News24

'Blaming Islam'

2011-07-26 09:05

Dear Editor,

So, it turns out that the dreadful twin terror attacks that took place in Norway, wounding and killing a huge number of people, most of whom were innocent children, was carried out by a blonde-haired and blue-eyed ethnic Norwegian and not Islamic or Muslim terrorism as initially claimed by some sections of the media.

The Sun newspaper in Britain described the attack as an “Al Qaeda massacre: Norway’s 9/11”.

Had Anders Behring Breivik been of the Islamic faith, most of the mass media would have described him as a Muslim and or an Islamic terrorist even if the motivation for the mass killing had nothing to do with Islam.

When perpetrators are not Muslims, the crime is often not given the “terrorism” tag and will be dismissed as a one-off incident, or it is a disturbed gunman.

The onus is on us as ordinary people to bring about progressive change and to heal the “bleeding world” by promoting dialogue, human rights and universal values.

Senseless killings and mass murder should be condemned, regardless of where and to whom it happens.

My sympathies and thoughts go out to the victims, to the families who have lost their loved ones and to all those affected by these brutal acts of violence and hatred.

People from every community, background and faith must stand; hand in hand together to put out the flame of global terrorism, xenophobia, hatred, injustices, inequalities and ignorance.

Abdullah Saeed

Disclaimer: All articles and letters published on MyNews24 have been independently written by members of News24's community. The views of users published on News24 are therefore their own and do not necessarily represent the views of News24. News24 editors also reserve the right to edit or delete any and all comments received.

Comments
  • Bearman - 2011-07-26 09:16

    Hmm, I know where you are going with this, but he was described as a christian fundamentalist by SkyTv. We should condemn all religions. Ever heard of a fundamentalist atheist bomber?

      TrippiZee - 2011-07-26 09:40

      lol, good one ;)

      Stuka - 2011-07-26 09:46

      No Bearman I suppose we have never heard of a "fundamentalist atheist bomber"...but then again have you ever heard of "blood thirsty atheist dictators" e.g. Stalin, Karl Marx? They probably have slaughtered collectively more people than Christianity and Islam toghether...so I suppose supporting atheism is not the ticket as well hey?

      PikeLee - 2011-07-26 09:51

      he was apparently a Mormon, since when does that = Christian?

      Epicurius - 2011-07-26 09:54

      @ Stuka - The difference is that despots and dictators who happen to be atheist don't commit their atrocities 'in the name of no god' or even in the name of atheism, whereas religious dictators and despots commit theirs in the name of god or using their dogmas and doctrines as justification. Why do we have to keep explaining this?

      VC - 2011-07-26 09:56

      Yes forgot about columbine and other recent massacres. There is already a big question mark over this attack. Seems like the new world order is hell bent on branding any one that stand in their way as terrorists. They've done a good job of branding Islam, now they're after the right wing and Christians it seems like. Fact of this attack coming out is, the police knew is name when they arrived on the island, they gave him enough time to kill enough people, why did they not shoot him when he was armed to the teeth and was shooting at everyone. On facebook he said he was a free mason, knight's templar, and after he was caught his facebook changed to say right wing fundamentalist Christian hating Islamist, and if he is why kill Christians and not just Islamists? Lastly, with similar massacres one person manage to kill no more than 20 people, so there had to be more people involved.

      Mork - 2011-07-26 09:59

      @stuka Sure, they were Atheists, but they did not do that in the name of atheism, but for their ideals they followed. You might as well say they did it because they had moustache's and ate bread on tuesdays and thursdays.

      DW - 2011-07-26 10:12

      VC whatever you think of the religious (or otherwise) motivation for these killings, there is nothing sinister (indicating more people being involved) in the fact that he shot so many people on the island. He first bombed the PM's offices and no-one could get through to the emergency services as they were told to get off the line. This is exactly what happened when they initially tried to report the shootings. When they eventually got through, there was a bit of a scramble trying to decide the best way to get a SWAT team there. It was decided that by road would be faster than launching the helicopter, so they had to first travel to the port. Then the SWAT team had to climb into a boat, which was leaking and kept sinking, to get over to the island where the shootings took place. By the time they got over to the island and managed to capture him, he had already been shooting for 1 1/2 hours. Plenty of time to shoot so many people without the assistance or intervention of anyone else, especially as the victims were captive on the island and could not escape. I am not convinced, whatever he says, that there were more people involved. I think this maniac is looking for attention and that was the motive. He wants to be a celebrity. He thought he would be killed and now that he has survived, he wants to be in the headlines and milk this for all the attention he can get before he goes to jail to rot.

