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Setumo Stone

South Africa
News24 User

A loyal son of the ANC

by Setumo Stone
2009-11-06 11:15

The past week saw the commemorations of Cope flying in thick and fast in the media space. But no one celebrated Thabo Mbeki's courage and loyalty to the ANC even when his ardent supporters continued to spit in the face of his beloved party. The popular suspicions then, suggested that Mbeki was a cadre caught between two worlds: his angry supporters and his legendary party. Was he, or was he not?

In his resignation speech on September 21 2008, Thabo Mbeki said: "I have been a loyal member of the African National Congress for 52 years. I remain of a member of the ANC and therefore respect its decisions". On the face of it, it seemed like Mbeki wanted to dispel any notion among his supporters that he was a coward. They were not to write him off as a weakling who gave in without a fight to Jacob Zuma and his leftist allies.

But Mbeki's pronouncement of loyalty to the ANC might have been deeper than the interpretation Cope's founders offered. It was more than an adherence to principle, but a desire to pave the way forward after bitter infighting and factionalism. He placed the objectives of the ANC's struggle above all personal squabbles and the desire for power.

Thabo Mbeki was a misunderstood man, and the guilty parties were to a large extent those who claimed to be defending his legacy. To complicate matters further, Mbeki sometimes misunderstood himself and what he represented.

For example, Mbeki was right when he blatantly stated that South Africa has two economies, one black and one white. His critics accused him - among other things - of defeating his predecessor's call for reconciliation, as if the process of reconciling can only thrive when the society is blind to reality.

However, it was his supporters who mostly misunderstood most of his insightful analysis to mean that Mbeki must be some kind of an irredeemable messiah: one who cannot be corrected. That Mbeki himself decided to contest for leadership in Polokwane on the grounds of such misguided support would be an indictment on his legacy.

Is it that Mbeki was obsessed with power, or was it his supporters who saw his power as an opportunity to sustain their political livelihood? To a certain extent it could be both, but the latter rings far more truthful. Mbeki’s supporters saw in him an opportunity to rule, thus Cope emerged with the slogan: "Ready to Govern".

Ironically, this particularly over inflated pronouncement resonated with the statement of the DA's founding fathers when they announced that their party will "contest for power". Maybe Cope should have learnt from DA that parties who exhibit a lust for power attain nothing more than the state of a "cry-crowd" in the opposition. It is only parties which represent the voice of the people who thrive and lead.

Anyway, I digress, but having said that, I don't think Mbeki should be held liable for what his friends say. I know Fikile Mbalula might disagree, since he had previously argued that Mbeki has a duty to denounce those who insult the ANC in his name. Yes, it is a reasonable expectation, but maybe Mbeki had long done that. He said: "I have been a loyal member of the African National Congress for 52 years. I remain of a member of the ANC and therefore respect its decisions".

The statement itself poses a painful question to the duo of Patrick Lekota and Mbhazima Shilowa, and one which history expects them to answer as soon as today: "Were they ever loyal members of the African National Congress?"

It was widely reported that the founders of Cope consulted thoroughly with Mbeki before announcing the decisions to cancel (not resign, only people in leadership position can resign, ordinary members of the ANC don’t resign) their membership of the ANC. It is not clear what the contents of the engagements might have been, but one could not be far off if he imagined that Mbeki would have said to them: "I have been a loyal member of the African National Congress for 52 years. I remain of a member of the ANC and therefore respect its decisions".

Such a response would be true because people volunteer - as individuals - to join the ANC, and retain the right to quit - voluntarily - if and when they wish to do so. It would be un-ANC for Mbeki to try and stop those who wish to exercise their democratic right to quit. Such is Mbeki's loyalty that he once again placed the principles of the ANC at the forefront.

Why then would the esteemed ladies and gentlemen in the media ask questions around which party Mbeki might have voted for during the previous general elections? This query is rather mischievous. It would not be unfair to suggest that a loyal member of a particular party would in all probabilities vote for that party.

It must be emphasised that contrary to popular assertion, the concept of loyalty does not simply derive its meaning from a "sheepish" mentality, but from a firm and critical belief in the ability and potential of a particular subject. I declare on record, and until proven otherwise, that Thabo Mbeki voted for the ANC during the 2009 general elections!

From this particular perspective it would be foolish - a state of confusion, an oxymoron - for Cope to continue on their course to champion a leader whose beloved party they despise. Much like people who celebrate Nelson Mandela but - through wishful thinking - attempt to disassociate the old man from a party he served with loyalty for decades.

It is time that Lekota and Shilowa tell the nation if they were ever loyal members of the ANC like Thabo Mbeki. If they were, then they must come home, where their leaders, friends, brothers and sisters will be awaiting them with open arms.

