A news24 user called Michelle posted an article last week accusing atheists of being mentally ill, and the sort of people who either lacked a father figure, or had an abusive one. I have to resort to sarcasm here, but on what foundation of fact did you base your assertion Michelle? All religious people know that atheists are evil, abusive, dangerous, and confused people while only those reading a 2000+ year old readers digest can be trusted to govern and dictate the laws of society.
I also gathered from her article that the christian argument is getting ever more desperate. Sadly, the believers here are not the PHD holding, university educated ones I usually debate with, but let me give them some help none-the-less to stay in the fight (I mean, we atheists still have many blows we have yet to deal before we’d have theism counted out).
Helping the Christian Argument
On news24 we mostly have Sunday school christians and Youtube atheists. A shame really, because I am used to debating with christians, and even some atheists whom have reputable academic qualifications in various fields of science. With educated people one can talk science, with ‘believers’ one can only use logic as they don’t understand science, and this is where atheists on news24 fall out of the bus.
The hallmark of an educated atheist is not the unending scientific links he or she can post, every opportunity they may get, it is the ability to take the faithful’s argument, position, philosophy, and view and show it to be errant WITHOUT resorting to explanations involving evolution, the big bang, or technological wonders produced by the practical application of the sciences.
Atheist fail to shut up christians because they use unrelated refutations to address ANY theological argument or remark. That is not called debate; that is called trolling.
If someone comes up to me and explains that there is a man dressed in a red suit. A burly, bearded, old man who has dwarflike creatures assisting him at his polar factory to assemble the most intricate toys, and that after a year of manufacture, these toys are then packaged and delivered, down the chimney of the recipient’s house; need I refute this by talking about transitional species? Would people take me seriously if I started rambling about evolution and the big bang or why Darwin matters?
The problem we have on news24, and I say this knowing that I will now add atheist trolls to the list of religious trolls that hound the comments boxes of any and every article written by me, but you amateur atheists should get off youtube and perhaps go study the science you are so quick to quote and refer to. I’m sorry, watching Dawkins on youtube all day does not make you a biologist, scientist, or much more educated than anyone who does not share your pastime activity.
Had you bothered to understand the arguments and positions of most christians here, you would realise that most of them have nothing to do with genesis and seven-day creation. However, the only argument you seem fit to present is the one used (to much greater effect by the real professionals, I may add) to discredit and disprove genesis. What is up with that? Perhaps we really have too many YOUTUBE atheists here; those who spend hours a day watching Dawkins, Dennett, and Hitchens debate and then develop a taste for the conflict of debate. Allow me to go Yoda on you all, for but a second, but adventure, action, and glory, these things a true atheist seeks not!
By the very logic some atheists claim to adhere to, you should then know that debunking GENESIS would in no way debunk the rest of the bible or the other christian arguments presented here on news24. Genesis is done with, the most powerful movement on the earth got told by the ruling judge in a legal spat that tried to inject creationism into the US education system concluded with this remark (and I quote loosely) “never before have I seen a group whose arguments are so baseless and unfounded, yet who claim and persist in the idea that their position is the absolute and irrefutable truth!”
Members of the unwashed, we have WON! We won this fight in the USA against the biggest proponents of the creationist movement and curriculum. We can stop with the evolution argument now and move on to the rest of the bible!
The Real Problem with Faith
What would a person who had the luxury of going through life claiming that anything and everything that cannot be understood by them, or made sense of by them was nonsense and deserved to be treated as such, call themself? You guessed it… RELIGIOUS!
I have concluded that the underlying mechanism for faith is the inability for religious people to stop asking WHY. Why cannot be answered because it is not even a valid question, and when the why is unanswered the WHAT is superimposed to explain the Why as per the needs of the one asking. Why does the ocean exist, to produce fish? Of course not, but this is why religious people constantly get it wrong, they cannot stop asking WHY for things that have no intrinsic purpose.
If I were to ask WHAT the ocean is or HOW it works, where it came from—those are all valid questions and ones that can be answered. But a christian will ask you, but WHY is it there? It is irrelevant as to why the ocean exists. For me it serves the purpose of a pleasant holiday destination; for the fisherman earning his living and feeding his family from it, it has serves as something else. But it is not the purpose we derive from the ocean that necessitates its existence, and it cannot be used to justify its existence EITHER.
If the average believer knew but the basics of science, they would know how ridiculous any ‘creationist’ argument is, and they would understand that the arguments presented come from people who know NOTHING about science, and are constructed to appeal only to people who themselves know nothing about science.
