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Right to vote denied?

2008-11-12 08:21

Dear Editor,

As with the last election, the election to be held next year is again marred by a blatant breach of the constitution of South Africa.

The Bill of Rights (Chapter 2 of the Constitution) states that every citizen of South Africa has the right to vote in an election. However, the IEC feels that it is in its right to disallow South African citizens residing outside of South Africa from voting in the up-coming elections.

Now, let us compare this to the recent election in America. Not only were American citizens residing outside of the USA allowed to vote (including in South Africa), but the astronauts (who are not even on earth) were allowed to vote from the space station.

I ask myself, what exactly then is a citizen according to the IEC? Is citizenship limited to our borders? According to the aforesaid, it appears to be so.

Our country has the most advanced human rights charter in the world, unfortunately this is only on paper as the IEC feels free to contradict the very rights that the people fought for. This should not be tolerated. We have fought hard for democracy, so let us hold fast to what we deserve.

One question though comes to mind; will the foreign ambassadors be allowed to vote?

Robert Ndungane,
Pretoria

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scorp 11/12/2008 8:26:29 AM
well done, As with everything else, What the ANC say and do is world apart.....

Sinudeity@Gmail.com 11/12/2008 8:30:47 AM
That the South Africans' outside of South Africa, are, white and/or anti-ANC. Why would the racist ANC let these people vote? Criminals can vote though. Just like they can stand to be president of South Africa. Just for the record, I will NEVER acknowledge Zuma, as ANYTHING of South Africa. *spit*

Kolobe 11/12/2008 8:32:47 AM
As far as I am concerned South Africans residing in other countries should never be allowed to vote, they have decided to leave the country and why must they vote for the government that will rule over us, we that remains in this country have a right to choose our own leadership, they decided to go so let them make peach with it.

Mark T 11/12/2008 8:33:28 AM
Yes indeed, Ambassadors based overseas will be allowed to vote. Could it be that SA citizens living overseas may not vote for the correct party? Another problem I have with this, is that people in prison will be able to vote. This is pure political manipulation.

Thembi 11/12/2008 8:33:57 AM
Why does the IEC not give good reasons for denying South Africans the right to vote. The IEC must let South Africans to vote Finish and Klaar its their right or it must be taken to the constitutional court

Sinudeity@Gmail.com 11/12/2008 8:34:05 AM
That the South Africans' outside of South Africa, are, white and/or anti-ANC. Why would the racist ANC let these people vote? Criminals can vote though. Just like they can stand to be president of South Africa. Just for the record, I will NEVER acknowledge Zuma, as ANYTHING of South Africa. *spit*

Chris G 11/12/2008 8:37:44 AM
This doesn't surprise me at all. The majority of people that left this country did so because they're not happy with the way it's being run. In voter terms that means they won't be voting ANC, so naturally they don't want them to be able to vote. Yet another step closer to Zimbabwe... thank goodness some decent opposition is emerging.

Ryan 11/12/2008 8:38:49 AM
I totally agree with you on this one! I have a friend who is working in foreign country to increase exports of local produce around the world, and he is not allowed to have a say in the upcoming elections.He is doing a service for his country and he intends to be back in SA ASAP! I think it is absolutely ridiculous and smacks of 3rd World African laziness!

Sinudeity@Gmail.com 11/12/2008 8:39:59 AM
That the South Africans' outside of South Africa, are, white and/or anti-ANC. Why would the racist ANC let these people vote? Criminals can vote though. Just like they can stand to be president of South Africa. Just for the record, I will NEVER acknowledge Zuma, as ANYTHING of South Africa. *spit*

Zweli 11/12/2008 8:40:11 AM
Unfortunately mntwakaNdungane we are not Americans, we are South Africans and that makes a huge difference between us. May be in 2019 they will vote. Remember even the good things that you see in the "so called civilised world" were not archived in 10 or 20 years. So we will get there. Just be patient. On the other hand these people left SA on their own choices, they were not forced. So they can come back to vote.

Kolobe 11/12/2008 8:40:54 AM
I am shocked that people cannot differentiate between the ANC and the IEC, so it is the ANC that counts your votes after the elections? Don?t be ridiculous the IEC is an independent body, if people want to cast a vote they must come back and register to vote, it their vote really means that much then they must come home to vote simple. we are not going to waste thousands of rands when we have pressing issues like houses to build, they decided to go so they must come back.

ChriS 11/12/2008 8:41:13 AM
I live and work outside the borders of SA because I was discriminated against trough BEE and AA. Strange that my qualifications are good enough internationally, but not in SA. And let's face it, who is the IEC targeting? What skin colour represents the most SA expats?

Oom_Kosie 11/12/2008 8:41:46 AM
LOLOLOL "make peach with it" !!!! HEHEeheheh, that's a funny one, Kolobe! I'm going to use it as well. Could be an awesome pun in a cartoon.

