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News24 User

Balance the blame

by
2008-12-04 09:51

Len van Heerden, News24 User

I wish to take issue with the constant hammering of former president Thabo Mbeki and former health minister Manto Tshabalala-Msimang.

I am not saying that their activities should not be analysed and criticised where they are found to have contributed to the problem, but I take exception to these claims that they are the cause of so many deaths.

Yes, some kids are suffering as a result of their parents' actions, but the vast majority of those who are infected are infected because of their own actions.

I think the message needs to be balanced. As much as we criticise the government's response (which is way better than when the pandemic started, when the Nats would not allow condoms to be advertised or mention of sex on TV or radio), we need to blame those responsible.

I never heard Mbeki or Tshabalala-Msimang telling people to screw around. I never heard them telling people not to use condoms. When someone is sick from cancer, they go to their doctor or clinic to advise them of what they need to do. They do not go on the streets and toyi toyi that someone else needs to take care of them.

Take personal responsibility

There are many people in the country who lead a responsible life, but suffer from illnesses not of their own doing. They get no help from anybody and government is not blamed for not helping them.

The only way we can win the war against Aids is for people to take personal responsibility for their actions, before we pass the buck to government or someone else.

Yes, we need to hear a unified message from government detailing what the best protocol is in treating the disease. One day you hear that if people take anti-retrovirals when they are tested positive, then in 10 years there will be less infected people, and then we hear another message that prolonged treatment with ARVs can cause liver damage.

It is great that civil society is working together with government under Barbara Hogan and may this continue, but let us put the blame squarely where it belongs, ie that uncontrolled urge for people to screw without protection.

That is what kills people, and not government response to them committing suicide. Jacob Zuma is a great example of someone who knowingly endangered himself and his wives by having "consensual sex" without a condom with a woman who has HIV.

He then made ludicrous claims that he believed taking a shower would have the desired effect. How many Zuma supporters are out there who might believe this nonsense? Would Zuma blame Manto and Thabo for his actions? Surely not.

We need to send a message to the infected people telling them it is their fault that they are infected and the sooner they get off their arses and help themselves, the better.

Fear of discrimination

Seek help, instead of hiding behind some convenient excuse. Tough love can work. Victims of crime are expected to take themselves to hospital and their medical aid has to pay.

People suffering from cancer or other illnesses are expected to heal themselves but the group of individuals that forgot to take a shower, receive everything free and they still bitch about it.

Of course this does not mean sufferers have to be isolated or discriminated against. They are people too, and the better they are treated, the earlier they can come out and seek help/treatment. The delays now are caused by the fear of being discriminated against.

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Bev 12/4/2008 10:03:01 AM
It was not the Government that told the people to drop their pants/panties and have sex did they?

WhiPnTickle 12/4/2008 10:03:29 AM
Yeh I guess its also the fault of victims who got raped and got aids?? Listen moran we had a presedent who thought HIV does not cause aids we had a health minster telling uneducated people to rather eat beetroot and garlic. those babies that died in hospital is a direct cause of her uneducated knowledge of Aids. Her job was to educated people!!! idiot

Spongebob 12/4/2008 10:06:31 AM
Lee i said the very samething yesterday when a letter was published. From rural to urban arears people know how one gets infected {its logic}, people need to take responsibilty of their actions.

Tsotsi 12/4/2008 10:07:07 AM
Please forget about their ludicrous healings as well!!!

cos 12/4/2008 10:09:19 AM
I too believe that in many cases those with HIV have brought it upon themselves. If you cannot keep you pants up you at least have the option of getting free condoms on almost every street corner. However, I feel that the government should do everything in its power to make ALL medicines available to the public who can then chose if they want to take them or not. Keep your pants up and keep safe!!

Mich 12/4/2008 10:09:26 AM
Absolutely! I agree with you 100% So long as people are stupid enough to catch this disease by not using protection and sleeping around then they should be liable for their actions and the consequences. Those who contract the disease through no fault of their own should be the only one's who receive free assistance and have a claim to bitch.

Mark R. 12/4/2008 10:09:30 AM
Thanks, Len, for speaking so frankly. I agree fully with your sentiments. I've never understood why the simple message is not spread: "If you don't want AIDS, then don't screw around." Of course there are a few exceptions (transfusion of contaminated blood, mother-to-child infection etc.) - but the bulk of infections is still caused by people screwing around!

