Johannesburg

Thursday

Widely scattered tstorms. Breaks of sun late. Warm.

16°C
28°C

7 day forecasts

George Annandale

South Africa
News24 User

'Don't nationalise mines'

by George Annandale
2009-07-07 08:07

This week saw a frenzy of calls for the nationalisation of South African mines. It started with a call from the ANC youth league, one of the first testers of public and market opinion, and was quickly followed by a similar call by Cosatu, despite General Secretary Gwede Mantashe denying nationalisation of mines being on the ANC agenda.

The debate was kept on top of the agenda with a call by the Young Communist League on Friday, supporting the ANCYL and Cosatu in their calls.

I can already see commentators, very optimistically and self-assured, assert that in our advanced democracy and our liberal economy, nationalisation will not happen, since the voices of moderation within the ANC will hold sway and deliver us from this evil.

To the naïve Afro-optimists I can only say, dream on. The high regard in which Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez are held by said organisations, and other proponents of nationalisation within the ruling party, should be a clear indication that nationalisation has become a real possibility; I will not refer to it as threat for the fear of being labelled a negative afro-pessimist.

During a week of calls for nationalisation of mines, by the indisputable king makers of the African National Congress, the ANC Youth League, Young Communist League and Cosatu, only one dissenting voice rose in the wilderness, that of Gwede Mantashe, who stated that the nationalisation of mines was not on the ANC agenda. The strong pro-nationalisation faction within the ANC cannot and must not be underestimated; after all, they managed to get Mbeki recalled despite calls from moderates.

Determined to succeed

It can be expected that the idea of nationalisation will be pursued with the same vigour as the recall of Mbeki, the removal of the Scorpions and the recent, swift hatchet job on the ANC board, all of these particularly hated thorns in the side of the left-wing of the ruling party, the same people calling for nationalization. This group, including Mantashe has been at the forefront of a campaign to transform the judiciary, currently a top priority with personal attention being given by the President. The fact that the group invoked their trump card, the clear reference to nationalisation in the "holy document", the "Freedom Charter", is a clear indication of their determination to succeed in their quest.

Gwede Mantashe, the only voice speaking against the nationalisation, should not inspire confidence with owners and potential investors in this critical industry. Mantashe's views on a market economy are well known and will not make many capitalists jump with joy...a bit like having a wolf minding the sheep. The inimitable Mr Mantashe was one of the first people mooting the possibility of a State Mining Company.

He was, through his career as leader of the NUM and the SACP, an ardent supporter of extreme left economic policy and a vocal critic of business, in particular mining companies. Mantashe has also established himself as a manipulative man with many agendas who is no stranger to twisting the truth to suit his priority agenda at any specific point in time.

In his climb to the top, his modus-operandi of divide and rule, left divided organisations in its wake whilst, his habit of changing his mind, twisting the truth and flatly denying responsibility does not inspire confidence. I will not consider it beyond Mr Mantashe, to have instigated this call, creating a situation he can use, to manipulate the situation, a dangerous game indeed.

The comparison, Minister of Mines, Susan Shabangu, drew on the SABC programme "Fokus" when asked about nationalisation of mines, between a State Owned Mining Company and nationalisation does not bode well. It opens the way for wholesale nationalisation. The state-run diamond operations, she referred to, is hardly a pinnacle of achievement.

Poor score

As things stand, and according to the Fraser Institute in Canada, South Africa is the third least attractive investment destination for international mining investors in Africa, beaten only by the DRC and Zimbabwe. This dubious honour was achieved because of deterrents such as environmental regulations, the tax regime and especially, the uncertainty as to the interpretation of new mining legislation, regulatory inconsistencies and misgivings about land claims.

South Africa also received a poor score in terms of labour relations and security. We can now add an additional factor, one as bad as any previously identified factors, probably even worse, the threat of nationalisation. History teaches us that chances of reasonable and fair compensation, in the event of nationalisation, is almost zero. 

It is no wonder that a company like BHP Billiton, who knew and had first hand experience of Mantashe as a board member at their Samancor Company, have made few investments in the South African mining industry in the last few years. On the contrary, they cancelled oil exploration plans, sold a large stake in Samancor and disposed of their interests in diamond exploration mining.

Considering the withdrawal of top gold miner Barrick from South Africa, Anglo's desperate scramble to get rid of their gold mining interests, Rio Tinto's low-level presence in exploration projects and recent changes in management structure coupled with rumours of planned asset disposals in South Africa by Goldfields.

The prospect youths and low-skilled workers miners, who do not understand the basic concepts of the need of fixed investment, the basics of supply and demand and the basic idea of profit and cash generation in a business running around creating mayhem in support of their call for nationalisation, could be the final straw for mine owners and potential investors.

Victims of nationalisation

Disinvestment and "investor strikes" are seldom accompanied by fanfare. Decision makers in mining, in many aspects often act very quietly in threatening situations preferring to keep all future options open. The will more often than not, step back gently and observe the unfolding drama from a safe place whilst coldly and unemotionally assessing their risks before voting with their chequebooks.

They will like in the case of Zambia and the former Soviet Union, bide their time and once the lesson has been learnt they will be back on their terms. They will not shed a tear for the destruction of the nationalised mines; after all, they will be the victims of nationalisation.

Judging the success or lack of success of some of the BEE mining ventures, all of them socially engineered initiatives, one wonders how long it will take to destroy a nationalised South African mine.