Kenroid 11/12/2008 8:44:16 AM
Then people who are still citizens of SA and are living overseas should be allowed to vote! WHY do prisoners have the right to vote? Especially those convicted of murder and rape! They have taken rights of others...so theirs should be taken! Death to the murderers and rapists!

Annie 11/12/2008 8:44:26 AM
Have you considered the fact that some may be out of the country on holiday, or maby going to a funeral of a loved one? Perhaps even going to assist an adult child who is having a baby ? No, I don't think you even considered that ! The ANC know that they may lose if citizens living abroad vote.

Sandelk 11/12/2008 8:45:11 AM
I think that all South Africans, regardless of where they reside should be allowed to vote - although I do also feel that those whom have formally immigrated to other countries for over 5 years, should then not be allowed to vote. I have friends over in Europe for the next 2 years purely for business reasons and its unfair if they're not allowed to share their vote - as they're just as committed to this country as anyone else living in it presently.

Boni 11/12/2008 8:45:32 AM
why not approach the constitutional court to challenge this instead of moarning here..

Big Bad Bob 11/12/2008 8:52:41 AM
Do make provision for categories of SAns overseas to vote. If you're studying, representing SA at sport, on government business, on a business trip etc then you are provided for and provisions will be made for you to cast a vote in advance or overseas. There is nothing stopping any SA citizen from voting at the station where they are registered. Wether or not the IEC should provide remote facilities for those who retain citizenship but have no intention to reside in SA is a good question.

chan 11/12/2008 8:52:55 AM
as south africans should be to vote regardless of where they live - they could help bring about change & its because of existing leadership and issues they left, if things start to change ppl would love to actually come home. then disallow criminals to vote!

Big Bad Bob 11/12/2008 8:53:47 AM
This is SA. Not the USA. Different constitutions, different laws. Just because something is allowed or forbidden in the USA doesn't mean it should happen here.

DonPh 11/12/2008 8:54:37 AM
If you accept the logic of not allowing SA Citizens residing abroad to vote, then by implicition you must accept that non-SA Citizen, who are legal permanent residents of SA SHOULD BE ALLOWED to vote. These permanent residents, who might still be passport holders of foreign countries, have a vested interest in the well-being of SA. They are paying SARS income tax, paying municipal rates & taxes, and generally supporting the SA economy. Maybe 3-5 years should the waiting period before they vote.

Mzi 11/12/2008 8:56:27 AM
as far as I know, south africans who are in other countries temporary will be able to vote but those who have permanent residence in those countries will not vote. it is amazing how RSA will allow prisoners to vote and refuse our professionals who are raising south african flags in other countries. the IEC needs to review their policies again.

Annie 11/12/2008 8:56:40 AM
We don't have a date for when voting will happen, which does pose another problem for those people of all colours who may want to travel abroad next year. SA Citizens may also be out of the country for funerals of loved ones, or being with their adult kids when a new baby is born. So Kolobe, in light of that, what would you answer ?

Les-Maada 11/12/2008 8:56:58 AM
Where did you learn of this restriction for the citizens abroad not to vote by the IEC?Or is it that some of us are lacking behind in as far the latest developments are concerned?I just thought all citizens abroad has been allowed to vote all along & mostly encouraged to do so!Your letter is just so short & undetailed therefore fails to execute its primary purpose of feeding Ppl some correct info!Such spreading of baseless info is very unnecessary especially when SA is in its sensitive periods!

Richard Hipkin 11/12/2008 8:57:03 AM
Kolobe, chief, not everyone who left SA did so because they turned their backs on us. There are people over seas who are because they want to experience or get experience abroad, some escaped because their husband and children were murdered here, some were transferred, some are studying and some are working for multinational companies - so are you saying that WE should consider these people as traitors. I think you being completely unfair and unreasonable as the law itself.

ShRoOm 11/12/2008 8:58:57 AM
Again this just goes to show that we are living in an undemocratic society - where South African citizens are not even allowed to vote just because they are not currently living in the country. Ridiculous! So are they saying if Zuma goes overseas he can't vote? I find this hard to believe and again this just shows how racist and power-hungry the ANC actually is. They will do anything to hold onto power because they know most people overseas will not vote for the ANC!

The Native 11/12/2008 9:00:07 AM
Chris you chose to be an expat, then stay an expat. Consentrate on building your career in your adopted country and live us, the loyal citizens of this country to exercise our rights of choosing whoever we want for government. I can't imagine myself allowing a child of mine who willingly left my house, to have a say on how i should run matters of my family, just an example.

Guy 11/12/2008 9:01:56 AM
not very articulate but your point is taken. However I would suggest that the "we that remains", should then by the same token make "peach" with determining your own future rather than begging from the same countries that the hated whites have emigrated to. By the way, how about the folks that work in embassies, or should an exception be made?