Don 12/4/2008 10:10:13 AM
I fully agree . People must take responsibility for their actions . Problem is , they don't want to . It is LONG past time that they look after themselves . They also cannot claim ignorance . MILLIONS have been spent on information drives all over the country .Why must other taxpayers money go to help them ? Nobody , including the Government helps me pay for a stolen car or replace things stolen in a robbery . If you want to screw around take what goes around without the whine .

masingita1 12/4/2008 10:10:22 AM
You are so right, people should start taking blame of their own action. I applaud you Len you said it so well, People are so used to blaming others for their own actions and never point fingers to themselves.

helen 12/4/2008 10:12:20 AM
Aids/HIV is a preventable disease. Rape victims and babies born of infected mothers should be treated with ARV's. The rest are not victims of Aids, they chose to take the risk by not wearing a condom. Its so simple.

Mark 12/4/2008 10:13:40 AM
Leon, I couldn't read your column to the end. You are obviously extremely misinformed, or plain stupid! The majority of infections are of women. I will not give you race breakdowns as that would bring another race row to the fore. Women, especially those subjected to physical and mental abuse daily, are most vulnerable to HIV/AIDS. Enough said! Go figure.

Juan 12/4/2008 10:15:28 AM
We have the highest infection rate in the WORLD! People's behaviour is to blame, BUT government is also to blame for: 1. Slow ARV rollout -> Causing mother to child AIDS transfer. 2. Advocating garlic -> People are stupid enough to believe this, resulting in aids death. 3. The anc president HIMSELF saying that a shower will prevent transfer of aids. Yet again there are people stupid enough to believe this, who'll end up getting infected!

ria norman 12/4/2008 10:15:55 AM
At last a voice of reason. While my heart goes out to those who contracted HIV through a blood transfusion or an accident of some kind, 99,999% of sufferers contracted the disease through promiscuity. What entitles them to my tax money when there are so many other urgent causes that are deserving of the taxpayers' money? The TAC are especially arrogant when it comes to entitlement. Ria

jerry 12/4/2008 10:16:09 AM
Please ask ZUMA to have himslef tested for HIV, how in God's name can you sleep with an HIV infected person and then want to govern an HIV god forsaken country, This nation should live closer to God, as it the very people who want to govern this country do not believe in GOD

esther 12/4/2008 10:20:47 AM
Well said, let us all be responsible citizens and try as much as we can to avoid the deadly virus. Why blame somebody else if you cannot stand up to your partner and say no to unsafe sex. I can understand the plight of rape victims and children.

Camel Man 12/4/2008 10:21:06 AM
I agree with you 100%. Typical of all things African-blame someone else, or something else.If you screw around,unprotected, the chances of getting aids increases.That simple message falls on deaf ears all the time.I have no sympathy with someone who has contracted the disease by screwing around.So all this money being spent on Aids prevention,does not seem to have had the desired effect.If you cant learn,you must feel.

The Dude 12/4/2008 10:21:37 AM
The AIDS message is continually hammered home in SA even in the most remote rural villages there are billboards and clinics yet the stats still rise if you contract aids in this day and age through sexual intercourse you are a dam fool.

TB 12/4/2008 10:21:44 AM
I agree with you totally. Unfortunately the majority of our population is still looking for a "baas" to take care of them and have not yet grasped the concept that you are supposed to be your own "baas" in a free democracy. They just replaced the previous white "baas" now with a black one. Maybe also a legacy of apartheid? Not being able to comprehend that freedom - amongst other things - means to be responsible for your own wellbeing?

Shadi Mnisi 12/4/2008 10:21:52 AM
THANK YOU, Len. I am so glad to see that I am not the only person in SA who believes that each person has a responsibility 2 himself. I do not understand what more the Government is expected to do! What more can they do? People simply refuse to control themselves, or, even to use the PLENTY, FREELY AVAILABLE Choice condoms which can be found everywhere! Do we expect Thabo & Manto 2 follow us into our bedrooms, or the hotel rooms, or club toilets?

GeePmb 12/4/2008 10:23:03 AM
Some valid points Len however, both Mbeki and Manto are AIDS denialists which led to the lack of anti-retrovirals and the suggestion that beetroot and garlic were the solution. The best manner to avoid HIV is abstention from sex or a monogomous relationship. As this will nver happen because the masses fornicate condomless at will, the disease will continue to spread unabated. Manto and Thabo must be blamed for being denialists!