Let me give you christians some mildly amusing queries against science that no christian ‘scientists’ would ever think of using because they don’t know squat about science.
1. Why* is it that the universe had one part matter more than antimatter after the big bang? Had this SINGLE part not been present, all matter and antimatter would have annihilated each other after the big bang, and we’d have a universe with NOTHING composed of matter, only radiation, dark matter and dark energy. That means no stars, no planets, no nebulae, no comets, no elements, no atoms, and ultimately no life!
2. Why* is it that fusion reactions occurred at just the right time after the big bang (a few minutes) to allow neutrons to couple with protons to form atoms? Why is this important? Because neutrons decay on their own in about 10 minutes UNLESS they combine with a proton, thus shedding off excess energy and (according to e=mc^2) mass, allowing the neutron to be stable. SO now we can have atoms and elements that allow all the stars, planets, and us to exist.
3. Why* did the expanding universe cool down non-uniformly? The cold spots of the expanding universe allowed atoms to accrete, create pockets of gravity, which later grew into complete nebulae to form stars and planets (grossly simplified, of course).
4. Why* in our early solar system did Jupiter form first? This is important because Jupiter’s massive gravity helped attract and then catapult dangerous comets out of the solar system. These comets would otherwise have bombarded earth at a high enough frequency to keep complex life from evolving. The rate of extinctions would be too great and too frequent and we would not be here. Maybe only bacterial life would have existed on earth now, were it not for Jupiter.
I can go on with many more such questions, but sooner or later one realizes that asking WHY questions will lead one into an infinity of questions, none of which deserve to have an answer. Stop asking why, things are as they are. It is clear that the universe was not created for life, the conditions to allow life were infinitesimally small and chained together by the narrowest of margins. Why is our universe a ‘flat type’ that will expand forever until all matter (even atoms) are ripped apart? Eventually no life would be able to exist or form anymore in our universe, quite the perfect design by a ‘creator’ to allow his greatest creation, life, to exist, isn’t it?
So, I don’t understand one of the most asked creationist questions, ‘why is there ANYTHING rather than NOTHING?’ That is a stupid thing to ask. There is something, deal with it, let’s use rather the remaining time we have left to try to understand this something by testing and studying it, as opposed to making assumptions and assigning PURPOSE where there is none. The universe is not fine-tuned for life to exist; life is fine-tuned by evolution to live in small slither of the spectrum of reality. More than 99.9 percent of the universe will destroy all life as we know it in mere days, hours, minutes, and seconds. So I don’t know where christian ‘scientists’ get the idea that the universe is fine-tuned for life, for us. What solipsistic NONENSE!
Creationists and Disinformation
Creationists always claim Darwin turned on his own theory on his deathbed—rest assured this is nonsense, but even if he did, it would not discredit all the evidence he gather over his life + the volumes of evidence added by other biologists afterward. Einstein said that unleashing the power of the atom would be (loosely quoting) ‘like trying to shoot birds in the dark in a country with very few birds’. Einstein had to be convinced by other people that there were elements, which if combined, would allow nuclear reactions. It is nonsense told by creationists to believers who will NEVER cross check any claim a creationist makes, so they really say the most stupid things? Imagine if an atheist used this argument: I need only go to every atheist and ask, were you, at any point in your past, a believer (many were)? And should he/she answer yes the I can turn right around and say AHAA, see these people stopped believing in christianity, therefore christianity is nonsense (true sadly). It is not an argument unless you really are too dumb to even know what constitutes a valid argument.
Creationists claim Einstein and many other physicists were ‘christians, this is pure nonsense. Einstein spoke of god not playing dice not meaning the biblical, personal god, he spoke in the sense of the universe and the physics HE THOUGHT it contained. Einstein even publically clarified this matter because religious fools could not understand what he meant when he used the word god, he said “It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly.” Do you realise now, you the believers, who listen to these creationists and think they vindicate you and your faith, just how much of an idiot you look like. I got that Einstein quote in 15 seconds from Google, yet I have not met ONE SINGLE believer who came to this news24 section and demonstrated they had dug deeper into the matter and have to admit that Einstein actually was not a believer.
Christian Scientists Are a Joke
I’ve also noticed that a christian scientist is the sort of student who sat in the biology lecture and deduced that the bacterial flagellum could not possibly have evolved because they cannot fathom how it would have done so. So christian scientists are mainly those students who did not understand the lecture and couldn’t bother to look it up. One can complete a degree in a subject you don’t take as verbatim because we all possess the ability to learn things we don’t understand. Mathematics is POORLY understood by many an A-grade high school student, but because they memorized the order of operations they can do basic algebra without really knowing the reasons why the operations have to be performed in a certain order. This is called learning something like a parrot: you can recite it perfectly (and pass), yet fail to comprehend anything of what you said. Science-based education in the world today is a damn JOKE! We don’t even need creationism in the curriculum because the current curriculum is so shoddy it does enough to confuse people on the topic of science.