Lucky Ralawe 11/12/2008 9:02:13 AM
Please check your facts or do some proper research. There are many Black people who are also overseas, and who left SA for better financial prospects overseas. If the lie Ndungane has just propagated - pls read for yourselves - is the "truth", they are in the same predicament as you are. But please go and read what the IEC said before you make foolish remarks early on Wednesday morning.

Richard Hipkin 11/12/2008 9:02:37 AM
It is the IEC who lays down that law and not the ANC. South Africans have lost all reason and have long stopped thinking and have replaced it with a TV contest type environment where each person has a buzzer nd the quickest person to insult wins... oh where are all the intelligent people??

ShRoOm 11/12/2008 9:02:58 AM
So by agreeing with the current policy are you implying that people may go against the constitution of this country whenever they feel like it? If that is the case then I suggest companies that do not want to adhere to BEE and Affirmative Action stop doing so ASAP! The constitution is there for a reason - and if it says ALL South African citizens should be allowed to vote then the current policy is ILLEGAL and should be contested in the constitutional court!

angola badprop 11/12/2008 9:02:58 AM
The ANC with their puppet chairpeople on the IEC has found a great way of discriminating against citizens outside our borders.First slap affirmative action on them so they cant get work and have to move to another country and then ban them from voting if you are not in the country.Brilliant planning by the IEC/ANC

Kolkas 11/12/2008 9:03:22 AM
It is downrite disgusting that a South African Citizen abroad cannot vote, but prisoners can. Prisoners are people who have been removed from society, some for life, why should they have a say in the same society they have been removed from and in same cases will never return to?

babe007 11/12/2008 9:04:15 AM
I agree with you wholeheartedly !!!!!

MJ 11/12/2008 9:04:51 AM
Did I read the same link as everyone else? It is not as extreme as Robert seems to point out. Did anyone else read it? You are only excluded if you have emmigrated or have a work permit overseas. Now I disagree with the work permit, but everything else seems quite reasonable. Apart from the '2004' on the link.

CleverChisBoi 11/12/2008 9:05:03 AM
Everyone should be able to vote regardless of where on earth they are but Lets face it lads and lasses,If 'people' do it like bunnies,the 'population' increases which means more brain washed ANC crackheads with a right to vote...sad but true...lets wake up from this nightmare.DA ALL THE WAY BABY!!!

Kolobe 11/12/2008 9:05:21 AM
People like Robert Ndungane that enjoys to push their uninformed agendas with words like ?We have fought hard for democracy? makes me angry because I don?t see the relevance of such words here, I also fought for democracy but to live in democracy, so if I have fought for democracy then leave for another country then such a fight was in vain.

TedHaller 11/12/2008 9:05:50 AM
Please read Roberts letter again and especially take note of the 2nd paragraph (that would be the one that starts with 'The Bill of Rights') South Africans abroad have the right to vote whether they are living there voluntarily or not. Honest law abiding SA citizens have more right to vote than criminals - yet there is discrimination. Also, where do you suddenly get off worrying about housing???

Alex 11/12/2008 9:05:55 AM
Kolobe u must be from another country because the government has a masters degree in wasting money, take the street name changes as an example, I am sure that the homeless people feel so much better when they walk down a street they can relate to, makes their circumstances bearable. Just like technology has enabled you to voice your opinion so should it assist in shaping the future of this country. Job obligations sometimes place us outside the borders.

kevin 11/12/2008 9:06:06 AM
Are you outside the country by choice or posting? Are you still paying South African Tax? If you pay S A tax then you should have the right to vote!!

ElectroMan 11/12/2008 9:06:17 AM
If you register at 14:00, but commit a crime at 14:01 your rights as a free citizen should be revoked until sentence is served. I can't believe there are human rights activists who will actually stand up to allow criminals a say in a country they do not respect. I think a petition should be taken to parliament on this issue. IT'S RUBBISH!

mlungisi 11/12/2008 9:07:13 AM
Obviously, they don't even know what is IEC. Just because there is C in IEC doesn't make them ANC. IEC is responsible for voting procedures. Stop bulling ANC for everything that doesn't satisfy your egos. Anyway why they should vote outside SA? They need to come to SA and vote.

Robert 11/12/2008 9:07:20 AM
Well lets face it, all those that left SA pretty much have reason to vote against the ruling party... just don't let them vote and the problem is solved? Right? @Kolobe: if you honestly believe that the ANC doesn't lean on the IEC when needed you truly are delusional.

Jim 11/12/2008 9:09:01 AM
The IEC is barely capable of running an election internally. I also believe that ex-pats SHOULD be given the right to vote. By the same token, many were chased away because of crime. They are denied a vote while the criminals in jail CAN vote. Begs the question - Where is Govt's sympathies?