I'm firmly convinced that the time has arrived for the ANC to reclaim Mbeki's legacy. Therefore, Julius Malema must be commended for heaping praises on his former president when he said: "Thabo Mbeki is a hero of the ANC..."

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Jacques 11/6/2009 11:27:37 AM
Wow. What a massive waste of time reading this article. The truth is Mbeki was the most pathetic president South Africa ever had - and one of the most racist. He did nothing for the country except take it backward with his constant denialism - making Zuma's job that much more difficult. Mbeki's hands are stained with blood by failures at home with aids denials and in zim by creating peace "african style".That is Mbeki's legacy...

Boondokker 11/6/2009 11:29:23 AM
Good insightful article. Thanks Setumo.

fisher 11/6/2009 11:32:51 AM
wow... I almost fell asleep, couldn't finish reading this BORING article. Maybe its something only ANC worshippers would understand.

Lucky Ralawe 11/6/2009 11:33:35 AM
Mbeki has retired from politics. Let him enjoy his retirement in peace please Stone

Freedom 11/6/2009 11:34:42 AM
ANC remains the only party which can realistically change the fortunes of the Black Man in his forefarthers land for the better. I salute all ANC leaders.

Stryder 11/6/2009 11:35:35 AM
still trying to figure out how a democratically elected president can be fired by a political party.

whatever 11/6/2009 11:38:50 AM
Guy if you havent noticed its a friday.sTOP boring us with this boring story .I dont care if he was loyal .LOL

fraud 11/6/2009 11:38:54 AM
It would be interesting to hear comments from cope members. Till this day, at cope rallies, they sing Mbeki songs and wear Mbeki t-shirts. Maybe there's something they know that we don't. Maybe Mbeki really did conceptualize cope and orchastrated it. After all, I personally don't think Mbazima and Lekota have in them (no capacity) to have pulled it off on their own. Time will tell I guess...

eBas 11/6/2009 11:39:11 AM
Yawn!

Carlo 11/6/2009 11:40:42 AM
Loyalty is commendable and noble but not at the expense of common sense. If you look at the history of the WORLD (Yes, there is actually more than South Africa out there) the persons who questioned their institutions are the ones that have made the most fundamental changes in history. Intelligence and common sense should (yes, I used should on purpose) always rule over loyalty. No institution is indefinitely and not all defectors are traitors, whether it be of changing policy or trying to revert back to the roots of an institution you will always find at least some gems between the mud that can question and think for themselves. Remember my friend, even the great Rome came to a fall because of decadence, the ANC era is following the route of all previous great eras, loyalty, complacent, questioning and then eventually hate for your very own WILL follow as the ANC spirals towards it’s doom! Maybe not in our lifetimes, but history is ever so patient…

cindy 11/6/2009 11:41:04 AM
hmmm.. maybe i'm just tired, but can SOMEONE please explain to me what the point of this article was?

James 11/6/2009 11:41:31 AM
What is the point of this article? The only thing that stood out was "It is only parties which represent the voice of the people who thrive and lead." Does the ANC truly represent the people? Does it command loyalty after the shabby way it treated Mbeki? Does it deserve SA respect when we are all confronted by the corruption and mismanagement of funds on a daily basis?

Bongani 11/6/2009 11:41:32 AM
I was still waiting to hear how you support your statement that: "Mbeki sometimes misunderstood himself and what he represented." Really? Are you perhaps prone to misunderstanding yourself that you assume Mbeki could be sharing this ludicrous state of mind with you?

Yes, The Woodworker did say :"Thabo Mbeki is a hero of the ANC..." What you conveniently forget to mention as you misunderstand yourself is that when JZ asked the ANC hoodlums to leave them man alone, the Woodworker said in reply Mbeki was a "dead snake" and he must be "buried." Mbeki was then recalled.

Oh, lastly, if Mbeki was voted for the ANC as your bones told you, why did he say "only God knows which party will win the elections?" Could he have lost faith in the ANC once the lynchmob lefties unseated him? Remember, he was single-handedly able to keep them out of government, and to ensure that those who got in (Alec Erwin, Fraser-Moleketi, Mdhladhlana, etc), moved away from the "far-left" failed theories such as socialism/communism, which JZ is completely unable to do as the "far left" dictate every government policy?

Poloyatonki 11/6/2009 11:43:14 AM
If Lekota and Shilowa do come back then Holomisa must also come back, and any one who left ANC, except for the guys who moved from NP to DA. Then ANC will be the greatest organization in this land.

Baas Koos 11/6/2009 11:43:20 AM
@ Freedom..... dont you mean break everything now and in the future?