Education is to Blame!
To elaborate on the point I made at the end of the previous paragraph, one need only observe the masses. They have spoken! They want Lindsey Lohan’s freckled twat and what she does with it one the front-page of every magazine, and as the main story of the evening news bulletin. They want sex tips, and weight-loss advice from Oprah Winfrey, not a lecture on evolution from Richard Dawkins! Who wants to read and hear about boring science and in the process learn something about reality when you can thrill your friends and impress at every party with the news that Lindsey Lohan is in jail again!
Who or what do I blame for this Homer Simpsonification of the masses? I blame the education institutions around the world that are neglecting proper science-based education! Science and mathematics have been dumbed down for the masses (globally, not just in SA and the USA) to the point where you can be a straight A student in both Science and Math and still not comprehend either subject.
That is why, fellow comrades, you are ten times more likely to make the front page if you are Britney speaks puking on the curb VS a new scientific breakthrough that enhances our understanding of reality.
And as a testament to how poor our education has got, these days, you can even graduate from Harvard University in the fields of Physics and Biology and still call yourself a devout christian! If a believer can go through Harvard and graduate out at the other end unconvinced about the accuracy, validity, and importance of science then what does that say about a Harvard Education (rumoured to be the best education money can buy)? This also shows that the 150IQ admission into Harvard means nothing, so much for the high IQ = an atheistic predisposition or atheistic eventuality! New irony please, because you can’t be intelligent and stupid at the same time!
Opinions also do not Matter!
Taking their deliberate stupidity to new levels is the absolute hallmark of the religious. These people are SPITEFUL and OBSTINATE to the extreme. The more evidence, reason, proof you give, the more they discredit EVERYTHING about you. We atheists have a mental illness, we are murderers, we represent ALL that is bad about humanity, etc. etc. etc.
Christians want the ‘don’t say anything bad about me, I won’t say anything bad about you’ basis for all debates. This is camouflaged under this statement ‘Respect my beliefs and I’ll still think you’re wrong.’ Sadly, whether you accept it or not, there are some arguments an atheist can present, which you CANNOT throw back at them. I believe in science and I can prove my beliefs in the here and now; christian: OH YEAH! Well I believe in god and I have my own revelations to prove he’s real to me! HA! Perhaps you do, that does NOTHING to bring your god out of your fantasies and into reality! He exists, with proof sufficient for your needs, in your mind and that, to the best of my and every scientist’s observations is the ONLY place god exists!
But Kent Hovind says this about polonium haloes… blah blah blah… no transitional forms (what is a seal then?) and NO evidence (yes because you discredit everything and or can’t understand it).
My Challenge to the Faithful
Volumes of assertions are made by believers, based on nothing but sour grapes (possibly from reading one of my articles) and the desperate need to just say something insulting back to atheists. It’s what is commonly called KINDERGARDEN tactics. But hey, you faithful must become like children right? Rest assured, you succeeded spectacularly!
Now go move mountains or walk on water with your faith as your bible PLAINLY states you would be able to do if you only had faith as small as a mustard seed (a true test because it is falsifiable)… until then, don’t tell me you have faith. You have NOTHING but an inflated ego!
Unlike a reader’s digest subscription, which requires one to move by the width of continents to finally cancel, the bible will most likely meet you on foreign shores, again. It proves NOTHING as to the validity of its claims, not a damn thing! The argument form popularity is a logical fallacy and cannot be used to argue FOR the validity and accuracy of the bible. Need I remind you faithful, at one time, only one man on this planet thought it was round… and who was correct?
I pose this challenge to ANY believer of ANY faith. Present your case, I will answer without posting you links to youtube debates, Wikipedia articles, or quotes form scientists, if you can do the same and argue purely from your bible, faith and personal revelation.
My position is that your argument is so fundamentally flawed (not to mention weak) that I need only logic and a bit of psychology to challenge your position. I have attacked your faith with the proclamations and statements OF your faith; I have discredited your comprehension of your holy book WITH excerpts from your holy book. I don’t need science for the kind of believers who dwell on news24.
Morality without Faith
Creationists are fighting against evolution so bitterly because they are terrified that if you can convince people they are apes, they will behave like apes.
