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A victory for quiet diplomacy?

2008-07-22 11:00

Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe, left and Morgan Tsvangirai, leader of the main opposition party, are seen at the signing of a memorandum of understanding between the two parties in Harare. (Tsvangirayi Mukwazhi, AP)

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New York - United Nations boss Ban Ki-moon on Monday hailed the joint pledge by Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe and opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai to launch full-fledged talks to end their election dispute.

"The secretary-general welcomes the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding between the parties in Zimbabwe, which provides a framework for formal talks to end the political crisis in the country," Ban's press office said in a statement.

The UN chief also praised President Thabo Mbeki and his mediation team for their efforts "in facilitating the signing of this agreement".

Does this agreement mark a victory for Mbeki's "quiet diplomacy"? Do you think this is an empty victory? Let us know in the comments block below.

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Juan 7/22/2008 10:49:51 AM
Mbeki's efforts have failed. This is now too little to late. NO amount of talking would ever bring back those murdered by mugabes regime. If Africa was interested in REAL democracy, they would have taken mugabe out AGES ago. How sickening was it to see mbeki walking hand in hand with a mass murderer! sick!

Hobbs 7/22/2008 10:50:50 AM
How many lives have been lost in the process?? I think that might be an answer....

Marcd 7/22/2008 10:53:44 AM
It may be a tad more pertinent to ask the odd Zimbabwean that question. No prizes for guessing the answer.

Calvin Mkhize 7/22/2008 10:53:46 AM
We should salute Mbeki for his mediation role and give credit where it is due. Mbeki has proven to be a great mediator in conflicts taken place all over Africa. As South Africans we should be blessed to have such a leader.

Pieter Joubert 7/22/2008 10:56:16 AM
NOTHING has been achieved. Both leaders have repeatedly acknowledged that they understand that negotiations must commence, and that's all this is - a show that regurgitates that knowledge for the media. However, this is not the commencement - negotiations over getting democracy to work in Zim, have been on-going for more than a decade subsequent to previous botched elections. Negotiations have not lead anywhere at all, things just got worse. More smoke and mirrors from Mr. Whatcrisis Mbeki.

Sarah 7/22/2008 10:58:02 AM
I am far to jaded about the Zim situation & will only believe that "Quiet Diplomacy" has actuly won, when I see a coalition / interim govenment in place in that country. Robert Mugabe is going to cut a fat deal, where he can't be prosecuted, & the people are still starving. Will be a while till food & help makes its way to the rural areas. Rumors of mass graves at certain villages too. What a nightmare...

mallencolly 7/22/2008 10:58:16 AM
You have to be joking. The fact that there are talks is due to the FAILURE of quiet diplomacy. There would be no need for talks if Mugabe had followed the will of the people. All quiet diplomacy has done has allowed him and his parasitc wife and generals to stuff things up even more. This would be like Chamberlain saying "I told you so" after WWII.

meltonmark 7/22/2008 11:00:42 AM
10's of 000's dead. 1m% inflation. A destroyed economy. A ruined nation. I would have thought this was proof of the failure of quiet diplomacy. Now Mugabe is facing his own death, and there is nothing remaining of Rhodesia to rescue anymore, now we hear talk of talks. Yeah yeah! Whatever,

shane 7/22/2008 11:01:05 AM
No only after the UN wanted to impose more serious sanctions(Loud diplomacy) and got vetoed by their communist friends did something get done.This is only a smokescreen by BOB to buy more time and nothing serious will come from the "talks"

Z 7/22/2008 11:03:27 AM
Respect to you my President!

Kolobe 7/22/2008 11:05:04 AM
Is it not funny that the loud diplomacy has finally went silent, then we of the quiet diplomacy are silent and just waiting for victory, I hate to say the colonial imperialists are now scared with tails between their legs, the African patriots are celebrating and the people of Zimbabwe are about to experience peace and a transitional government, all thanks to the quite diplomacy, we hate to say but we told you so.

Jimbo 7/22/2008 11:05:28 AM
What are the chances of Bob listening to anything Morgan has to say? I don't believe these talks will bring about any change in Zim...all Bob is doing is trying to do is avoid losing power, and nothing that Morgan does or says will have any bearing on any of Mugabes descisions. This is all a big show...

general 7/22/2008 11:07:16 AM
I think this came a little too late for poor Zim people. I would have thought that the MDC leader would go ahead with his defiance stance to oust Mugabe not the power sharing deal. Mugabe's devil-driven tactics will be at play soon undermining Mbeki's power brokering deal.

Karen 7/22/2008 11:09:00 AM
This is no victory for Mbeki's "quiet diplomacy". His "softly, softly" approach was purely to avoid upsetting Mugabe. It was not in the best interests of Zim or the people of Zim. They have suffered and died, the country has collapsed and been destroyed all while Mbeki was holding hands with Mugabe. If he had taken a stronger stance years ago, Zim would have been on the road to recovery by now instead of only just in the starting blocks. We have international pressure to thank not Mbeki.

Goose 7/22/2008 11:09:23 AM
The signing of the "agreement" is just that....a piece of paper. Quiet diplomacy had didley squat! to do with this. It was purely international pressure and UN pressure that forced Mad Bob's hand. A leopard cannot change it's spots.

Matrix 7/22/2008 11:09:46 AM
MorganT said that the talks are still conditional & Bob said that MorganT must accpet results before talks. I.E. They agree to talk & agree to disagree. Victory for ThaboM or quiet diplomacy? In terms of moderating still means nothing, if the conditions under which talks are held are no different to before, i.e. intimidation of MDC, by military, etc... Nothing has changed yet. Will still get worse & whatever results will be blamed on mediators as imperialist medalers in domestic afairs.

Sam 7/22/2008 11:10:05 AM
It remains to be seen. We will only know when Thabo and Morgan are out of power and decide to publish an autobiography.

Walese 7/22/2008 11:13:04 AM
That is where his talents lie, great leadership. I wonder what are the small and narrow minds saying now! That would include the likes of the great and intellegent - XOLELA MANGCU. You still have a lot to learn my boy. the UN must grab this great stateman as soon as he is relieved of his duties in SA - he deserves better. You have shown them Mr Mbeki how a real leader should behave. A real leader doesnt throw misguided missiles out of their mouths. LEADERS SPEAK AT THE RIGHT OPPORTUNITY.

Mukiwa 7/22/2008 11:13:05 AM
Quiet diplomacy did not cause the breakthrough. The economic disaster presided over by the Zim government has left them no option but to some to the table. All Africa News has an article on how the ZANU-PF heavies, including Mugabe, are all exteralising the little forex in thr counrty with the help of international banks, Old Mutual shares and a few other scams. Seems like the rats are fleeing their sinking ship.

He Who Knows 7/22/2008 11:14:53 AM
It's a matter of too little, too late! Zimbabwe is in ruins (pardon the pun) and it's all thanks to our lame duck president and his buddy-buddy relationship with Mur Garbage!!

Tuffy 7/22/2008 11:15:59 AM
Mbeki's mediation had nothing to do with it. Mugabe had been told by a few organisations what they require from him and its not as if he had much choice. I am however afraid that any recovery in Zim whilst Mugabe is part of the process will be claimed by him as credit due to him because he finally forced the MDC to the negotiation table - anything to make himself look the winner and not the baboon, tyrant and racist he is.

Kolobe 7/22/2008 11:16:16 AM
President Mbeki has an impeccable amount of experience in the African politics, he negotiated peace in ivory coast, Liberia, the DRC, the west and their puppets never negotiated instead they attacked other states, now when I support Russia and china people think I am pushing an agenda, the friends of the African states china and Russia?s decision have been justified.No one like Thabo Mbeki.

ofcorsa 7/22/2008 11:16:50 AM
Mbeki contributed nothing positive to this situation (and more likely prolonged the violence) and any attempt to make out that he helped is a load of bull. The only reason that Zim's parties are talking is that Zunu-pf, saw the writing on the wall, with a collapsing/ed economy, hyper-inflation and political pressure from around the world baring SA's government and China.

