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What's the point of gold?

2008-03-18 08:10

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Louis Pretorius, News24 User

Gold - what's the point?

Way back in Standard 5 - for the youngsters, that is what you now call Grade 7 - my English teacher made us all listen to news daily and report something the next day. I had to bring the gold price.

I learned through this that the gold price was important as it brought money to the country and made us rich. Later on, I learnt that platinum was even more valuable and even though we did not sell as much of it as gold, it also helped to make us rich.

Somewhere along the route of growing up I lost something (feels like naivety) about how gold and platinum influence the economy. And now, at the age of 40, I am convinced that it does nothing. In spite of the fact that it makes headlines in the news, and the fact that it has been very high for quite some time, I do not feel the difference in my pocket. Nor does any other proverbial man in the street.

The petrol price is sky high (and climbing), food prices are out of control and the consumer of have-to-have products is worse-off literally daily. Every time you go to the shop something else costs more than it did the previous time.

Cutting down

To add insult, the consumers of household electricity are being told to reduce their usage so the mines can run on full quota. Where I agree we all need to use electricity a lot more sparingly, I can not see that the mines can be the reason for it, because what the mines do has not affected my pocket in any sense.

Am I missing something? Is the gold price actually having an effect on the economy, but said effect is just not strong enough to be felt? Is our situation so bad that gold does actually not make a difference any more? In which case my initial question is valid - what's the point of watching it and headlining it when it reaches record price? No one seems to benefit from it?!

Further to this, an economist recently wrote an article in which it was said the rand being weak against the dollar is not necessarily bad. It is good for the mines and exports. It is? Mr Joe Average only got an 8% increase this year and the prices of all the food he needs to buy for his family, increased by more than that and this is a continuous process. He pays a lot more for the petrol he puts in his car to get to work, and so we can continue. How does he benefit from it?

I guess I'm economically challenged, because I can not fathom this one out. Is there someone out there willing to give me a crash course on "Gold And Oil For Dummies"?

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Survival 3/18/2008 8:23:29 AM
Basically, imagine the Sudan or Somalia. Does that enlighten you. Count your blessings and stop being selfish.

Dawid 3/18/2008 8:25:34 AM
Gold makes out 33% of all SA exports, so yes, it makes a huge difference to the economy.

Wynand 3/18/2008 8:29:59 AM
South Africa must be the "capital" of RIPP OFF in this world. Over the last couple of weeks I have repeatedly heard that the Rand is the worst performing curency in the world. How is this possible???? HOW???????? We are not some "hellhole" country!! I mean...........WTF??

Son of mam 3/18/2008 8:30:07 AM
Today Patrice Motsepe is a dollar billionaire and the rest of us are left in the cold. This is supposed to be a natural resource that benefits everyone but instead it belongs to some few individuals like Oppenheimers and the rest.

Financial Amateur 3/18/2008 8:41:03 AM
I'm not an expert in finances, but know a bit. Firtsly gold is one of RSA's biggest exports and job creators, thus the better the price the better the profits, means more jobs which leads to better buying power, which leads to a stronger economy and better life for all. The reason that the oil price is important is not transport of people but goods, since almost all RSA's transport is by truck the higher the oil price the more it costs to transport everything leading to increased costs.

Francois Roux 3/18/2008 8:47:19 AM
And if I may add, the companies never take the punch when the squeze get's turned up, they simply increase their premiums, selling prices and/or service fees. Then when time for increases comes, they tell you that the economy has been sufering, the rand is too weak, the rand is to strong, that inflation was to high and sorts of BS stories, for the simple purpose of giving you an increase of less than the inflation rate...

Financial Amateur 3/18/2008 8:48:33 AM
From my last posting: The reason why we don't see an improvement due to the higher the gold price is the much higher oil price, the inefficeincy of government and major company's ripping off the public. You see these company claiming low profits but each year their financial statements says the opposite. They continue with their immoral business why government do nothing and due to legislation, company's from outside RSA can't enter the market providing some competition and driving prices down.

Online 3/18/2008 8:51:00 AM
All is there!

Kris 3/18/2008 8:52:44 AM
I would hate to imagine the poverty this country would be in without Gold, Platinum and Diamond exports. I do agree that that the wealth should be spread a bit wider and the exports should have a bigger bearing on our foreign currency. Having these exports and worldwide corporations like Sasol and SAB miller make a big difference to your pocket without you even knowing it.