Robert S 11/12/2008 9:09:16 AM
I agree with the notion.I've you've decided to leave, you have no right to vote. Then at the same time, disallow prisoners to vote - not a functioning member of society, also not a voter. Of course 99% of ANC's voting base are sitting in prison, so it's no surprise.....

ShRoOm 11/12/2008 9:09:24 AM
Either the constitution needs to be changed or all our citizens should be allowed to vote by law! The government can't have their bread buttered both sides - preaching democracy and telling people to adhere to the constitution and yet their policies don't correspond to those ideals at all! There is nothing democratic in denying the public voting rights and implementing racist (anti-white) policies like BEE and AA. The government (ANC) should be taken to court!

Mojojo 11/12/2008 9:10:40 AM
My missus is Austrian.A week or so before their elections last month, she received her ballot via post and on the day had to deliver it to the correct authorities in town. She is registered in Austria as living abroad,yet her ballot still arived on time and she could vote.But in Africa we have to be different.So different that we are the poorest continent on the planet & There has not been a war somewhere in Africa for as long as I can remember.So the African our way must be right.

VG 11/12/2008 9:12:01 AM
I think the difficulty wuld be: how do you distinguish btwn people living abroad temporarily and those who have emigrated and are applying for citizenship in their new country? Is it fair that someone now residing full time in the UK and doesn't contribute to the country has a say in who runs it? I'm not sure...

Mark 11/12/2008 9:12:24 AM
People working and living abroad who are legitimate citizens of this country should by right be entitled to vote, and to all introducing race into the argument, get over yourselves...this is bigger then the colour black, white, pink or green.

Dan 11/12/2008 9:12:33 AM
I agree where you say IEC and not ANC..mara your other comments are moronic...so if i manage to score a job overseas, i cannot vote?? Yes there are people that left teh country because they don't like the new govt, those i agree they can go to hell, but those who left cos crime is too much and no one is doing anything about it, or those who got better jobs overseas, should be allowed to vote..ther ar ea lot of SA citizens overseas, that loev this country to bits...TBC

Ryan 11/12/2008 9:14:00 AM
It's a joke! Criminals can vote but not those that have left? People have left because of the EXTREMELY high crime rate and because they are discriminated against. Perhaps if they can vote in a government that actually does something about the problems in SA then they will return and help build the country up... Saying they can't vote because they chose to leave is sheer idiocy!

VG 11/12/2008 9:14:42 AM
There are a disturbing amt of people here whose hatred of the ANC causes them to distort the facts to justify their vilification of the party. I'm also not sure how the decisions taken by an Independent organisation somehow become the ANC's fault as well? bizarre

Jabu Pule 11/12/2008 9:14:54 AM
They go to Australia and leave South Africa to patriotic South Africans.

Bunter 11/12/2008 9:15:15 AM
Many work overseas and contribute to the state coffers through payment of taxes. Surely this country should afford its citizens the opportunity to vote. If pressing issues like building houses is a priority then surely securing the votes of all citizens is a step in the right direction. The cost of generating votes worldwide would be but a drop in the ocean compared to the blatant coruption and raping of funds intended for pressing needs like housing and food.

Marcel 11/12/2008 9:16:08 AM
Hi Robert, I thought about this and excluding conspiracy theories and leaving race out, it does make sense to me. Surely only the people affected by the vote should be allowed to vote? Let's say I'm living in another country, I could vote for any random party just for fun, knowing the outcome won't affect me. You could have a million people voting for the Soccer Party for instance cos what difference does it make to them? Can you suggest reasons as to why they should be allowed to vote? Thanks.

slabs 11/12/2008 9:16:19 AM
" We are not going to waste thousands of rands......" Who the hell are you, you do not represent the majority on this blog thats for sure.

Ndlovu 11/12/2008 9:16:47 AM
I work abroad because it is not easy to get a job in SA. I am registered to vote - I checked the IEC website. I find it rediculous that I am not allowed to vote from outside the country. One thing is for sure, Zuma can kiss my ass...

Wooderson 11/12/2008 9:17:52 AM
There are many South Africans abroad who have full intentions of coming back. Serving diplomatic staff, AU / UN peacekeepers, economic migrants, students etc etc. Why should they be denied a vote? I'll tell you why. It's because there are so many of them, they will definately influence the vote in marginal areas.

mike 11/12/2008 9:19:02 AM
Once again the blind ANC supporters cannot see what is clearly in front of them. Just because it has "independent" in its name does not make it independent, and just because the ANC tells you its independent CERTAINLY doesn't make it so. Do you remeber last election when the President of the IEC was shown celebrating the ANC's victory with ANC members? NOTHING created by government is independent, whether its in the name or not. The ANC dont play by the rules, we all know it, even you Kolobe.