Kenroid 12/4/2008 10:25:34 AM
I agree with your article...but Manto is an idiot! how that woman is still around, I don't know! She is one of those who has friends in high places and can sit on her bum and make no positive contribution! There are thousands out there who could fill her position and bring about positivity in our country - but WHY does the ANC insist on keeping those who don't work! "Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results!" ANC is insane!

nathatuwa 12/4/2008 10:25:49 AM
I agree wholeheartedly with you.I will not add antything to your article.It is to the point.Plain & simple.Thank you!!

VG 12/4/2008 10:25:57 AM
someone said it - and not a moment too soon. It irritates me no end when people go on about the "right" to treatment. The only people who deserve free treatment at taxpayer's expense are children and rape survivors.People are soo concerned about theer rights, but seemingly not about their responsibilities.

MONWA 12/4/2008 10:25:59 AM
this present government and the previous apartheid government have done enough to educate people about sexually transmitted deseases and family planning but our people continue screwing around as if they are on an olympic trials.

Sebata 12/4/2008 10:26:11 AM
Unfortunately Len, brace yourself for countless insults coming your way for saying this.I tagree with you, we need to be practical. Balance the social/emotional argument and the economic response to all this then you will see why it's impossible to just keep spending while the nation continues with business as usual. It's unfair for other sufferers of diseases like cancer,heart,rheumatism,TB and the like.

Glock 22c 12/4/2008 10:26:23 AM
As simple as that , Onlly the string survive only the wise itself !!

Kenroid 12/4/2008 10:27:10 AM
I agree with your article...but Manto is an idiot! how that woman is still around, I don't know! She is one of those who has friends in high places and can sit on her bum and make no positive contribution! There are thousands out there who could fill her position and bring about positivity in our country - but WHY does the ANC insist on keeping those who don't work! "Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results!" ANC is insane!

Baas Koos 12/4/2008 10:27:14 AM
what about the people that were infected by blood transfers or while on the operating table or the people that were raped and got infected.... Do you realy think it is that easy for a woman or a man of a child to admit that they were raped.....? I aggree, people who screwed around must suffer, the one's that got it in other ways is the one's that should be helped asap!

HVR 12/4/2008 10:28:06 AM
I know it will be a strong, controversial step. but what about chemical castration for males who are HIV+. If people can't control their animal instincts then maybe government should control it for them.

Isaac 12/4/2008 10:30:34 AM
Well said! I think ppl should take responsibility and not just blame government.

vanniekaap 12/4/2008 10:31:30 AM
Now you've thrown the cat amongst the pidgeons!!

scrawl 12/4/2008 10:32:17 AM
harsh but true, Len. There are exceptions obviously where for example husbands cheated. But by and large spot on.

BD 12/4/2008 10:35:37 AM
Man, it's the message that was sent. In SA we have idiots who believe that what their leaders say is true. Like HIV and Aids are not related, like Patatoes and beatroot will cure AIDS. As Leaders in SA you have to take the reigns to help aid in Knowledge spreading by delivering facts. The Government ignored Specialists in this fields and believed dumb ass sungomas. Why cover for them, Mrs Hogan is trying to get things back into perspective that these fools have messed up. I hope JZ dies of Aids

oistar 12/4/2008 10:37:09 AM
Len and all those that agree with him are way off the mark. Your generalisation is that all people with HIV are to blame for their situation. What about the innocent people who contracted the disease through being raped or bad blood transfusions, or from mother to kid. Len, I hope that you receive the full karmic retribution of your callousness!

seema 12/4/2008 10:38:25 AM
I think lack of clear stand especially within a country that has high rate of illiteracy infested by myth and cultural believes didnt do wonders . As a leader you do your part , you have moral obligation to uphold and maitain a positive stance . I dont remember them offering anything concrete , they are more to be blamed for confussion and lack of strategy, they have done more damage than anyone else , had they done their part then maybe we can begin balancing the blame

carol 12/4/2008 10:41:33 AM
WHEN YOU PAY PEOPLE TO HAVE BABIES BY OFFERING CHILD SUPPORT GRANTS ARE YOU NOT ENCOURAGING UNPROTECTED SEX? CONSIDER HOW MANY SCHOOL GIRLS POP BABIES JUST FOR THE PALTRY CHILD SUPPORT PAYMENTS? WHO IS THEN TO BLAME?