Halfwise 11/6/2009 11:44:39 AM
I personally don’t wanna see or hear about Mbeki. He did not do nothing about Aids, Crime, Poverty, Education, Roy Bernett, Corruption…. He messed up the country for 8 years. He is a back stabber and a dead snake thanks God he is gone. JZ has to work overtime because of him.

fraud 11/6/2009 11:44:41 AM
@Stryder....not sure how many times we've been told that in SA, you vote for a party, not a person. A party then decides who will represent THEM as a presidential candidate. Surely that concept is not rocket science. That's the system we have. If you want to change it, vote for cope coz in their manifesto they said they would change the system. They said they would introduce a system where citizens voted for an individual, and not a party.

Khaya 11/6/2009 11:51:30 AM
What a boring article what were you trying to say.

lindani ntenteni 11/6/2009 11:56:15 AM
i'm inclined to share the view that says mbeki, his imperfections notwithstanding, remains a loyal cadre of the anc despite all the suffering in the hands of his fellow comrades, that on its own betrays political depth and maturity on his part and his loyalty is guided by his firm belief in the anc's founding principles that never put self above the people.

celumusa 11/6/2009 11:56:29 AM
mr mbeki was not that bad look at present president giving police the power to go on a kiling spree

JD 11/6/2009 11:58:53 AM
So what was that meant to say? Loyalty to a party/movement = fascism. Loyalty to a country = patriotism.

POST MY COMMENTS PLEASE 11/6/2009 11:58:59 AM
mmmmmmmm the article headline is "a loyal son of the ANC" and is it not the same ruling party that asked the loyal son to step down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lungie 11/6/2009 11:59:49 AM
Long and Boring article.

@Halfwise 11/6/2009 11:59:51 AM
Before JZ overthrew Mbeki you could do nothing but praise the man. As soon as Malema says he is a snake you say he is a snake, if little baby Julius told you to jump of a cliff you would.

The Beginner 11/6/2009 12:02:16 PM
Thabo Mbeki left a legacy which Jacob Zuma has to aggressively correct. 200,000 people were murdered on Mbeki's watch amongst corruption, municipality degredation and the worst reverse racism the world has ever seen in the form of the unethical BEE and AA laws. He was successful and a hero? Yip, Only to those who aspire to such atrocities and commend the outcome. Mbeki should by lynched. He is by far the worst prez this country has ever had. His supporters are in the same league. Always aloof and in another country, trying to be a super-mandela? What a disgrace to even write his name. Viva Zuma!

Glock 22 11/6/2009 12:04:36 PM
Time is going to show you son's of the anc how great they are ! The anc is one huge corruption , self enriching party. But dont take my word for it just wait and see.

craig 11/6/2009 12:05:23 PM
thats probably because Mr Mbeki didnt do much in his time as president. I mean look at his oxymoron "quite diplomacy"...i mean how do you expect anything to happen if you're being quite about it??

wasnt a nice way for him to leave office tho, not good for SA's political stance with overseas countries either!

Chegoane Mabelane 11/6/2009 12:09:12 PM
He said "I have been a loyal member of the African National Congress for 52 years. I remain of a member of the ANC...."

From statement above: He clearly was and no longer a loyal member. Clearly it was not by accident that he didn't state that he remain LOYAL member of the ANC. This is the man who remained mum when his big poster was displayed in Cope campaign held in Polokwane few days before the election. When he was a loyal member of the ANC we celebrated that but now there is no point in celebrating a man who silently endorsed Cope when his face was used to get more electorates.

noel 11/6/2009 12:10:53 PM
Ag shame welcome to the other side

@Freedom 11/6/2009 12:11:54 PM
You mean change that of only a hand full of close buddies. The rest who keep them in power will suffer till jesus comes. Willem Griesel

Cynical@author 11/6/2009 12:13:26 PM
What a great insightful article, written by a gifted individual with an IQ of at least 9. The author deserves to be awarded this week's prize for great journalism: A month of free treatment in the mental hospital of his choice.

Thobi @Bongani 11/6/2009 12:14:00 PM
Hey Bongani, your comments were far more insightful and interesting to read than the article itself. Please consider writting your own sometime soon.

Stryder@fraud 11/6/2009 12:15:00 PM
Sorry fraud, but the President is an employee of all the citizens of the country, not just the party he belongs to. I would never try to change anything in this country to something that makes sense. The ANC's uneducated voting fodder makes that impossible. But if what you say is accurate, then we are truly screwed. The current system is then even more rotten to the core than I thought.

Juan 11/6/2009 12:18:33 PM
ANC is a terrorist organisation aiming to enrich a few elitists while the country suffers. NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF.

touch 11/6/2009 12:19:46 PM
insightful..but i gues Thabo was not an inspiring leader during his term. More of an elite wrongly placed with the masses! His strength was his intellectual prowess, and this also led to his down fall. When you are like that, you hardly listen to people. There was nothing in it for him at cope, cope was simply hopeless!