      Almaki - 2011-07-26 10:14

      @ PikeLee, Epicurius: So semantics only count when the person committing the atrocity subscribes to a specific religious conviction, as opposed to a non-religious conviction?

      RobbedZombie - 2011-07-26 10:17

      @Epicurius: Stalin committed his crimes in the name and protection of communism. Atheism is a fundamental pillar of communism.

      RobbedZombie - 2011-07-26 10:18

      @Stuka: Exactly how the hell was Karl Marx a "blood thirsty atheist dictators"? Are you retarded? Pick up a history book before you make statements like that.

      PikeLee - 2011-07-26 10:26

      @Almaki, you took a lot out of a simple question. I was merely asking how they can call him one thing, when he calls himself another. I made no mention of semantics, and whether the crime committed by a non-religious, or religious person in the name of whatever cause they choose makes it more relevant.

      Almaki - 2011-07-26 10:28

      @ PikeLee: My apologies, I misinterpreted your comment in the light of those before you.

      Stuka - 2011-07-26 10:29

      @Epicurius & Mork so if atheist dictators and despots commit atrocities what is their justification then to have a society free of religion as Marx and Stalin wanted? I can think of a litany of reasons to have a religion and its followers persecuted without saying it out loud or in the name of atheism? I'm sorry but you don’t have to do something in the name of anybody to make your intension clear? Furthermore as Mork stated they could have done it because they had moustaches and ate bread on Tuesdays and Thursdays, Mork are you not the contradicting what Epicurius is saying? I’m sorry they where vocal about their believes and allot of people died because of that, you cannot deny that.

      RobbedZombie - 2011-07-26 10:29

      The problem isn't religion. The problem is people. Take away religion and people will find another cause to justify their crimes. And don't think atheists are so innocent. History has given many that would and did kill in the name of abolishing religion, examples are the French Revolution, the Italian Socialist movement, the Bolsheviks, China's cultural revolution. In all of these examples, heinous acts were committed against the religious. So no, atheists are not above this part of the human condition.

      Crispy_Duck - 2011-07-26 10:30

      @RobbedZombie: Thanks for saving me the hassle of pointing that out....lol. I think Stuka (interesting that he chooses a symbol of the Nazi war machine as his nick) is a bit blinded by the link between the "Swart Gevaar" and communism. Communism isn't the enemy...it's the human w@nkers who make sure it fails.

      PikeLee - 2011-07-26 10:35

      @RobbedZombie, good point. Religion is just an excuse to make something more relevant in there minds. It gives them a cause. The sad thing is, they take religion out of context, and you can take Noddy out of context and use that as a reason to kill.

      PikeLee - 2011-07-26 10:36

      @Almaki, no worries:)

      LJ Graey - 2011-07-26 10:45

      @SpikeLee: Mormons are considered Christian for the same reason Catholics, Protestants and Reformists are considered Christian: They follow the teachings of and worship Jesus Christ. @ Almaki: It's hardly semantics. If the person committing the atrocity openly declares that his actions are divinely inspired and thus a direct command from their god(s) it's not nearly the same thing as committing the atrocity for political/ideological reasons while at the same time subscribing to a certain belief system (or lack thereof). @ RobbedZombie: Stalin did what he did for self-preservation. If he allowed dissent to continue unopposed his regime would have been overrun. Communism would have stayed as it was, it would just have had different leaders.