Get published on MyNews24 by sending your letter, story or column to us.
Send us your news photos

Disclaimer: All articles and letters published on MyNews24 have been independently written by members of News24's community. The views of users published on News24 are therefore their own and do not necessarily represent the views of News24. News24 editors also reserve the right to edit or delete any and all comments received.

Rate this story:

Magapane 7/7/2009 8:16:31 AM
Your capitalist propaganda!!!

jason 7/7/2009 8:20:13 AM
They'll never nationalise the mines. The elite own the mines. And the elite own the ANC. In Africa (and almost everywhere else), as long as the elite are having a good time, the status quo stays.

Bob2 7/7/2009 8:21:57 AM
well written article; also remember how well run and profitable SAA is ;-) as an indication of where we're going if htey nationalise

Ghost in the Machine 7/7/2009 8:37:26 AM
Why doesn't anybody want the taxi industry to be nationalized?

wphc 7/7/2009 8:39:25 AM
It is scary since mining is our biggest industry. The biggest concern would be the platinum mining operations, where south africa's biggest assets lie. Lets hope sanity or good legislation prevails.

Pop Idol 7/7/2009 8:41:04 AM
Why interfere with the mining sector?? This is our major single source of revenue,considering that the economy isnt very diversified away from mining...An increase in company's tax from these firms should be considered but ,as far as nationalising the mines,,forget it,,itll make our rand devalue,and foreign firms disinvest from RSA.

T 7/7/2009 8:41:13 AM
This is a trend the ANC has shown in their attempts to have control over absolutely everything. If this happens, we will see a sharp decline in our already cripple mining industry. There are plenty of other areas demanding more attention and all they can concentrate on is where they can benefit. Our government has NEVER proved successful in anything that they themselves do not benefit or get directly remunerated on. Stop this dog-show!!!!

Bongani 7/7/2009 8:41:22 AM
I have not heard a concrete reasoning behind this nationalisation call. What are we aiming to achieve? Botswana diamond mines are 70% owned by government but they are the most strunggling mines in the world. I say nationalise mines only if i will directly benefit out of that i.e. me, Juan, SimonP and Halfwise.

CBloggerT 7/7/2009 8:45:15 AM
For a government, which has proved it would have difficulty running a bath, to contemplate running gold and platinum mines, would be financial suicide!

G.Annandale 7/7/2009 8:53:24 AM
Subsequent to me writing the article things moved fast. Yesterday saw the following.
Jesse Duarte just said on nationalisation, “with the opinions on nationalisation a national debate is required” or something to that effect. We know how these things work. The noisy "king makers" within the Alliance becomes the voice through intimidation, anarchy and violence.

Which right thinking investor or mine owner will want Vavi and Malema debate the future of his investments.

My bet...mines will be nationalised.




To minimise the threat is naive. It is real and like many other projects of the "kingmakers”, they will force the alliance to move in their chosen direction. The so-called political debate will be won by the vociferous, anarchic and threatening left.

This issue will be driven in the same way as the disbandonment of the Scorpions, SABC board, and transformation of the judiciary.

See "Open Letter to Gwede" at http://gannandale.wordpress.com/

Sinudeity 7/7/2009 8:59:16 AM
The freedom charter also states, safety, security and equality for all. They will nationalise mines because the 'freedom' charter says so, but, they will disregard the charter, and implement BEE and disregard our safety and security. This is only a gap for the GREEDY ANC scumbags to enrich themselves even more. The poor will not see a cent of a nationalised mine.

IandI 7/7/2009 8:59:29 AM
As RSA is still a fairly new democracy, we are putting outr fingers in the fire by following the bad example of what other Africa states did after gaining freedom from their oppressors, i.e. nationalize mines and industries, establish a one-party state, deploy ruling =party cronies to run state-owned enterprises, attack the independence of the media and judiciary, etc. All in all a bit of experimental socialism/communism never hurt the rulers, only the ordinary voters will feel the pain.In 20 years' time we will be fighting for freedom from our "liberators" . Is it still a case of "better to die of hunger in a land of freedom, than have plenty to eat in a land of oppression, comrades?". A-loota continua, VIVA my ANC, my future(DOOMED!).

Derek 7/7/2009 9:03:33 AM
If our environmental regulations make us score worse on the Fraser Institute rating, then I say we should aim for number 1. Mining companies are a scourge and have no regard for the enviroment - they are part of the problem.

Sinudeity @ANC Fanboys 7/7/2009 9:06:06 AM
You know what DISGUSTS me about you? That, you have allowed CORRUPT SCUMBAGS to infiltrate your movement. To STEAL our tax monies, and instead of chasing these dogs out of the ANC, you defend them. Your ANC movement is turning into a political party for the devil, and YOU allow it. Fix your comrades first, before you can EVEN CONSIDER nationalising.

Abri 7/7/2009 9:07:38 AM
I hope they do this! It's high time the wealth in this country gets spread around A LOT more evenly. Time for the public to have some input in what happens to the country's resources - either that or we continue to live in a paper "democracy" where we are called on to ratify elite decisions every 4 years.

@IandI 7/7/2009 9:10:09 AM
Why wait 20 years to fight? Im fighting already. It started with breaking through the indoctrination and lies and putting my X somewhere else. Now I deny any authority over me and make all my decisions based on ethics. I challenge you and anyone else to do the same.