@ cindy 11/6/2009 12:21:18 PM
Yes you are tired, i suggest u find a nearest bed and sleep and please do us a favour and dont wake up, the article is about Mbeki's loyalty to the ANC and voted as such and the article is also quetioning if Mbazima and Shikota were loyal members of the african national congress

Jordan 11/6/2009 12:21:57 PM
Double yawn...

motobi radebe 11/6/2009 12:23:17 PM
looking at things from a positive perspective concerning Mbeki, this article is good, in his human nature he might have failed to see what was coming to him when he stood for the anc president's election for the third time, but that deos not take away the fact that he is loyal to the anc. good article.

Mimi 11/6/2009 12:24:46 PM
@Jacques. Think a little. Well on second thoughts I think that would too hard for you to do. Mbeki's the Best Leader we've ever had in this country. Our economy under his leadership was doing well. Internationally, South Africa was well respected when he was still in power, pity I cant say the same now about the current leadership. His african renaissance saw Africa regaining its dignity. I can go on and on. So according to you, who has been the best leader in South Africa, P.W Botha maybe???

Bongani to Lindani 11/6/2009 12:38:07 PM
Lindani I like your statement about Mbeki to the effect that one should "...never put self above the people." Now does buying top of the range BMWs, Mercs, Range Rovers etc, during recession when everyone knows someone who has been retrenched amount to "never put self above the people?" for the current bunch? Time to wake up my brother. SA is burning under JZ and his mini-Malema

Eles 11/6/2009 12:43:48 PM
Maybe what I wrote before was too harsh as it wasn't published basically I wanted to add that your article was indeed hogwash and time I won't get back and wanted to make the point of who cares if the other two were loyal members of the ANC or not it is of no relevance. I commend them for been capable of thinking for themselves. One political party domination is not a democracy and most unhealthy. It encourages people to rest on their laurels and do little else. Mbeki was very racist so I did not and don't respect him. I just wish the freaking masses would get a clue because blind loyalty and fanaticism leads to what the rest of African countries are currently experiencing, do you want to go and live there cause you might as well - if this country continues at this pace we will make Zim look like a 1st world country. Consider Zim and its new moves - how can backward greedy politicans destroy an entire country and still continue to be in power - I would encourage all aid to be witheld from that country. Let's face it any money given goes into Grace's shopping expeditions and the people still suffer - funny that in the interest of shared land all government ministers and relatives snapped up the best of the lot why can people not see through communist motives?. Setumo - wake up and get a clue.

Skippy 11/6/2009 12:49:42 PM
Boring, Mbeki is old news. Rather write about something usefull, like potholes in the streets of JHB.

The Beginner 11/6/2009 12:50:38 PM
@Mimi. I suggest Jan Smuts as the best leader this country has ever had. Then they change the airports name to that of a struggler who is not even worthy of Smuts' shadow. This they did on Mbeki's watch (how things degrade). RSA was destined to do well economically under any leadership. Would have been much more successful under someone like Tony Leon, Helen Zille. Heck, even under Malema, it would have done OK and in your terms "well". Zille/Leon would have taken SA from mediocre well to GREAT! Africa still has little to zero dignity. It's the diplomacy of the west and east which boosts the perception of "dignity". Africa and it's people are useless if compared to any other continent. Now please go on.

Juan 11/6/2009 12:53:48 PM
the 300 000 preventable AIDS DEATHS under mbek's reign of incompetence is strangely omitted from the article..

Dries 11/6/2009 12:54:14 PM
So in short you like Mbeki because he ,like you, mistakenly believes all white people have great well paying jobs, brilliant education and a bond free home? That would make you both ignorant racists.

fraud 11/6/2009 12:55:21 PM
@Stryder....the current voting system is one of those things that was always there (since the days of Verwoed), that the ANC never changed.

mikejenson 11/6/2009 12:56:40 PM
With his preventing and hampering the anti retroviral drugs roll out, Mbeki is guilty of mass murder.

Mimi 11/6/2009 1:00:53 PM
@The beginner. You've got serious mental issues..you're a waste of time

Jo 11/6/2009 1:01:29 PM
Hmmm - Patriotism, is the last refuge of a scoundrel (Samuel Johnson). I look forward to a time when free thought is not construed as betrayal. I hated it when told not to think by the Nats under apartheid, and I hate it now. We simply have to do better than this.

Spartan 11/6/2009 1:04:21 PM
bla...bla...what are you trying to say...elections are only in 2011, its too early for your propaganda. What you need is a decent opposition, breath more & you might just see the light.