MP3 3/18/2008 8:53:33 AM
I must agree Louis, i've never really seen the benefit of all this mambo jumbo filter down to the man of the street... maybe this is only good news for the Elite!

Benzo 3/18/2008 8:56:27 AM
..of globalisation for you ,my friend. And -as survival preaches- it is better than Sudan, Somalia, Congo, Iraq....... and someone else on this forum will probably tell you, that under apartheid they had it worse and that you are a racist. I do agree with you that daily news about the gold price is of little interest to the man in the street or the mines as most of them have hedged the sale of gold anyway.

aa 3/18/2008 9:00:14 AM
well mining is the second largest source of employment after the motor industry, so gold, plat and everything else we mine has a huge effect on this country. when prices are low, workers are laid off.. etc etc

Jonathan 3/18/2008 9:01:23 AM
There is a limited supply of gold. We, humans, cannot create more gold. There is a finite supply. A limited supply = high value. Also, you can't benefit from something you don't own. If you want to benefit from gold, buy some shares in a gold mine or even better, buy some Krugerrands.

LM 3/18/2008 9:01:47 AM
Its drives our whole economy and basically the country. Why don?t you do some research yourself its all over the net easy to understand and free. Don?t see we should spoon feed you. Its really not hard to understand.

saliem 3/18/2008 9:02:31 AM
No man Louis! Sies, how can anyone be so doff? Or R you just having some fun here? In case it is not the latter, 2 fundimental lessons for you. Firstly, the value of our gold reserves serves as securuty for much of the paper (money) printed by the reserve bank - a strong golde and platinum price also helps our balance of payments (diff between imports/exports). Finally, our mines need to be 100% operational, otherwise unemployment escilates - DOH!

Godfrey 3/18/2008 9:04:29 AM
Unfortunately the people who benefit from gold are the CEO'S who get huge bonuses and the shareholders of these mines.What's even sad is that gold is a natural resource,it doesn't belong to anyone else.God put it in the belly of earth for the benefit of all of us.It's the same with rich people who buy land next to the beach and claim the beach is their private property,while the beach should be open to everyone because no one can claim to own the beach as it is a natural resource,same with oil.

Onthefence 3/18/2008 9:05:24 AM
stop wallowing in your globalised idealogical fantasies that we should be "so lucky" we are are not in Sudan or Somalia. Should we just give up on the economy of this country and let it go to the dogs because "thankfully" and "blessedly" we aren't in a sh*thole (yet...) And it's not being selfish - it's striving every day to make a better future for your family and asking the questions that need to be asked - a quality we need if we are to keep this country from "Somalisation"

Mini Trevor 3/18/2008 9:05:27 AM
If the gold price was weak, our taxes would also have gone up. High gold price equals lower taxes for us. The more unstable the oil price gets, the more people invest in gold. So it's a bit of a see-saw effect. Some things go up, other things go down. That's the way the world works...get used to it.

Sinudeity 3/18/2008 9:08:31 AM
Robbed SA of its Diamonds and Gold, early last century. So an elite few are doing the same to us. A countries resources should benefit the people. Not Nikki Oppenheimer or Patrice Motsepe.

Iceberg 3/18/2008 9:09:04 AM
Gold made SA what it is today - the largest economy in Africa. Thousands are still employed in the gold mines - so the POG is hugely important. But the new kid on the block is platinum - SA has the largest reserves in the world. With emission control becoming an ever bigger issue, the platinum price (already double that of gold) is going to rise even further - creating jobs and wealth for SA. Bought some Kruger rands a few years back at R3000 apiece - they are now R8500 - it CAN work for YOU

John Camp 3/18/2008 9:12:57 AM
The guy was asking a legitimate question, either add constructive input or find another topic.

balbyter 3/18/2008 9:14:34 AM
"..thus the better the price the better the profits, means more jobs.." That is where you are wrong. Mining Companies do not employ more workers due to increased gold price. Companies depend on the price of gold for huge profits, not smart cost saving and labour intensive practices..when the price of the rand strengthen or gold price falls, the mines lay off workers.