Makhekhe 7/7/2009 9:14:28 AM
I agree with the Nationalisation of mines if the intention is to save those struggling mines that were disposed of by the state through deals.Even if the current owners are not sufficiently rewarded so long as those ailing mines are saved and no further job losses are experienced.
Not all mines should be nationalised but those that are struggling and need a new lease of life and more efficient management.

I'm not sure how true the finding from the Canadian institute is,who conducted the research,who participated,how big was the sample of potential investors tested? I find this finding ridiculous,SA 3rd after DRC and Zim! Puhleeeez man,BIG FAT LIE!Does this mean
people would rather invest in places like Iran,Iraq,Afghanistan,Sierra Leonne,North Korea,these are just other idiots trying to make themselves popular.

Jabu Khuluse 7/7/2009 9:14:50 AM
Capitalism must be stopped in Africa, I praise Julius Malema for starting this debate. South Africa and the rest of Africa are rich in mineral resources and it's people are the poorest around the world, how do we explain this to God. Thanks God I'm not religious..lol, but yes I'm in support of the debate around this matter. Foreigners must stop exploiting, South Africans must defend what belongs them.

Anon 7/7/2009 9:18:44 AM
@Bongani 8:41:22 AM - LOL ;), but if they nationalise nobody will benefit, there will however be a lot of new corruption opportunities for officials. Look how well run the other nationalised organisations are i.e. EKSDOM, SAA, SABC, etc, etc.!!!

Abri 7/7/2009 9:19:56 AM
So we should rather deregulate environmental concerns, minimise the government/country's tax revenue and generally screw everything that stands in the way of investors, many of whom are foreign, to avoid "investor strikes"? Right? Have you ever heard of the concept of democracy? Where the majority makes a decision which IS IN THEIR INTEREST??? Or should we continue to put investor friendly legislation in place and deregulate everything else? The people "running around creating mayhem" just so happens to be the majority of the population who are still poverty stricken and many of whom DIG THE ACTUAL ORES OUT OF YOUR MINES!!! Time to remake this society along RATIONAL lines that BENEFIT THE MAJORITY instead of a tiny group of filthy rich pigs.

Eles 7/7/2009 9:20:59 AM
I am most irritated by this recent notion - let's face it the ANC just wants to control everything, this is not about benefiting anyone except the party. The ANC government have proved unsuccessful and most incompetent in running all departments (except for SARS) including municipalities. Consider the mess that is Eskom, SAA and SABC. It would be nothing short of a disaster to nationalise mines and would most likely benefit very few whilst creating a huge tax drain, how often would we be bailing out the mines? Until the ANC actively recruits and employs credible people into positions i fail to see why they are looking for more work considering their sad inept record at everything else to date. Tell me is anyone in government actually using their brains for a bit of thought - am really sick of incompetence across the board these people do not deserve their excessive salaries I hope the voters vote their conscience next time. I agree with another reader above why don't they nationalise the taxis.

Watcher 7/7/2009 9:22:43 AM
A well thought through insight. I have to agree with the comments. When you add the absolutely confrontational attitude of the Unions it does not bode well for the future. The mines are operating at abyssmal productivity levels caused by the attitude of workers that it is their right to buy a fraudulent sick note, steaal explosives, commit arson and sabotage and generally be unproductive while demanding higher wages. the unions, Num in particular, provide a stellar example of what to do as virtually all frauds committed involve NUM members.

Be still my heart; or should I rather refer to the book by Josef Conrad - "Heart of Darkness"!

Abri 7/7/2009 9:28:47 AM
After the mines are taken out of the hands of the private foreign parasites into the hands of the state, the struggle for us will be to increase the role of the people in decision making...something which can be done and has been done and is being done in many Latin American poor countries not unlike our own! Nationalization is not an end in itself, unless you are a supporter of "Soviet" style state capitalism. It is a step in the right direction, away from the dead neo-liberal model that has failed time and again, creating the vast inequality we see everywhere.

Ken Freeman 7/7/2009 9:29:18 AM
Yes,good thing to nationalize the mines,as it is their heritage anyway.Unfortunitly like anything inherited the mines will go to the dogs,especially in the hands of that certain group of said leaders.

John 7/7/2009 9:31:31 AM
Just who does Dilemna Malema think he is.
His ongoing utterances are nauseating-together with those of his pals in the YCL.
They need to remember that they are "YOUTH" leagues and that is all. Make suggestions but stop your rediculous demands.
What does he know about capitalism really and about nationalisation too for that matter.
Somebody buy him an air ticket to Russia please and send him into the country , far from Moscow (too capitalistic for him now) and let him experience first hand, the impact that a non capitalistic society had on a country. Maybe, but doubtful he will see that his impressions may change his thinking. Get a life please. Alternatively, take a hike around Africa and visit those countries that dabbled in socialism, nationalisation and see what happened there.....

SimonP 7/7/2009 9:37:42 AM
The ANCYL, COSATU and the YCL have no economic based reasoning for their call. Communism does not work, nationalisation does not work, history states this. So why repeat something that is 100% guaranteed to fail? No doubt the indoctrinated ANCers will be coming up with some bizarre reasoning which will be fun to dissect.