Malunga 7/22/2008 11:18:24 AM
It seems that the will of Zimbabwean people was not heard or considered when they voted in March elections.It is this so called quite diplomacy that brings solution without the will of the sufferring Zimbabweans which was negleted.I think this is for Mbeki and his team that they have accomplished their diplomacy but that doesnt have anything to do with suffering Zimbabweans because it wont change anything on Mugabe regime.

RK 7/22/2008 11:19:08 AM
I guess Mbeki's quiet diplomacy worked here, Mugabe is a time bomb and he need to be handled with care and i applaud Mbeki for his effort. Viva Mbeki!

Tom 7/22/2008 11:19:19 AM
Mugabe is playing for time. As long as there are talks he will be in power. How about a dead line?

Sizwe 7/22/2008 11:19:26 AM
Cosatu, Zuma, Vavi, YLs would never have achieved this goal with their violent and arrogant approach. It takes a real leader to get things done. SA has for the last 14 years been blessed with great presidents in Mandela and Mbeki. All their achievements will now go to waste should Zuma nad his camp start looting more of our country's resources. Actions speak louder than words of arrogance. Go join the UN Mr Mbeki and sort the world out. You will go down in history as a great leader like Mandela.

The Truth 7/22/2008 11:19:27 AM
and after too much blood has been shed from Mugabe's murdering of MDC supporters.Anyone who believes this very public signing of a "Memorandum of Understanding" and the fake handshakes from Mugabe to go with it,is naive to say the least.Thabo Mbeki has always fancied himself as a peacemaker and he is only doing this to try and boost his fast flagging public image before he leaves office (much as Bush is trying to do with his "roadmap for peace" in Palestine/Israel before he leaves).

terence 7/22/2008 11:20:04 AM
unfortunately thousands of people have died and many more have been displaced. Thabo mbeki has achieved nothing and what he did achieve was due to international pressure on him. We will have to wait and see what comes out of this power sharing deal. Morgan must settle for nothing less than head of state. Mbeki deserves no credit to this at all

Lebo 7/22/2008 11:20:37 AM
Although its still early to dish out accolades, this is the most positive news to come from our Zim.Any movement in the right direction is welcome.Its not going to be easy but we hope that a solution is reached and Zim begins to rebuild its self.

Wiseman 7/22/2008 11:21:10 AM
for all those who those innocents kiiled and injured. There's no knowing whether or not harsher action would have been better or forced Mugabe's hand even more, so let's look ahead. The world, especially Mbeki, needs to keep up the pressure so that there can soon be truly fair elections. I just don't believe that that will be possible without an AU/UN peacekeeping force in Zim.

jannie 7/22/2008 11:21:15 AM
...on this forum..that Thabo's quiet diplomacy will be hailed a success once Robert is ousted or talks succeed. Well well well. Let me predict another thing...the ANC will not rule until Jesus comes...

Sinudeity 7/22/2008 11:24:44 AM
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA, how many people were tortured, killed, paralysed and amputated in the while that it took for Mbeki's quiet diplomacy' to kick in?! And then had to watch the sickening picture yesterday on news24's frontpage, of mbeki and mugabe holding hands. *Spit*

NoNoNoNoNo 7/22/2008 11:26:40 AM
NO. Mbeki has dragged South Africa's name through the mud while Zimbabawe has burned. During his mediation, thousands have died, elections have been stolen and years have passed. I see a correlation between how Mbeki has handled Zimbabwe and how he has handled events in South Africa over the last couple years. All very badly.....

David 7/22/2008 11:26:53 AM
While we all should be happy that the leaders have started to talk this is a sign of weakness by Mugabe - he has realised that all is lost and the only way to find and restore any hope in his wasted country is to talk to the wests puppit Morgan. Mbeki has failed and has the blood of innocent people on his hands - he is just as bad as the apartheid muppits before him. Mbeki equals Mugabes gimp.

Micki 7/22/2008 11:27:50 AM
Quiet diplomacy whilst starvation, torture, rape and murder takes place - Mbeki is a joke and if anyone trusts him or Mugabe they need their heads read. Mbeki's quiet diplomacy has the blood of many Zimbabweans on his hands

Sike 7/22/2008 11:28:27 AM
I don't think this will have any effect on the crisis in Zimbabwe and lives of the people. Mugabe strictly stated yesterday that he doesn't want any help from Europe and America and that says a lot. People are still undernutrished and many more are still skipping the country. I don't foresee the ZANU-PF led violence stopping now that they have signed a piece of paper. This man is not going to let go. Not now, not ever.

Kolobe 7/22/2008 11:28:53 AM
what did the LOUD diplomacy do to ensure that people are tortured, killed, paralysed and amputated??NOTHING AS USUAL.

So 7/22/2008 11:30:54 AM
You have done your job well. People who criticise you must look at the dictionary and try to understand the meaning of a mediator

Alex 7/22/2008 11:31:10 AM
This is good news indeed, and the President must get some credit. The sad part that will remain forever unchanged is that eight years have passed,and numerous lives have been ruined in the meantime. Surely we should have been able to get to this point sooner? When this happens again in Africa, let's hope the lesson is not lost!

Andrew 7/22/2008 11:31:21 AM
The "breakthrough" only comes after the EU sanctions and strong opposition from the west. The quiet diplomacy was largely unnoticed, and the lack of decisive action from our esteemed leader has lead to the break down of human rights and the starvation of a once great nation.

Mlu 7/22/2008 11:31:28 AM
It is a victory in just 16 months of mediation. Others have been mediating Middle East for 40 years without an outcome.

Danie 7/22/2008 11:31:45 AM
Kolobe open your eyes ........ they are deciding how to bury the rotten carcass that was once a productive country. So much for Mbeki's efforts. Your empty words are ringing hollow in the ears of the Zimbabwe's dead, through quiet diplomacy. But then, no one is so blind as the one who will not open their eyes.

SAfrican 7/22/2008 11:31:56 AM
Credit to da Prez. Now lead the Zimbabweans to peace

Kolobe 7/22/2008 11:32:13 AM
Too much talk too little action= the west, too little talk much action=Mbeki.

AJ 7/22/2008 11:36:37 AM
Closing the gate after the horse has bolted. Doing the right thing years too late is doing the wrong thing. You cant simply pretend the failures preceeding this moment never happened.

Taki 7/22/2008 11:36:42 AM
you are an awesome leader. Congrats

Nada 7/22/2008 11:38:03 AM
Yes, this is indeed a victory for quiet diplomacy. Once again Mbeki has proven that he is a true African. He understands african issues in ways that the outside world cannot. I think we should salute him for bringing Zim to this milestone. To those who mention inflation and ppl dying in Zim - well that is exactly the reason why Mbeki was there to mediate. Do u understand what the word MEDIATE means? It doesn't mean taking over and bullying ppl around like the uk and america would have it

GeorgeA 7/22/2008 11:39:13 AM
The MoU doesn't mean to much. Nyerere, Machel and Kaunda forced Mugabe to have talks in 1974 and 1979. It took them much less time to get Bob to the table than it took Mbeki. It is also very well recorded that Mugabe does not stick to agreements. He uses negotiations to plan his Gukaruhundis. The only way this will work is if Tsangvirai can get Mugabe out of the negotiations otherwise he will end up like Nkomo

tshepo 7/22/2008 11:43:36 AM
it has proved far more effective than anything that the UK or US has tried. What has Gordon Browns and Bush's media attacks achieved? Nothing!

kwk 7/22/2008 11:44:40 AM
The outcome from a relatively peaceful election in March was also hailed a victory for quiet diplomacy. Since then dozens were killed, and hundreds of thousands displaced. I hope this time it is different, but with Zim we've learned by now that it ain't over till the fat cats sing their swan song and ordinary people in Zim can really start to lead normal lives.Fact is even if that happens today, all that was wasted up until know will remain a disgrace to the leadership of Africa.Still I'm so saddened for the people of Zim that I'll call Mbeki a hero even if he isn't, just so that the crisis can be over.

Mlu 7/22/2008 11:46:19 AM
Mugabe is holding Prez Mbeki's hand, they are not hold hands. On your point do you think if maybe we had sent the army fewer people would've been killed, just like in Afganistan and Iraq?

