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SharksterII
 
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Free Will: A myth or not?

15 April 2014, 10:53

In many conversations with my atheistic brothers and sisters, the topic of Free Will came up many a time. The problem arises that everyone doesn’t explain their view and then the mudslinging begins…

All people are reliant on their senses and the information in their individual frame of reference. This means that our actions are determined by this information and is therefore limited…So if it is limited then it is not free will, means basically that we have determined will, not free will.

Even the basic idea or will to love each other and do well doesn’t seem like determined will...Bad news. It is and it is determined that out choices need to comply with it. It can’t possibly be free will

If it was everyone would do it...

So to love or not to love... what are alternatives?  That is the point. There are two options and you are required to choose one to comply we might ask why is to love a bad choice? However, this is not the issue. Most theists that would be the issue and most properly for the authors of religious scripts...

Despite this, the question is about free will. The morality of our choices is immaterial, and with that also morality is just subjective and that is universal message.

One might say they don’t understand why love is a bad choice? Free will means one can make any choice. The Biblical God (according to some) says you must love Him and accept His Son or else go to hell. That is not a choice.

Then the problem is the assessment of that conclusion... When I use the Bible as a frame of reference I read one will be judged on how you loved... everyone on its own merit.

I am not a great supporter of determinism, however it is unavoidable. It is all because of cause and effect. Mostly it’s just a little more complicated in our brains. Value attribution needs to be considered.

If one draw up a list of choices but weigh each choice with a value. For example:

So option 1 = 10 points Option 2 = 5 Points and Option 3 = 1 Point

These options are dependent on the information available to the individual and so is the value attribution, unfortunately which is also subjective. These options are dependent on the experiences of the individual, the information available, the desires and dreams (goals) etc.

So on you scale... 1 to 10 how important is love?

One could ask then if you want to be ignorant, is it determined will? Of course it is. Depending on your particular circumstances you have a certain inclination to choose to be ignorant…A higher probability depending on the frame of reference matrix.

Thus if one don’t want to love... and go to "hell" it was based on his/her point of reference and subjective value attribution. If a person is ignorant of hell, then the choice is not even going to occur to the person.

I have replied in many conversations with fellow debates that Ignorance of the law isn’t an excuse (Ignorantia juris non excusat). Despite this it is dependent on the Law to love God and fellow man.  Some say it’s absurd.

Hell is what we want it to be; for one of my friends he defined it as “Basically. If you don’t love me, you burn.  It’s like me telling my son. Love me or I’ll hit you “

In my opinion the judgement would be just... Some theists would not agree, but best they deal with it. We all will have a fair chance... the people that didn’t have a chance to hear of decide on the Law is doomed... and that is absurd... the stillborn and toddlers dying young are examples.

Love can only unconditional if there is no condition. So “Love me or don’t love Me” is the choices

How would you know if there isn’t a condition? The person would say there isn't and later their actions would prove if there was a condition or not. Subjective value attribution will be limited with assumptions.

Some believe others say if you don’t love Him you will go to hell... seems naïve. For those that think so, it is because of the stipulation of His law. In Bible, The Father, the Son and many of the authors have listed the prerequisites. The authors opinion of it, naturally.

When I would say that, I will be thrown out of a theist group. We know based on my frame of reference I never cared about opinions of others about my views.

It’s not rocket science and it’s not strange thinking. It’s just looking at things with a different perspective.

So is love subjective? Sure it is…We establish arbitrary values to determine morality dependent on what we want. We made it good or bad by our subjective view and what we can gain from it... What does God gain if I love Him?

So for instance, killing animals is fine for food, but killing humans for food is not fine. We establish that moral value based on our own opinions. So from God's point of view based on the authors’ interpretation of what was said, He established morality based on His opinion. The same can be said on Vishnu's opinion, he establish morality according to him etc.

Is there truth in those views on morality? Who knows? If there was, it would be subjective

From the perspective of the Humanist certain moral concepts apply. From the perspective of the vegan, certain moral concepts apply. I think the "how" moral nihilism works seems quite clear. Why should we consider that humanists are correct? Because it makes sense to you, despite being subjective. We apply reason and evaluate it and either agree or disagree based on your frame of reference. And then of course…The opinion on determined will is subjective as well

What we try to do is gather as much information as possible to reach a conclusion. The more information we have, the higher the probability that we are right. And we don’t have all information thus subjective…

The problem with Literalists is that they exclude certain information by relying solely on one source of information. It’s not technically correct using the word “never”, but we will never have all the information, therefore no objectivity can exist…

Best we deal with it…

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