ARYAN 7/7/2009 9:38:50 AM
Nationalization has been going on for the last 15 years with the introduction of affirmative action and BEE. These little laws that get written in Luthuli house that keep on testing the constitution will soon all be made law when the Justice department gets "transformed" in the next year or so. All the puppets from Luthuli house are already strategically placed in every sector of our existence to implement any “law” that will be approved by our new little Marxist friends in the Judiciary

Frank 7/7/2009 9:46:32 AM
SAA - failed, SABC - failed, Eskom - failed, Land bank - failed, Local municipalities - ailed, SA Army - failed, Telkom - failed! When will the ANC realise that they are rubbish at running businesses, malema and co just want to line their greedy little palms again at the exspense of the man on the street!

mallencolly@Abri 7/7/2009 9:47:16 AM
Please spare us the BS. "many latin American poor countries"? Name one equal country in latin america. In fact name one equal country anywhere where the state controls major industries. If you want equality your best bet is to look North at places in Scandanavia. Perhaps youshould take a more critical look at the BS youre being spoonfed in your ANCYL/YCl meetings, huh?

Allan 7/7/2009 9:49:02 AM
Nationalize mines for what purpose, Poor Safety? Well then nationalise the Taxi Industry as there safety record is worse but nobody in government will ever want the two compared in accident stats. The Mines pay large amount of tax to the governemnt but the Taxi Industry, hello, what taxes?

Juan 7/7/2009 9:50:41 AM
YES!! NATIONALISE the mines! Show us the success africans can make of things. Look at the wonderful job they did with eskom, sabc, saa... WOW!

SimonP 7/7/2009 9:54:02 AM
@Abri, who exactly do you think will benefit from your plan, everyone or a few thieving cadres? give me one example where the nationalisation of failing industries has resulted in success. Look at SABC and SAA completely mismanaged disasters that serve the cadres as a wallet filler.

Nuke 7/7/2009 9:54:50 AM
@Watcher, you must be in the mining industry, because I see that EVERY DAY... Wonder who they are going to fire when mine accidents happen and someone dies?? I just wonder how much intellectual capacity we are going to loose if this happens, because I am going to be first in line for a plane ticket to somewhere where my scarce skills (uranium metallurgist) can be used... Poor souls, don't know what they are doing...

dj 7/7/2009 9:55:26 AM
Follow the same policies as the rest of Africa ,get the same result!It's easy..carry on who cares!

SimonP 7/7/2009 9:56:27 AM
@Abri, who exactly do you think will benefit from your plan, everyone or a few thieving cadres? give me one example where the nationalisation of failing industries has resulted in success. Look at SABC and SAA completely mismanaged disasters that serve the cadres as a wallet filler.

samsam @SINUDEITY 7/7/2009 10:06:41 AM
whenever you quote freedom charter, I cant control my laughter,I bet you were member of ANC before, I dont want to say anything on this topic 'cause nothing concrete from luthuli hse, Whats your comment, there is a smell that ANC 'n IFP will merge, whats does that mean, 66+4= heheheh

AS 7/7/2009 10:08:35 AM
To my mind the problem is this: excessive greed from the side of the capitalists and investors and excessive greed plus incompetence from the ANC and its communist allies. Middle ground needs to be found, unfortunately the ANC will not be capable of finding a solution, proven by its many, many spectacular failures.

Tinus 7/7/2009 10:09:21 AM
There really is no financial incentive for government to own and operate a mine, IMO. Mines turn out a profit because the people that run them are dedicated, ruthless and experienced. Place that responsibility into the hands of an elected official, run the mine on ideological principles (rather than solid business principles), and mines will turn into liabilities like SAA. Forget taking profits even close to previous levels of tax income, every last one will operate at a loss.

Wisdom @ those for nationalisation 7/7/2009 10:10:32 AM
Can you please tell me where in SA has a goverment run dept been run succsesfully. I can think of a few depts that are bankcrupt! Is that what you want to do with the mines. At least the mines contribute a huge some of money that is dished out to the poor on a daily basis by means of taxes generated! Will poor will become poorer BUT they will be liberated with a bankcrupt mine...

D J 7/7/2009 10:15:03 AM
@George, a good article and we will do well if we bear it in mind. It will have a dramatic influence on pension funds and general lifestyle. I sincerely hope that you are wrong, but I don't think so. The old saying is still valid. Where there is smoke, there is a fire.

Futhi 7/7/2009 10:17:27 AM
Its amazing to see that the debate is divided across racial lines.People who benefited from the exploitation of mine workers by paying them slavery wages are anti Nationalization of Mines. Safety has never been a priority when it comes to mine workers in this country. I have been fortunate enough to work at the Canadians Mines and you will be shocked as to how much effort they put into their health and safety aspects and the slaries paid to Mine workers. Private companies who own mines in this country are only interested in profits and disregard the lives of the poor mine workers. I'm in support of the Nationalization of our mines as long as its done properly and in agreement in terms of percentage ownership with the Private companies.

Ivan 7/7/2009 10:19:22 AM
Nationalisation is definitely on the cards, they screwed up SAA , EkSDOM etc. Now they are looking for another potencial cash cow for the next generation of rulers in SA to milk, i.e. Malema & Vavi. They actually dont give a rats, that the mines will be defunct in a short space of time, cause they will have got their millions out already. The populace will then start to feel the brunt, when we have millions of mine workers roaming the streets with no jobs and Fu(kall future and no salary or pension. Pensions would have been nationalised and raped by some other elitest cadres. All you die hard ANC'ers, when will you ever wake up? You are going to feel the pain soon enough, stop the rot before it gets too engrained. You, like I and 48 million other SA citizens are being conned out of a future and worse, you children are. My kids are in the UK, I am as happy as a pig in SHYTE, to say the least. They have a future, yours probably wont.