Alice 7/22/2008 11:47:06 AM
Just because an MoU has been signed is no cause for celebration. we should wait to see whether the talks succeed that is the real trick. The MoU signals the beginning of talks its the results of those talks that will signify REAL success

VAD 7/22/2008 11:47:37 AM
"Victory" came in the threat of further sanctions against Mugabe and co. With international pressure mounting, this result was inevitable. With so many people having lost so much, "victory" can only be claimed by politicians.

Funnybones 7/22/2008 11:48:11 AM
I think people should just swallow their pride and give credit where it is due. Juan and his loud mouth followers will always pretend to care about the plight of the ordinary Zimbabwe whilst in fact they only care about saving their own skins. I say Bravo to Mbeki and please continue the good work

Frank II 7/22/2008 11:48:57 AM
It wasn't quiet diplomacy that forced Mugabe to negotiate but crippling sanctions proposed by the West. Mugabe is only playing for time to avoid stricter sanctions. Robber will never hand power over to the MDC because there are too many of his cronies in high positions. I won't hold my breath that these talks will change anything soon for the poor Zimbabweans.

Ngoako 7/22/2008 11:49:27 AM
What president Mbeki did was good and he deserves the praise. LOUD diplomacy will never bear fruits instead will make the two parties to be stubborn. Shame to SA, that we often rush to open our mouth without better understanding of things(Be it politics, sports or economic matters

So 7/22/2008 11:49:52 AM
He is a mediator he is not supposed to be an enermy to Mugabe that is why he cannot refuse to holds hands with him. This is clever man. He has won Mugabe trust that makes it easy for him to mediat. Do you think he would be able to mediat if Mugabe saw him as an enermy. Think people before you shout.

Matrix 7/22/2008 11:51:30 AM
MorganT said that the talks are still conditional & Bob said that MorganT must accpet results before talks. I.E. They agree to talk & agree to disagree. Victory for ThaboM or quiet diplomacy? In terms of moderating still means nothing, if the conditions under which talks are held are no different to before, i.e. intimidation of MDC, by military, etc... Nothing has changed yet. Will still get worse & whatever results will be blamed on mediators as imperialist medalers in domestic afairs.

eddie 7/22/2008 11:52:30 AM
The fact that we are having these talks is clear that the SADC and AU are a failure. In other parts of the world, when one loses an election, they concede defeat and leave office. In Zimbabwe and Kenya you cause violence and negotiate a GNU faciltated by AU and SADC. so when is the people's wishes going to be respected? What Mbeki should be saying to Mugabe is that he has lost lost the elections and must step down and hand over power. For how long shall Africa continue to be a source of shame and dereliction in world politics. Come on Mbeki, do the right thing

maleko 7/22/2008 11:52:33 AM
Great news that the opposition leaders are now able to talk ut what is the point. These 2 leaders are just puppets who are controlled by the gang of 6. They are the ones who lead Zimbabwe and need to be brought down so doubt we will se any changes anytime soon.

fatman 7/22/2008 11:52:34 AM
this is not a victory for quiet diplomacy,it`s the result of the threat of imminent international sanctions,don`t lay the credit at Mbeki`s feet cos it`s not his doing,holding hands with a dictator does`nt account for anything.

Llyn 7/22/2008 11:53:14 AM
I wish somebody would explain to me what Mr. Mbeki thinks is quiet diplomacy.... this is not a victory. A victory would have resulted in the March election results being upheld. This is not democracy and makes me wonder what our government is doing and how they define the word "democracy". If I were the MDC I would not be satisfied with this outcome at all.

Disgraceful 7/22/2008 11:54:46 AM
The only victor in this scenario is Mugabe. Any acknowledgment of that barbaric dictator is a blatant failure. Thabo you are a disgrace to our country

John Camp 7/22/2008 11:56:10 AM
And if Thabo was to attempt to claim any of the credit for the current situation in Zimbabwe it would be theft! His quiet diplomacy has failed dismally, how many MDC supporters lay dead? Zimbabwe remains extremely volatile and although they are now heading in the right direction i feel the road will be a long one.

the monk 7/22/2008 11:56:35 AM
Why is anti-Mbeki , pro DA ? Seems many members in the ANC cant stand Mbeki! Quiet diplomacy - time will tell if anything comes from this MoU - all the while the country burns and its people suffer. Funny how when the west threatens to restrict Bob and his cronies , things change.

chris 7/22/2008 11:59:18 AM
It was probably a whole range of things contributing to this outcome. Even the pressure coming from the UN, the EU, the US must be seen as contributors to quiet diplomacy. Glad however that no force, military or sanctions were used, most probably triggering the loss of more lives and disaster for the region. In this sense, Mbeki, the AU and SADC are right - an African solution for an African problem must be found!!

Zimbo 7/22/2008 11:59:25 AM
What does it mean if the MOU just says: Externa Inteferednce, Radio,Sanctions, Land Question etc.These areas are Mugabe's contribution on the agenda.It shows Mugabe has naturally written the MOU for MT to sign !These have been Mugabe's perenial ''essays'' and he means to set his ''own way'' for MDC and all of Zim.Can some one explain to me what it means i am of course confused ! - If Mugabe could not support the ballot results, do you think he will, a mere piece of paper ?,Wake up Mbeki!!!

Concerned 7/22/2008 12:00:45 PM
It was long expected that Robert Mugabe will have it his way in the end. Who will lead the transitional govenment ? Rbert Mugabe. Why did so many people die ? Why were they tortured ? All in vain. No wonder africa is lagging so behind in everything at this day and age. African politics sucks like Kolobe.

CTheB 7/22/2008 12:02:06 PM
I don't believe this can be called a victory for quiet diplomacy, but not because this could be an essentially meaningless bit of paper with scribbles on it. Massive pressure is being applied on an international scale, pressure that is threatening to increase substantially. If this is claimed as a victory for quiet diplomacy, is the cost of victory by that route worth it?

ms marple 7/22/2008 12:03:25 PM
Leadership styles differ, Mr Mbeki is a strong, silent, non aggressive, patient and very, very wise man. European leadership qualities of arrogance, impatience and instant gratification, mixed with stupidity, eg G Bush, is in stark contrast to the Mbeki style. Mbeki achieved in Zim, Bush failed in Irak. Viva Africa, VIVA

Peter 7/22/2008 12:04:30 PM
They do not have an option as boycotts will ruin the region. So much for the power struggle? It only holds to a point then no more. I will campaign until the end of days for irresponsible leaders to face justice in the world court. They who caused misery and death to the people of their countries. I think Mbeki must also be implicated for his role in Zimbabwe and his denial for murders here at home which he is accountable for. The days are few before Mugabe and Mbeki has to face their role in the murders committed in their respective countries. Quiet diplomacy made Mbeki guilty of murder locally and at Zimbabwe. Does the law not stipulate that it is one?s responsibility to save a life when you are a witness to a murder or otherwise you are also guilty?

CTheB 7/22/2008 12:04:32 PM
I don't believe this can be called a victory for quiet diplomacy, but not because this could be an essentially meaningless bit of paper with scribbles on it. Massive pressure is being applied on an international scale, pressure that is threatening to increase substantially. If this is claimed as a victory for quiet diplomacy, is the cost of victory by that route worth it?

Billy of Arabia 7/22/2008 12:05:08 PM
People have died 'cos "quiet diplomacy" has been going on for more time than I can remember. The deliverable was a 'solution' and as can be seen from this last election, Mr. Mbeki did not deliver, again. Failure is ok, but he should have admitted to much earlier as this could have saved some lives. The Western politians failed as well as they have no vested interest, so no action in Africa. They rather spent their time creating a debt laden Iraq (to them) to guarantee their oil supply....

Vince 7/22/2008 12:06:24 PM
Common sense dictated years ago that the mindset of the previous freedom fighter turned despot, Mugabe, required firm and decisive intervention in support of demcratic concepts that the same regime used to gain so much capital in the first place. Go to all the graves and maimed children and rape victims and ask for a real response, far away from your armchairs and political firesides.