CTheB 11/12/2008 9:19:58 AM
I assume therefore that you'll be lobbying that all the ambassadors pay their own way back to vote (they decided to be ambassadors, after all, therefore they decided to be out of the country when the election occurred, so they must not be allowed to vote unless they're here and their trip back must be paid for with their own money).

psycobabble 11/12/2008 9:19:59 AM
Votes from safricans overseas are not really necessary now although they'll certainly help change the chop shop we call govt.The people remaining in SA will do it on their own.Brick by brick the power of this monster will be broken down until we have a balanced political dispensation.The people will silence the distorted slovenly voice ofarrogance from the past.

Kolobe 11/12/2008 9:20:13 AM
At this pace that we are going the next thing we will be asking that the IEC put the voting stations in our own houses, if you want to vote then go to the voting station, the voting station does not come to you, period, those that cry the constitution then that?s their problem, the constitution says every citizen has a right to vote, but it remains the right of the person to go to the polling station, they must come back and vote, if the vote mean that much.

Bobster 11/12/2008 9:21:29 AM
For SA citizens overseas, or who know that they will be overseas, to register to cast a vote on election day. What is NOT provided for is for SA citizens overseas to just turn up at some facility and vote. This is consistent with the requirement that SA citizens in SA register to vote AT A STATION.

BB 11/12/2008 9:22:47 AM
LOL, now all of a sudden we should not waste money.... instead build houses. Talk about double standards, Renaming cities, roads etc. Voting is a constitutional right! Wherever you are (apart from prisoners of course, but in SA they all vote ANC!).

Kyle Logan 11/12/2008 9:23:18 AM
YOu seem confused. The IEC not matter what it think's is run by the ANC as is everything else. And as to your other comment about people having choosen to leave, that very narrow minded. Some are oversea's working and are returning, why can't they vote? Alot have be forced to leave by unacceptibaly high levels of crime and corruption in goverment, and as long as they retain their SA citizenship they should be allowd to vote. By the sounds of it you're another one of the ANC brainwashed.

MJ 11/12/2008 9:23:44 AM
I have the opinion that news24 should pull this article as the written piece does not accurately represent the linked document, nor the truth, and appears to be aiming for sensationalism.

BB 11/12/2008 9:27:04 AM
The link provided in the article is from 2004. Where did you get your latest information from?

Jayzee 11/12/2008 9:27:12 AM
You cannot choose a leader for someone to endure. You choose a leader who will be accountable and whose policies will affect the voter. How will policies affect you if you are abroad? People should not be allowed to vote if they are permanently abroad. They went abroad for greener pasture and yet want to dictate who should govern us. They will blindly vote for rubbish like DA, IFP, COP and UDM and get true citizens to endure the pain whilst they laze around abroad. Unfortunately, voting is about sacrifice and they will have to make their way to Mzansi if they are true citizens of this country. Anyone comparing USA with SA is very dull. We do not have the resources to follow people around the world including South Africans who are in other African countries. The elections are in SA not in the USA or Egypt. People must vote in Mzansi. Period.

Oom_Kosie 11/12/2008 9:27:16 AM
By the way, you CAN vote if you are overseas TEMPORARILY. You have to fill in a VEC1 form and then you can vote at an embassy, or you can vote before the election, before you go overseas. This should be more well-known. Only if you are permanently resident overseas you are not allowed to vote (which does make some sense).

Big Bad Bob 11/12/2008 9:27:31 AM
There used to be a saying in the USA "no taxation without representation". I'm not sure that the opposite should apply. There is a large unemployment problem in this country, and it would not be right to rule that they can't vote because they haven't paid taxes when they cannot find work.

ShRoOm 11/12/2008 9:27:38 AM
What if that person is working full time in the UK on a government contract doing work for the South African government? Is that NOT CONTRIBUTING? And since when do you forfeight your rights to South African citizenship simply because you live overseas? You can try and make excuses all you want but the fact remains that according to the constitution of this country what the IEC (and our government that dictates their policies) is illegal!

suzie 11/12/2008 9:29:13 AM
A lot of black people had to leave the country during the struggle because it was just too dangerous for them here and they could not get good jobs. Years later they ruled the country. A lot of white people now leaves the country because it is just too dangerous for them, they are murdered here and they can't find good jobs here. What is going to happen in the future. If you unfair to people the wheel turns. We have learnt that

Henk 11/12/2008 9:29:37 AM
Kolobs says: "...we are not going to waste thousands of rands when we have pressing issues like houses to build..." ...when he fully supports name changes of tiny little burgs for the only reason that their names are Afrikaans in origin. Kolobe, you make me laugh. Make an attempt at consistency, please. The only reason expat SA's are disenfranchised, is simply because of the colour of their skin. Show me any regime anywhere in the world who will enfranchise political refugees.

