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New dinosaur discovered in SA

2009-11-11 12:48

kalahari.net

Johannesburg - Scientists at the University of Witwatersrand on Wednesday announced the discovery of a new species of dinosaur, that appears to link the earliest dinosaurs with the large plant-eating sauropods.

"It's one of the big jewels South Africa has," Dr Adam Yates, from the Bernard Price Institute for Palaeontological Research, told journalists in Johannesburg.

The vegetarian dinosaur is an estimated 195 million years old and about seven metres long; and was discovered in the town of Senekal, near Bethlehem in the Northern Free State.

It has been named Aardonyx celestae, which means "Earth Claw" ("Aard" - Afrikaans for Earth, plus "Onyx" - Greek for claw) - an appropriate name, given that the large, earth-encrusted foot claws were some of the first bones to be discovered at the site.

"We think it was a biped, a slow moving heavy bodied creature with a huge barrel chest and a small head to strip foliage," Yates said. 

A reconstruction of the skull of Aardonyx. The known parts are shaded in. (Adam Yates, University of Witwatersrand)


According to Yates it was a "living fossil" that would have been old, even amongst other dinosaurs.

"The earliest ancestral dinosaur - the great grand-daddy of all dinosaurs - walked on two legs. This one is intermediate between those bipedal forms and the true gigantic sauropods," he explained.

"It tells us the change over was not smooth, and the evolution was complicated."

The discovery was made by a Wits postgraduate palaeontology student, Marc Blackbeard, who began excavating two sites in the Northern Free State, five years ago, under the leadership of Yates.

"We knew that there was likely to be some fossils in these 'bone beds' discovered by James Kitching about 20 years ago, but we did not expect to find anything of this magnitude," said Yates.


- News24


T REX 11/11/2009 1:19:54 PM
A slow moving heavy bodied creature with a huge barrel chest and a small head - sounds like a cross between Os du Rant and Julius Melema.

Pieter 11/11/2009 1:20:37 PM
Another missing link for those who not believe in the SCIENCE of evolution..

Henk Voges 11/11/2009 1:23:07 PM
No man!! It's a member of parliament!!

Science? 11/11/2009 1:42:37 PM
Notice how much of the skull they've found compared to how much they've drawn themselves - amazing! Is this analogous to Evolutionary theory?

ITpro 11/11/2009 1:58:57 PM
And from those view bones, they can determine the age? Carbon dating canoot go that far back...pure speculation.

bekkie 11/11/2009 2:06:51 PM
It does not matter how old it seems to be. God still created it. It lived and died, the way all life on earth goes.

cois 11/11/2009 2:08:10 PM
estimated 195 million years... (yawn) uh huh... if you clever scientists say so...

Biza 11/11/2009 2:11:16 PM
I'm sure god can explain this lol

Remo 11/11/2009 2:12:28 PM
Great discovery.

Couldn't help laughing my but off at T REX, Pieter and Henk's comments, pretty funny.

Hein 11/11/2009 2:19:28 PM
There isnt a single proof of evolution on earth.There is however cross breeding and the survival of the fittist.Even man has become 25cm longer over the last 500 years with no other changes.

graham@pieter 11/11/2009 2:19:36 PM
One question still needs to be answered for one who doesnt believe in evolution, how many supposed pieces are still missing. Do we have a few pieces or a nearly completed puzzle. It is more correct to speak of evolution in terms of scientific theory. After all, there are no missing pieces of e=mc2 now are there. We call that science

Guy 11/11/2009 2:21:23 PM
You can read more detail of the discovery on http://dracovenator.wordpress.com/ including how many bones and how many individuals were discovered.
According to the paper, the bones were found in the "Upper Elliot Formation" putting the age at 183 to 200 million years.
But do you know how they know the age of the "formations"? By the age of the fossils they find (not by atomic dating). This is circular reasoning. Use your own judgement to decide if this is a valid ageing method.

Aki 11/11/2009 2:24:46 PM
Looks like they wanted the bones to be that of a dinosaur. Good piece of art.

