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George Annandale

South Africa
News24 User

Leeches of society

by George Annandale
2009-07-01 10:10

The current strike by medical practitioners is leaving a bitter taste. I am a firm believer in the principle that professional people have to earn their stripes, so to speak. I initially thought these counter-revolutionary prima donnas should be drawn and quartered but it seems this issue goes deeper than the underpayment of interns.

As in all conflicts and differences of opinion, there are two sides to this story and both deserved to be judged objectively. Unfortunately we live in a time where lies and deceit is the norm and we do not quite know who or what to believe. I recall a recent survey suggesting the majority of South Africans do not really have serious moral dilemmas with dishonesty. Given this and the government's well-documented propensity to lie and deceive, I'm inclined to believe the doctors.

I am convinced that the assertion, by striking doctors, that the government's version of the salary offer is a twisted version of the truth. The mere fact that famous spokesperson Castro Hadebe, related the governments version, of the story raises eyebrows, not that I'm accusing Mr Hadebe of lying, it is just that he also told us, not so long ago, with a straight face, that there was no cholera outbreak in the country. However, if Trevor Manual can deny the existence of a raging recession, how can we blame Mr Hadebe for being less than honest?

Be that as it may. It seems the intern doctors are the only ones satisfied with the increase. Other doctors however are far from happy. It seems the government are more concerned and attentive to unionised workers and rogue taxi drivers, sowing anarchy and chaos, than in doctors, who are the backbone of our health system, a fact that will be vigorously denied by the minister and government bureaucrats. They will tell you the pride derived from the hospital renaming project outweighs traditional medical imperialist health standards.

Unsurprising approach

The approach of the government is not surprising considering the renaming of hospitals and the formulation of strategies to reform private health care takes precedence over the treatment of HIV/Aids sufferers, an approach which resulted in the deaths of 400 000 people. The government's attitude towards state health care is also clearly illustrated in the way they treat the sharply dropping life expectancy of South Africans.

The fact that the average South African's life expectancy has dropped by 10 years since 1994 did not raise an eyebrow in governmental circles or in the Department of Health indicating a total disregard for the wellbeing of the average South African. The government focus is on visible issues rather than the invisible.

Maybe we expect too much in a country where leaders openly promote witchdoctors and traditional healers who dispense concoctions containing anything from vegetables to animal poo and human body parts for ailments ranging from the sniffles to cancer and serious mental disturbances.

How can we expect respect for medical practitioners when Tokyo Sexwale lends credibility to witchdoctors and charlatans in the Eastern Cape? How can we be serious about health care when people like Manto Tshabalala-Msimang are given hero status by the ANC government? How does the continual support and promotion and protection of cadres like Peggy Nkonyeni and Sibongile Manana, both former health MEC's and zealous supporters of witchdoctors, traditional healers and their "Healing concoctions"?

The distorted focus of the bureaucrats in the department of health, with the full support of the ANC government, current and past, resulted in a spectacular collapse in service, bloated salaries for bureaucrats, and raging corruption. The importance of medical professionals was relegated to the pending file and their plight ignored.

Because of their status as professionals, who are not generally unionised, it was assumed they would desist from industrial action. The uproar from some quarters about the Hippocratic Oath being ignored rings hollow when we consider the number of fellow citizens killed on a daily basis by government policy, traditional beliefs and administrative bungling of the Department of Health.

I am totally against strikes and the disproportionate power given to workers and unions. I can however not blame medical professionals for their actions in a society where we walk with the Union gun held constantly at hour heads and where their demands supersede the wishes of everyone else. When it is acceptable for Emergency workers to strike with impunity, how can we blame the doctors for doing the same?

Sad reality

Miners and factory workers are allowed to destroy the engine of our economy whilst causing "acceptable" mayhem and destruction of property but heaven forbid doctors protesting. The attitude of government are epitomised by the statement of the Department of Health in the Eastern Cape who proudly declared, "We have identified the instigators, wrote them letters and will take further action if deemed necessary". In the mean time Gwede Mantashe, and others in government, solemnly declare their support for the democratic right of the worker to strike. Why is this? The Cosatu vote is important; the doctor's vote is insignificant.

Whilst this is going on, good doctors leave South Africa in droves. The sad reality of the exodus is that it robs us from our better doctors. The more recently qualified doctors, because of the deliberate "dumbing down" applied at Universities, in the interest of affirmative action, will find it more difficult to find jobs in modern countries.

When I heard about doctors, walking out at Groote Schuur Hospital it saddened me. Here we have, what was, a bastion of achievement and excellence in the world of medical science, an institution that gave us one of the biggest medical achievements in human memory, reduced to a disgusting third world shambles, all in the name of transformation.

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WILDFIRE 7/1/2009 10:28:05 AM
Pay them what they are worth. You pay peanuts , you get monkeys.

Mark V 7/1/2009 10:29:33 AM
All the ANCheeple should just keep quiet and wait for jesus Zuma to fix it all.

Juan 7/1/2009 10:31:57 AM
Government's garlic/aids denial policies has caused the PREVENTABLE deaths of more than 300 000 people. The apartheid government killed a fraction of this amount of people. Makes you think...

Doc Lize 7/1/2009 10:32:10 AM
Medical officers and Registrars (Specialists in training) have been offered an effective 4% increase. The minister thought if he offered the interns an 60% increase, the strike will be over. He must have had an unpleasant surprise. The MO's supported the Interns, now the Interns will support the other doctors. The strike will carry on and become more widespread, until all doctors receive a better offer.

krrrrrr...! 7/1/2009 10:40:15 AM
money is motivatation, if u r paid well...u r motivated to do your job well...

morena 7/1/2009 10:42:49 AM
this article was good up untill you started insulting people's believes, i don't consult sangomas nor traditional healers but you don't see me writing an article bashing them and thier patients, goes to show how white SA's are

Mzi 7/1/2009 10:45:08 AM
Very weak analysis and lack of judgment from the author. When Hadebe and manuel made those comments, they were no proven facts that recession or cholera might exist in south africa. Any government would misjudge situations like these, your unconstructive criticism are starting to frustrate even the men on the street.