DavidD 7/22/2008 12:07:10 PM
During the period of Mbekis mediation, Mugabe broke the agreement not to hold elections. He lost 2 elections (parliament and presidency) terrorised and killed the legal opposition and Mbeki has now organised talks about him (ZANU_PF) being part of a new government. Whatever money comes into the country he'll claim as a personal victory against the British. In other words this is a victory for ZANU_PF and Mugabe over Mbeki's mediation.

John Camp 7/22/2008 12:09:17 PM
PEOPLE, just what has Mbeki done that qualifies as quiet diplomacy? JUST WHAT IS QUIET DIPLOMACY? It's, simply put, doing absolutely nothing or as many would put, turning a blind eye. I hate to upset the remaining few Mbeki supporters but west has brought about change in Zimbabwe and not our useless, limp president

Prozac prescription 7/22/2008 12:10:11 PM
South Africans ever so pessimistic.The people who comment here cant see the woods for the trees.It took South Africans more than 50 years to get to democracy thousands of people lost their lives, you all know the story.Its been 10 years since Zimbabwe started the downward spiral.

Tebogo 7/22/2008 12:11:58 PM
The fact that Pres. Mbeki has been acknowledge by SADC, The UN, The SA Gov. and GOD forbid the USA and Britain mean he has been doing something right. I'm sure some people would like to give credit to Brown and Bush who did ZIP.

Viva Mbeki viva 7/22/2008 12:13:26 PM
For those negative ones. Do you understand the role of the mediator. NO. I thought as much. Mbeki need you support to be able to deal with the crisis. What is a mediator can somebody answer me

S2 7/22/2008 12:16:11 PM
Middle East has had a number of MOU in the past and 40 years later there is still no peace ! How many Countries have had MOU (seize fires) and before the ink has dried they blowing each other up again ! Celebrations can start once the Talks have ended and an agreement that favours the people of Zimbabwe comes into effect ! Then the hard work starts !

JOSEPH 7/22/2008 12:17:01 PM
ABSOLUTELY PEAR PRESSURE NOT A VICTORY .MBEKI COULD HAVE TOPPLED THESE TYRANY MUGABE . ONE CAN TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAY MR MBEKI IS TOO SOFT TO MUGABE .

Mart 7/22/2008 12:17:01 PM
Quiet diplomacy did blow-all. Only the final realisation that their country was so far stuffed brought about this result.

patrick bateman 7/22/2008 12:17:24 PM
Thabo Mbeki's legacy is that of an impotent fool completely out of touch with his populice. "Quiet Diplomacy??"- spare me please. Why not ask the families of the thousands of people murdered by that piece of scum Mugabe whether they think it has been a success. Mbeki, like Bush, is trying to get out of office with some dignity but like his ludicrous American counterpart he will go down as a monumental failure.

terence 7/22/2008 12:17:53 PM
kolobe and others are posting under different aliases hailing mbeki. you palookas need to get a life and a new hero because mbeki is on his last leg.

Francois 7/22/2008 12:18:41 PM
do you really think they did nothing? Why oh why I wonder are there talks going on... IT'S CALLED PRESSURE!? if most of the world did not unite pig mugabe would still be killing his own kind! Catch a wake up buddy!

Sam 7/22/2008 12:19:00 PM
Ithink Mbeki has been taken for a ride once more. Mugabe knows he did the same unity Government with Joshua Nkomo, went on to totally ignore the contents and still murdered people. where is Zimbabwe now since that Unity governoment? Even worse that before. So for Zimbabweans this agreement is a total failure by Africa to bring anything new on the table. we seem to be going roung and round in circles, giving in to Mugabe once more. Has Thabo done any different?

Sinudeity 7/22/2008 12:19:07 PM
Mugabe is holding Mbeki's hand. Mbeki isn't holding Mugabe's hand. With the farce election in March (Where Mugabe should have stepped down). Then in the runoff election, intimidating the opposition so much, that they didn't even want to run. Burnt body of the MDC leader. Yeah, huge success for quiet diplomacy and democracy.

enias 7/22/2008 12:20:12 PM
It is good to work for peace for our country, but play your cards very close to your chest MT coz you know very well what happened to John Ngirang of the SPLA in Sudan. They killed him in a stage manged chopper crash. The same could happen to you especially if the Hardcore ZANOIDS are to have their hands over your security. Remember that even Robert and Grace have vowed that they will not allow you into the State House. Mark my words.Hope Mbeki will be available on that fateful day to comment.

Jacques Jean le Riche 7/22/2008 12:20:34 PM
This underlines Mbeki's dismal failure, the chosen President of Zimbabwe relegated to compromise for the sake of not having his followers murdered by the illigitimate President. If this is the kind of victories Africa wants it is what they deserve!

White_African 7/22/2008 12:21:20 PM
I suspect pressure from the rest of Africa on Mugabe had something to do with it as well. Mbheki's leadership is still very questionable considering he runs the African country with the most potential but allows corruption in his government at all levels and doesn't do much to tackle crime, HIV Aids, or unemployment ... so much for leadership

SB 7/22/2008 12:22:33 PM
Hey ho hey ho and off to the shops abroad I can continue to go.....

G 7/22/2008 12:23:36 PM
I would like to pose a question to all those who bash President Mbeki. Short of sending the SANDF over teh border what other course of action would have had an impact? DO you really think that Mugabe would give a toss if Mbeki and every other leader in the world told him to quit and he was wrong. Beside ruin the economy, take food away from the poor what good did sanctions do? do you really think that Mugabe has sufferred at all from sanctions? Please give me a break.

ZimGurl 7/22/2008 12:23:38 PM
As a Zimbabwean this means nothing to us except to prove there is no democracy in Zimbabwe. This is not the government we voted for. So what has Mbeki Mediated? My thought is this: DEMOCRACY IS MISSING: Presumed dead. This is what Mbeki has taught us, and as for what Bob has taught us: If violence isn?t working? You are obviously not using enough.

stephan 7/22/2008 12:24:07 PM
This whole "deal" smells fishy to me. Why NOW, after all this time, does Mugabe suddenyl agree to a deal, and "quiet diplomacy" suddenly work? Rubbish, I don't believe it for a second.

JESTINA 7/22/2008 12:26:10 PM
Victory.....what victory please give Zimbos a break don't read much into this. The suffering continues

petepan 7/22/2008 12:26:53 PM
Yes, I agree with you - this is a victory, but only if you measure it to African standards. It's only 8 years and thousands of murders late, but hey this is Africa and things just take loooooonger. Why don't we hail Hitler, and Saddam too while we're at it. There shouldn't even be talks - Mugabe should've been taken out a long time ago, and brought to stand before the Human Right Commission, but that wont happen as the Chinese need there African pawns, so they can take over Africa's resources.

David 7/22/2008 12:27:21 PM
It was decided that the west should take no action and quiet diplomacy should be used by Mbeki - If the west had acted they would of been branded as thieves and racists wanting to steal Zim resources. The AU told the west that africa must sort out africas problems. The only action taken buy the west were in the form of sanctions. Just like they took against the apartheid goverment here - wake up you are becoming a huge idiot who keeps proving how little he knows and how warped he thinks

ROFLMAO 7/22/2008 12:28:53 PM
Next thing we'll be hearing that Mugabe is on a par with Madiba and Mbeki is a teetotaller!! What a joke!

Frank II 7/22/2008 12:29:13 PM
I can't wait to see Robert Mugabe on trial in Den Hague for genocide and human rights violations. The world should not allow tyrants like himself to destroy the lives of thousands before they take action.

Alex 7/22/2008 12:30:07 PM
It amuses me that fools like Ms Marple revert to the Iraq example to defend Mbeki. Europe tried quiet/loud diplomacy with Slobodan Milosovic, and thousands of Muslims were slaughtered. When this did not work NATO took action. If they hadn't done this, hundreds of thousands of ethnic Albanians and Bosnian Muslims would have been killed. Mbeki should have learned from this, and applied massive pressure on Mugabe four years ago already, at least some lives may have been saved!!

Francois 7/22/2008 12:30:25 PM
Or would you prefer pictures?

Bob12 7/22/2008 12:30:26 PM
Neither quiet diplomacy from Mbeki, nor loud criticism from the west did have any effect on Mugabe. He just did anything he wanted to stay in power. Killing Matabele, evicting white farmers, torturing opposition supporters. The worrying thing is that Mbeki gives the impression he agrees with everything Mugabe did...