DA-till-I-Die 11/12/2008 9:30:21 AM
If people would just realize that the ANC will not stand for a loss in next years election as well as the next few to come.I especially dislike these Hardcore (f*ck you white boy,you ruined my life in apartheid) attitude types.Most will vote ANC tho Because majority are Africans.Oh and Kolobe,I think you like all the attention and enjoy typing bullsh*t.Silly Boy.Tisk

Oom_Kosie 11/12/2008 9:31:02 AM
The whole "criminals should not vote" thing does have merit. We already temporarily take away criminals' right of free movement and association, among other things. We can also take away the right to vote - especially for criminals who are serving sentences until after the following election each time. Taking away the right to vote is in my opinion not NEARLY as bad a taking away right to freedom. Zuma talks tough on crime, so he can do this too...

ShRoOm 11/12/2008 9:33:16 AM
Easy. They are indeed an independent organisation BUT their policies are dictated to by what our government wants. Since our government is comprised of a 70% ANC majority then it is fair to say their policies reflect the ANC's will and therefore the ANC is unlawfully allowing the IEC to discriminate against our own citizens overseas! If it was the DA/FF/IFP with the 70% majority then it would be them to blame too!

Sinudeity@Gmail.com 11/12/2008 9:33:34 AM
Many black folks living oversees? Im sure of it, as Im also sure there are white folks oversees. What is your point? I did not say anything that was false. Are prisoners NOT allowed to vote?

ElectroMan 11/12/2008 9:33:36 AM
Up to the point where a person looses citizenship, the person is officially a citizen of the country where he/she came from. Therefore it is illegal to deny the rights of a person who lives in another country the right to vote. The person might after 4 years fail to get citizenship and return or return voluntarily. Thus the basic human rights are denied to those overseas. HUMAN RIGHTS ARE DENIED!!!

Shimane Mbuyisa 11/12/2008 9:33:58 AM
All South Citizens who are abroad and who have their green barcoded IDs are allowed a special vote. The only condition is that they must inform the IEC of their whereabouts, and where they would wish to exercise their votes. Sies wena Ndungane! I don't know whether you cannot read or just wanted Shroom and Sinudeity on your side.

Jon 11/12/2008 9:35:12 AM
Robert, I fully agree with you. It is yet another example of the establishment only upholding the rule of law when is suits them & blatantly disregarding it when it does not. I wonder if foreigners not being allowed to vote has anything to do with the fact that most of them are presumably not ANC supporters.

Hein 11/12/2008 9:35:50 AM
I agree with Kolobe's statement. If you decided to leave the country, then why should you have a say in what happens there? However, I believe the IEC should make a distinction between South Africans residing outside SA and citizens who are temporarily out of SA for specific reasons (research, business, holiday, etc.). If I'm out of the country for an extended period of time (for the mentioned reasons) and I have all intentions of returning, then I should be allowed to vote whilst away from SA.

Disebo 11/12/2008 9:36:05 AM
The assumption that Sa citizens abroad are white is bull.I am black and didn't vote in the last election because I was not within the borders of SA.I am not in SA now with 12 other black SA citizens,we haven't renounced our citizenship.We are still carrying SA passports,as such,ciizens.Ambassadors and diplomats are exempted from the rest but it is so unfair,we are all outside the country beacuase of work and not other motive!

Gesundheit 11/12/2008 9:36:27 AM
Who says every ex-pat was fleeing crime or a black government, a lot of people just go overseas to gain experience and broaden their horizons, clearly something you are incapable of. People from all over the world have been doing it for centuries, nothing new. If convicted criminals locked up in cells can vote, then ex-pats sure as hell should be able to!

Tienie.b 11/12/2008 9:36:32 AM
I enjoyed your article and fully agree with you. The difference is in America the people are the country and SA the Government think they're the country. As you said,the question is, are we going to allow this BS?

Sinudeity@Gmail.com 11/12/2008 9:38:24 AM
What makes you believe that the ANC did not place folks inside the IEC? Every single 'unbiast' association, has been infiltrated by the ANC. How many 'corruption investigation' panels, had members handpicked by Zuma? Armsdeal investigation/Pikoli investigation. Free and Fair and Unbiast is as big of a myth as ubunthu.

martin albert 11/12/2008 9:38:43 AM
Yet criminals in jail can vote - appears 2 be a safe bet 4 the ruling party whereas overseas visitors & residents are not! The IEC leaves much to be desired, both in performance and independence. The latest registration was not user friendly ? stations were in strange locations not very accessible or conducive to safety; once again no signs no help to tell you what to do; 1 person at the end of a long queue everybody else doing nothing; website a mess not responding or very informative zilch!

colin 11/12/2008 9:38:59 AM
Expats are not liable for tax in RSA but they want a right to vote and me who pay my taxes have to fit the bill to preserve there rights - if they want to vote let them pay for it themselves as I work hard form my money.