Justin 12/4/2008 10:41:54 AM
People have forgotten that they can do anything they want, but have to live with the consequences of their actions. Unfortunately, I am often confronted with the situation where a husband has infected his wife, knowing that he has been positive for months or even years but has never revealed his status to her! I feel that is tantamount to murder! And their excuse ? I was scared how she would react if I told her. Pathetic! I agree Len, people should stop screwing around! First look to yourself!

Zolile 12/4/2008 10:42:23 AM
Mbeki NEVER denied AIDS. He encourgaed debate and alternatives around the disease. Read his International AIDS Durban 2000 speech, where he states: We shall continue to encourage abstinence...safe sex..while we together work for ways to combat this global killer. That is not denial. Manto said people should take healthy food while waiting for ARV rollout. She said beetroot, garlic, etc are very healthy and could help those already suffering. That is not denial. Get your facts 1st.

S 12/4/2008 10:44:38 AM
You're 100% spot on. And Manto's still an idiot.

Len van Heerden 12/4/2008 10:44:57 AM
Actually, it is not true that ARVs were not available. They were available to those who could afford them. They were not available for free as they are now. I agree that there are people who got the disease in situations where they have no control, but to claim all women with HIV had no control of the situation is naive. Yes, many are raped and yes many kids are born with it or are raped too, but the vast majority had a hand in their situation and I am asking they accept some of the blame

Thembalabantubonke 12/4/2008 10:47:20 AM
This has got nothing to do with Africanness or nationality. People all over the world expect government to do the most basic things for them.

Silver Surfer 12/4/2008 10:47:20 AM
Well done Len. Good article. Of course responsiblity goes further than just the HIV issue, people also need to stop looking to government for their other problems. They need to start educating themselves, having smaller and stronger families, etc, etc. Govt. can't do everything for you.

Charl 12/4/2008 10:48:57 AM
I think all the people critical of Len's essay fial to grasp that he actually acknowledges that there are pure victims of HIV (eg. blood transfusions, blood accidents, being raped). The point being made is that people should excercise self-control and restraint and avoid promiscuity, that's all. And it's a long overdue message. The govt, for all their shortfalls, can only do so much, the rest is up to taking responsibility for your actions and having YOURSELF tested. I have.

Len van Heerden 12/4/2008 10:49:59 AM
I was hoping that my message was clear enough that I do not blame people who were not responsible for their infection including AIDS babies, rape victims, etc. I did not think I needed to spell it out as I expected that the level of intellect in the forum was such that my comments could be read to be sympathetic on all people with HIV. My problem is the constant blame game on two people as if they are responsible for the actions of the 50%+1 who caused it on themselves.

Thembalabantubonke 12/4/2008 10:50:57 AM
Manto Tshabalala-Msimang is not longer the Minister of Health. Barbara Hogan is.

suzie 12/4/2008 10:51:46 AM
I don't know how old all of you are. People from 16 to like 25 are sometimes driven by hormones and although they know about HIV they think it won't happen to them or don't even think about it at the time only worry late (hence abortions as well). Same with drinking and driving. Young people sometimes make huge mistakes. I know I did

PRIGO 12/4/2008 10:51:55 AM
Testing 04/12/2008 10:16 Jerry said: Please ask ZUMA to have himslef tested for HIV, how in God's name can you sleep with an HIV infected person ........... This is the kinda stigma we dont want. Whether Zuma is HIV+ or not, that has nothing to do with him being president. Are you trying to say an HIV+ person cant be president?

masingita1 12/4/2008 10:52:18 AM
Yes it is true that the babies and rape victims can not be blamed for it, however people we should also face reality that if the mothers and fathers who knows that they are HIV positive must take precutions. My man and I want to have kids but bcos we know the danger of it since one of us is HIV Positive, we decided to go for adoption. If we can all take care of ourselves and take responsibility of our actions this HIV will under control just like other sickeness such as diabeties and cancer.