Stephen Gold 3/18/2008 9:24:21 AM
The bottom line is, while this country is being kept afloat my our mineral resources, the controlling bodies are skimming all the cream off the top and putting it in their pockets. Case in point, Sasol. They make petrol & diesel from local reserves and the government makes them sell it at international prices. How is that helping us? If they had the people's best interests at heart, they would have made a plan a long time ago, but for them, it's all about the money & screw the people. Greedy!

Kris 3/18/2008 9:41:41 AM
Will all due respect Stephen.... Sasol would NEVER be able to cope with demand if there was any chance of them lowering their fuel price. Granted, they do make a killing!

Juan 3/18/2008 9:43:39 AM
SA's screwed. But without gold we would have been screwed quicker!

Benzo 3/18/2008 9:45:57 AM
the mines usually hedge a percentage of their production to cover for price fluctuations. Same as Sasol did with oil, same as in agriculture. Sasol reportedly "lost" 30 billion Rand in this process. Mining companies have -to my knowledge- never published their hedging losses. The real winners are the financial institutions who "forward cover" the production. These are probably not based in SA.

Pieter Joubert 3/18/2008 9:47:16 AM
Yes the goodness of our country is not reaching average Joe. Never has & probably never will. The whole purpose of the Nat Party was to apply affirmative action & economic empowerment to Afrikaners oppressed by the English. Few managed to get hold of the gold in 45 years. However we're also complaining blindly & greedily. For average white Joe the 'daily expenses' blindly include luxury & greed. For example Cellphones, unthought of in 1990, by far exceed landline cost & luxury. Cars! DSTV! Etc.

jk 3/18/2008 9:52:03 AM
Quote: "And now, at the age of 40, I am convinced that it does nothing. In spite of the fact that it makes headlines in the news, and the fact that it has been very high for quite some time, I do not feel the difference in my pocket. Nor does any other proverbial man in the street." Why not buy some and then perhaps you will know its value. Better yet, you should have bought last summer (2007) then you would be singing a different tune. It is a good risk management tool in times of turmoil.

Chris 3/18/2008 9:52:07 AM
Read the 24 protocols of the learned elders of zion, The answer is there.

Z 3/18/2008 9:59:59 AM
...any economist out there who can explain this...Surely there must be an economic explanation..is it really greedy?

Big R 3/18/2008 10:05:49 AM
At the end of the day boys and girls WE the general public CANNOT see where all this so called profits are going as there are still potholes, our electricity crises still exists and our government "officials" still drive fancy mercs blasting through traffic with blue lights!! So where does the average Joe come in? NOWHERE! Not part of the equation, sorry!

Big R 3/18/2008 10:07:24 AM
Someone, please correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't SASOL produce a litre of petrol for something like 74c?

Pieter Joubert 3/18/2008 10:17:01 AM
You've hit the jackpot there. There are a lot of insiduous secrets in our soceity. What happens to the SASOL price difference is one of them. Why Eskom is using wet coal (and regularly blowing up a generator as a result) is another. What national government is doing with R300 billion per year minus the relatively small amount going to the real service providers (municipalities) is a third. Can you see national government's R300 billion contribution in your life?!?

Calvin Mkhize 3/18/2008 10:19:38 AM
The export of gold has a multiplier effect on our economy. Foreign income generated through the sale of gold creates sustainable employment opportunities in the mining sector. The price of crude oil is beyond our control as is controlled by a cartel. This lead to increase in petrol prices which is passed to the customers on goods sold. I am prepared to give you free lectures on basic Economics.

Stormin 3/18/2008 10:20:00 AM
Louis, gold is very important to South Africa mainly because it creates jobs and secondly because it brings in foreign revenue. A country must export goods if it wants to import goods in order to keep a balance in it's payment flows. Only a banana republic can trade it,s own goods with itself and it will never be able to grow. South Africa is very rich in minerals which are in high demand all over the world. The more we can produce and export, the stronger our economy will become.

rocker 3/18/2008 10:25:31 AM
I'm in mining. In 1998-1999 it was a massive struggle just to stay employed. RSA was saved somewhat by a resurgent platinum price, but elsewhere (Canada, Australia, USA) mining people really suffered (1500 people lost their mining-related jobs in Western Australia alone). Since 1999 I have seen my salary go up several 100s %. Same for a lot of others in mining. So for us the metal prices are very real, and a lot of people in RSA depend on that. It has literally saved RSA from a Zim dive.

