocodile it are part of our heretiege

Phillip Matswayo 7/13/2009 11:49:13 AM
Never cull a hungry crocodile

Juan 7/13/2009 11:50:12 AM
IF YOU HOLD SOMEONE HOSTAGE AT WORK, YOU *WILL* GET FIRED!!! - Were the unions too stupid to point that FACT out to their memba's? Helooooo?!!?

G.Annandale 7/13/2009 11:56:59 AM
@Yolanda...Different G. Annandale.

G.Annandale 7/13/2009 12:00:52 PM
Spare a thought for the ill-informed investor, some in Canada who thinks things are OK now that the strike is over. Some even buy shares based on the headlines, not realising it is probably "tickets" for this company.

vankuijeren14 7/13/2009 12:13:52 PM
eish i cant believe!!!
we are jobless wena...no weerk,no food,no nuthing...my govamunt has failed me mfet...i took a hostage to make them undastand i am hungrii..now they make me jobless...eish we have problems here...the law is wrong...we must africanise it...

emma 7/13/2009 12:31:23 PM
Well I'm getting to understand why people are striking more and more. I am white and I am GATVOL of the elite few rich people, by the way I am middle class. I think its disgusting to have a foreman or maybe six, they work overtime and on Saturdays and Sundays, they don't get paid overtime because they are in a "management" position, then you go and buy yourself and your wife the most expensive cars you can get, and then make a lame excuse "sorry you are not getting a bonus this year" because we bought expensive cars to write it off on tax!!! These foreman wont leave their jobs or complain as work is scarce. More and more i am starting to understand why it is strike-strike-strike. Believe me i am a White middle class income lady but my whole family is also getting screwed by bosses lately, who are just enriching themselves and paying the MINIMUM in private companies, they do this because they know jobs are scarce.

krbo 7/13/2009 12:36:14 PM
why does every discussion have to end up as a racial attack on each other, it is really starting to get DRY!

Jakobus Pienaar to vankuiuren14 7/13/2009 12:40:51 PM
At least those black workers that you are mimicking can speak and you can understand. How many black languages can you speak? Before you jump to conclusion, I can hold my own in IsiZulu, being a proud African Afrikaner that I am. So take a hike

Zwivhuya 7/13/2009 12:41:09 PM
I understand that Unions, with permission, have the right to strike. However, I do not believe that holding people hostage can be called striking, and I cannot believe that the unions have not spoken out against it. Then, again, unions this year have gone rogue. There is no bargaining strategy, just simple ransom-holding and threatening. I believe, especially given the economic climate, that unions are shooting workers in the foot (or at least are driving them to do it themselves) which is not looking out for them. It's easy to rally people who are in need, it's called taking advantage of them to get cred. It's cheap tactics and unions need to stop it!!!

Alien Dude @vankuijeren14 7/13/2009 12:42:17 PM
ROFL !!!!

@vankuijeren14 7/13/2009 12:58:58 PM
Can't you make your point as yourself? why us the "accent" to do it??

SimonP 7/13/2009 1:03:28 PM
@ Jackass Pienaar, Lucky R & Patrick M. FACT - All BEE deals are issued at a discount. FACT - Cyril and Tokyo got rich through BEE deals. Its all in the public domain.

Lucky Ralawe to SiMoronP 7/13/2009 1:11:19 PM
C'mon SiMoron, dazzle me with your wisdom for once? Oops! did I say that? There is just hot where grey matter should be occupying the space between your ears. If not, where is your evidence of discounts and how Cyril and Tokyo became rich. This is not during the PW era when everything said was taken as the gospel truth you know?

Jakobus Pienaar to the person who asked a question to vankuijren14 7/13/2009 1:21:34 PM
Because he is probably wanking as he uses the accent. vankuijren14wanker (lol)

@Cape Town Kid- Kyle_logan 7/13/2009 1:34:47 PM
veryone's right to strike??? funny that my contact says if I strike I get fired... my wife earns less then the mine works and has not gotten an increase in 3 years... she doesnt have a right to strike... it seems only those that dont care about the harm they are doing to the counrty and the countries image have a right to strike...

samsam @SIMONP 7/13/2009 1:45:40 PM
Communism will work, you should have done yourself a favor by attending an Annual Lecture by Prof Muhammad Yunus to keep yourself informed, you are less informed, when Nzimande says free education what does he mean, isnt that a mining of Engineers, CAs , Actuaries who dont have means to go to Univ, with your capitalism this wont happen

samsam @SIMONP 7/13/2009 1:52:37 PM
Communism will work, you should have done yourself a favor by attending an Annual Lecture by Prof Muhammad Yunus to keep yourself informed, you are less informed, when Nzimande says free education what does he mean, isnt that a mining of Engineers, CAs , Actuaries who dont have means to go to Univ, with your capitalism this wont happen