Clearly you do not understand these country's background and I suggest you read more or relocate to join your kind who left already. traditional healers are successfully healing atleast 50% of south africans, thousands consult daily to these people. they might not have the qualifications but have the natural gift of diagnosing some illnesses that doctors failed to heal. Our forefathers survived the worst pains because of the traditional doctors. I do not expect you understand but rather keep quiet if you are not clued up with history.

Renaming of streets and hospitals is necessary, we are now living in a democratic country. those apartheid racist names should be permanently removed from our faces. Everyone is free to leave the country if you are not satisfied, we have good doctors and CAs at hand to replace all bigheaded citizens. SA have the resources and the beauty, it is everyone's wish to work here. those unearned privileges of white people should be eliminated in south africa.

Punani 7/1/2009 10:45:43 AM
Well written article. It is about time that we ignore being politically correct and telling it like it is. We are headed down them same destructive path as all the other African countries. Most of our government officials are not capable of running a spaza shop, let alone a country. Let's see a witch doctor do Manto's liver transplant. Ignorance is bliss.

Rich 7/1/2009 10:46:07 AM
Well written George. As it stands, government is picking random Drs and serving them with notice letters to scare the others back to work!!! They have also tried to seperate the medical fraternity by offering the Interns and Registars a good increase while the backbone of the health system (Medical officers) have been given about R300 per month extra. See www.transmedx.co.za

maria mabusa 7/1/2009 10:52:07 AM
you are so out of touch it is sad, catch a wake up, you are embarassing yourself.

SimonP 7/1/2009 10:53:02 AM
@George, is it not obvious to you that the whole cause of the decline in health services and the "lied to" doctors is the fault of Apartheid. How dare you point out an ANC minister lying, you must know that if the ANC say it, it must be believed any dessenters should leave NOW! Viva shambles viva!

morena 7/1/2009 10:54:41 AM
this article is full of facts and racist agendas, intolorance, top of it bitterness

marcel 7/1/2009 10:56:29 AM
Thanks for the letter George. You start by saying there are two sides to this story which deserve to be heard, but then proceed to choose the one side and state you support them. Which is cool, that's your right. But don't forget what you yourself said, there are two sides to this and as with most things, the answer most probably lies somewhere in the middle. Oh, and thanks for getting affirmative action in there at the end, you had me worried for a second.

Phinah 7/1/2009 11:02:20 AM
I fully support the Drs. This is utter nonsense. If the poorer are affected by this strike, then they should help out this striking doctors and push their own government "which they have massively voted for" to pay the Drs a better salary. Damn to the ANC, putting change of names for streets, towns, hospitals before the health of the very same people who have voted them in. If Zuma & his ministers are so concerned about the health of the poorer, then they should take a salary cut, which we all know it will never happen. Stop claiming that Drs are performing essential services and therefore should not go on strikes? I just dont know if essential services can buy groceries & pay for a person's education. What is so sad is that the same people that are in need have been threatened to either be fired or suspended. This must be the best joke I have heard this year. Somebody please tell the ANC that DRs are in demand, globally and recession does not apply in their field.

Phinah 7/1/2009 11:02:21 AM
I fully support the Drs. This is utter nonsense. If the poorer are affected by this strike, then they should help out this striking doctors and push their own government "which they have massively voted for" to pay the Drs a better salary. Damn to the ANC, putting change of names for streets, towns, hospitals before the health of the very same people who have voted them in. If Zuma & his ministers are so concerned about the health of the poorer, then they should take a salary cut, which we all know it will never happen. Stop claiming that Drs are performing essential services and therefore should not go on strikes? I just dont know if essential services can buy groceries & pay for a person's education. What is so sad is that the same people that are in need have been threatened to either be fired or suspended. This must be the best joke I have heard this year. Somebody please tell the ANC that DRs are in demand, globally and recession does not apply in their field.

Simonp 7/1/2009 11:05:10 AM
@Morena "this article is full of facts" On my god someone has stated facts, thats despicable

Mark V @morena 7/1/2009 11:08:44 AM
So you do agree that the article is full of facts?

SimonP 7/1/2009 11:08:56 AM
@Mzi "traditional healers are successfully healing atleast 50% of south africans" Of what? Once again you dispaly your unabated loyalty to the ANC by agreeing with them regardless. What a surprise, if you dont like it LEAVE. Mzi, if the ANC told you that you were white you would believe it. You crease me up.

Juan 7/1/2009 11:11:32 AM
I wash my hands! People are voting for their own demise! - Unfortunately the more evolved amongst us are also dragged down.

Eles 7/1/2009 11:13:32 AM
I agree with you - pay no attention to those who don't consider their arguments no facts as usual. @ Morena exactly what is racist about expecting government employees to do the work they are supposed to (crisis what crisis these are challenges.... that they create by not doing their jobs) I agree 150% if not more re not dropping standards tell me if you are on the operating table would you want a brilliant surgeon to operate or someone who just sneaked through? Stop making this about race just because most government employees are black does not mean anyone is saying black people are not capable at all. It just means the ANC policy of deploying friends into positions of importance and impact is really really not working and they need to appoint the right people for the job - for proof consider the pathetic state of institutions and departments need I go on - this country is an embarassment!

morena 7/1/2009 11:14:29 AM
(Miners and factory workers are allowed to destroy the engine of our economy whilst causing "acceptable" mayhem and destruction of property) so according to you the miner be exploited and and send to unsafe mines to go work, i bet you saying this about miners because 99.9% of em are black, hell miners are exploited at same level as doctors if not more but they mustn't complain according to you

AJ @ Morena 7/1/2009 11:14:58 AM
Morena you state you were enjoying teh article up until the end when 'traditional medicine' was 'insulted'. NOw you say the article is full of racist agenda's and tolerance and FACTS. So if it is factual and you think it is also racist, what does that tell you. Perhaps another read is in order, you goldfish.