LM 3/18/2008 10:27:33 AM
The question seems a bit strange. If you own a shop and you can get higher prices, it is obviously better for your budget. The more money made, the more tax is paid, the more economic growth is seen and the more jobs are created. You won't feel the effects in your own pocket immediately but in the long run you can be very thankful about this.

Jack 3/18/2008 10:35:46 AM
There is a piece of gold in Carletonville that God put there for you, go and get it because natural resources belong to us all, it's just 3km below the ground in a form that you won't be able to distinguish from a rock in your garden, but it's yours.

psycobabble 3/18/2008 10:36:04 AM
You've hit the nail on the head.Our spending priorities are all cocked up.If one had to look at what the average joe spent his/her diposable income on in a period of 10 to 15 yrs then one would see your point.If you'd save more you'd be able to buy gold.But cars,cell,hair extentions fancy clothes and houses can't be eaten.This economic slowdown is great because it will force peeps to become more conservative in spending and save more.Viva credit crunch

Alicia 3/18/2008 10:36:16 AM
At school, many moons ago, I was taught that for every...then Pound...there were so and so many ounces of gold kept at the Reserve Bank. With the price of gold skyrocketing, I cannot understand why the Rand is then not worth much, much more. I know China now produces more gold than we do and their economy is not that bad. We are just sinking deeper and deeper into a hole, which has, at this stage, no bottom. But the 2010 saga will go on, regardless.

Sandra 3/18/2008 10:36:39 AM
I agree with Survival. it is not all about you, or the plebs who don't make the grade to be billionaires, you are not good enough get over it. The floods of sour grape wannabee losers are petty and pathetic. Get a brain transplant, maybe you will be able to improve yourselves.Or move to Northern Africa and experienceAnd don't think I am rich, I struggle to pay my bond, but I am grateful that there are people out there with enough savy to ensure that people like me can get a job and make a living.

Zee 3/18/2008 10:37:10 AM
I'm with you on this Louis and I think so are millions of average Joe Soaps out there. You are merely stating a fact and I dont think that you are as clueless as you say. Truth is, none of us really rush off for a market update every morning unless you are employed in that field.

Alexander 3/18/2008 10:43:23 AM
Why does everyone moan all the time. Move to a communist country and share the grovelling with everyone but the rulers like everyone else there.Jealous, envious and spiteful, good for nothings who contribute nothing to the good of society and have your lips on the ground with bile because there are people out there who, thank God, actually do something with their lives and ensure that we are not all hens squabbling over the one few grains avaiable to eat like it used to be for centuries. Dimwits

Malcolm X 3/18/2008 10:45:27 AM
The two biggest liers are the economists & the weatherman. Unfortunately South Africas gold & platinum exports & the profits derived from them benefit mainly the elite few. If you looked at the average salary of a mine manager & compared it to the staff & workers salaries,there are huge differences. The roll on effect of supporting businesses, works the same way. The man in the street basically doesn't benefit.

C 3/18/2008 10:49:45 AM
I think what everyone is also missing, is that South Africa is producing the least gold in over 20 years. This obviously has an effect on the price to increase but not enough to see a postive outcome.

C 3/18/2008 10:50:56 AM
To the author: How the hell can you write columns when you know absolutely nothing about a subject. You are a hack, do some research before writing things that you have sucked out of your thumb. South Africa is (or rather, was) the largest gold producer in the world, where do you think the wealth in this country comes from? Our superior business practices?

CTS 3/18/2008 10:51:29 AM
Without the high mineral prices the government would have needed extra cash to buy oil at its currect price. Which they would have obtained by raising taxes and interest rates. So you do score indirectly (a hellofalot!) by the higher commodity prices!

DW 3/18/2008 10:53:02 AM
I may be wrong but I think the gold standard fell away a long time ago ie the old system that for every rand printed there was the equivalent of gold in the vaults somewhere. @ Godfrey - the gold, diamonds and platinum were there for aeons. The previous owners of the land just didnt have the brainpower to get it out. Now that someone came along and used the brainpower to get at it, it is seen as unfair and should go to those who were too stupid or lazy to take what was there in the first place?!