Lucky Ralawe to SiMoronPee 7/13/2009 1:53:53 PM
Where in the public opinion? Any specific place, like a webpage or something? I really like a phrase someone use today, which I think is relevant for you: you are really putting all the efforts to prove what a moron you are.

emma 7/13/2009 1:57:59 PM
Kyle, EVERYONE has a right to strike and to belong to a union, ever heard of Solidarity? Most of us has not had an increase or bonus in 3 years and that's the problem, we are also being held ransom by the elite rich few, i know for a FACT that my boss gets more than 150 000 a year bonus, and we get NOTHING, we do most of the work while he travels first class etc etc. Even in the private sector people are getting GATVOL, not only in South Africa. have you ever been threatened with retrenchment when you complain, thats the new excuse, they pocket millions and threaten you with retrenchment, this is happening to White people as well, be honest, are you really happy with your job and your pay, its even worse for us as we still have the 34% electricity rate to pay monthly - vicious circle... Economy collapsed overseas for the same reason, and there are no blacks to blame...

Patrick Mkhwanazi to SiMoron Pee 7/13/2009 1:57:59 PM
You are really wearing me down with your studity. Give us proof of the discounts. Yes Cyril and Tokyo became rich through BEE, and so did white companies that needed government tenders. Remember that BEE applies only in respect of companies that want to do business with the government, and not anywhere else.

Shimane Mbuyisa to Kyle Logan 7/13/2009 1:59:55 PM
Look at section 23(2)(c) of the Constitution. The right to strike is protected there. However, it must be a lawful strike.

Wisdom 7/13/2009 2:05:38 PM
Communism holds no incentive for the hard earnest worker, that is why you lazy people like it. Whether you work hard or not, you get the same pay!

SimonP 7/13/2009 2:14:23 PM
@Samsam, where has communism worked for the benefit of the majority? NOWHERE!

colin 7/13/2009 2:16:53 PM
You will never understand the situation of the workers if you have not been in there situation - imagine telling your child there is not food for him and he will have to go to bed with an empty stomach - we need to be more sympathetic as users of this forum and learn to understand that the world is bigger than the boxes we put ourselves in.

Sinki 7/13/2009 2:23:53 PM
@Patrick Mkwanazi to Emma and Gerhard
7/13/2009 11:46:38 AM-Excuse me Patrick but what do you do for a living? Why are you misleading those two people?
"an employer invest in his/her business, and all the investment is referred to as working capital and is therefore tax deductible" utter hogwash!! What does working capital consist of? All of a sudden you can deduct an investment expenditure,do you have your own tax laws?
I wonder what propels you to respond to something you know fokol about,remove that right hand from your pants,bad habit!!

SiMoronP-Please provide a link to your "public domain",hehe stupid uneducated, ill-informed racist liar.

SimonP 7/13/2009 2:24:19 PM
@(Un)lucky Ralawe, I stated it was "in the public DOMAIN" not opinion. Try and Google "South Africa BBE deals". What amazes me is that you dont know that ALL BEE deals have been granted at discounts, ask yourself (and anyone stupid enough to listen to you) How did Tokyo get soooo rich sooooo fast? Face the facts not the ANC hype and lies.

SimonP 7/13/2009 2:25:54 PM
@Samnsam, have you managed to compile the list of 500 countries the ANC has as friends yet? Thought not as there arent more than 200 on the planet.

@Roy Greig 7/13/2009 2:45:41 PM
That maybe so but if he CHOOSES to invest in a mine and earn R370 000 per month rather than put the money in the bank surely he should pay his workers more dont you think???

SimonP 7/13/2009 2:51:39 PM
@Sinki, go google it. Please indicate what posts I have made that are stupid, uneducated, racist lies. You are confused, everything I post is FACT, a word,just like racist,that ANCers dont appear to understand. Criticising your cadres does not mean it is a lie or racist.

samsam @SIMONP 7/13/2009 2:55:09 PM
the list of 500 countries" are you crazy Si, come to Pta and do head count of all the diplomats in Hatfield, ZUMA was the only head of State from Africa at G8, apartheid leaders never attended such meetings they know nothing about G8

@Sinki 7/13/2009 2:59:46 PM
Since you seem to know better kindly enlighten us cos i would also like to know cos my boss is shopping around for the latest BMW and our salaries are still the same as of last year. Our review was in April but due to the recession blah blah blah nothing could be done for us so where does the money for the cars come from?.