Bob D 7/7/2009 10:19:55 AM
To Abri. Strangely enough, its these "filthy rich pigs" that pay taxes that keep this country going. If you think that nationalisation of industry is the answer to the poor people's prolems, think again. All that will happen is that more opportunities will be created for more people to put their sticky little fingers in the till. With all the money that this country DOES have, what has been done for the poorest of the poor in the last 15 years? Absolutley nothing. In fact their plight has worsened. If the working people would get off their backsides and put in a good honest day's work, be conscientious and proud of what they do, and lift the production rate of this country, then more people would be employed and poverty would diminish.

frikkie 7/7/2009 10:20:25 AM
Magapane - Great examples of nationalised assets include: Eksdom (sic), Transnet, SABC, SAA...
I will also be interesting to see how your comrades (Ramaphosa, Khumalo, Zim, Sexwale...)will react to the proposed nationalisation.
If it wasn't for the tax contributions by all the privatised institutions (and individuals) in this country then it would not have been possible to procure the infrastructure investment currently ongoing in this country. WAKE UP and think before you speak

Robert Ndungane 7/7/2009 10:22:48 AM
Dont worry comrades, there is a endless source of money available to bail out the mines after they go bankrupt. It is called "tax", i mean come on, we dont pay that much tax in South Africa. (Please note that i am being very sarcastic here).

samsam @JOHN 7/7/2009 10:30:23 AM
SA will/has no intention of adopting Socialism or Capitalism. The system used is mixed/free market econ system which is the best. I find it strange you whites when you are scared of Communism while you are great followers of Racism/Apartheid, Communism is here to cater for the poor (consequences of Apartheid/Racism/Capitalism), listen technically to B Nzimande before you comment ask where you dont understand, eg he says children without money must go to schools, those who are rich must pay. This is what we call mixed economic system, if you dont like it leave this country

Privatise it ALL 7/7/2009 10:32:21 AM
Privatise it all. Its the only way that this country can dig its way out of the crap that its in. Introduce healthy competition and remove monopolies, and who knows? Maybe the government wont have to create 500000 jobs, because the private sector will do it FOR them!

Supporter 7/7/2009 10:41:13 AM
I agree with you spot on ! What is a communist? Someone who has nothing but wants to share it........! i.e. they want of share of everything just to mess it up.

ANONYMOUS 7/7/2009 10:43:30 AM
Malema is here to stay, actually he will be the Minister of Energy come 2014, OR the minister of whatever the new name the ANC would have squabbled out of the dictionary in 2014. The ANC has come with a new stategy of how to see if the public will agree with them. 1st Malema will scream the issue at some gathering, 2nd Vavi will come with reasons in support of what Malema screamed, 3rd Gwede/that indian spokeswoman of the ANC will DENY any existence of such issue being on the ANC's agenda. They will nationalise mines, no matter what we want, just be prepared. This is not the first time the ANC denies something and later implements it

Trevor Gothan 7/7/2009 10:43:43 AM
@All those pro-nationalisation. Please remember the UK was one of the worlds largest shipbuilders before Wilson's govt nationalised British Steel. Thereafter, half finished hulls had to be towed to Japan for completion, they never built another tanker and BS had to be later privatised to get back on its feet. If govts cannot manage SABC, hospitals, etc efficiently, what makes them better at mining? A bottomless bag of taxpayers money? They will spend millions per job to retain them at a huge cost to this beloved country. Doomsday, here we come!!

Avra 7/7/2009 10:50:12 AM
Wow I am exiting. Can’t wait for this to happen – just as with SAA and Escom. Man, it can only get better in RSA!! !
Nope was only joking. If this happens , I must get rid of my diamond licence and quickly

Dreshkay 7/7/2009 10:53:20 AM
If the Americans, the Brittish and a sawy of capaitalist European governments can nationalise their banks and their auto industry, which is crucial and central to working of their economies as we have see n with this economic downturn, why should the ANC not at least consider seeking operational control what is already the goverment's i.e. he countries mineral wealth. Remember, the mining companies are just issued with a license to mine and pay a royalty for that benefit. The do not actually own the resources....

SimonP 7/7/2009 11:00:22 AM
Mining filled the pockets of a couple of BEE cadres and now when the industry declines tax payers money should be used to buy these mines giving the BEEs more money? Who is looking after who?

DG. 7/7/2009 11:10:08 AM
Nationalization of mines a good thing for our country. People are currently being exploited by contractors in many mines around south african mines. So if government can take over the ownership of mines, the wealth of this counrty could be evenly distributed to the masses of our country. It is hiighly unfair to have one person calling himself Motsepe, whereas we got a lot of people going to bed with empty stomarchs.

@ Jabu Khuluse 7/7/2009 11:23:15 AM
They will never kill capitialism. Never noticed what cars your leaders drive. As with all things you must have foreign investment. If it was up to the ANCYL we would have already been the next Zimbabwe. The only thing they still show us is the forever African begging bowl coming to the front. We Want! We Want! We Demand!

If the Goverment owns the mines then we will have another Eskom, SABC, Roadfund....Blah blah disaster.

John 7/7/2009 11:24:12 AM
Let the idiots do it I say. They will only mess it up horribly as they do with everthing else. Maybe then they will have leaned something that is way too much for them to grasp right now.