SimonP@Mimi 11/6/2009 1:06:54 PM
"Mbeki's the Best Leader we've ever had" He denied AIDS leading to 300000 deaths, he denied crime stating it was a perception not a reality, he oversaw the wasting of billions of Rand on the arms deal. If hes the best then your expectations are extremely low.

Ghostbuddy 11/6/2009 1:13:36 PM
I also want to put on record that T-Man, during the period prior to Polokoane when he decided to contest against JZ, to the time when he was relieved of his duties, that he was a confused man not knowing what to do. He might have voted for Shikota out of personal anger.I therefore doubt his loyality to the party of his Father. His mother who happens to be his mentor too, was also put on record that she will be voting for Shikota. T-Man refused to canvass for the party that he claimed is loyal to. Up to date he does not want to be associated with the party he clains he is loyal to. Then unless if loyality has a different conotation when dealing with T-Man, then I will understand.

I think the man is still bitter, given his overweight ego. If he is not he must come out and actively partake in the activities of the party he is loyal to. Utata Madiba up until today he now and then reminds us that the first thing he will do while in Heaven is to search for the bearest ANC Branch, to join the movement beyond this life...Aluta

Annie Rennie 11/6/2009 1:16:13 PM
My previous comment wasn't published, so I'm trying again ??? To FREEDOM who salutes the ANC Leaders, you seriously living in your own little world, your people will have nothing very very soon !!!!!!!!!!! Wake up and smell your socks

Thuli 11/6/2009 1:16:14 PM
ENOUGH...How about we Nationalise the Fortune of the Guy who has just won lotto twice....LOL

zenus 11/6/2009 1:19:06 PM
MBHEKI WAS TO SMART FOR THIS COUNTRY,HIS POINTS WERE NEVER UNDERSTOOD.SURE HE WAS POWER HUNGRYBUT HEY WHAT CAN YOU DO WHEN YOU SEE AN OPPOTUNITY TO CONTROL.

nada 11/6/2009 1:20:07 PM
great article. great insight. don't mind the negative losers commenting... forward with the struggle, forward. as long as saouth africa is divided into two economies btwn the white minority and black majority aluta continua

The Beginner 11/6/2009 1:22:44 PM
Take note everyone. See Mimi's undignified response to The Beginner. Attack the person! No further debate or cerebral challenge. It's clear why Mimi is a fan of Mbeki. There now. The truth revealed.

Blackaugust27 11/6/2009 1:27:01 PM
Great article Setumo Stone and for the other negative idiots out there Si vis pacem, parebellum "... " If you want peace, prepare the war. Once u understand that you will understand leadership and the legacy Thabo Mbeki brought to this wonderful land I call home. If God ever intended use to stand in his shoes and you failed I wonder how would use juge yourselfs or justify yor actions. It's easy to juge why not reason and suggest and give a helping hand to better our land or are you to proud and blame others for not doing there job. We are all responsible.

JR 11/6/2009 1:27:12 PM
Setumo I think you pose relevant questions and making some strong assertions. Loyalty may only be defined through one's actions and Mr T Mbeki has demonstrated his loyalty to the ANC. Firtsly he stepped down when the ANC asked him to and secondly he did not go around spitting vulgar against his party, the ANC. He re-call was painful and as Setswana idiom goes "a swa se-nku" literally translated "he took it like a sheep being slaughtered". Mbeki did not advance any excuses. Instead he asured the nation that there was no crisis to our state. Mbeki did not join the ANC for gain, like Mr Mandela and Mr Tambo. (By the way, the political and social standards that Oliver Tambo and Jan Smuts fought for are not the same. Oliver Tambo fought for the liberation of South Africa from any kind of appression and dicrimination and for a country in which all are equal. On the other hand Mr Smuts was a white leader in a white dominated state which Tambo was opposed to.)

Stryder@Fraud 11/6/2009 1:28:49 PM
"...the current voting system is one of those things that was always there (since the days of Verwoed), that the ANC never changed." and your point is. I still think it sucks (if I had been old enough to understand elections in those days I also would have thought it sucked). Trust the ANC to be the first to ab(use) it though. Not like them to ever miss a loop hole.

BEYONCE 11/6/2009 1:35:05 PM
..JR 100% ....

Chris 11/6/2009 1:36:45 PM
The problem with this article is that it isn’t about Mbeki as it is disguised to be. It’s about the ANC unwillingness to allow free democracy, and they are scared by COPE. Leave COPE alone to become a real opposition that is what free democracy is all about, people are free to change their support if they do not agree with the s**t that is going on.

Biza@Juan 11/6/2009 1:36:57 PM
Since when is an Aids death preventable?