Mfanafuthi 7/13/2009 3:20:00 PM
@SiMoroP-I must google for it?WTF you got nutting poofy,just do the honourable thing and withdraw you statement about Tokyo and Ramaphosa,the world is all ears? Come now!!

It's not the first time you're caught pants down.Make it snappy now,apologize!

SimonP 7/13/2009 3:20:22 PM
@Samsam, u on drugs? Last week you stated the the ANC is friendly with 500 countries. I tell you there are not 500 countries on the planet. You then start banging on about the G8 and apartheid leaders. Im confused, what does this have to do with your original, and once again incorrect, statement

emma 7/13/2009 3:20:36 PM
Would you say buying yourself and your wife the most expensive cars is an investment, Rather than put it into the staff who work their backsides off for you - I say stuff you! We dotn even want expensive cars but just to get paid what we are due - worth, dont just ASSume everyone is lazy and does not deserve more.

jonboy 7/13/2009 3:30:55 PM
BEE was strongly criticised last month by Moeletsi Mbeki, an entrepreneur, political commentator and brother of former president Thabo Mbeki, who championed the policy. He argued that BEE entrenches inequality by creating a culture of entitlement.

"If you made me president of South Africa, the first thing I would do would be to scrap everything to do with black economic empowerment," Moeletsi Mbeki said. "If we keep going with these policies, the question is what will collapse first, BEE or the economy, or the country?"

He added: "BEE tells blacks, 'You don't have to build your own business, you don't have to take risk, the whites will give you a job and shares in their company.' I blame the ANC for buying into this story that instead of blacks working hard... they should be given a free ride."

from guardian.co.uk

SimonP 7/13/2009 4:11:03 PM
@Mfanafuthi, exactly what statement do you want ne to retract and apologise for. It is a fact Cyril and Tokyo made millions from BEE deals. Seems some of you ANCers, for whatever reason, refuse to acknowledge this. Why?

Die_Koos @ colin 7/13/2009 4:12:32 PM
That my friend is the real tragedy, I agree with what you are saying, but why turn around after looking at you hungry child, and blame your employer? Is it not your responsibility to provide for your family? If the service you offer (Work) is not worth enough for somebody to pay you what you need, offer a better service, or do the same work where the demand is higher and you can get paid more. Uplift yourself, don't drag a struggling company down.

Patrick Mkhwanazi to Sinki 7/13/2009 4:27:12 PM
What buffles me is that you dispute what I said, but you don't explain how the tax deductions work. Why do churches for example buy car or houses in the name of the church, and not of the Minister? Because they can avoid paying tax if an organisation is used, but not if a person is. I give up on you uninformed wanker!

Lucky Ralawe to SiMoron Pee 7/13/2009 4:28:24 PM
Surely public knowledge is stored somewhere SiMoron. What I need to know is where? Just point that out and redeem yourself for once

Patrick Mkhwanazi to SiMoron Pea Brain 7/13/2009 4:39:43 PM
Say for one moment is it in fact true that BEE shares are sold on discount. What is wrong with that? Is it not within those white companies' right to decide how they want to sell their shares? Fyi, BEE is forced on white companies that want to do business with a black government, not on any company. Having worked for a government department, we would insist that the new company point out how work is going to be divided between the white and black partner. This was intended to ensure that white companies stopped including their "tea ladies" and cleaners as partners only to carry on paying them peanuts. Anything wrong with that Undisputed King of Morons?

Jakobus Pienaar to Sinki 7/13/2009 4:44:17 PM
Sinkhole, tax deductions are allowed for money which companies invest in themselves as an incentive to set up and keep companies running and building the economy. Companies even depreciate their assets such as computers for tax deduction purposes. If a company buys a car in its name, but the boss drives the car, the company gets a tax deduction for that, which is why a boss would buy a huge BMW 7 series in the company's name because of the tax implications. Do a course you moron and argue based on information, not just in principle. For example, you challenge Patrick, but what is your counter-argument to prove that he is wrong? You are in the same league as Malema and that clown called Cape Town Kid

Lucky Ralawe to jonboy 7/13/2009 4:45:42 PM
The current BEE model was agreed to by the powers that be during the CODESA negotiations. It was either that or nationalisation. You and I may not be happy with it, but hey, it's the law. So stuff you