It's your problem - take charge of it! 12/4/2008 10:52:54 AM
HIV/Aids and its consequences is the individual's problem, not the government's. For everything that goes wrong in this country,people expect the governement to fix. This is nonsense - government has bigger priorities like crime and fraud to combat. People must learn to live and act ethically and not to submit to their urges like animals. A bit blunt, but true.

GeePmb 12/4/2008 10:53:02 AM
.... I believe that EVERY politician should, in good faith, have an HIV test and declare the results to the nation. By doing this, the HIV positive ones will have reason to force ARV roll-out and also then have a better understanding of the disease. However, it will never happen because like all politicians, it's the gravy that counts not the responsibility

AJ 12/4/2008 10:53:09 AM
I would agree as people have their own minds, but not in this country. The majority would listen to anything their leaders say not matter how crazy and follow it to the tee. Your logic (although sound) is not applicable to the average SA voter,

Tony 12/4/2008 10:53:19 AM
With a few exceptions, HIV and AIDS are self-imposed illnesses brought upon by lack of intelligence and moral fortitude (can we blame the govt for that?) Medicine/treatment should only be for those that can PROVE they contracted the virus by means not of their own negligence. The rest should be quarantined on Robben Island or shot, that will speed up the process of eliminating it. I will not give a single cent to any organization that wants to spend it on AIDS victims!

Filemon 12/4/2008 10:54:51 AM
with some normal drivel although for once it is interspersed with one good point. But the brain donor forgets that mother to child infections COULD have been reduced drastically if it were not for Mbeki and Manto's denialism. Where is your sympathy for these innocent victims, Len?

InfoGuru 12/4/2008 10:56:09 AM
I have to agree with you Len. And having read your comments through time i know that you do take the exceptions into account, and as you stated the for the biggest population people themselves are to blame. This just to further the information regarding rape and transfusion victims. All rape victims and hospital accidental contact victims are automatically placed on a course of ARV's. This policy was implemented years ago when ARV's were developed. So for the victims there were allways protection

ROSE 12/4/2008 10:57:11 AM
SUDDENLY EVERYONE HAS BEEN RAPED.LOAD OF BULL!! ROSE-SOWETO

WhiPnTickle 12/4/2008 10:58:21 AM
no get ur facts straight, she was againts arv's and opted for traditional medicians which dont work

Annie 12/4/2008 10:59:07 AM
In World Aids Day Government had the ideal opportunity to warn against casual sex, but all our esteemd DM said was to use condoms everytime. Condoms yes and I am not knocking her for that. I feel she could have spokend more strongly against having casual relationships. That is really the issue - condoms MAY protect you, but is not fool - proof ! So sad that she lost a golden opportunity !

Neil 12/4/2008 11:00:27 AM
All you people out there siding with old Len, Have you tested yet?

mochacho 12/4/2008 11:00:34 AM
while ppl are struggling to understand the disease the media is busy quoting our leaders out of context and further spreading the confusion.The latest HIV stats shows that the majority that are infected nowadays are educated ppl.It just shows how ignorant ppl can be especially when they think they are learned..

L van Heerden 12/4/2008 11:02:40 AM
I am not really if you bothered to read the argument, but if you did not, let me spell it out for you. At no time did I say that all people with HIV are to blame or deserve it. I simply stated an argument that there are people who refuse to take personal responsibility when they were the ones that screwed around in the first place. All those who were affected from no fault of their own, should get all the help, as happens with accident victims

Charl 12/4/2008 11:03:08 AM
You are such a negative moron. I think Len is well aware of the Mother-baby transfusions and obviously sympathizes with them. But - why did the mother not excercise her right to demand that her lover be tested for HIV - that is HER fault.

mel 12/4/2008 11:03:39 AM
people should take responsibility for their actions, primary amongst them Jacob Zuma who should be leading by example. However there are many people who became infected with HIV /AIDS through lack of awareness (government could improve their communications campaign), rape, when their partners did not inform them of their status and similar situations. And to blame those people for their status is grossly unfair.

MJ 12/4/2008 11:04:32 AM
Responsibility for getting sick or for getting better. It is not the governments fault that they are sick, but it is their fault if they hold the ARV back. Get off your high horse Len.

Kale 12/4/2008 11:05:05 AM
I read allot of the comments on these articles and notice there are a few here who don't see the bigger picture. The article does not say everyone gets AID's by choice. Cancer is a disease that you don't choose to have. AID's on the other hand is brought on mostly be people sleeping around. There will always be collateral. The only government blame I can see is them not providing safety hence the raping and lack of or incompetent hospital/clinic staff.