      Krush - 2011-07-26 10:51

      The una-bomber was an atheist yet they won't write that - The media is all about sensationalism - so if it shocks you they'll print it. Saying "muslim" or "christian" grabs attention. What this guy did however is completely anti-christian, but print "fundamentalist christian bomber" (an oxymoron of note) and people will read it. How many people read about the man that shot and killed those attending the party at the ice-rink a day after the norwegian mass murderer occurred? Oh right, they didnt say "muslim, atheist" and there was a lower body count - not enough sensationalism.

      Stuka - 2011-07-26 10:52

      @ RobbedZombie, Ok I have slipped about Karl Marx my apologies, but Stalin was definitely not innocent? I'm not completely all jacked up about socialism and its history, it’s very interesting and I will definitely read more about it, as I find these discussions very interesting. @ Crispy_Duck, No I’m definitely not blinded by the swart gevaar or communism actually which ever tag you add does not faze me at all. My point what I was trying to make is that atheists tend propagate that all religions is bad and that atheism is the answer to all the world’s problems. I’m not trying to convince anybody to change their believes. All I’m saying is that: yes there are even atheists out there who have blood on their hands, nobody is perfect and people will use any means that will further their cause. Yes my nick has a reference to a German airplane that was used by Nazi’s, but that’s where the connection ends.

      JMan - 2011-07-26 10:52

      @ Stuka: more than christians and islam together? You must be joking...or in serious need of a history lesson.

      Stuka - 2011-07-26 11:02

      @JMan a quick quote from a web site I found: "With this understood, the Soviet Union appears the greatest megamurderer of all, apparently killing near 61,000,000 people. Stalin himself is responsible for almost 43,000,000 of these. Most of the deaths, perhaps around 39,000,000 are due to lethal forced labor in gulag and transit thereto. Communist China up to 1987, but mainly from 1949 through the cultural revolution, which alone may have seen over 1,000,000 murdered, is the second worst megamurderer. Then there are the lesser megamurderers, such as North Korea and Tito's Yugoslavia." http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM , Now I know everybody hacks on about quoting from the net, but just think how big was the USSR and remember there as no alied forces to rescue people from deathcamps. Stalin made Hitler look like a boy scout burning ants with his manifying glass if you compare the numbers.

      Epicurius - 2011-07-26 11:03

      @ Robbed Zombie - It is fallacious to deduce that Atheism IS a pillar of communism simply because religious belief is NOT a pillar.

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-07-26 11:14

      @Krush: Please explain why you reckon the term fundamentalist christian bomber is "an oxymoron of note", when christians have been murdering and violently oppressing those they disapprove of for centuries. War, violence and murder is an integral part of the christian history. To deny that would be like saying apartheid or the holocaust never happened. It's an inconvenient truth - but one that has to be faced.

      Sharief - 2011-07-26 11:17

      SKY NEWS,CNN,BBC...they all twist the real story,and some donkeys believes all the crap they feed,yet they hide the real truth..

      JMan - 2011-07-26 11:18

      @ stuka.. yes I agree when you take those few people as an example..but Stalin or Hitler lived for only "a few years" compared to the times people have been killing in the name of religion, i.e. christianty, islam or whatever. These " religious crusades" and religious killings have been going on for thousands of years....WWII went on for just under 7 years. You can hardly compare that.

      Stuka - 2011-07-26 11:38

      @JMan yes you are correct if you take in to account all deaths over the last 4000 years but even then I dont think there was that many millions to kill anyway, but in the modern age I'm sorry no contest and remeber the USSR carried on long after WWII finished.

      carlkristen - 2011-07-26 12:08

      we are supposed to be one human family, united, yet we are so divided..and some of us so quick dig the divisions deeper..quite sad don't you think Bearman?