Nono 11/6/2009 1:45:40 PM
Editor plese always use the ENTER THE TEXT (case sensitive) method to hear our comments,this method is too slow and I've been trying to send my comments but it never shows them.Please

Mimi 11/6/2009 1:47:55 PM
@the Beginner.Ok show me that you're capable of using your brain then we can engage into a debate..goodluck

fedup 11/6/2009 1:50:22 PM
jeeeerrr man, its a friday,the sun is out and things are generally calm. really now STOP with the MBEKI CRAP, your article is soooooooooooooo boring, i dont think even you know what the f.... you're saying. i tell you what though: you've made me even more dors now. plonker!!!

@Biza 11/6/2009 1:56:53 PM
have you heard of ARVs?

FISHER 11/6/2009 1:57:20 PM
@ Biza - Preventing Aids - they are called CONDOMS.

chris 11/6/2009 1:59:41 PM
Next elections I'm not voting FF AWB DA COPE or any of the other oposition parties again just for the sake of not supporting the ANC, I'll vote for the "Taxpayers party" in full support of the Taxpayers party!!!

BEYONCE 11/6/2009 2:03:27 PM
and a SHOWER, Fisher.

mike 11/6/2009 2:20:10 PM
Mr Mbeki was certainly loyal to the ANC. However, he was not loyal to his supporters, or to his country. The graves of thousands of mainly ANC supporters, from the north to the south, from the west to the east, bear testimony to that.In my opinion, Mr Mbeki took South Africa backwards, and the trend is continuing.

Zee 11/6/2009 2:23:36 PM
Mbeki drove this country to where it's at at the moment. He (and his cabinet) denied crime was a problem, completely obliterated the public health system, somehow managed to make education even worse that it was, denied AIDS was a big problem, supported corrupted ministers etc etc. I couldn't give a crap about loyalty to the ANC, he was a terrible president and an even worse human being. After Madiba's tenure, I have to say Mbeki was a complete anti-climax to what this country could have become.

cindy @ whoever the comment was from?? 11/6/2009 2:35:58 PM
*yawn* the article made more sense than YOU did, want to try that again?

BEYONCE 11/6/2009 2:45:38 PM
Zee.If being a liar was a sin as it is,and if a sin in S.A was a crime,U would have been sentenced to 10 life sentences..U are a multiple liar,just don't want to face the Truth that the ANC leadership under Zuma has already failed...Mbeki suported corrupted ministers ??? WOW!!! I guess the Holy ZUMA will turn S.A to Heaven ...

legend 11/6/2009 2:47:35 PM
What a waste of time reading your article someone like Thabo Mbeki need not to be commemorated because he is divisive and a very bad example to our future leaders. He did very little to our country.And the justice system of the country almost collapse just because of his favouratism. Lastly big up to him because he took his NPA to go form CONPA Congress of national prosecution party

Tshwarelo@Author 11/6/2009 2:53:20 PM
"as if the process of reconciling can only thrive when the society is blind to reality"

That sounds very nice.

BEYONCE 11/6/2009 3:12:23 PM
Amen Legend !!!! which future leaders, MALMA ??? haha haha....PLEASE JOIN THE WAYANS BROTHERS...You're the Commedian in the Making....LOL

Lou 11/6/2009 3:13:02 PM
Mbeki can take the credit for many positive things. The single biggest mistake he and every ANC govenment leader has made/makes is that they are loyal to the ANC first in spite of our constitution defining accountability to the country when holding a government position. This is the single biggest dividing factor in our population because, as a supporter of another party, I can celebrate a leader of the country if their loyalty to the country is superceded their party loyalty. If not, then I'm sidelined by virtue of my political choice. Ironically, constitutionally this should not happen. You can argue that it is my mindset, or choice, but it is true.

Mtha 11/6/2009 3:28:20 PM
What a article uMbeki a legend indeed, a Man who has championed the cause of Africans till the end. He said it himself only History will judge him. He paved a way for SA fortunes from mere GDP of R100 billions to now R841 Billion. Championed African renaissence as clever people reliases that African is a turning point Few wars and Africa GDP is growing and counting. He was not afraid to take on IMF and the World Bank which are now changing in their quest to remain relevant. He knew that racism and inequality was rife in SA and he was not afraid to say. That is why Tony Leon was delighted to be given a handshake when he resigned from policts by the Greatest stateman Africa has ever seen. He convinced Pik Botha, Marthinus (Afrikaner intellectuals) who joined the ANC that the only way for South Africa, Afrikaaners and Africa is to face the challenges head on. I am impressed, Mbeki meant this when he spoke about the need of African intellegensia

BEYONCE 11/6/2009 3:42:21 PM
LASTLY. at those that keep on bringing the Mbeki Goverment to their failure...are clearly showing us their Mental illness,Did Mbeki ever mention Mandela's failures during his regime ?? Today people are justifying their extravagance with the Past.... This new BLING style says it all....Mbeki was a 1st class,Itellectual,Reserved,Moral leader ever in S.A,I wish I could say the same with others.