Paul Hammann 12/4/2008 11:06:46 AM
I used to enjoy your articles, but think it's very self righteous of you to blame HIV/AIDS on people without any thought whatsoever. Have YOU never slept with anyone without using a condom? I was in my height of sexual activity in the 80's & never heard of condoms or HIV. I could have easily been one of the statistics, but I am one of the lucky few. People, glass houses, stones...make a sentence!!!!!

Baas Koos 12/4/2008 11:11:02 AM
Len, in future be specific about who you are targeting, maybe you dont people with hiv, i think it is time you do as the one's i know that read your article is not sitting with a smily face, you go try and seek help if the blame is not with you, it is very easy for you to tell all what to do..... why dont you put yourself in their shoes..... and then comment again.....

Baas Koos 12/4/2008 11:11:36 AM
Len, in future be specific about who you are targeting, maybe you dont people with hiv, i think it is time you do as the one's i know that read your article is not sitting with a smily face, you go try and seek help if the blame is not with you, it is very easy for you to tell all what to do..... why dont you put yourself in their shoes..... and then comment again.....

Bemused 12/4/2008 11:12:44 AM
Oom Koos and whiPntickle, if your ability to read and comprehend is so poor that you can't/won't understand what someone has written, please keep your rude comments to yourselves, idiots! Well said Len.

Nick 12/4/2008 11:13:53 AM
He starts with "but the vast majority of those who are infected are infected because of their own actions" these are the people he is talking about. SO LETS NOT GET ON OUR HIGH HORSES, DEFENDING A BUNCH OF IDIOTS WHO HAVE CONTRACTED AIDS BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN ACTIONS, MUST MY TAXES BE WASTED ON THESE BRAIN DEAD INDIVIDUALS, I THINK NOT. PS USE A CONDOM or DIE???

Big Bad Bob 12/4/2008 11:19:18 AM
Too many problems in 21st society are really attributable to people not being inclined to take some responsibility for their actions. HIV is perhaps the most egregious example. The vectors along which it spreads are well understood and preventative measures are easy to implement. It's not rocket science. Most HIV cases are preventable without government doing anything at all.

Big Bad Bob 12/4/2008 11:22:43 AM
That was 20 and more years ago. These days we know that HIV is linked to promiscuity, and that a condom is a very effective preventative. We know that people who do not practice sex outside of a long term monogamous relationship are at low risk. This is known and it is not hard to understand or act on. People who chose to live a promiscuous lifestyle know that their behaviour places them at risk. If they chose to ignore the evidence then they must take responsibility.

Margaret 12/4/2008 11:26:52 AM
You asked "Are you trying to say an HIV+ person cant be president?" Well, unless he was raped or his mother passed it on to him during childbirth, then his own irresponsible behaviour brought it upon himself. We need someone morally/ethically responsible as President.

Stuart 12/4/2008 11:29:03 AM
You are so self-righteous and narrow minded. What about the women or men that are 100% faithful to their partners, but get it from them? What about the illiterate rural women whose husbands are away for most of the year working on mines (migrants not allowed to bring their wives), who dont have power to say no when they return? Or the millions of those raped? Easy to be so high and mighty when you have an education, a warm house, a good job, and the power and knowledge to make choices.

Jayzee 12/4/2008 11:32:09 AM
Unfortunately the level of mental power is not as obvious as you suggest. How else do you explain comments from people like Juan, Karen and their type? Obviously these are people who are stupid to say the least. You must refrain from taking such idiots seriously because you will not get anywhere with them. They are destructive and take pride for being hopeless and empty.

Philani 12/4/2008 11:33:03 AM
The Chemical Ali Basson is free, and that is why I will only vote DA, when a cure for HIV/Aids has been found.

Action 12/4/2008 11:33:23 AM
I thought this article is about AIDS(responsibility) and not Jacob Zuma.

Pangea 12/4/2008 11:33:29 AM
I agree with you Len, peope need to take responsibility for their actions. But I do believe Thabo and Manto deserve every bit of the bashing they got, they mis-managed the whole Aids issue and not to mention other issues. If this was a normal democracy Monto would have been fired long ago.