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-26 13:14

      @ LJ Graey - if PikeLee is right and this nut was a Mormon, they are NOT Christian. They have an entire different scripture (Book of Mormon), their beliefs are totally different - for example, they believe they were born as "spirit babies" in heaven and Adam's their father, and then they come to earth (good spirit babies are born white, you can guess the rest). They believe Zion is in Missouri. Definitely not Christian at all! Just because someone mentions Jesus, doesn't make them Christian. Even Satanists believe in Jesus in some capacity but they're not Christians now are they... @ Epicurius - Atheism IS a pillar of Communism. Communism cannot exist with a religion. Karl Marx openly set out to "dethrone God and destroy capitalism" (quote). And guess which book inspired Marx to become an atheist... I won't mention it :-) for that matter, sometimes atheists will complain about religions and talk about stopping it altogether. I just started reading a book about missionaries in dangerous countries. Interesting how Bulgaria was atheist for decades and anybody who even mentioned their Christianity would be jailed or shot. Anybody even thinking of reading or owning a Bible met with the same fate. The secret police even posted agents as "pastors" in case foreigners smuggled Bibles into the country, then the agents would get to them first... @ Abdullah Saeed - good piece. Shocked but not surprised The Sun would blame Al Qaeda before getting the actual story, it's total trash!

      Krush - 2011-07-26 13:19

      @BrixtonBriefcase - you cannot murder people and call yourself a christian. It is against christianity. What people do in the "name of christianity" and "in the name of God" doesn't mean it is in accordance with Gods Word. It's like me calling myself a christian yet telling people I dont believe in God; or saying I'm a christiand it's okay to get completely drunk and have sex with your best friends husband and then molest some children - oh, but I'm a christian. True christians do not justify their wrongs, they admit their failures, repent and change.

      Hardegat - 2011-07-26 13:31

      Jeffrey Dahmer went weird when he lost his faith. granted, he didn't plant bombs, he used knives.

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-07-26 13:51

      @Krush: Yet, there are many churches and "christian" groups out there that justify that sort of thing from the bible. My problem is this...If the Red Cross knows that there is another "duplicate" organization calling themselves the Red Cross that advocate rape, murder and starvation - surely they'd step in and try and take control of the situation. Christianity has never done that. They turn their backs on these churches after the fact by saying they're not "real" christians. Surely "real" christians should by now realize that a warped perception of "real" christian ideals have proven to be deadly. I'd like to know what "real" christianity is doing to take back it's "brand", so to speak, in order for us to try and avoid events such as these in the future. By looking the other way whilst these ideas are being formed under christianity's umbrella, they're actually supporting them.

      Epicurius - 2011-07-26 15:29

      @ Matt - I don't see atheism in the list below. Like RZ, you mistakenly deduce that because Religious belief is NOT in the list, that Atheism IS in the list. The whole 'If you aren't FOR god, then you are violently against god' mentality. Firstly, no denial that what the communists have done is atrocious, beyond belief. And no denial that Marx was opposed to religion and man's dependence on god. This does not mean whatever was done by communists in pursuit of communist ideals was due to their atheism. A side effect of their communist views happened to be atheism. That's all. 10 Pillars of communism. 1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. 5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. 6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state. 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. 8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries 10. Free education for all children in public schools.

      Risen Ape - 2011-07-26 16:33

      Abdullah Saeed, nearly all my comments have been deleted so I have to keep re-posting this question. How many letters have you written to Media24 condemning Muslim violence?

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-26 16:43

      @ Epicurius - ah but you're wrong! Communist regimes ENFORCED atheism on the population. USSR waned because their country was starving and in his last days Stalin "tolerated" religion. Before then, out-and-out banned. This didn't carry over to the Eastern Bloc states, they enforced atheism till the end. Cuba (communist) banned religion until Pope JP2 went there and then it was allowed. China is interesting - when they had the Cultural Revolution, they didn't start to teach communism in the schools - they started by teaching evolution. See, in order for communism to work, there CANNOT be any religion. Look, by no means are atheists communist. But to be a proper communist, you HAVE to be atheist. BTW how did you get those 10 planks posted on here?! I've been trying for months and News24 deletes them every time! Interesting reading, because if you compare them to most capitalist countries, they adhere to most of them!!! Fighting the evil Bolshies in the 20th Century while moving closer to the same policies...