CTheB 7/7/2009 11:26:40 AM
The stupidity of the ANCYL, et al continues. The nationalisation of the mines will serve no useful purpose and will do a good job of creating destruction. It's no secret that this is the cry for a move into communism. The noise is coming from those claiming that we must move away from imperialist capitalism and its failures, deliberately sweeping under the rug the far more massive and horrific failures of communism and socialism, ideologies that have created far wider and more heinous gaps between rich and poor where those running the state are rich and everyone else is oppressed and poor. Those pretending that this is not a call for a move to communism must give up the lie, we're not fooled by it. There will be no extra decision making by the people - the same people saying that are the ones that have and will later say again that the government can make the decisions since they're the elected ones. Nationalisation has not benefited the Latin American countries referred to. However, I would not be surprised if the ANC took such action. They have lied many times before. They promised to keep their promises this time round, but I have little faith that they will. If they do this they will have put a final nail in their coffin by demonstrating that they will not keep their promises and will lie when it suits them.

Sinudeity @samsam 7/7/2009 11:29:07 AM
PS, the IFP and ANC wount merge. The IFP dudes would rather merge with COPE/DA Im sure. IFP and ANC are enemies. always have been. I remember when I was in primary school, we had to wear those "Peace in our land" emblems. To encourage peace between IFP/ANC.

Sinudeity @Futhi 7/7/2009 11:41:00 AM
Debate across racial lines? Nope, only along ANC/Everyone else lines. I cant help it, that you spew everything the ANC commies make you believe, that you want to believe. IF the ANC could manage public business (Eskom/SABC/SAA), then, it would be valid. But look at the BILLIONS they are costing us. As for me, I NEVER profitted from the mining industry. What? Do you think all white people are given a bag of gold at birth? Let me guarantee you, with the ANC running the mines, you will NEVER see a cent of profit.

Sinudeity @Futhi 7/7/2009 11:42:22 AM
You forget, that Canada has a nationalised healthcare system. One that works.

samsam @SINUDEITY 7/7/2009 11:45:54 AM
I can see you are emotional about CORRUPT officials, like I said before corrupt people are all over the world,we dont defend them even your party had a stealing Rev and Premier too,no party defends corruption,no party can be hold at ransom by a corrupt individual eg Paul Mashatile was rumored and wasnt given a post to be a Premier in Gauteng even Ramathlodi has no key position in govt, Magashule has been summoned to luthuli hse isnt that cooool. Sinudeity, something you need to understand technically in politics Im giving you a lesson when people contest for a post one backstab someone in order to get a post, they rush to press all over eg Anele Mda for COPE, don’t get emotional about this its business, in actual fact its good to expose one another, if you are rotten potatoe

@Who is the richest black South Africa? 7/7/2009 11:46:53 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice_Motsepe - Why dont you go ask this guy to nationalise all his mines. In fact, Tokyo, let nationalise all his business. In fact, all the commies (sammie etc), donate your PC's to the government please. You have too much, and you need to share with the poor.

GKT Insight 7/7/2009 11:49:24 AM
Perhaps once the mines are nationalised, they can turn their attention to the banks!!! Nationalise mines and banks is the way to go!!!

GKT Insight 7/7/2009 11:51:00 AM
Nationalise banks as well!!!

M 7/7/2009 12:01:43 PM
I must agree with what has been said. The ANC bigwigs will stand to lose the most since they are part of the rich elite that make their money of others. Secondly its sad that we even listen to anything coming from the ANCYL, I mean please, a Jerry Springer show has more facts than Malema. Lastly, mining is our biggest resource, so we really don't want to mess this up. To give it to some in-competed, greedy and corrupt ANC officials would be very unwise because the poor like with everything else, wouldn't see a cent but something that works will be run into the ground. So all of those wannabe commies, show me how the ANC has taken the wealth and distributed in FAIRLY to the people. I'm not talking about taking R1m for a house from tax payers money and then building a R10k house for the masses, I'm talking about efficient/fair distribution. Oh wait, no such examples are present.

DHV 7/7/2009 12:02:30 PM
Question about Communism - Does this mean ALL politicians will give up their fancy homes and cars to share their wealth with the poor?

Moses @ samsam 7/7/2009 12:06:02 PM
if the rich don't like it and leave like you suggest, who is going to pay for the poor school kids? Unfortunately people can't keep taking from the rich and giving to the poor, because as soon as the rich get gatvol and leave, there aren't any more handouts!!

@samsam 7/7/2009 12:15:11 PM
You are an idiot! Can you people not learn from other's mistakes (USSR, Cuba etc...) or are you so stupid as to repeat everyone else's mitakes over and over. Communism failed precisely because it DOES NOT WORK. When are people like you going to realise this. Sometimes people can really be stupid. You people give me a headache. You are are biggest racist of all the people to leave comments. Why don't you do all of us true South Africans a huge favour! YOU LEAVE THE COUNTRY!

Glock 22 c 7/7/2009 12:21:27 PM
It would make it easier for the ANC and their BEE diamonds to steal the money then. Seen Pamdozi mine closed and Ndaba $ Ntsele ( BEE owners ) cannot account for 200 Million rand that was given as a loan to the mine. Thats how BEE works

oistar 7/7/2009 12:25:16 PM
It is a fallacy that the wealth from the mines will be evenly distributed. It is well known that everyone becomes poor equally under communistic principles. For all those in favour of nationalising the mines - first present a positive reason to do so. If you can't, best you keep your views to yourself. Anyway, there will be no wealth to distribute as most of the skills base needed to run these mines will be incompetent of their expected performance.