Sarah 3/18/2008 10:55:34 AM
Please could an economist at News24 write a reply to this letter and put it on the front page of the website so people like us can understand what is happening.

Big R 3/18/2008 10:58:12 AM
Dude, drink a chill pill. This is a discussion forum,...now discuss!

DW 3/18/2008 11:05:51 AM
These resources are sold to overseas companies and bring much needed currency to our country so that we can buy imported goods-our country does not supply all our needs.Without gold/platinum etc we would be a VERY poor country,unable to buy agricultural/industrial equipment manufactured overseas and our whole economy would grind to a halt.The rand is weakening due to many factors,including perceived political instability(for all you Zuma supporters)so hold them responsible for your woes not mines

Suzz 3/18/2008 11:15:24 AM
I feel the same as you. I can also not see what the whoo haa is about the gold price and the mines. And just to confirm your point about the increase... I got a mere 5% increase this year, at it was the "maximum that was given" in our company. Now tell me what am I suppose to do with a couple hundred rand difference on my salary each month, while the diesel price already costs me that ekstra per tank....? Not to mention the food prices. Rich are getting richer, poor are getting poorer.

Chris-T 3/18/2008 11:20:55 AM
SA suffers from a strong pyramid leadership structure that concentrates power in the national political leadership and big business. The day we learn to harness the power of citizens and make big business and State accountable will be the day we win our true economic freedom. We moan about commodities going up but the demand keeps escalating! The business can't keep prices up if we don't buy their products. Economics 101!

Stephen Gold 3/18/2008 11:38:32 AM
You pompous *&%$@! Go and take your numbskull comments to another forum, better still, comment on the ANC website forums where all your tjommies are! The price of crude oil is controlled by an overseas cartel, but is our local mineral supply also controlled by them? I think not! I agree Kris, SASOL may not be able to keep up with demand if they sell cheaper fuel, but they could try. Perhaps they could increase their infrastructure to increase supply. They would hold the monopoly & make a killing!

Zee 3/18/2008 11:38:59 AM
Have you ever heard of Mapungubwe, you stupid moron! Gold mining was happening in SA long before your thieving great-grandfather came to these shores. He chose to omit this fact when he taught you history, so you can feel superior, idiot!

Calvin Mkhize 3/18/2008 11:44:13 AM
One thing your article does not address is who are the rightfull owners of this gold and platinum.

Tshilongo 3/18/2008 11:59:02 AM
The super profits that Sasol make should be redirected to Affirmative Action, Employment Equity, Child support grants, Basic income grants and other similar innitiatives thru windfall taxes.

Ani 3/18/2008 12:00:33 PM
I mailed News24 about SASOL, but seemed its not that important. SASOL are NOT allowed to sell their petrol at a lower price, not even to their workers. But they DO get fined by the Government for making to much profit out of the petrol. Petrol isn't SASOL'S main product either! It doesn't even cost them R2 to make a barrel of petrol...so it works perfectly for government, cause they reap of SASOL'S hard work...easy money isn't it?

John Camp 3/18/2008 12:39:33 PM
That's it guys, live up to it. Everything must be just given to you. Work for nothing, like many others. Get off your sorry @rses and earn a decent, honest living like most other people on the forum. Pathetic!

p 3/18/2008 12:47:08 PM
Quite amazing to see that even though you are 40, your grasp of economic principles has not really advanced from Std 5. Or grade 7, as the youngsters call it

skarr.. 3/18/2008 1:00:20 PM
That B4 the "Great European" murdering thiefing rapist, came to the shores of Africa, that Us "Stupid Lazy ones" never mined gold, then carry on fooling yourself.

Ernst 3/18/2008 1:35:10 PM
It's amazing how easy it is to identify the weak from the strong by reading all the above comments. Current economic conditions are a result of changes in the world markets. Supply and demand of commodities such as oil, political stability, even climate changes affect economic conditions. Change is a fact of life! Those who adapt prosper and those who don't suffer, regardless of race. The rich get richer and the poor poorer. The strong shall survive and the weak shall perish. Get the point?

Godfrey 3/18/2008 1:42:11 PM
I would go and get it, but then someone will say they own the land!

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