Rafiki 12/4/2008 11:33:31 AM
The author has made valid points. We have to be responsible. Let us not forgrt that there are factors that contribute to responsibility that includes getting the correct message; which the goverment failed to do. Surely most diseases are preventable including cancer and cholera.

Patrick 12/4/2008 11:35:59 AM
It is a government's fiduciary responsability to provide its people with proper information, but it borders on lunacy not to provide adequate medication such as ARV's. To now say that people should be left over to their own devices are the kind of rhetoric you'd expect from the Calvinist idiots pre 94. Have you seen ever someone on his final moments having full blown aids? I think it callous to render any comment, let alone judgement on those infected.

nthatuwa 12/4/2008 11:36:03 AM
I test regularly & welcomed every test afterwards when I fell pregnant with my 1st baby.It is advisable to test regularly like you would for cancer.The more you test the easier it will be for you to handle whatever outcome.If you're nagative,prevention is better than treatment,if you're positive,treatment & a good lifestyle will help a lot.Live a good life,love yourself to make wise decisions.If you get infected after this advice,screw you,it's your fault.

Zolile 12/4/2008 11:38:31 AM
Facts count more, but sadly they are lacking. Bring a statement made by Manto where she is against ARV please. Oh and don't forget to bring the one by Mbeki where he denies AIDS. We have people quoting someone who quotes someone..etc. The facts are sorely lacking. Mbeki is criticised for things he never said. Bring it on.

Cape Town Kid 12/4/2008 11:41:05 AM
If you look at the context in which 46664 came abt,then we should call a spade a spade.Thabo together with Lekota et al must be fingered for their irresponsibility.I think we would have been far ahead,with the likes of Ghana,Botswana if we had left science to science.I agree,I was watching BBA and lo and behold you had promiscuis behvior frm a Botswanan woman and the men were willing partners!These were well educated,lucid thinking individuals.I thnk SA will find itself and lead on this pandemic.

Puhleez 12/4/2008 11:41:40 AM
How many of us can HONESTLY claim that we have never had an "aids scare"? I would venture to say that the majority of us (no matter what race or gender) who were teenagers during the 80ies and early 90ies are just plain LUCKY not to have aids, not more clever or responsible. Can we really judge those who were not as lucky?

SV 12/4/2008 11:41:56 AM
Well said, Len, I always say that this silly government and all these health/Aids workers NEVER ever told people till this day that they will most probably get Aids from sleeping around. Some people behave like animals, and do not use condoms (which is available for free). True and logic statements - I agree. SV

Blaza 12/4/2008 11:47:58 AM
You make your point quite well and to some extent I agree with you but you are a racist."When someone is sick from cancer..." A clear reference that Cancer is a white disease and AIDS a black disease, the masses are supposed to go toy toying because they cannot afford to go to the doctor.

Thembalabantubonke 12/4/2008 11:49:55 AM
When has the government prevented people from sourcing medication of any kind, privately? ARVs were always available. They were simply not free. Get your facts straight

L van Heerden 12/4/2008 11:52:22 AM
I think you need to read before commenting. I feel sorry for anyone who is infected. As for the glass house statement, you do not know my status and so you cannot comment whether I am commenting from a point of knowledge or being cold hearted. If I understand you, you suggest we take all the responsibility away from those infected and blame government and this should deal with the pandemic? That would be cold-hearted as it will help the spread further.

Purviss 12/4/2008 11:53:14 AM
I generally agree with you but the government must take responsibility for at least some of the mess. TM and Manto for pure stupidity and JZ by his actions. I have yet to hear TM, JZ or Manto admit that they were wrong. There are millions of people in this country who will listen and see what their leaders say and do, and believe it. Especially Manto needs to be held accountable for the ARV fiasco. AIDS education has also been sadly lacking, and that is the government?s responsibility!

Thembalabantubonke 12/4/2008 11:53:27 AM
How can government provide security for each person in their home to prevent a father from raping his daughter?

RK 12/4/2008 11:55:08 AM
Lovely reporting but please balance the issue of rape and children as well, its not their fault. I'd like people to understand that the garlic and betroot issues r making sense. i dont know why the media is chnaging the report. everyone knows that vegetables helps to boost the system - i dont know why it sounds like a bad thing. Manto was correct idiots!