Sarah 7/1/2009 11:16:07 AM
This is not complicated. We HAVE to trust these doctors with our lives, so we HAVE to attend to their needs. They are currently being pressed to work shifts as long as 37 hours at a time. They barely get to see their families. They can't even afford to support their families adequately because their remuneration is so low. We have to see their point - They simply can not survive like this any more. There is proof that a deal was cut last year & has been ignored by government - Had the issue been dealt with last year, we would not be where we are right now. The government need to sort this out fast, before people start dying.

fern 7/1/2009 11:19:05 AM
Another article by the right-winger. You can make comments like "deliberate "dumbing down all you like. I can also thumb suck.

Postcolonialist 7/1/2009 11:20:45 AM
George - I am perhaps not quite grasping the core argument here. If it is simply that you object to Medics striking, then I retract my opening line. Should Medics strike? Hmmm ... a tough one. In SA, they are paid peanuts, work in an appallingly mismanaged system ... and are expected to work absurdly long shifts ... I don't LIKE them striking. But I don't blame them for public voicing of terminal frustration. The old one of "What about your oaths?" is bollocks ... an oath does not pay the bills. And when a Secretary makes what you make as a Medic (with MUCH, MUCH less responsibility!) ... you do begin to ask questions.My wife (a dreaded "foreign" doctor) tried for two years to offer her services at peanut money ... the HPCSA are STILL sitting on her papers. In the meanwhile, we have relocated elsewhere on the planet. I do not understand the Health bodies in SA. They complain about loss of Medics to other countries, they dawdle when 1st-World trained docs offer services for a few years, they underpay the Medics in SA ... and b1tch about even TRYING to pay them adequately. The (il)logic defies analysis.Should Medics strike? Who knows? But I sympathize with them. A lot.Just my 5c worth ...

Vuvuzela man 7/1/2009 11:21:22 AM
@George-Why is it wrong for Tokyo or any other person to support traditional leaders? I'm talking about real traditional leaders not those that are taking chances and kill people.It is unfortunate that when our african healing ways heal people it is not published but when people's limbs are used by these chancers all traditional leaders are brandished as witches and something that should not be looked at.At UKZN-Med school they have a department that looks at traditional medicine and the contribution it can make in solving modern illnesses like AIDS.It's headed by one of the respected Prefessors,who is deputy dean of that Med school.Do not discount our medical ways based on a few utterances/publications in the media. Secondly:Are public hospital doctors worth what they are demanding? Given the quality of service they are rendering.You do not need expensive equipment to confirm when a pregnant lady is due to give birth.People are told they are not due to deliver and they deliver on their way back home. Some basic procedures are not followed in diagnosing a person and these only need your brains and hands but are not done and people die but a doctor with the same qualifications who works at a private practice does this,why?? Many of them say they did medicine coz they like helping people not 4 the love of money,why are they not doing their work properly? In fact as far as i see, the current situation in hospitals during the strike is the same as in the normal time that they are there,public hospital doctors are unhelpful, are they giving us value even for those peanuts we are giving them as taxpayers?

Riaan 7/1/2009 11:23:55 AM
I have to agree with the author as this has been my first hand experience. I am a doctor currently working in the private sector but both my wife and mother are both doctors in the public sector. It was thus quite exciting to hear of my wife's big pay increase from the spokesman mentioned above. Upon mentioning this to my wife, I was met with a 'it's not true ...'. I have been studying the government pay offers meticulously as they have been examined by advisors/accountants from SAMA and the reported pay increases that the government fed to the media is all but the truth, to say the least. They have used all kinds of clever tricks to 'wangle' the proposals, such that my wife will probably get about 8% increase, my mother about 4% and some highest paid professors about 2%.

I believe the government is out to make the doctors look bad in their continued strike efforts and refusal of such 'incredible' increase proposals.

Danie 7/1/2009 11:29:38 AM
This is a very good article and if i can judge by some of the comments you get, it is clear that the truth hurts.

Juan 7/1/2009 11:31:09 AM
It's SCARY that the majority of the electorate DOESN'T CARE that anc's polecies have SHORTENED everyone's average life expectancy by TEN YEARS!!!

Mark V @Mzi 7/1/2009 11:33:25 AM
Is the exhorbitent amount of tax that I pay not enough to satisfy your greed? OR is it my ability to manage my money that irks you? I am white - I paid for my own studies. I had 2 pairs of trousers and two pairs of shoes while in high school. Stop your nonsense about unfair privilages etc. You are like a dinosour stuck in the ice age looking for the sun to warm you and blaming the seals who learnt to swim to warmer land for your inability to swim. Oh - and I await you calling me a racist, counter revolutionary et al. For an educated person you are stuck in the past so much that it clouds your ability to rationally think instead of complain.

Bamba 7/1/2009 11:35:13 AM
Mzi must either be smoking gunga or is taking the micky to get a rise from others. "We have good doctors to replace"???. Where does the good Mzi keep these Doctors that are so desperately required - under his bed?

Mark V @ Fern 7/1/2009 11:35:56 AM
Just because the writer does not agree with your viewpoint he is a rightwinger? You are right about you being able to thumbsuck.