      Epicurius - 2011-07-26 17:56

      @ Matt - I have no doubt the commies banned (and severely punished) public and communal displays and expressions of religious belief, but they couldn't really enforce atheism. It's kind of like forcing your kids to like broccoli. The rugrats either like it or they don't - even if you do have to ram it down their gullet. I also have no doubt that to fully adopt the communist ideals of Stalin and Marx et al, one would inevitably be atheist as a by-product. Atheism, however, could not be singled out as the core of the communist's being and it would not be how a commie would define themself, it would rather be one of numerous characteristics that make up the bigger picture of the communists. If all atheists were also communist as a by-product of their lack of belief in god, then I would agree with you.

      Lanfear - 2011-07-27 11:02

      @ Jman - since when is Hitler classified as an atheist? He was a christian. Roman Catholic to be precise. Why lump him with Stalin? Because they both committed atrocities? Yet you guys were talking about so-called "atheist" dictators, so I assume you lumped Hitler with them by mentioning them.

      edu - 2011-07-27 11:52

      Stalin and Hitler etc. were psychopaths - or close to it. So is the mass murderer champion human rights abuser Rob Mugabe who is a devout catholic. As we have clearly seen in history: with or without religion, there will be good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things. But it takes religion for good people to do bad things. Jihads, crusades, oppression of women, cruelty towards animals, etc. are good examples.

      Krush - 2011-07-27 13:07

      Briefcase? All very noble - take back the brand. You are asking christians then to control the masses - which requires power and control. Something we are against. Christianity is a personal choice. We could teach young children in schools that it's wrong to murder, rape, commit adultery, hate people - that we should love our neighbour, treat people equally and be forgiving and merciful - but they've banned that from schools. On TV christianity is always portrayed as catholicism or in a warped sense and completely mistrued. And yes, the most damaging of all to christianity are those people who profess to be christians yet don't know God or even the bible - they just make things up and use their "position" in the church to gain power over people. I always encourage people to read the bible themselves and develop a personal relationship with God. If everyone just sits and listens to what another man says its will end up being hollow religions and traditions. It's pointless and the message is often completely wrong. Jesus said "they worship me with their lips but their hearts are far from me, following instead the traditions of men." Wouldn't it be nice if we really could be more like Him? He was forgiving. He was merciful. He did not condemn. He loved. He sacrificed. The only way I know how to "protect my brand" is to be more like Him - through action and not words. People only hear what they want to anyway.

  • sheep - 2011-07-26 09:17

    To be fair if islamists(extremists) would stop making terrorist like statements and actually being terrorists then perhaps the media would give arabic people/islamists a break.

      Poloyatonki - 2011-07-26 10:50

      To have a control over a group of people you must create an enemy that you can defeat...Chuck Palahniuk. America & Britain created terrorists to have control over their own people.

      Muzzi - 2011-07-26 11:02

      @Risen Ape - Please note the 5 pillars of Islam? Or let me note them for you 1. Bearing testimony that there is no God but Allah, and that Muhammed (Peace be upon him) is the messanger of God 2. Establishing Prayer 3. Giving Charity 4. Fasting in the month Ramadhaan 5. Going on Pilgrimage Sorry... you said Jihad, a pillar of Islam??? The fundementals of Islam are violent?? Which of the 5 are violent... Typical of the problem... statements made without any knowledge at all.

      Riaan - 2011-07-26 11:05

      Kolobe Don't you mean animal cruelty? LMAO

      mike - 2011-07-26 11:06

      @polio -obviously the 'colonialists' didnt do their job well enough - you are liviing proof of that

      Parko - 2011-07-26 11:18

      @Muzzi - Your first fundamental pillar is at odds with other religions. What do you have to say about that ?

      Sharief - 2011-07-26 11:31

      Before SEPTEMBER 2001 who was branded as terrorrists,ok lets even go back 10 years before that..the GULF WAR,AMERICA INVADED IRAQ RIGHT...beofre that who was branded terrorists...i have seen many movies(MADE IN AMERICA)protraying terrorism,suicide bombings,the PENTAGON always a target..then 911 HAPPENS,COINCIDENCE!!!I ACTUALLY SMELL A BIG FAT RAT IN THIS STORY,YES,THE USA....

      slojam - 2011-07-26 11:35

      @Risen Ape - 1stly, your name bears testimony to your lack of normal human intelligence. Get this into your brain - Islam has FIVE pillars! Thats it. There is NO sixth pillar! @Parko - Every religion has something at odds with other religion and that is why there are so many different religions. That should be common sense unless you are like ape man above? Example, that Jesus is the Son of God is at odds with other religions. Get the pictcha?