Sinudeity @samsam 7/7/2009 1:06:56 PM
You are right. Corruption is all over the world. And its hidden. But, did you notice in the UK, when the corruption scandal happened, the public was outraged. Calls for early elections, AND they sent these corrupt officials packing (Even in the US). In South Africa, the ruling party simply wipes the corruption under the carpet, and hope the public will forget. Premier of Freestate, Ace, and his R3 mill casino bribe. What are the ANC doing about this? Why are you not angry, about the corrupt politicians, that have infiltrated, the once great, ANC movement? ANY ANC loyalist, would be downright enraged, and call for heads. Why do you defend them? If South Africa, was without corruption, we would have almost R200 BILLION at our disposal. We would NOT have cries to nationalise the mines. We WOULD have national healthcare, no crime, and motivated teachers. Come on sammie, join me, and lets become PATRIOTS to South Africa.

M 7/7/2009 1:07:06 PM
@oistar: Patrick Motsepe is one fine example of how "distribution" takes place. He winds up on the Forbes List of the most wealthy people! Hahaha! And those little ANC voters don't get it!! Hahaha. They still squabble over peanuts. But come election day, they will vote for them again.

samsam @MOSES 7/7/2009 1:18:03 PM
Moses in Bus Management course, there is a topic called Business ethics which is social responsibility, go to library next you and read that topic. Those who are rich knows about that principle, thats why Madiba was forcing big cooperates to build clinics, schools etc, even Tokyo said each company must contribute R50K to build houses, Im giving you a course for free 'cause Im socialist go and write B mgt course you will get distinction


samsam @MOSES/DHV/ANONYMOUS 7/7/2009 1:33:14 PM
Moses still don’t listening, I say those who are rich must pay their school fees. Im surprised you guys didnt read Bus Management course, there is a topic called Business ethics which is social responsibility, go to library next you and read that topic. Those who are rich knows about that principle, thats why Madiba was forcing big cooperates to build clinics, schools etc, even Tokyo said each company must contribute R50K to build houses, Im giving you a course for free 'cause Im socialist go and write B mgt course you will get distinction

Anon 7/7/2009 1:53:09 PM
@Privatise it ALL 10:32:21 AM "remove monopolies" State owned businesses are the worst kind of monopolies. This of EKSDOM (government), we want a 40% increase, the NER (Government) says 31% (where logically 11% would be enough, bar bad planning from EK is Dom management). This is a great money making scheme, I should try it!

Nico 7/7/2009 1:54:43 PM
@Makhekhe. Showing everybody your ignorance are you? The institute said 3rd in Africa. Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Afghanistan isn't in Africa. Wake up and read the entire article instead of just what you want to see. As for Sierra Leone, I agree with you but then they only have a war problem and not all the other problems we have.

samsam @SINUDEITY 7/7/2009 2:20:50 PM
Im patriotic, the thing with you, you are angry, you forget there are procedures to be followed, like I said Ace has been called at Luthuli hse,what if we follow your advice to fire him and he goes to court only to find it is no so, are you going to spend taxpayers money to compensate him, play with rule of law dont follow your anger.Are you not impressed with what the ANC did to Paul Mashatile,this guy was a monster in Gauteng,did you see his anger on TVs when he was denied a post, the ANC is bigger than individual. On my previous comments I have been critical of blue collar crime ‘cause it can intimidate investors, look what is happening in Africa

M 7/7/2009 2:26:20 PM
@samsam : And who decides when a person is "rich" or "poor" ? Your brothers in parliament? And when a company pays R50k for a house to the regime, they take 80% and use the 20% to build it. That's why we are against it.

DHV 7/7/2009 2:33:27 PM
@samsam - Your English is extremely poor. I gave up reading your comments a couple of months ago, takes too much time to figure out what you are trying to say.

Sinudeity @samsam 7/7/2009 2:49:18 PM
Cool, yeah I did see Mashatile outburst. But, the problem that I have with Ace, is that this his court trail will take two years, he will go on 'special leave', get paid his salary, and cost us tens of millions of rands. The ANC need to make examples of corrupt politicians. Like the travelgate dudes, the ANC paid off their corruption debt, and put them in top positions. Is that not rewarding corruption? As for procedures to follow, the procedures are merely slowing down justice. I dont trust the elites at Lithuli house anyways. The puppet masters, who run the government, whom we didnt vote for. Thats the makings of a secret society, like the apartheid governments 'broederbond'.

@samsam 7/7/2009 3:25:29 PM
By sending Ace to luthuli house you bypass the law, not implement it. Luthuli house does not have a right to administer justice. That is the role of the Courts of South Africa. A crime agianst the people of South Africa must be heard by the courts. It is not a matter of internal ANC discipline, it is a criminal matter. How can you cliam to be a patriot if you cannot make a distinction between a crime against SA and an internal disciplinary matter?

me 7/7/2009 3:35:25 PM
I just have a few questions who will manage these mines when they are nationalized? the ANC? the invisible "people"? and when they go bust like many state institutions where will the tax to bail themout come from? Rather let the miners get on with their business make big profit then Malema and his likes can nationalize the tax. the current SA government has no capacity to run a spaza shop, given all the illiterates.....

samsam @DHV 7/7/2009 3:37:30 PM
If you dont have facts you have something to hide, unfortunately I dint do english at school I did B Mgnt, thats the reason you cant comment 'cause you are caught

samsam 7/7/2009 3:42:25 PM
Remember, before the elections all parties forwarded nomination list to IEC who made approval, who to blame here, isnt you for being ignorant

Chris 7/7/2009 3:45:35 PM
A complete conflict of interests if you think about it. In order to obtain a mining right you need an approved Environmental managment plan and a social and Labour plan. The Department of minerals (Government) is the lead authority. Do you really think that the government will be able to be impartial when awarding a mining right to itself????? Environmentla management and the legislations are there to prevent what has happened before the MPRDA came into affect. Environmentla issues are paramount to the sucess of mining operations.