Spiderman @ Mzi 7/1/2009 11:36:12 AM
If I leave this country my friend (which is in the pipeline), who are going to pay your social grant so that you can sit in front of your PC and pay for internet?

Mark V @Juan 7/1/2009 11:37:44 AM
It is not scary - it is stupid!

Anon 7/1/2009 11:37:58 AM
@Mzi - traditional healers are successfully healing atleast 50% of south africans" - Please state facts not your own personal experience where your brother was cured of mental problems but you were not!
"Everyone is free to leave the country if you are not satisfied, we have good doctors and CAs at hand to replace all bigheaded citizens." - so is that why government is asking professionals to return?
@Juan - so true, this government has killed much more people with their denial and inadequacy than the apartheid government ever could.

ria 7/1/2009 11:39:21 AM
VIVA George! VIVA Punani! Let's see those witchdoctors cure alcoholism and kleptomania as well. Why didn't that woman cure herself with concoctions of beetroot and garlic? The public health sector is already in a shambles. Now they want to muck up the private health sector as well with a national medical aid concoction

Logan 7/1/2009 11:45:05 AM
can you guys stop saying the same crap over and over again! I think it's wonderful that doctors are finally uniting in mass action for their grievances. They should be compensated justly, and even more important their working conditions need to improve. We should all support them in their bid, and look at how we can all unite when it comes to other issues in this country as it affects us all, from crime to service delivery. A protest from citizens regarding these issues cannot go unheeded. But we need to leave out racial lines along which we judge each other, and for once do some in unison.

Gerhard 7/1/2009 11:45:08 AM
Interesting. The public health services is eroding, and has done so for many years. Now the Government wants to extend that to the private health companies. An then, the cherry on the cake, they want to build a new NHS on top of this collapsing infrastructure. Oh, boy...how pathetic.

morena 7/1/2009 11:45:56 AM
@AJ and Mark yes the article holds water but you don't have to be racist to make you point, will it be ok for me to say aparheid was bad because of the bloody dutchman and thier ilk

Rich 7/1/2009 11:46:08 AM
@maria mabuo. How is George out of touch. The government has blindfolded its followers and is feeding them lies!!! They are also using there lap dog COSATU to rally up support for there attempt to keep the government gravy train going, with no concern about the health of the nation and its people!!!

@Mzi 7/1/2009 11:51:45 AM
Traditional healers work?! Man, have you seen the pamphlets they hand out in CT? You can pay to win the lotto, to get married, to have spirits exorcised, to have something bad happen to your boss. The only things sanguma's cure, are heavy wallets.

Juan - Traditional healers are SCUM!! 7/1/2009 11:53:15 AM
They say raping babies will cure aids, and have innocent people brutally murdered for muti (which has NO scientifically proven success) It's sick, but there are people stupid and barbaric enough to believe these 'healers'.

nigel 7/1/2009 11:53:49 AM
The fact that the ANC have made an absolute mess out of most things used to work is clear as daylight & some ANC supporters are starting to see the light. The problem is that the black South Africans don't seem to have a plan to follow should the ANC continue to be fail on its delivery. It's not like they will vote for another party...they think that is the ANC fails again, they just change the leader, like they did with Mbekie, what they don't realise is that it's not one person that makes or breaks a govt. its the political party that is the problem. Re your letter, the govt. seems to have two sets of rules, one for soft easy targets (like taxpayers, medical professionals & law abiding citizens)& another for militant, threatening organisations, like the taxi industry, COSATU, ANCYL etc. The comments here from some ANC supporters just shows their absolute ignorance, incompetence & arrogance. Quite a dangerous mix, exactly the right mix for failure.

@morena 7/1/2009 11:54:29 AM
Racist agena's? You know what morena, the government FAILED the health department, and the doctors. Sangomas are prevalent in South Africa, and their bullshit remedies. Racist agenda's? YOU mean, you cant handle the truth, and instead try to divert it by crying racism. Typical anc fanboy.

James 7/1/2009 11:55:39 AM
What is more scary is when one takes a look at the advertisements in a newspaper like the Citizen, where (Dr) this or that guarantees the return of a lover, or a more magnificent erection by use of traditional meds. Undoubtedly at a huge price, and dragging gullible traditionalists into their web. All the HIV infected had plenty access to traditional meds, and look where they are now!

Postcolonialist - comments to Vuvuzela man 7/1/2009 11:57:28 AM
Hi VM, no issue with most of what you say, in fact, much of it is quite true. The only point that I wish to comment on is on your note of "Many of them say they did medicine coz they like helping people not 4 the love of money,why are they not doing their work properly?" ... yes, you are correct. Medicine IS a vocation, not just "a job". This does NOT mean that you simply pay peanuts ... and abuse the devotion to service of these really, really key professionals (here I refer to Doctors AND Nurses). There is a whole ancilliary argument about poor attitude to service - but that is for another column!

Mandy @ Fern 7/1/2009 12:01:52 PM
Nothing to do with right-winger bullshit. It is the truth which I know hurts. Why don't you take your finger out your nose and get your facts straight before trying to post shitty comments.

@anc 7/1/2009 12:02:00 PM
YOU want to force your universal healthcare system on us. YOU want those that can afford it, to give up private healthcare. All the meanwhile, treating the same doctors, that will be the backbone of the public healthcare system, like dogs. "Some" people though, that JZ's ANC will fix things, all the meanwhile, he's driving South Africa into the ground quicker than Mbeki's ANC did.

Alex 7/1/2009 12:02:51 PM
@Mzi "traditional healers are successfully healing atleast 50% of south africans"
Maybe but other 50% ends up with kidney and liver failure. My wife sees quite a few patients that used traditional medicines and it is not pretty.
Regarding increases, next month we can see if it is 90% or 8%, no accounting gymnastic can beat hard numbers.