Ratattack 11/11/2009 2:26:46 PM
Pieter, you are a twit. God greated dinors - two are even mentioned in Job: Behemoth leviathan. Give it a break boet. Rather worry about how on earth life could have begun. Leading evolutionists even admit that they are absolutely clueless: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoncJBrrdQ8 and for good reason: http://www.icr.org/article/origin-life-critique-early-stage-chemical-evolutio/

Cynical Scientist 11/11/2009 2:37:13 PM
@Science?: It looks like about 60% of the skull is there. Does one just ignor clues unless there's a complete fossil. Looking at conservation of the number of bones in the skull across the animal taxa, it is quite often to make an estimation as to what is missing. Sometimes it's what is missing that is the most important discovery. You must remember that this fossil is not ust viewed in isolation but in comparison. Knowing Prof Yates personally, I know he is not a man to make assumptions lightly. He is the discoverer of many dinos with a focus on sauropods, so he should have some idea what the rest of the skull is likely to look like.

Frost 11/11/2009 2:38:35 PM
Are you kidding me? So they draw a picture of what they think it may look like and then try to get the bones they find to fit?? Ha Ha!!!!!!!! Evolution takes more faith to believe in!!

Enough Said 11/11/2009 2:44:09 PM
They found George Claasen's great grand-daddy. Sure can tell from this picture and the contents of its stomach that it must have been a herbivore. What a load of junk. Never good at puzzle but can the pieces not fit into any drawing?

Stunned 11/11/2009 2:50:36 PM
Geeezz. I am stunned by the total lack of intelligence displayed in the majority of comments to this story. People this is SCIENCE and yes, here are specialists involved who actually KNOW what they are doing, It's called palaeontology...google it! And no, they are not making all of this up....sigh...and we've got to build a nation with you guys...This is the 21st century for Pete's sake!

Neels 11/11/2009 2:55:32 PM
T REX, you hit the nail on the (small) head!

johan 11/11/2009 2:57:02 PM
i find this extremely interesting ... south africa, and indeed the whole continent, is a veritable "hotbed" of prehistoric large animal activity ...

for the ignoramusus above (and you KNOW who you are) ... this comment facility is not for daft remarks ...

jeesh ..

LJ 11/11/2009 2:58:45 PM
^^^^^^^
The layout in the picture is surely based on how they found the fossil ??

Enough Said 11/11/2009 2:59:23 PM
You found my grand-daddy or is it the evolutionist's daddy. I am not sure but I can surely fit the bone pieces into a picture of my Dog. This is a joke right? And they can determine from the stomach contents such as a while ago from two piles of bones in a storeroom that this thing ate grass? Stop smoking guys, your are missing it? Funny though? A good laugh

johan 11/11/2009 3:05:46 PM
enough said ... stomach contents ?? .... this is not csi ... they study (amongst others) the teeth ...

Jaydee 11/11/2009 3:13:57 PM
Fantastic stuff....Always good to discover more of earths history. Maybe now we can discover the genetic ballsup in JM confused stain.... Well done guys..Keep digging.

Interestedparty@Hein 11/11/2009 3:21:29 PM
Quote:" Even man has grown 25cm longer in the last 500 years with no other changes "

Question: What part are you measuring??

Paleo 11/11/2009 3:24:29 PM
What about the Ancosaurus? This fearsome beast vacuumed up vast resources, and destroyed all in its wake, while leaving its lesser brethren to starve. All this while clinging stubbornly, dinosaur-like, to outmoded practices of the Malemassic age.

Perdeby 11/11/2009 3:25:12 PM
I have to agree with Stunned. I can only shake my head and have a laugh at the general idiocy of mankind. It is of great concern to me that there are so MANY morons that claim they know something (or actually has an IQ reading). People (or idiots) stop making real stupid comments. Rather focus on something that is less complicated for you to understand and that doesn’t make your eyes cross over and your brain malfunction in the process. To the REAL scientists, EXCELLENT WORK. This does not happen very often. Another great discovery. Very exciting. Keep up the good work!!!

From goo-to-you-through-the-zoo 11/11/2009 3:29:42 PM
@ Stunned - you need to use the brains God gave you and apply a little critical thinking on what these scientists are deceiving you with with their theory's based on presuppositions - also based on untested, non-observable theories.

Please go to the following sites and read about real science based on truth.

www.creation.com and www.answersingenesis.com

I am fascinated about this find. It again displays the wonderful varied creation of God.

Oh and to The Easter Bunny - I am no troll - my nic is tongue-in-cheek to emphasise the absurdity of the evolution theory(ies)

Unmasked 11/11/2009 3:31:09 PM
Holy sh*t!!! I'm amazed at how many people here have no idea how scientists - palaentologists - come to the conclusions they do regarding the structure of the animals they find.. This is a field of study that has been around for well over 100 years, they know what they're doing and reconstructions based on partial finds have been done before and proven to be accurate with time.
Just 'cos you're too ignorant to believe in evolution, etc, don't spread your stupidity here.