Disebo 11/12/2008 9:39:55 AM
I really do not understand what is temporary according to IEC,some people get contracts from 6mnths to 6 years,if ambasaadors are out of the country for 4 years or more,and that is temporary,why can't IEC garnt all of us the same benefit?UNFAIR CONSTITUTION!

Big Bad Bob 11/12/2008 9:40:00 AM
Take a little time to read the appropriate regulations. In the scenario that you give as an example the person is definitely provided for - as are citizens studying overseas or who are representing SA at sport.

Disgruntled 11/12/2008 9:40:37 AM
that prisoners can vote. I think they lost their constitutional rights when they distanced themselves from a functioning society. If you murder, steal, rape, commit fraud...you are a deviant. You should have no say towards who you think you would like to be in power in this country.

The Dude 11/12/2008 9:42:35 AM
If we could register online it would be so much easier for everyone I'd imagine.

Godfrey 11/12/2008 9:43:02 AM
Says people who are TEMPORARILY outside the country are allowed to vote.

Lucky Ralawe 11/12/2008 9:45:16 AM
because it shows how dishonest you are. Instead read section 9(2). That section says "... to promote the achievement of equality, legislative and other measures designed to protect or advance persons oe categories of persons disadvantaged by unfair discrimination may be taken." AA - which btw also covers white women is abused in their favour by those opposed to it - is based on that section. Now moan until ou turn blue in the face. AA is here to stay, and must for as long as apartheid was here.

Craig 11/12/2008 9:49:13 AM
All embassy staff are allowed to vote, if they're registered of course. The reason nobody else is allowed to vote is quite simple, most South Africans abroad are white and will not vote ANC, most embassy staff are black political appointee's. Anybody can right a freedom charter, it takes decent people to abide by it.

ShRoOm 11/12/2008 9:49:32 AM
Thanks for clearing that up. People should not be allowed to write non-factual articles on here for people to comment on. I stand by what I said though - if you are a SA citizen you should be allowed the vote.

AJ 11/12/2008 9:52:20 AM
Most people in jail vote ANC, most people overseas vote DA. It really is that simple, and we all know it.

ElectroMan 11/12/2008 9:53:37 AM
How is it constitutional and human right supportive if you allow law abiding SA Citizenship holders, NOT to vote, but ALLOW law breakers (murderers, rapists, muggers, hijackers and the corrupt), otherwise known as PRISONERS to vote in South Africa? I think I want to go to jail now and have all the perks!

Kolobe 11/12/2008 9:55:53 AM
Prisoners are people, and please not every criminal has raped and murdered, there are people that went to prison for minor things and therefore they should vote, and prison does not revoke your citizenship, prisoners are citizens.

ElectroMan 11/12/2008 9:56:57 AM
Well I believe that voting stations at South African Embassies are not too much to ask for, but I assume Kolobe forgot about those... mmm?

Les-Maada 11/12/2008 9:58:56 AM
You Ppl should've read the Act before started jumping into the mud patch!And as for the Author in Robert...you've should've been more detailed in ya article my friend!!

Fred 11/12/2008 10:00:17 AM
In our Constitution, like in the Constitutions of the modern nations, voting is directly linked to the possession of citizenship, and the place of residence has no importance. Our Constitution gives the right to vote to South African Citizens, not to the people who live in South Africa. Every South African should then be entitled to vote, whereever he resides, and permanent foreign resident should not have any right in this regard. If you are not happy with it, then change the Constitution.

Sinudeity@Gmail.com 11/12/2008 10:00:52 AM
And I'll agree, those with temporary visa's, should vote, those who have immigrated, shouldn't.

Baboon 11/12/2008 10:01:19 AM
If you want more employment in SA then reality is you'll need skills. The most likely source of those (and it isn't very likely) are expats. If you encourage them to vote, be engaged in SA, they are more likely to. They're also more likely to push a slightly more positive image of SA than if they're told to "Voetsek'. Disgruntled ex-Saffas cost this country billions every year in bad press. Getting them onside would help. Another stupid, self-defeating pointless, SA state functionary decision.

Big Bad Bob 11/12/2008 10:02:08 AM
Can't happen. Registration to vote and the vote itself is linked to an ID document. The ID document has to be presented and must bear the appropriate endorsements. Can't be done online. This is a GOOD THING.

baboon 11/12/2008 10:06:05 AM
It is a breach of the constitution, and makes the IEC look like ANC lapdogs again (just like Zimbabwe), but neither they nor the Constitutional Court have ever done anything to show their credibility as independent protectors of the people against the state. No wonder people confuse them.

Bemused 11/12/2008 10:06:28 AM
So if a South African works as an expat in Saudi Arabia, Mauritius or any other country and sends foreign money back to S.A. every month, he/she elected to leave SA and therefore loses the right to vote. But SA loves getting the money every month. There's something wrong with that tought process. Or is that how things are seen as correct and fair in Africa. ANC fair, that is.