Tom 7/22/2008 12:31:03 PM
Zimbabwe has set Africa's image back by decades. The era of Mobutu, Amin and Abacha hasn't ended at all - Mugabe is living proof. From now on you can forget free elections on the continent - Mugabe got away away with murder, so why not cheat? Mbeki, SADC, the AU all watched quietly. And they will always watch. The rest of the world now knows that Africa will always stick to this false solidarity and the misery will continue. Politics as usual and the people suffer silently.

David 7/22/2008 12:31:26 PM
If people wanted to give credit to Brown and Bush they would of dont you think - You are the only person here who has mentioned their names - They are idiots we will all admit that here. You are blinded by racism. It does not change the fact the Mbeki has blood on his hands because of decisions that he took - Mugabe is a muppit. And secondly getting people to sit down does not mean anything will actually get done. - Wake up.

Riaan 7/22/2008 12:31:45 PM
Let me tell you what quiet diplomacy achieved. I work with a Zimbabwean girl who's family still lives there. Her grandmother's house was burgled and burnt to the ground and consequently she died of a heart attack! All the time Mbeki stood quitely by! What good will this agreement be when Mad Bob will not share power?

Emmanual 7/22/2008 12:32:10 PM
Thanks to UK and the USA with their stricter boycotts. They inspired the quiet prezis to become vocal. The last G8 meeting where the Africans again begged for Western support played a major role. Africa were told that the WEST will donate the money promised ifffff you can solve the Zim crisis. Slowly one after the other the African countries started to realise where their bread is coming from and even the AU had to break their silence and came to speak (force) to Mbeki. The WEST is rich and can afford to be vocal and stand up for justice which is more any of the two Mbeki or Mugabe can say. Maybe that is the reason for being quiet. HaHaHa. They will never be believed again by the WEST. They gave their game away.

Brent 7/22/2008 12:32:15 PM
Reading this shows me how many of you are so ignorant to what has happened in Zimbabwe, you are not the one that pays 40 billion dollars for tomatoes or a coke, if you think that he is succesful you have a warped sense of reality. He was lacking the balls to stand up and be a leader. A "leader " who does this to a country should not be negotiating but should be thrown out.

Karen 7/22/2008 12:34:16 PM
People have said over and over that African problems require African solutions. This means that we accept that we are not of the same calibre as the rest of the world. We are "special", just like the slow child at a "special" school is "special". We do things slowly, that is why we will never catch up to the rest of the world. We are third world and that is the way we will always be. Yes, we are special....take care of us and applaud the slightest achievenment as you would a "special" child.

Skeptic 7/22/2008 12:37:07 PM
It is a con. Mugabe has shown no regard for anything apart from his own narrow interests.

Mike F 7/22/2008 12:38:11 PM
of degrading flak from "political analysts" who wanted him to conduct his mediation from the roof tops with a megaphone. And all along this couragious man (and his team) went about this job with a single minded determination, that has now brought about this very important break through. Even TM's fiercest detractors will acknowledge that to bring Robert and Morgan together is unthinkable. And all the time TM went about his business in silence, answering his critics with this great outcome.

Cepe 7/22/2008 12:39:36 PM
Is it just coincidence the way the silent diplomacy all of a sudden started to show results the moment there was widespread and public condemnation of RM by his peers? I really find the way you fail to see any wrong in the actions/failings of African leadership in general, difficult to understand. Does it never occur to you that you may sometimes be blinded by particular pre-occupations you may have? May reality dawn on you in time! Mbeki had his better moments, but not lately.

tshepo 7/22/2008 12:40:53 PM
what has your beloved western nations achieved towards a resolution in Zim? last time i checked the tyrant Mugabe is still president and the UN vetoed the US proposed Zim santions. Rhetoric equates to uselessness. It looks to me that Mbeki's the only one who has something tangible here.

fred 7/22/2008 12:41:36 PM
All the people saying viva have never been to Zim. Go live in zim and have your family killed ,then shout VIVA MBEKI? NEVER.

Kav 7/22/2008 12:43:43 PM
Seriouly people, this this situation is not as black and white as you see it! President Mbeki is playing the best hand with the cards he was dealt...judge him on the progress that has been made and stop blaming him for this crisis. Mugabe must and will pay he?s due?s for the blood he has on he?s hands!

Z 7/22/2008 12:44:18 PM
Don't you want to start on your Apartheid heroes first? Ouch! I thought as much. Viva Mbeki my President Viva!

Reality 7/22/2008 12:44:35 PM
Thabo had NOTHING to do with what is happening. His quite approach is one of the things that allowed Zim to get to where it is now. The election sham, should never have happened. The fact it went ahead is proof Thabo failed. What they are doing now was going to happen anyway. And rest assured, nothing is going to come of this. Bob and his band of merry men are just blowing smoke.

Marius 7/22/2008 12:44:53 PM
We judge so quickly but patience is a gift. Yes people lost there lifes (more people than Irak?) I dont think so at least Zimbabwe is allowed to solve there own problems without inteference, maybe it took to long (apartheid took a lot longer) I beleive our president has been proven right in the way he has dealt with this. Viva Mr Mbeki.

Kasy Aboo 7/22/2008 12:46:47 PM
Considering all the loss of life that our President does not value considering he could have saved thousands from the violence and murder almost 2 years ago. He is not worthy to be presiodent of our nation any longer.

Dick Tracy 7/22/2008 12:48:48 PM
Quite diplomacy has NOT worked. Just ask the people of ZIm who are starving and living in hell just a few Km's away. The signing of this so called "agreement" will amount to disappointment and when it does What then? The rest of the world will be laughing at us, RSA, for our failed prolonged efforts and say I told you so. An African solution. What a Joke.

Seth 7/22/2008 12:48:55 PM
Hmmm while our president is attempting to 'heal Africa' who the heck is supposed to be looking after this country? I think Mbeki needs to give up his passport, donate the 600 million frequest flyer miles he has to charity and stay in SA and sort it out! But I guess he is on his way out so probably doesn't care anymore!

VG 7/22/2008 12:50:52 PM
Well, Chamberlain would have been right. It took Europe decades to recover from WW2 - hopefully this MoU will avert such a situation in Zim. And for those who say it failed, what would you then consider victory? using force or arms or sanctions would have yielded far worse outcomes

James 7/22/2008 12:51:10 PM
Kolobe, your ability to consistently write such garbage is amazing. Quite diplomacy was a complete disaster, the only reason things are moving now is becuase the country is in a state of complete anarchy. If you judge that as a success it may explain why the first and third world have their differences....

Andy 7/22/2008 12:53:22 PM
..you have succeeded with pulling the wool as well as the carpet!! May you go from strength to strength...

ryan 7/22/2008 12:53:27 PM
You obviously dont know what a mediator is! Thabo was way too late, whats the point when the country is ruined and doomed to nothing but chaos. How can you even call mbeki a leader? Thats why africa is such mess cos its leaders just sit back and do nothing while we plummet further into economic doom. Keep up the good work Africa! Whatever.

Western Puppermaster 7/22/2008 12:54:56 PM
Hopefully this is not one of Mugabe's lies again? If not, then congratulations to Mr. Mbeki However, as I see it , this is far from being resolved. Let's wait and see... before hailing Mr Mbeki the GREAT mediator.

Charles Glass 7/22/2008 12:55:36 PM
Zim has got to this point thanks to efforts of Mr Tsvangirai not Mr Mbeki. Mr Tsvangirai did all of the lobbying that brought pressure on Mr Mugabe to acceed to negotations with the MDC. Only then was the door kicked open enough for Mr Mbeki to do his thing. I agree with Mr Mugabe that Zimbabweans must resolve their own issues. It needed Mr Tsvangirai to impose the will of Zimbabweans on the AU, UN and finally SA.

May Windsor 7/22/2008 12:57:13 PM
Does this mean that if the DA won an election in South Africa (It would have to be a miracle), then the ANC would insist on a government of national unity and not concede that they lost? That is what President Mbeki has done with and for Zimbabwe. And we all know that the ANC has used the school of ZANUPF as their teacher.