UpToHere 7/1/2009 12:03:24 PM
Thanks George, well written!
@MZI...KZN is not called the smelly armpits of the medical fraternity for nothing, good luck with getting Dr's to replace the fired and resigned ones!!

Vuvuzela man 7/1/2009 12:05:00 PM
@Riaan-Why do you people turn patients at hospital when you have the basic equipment required to help the people?
Do you think the service the public is getting from your mom,wife and their colleagues in public hospitals is worth even what they are earning,given the fact that most of you guys go this route to help and not for the love of money?
Forget about the conditions or availability of equipment,some basic things do not require
expensive equipment but you and your stethoscope.

@anc south-africa 7/1/2009 12:06:37 PM
The ANC government killed more south africans than the apartheid government. If YOU allow things to carry on like this, pretty soon white south africa, will be the majority.

terry 7/1/2009 12:11:39 PM
SA public medical is in tatters ... PAY THEM ! Education and health are the most important government departments and should be/are a yard stick in measuring government performance . These are our worst ministries when it comes to delivery .... this is what happens when ministers continually jump/trade portfolio's , what the hell does someone in (eg:) tourism now know about the medical industry . Get people in that are veterans in the industry who know what the system needs , this is not rocket science . A budget is set by finance and allocated to the minister of health , where is that money going ? where is the breakdown on the allocation of those funds to the various sectors and the motivations for those funds . Where is the transparency & accountability ? These people are assets to the country who we treat like trash , no wonder they emmigrate ...because they are valued in every other coutry in the world ? Oh ... please tell me what revolution is happening ?

fern @ mark 7/1/2009 12:16:25 PM
Because his article resemble propaganda against anything South African. But it's ok. I expect sympathizers like you.

Halfwise 7/1/2009 12:16:29 PM
WILDFIRE - are you still alive I missed your idiotic comments!!!

Quite 7/1/2009 12:19:06 PM
Please people take care of your job.I have been retrenched from Standard Bank and many others,this is still not public.

Mark V @morena 7/1/2009 12:19:21 PM
If you are referring to me then where in any of my posts did I refer to race? A bad workman always blames his tools. The gov have all the tools - money, resources etc and are still stuffing it up. Boyth of them - ANC and DA.

vankuijeren14@traditionals 7/1/2009 12:21:43 PM
close all state hospitals,convert all the docs,nurses etc into witch doctors,pay them in animal skins and beads and we have our problem sorted...the masses are glad because everything is back to traditional ways(gone is all the horrible western medical equipment,god knows how useless it is compared to a few bones and some root)the hospitals are free thanks to all our new withdoctors roaming the countyside sleeping under holy tree's and other wonderfully unknown medicinal hotspots,healing as they roam...
and us us silly whiteys can build our silly medical centres and proceed to off ourselves thru the practice of western medicine...
maybe we should also train a few pshycics and have them point out to the witch doctors who is need of a bit of root...
stupid i know but then again thats whats going on here...a bunch of stupid wrapped up as stupid and delivered in a pretty anc package...PAY THE DAMN DOCTORS OR RISK A TRADITIONAL MESS

Greg 7/1/2009 12:21:47 PM
Fact: the more of these ignorant unintelligent aids sufferers receive treatment from Traditional Healers, the more quickly the virus spreads amongst there own, the more quickly they die, scary thought... and this needs to stop, these people need to be treated properly! Population downsizing, and i bet you its sick ANC policy.

Vuvuzela man 7/1/2009 12:27:49 PM
@All Anti traditional healers-Guys i do not tink it would be rational for someone who does not follow English soccer to say it's the worst league in the world.In their reasoning the person says it's full of alcoholics like Roy Keane,Paul Gascoine, Gerrard,Robinho.These guys might have drunk and some beat up some people in clubs but does that mean everyone in the league is bad? For someone who doesn't follow the league this is the worste league as per the headline.
There are many chancers killing people out there in the name of traditional healing but does that mean this sector is bad? Until you have familiarised yourself with the traditional healing or you have enough information it is incorrect to bash it because you are not fully informed.

nigel 7/1/2009 12:27:58 PM
@ morena, Mzi & others..read this article, this is how the world sees ANC lead SA, not a pretty picture is it? .http://www.theledger.com/article/20090630/ZNYT03/906303015?Title=Vigilante-Justice-and-Constant-Fear-in-South-Africa-Slum

saproudly 7/1/2009 12:28:23 PM
@George : It looks like you used the doctor's strike to get out your own frustrations that have nothing to do with the strikes. You just sound so bitter about government. The way you have falsely used unsubstantiated so called facts to support your argument is annoying.

1.How can you sit there and say the average LIFE span has shortened since 94. What a joke, you are clearly not speaking about the previously disadvantaged. Some of us never had a hospital to go to in the first place. We were either killed by the police, died in jail or died from starvation. So who exactly had this long life span? You and your parents?

2. Where does a "Caucasian" guy get the right to "dis" traditional medicine? You are playing on dangerous ground here. Your western believes do not make everyone one else wrong. Do your own research on this, even western medicine is based on traditional medicine. Where do you think the use of Aloe originated from? Where do you think herbs come from?

3. Trevor Manual denying a recession, clearly you are not an economist or anything close because you would know what a definition of a recession is.

My "friend" if you hate South Africa so much then please just leave us to be. You just sound like someone who lost elections by a landslide and now you are so so bitter.

Why can't you guys get it that your fore fathers screwed up the system and it is not going to take a day to fix it?