@Mtha 11/6/2009 3:45:58 PM
"IMF and the World Bank which are now changing in their quest to remain relevant" What a bizarre statement!

POST MY COMMENTS PLEASE @chris 11/6/2009 3:48:16 PM
chris 11/6/2009 1:59:41 PM LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!! I kept on coming back to read your comment and cracked up laughing

chimurenga 11/6/2009 3:50:20 PM
Wow comrade Setumo, your article fails, line after line, to drive your point home. Much like a child who walks into a candy shop, not quite sure which candy to go for first. Likewise you go from one point to another, with the previous point left halfbaked. Your over eagerness to heap praise on the fallen one is remarkable.
How, for instance, do we weight up loyalty v performance? Which one of the two comes before the other. Please figure that out before compiling your next praise song. Geez, these types of writing by abo comrade Setumo reminds one of the 70's, totally out of place, especially if the one who is being praised has caused the untold misery of many, ala Thabo Mbeki. We dont all belong to the Mbeki fan club, Setumo, save it for the club's next gathering

Confused 11/6/2009 4:10:30 PM
whats your point ?

Mtha 11/6/2009 4:13:18 PM
what pertubes me more is the recent stunt by Zuma and his people. Forgive Reitz offenders, forgive mercenaries and preaching to us about Mandela and telling us about about that irrelevant stoogie called Bishop Tutu. This country is indeed going backwards. We have forgiven enough Ithink it is time that Zuma understand that we do not need another Mandela, Tutu or Jesus Christ what we need is justice. The unthankful racist minority do not appreciate "Forgiveness" Lets go the Bosnia way or better still lets do like the world did to the Nazi's. I am tired of this Buntu bull

Boerseun 11/6/2009 4:39:07 PM
@Freedom - For once you have a good insight. yes the ANC wil make a realistic change in you and your people's fortunes, not that you had a fortune to start out with. The realistic part is that they will even rob you of the little bit you had to start off with. 15 years down their lane, you have not even realized what they have been doing to you and the future of the youth.

Frank II 11/6/2009 4:53:28 PM
A hero for some but let us be realistic:

He denied the existence of HIV/AIDS, he denied the rampant violent crime in the country, he refused to have the ARMS DEAL investigated, he told ESKOM not to build new power stations when they warned him of the impending crisis and, instead of promoting nation-building, he focused on racial propaganda!

Under his 'leadership' BEE and AA became reverse discrimination against white people - of which 600 000 now live in shacks and tents. He was also keen to 'deploy' ANC cadres in key positions, people who couldn't or wouldn't do what they were paid to do, which crippled our society on all levels.

Don't forget how he stroke the back of Robert Mugabe while the latter was destroying his own country's economy and agriculture, leading to millions of people fleeing into neighboring countries, which eventually led to xenophobic attacks in SA, leaving hundreds of people dead or injured. The Police 'Service' watched helplessly.

Another dark chapter in our history...

Dave 11/6/2009 7:20:52 PM
I agree that Mbeki wasn't great when it came to our internal matters, but he definitely put South Africa on the international map - he built up solid foreign relations with countries all over the world. For that reason I do have respect for him. JZ has come at the right time - he seems to be the only capable person who can fix our internal struggle. I believe that he can communicate well with the masses, and he honestly has the best interests for all the people of SA. This coming from a DA supporter. Pro-Zuma but anti-ANC!

Nicolas 11/6/2009 8:04:41 PM
many of the comments below completely ignore Mbeki's successes. Some of his foreign policies did wonders for Africa, and will pay off in the future for the continent. A healthy Africa is good for South Africa. We will see his legacy bear fruit.

malie 11/6/2009 9:09:44 PM
yea this article have a point but i struggle to understand on what mbeki mentioned on a speech that he has been a loyaly member for 52 years an he respect the party decision while he failed the party during the campagn for 2009 election a loyaly member work for the party

jesus 11/6/2009 9:20:52 PM
do u people this guy (article??? from the outside we have even a better view what is really going on in South Africa

Cracker 11/6/2009 9:22:41 PM
Loyalty to any particular political party will not save this country. If it is not already too late. Level-headedness and common sense are needed.

jorene 11/6/2009 9:23:11 PM
The world respected South Africa under the leadership of Mr Mbeki. Today, the world thinks we are idiots.

jorene 11/6/2009 9:27:32 PM
Mtha, you said it all, my thoughts exactly.