LSG 7/22/2008 12:58:20 PM
They US&UK failed in their bit to put sanctions against ZIM.Loud diplomacy could not have archieved this. It is clearly the tireless efforts of Pres Mbeki and his team.Colonialist are quiet as Pres TM Quiet Diplomacy now that they see a way forward for Zim. I never hear US & UK encouraging the parties to talk.I salute Pre Kikwete for telling Bush straight to his face that he is entirled to his own opinion.Let us all give this MOU a chance let it not be like Israel/Palestine MOU.

Colonialist Imperialist 7/22/2008 12:58:51 PM
to assist two disputants in reaching an agreement whilst ensuring my investments remain secure and under wrap...

James 7/22/2008 12:58:58 PM
President Thabo Mbeki and the African leaders should wake up and smell the coffee. They should know by now that Mugabe is a big bully. The moment the international community shifts its focus away from Zimbabwe Mugabe will resort to his old tactics of intimidation and murder. So I say to the African leaders stand up against this tyrant... shame to Africa. African

CBloggerT 7/22/2008 1:00:52 PM
It all comes too late for Zimbabwe, let us now look at the fate of Zimbabwe South!

Richard 7/22/2008 1:02:44 PM
has brought two enemies to the table, I think he is a weak president (look at all our country's problems), but a good mediator. Maybe we should reassign him to "Minister of Africa Affairs'...

James 7/22/2008 1:03:49 PM
Are you and Kolobe mates?? You talk of the West backed sanctions being vetoed. That had nothing to do with most of the law abiding West. We all know that the Russians and Chinese have a floorless human rights records. The sanctions failure was out of the hands of the west, as they actually repect the rules......

Dzvinyangoma 7/22/2008 1:06:26 PM
There are people who are only there to find negatives out any positive development. There are those talking about so many people having been killed and so forth, if that was the case then SA would not be where it is today because apatheid killed loads, Moz would not be were it is because RENAMO killed and maimed loads. People have to move on and make progress and in Zim Mbeki has achieved just that. It's a step in the right direction. Pamberi naMbeki, Pamberi naMugabe, pamberi naMandela.

BPG 7/22/2008 1:07:13 PM
For once we get a glimmer of hope and the majority of you are negative. It's all doom and gloom! Pack your bags and leave or shutup so that the rest of us can get on without your boring pessimism!

ElectroMan 7/22/2008 1:08:09 PM
Many were killed, many were forced to leave their country or be killed. Quite diplomacy (still a joke phrase in my opinion) was not diplomacy at all, but rather a 'riding-out-the-storm' strategy disguised as a form of diplomacy. [STORM = The pressure from western governments to give into demands] Now that the initial storm blew over, the African-way can be implemented. I still would like the African-way to be explained to me, 'cause the way I see it, many cultures influenced countries in Africa.

eugene kruger 7/22/2008 1:08:44 PM
Meki and Mugabe have finally signed the death warrant of western-style democracy in Africa. "Africa democracy decrees that when the ruling part suffers a defeat at the polls, it applies brutal pressure to force the winner to accept a "government of national unity" . Is this what the ANC plans to do when it loses an election - and it will do so!

Len van Heerden 7/22/2008 1:09:08 PM
has shown that it works best to negotiate and talk, rather than shout loud like idiots. It so happens that the posters in this forum and the way the question is framed is designed to get the negative response. at the end of the day, it is not for you and me, but for the people of Zimbabwe, whose lives would be spared. Mugabe is responsible for the deaths in the country and not SA or Pres Mbeki

John Camp 7/22/2008 1:09:15 PM
It's not a case of what the West hasn't done, it's a case of what Thabo's quiet diplomacy hasn't done. Yes you are 100% correct that tyrant mugabe is still president therefore are we to presume that you agree with us in saying that Mbeki's qd has done absolutely sod all???

TB 7/22/2008 1:09:48 PM
if you consider this a victory. Victory would have been PROACTIVE negotiation and ACCEPTANCE of the original vote without violence. Now they are just sticking plasters on festering wounds, which will take milleniums to heal. Sorry, reactive is not good enough. Why does the shit ALWAYS has to hit the fan first, before anybody wakes up?

Zimbo4Real 7/22/2008 1:10:54 PM
The success of mediation is not judged by how long it takes to reach a settlement between the rivals but by how long the settlement will last. I see sincerity between the parties though I was not amused by Mugabe's limb HASHAKE and hope that that does not mean any dubious intentions.Let it come, all roads will lead to Zim.........my pride!! We will salvage it up.. Zim is endowed with unlimited intellectual capacity....... Thanks Thabo, this is your moment.

LvH 7/22/2008 1:10:58 PM
Remember that many of those who see this as a failure, would have seen it as a failure anyway. If this deal prevents one more person from being killed, then it is a success. Remember the nature of the audience and then you will understand that the same people thought apartheid was a god send. Hypocrites? YEP!!!!

Realist 7/22/2008 1:12:25 PM
So the SA government wastes money to put up Morgan and Bob up in a fancy hotel to dine on the finest meals and stay in luxurious suites, and 'negotiate' whilst their country starves !! ... All at the SA tax payers expense !!!. Mugabe you are nothing more than a terrorist and murderer and you will be accountable to God for your despicable actions. So Morgan shows his true colours and joins the band of Africa's disgraceful leaders ... Well done !!

Mike N 7/22/2008 1:12:29 PM
it's 1994 and De Klerk uses the army and the AWB to beat the black folks into submission in South Africa. The world condemns it from all angles, but De Klerk is espousing how much the ppl of SA love him and it's a Dutch plot to re-introduce Dutch rule in SA. Ian Smith of Rhodesia then uses quiet diplomacy to make Mr Mandela De Klerks deputy ..... makes u think does it not??

Kale 7/22/2008 1:14:07 PM
Again all the ANC believes in is talking. As with all our own countries problems that are only ever talked about and never solved. Actions speak louder than words. Stop sticking up for Mogabe he is a tyrant, why does Mr Mbeki support him? unless he believes Mogabes? methods to be right??

George 7/22/2008 1:14:16 PM
I've been told by my reliable sources(i.e Vavi-Cosatu&Malema-ANCYL) that this whole agreement was Zuma, and Mbeki was just a post-boy.

spuddie 7/22/2008 1:14:48 PM
This is yet another con trick by Mugabe, buying himself more time and having another good laugh at Mbeki and his gullible crew. Mugabe is ten steps ahead of them the whole time and has no intention at all of doing anything other than what suits him and his murderous cronies. Watch this space as he side-steps them all yet again!

Sinudeity 7/22/2008 1:15:54 PM
The West saved the day! Not mbeki. Sanctions, and the freezing of all ZANUPF bank accounts. Plus boycotting them into any WESTERN country. THAT is the reason why Mugabe signed the deal. Grace couldn't go to Paris anymore to buy herself designer dresses. Thanks again WEST, for sanctions, flight boycotts, freezing of bank accounts.

IandI 7/22/2008 1:16:48 PM
So this is what democracy means in Africa? Mugabe looses first election, then embarks on a massive intimidation/murder spree, wins the sham runoff election, and now he remains in charge..viva the African way of solving Africa's problems!!

Thembelani 7/22/2008 1:17:51 PM
Quiet Diplomacy, my foot. All that has been achieved is buy Grace Mugabe some more time to go shopping all over the world by postponing the sanctions which were inevitable even when opposed by Mr "Quiet Diplomacy" himself. In the meanwhile the millions will continue to starve in Zimbabwe. Shame on you, Mr Mbeki.

Monde 7/22/2008 1:18:44 PM
Great Victory -Nonsensical to look back.Mbeki has shown again that he is a Visionary whose role will be realised when he is gone. Like all visionaries!!! Remember South Africa when the same point was reached 1991 to 1994 - thousands killed, thousand detained, tens of deaths in detention, Chris Hani assassinated, bombs, train killings etc. SA started in 1909 to ask international intervention. The West did not care. Supported white leadership. Mbeki has worked. Hail him - you ignorami

LT 7/22/2008 1:18:49 PM
Victory for quiet diplomacy? Irrelevant, I think!What is important is that the people of Zimbabwe led by their politicians are making a move towards resolving their issues. It is easy for us sitting on the sidelines to criticise the mediators. For how long have those international powers been trying to resolve the situation in the Middle East? Can they show any success?For how long has the US been involved in both conflicts in Iraq & Afghan? Go on & shout from roof tops, there will be no success.