Barbara 11/11/2009 3:31:58 PM
Awesome stuff! And for those ignorant people out there....all this is based on studies done by people who have more than two brain cells and who have spent years studying...not making useless comments about stuff they know nothing about! Get a life guys....do some decent research and you will see these guys know what they are talking about based on facts....not supposition!

Tinus 11/11/2009 3:40:37 PM
Living fossils are swarming all over South Africa. Many can be found in front of their computers typing rubbish…

JohnnyBravo 11/11/2009 3:50:01 PM
WHOA!!! it is quiet amazing to think that dinosaurs used to roam this very land that we call SA, great find guys. a dinosaur most probably took a dumb right where some of u guys live, explains the k@k comments from u

Saltwater Geologist 11/11/2009 3:59:06 PM
For the sceptics out there (Intelligent Designists, Creationists or Illiterates), we know from radio-isotopic dating that the Elliot Formation (found stratigraphically below the Clarens Formation, which itself lies below the Karoo Volcanics) is in the region of 230 – 200Ma. The article relating to the actual Aardonyx findings explicitly states that 85% of two complete juvenile skeletons were found. The article on News24 only shows a cranial profile, whereas the actual text goes into detail on the morphological features of the complete jawbones from profile and plan views. Their morphological features are consistent with proto-sauropods (not quite, but almost sauropods). This find, although not ground-breaking, is significant in understanding the mechanisms by which species evolve on our planet. This is science; it is supportive, compelling and conclusive. If you have any doubts as to the authenticity of any of the claims made in the above article, then go find the paper: “A new transitional sauropodomorph dinosaur from the Early Jurassic of South Africa and the evolution of sauropod feeding and quadrupedalism” in Proceedings of the Royal Society. But please remember, any lack of understanding on the behalf of the reader does not negate the validity of the research...

Gerry 11/11/2009 4:16:47 PM
Hoax ,just a piece of art for me .

Jill Prins 11/11/2009 4:26:31 PM
If you believe in Evolution - then you haven't really looked into it.

arthur harding 11/11/2009 4:39:20 PM
sorry for the creationist but it actually makes sense

Enough Said 11/11/2009 4:47:35 PM
@johan Agree but go read the rubbish that was published about another pile of bones found a while ago? Like a said, probably I am either not believing any rubbish that scientist dish up or I must not be reading correct. So funny that they actually draw the animal and then fit the piece as they see fit, how was this determined. Either you are smoking something or you have a lot of faith in this you have to believe lived long ago. But it is a joke that you actually believe that a drawing is scientific proof and also that you were not there when they took it from a dead sheep that it is scientific proof. And then people with religious views are space cadets? So funny

Elle 11/11/2009 4:48:30 PM
Thanks Stunned - I coudn't have said it better!

Ouklip 11/11/2009 6:44:20 PM
When I saw the headline, "New dinosaur discovered in SA" I thought not fair. We have the SACP and AWB can we deal with another.
I reckon the chances that the scientists are correct are infinitely more possible than any of Paul’s dogma in the new testament.

nic@pieter 11/11/2009 8:27:08 PM
Well done guys for finding these bones. It is always exciting epecially when a new species is discovered. However Pieter it does not probe evolution. It simply proves that God created more kinds than what we could even imagine and that many species have died out. Similarities do not prove evolution and while not an expert, I believe it is a major jump Pieter to call this a link. Amazing that you can move from a single celled amoeba to a creature this size. I believe he was made, multiplied after their kind, adapted to their environment because they had the necessary information in their DNA to do that, and they seized to exist.

Something Foul 11/11/2009 9:55:22 PM
"We think it was a biped, a slow moving heavy bodied creature with a huge barrel chest and a small head to strip foliage," Yates said. Mmmm, sounds like speculation to me. Interesting teeth for a dino supposedly eating vegetaion. Compared to modern day strippers of vegetation, the teeth look almost carniverous!?? Not many bones were found, two individuals were used to make up the data of what it is thought to look like. Much speculation is inolved in such recontructions, and it is admitted by paleontologists themselves, thus the word "we think". Wonder what vegetation they really ate for those teeth??

LuftFan 11/11/2009 10:29:22 PM
I agree with Stunned.

If you do not know anything about science, keep your mouth shut. We gave you cellphones and computers. Go play with these toys while we get on with proper business.