Postcolonialist @Vuvuzela man - Whoa, Dude! 7/1/2009 12:30:31 PM
Hey, VM, slow down a notch there (your 12:05 comment to Riaan). You cannot "forget about conditions" - said conditions make or break the ability to actually DO the job. You are quite right when you say "some basic things do not require expensive equipment but you and your stethoscope". But the whole issue of 1st/2nd/3rd line medical attention also needs addressing. You will be very hard-pressed to find a Doctor who will "just turn away" a patient. Dig deeper - it is very, very seldom that simple or easy. You also need to look "up" the chain at healthcare institutions - at the administrators and so on who issue edicts on who may or may not be treated. And these people are frequently NON-medically trained. Go figure. Other than that, have a good day!

Mark V @fern 7/1/2009 12:33:48 PM
Oh - sorry - the holy grail of demise, lies and deceipt that's been plagueing this continent since when is South African and must be respected?

Poloyatonki 7/1/2009 12:39:00 PM
@George - Groote Schuur Hospital’s achievements were achieved during apartheid so they are not recognizable….your article is crap!!

saproudly 7/1/2009 12:39:22 PM
@Mzi: your first response on this article is spot on... I can't even add on. AMEN.

@ Juan and co:If you don't like us then leave us, don't make funny excuses because you don't have life as easy as you used to have it.

To people like myself who had never had anything South Africa is great place now more than any other time. So if you want to criticize then please find better methods of doing it. Because this article just reads like a bitter white man. I agree that Doctors need better working conditions but why the need to belittle people's believes and use mis-guided facts intentionally. Nee man!

Mark V @Vuvuzela man 7/1/2009 12:40:45 PM
Agree with your post to Riaan. Are politicians not also supposed to do what they are doing as a SERVICE and not for the love of money? They set the example, they reap the rewards, we foot the bill.

ENrust 7/1/2009 12:43:12 PM
George, i agree with most of the things you said but i just have to say that white people have a way of judging certain things about the african culture that they are utterly clueless about. Please do not make insulting comments about culture (witchdoctors) and stick to topics that you know (politics, etc.). I am honestly offended!

@ Mzi - TAKE NOTE: 7/1/2009 12:43:36 PM
What frightens me the most about this country, is the really unintelligent people that think they are in fact 'intelligent', like Mzi, who are absolutely focused on 'transformation' at the expense of their own people, so the fortunate few can see visible changes. It is frightening to think that an adult man, can even justify the use of a traditional healer with regards to the treating of a VIRUS, with only herbs and natural remedies. This alone, proves how ignorant and unintelligent these people are. Every time I read, MZI's comments i feel disappointed that this is his level of intelligence. Why are these people so subjective? why do they have such a bias? Easy answer, inferiority complex and a thus feels he has to prove himself. My friend Mzi, in REALITY, in business, on GLOBAL standards, away from your silly ANC, imagine, you are below the acceptable avg, you are not suited to lead, you are subjective and therefore unable to make rational decisions, you are only capable of being a sheep/follower, you are not truly empowered, you are proof that transformation, skills development, & BEEE is failing this country. Advice now friend, every time you make silly assumptions and justify your leaders actions etc, blindly, you actually make yourself seem unintelligent and further justify our reasoning that you are in fact unintelligent,and you and your race are not benefiting from transformation but are in fact further declining. i.e. fueling the stigma. Take some advice, think before you post, intelligent ppl do read, ppl do assume, ppl assume, thanks to your own posts, that you are a fool with no credibility. An embarrassment, to those that do actually add value.

Spoonfeederxxx@MZI 7/1/2009 12:46:11 PM
Dude, you racist pig...

You see that shirt you are wearing, your ancestors didn't invent them...

Go back to your ancestoral ways, which reminds me, do you remember how to make flour from mealies? No? That's because those white you insult had the intelligence and the initiative to create shops and techniques that you sadly overlook... I reiterate, how do you tell a moron he's a moron? Well done black man on your outstanding contribution to the modern world...

CTheB 7/1/2009 12:55:36 PM
It's very simple - the doctors aren't thugs and don't go around threatening and killing people or destroying property when they don't get their way. The government sees no need to take them as seriously as the taxi mafia.

fern @ mark 7/1/2009 12:57:08 PM
rephrase?

I'd rather live with general gov lies and deceit than the lies and deceit we had pre 94. Making us believe in the swaat gevaar and sending our mates and brothers to fight a border war.

saproudly 7/1/2009 12:57:20 PM
If you support ANC you are obviously not intelligent???? SimonP,Juan how hateful and naive can you people get...

Postcolonialist - would all sides DROP the racist nonsense? 7/1/2009 12:58:17 PM
Insulting each other on the basis of race or alleged intellectual deficiency or other perhaps RELATED, but non-causal items. I don't give a flying **** what race my Doctor/Nurse is ... or the Minister of Health or whatever. All I care about is the quality of care. And appropriate levels of reward for the care-givers. Tossing sharp things at each other is not helping. Debate. Discuss. But stop the absurd name-calling and primary-school silliness.Sheesh ...

Billy Hill 7/1/2009 12:59:48 PM
George, your grammar sucks and you can't hold two coherent thoughts at the same time. Your whinger type with it's stunted world view has nothing constructive to add to the continued development of this country.

vankuijeren14@saproudly 7/1/2009 1:00:44 PM
yup,they tested all the traditional medicines and remedies..they stuff that worked was used,its known as medicine....tradional guessing has no place next to scientific fact..

Mark V @ Polyatonki 7/1/2009 1:02:22 PM
So next time someone ion the world is going for a heart transplant you go and sing and dance in protest against the doctors for using "apartheid" methods to save a life. Are you really that absorbed in yourself that you fail to see the stupid l;ooking back from the mirror?

cedb00 7/1/2009 1:10:01 PM
To the author of post at 12:43:36: Brilliantly put. "The most dangerous people are those who don't know what they don't know...."