Sinudeity @DHV 7/7/2009 3:54:53 PM
Yeah, not everyones first language is english. Attacking someones spelling and grammaer is counter productive. Or can you not like to agree wif me?

@samsam 7/7/2009 4:02:13 PM
Hey samsam, going and do an economics course and then comment. Business Management? Spare us, please. Anyway, by blindly supporting the unethical ANC you show yourself to be a hypocrite when talking of social responsibility.

Nicholas 7/8/2009 5:48:20 AM
Please continue to nationalize the SA mines - it will be a big economic boost for our own mines Down Under!

samsam @ANONYMOUS 7/8/2009 1:20:02 PM
The reason you dont want to show your name is because you are not confident of yourself. Who must take Ace to court isnt the complainant,ANC is an official organisation,must follow its procedures of disciplinary actions,you wish ANC is banned, 11milion people voted for ANC it is recognised worldwide compared to your AWB, you sound like you still have old apartheid politics, you even hide yourself you are scared hey, comeup you have freedom of speech dont deny yourself the ANC fought for this, exploit it

shiza T 7/8/2009 2:34:26 PM
This is a ludicris debate , why ? TOTAL ECONOMIC BREAKDOWN ... ask Zim how their wholesale nationalisation of industries worked out for them . Why is this bad? 1. Tax payers will have to cough up for investment , deficits , operations , compensation and exploration . 2. Foreign/local investment will evaporate as there will be NO confidense in SA industries to provide ROI and risk at losing capital investment thru nationalisation 3. Loss of skills , these companies have contracts with employees who will be redeloyed internationally . The list goes on ... the arguement of it saving jobs is baseless as the nationalisation of mines will result in far more job losses . Its economic suicide !

Tarras Bulba 7/8/2009 8:47:06 PM
Haha. Capitalist propaganda? I think a lot of people are enchanted by the Robin Hood story. Now, Magapane, let uncle Tarras tell you a little about the real world. Listen closely, pumpkin .. capitalism exists to entice competition. Competition leads to progress. Communism tends to devoid everyone of ambition and interest .. oh, and it ALWAYS end in Totalitarian rule. Damn .. read 1984!!!!!

John Fulton 7/9/2009 9:21:19 AM
If intelligent and responsible South Africans allow nationalising of mines, then it is a serious indictment of their total lack of knowledge and or understanding of what dramatic effect this sort of action will have, not only on the national and regional economy, but on the individual lives of every South African, including the idiots who advocate it. Look at every country north of the Limpopo. Consider the results of them nationalising key industries. If Zimbabwe is not a prime indicator of the consequences of irresponsible and greedy governing through land and mining grabs, then heaven help us in our hours of loss of intelligence and dignity.

GP 7/9/2009 9:50:00 AM
What happened to Mzi? Are you feeling a bit out of your depth? Well written article mr Annandale.

inside news24

Weather
Traffic
Lottery
Cpt: 16-24°C Sunny. Mild. Pta: 17-28°C Scattered showers. Breaks of sun late. Mild.
Jhb: 16-28°C Widely scattered tstorms. Breaks of sun late. Warm. Bloem: 14-30°C Sunny. Pleasantly warm.
Dbn: 19-21°C Numerous showers. Breaks of sun late. Cool. PE: 19-24°C Mostly sunny. Mild.
7 day forecasts...

Jobs - Find your dream job

ONLINE CAMPAIGN MANAGER

Western Cape - Cape Town
24.com

System Analyst

Western Cape - Cape Town
Quiglies Solutions

Cars - Search 1000's of new and used cars

AUDI

2009 Audi A3 2.0 T Sportback Manual - 24000kms
Lava Grey & Tan leather interior
R 275 000

BMW

118i Hatch E87 5-dr
2009
R 229,000.00

AUDI

A4 1.8T FSi Ambition MY09
2008
R 289,000.00

HONDA

Jazz 1.4 i-DSI 5-dr MY05
2008
R 124,990.00

Property - Find a new home

DOORNPOORT

Single Residential R1,280,000

MONTANA

Multiple Unit R4,200,000

CAMPS BAY

Single Residential R4,995,000

Travel - Look, Book, Go!

Free Games - TOO MUCH NEWS? TAKE A BREAK!

Kalahari.net - shop online today

Great Festive Savings on Books

2.3 million titles to choose from.

Sleek New iPod Range. Order Your's Now!

iPod nano 16GB - Black, Was R2,499.00 Now R2,299.00! Save R200!

Fabulous Festive Flicks

46 000 DVDs and Blu-Ray on sale now! Pre-order Up and District 9!

ALL Music on Sale

100s of festive new releases now in stock! Now, Bump 25, Bon Jovi & more!

1000s of Festive Toys on Sale

Lots of Toys, free gift wrap, lowest prices on Lego Mindstorm, Ben 10, Hannah Montana & more!

Hot Deal of the Day!

All DVDs on Sale

46 000 titles to choose from!

District 9, UP, Ice Age, Transformers, Life & more!

Up to 40% Off Sale on All Books, Toys, CDs, DVDs & Games!