SK 7/22/2008 1:19:14 PM
To even question whether quiet diplomacy has succeeded or failed is ludicrous. For Mugabe, quiet diplomacy has restored him to power and unfortunately for those who have been murdered, it means nothing. Also it compounds our shame as South Africans; we have assisted in the propping of an illegitimate regime. Sad to say, in general African politians have no respect and love of their own people. No wonder the rest of the world looks at us as half human part wild animal. I am black not proud

Mike 7/22/2008 1:21:30 PM
Can someone enlighten me here.If a person is appointed as a mediator is the purpose not to try a bring the parties to the negotiating table for settlement to be reached?What did we expect Mbeki to do?Condemn Mugabe in public or invade Zimbabwe?We have discovered that Mugabe is a nincompoop who does not care what the world say about him.What has international pressure done to stop the suffering in Darfur?How long did international pressure take to bring the Apartheid Regime to its knees?

charlie 7/22/2008 1:21:54 PM
This is the biggest peace deal since beginnig of time , Ok so Zimbabweans , your country is now sorted out , will you all please go home , all 8 million of you ? Thanks and have a good trip !!

philimon 7/22/2008 1:24:07 PM
How many must be murdered by Mugabe and his supporters before they decide maybe they should have talks about talks. Mugabe is a murderer and someone who should spend the rest of his days in jail for crimes against humanity. So no celebration just WHY does it take so long to get Blacks to do something positive worthwhile and fair? As for Thabo, well one never reads any thing other than negative stuff about him world wide. He has proved an utter failure true to the African "new government" formula.

IceCreamMan 7/22/2008 1:24:24 PM
Last laugh is with Bob, anyone who believes his sincerity in this deal is destined to be disappointed. cant believe anyone will deal with the devil.

Sinudeity 7/22/2008 1:28:48 PM
I KNOW that the 'influx' of Mbeki supporters is Kolobe merely posting under different aliases. I have NEVER seen most of you post before. Kolobe lives in reverse land, because everything that is bad, is good to him, visa versa. Only a communist would think that 'victory' at the cost of thousands of lives is a success. Stalin killed 20,000,000 people in his lifetime. How many did Mugabe? Kolobe, you are as intelligent as mbeki. Being African, that doesn't say much.

CE 7/22/2008 1:29:53 PM
The people of Zim have Voted Bob OUT!Is Quiet Diplomacy the new way of African Democracy, stuff election outcomes, we will negotiate until the result some leaders want is agreed!!UTTER BULL

Sinudeity 7/22/2008 1:30:45 PM
Im offended by your statement. And by that, I can plaster you as someone who believes communism is a godsend.

Sceptic 7/22/2008 1:31:02 PM
The "colonial imperialists" have long left that country my friend. The only people left are the super rich Mugabe and his buddies, and the ultra poor which they have exploited. What a great victory for quiet diplomacy. You are an idiot and is the type of voter that turned Africa in the begger she has become. Your turn will come.

clifton 7/22/2008 1:31:15 PM
Inflation at 2 million percent and Zim currency just matured into billion zim dollar notes, my question is what are there to celebrate. The country is in ruins, the people are battle weary and abused by Mugabe and his cronies. The best that can come from this all is, if the Internation Criminal Court indicts Mugabe and his regime on the atrocities against their own people. Shame on you Mbeki !

Sinudeity 7/22/2008 1:31:49 PM
Where do you get your facts from? Stop spreading liess and ANC propaganda please.

Jason 7/22/2008 1:31:51 PM
What victory? Signing an agreement means nothing just go to the middle east and see what paper signing means. Plus Quiet deplomancy was just another way of say we will do nothing!

Leoni van Loggerenberg 7/22/2008 1:32:18 PM
What a laugh - anyone who thinks that Mugabe is about to honour anything that he has signed is barking up the wrong tree. Ever heard of "closing the stable door after the horse bolted"? Well, the horses have bolted and are all seeking refuge in SA, so Mr Mbeki if you thing this is going to work then I wish you the best of luck!

john 7/22/2008 1:32:24 PM
has it worked? will it work? follow the future media reporting. I think Mugabe will not part with the important issues to him and the generals and that Tsvangirai will be led by the nose to the point of a breakup in the talks.Mugabe will then blame the opposition for failing to reach settlement and be back at square one as predicted? what does Mugabe know of democracy anyway? John

jonathan 7/22/2008 1:33:58 PM
How can this be called a victory. After hundreds of deaths and the country being brought to its knees. This is Mugabe's last grasp on holding power and trying to give himself some legitimacy. If there is any success it would be rich of Mbeki to take any credit after years of apeasing a dictator, and what kind of agreement is he looking for? Power sharing! The only solution can be for Mugabe to step down and let the righful winner of the election govern.

Tuffy 7/22/2008 1:35:45 PM
Perhaps YOU should "look at the dictionary" and "understand" how the word "president" is spelt, nevermind the meaning of "mediator". Mbeki has always been, is still and will always be a lame duck president. He hedges his bets in the hope that none of the brown stuff will stick to him when it finally hits the fan, as it is sure too still do in Zim.

tshepo 7/22/2008 1:38:16 PM
Mbeki's mandate wasn't regime change my friend, it is to bring a peacefull solution in Zimbabwe. And he is hopefully on his way to achieving that.

debbie 7/22/2008 1:38:27 PM
Its strange that quiet diplomacy didn't work during apartheid. Also strange how blacks complained and moaned about the government during apartheid but when people complain about the current government, they are racist moaners and should leave the country. Double standards!!

Zimbo 7/22/2008 1:38:33 PM
There is no victory for quiet diplomacy if it takes hundreds of deaths under Mugabe's tyranny, 6 years of people's suffering and silently starving to death whilst the Zanu PF fatcats plunder the country and Mbeki accepts Mugabe's illegetimacy. As for Mbeki, his crass incompetence can never be hidden behind the belated signing of the MOU. Zimbo

Debt relief 7/22/2008 1:38:34 PM
Two scenarios could have emerged in Zimbabwe. Innocent people where killed when ?bully? Bush attacked Iraq. Women were abused and children ill-treated by soldiers. The people of Iraq have not seen freedom and they continue to suffer. Zimbabwe is currently at the messy of Mugabe who controls guns and the police force. How else do you disarm a blood thirsty vampire without further endangering the lives of millions? Quite diplomacy is the key to many conflicts. You don?t want to annoy those who are trigger happy unless you don?t care about millions. Zimbabweans will see freedom faster than Iraq.

Kal-El 7/22/2008 1:41:46 PM
He rigged the past two elections! Now he is pretending to negotiate. Soon he will call for re-elections and force the MDC out. The sooner mediators accept that this Hitler of a man will not negotiate, the better. He insults and threatens the world while they have to sit by and be diplomatic. I fail to understand why it is so difficult for the black man to criticize his brother when he know his brother is a murderer and oppressor of the people.

tshepo 7/22/2008 1:42:16 PM
the point is the western countries with their good intentions have done nothing except talk for the Zim people. Did they remove Mugabe? No! Is the peace in Zim? No, they have so far failed to yield any results. Yes China and Russia vetoed the resolution, but failure's still failure. If Mugabe renegades on his now promises, im sure you'll be saying Thabo failed as well.

dougb 7/22/2008 1:42:42 PM
This is not about Bob, Morgan or Thabo. It is about the people, who have suffered immeasureably. Nothing that they could possibly construe as positive has yet been achieved and the blood of our neighbours will never wash from our hands. So they've agreed to sit down for a game of poker. Bob still shuffles the deck and he no doubt has an ace or two up his sleeve.

mb 7/22/2008 1:43:11 PM
Well it is a step in the right direction. To all of you who give Mbeki all the credit, I can bet my bottom Zim dollar that you were not in meetings and thus have no clue what went on in there, so please, recognise that this first step was a TEAM EFFORT!!!