Mark V @fern 7/1/2009 1:11:43 PM
So would I. I just choose not to be (mis)led in my beliefs like the NATS was and like the current masses are. Re my earlier post: Critisizing the wrong does NOT make someone a racist OR a rightwinger. Did I like the NATS - NO. Do I like the ANC - NO. Will I critisize them both - YES. Am I a racist or rightwinger now?

samsam 7/1/2009 1:12:58 PM
Seriously speaking Drs are not allowed to strike, where is ethics, morality when people are dying, is this part of their training. There are inconsiderate of other peoples lives, what if this happens to you or your female member. Im happy that KZN has fired those BOGUS Drs and they have plan to recruit Drs from Zim 'n other countries

SimonP 7/1/2009 1:14:17 PM
@Poloyatonki: Not recognisable by who? You can ignore/disregard what you like but the facts speak for themselves

Piet Pompies 7/1/2009 1:15:51 PM
Good article. I hope more doctors leave the country and the place falls to pieces. That is what Africa is about. Idiots in Government. Now let them roast.!

@saproudly 7/1/2009 1:17:34 PM
SAproudly, if YOU hate South Africa so much, then please, continue voting ANC.

@Mzi 7/1/2009 1:18:52 PM
Mzi, you are one of those people, thats riding the current wave, were having an education is deemed 'elitist'.

@Billy Hill 7/1/2009 1:22:04 PM
If you ARE going to point out somebody's bad grammar, PLEASE ensure that your own grammar is correct.

@ Mark V 7/1/2009 1:25:33 PM
With regards to the first successful hart transplant. Didn't you hear it wasn't Chris Barnard who did it, but his lab assistant Hamilton Naki! Whites stole that world first achievement as well.

dr..? 7/1/2009 1:26:12 PM
When i read the news articles saying INTERNS would get R320 000 a year I couldnt help but laugh. We dont even clear R8000.00
They said we can get an increase of R250.00 which is a JOKE! this increase was offered apon taking AWAY all medical aid and accommodation options... WAIT!!! if we WORK for the GOVERNMENT why on earth do we need to pay TAX or medical aid???? If government officials dont??? ...

If you work out the hours we work per month we are getting R16 an hour if we're lucky... Working at McDonalds would let us earn MORE!

The nurses got 100% increase last year and we got 5%...

Its pretty retarded but why we're all applying overseas!!!! :-)

samsam 7/1/2009 1:26:27 PM
Seriously speaking Drs are not allowed to strike, where is ethics, morality when people are dying, is this part of their training. They are inconsiderate of other peoples lives, what if this happens to you or your family member. Im happy that KZN has fired those BOGUS Drs and they have a plan to recruit Drs from Zim 'n other countries

Anon 7/1/2009 1:40:50 PM
Someone should tell that blob who is the ANC spokesperson that people who die as a result of this action, the blood is on the ANC's hands, not the doctors. We have had completely incapable Ministers of Health since (get this) 1995, last but not least led by Dr. Beetroot. Typical of the ANC to take the moral high ground when they are the sole cause of this. The ANC, like Duarte earn OVER R1M a year (govnt ministers earn R1.6m in salary before add ons, this to mislead a nation), so how DARE they take any high ground when true professionals like Dr's and interns strike over pathetic pay and diabolical working conditions. In true form, these overpaid parasites called politicians (who all drive Million rand cars pretending to be SA's version of Tupac) have given empty promises, lies and distortions of the truth, not only to Dr's and interns, but to the general public. There was simply no other alternative but to strike, and sadly, the people that die, their families should look to the ANC for compensation for misleading a nation.

fern @ mark 7/1/2009 1:41:00 PM
You misunderstood me. This guy constantly posts negative articles. Nothing wrong with criticism of the gov. It should be encouraged. But with constant negative perceptions being created, not recognizing that many things are actually better and attempting to use innuendo to mask racist references is what I am talking about...

saproudly 7/1/2009 1:42:23 PM
Why can't we just have an intelligent debate or argument without insulting people?

mike 7/1/2009 1:46:09 PM
The new offer is likely to be accepted - not willingly, by any means. Government has shafted it's most diligent, hard working and dedicated employees.
So to those who feel the doctors are whining too much about a supposed bougeois lifestyle, please, in future, feel free to consult whoever the hell you please regarding any medical (real or imagined) complaints you may have. I hope they hasten the end of your life dramatically.
Interns and comm service doctors are NOT going to stay in the public sector after this insult, and neither would I if in the same position.
I have medical aid, and will continue to prioritise it over many other expenses. The ANC can't destroy private health care - who will the big guns go to if they do?
The ANC majority have brought this upon themselves - poetic justice, really.

SimonP 7/1/2009 1:46:48 PM
@samsam, if you were promised, yes promised, a pay rise and it didnt happen what would you do? If the govt make a public statement about your pay rise which is blatantly false what would you do? Probably block some roads and burn some tyres, am I right? You talk of ethics, where are the govts ethics?

G.Annandale 7/1/2009 1:49:15 PM
@saproudly. You can check the numbers in WHO reports and I do not recall anyone from government disputing these numbers.

If I am not prepared to accept dropping standards why is that interpreted as hate. People who glibly accept our slide into despair as acceptable are the true enemies of our country. The reason we are regressing lies with people who, because of their "painfull past", cannot accept the realities of present situation.

witch 7/1/2009 1:49:23 PM
lol Samsam

Mzozo 7/1/2009 1:59:14 PM
The article was in bad taste finish and klaar and it does not mean that just because the majority of people writing here praising the article are in the minority groups make the criticism of traditional healers right in any way

NorthernExposure 7/1/2009 1:59:36 PM
Lets try and look at this with a bit less emotion. Yes the hospitals took strain after 1994 with a much larger part of society afforded the oppertunity to make use of these institutions. Why then are all posts not filled at our hospitals? Why do they not pay the DR's to ensure that they stay? Does this not increase the dissatisfaction of the DR's? Hospitals that dont have enough beds having to treat patients without much needed equipment is part of what the Dr's are protesting against. We need to take a serious and hard look at our Health Systems and a lot needs to be done. No promises! Honest hard work needs to be done.