Thembalabantubonke 12/4/2008 11:56:50 AM
Please read the entire article before commenting. Any more specific, Len would have to dumb down the article. He cleary states "Yes, some kids are suffering as a result of their parents' actions, but the vast majority of those who are infected are infected because of their own actions." Surely, your intelligence gives you an idea who he is referring to.

Mzi 12/4/2008 11:57:43 AM
I agree to most of your points, however I believe that your thoughts are based on what you see in the media and the community you come from. have you visited rural places, villages. did you know that more than 50% of SA population is illiterate.Did you know most communities are still without water & electricity, then tell me how do they educate themselves when they never saw a condom. what about the victims. Those infected did not ask for it, don't blame but work on a solution.

Thembalabantubonke 12/4/2008 11:57:52 AM
Zuma is not in government. Len did say the responsibility should be shared

seema 12/4/2008 11:58:46 AM
I dont remember south african stats being particularly low . We know very well that Uganda and senegal at one stage had the highst stats of infection ... Government intervations reduced stats drastically , Fine maybe Mbekhi and Manto were no against use of ARV but they were certainly not forthcoming in their roll out and certainly not precise in the combat strategies -They certainly delivered more confussion unless if you can point out an effective implemented policy sorry i blame them more i

Thembalabantubonke 12/4/2008 11:59:47 AM
Huh!!!! This has got to be the biggest load of rubbish I have read today. White people die of AIDS everyday and black people die of cancer too. Stop being stupid

siswe 12/4/2008 12:01:02 PM
"I never heard them telling people not to use condoms." - Now now Len, don't get carried away with yourself there. Although they didn't say that, they did mention curing Aids with beetroot, garlic and the random shower or two...

MMK 12/4/2008 12:02:12 PM
As a taxpayer I feel offended that I have to pay for ARVs to people like JZ who drop their pants everytime they see a half-dressed woman or to a woman who can't keep her underwear on. The government is already spending a lot of my money distributing free condoms and on awareness programmes. People decide not to use them because there are ARVs which are also free. Its high time South Africans become more dependent. Once they are they will take care of themselves.

Justice4Ol 12/4/2008 12:02:13 PM
I couldn't agree more with you Len, that's a balanced article. I read a couple of articles where certain people in our communities were intentional infecting others with the virus. I just want to know what the government plans to do with these people/killers. Any hot lines to which we can blow the whistle?

siswe 12/4/2008 12:02:48 PM
Every article should be about Zuma! He is, after all, the next Jesus. Or haven't you heard?

Thembalabantubonke 12/4/2008 12:03:30 PM
Please read the article again, and point where it was suggested people be left to their own devices. Why is it so hard for people to argue with what is written in front of them instead of the standard straw man arguments? Quote:Of course this does not mean sufferers have to be isolated or discriminated against. They are people too, and the better they are treated, the earlier they can come out and seek help/treatment. The delays now are caused by the fear of being discriminated against.

ria 12/4/2008 12:04:15 PM
I quote wickipedia: 'Condoms have been used for at least 400 years. Since the nineteenth century, they have been one of the most popular methods of contraception in the world.' I was at the height of my sexual activity in the 70's and 80's, but by then responsible people knew about condoms and birth control

Nick 12/4/2008 12:04:56 PM
Why blame the ANC(Thabo & Lekota) for this Pandemic. Blame the people who thought having unprotected SEX(JZ + Millions) was ok, and then telling the masses it OK to SHOWER afterwards. PS SA has taking the lead in - Murders - Rapes - Crime. Doubt if we will take the lead in AIDS management EVER

LvH 12/4/2008 12:06:28 PM
You do not know me, and where I come from and you have no idea what my basis is. You insult rural people in believing that they do not understand that sleeping around is their responsibility. What happens when a boy makes a girl pregnant? He is made to take responsibility regardless of his education. Stop insulting rural people, they have morals. Morals do not need formal education.

Godfrey 12/4/2008 12:06:35 PM
I fully agree with you. People blame everything on govt.Some guy drive under the influence of alcohol and cause an accident,blame govt.We should not be wasting so much buying condoms which are anyway not being used.Is there still anyone who doesn't know that sleeping around without a condom causes increases the chances of gatting AIDS?Why can't people buy their own condoms if they want to sleep around?The TAC is busy misleading SAfricans by blaming their problems on the govt rather than themselvs

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