Shame.

SB 11/12/2009 1:19:23 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man

t-plus 11/12/2009 3:25:00 AM
Knowledge is power yet stagnation is anathema. People must stop running their mouths without relevant information and further mislead this forum. The people who are dealing with this discovery are specialists in this regard that is why they are professors by qualification not self proclamation. So honorable ladies and gentleman, this is not a general topic. How about all of those who are clueless like me, we shut up and give the platform to those who can shed the lights with facts .Let the academics and scientists play their role in educating us. Let them debate the issue, then based on that debate we can choose who makes a lot of sense. That is where we will come in which is conclusion.

Scientist 11/12/2009 4:08:14 AM
As a biological scientist who knows, understands and believes in evolution, I have only one thing to say to those who do not: leave science to the scientists. If you do not understand it (ie evolution) then don't try and argue it with people who actually know what we are talking about. It is a waste of our time, time that we could be using to find even MORE proof of it than we already have.

T REX was funny 11/12/2009 5:03:45 AM
Its brilliant if the first quote is the best. Excellent remark.

Arby 11/12/2009 7:26:45 AM
Why are there so many IDIOTS commenting on this article??!

Big R 11/12/2009 7:38:55 AM
Amazing to see that IF this is a dino, then my goodness gratious me! God made some wonderful creatures LESS than 8000 years ago. Sweet bananas!! Now i'm in for it ;-)

bev18 11/12/2009 7:49:49 AM
Oh I believe they foudn this creature, its the date they seem to have mixed up. There is this most amazing fossil place in the Karoo.........'JP has possibly one of the largest fossil collections anywhere. The Profs from Wits all go there to learn from him. Dinosaurs are the last of the 'strange' creatures, before man came along. JP's collection predates all of that. err..dinosaurs, according the the real experts, and based on the evidence found there, only go back 25 million years.

Rockman 11/12/2009 8:03:02 AM
It is fantastic to see new dinosaur bones being found in South-Africa, regardless what the sceptics and uninformed twits think. Making comments on Archeological finds without reading books about it is like commenting on different religions without reading their scriptures or bibles.

tash 11/12/2009 8:09:19 AM
oh come on, im so sick of everything being linked to religion! This is about an amazing new discovery why the hell does religion or evolution for that matter have come into play?! It is what it is all you bigots give it a rest already, theres enough religious crap on here already.

Maryna 11/12/2009 8:22:46 AM
The "daft" comments made my day, at least I started a gloomy day with laughter, thanks guys!!!!
However, the article is interesting, keep digging and I hope you find more of the missing peaces.

Niel 11/12/2009 8:50:14 AM
Luckily this one was vegetarian hey, so it didn't eat the humans it lived alongside with hey. Jislaaikit hey.

Geologist 11/12/2009 9:08:18 AM
For pics on the dinosaur find go to http://gallery.iol.za.org/v/iolnews/Dinosaur+fossils+discovered+in+Senekal+11_11_2009/. For the idiots that don't understand science, that is why you flunked it at school! Carbon dating is limited to a few hundreds of thousand of years, they use radiometric dating (U-Pb). In fact the age dating is so accurate it confirms teh use of biostratigraphic dating by the fossil method. Shame, some people are born unintelligent....

Allan 11/12/2009 9:13:00 AM
Near Bethlehem? Do you know why Jesus was born in Bethlehem ,Jerusalem rather than Bethlehem in the Free State? In the Free State you won't find one wise man, never mind a virgin!!

Pieter 11/12/2009 9:15:36 AM
@Graham,Ratattack and others who do not understand the science behind reconstruction of bones and evolution tell me which are more feasable the scientific study or......that God who is suppose to create the big bang and thus controls everything and have foresight temporaly lost control of gravity and allowed a meteor to distroy his creation of Dinosaurs, even before the time of Noah, so could he not foresee that and humans and angels even could not be blamed huh...???

Raymond Osbourne 11/12/2009 9:37:22 AM
@Ratattack. Fair enough, but Behemoth and Leviathan weren't what you think they were. Leviathan was the monster of the sea, and in Modern Hebrew, it means simply "whale."

Behemoth, on the other hand, was the monster of the earth. Many have interpreted Behemoth as a mythical animal, but the most common suggestion is the hippopotamus. Some believe it to be similar to a buffalo.

Interestingly enough, there is actually a third creature, Ziz, the monster of the sky. Behemoth, Leviathan and Ziz were traditionally a favorite decoration motif for rabbis living in Russia.