John Camp 7/22/2008 1:47:58 PM
To all those who are wondering how this "progress" came about in Zimbabwe, there's a article on News24 you may wanna read. "EU widens sanctions against Zim".. No wonder Grace is doing her shopping in Cape Town.

Daxrsa 7/22/2008 1:48:41 PM
Basically by saying you are happy with Mbeki's progress you are almost as guilty as he is. The countless lives lost recently could have been prevented had a more forecful diplomatic intervention been used. You are also implying that those lives were simply collaterall damage to vindicate his quite diplomacy. Plus you are allowing a tyrant do as he pleases in the meantime. Sleep easy my friends.....

James 7/22/2008 1:58:09 PM
If the agreement is concluded Tsvangirai will join the government as one of Mugabe's underlings. All that will be achieved, is that Mugabe's government will be accepted by all in Zimbabwe.

Jaco 7/22/2008 1:58:57 PM
I am still amazed by the fact that supporters of the the current ANC government will comment on news24 as if this is some sort of victory?! Mugabe made sure he was "chosen/elected" as president before he commenced talks - or in other words, ensured that he will be running the country, legally or not. How can this be considered a victory? A victory would be free and fair, internationally moderated re-elections free of violence. Mbeki is an embarrasment! SA looks like an incompetent country!

Cape Town Kid 7/22/2008 1:59:02 PM
To those who predicted the doom and gloom, we la.it didnt happen. To those who have no influence in the world or africa, once again, we la. Must hurt to see Africans becoming their own masters, shaping their own destiny. Yes Jesus will be very happy when he comes.

andrew 7/22/2008 1:59:47 PM
"Being African, that doesn't say much". I agree with your sentiment about Kolobe's comments, they are backward and narrowminded. But that statement is very unfair. I am african too.

what 7/22/2008 2:00:18 PM
Mbeki should be tried in the Hague with his buddy Bob. Too many people have died (and are still dying in our country!) because of really bad leadership.

Henry Haines 7/22/2008 2:00:33 PM
Hooray!! No more Moraleng, Monare, etc and the other supposed analysts on our tv

Jaco 7/22/2008 2:00:34 PM
I am still amazed by the fact that supporters of the the current ANC government will comment on news24 as if this is some sort of victory?! Mugabe made sure he was "chosen/elected" as president before he commenced talks - or in other words, ensured that he will be running the country, legally or not. How can this be considered a victory? A victory would be free and fair, internationally moderated re-elections free of violence. Mbeki is an embarrasment! SA looks like an incompetent country!

Calvyn 7/22/2008 2:03:17 PM
I wish everyone will stop referring to Morgan as a puppet of the "West". If anything, the "West" wants to assist Zim getting back on their feet sooner, rather than later,so that they don't have to fork out millions in foreign aid for the rest of time. Wake up, the entire world is in crisis, pretty soon developed countries are going to wake up to the idea that they are not wanted, and will instead concentrate on their own affairs.That will truly be a sad day for this continent! God bless Africa

DW 7/22/2008 2:03:55 PM
..hailed the "democratic elections" in Zimbabwe as a victory for quiet diplomacy, and we all know where those democratic elections got the Zimbabwe nation.A signing of an agreement to talk is not a working agreement for Zimbabwe to get back on its feet.It MAY be the first step.It may also be another meaningless gesture from Mugabe to try to get some support back from African leaders.Dont count your chickens before they hatch.

kaiser 7/22/2008 2:04:09 PM
i for one criticised Mbeki but now i say well done.now we can say there's no crisis in Zimbabwe

cedb00 7/22/2008 2:04:30 PM
It's only because the world threatened to freeze Mugabe's substantial stolen assets abroad that he is now suddenly willing to talk!

Monde 7/22/2008 2:04:50 PM
Some people here do not understand that Thabo Mbeki is and will remain the greatest builder of African identity. Those not African will not understand and should not be asked to understand. After all Africans represent inferior specimen of humanity. Zimbabwe is an issue for them not for african suffering but for the white farms and farmers and the cheek of chasing whites. TM is a disappointment is seen as having failed to protect the past masters. Hail Mbeki the thinking leader! No pandering.

Monde 7/22/2008 2:06:23 PM
Some people here do not understand that Thabo Mbeki is and will remain the greatest builder of African identity. Those not African will not understand and should not be asked to understand. After all Africans represent inferior specimen of humanity. Zimbabwe is an issue for them not for african suffering but for the white farms and farmers and the cheek of chasing whites. TM is a disappointment is seen as having failed to protect the past masters. Hail Mbeki the thinking leader! No pandering.

sandi...a zimbo 7/22/2008 2:07:48 PM
Thabo dashed back from G-8, demanded an acceleration of events in the Harare(his intro to Megaphone Dipl. 101), the UN Council was convening, Russia having undertook to support the 'megaphone diplomacy'-sanctions style,(later reneging). Ping frm AU was coming to town, so was the SADC securitariat. Oh, Blatter mumbling a 'plan-B'? Cosatu and ZumZum lurking about! Gwede in Harare, not being deported this time. The decibels were at fever pitch for Thabo. He had pass the 101,despite the Houdiniwisms

ashley 7/22/2008 2:08:17 PM
Bringing the two parties to the table for talks is a little to late for Mr Mbeki, after so much of bloodshed, he also has the Zimbabwean peoples blood on his hands. What puzzles me is that it was okay for the Europeans and the West to impose sanctions on the apartheid government, but our president objects to sanctions on Zimbabwe. The same methods are were used as was the case with the apartheid government only this time it is an african man doing this to his country.

MC 7/22/2008 2:10:14 PM
I'll change my view if I see REAL progress.....

mb 7/22/2008 2:12:40 PM
Well it is a step in the right direction. To all of you who give Mbeki all the credit, I can bet my bottom Zim dollar that you were not in meetings and thus have no clue what went on in there, so please, recognise that this first step was a TEAM EFFORT!!!

Fraud 7/22/2008 2:14:26 PM
What alternative was there to restore sanity in Zim? Mandela and the ANC achieved something that no one else in world's history has ever achieved - talking their way to freedom. All other countries had to experience civil war to gain freedom,but not SA.Mbeki simply wants to show the world that the old African way of talking things through still works.Part of his African Renaissance is to change how Africa is seen by the world and by itself.Dont get wrong, I'm not a Mbeki fan,just being objective.

Filemon 7/22/2008 2:15:07 PM
the cahnge came after further sanctions were to be placed on mugabe and his cronies. Mediation changed after AU and UN added extra mediators. shows how quickly change copuld have happened if Pres Mbeki was not so quiet for 8 years

Malcolm 7/22/2008 2:17:51 PM
Kolobe, you frighten me bru! What a load of rubbish you have sprouted. Quiet diplomacy has failed the people of Zim completely never mind what the colonialists think. Out with Mad Bob.

Martin 7/22/2008 2:18:21 PM
Tata ma Zimbabwe!

dumi 7/22/2008 2:19:18 PM
The fall of apartheid took years too, even the the demise of Mugabe couldn't happen overnight, give the poor Mbeki a credit. So many people tried to make sense to PW and Co. but they didn't accept it right away. Shouting and sactions wouldn't would have achieved zero by now. Tsvangirai would have won the March elections.

So 7/22/2008 2:20:18 PM
VIVE MR MBEKI VIVA. LONG LIVE

Sinudeity 7/22/2008 2:20:57 PM
So am I (African). I just dont get folks like Kolobe. Its like they dont SEE what is REALLY going on.

Huh Huh 7/22/2008 2:23:39 PM
Huh, huh. What a waste of ink and paper! Do all you stupid optimists for one moment think that Mugabe's inner circle will accept this?

L 7/22/2008 2:24:58 PM
Don't you find it odd that calling for loud diplmacy or forceful diplomacy often negate to mention what this forceful action is, and where has it succeeded? Iraq, perhaps?

Themba 7/22/2008 2:33:03 PM
Your question would receive intelligent feedback or even introspection if the audience you are addressing really cared about anything relating to Africa. Point is, many are disappointed as they would have wanted to see a Darfur/Karbul/Iraq type of situation. Loud diplmacy saved lives in Iraq? Tell that to the thousands of people dead since the US attack

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