Gavin 11/12/2008 10:06:46 AM
I have to assume that you are not as stupid and narrow minded as you appear, and that your responses are to generate comment. Irrespective of your background, you surely cannot believe the crap that you sometimes write.

Joe333 11/12/2008 10:06:59 AM
All South Africans right to vote is protected by the constitution. When you start putting restrictions on who can vote and who can't vote, you are abusing the constitution. To all whom say that it is a good thing, your constitution is under treat too. If they can restrict the right to vote, where will it end? Free speech, freedom of association, freedom of movement? Watch this space!

Richard Hipkin 11/12/2008 10:07:04 AM
I can just see this is heading off to another tit for tat name calling article, carry on. I cannot associate myself with you lot this time round, anyone who has more then half a brain cell should leave this topic before the name calling and stupidity worsens.

Sinudeity@Gmail.com 11/12/2008 10:11:36 AM
And I'll agree, those with temporary visa's, should vote, those who have immigrated, shouldn't. Criminals, shouldn't.

Bemused 11/12/2008 10:11:59 AM
Colin, go do your homework before you make stupid comments in public. Expats earning money outside SA do pay taxes on that money in SA. Even if you don't bring the money back to SA. I know because I do. So seeing as I pay my taxes I want to vote.

Zeca 11/12/2008 10:15:18 AM
I have been in this beautiful country for 29 years, married to a SA and mother of a SA, but I am a non SA citizen. I made sure that my husband, son, girlfriend, friends registered to vote. Prisioners can vote and I can't.

ShRoOm 11/12/2008 10:19:00 AM
You obviously were not reading properly. I never said AA and BEE were against the constitution. I was referring solely to the voting rights. Even though there is an allowance for AA and BEE in the constitution I don't agree with those policies. The current constitution was written by ANC 'comrades' who care nothing about the white population in this country.

ElectroMan 11/12/2008 10:19:35 AM
Well, I have a few family members overseas. Do you want your family members to have a say even though they broke the laws that they broke? Well, I want my law abiding, family members to have a say in the country they love and have full SA CITIZENSHIP in. Did you know that SA allows dual citizenship as well? Very nice to get the perks from those people, like skills, money, but deny them their right to vote.

Johann 11/12/2008 10:21:50 AM
as long as the rule that one does not have to pay tax if you reside out the country for more than 160 days stays, I am happy not to vote. The other option is to plan my vacation to be here for the election.

Pasta 11/12/2008 10:24:33 AM
Why should immigrants vote about issues that do not affect them. The gov we will be voting for affects us the citizens. The act does make provisions for those outside the country temporarily but not immigrants. Read carefully before criticizing and blaming everything on race and ANC. They must not be allowed to vote

Maryke 11/12/2008 10:25:29 AM
When I heard the news that, yet again, the IEC will deny South African citizens the right to vote abroad, I was very disappointed in our "democratic" country. Are we not too far behind Mogabe who denied the 5 million Zimbabwean voters the right to vote who resided outside his country? There was a lot of outrage regarding this decision from Mugabe from all sides in the political spectrum? but like the South Africans who left? those Zimbabweans left due to the violence they had to endure in their country. Are they not refugees, trying to find peace, but still wish to see a free, fair and safe country someday to go back to? Did they not have a say as well? Once again? double standards and we are forced to accept it.

Big Bad Bob 11/12/2008 10:27:09 AM
It would be instructive for many of us to check out the appropriate legislation. EG it is NOT the fact that only SANs overseas on government duty can register to vote whilst overseas. You can believe thumb sucks, rumours and half-truths, or you can find out the facts for yourself.

dh 11/12/2008 10:46:07 AM
No wonder certain people on here constantly spew forth nonsense and claims they are unable to back up - clearly many of them do not make the effort to enlighten themselves appropriately, and react solely on someone else's opinion/interpretation.

Fred 11/12/2008 10:58:56 AM
Zeca, you have the possibility of becoming a South African Citizen by naturalization. The fact that you have been in SA for 29 years without formally apply for SA citizenship, is a good reason why you should not be allowed to vote. And also paying taxes in SA is not a valid reason for giving voting franchise. Link vote to SA citizenship, and nothing else !!!!

Stephanie 11/12/2008 11:09:51 AM
From what I've seen in all the above comments, I think almost everyone is in agreement about - PRISONER'S SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE!!! Is there a way to change this? If everyone on this site could try to do something about this, maybe we could get somewhere. Is there anyone out there who could actually tell what the process is to take this to the constitutional court or what is needed? It is the only way to get this done, but how do you go about it?

colin 11/12/2008 11:11:15 AM
South Africans who have been outside the boarder of RSA for a period longer than a certain amount day are deemed not to be RSA citizens for tax purposes which mean that they are not liable to pay tax in RSA for all monies earned abroad.

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