Avi 7/1/2009 2:08:51 PM
As no one can believe what the government representitives say, I agree that the Doctors, who knows what the real situation is, must go on striking untill ALL the requests are met. In the cause for any greater good, some people die. It is part of reality. Accept it and go on with life. All the best of luck to the striking Doctors....Give them Hell!!!

mia 7/1/2009 2:09:27 PM
Why should doctors, who have spent years training for their profession to serve the people of South Africa, take this amount of nonsense from government without taking some kind of action? I say strike on, brothers and sisters, it's about time government took you seriously.

Chucky 7/1/2009 2:15:31 PM
I find the author's views are factual and some comments, that some believe have racist undertones, is a manifestation of the frustrations held by many. I happen to deal with Government Hospitals and I can attest to the conditions, let alone the remuneration packages, medical staff have to operate in. Despite the advances that have been made politically, it is sad to see that, despite the honest efforts of many, South Africa has simply moved backwards in general - but, I suppose I am now racist for saying that?. Worst of all, however, is the denial of the situation and the belief that everything is still in control- mediocrity is now being celebrated! For you, my soon to be former fellow S-Africans, I bid you good luck and fare well - I have chosen a country I can be proud of all year round, not only for brief moments after yet another sports game.

Michael 7/1/2009 2:16:52 PM
Mzi.... If everyone who hated what the anc is doing to the country, left, as you suggest, this country would descend into anarchy and squalor. You'd be no better than our neighbours up north. Up sh!t creek without a paddle. So keep pushing that point of view, and remember the saying, "be careful what you wish for, you may get it". I don't know why Zuma doesn't just get on his personal line to God to sort this mess out, the man's connected.

Estelle 7/1/2009 2:22:01 PM
It is not only about receiving more money in their pockets. They want to work with technology and equipment that actually works - if there is equipment available. The hours doctors work is scary and they do not get overtime pay. Because there is not enough doctors, they have to work 3 of 4 peoples shifts and get paid for 1. it is just not fair. i support their strike fully.

witch 7/1/2009 2:25:28 PM
Samsam go talk to your local ANC branch. If they (the doctors) have spent the better part of 8 years training they are at least entitled to a living wage. I pay my homehelper R150 for 3 hours of work (subtracting her tea times and sitting chatting to me). Only the cleverest and the most hard-working make it through medical school). After that they have to work shifts in exces of 72 hours. I would not want a doctor deprived of 72 hours of sleep to attend to me. Studies have shown that after sleep deprivation people do not act sanely or rationally. It is a national scandal that we do not pay doctors, teachers and policemen a living wage. Politicians enjoy a luxureous lifestille. What a shame. They are the true parasites in this nation. And the soonest the people (the poor people) realise this the sooner we will have true democracy and not a sham based on friends for friends aad jobs for relatives and distant relatives

Joe 7/1/2009 2:40:27 PM
What most people don’t know is that the ANC, is pushing home remedies and witch doctors, cause they are trying to rush Evolution – Survival of the fittest, and only the strong survive”, otherwise some one is going to have to pay to look after their people.

Chris 7/1/2009 2:40:29 PM
If the government don't take the Doctors seriously,SA will loose them.The joke is over.It is a miracle that they lasted this long before striking,they should be commended for their endurance.Some facts - in Canada a small town of 15000 people have 12 South African doctors,in a suburb(there are 314 suburbs)in Melbourne one medical clinic have 4 SA doctors and down the street from the clinic there are 3 SA Pharmasist.In every town in Aus where we have friends there are between 3 and 4 SA Doctors,Surgeons and counting.Many young SA Pharmasist was accepted with open arms to the USA.All civilized countries continuesly invests heavily in health care.The people wanting foreign doctors,be careful what you wish for.Do a bit of research into the foreign doctors,some are fly by night and you will be shocked.Unless you are involved in the public health care,you will have no idea how bad the situation really is and it is not the doctors nor the nurses fault.Purely management and government that are destroying public health care.And if you are to blind to see or acknowledge that, don't complain when you go to a government hospital for help and don't get any.Just swallow your words.

John Deere 7/1/2009 2:45:16 PM
@SamSam: The reality is that the lives that MIGHT me lost now, will be much less than the lives that WILL be lost in the future if our Health Department implodes. Doctors are the backbone of the health department and if you do not look after them, soon there will not be enough left to save anyone.

Ross 7/1/2009 3:00:37 PM
@ MZI and The rest... The same people saying the same stupid stuff

Fire them all 7/1/2009 3:00:40 PM
Listen if I am not happy with my salary do I strike - no. These doctors signed their employment contracts agreeing to the amount they would get paid so now they are not happy with it so they strike. Do they forget that we are in a recession and people should be thankful to have a job! These doctors took an oath and here they are p*ssing all over that oath. People have DIED because of their stupid strike - that blood is on every single striking doctors hands. It makes me sick to think that we are South African's strike when we dont get what we want. If I had to strike outside my work I would be fired so why do the doctros get away with it. Again - they signed on the dotted line agreeing to their salaries so live with it like the rest of us you ungrateful fools. Fire them - fire them all!!

Max 7/1/2009 3:14:56 PM
Why is it that whenever the ANC government is criticised, the critic is labelled a racist? It is aknown fact that standards of health and education have dropped drastically since the ANC came into power. Instead of affording all South Africans the same standards they have tried to find some middle ground. It sometimes makes me feel sad that I am a black man!

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