Brad 11/12/2009 9:46:42 AM
Wow, reading comments like this really confirms my convictions of faith. If I have to be as severely mentally retarded as some of the above to believe in god then I think I'd rather take my chances with going to hell. Do any of you even understand what a fossil is? Believe me it doesn't look or feel anything like the chop you chew on at the kerk braai...

jebus 11/12/2009 9:46:46 AM
It's amazing how idiots can dismiss something they know nothing about and yet believe in a fairy tale about a super being somewhere in the sky. Please read, comprehend and then comment. @ ItPro> stick to IT and stop embarassing yourself.

Pieter 11/12/2009 10:02:19 AM
Evolution is a theory derived from scientific evidence right. Every honest scientist will tell you that they take the evidence and postulate the best theory they can to support it. Truth is no one can say for certain how old the earth is or even they know for a fact that Dinosaurs evolved. For everyone out there who beliefs or do not believe in evolution. Evaluate the reasoning both for and against before you decide. Be open minded and do not believe because someone said so. At some time everyone believed the earth was flat! :-)

girly 11/12/2009 10:28:40 AM
these people studied and worked hard to make a discovery like this, its great enought the sketch is there and 60% of the bones have been found.
now if that was some idiot digging the same bones up, he wouldnt know what he was looking at.
i take my hat off to these people,
they live for soemthing like this,
and we no different to judge.

i hope they find the other parts of the creature

Pieter 11/12/2009 11:23:40 AM
@Graham: If you compare living herbivores teeth with ancient teath from skulls and see it is similar, it is LOGIC that they ate similar food and this is good science. When you BELIEVE that God created the universe and everything, even the laws of nature, and that God could see into the future, and that he created the Dinosaurs, but then allowed them to be destroyed by a meteorite because he presumably lost control over gravity, it is not logic but wishfull thinking/believing.

100 milliongazilliontrillionbillion years 11/12/2009 1:21:20 PM
Just go check out how these guys change their tune when they decide what is what and how old it is. They have no idea, just like us, but they do expect us to believe them. Not in a million years.... or is that 100,000 million years...... eish.

Rose 11/12/2009 1:23:59 PM
cross between JM and a telly tubby

You miss something 11/12/2009 1:51:27 PM
@ Pieter - you just don't see the bigger picture. God do as he wishes - His will, not yours - so IF and I say IF a meteorite struck earth do kill all dinos, it was His plan and His will and NO, you are not big enough, clever enough or important enough to understand that or why it happened. That is up to God - don't be so egotistic and arogant. You guys think you are clever, its NOTHING compared to God. Proof your THEORIES to be true and PLEASE proof the Bible wrong if you can..... many people tried before you and failed with red faces. Now, go off and dig out another dino(created by God). You should thank Him for having a job it seems.

Jewels 11/12/2009 2:46:03 PM
It’s almost amazing how “un-evolved” most of the readers are; it thinks chimps have a better understanding about the world around them! You would not even know the truth of scientific fact if it hit you in the heads at the speed of light (yes @You miss something, they can actually measure that... 299792.58 km/s if you did not know)
If you want to obtain enlightenment (no pun intended) stop reading religious text and start reading about real people like Newton, Einstein, Hawking etc.

lucca 11/12/2009 2:47:29 PM
If you people would take a science class, geology 101 for example, perhaps you would LEARN that there are more methods to dating than just C14. Potassium-Argon, Thorium, Uranium, just to name a few.

nofightinginthewarroom 11/12/2009 3:26:15 PM
its great to see how a discovery of this nature can spark off such lively debate. It is however unfortunate to see the extent to which the comments posted here are based on personal epistomology and not empirical evidence. To those out there who's interest in evolution/creation extends beyond pseudoscience and personal belief, read Professor Michael Ruse's book, The evolution-creation struggle.

Alex 11/12/2009 3:31:01 PM
scientists apply proven methods to come to a conclusion, nobody is perfect and they make estimations. on the other hand, people who don't believe in evolution try to prove it wrong instead of bringing evidence that god is real based on facts and not blind believe propagated and interpreted by other mortal humans. element of ignorance is all over, but scientist do not try to prove that god does not exist, they just didn't find anything to prove otherwise. which side is more ignorant? i believe, usually, it is blind followers

TSki 11/12/2009 3:44:48 PM
Its disturbing to read that so many people would rather believe in fairy tales than science.

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