Anon 7/13/2009 4:59:02 PM
@ colin 2:16:53 PM, we would not have children going to bed hungry if all corruption and government money wasting is stopped immediately i.e. R600mil tender corruption, R80mil Gateway Project discrepancies, SAPS Legal Services paying more money for consulting legal services than what is actually claimed from them in civil suits, Paying R35000 / month for MP houses if other state owned and recently renovated houses stand empty, R80mil Eastern Cape HOP House discrepancies, R75mil inuaguration party, etc, etc. I can go on and on. The biggest waste of money by the government is due to their ineffectiveness, billions could be saved. I hope you get the point that we as public citizens need to say "Enough is Enough, NO MORE!!!!!!" And please do not come with Zuma will solve all our problems, this is happening currently under his Rule, not that of Mbeki. I actually do not supportr any political party, just supprot what I feel is right and apposed to what is wrong. I was also a worker so I do understand what it is to have no money for food, I went to bed hungry many times.

Mumbojumbo 7/13/2009 5:41:28 PM
Just a simple observation. Is not all commodities ruled by simple supply and demand? Labour is also a commodity ... whether you like it or not, yes you too have a price in the labour market. Commie scum (you know who you are) think that the rules of supply and demand only come into play when it suits them. So labour being a commodity , whatup with wage demands and strikes in a country where the supply of low and unskilled labour far outstrips the demand. So commies go to China go see what labour is worth under a commie regime. Lekker.

Ace_of_Spades 7/13/2009 6:01:43 PM
Wow, I'd like to know the ages of the people commenting here. I am 22 and it looks like a bunch of racist 16 year-olds.

emma 7/13/2009 6:03:14 PM
When you take the attitude that you should rather buy yourself an expensive car or like GERHARD start your own building company - ha-ha my friend I know a building company who had the same attitude, they got millions and millions worth of projects but within a year they collapsed, why because they also paid their employees the least they could and tried to squeeze the most they could out of them, almost all their qualified people left first, collapsed within a year, now those directors are also the workers on the site, serves them right.

Lize 7/13/2009 9:23:58 PM
@SimonP- I fully agree. Communism have and will never work. All Ideologies seems like a good idea at first, but seems to exclude the most important variable - The human entity. The only variable it could not survive without. We humans ARE flawed and ANY ideology is just that - an IDEAL. So to all the communist in this forum take off your rose tinted glasses.

fern @ Ace_of_Spades 7/13/2009 11:12:58 PM
Yes and the author is the biggest one of them all. At least today's 16 year olds bear no resemblance to this.

Grant 7/14/2009 1:35:39 AM
Sad to see such racism in this kind of article. To the moderate, intelligent, reasonable black people out there . . . please accept my white apology on behalf of the racist white author of this article. Please know that deep, deep, deep down . . . us whites are not all like the author. I think "Cape Town Kid"'s response summation here below is quite accurate. The big picture is; we need strong, integritous & brave, black & white leadership in SA + proper education for all citizens. Properity and peace will follow. Thing is . . . for both blacks & whites . . . old habits die hard

Chappy 7/14/2009 10:25:40 AM
I was listening to the representative from NUM this morning and when asked about the new proposal from the stakeholders, his comment was "If they don't give us what we ask for we won't listen to them". How is our country supposed to operate with idiots like this running the unions??? Aren't they supposed to NEGOTIATE?!! The "new power" in SA have forgotten about the struggle that got them into power in the first place and now expect everything to be handed to them on a platter. Success takes hard work. They will continue to blame everything and take responsibility for nothing.

Capital Q @ Grant 7/14/2009 11:10:52 AM
Grant! What are you on about? The article was in no way racist. How can you claim to talk for anyone other than yourself? The article was actually calling the intelligence of Canadian investors into question as well as the unions who do not have a CLUE about real finances - they just want more and more and more. If there are no jobs, how will unions get their membership fees and afford all the new t-shirts and posters? Do you REALLY think unions give a damn about the real workers? If you have not yet seen through the unions' political and enrichment agenda in this country then you are blind my friend. If you agree with CTK - you need to check your facts. The only part you said which means anything is the last sentence.

Jacob Showermaster 7/15/2009 4:39:46 PM
They should have sacrificed the mine supervisors and thrown dynamite down the shafts of the mine so the workers would be burried alive. Then we would have seen if they want permanent jobs or not

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