unity 11/7/2009 6:19:23 AM
I agree with you 100% Mtha! How a man who has contributed so much to South Africa, the ANC, and the African continent can be so abused verbally by some people in SA is shocking. There is no rationality in the debate - it is a form of violence. Is this the way we differ - with personal attacks and vilification? His "style of leadership" and his contributions are two different things, and people are mixing them up. Nobody is perfect! Give credit where it is due for goodness sakes. History will judge him, and it has already begun. His dignified silence is welcomed. Many people in SA and all over the world respect former President Thabo Mbeki, and are shocked by the vitriol and mean spiritedness. If we do not respect our leaders and intellectuals, who will? Who wins when we paint our leaders in this way? I ask myself who is orchestrating this vilification and violent language, and for what purpose? To keep us continously divided, and at war with each other as African people?

@Biza 11/7/2009 11:08:05 AM
HIV/Aids does not kill in 5 years, not in 10 (95% of the time). You should get about 10 to 15 years without treatment in decent living conditions.with treatment up to 20/25 years after infection.

Joburg Joe 11/7/2009 11:29:11 AM
" Mbeki sometimes misunderstood himself and what he represented "

Hahahahahahahahahahaha...nice one buddy, thats made my day

FACT 11/7/2009 11:55:46 AM
The ANC is like a warped antonym of the Robin Hood fairytale, they rob from the poor to give to the rich. As long as the ANC is in power the majority of black South Africans will continue to suffer and struggle. It’s the ANC way. Once you get into a position of power you earn the right to enrich yourself with public funds.

The only reason why the whites in SA still have money is because we have thousands of years of experience in dealing with it and understanding its relationship to wealth. It’s not your fault, its like opening a book on the last few chapters, reading it and trying to understand it. We wrote the book on money. It could even be argued that money has destroyed African culture. Before we came here money was as foreign as ducks in the dessert.
Even loyalty can be bought in Africa, or should i rather say rented.

unity 11/7/2009 5:10:25 PM
Why is the response I wrote yesterday in support of Mtha's posting not printed? Is this a form of editing - complete elimination of a comment? I am surprised.

ZION 11/8/2009 10:28:22 AM
Thabo Mbeki and his minister of Health should be tried in The Hague for crimes against mankind re his/her handling of the aids crises and subsequent deaths

Andy 11/8/2009 8:23:03 PM
endless dribble...

geanann 11/9/2009 9:40:48 AM
That be the man, who according to the SACP, should with his accomplice Manto, be strung up to the nearest tree for genocide.
See:http://letterdash.com/g.annandale/zuma-mbeki-and-the-bugs

Onke 11/9/2009 11:30:38 AM
@zion.You simply cannot blame Mr Mbeki for aids...you have stupid people still not using protection , making babies like there's no tomorrow when they can't even feed thwmselves and u expect our country to take care of these ppl ?? i'm sorry no ways!! already they're used o this culture of expecting everything for free ... free education; free healhcare ,free houses etc...People have to take responsibility for thier actions if not why don't we blame global warming on Mbeki too and while we're at it lets blame the recession on him too afterall he was still the president when it began, come on people this is just ridiculous !!!

Bluelightbrigade 11/10/2009 4:44:53 PM
Good post Setumo.

It's a prime example of alliegiances with the ANC.

Just me 11/10/2009 5:36:52 PM
what a waste of time reading thiss.

Just me 11/10/2009 5:36:58 PM
what a waste of time reading thiss.

legend 11/10/2009 8:51:40 PM
He is a bad example to our future leaders we can all recall when he insisted to be elected for the third time as the president of the ANC in Polokwane. So that he can able to run this country with remote control. Just look at what he is doing to former former general secretary of cosatu.If he happens to know your secrets you must do as he likes or else he will expose you. I used like The guy (referring to the guy in tape of telephone conversation between LM and BN

Jymira 11/11/2009 12:14:57 AM
What a good and inspirationa article

clone 11/11/2009 8:16:16 AM
What! Are you all a bunch of pre-programmed, tunnel visioned, follow-me-to-the-grave morons? I bet Mugabe's generals are sons of ZANU-PF and it has cost Zimbabwe deeply! Or perhaps Mugabe is the son of ZANU-PF?? Crisis! What crisis? The ANC put themselves above South Africa and are a corrupt bunch of selfish, egotistical above-the-law, arrogant fools. Reminds me of the pied piper of hamlin - read it fool!

mad hatter 11/11/2009 3:31:17 PM
Loyalty is not unconditional , a mistake many make including Thabo is thinking that it is (the silent quo resulting in his ousting in 2008 is evidence to that fact) . Anyone who makes up their mind before hearing the issue is an idiot , many of these roam our streets . Revolutionaries make poor governers and the anc must grasp this .

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