You, the believer, robbed of your faith, may very well descend into mindless and wanton behaviour. You may rob, murder, rape, torture, and imprison your fellow homo sapiens, but don’t think you speak for everyone when you say, WITHOUT GOD, WHERE DOES MORALITY COME FROM? You then show, quite plainly, that your fellow humans should view you as an animal, kept moral, peaceful, and socially functional ONLY because your handler has you on a leash. Fine by me, you cannot function on a moral level without being threatened with eternal torture and lured with eternal reward, but don’t think we are all as limited as you are.
It is evident that without so much as a speeding ticket to my name, I, a bloodshot atheist, can be moral DESPITE the fact that I believe, deep down in the very core of my being, that I can do any number of unsavory things to you and others, and upon my death will not be held accountable by anyone.
My Attacks on Science
String theory is not an explanation; it is the HOPE for an explanation. It is a purely mathematical model which is held together with an extremely powerful glue called ‘how else would you explain the weakness of gravity?’ The people who constructed this model are the telescientists like Michio Kaku, scientists who really have contributed nothing SUBSTANTIAL to science in their own way (unlike Newton and Einstein and Hubble).,They simply constructed a mathematical model that they feel explains why gravity is the weakest of the four elemental forces in nature. They cannot show you ANY lab data, evidence, or experimentation methods for how and or why they came up with this model. String theory, no matter how ELEGANT it looks chalked out on a black board in baffling calculus, is NOT a product of science, it is a product of overeager and impatient (not to mention lazy) physicists. And I challenge ANY scientist here to prove me wrong because you sir/madam will then make history and surely win the Nobel prize in Physics!
This is where I give Michio Kaku, Ed Witten, and the other M/string theorists on the planet the big, fat finger. Stop playing with MATH models! Do what science does, what makes it credible and different from religion; go in the lab and WORK. Get those white coats dirty! Generate data, analyze it and then look at what it is pointing to then test that and make sure you interpret the data without bias. Even Hawking is guilty of meddling in math too much, but he used it to predict and explain how black holes, and if they produce one in the LHC, he will win a Nobel prize. Not the bullshit Nobel PEACE prize as held by numerous, otherwise plain people, but the REAL thing!
One can only be critical of science when you understand it and the fact that no single christian here has ever been able to challenge string theory shows me how absolutely clueless they are of science and it’s most contentious areas. This is why I don’t talk science to christians here.
What are the Odds for a Fine-Tuned Universe Capable of Supporting Life?
What are the odds of everything in the universe being JUST RIGHT for us to exist? Well, what are the odds that you would hit a particular a moth with your car’s windscreen whilst driving out in the countryside? No really, let’s examine this as a ‘believer’ would. It is amazing to hear people who know so little about ‘odds’ and ‘chance’ demands so much to explain the odds or chance of us being here.
I can do this without mathematics, meaning 80% of people won’t instantly close the article and be none the wiser.
Ok, so something as insignificant as a bug splattering on your windscreen can be made to sound predetermined and fateful simply by applying the creationists reasoning to why the universe is ‘fine-tuned’ for us to exist.
What are the odds of you being born, raised, educated, taught to drive, getting a job, buying a car, being out on the road, travelling at 80km/h at the very place where the particular moth that splattered on your windscreen would be? I mean it could have been anyone else, any other moth. Why you, why this specific moth? The odds of this would require you and the moth you have your entire history lineup in such a way that you two would meet, windscreen to antennae on that fateful second. Were there just the slightest change in either of your histories, it would have created a delay in either you or the moth arriving at that same location and the moth would not have gone splat on your windscreen.
This is profound only because we look at it the wrong way. And if you actually think this is a valid form of reasoning, then you must have fucking revelations at every nanosecond of your life. What are the odds that you would be standing here, doing that, doing this, taking a pee here, meeting this person, hell EVERYTHING for you would be fateful and every moment would have been perfectly created by every reaction in the history of the universe. What are the odds that you would be breathing in instead of out at this particular second? What are the odds that you would be blinking right now? I mean, we can go on and on and every single such instant in time could be seen as IMPOSSIBLE were it not dependent on everything that came before. Every picosecond would then have had to have been ENGINEERED eons in advance.
Now, if you can admit that this would be a stupid way to evaluate everything that happens to you at every single second of your existence, and seeing everything that lead up to that interaction as predetermined, then you may begin to realise how stupid it is to look at life and then say that all the events that led up to it coming into existence are thus predetermined and orchestrated EXACTLY for that fateful purpose.
Thank you for your time and interest in my article!