      Risen Ape - 2011-07-26 11:49

      @ slojam It is a recorded fact that Muhammad stated that Jihad is a religious duty for Muslims. Are you denying this? Just give me a Yes or a No. I don't want a whole lot of psycho babble.

      Risen Ape - 2011-07-26 12:06

      @ slojam Here is a small clue to help you make up your mind; Hadith (4:52:44) says that no deed equals Jihad in reward. And elsewhere it states that Jihad is the second best deed, after belief in Allah. Take your time.

      Parko - 2011-07-26 12:13

      @slojam - No thats not true. The Eastern religions, for example, co-exist with other religions, and they don't propagate that their beliefs are the only truth. Get the picture ?

      slojam - 2011-07-26 12:59

      @Risen Ape - It seems like many others here you dont seem to fully understand what Jihad actually is. The term Jihad means 'struggle' and this is done in an effort to practice religion in the face of oppression or persecution. Jihad is NOT a means to provoke aggression but rather a defensive action contrary to what the uneducated are led to believe but the western media that has very limited "blinkered" knowledge of Islam. Based on what I have said, I will leave you to do the math! @Parko - have you really tried these other religion to see exactly what they believe in? So what you are saying is that Buddism or Hinduism have the same beliefs as Christianity?

      Parko - 2011-07-26 14:16

      @slojam - I have read many texts on Buddhism and Hinduism ,and also spoken to people who follow these religions. They don't see their faith as the only truth, they seem to accept that they are other paths to god.I find that in stark contrast to Christianity and Islam.

      slojam - 2011-07-26 15:52

      @Risen Ape - My Muslim brothers and sisters know exactly what TRUE Islam teaches and that is what they believe and yes as with Christianity as in this case with the Mad nut Norwegian you do get the few who tend to twist what the faith preaches and the ignorant public labels the entire religion for their actions. Im glad you get the pictcha dude! You may not admit it but you do... I have driven my point across to you and I now sign off this topic :) Oh... and as for the dingbat ... I will leave that to the APE to sort out!

      umhlopo - 2011-07-27 19:00

      check out pollys comment,that is what malema and the rest of the pollys are doing with the evolutionary retarded masses,they are creating a hatered for the whites to cover up their own theiving and gross mismanagement

  • Gorilla - 2011-07-26 09:18

    Adbullah, I think the whole world sees this guy as a "terrorist" The general consensus is that he is a militant right wing extremist and in the same mould as your militant muslim extremist. I have not seen one news report from any broadcaster that states otherwise.

      Paco7 - 2011-07-26 10:52

      that's because u a gorilla,now go back to the jungle where u belong

      Gorilla - 2011-07-26 10:56

      Paco7. What an enlightening submission. Quite unique in fact. You are a monument to brainless and ballbreakingly mindless input.

      Sharief - 2011-07-26 11:46

      ISLAM IS NOT MILITANT EXTREMISTS,ISLAM DOES NOT HATE OTHER PEOPLE,ISLAM DOES NOT PROMOTE VIOLONCE,ISLAM IS ALL ABOUT PEACE,PEOPLE HAS PAINTED ISLAM AS VIOLENT..I STUDIED ISLAM SINCE THE AGE OF 5,NOWHERE WERE WE THAUGHT ABOUT EXTREMIST AND VIOLENCE AND SUICIDE BOMBIMGS,SO IT SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE BELIEVES THE DEVIL BEFORE THEY WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH...THE TRUE MEANING OF JIHAD IS FROM WITHIN ONES SELF,TO PROCLAIM JIHAD ON UR OWNSELF,MEANING SPIRITUAL AND NOT PHYSICAL VIOLONCE AGAINST OTHERS,THE WEST HAS BEEN FIGHTING WARS WAY BEFORE SEP 911,THE WEST HAS THE BEST MILITARY WEAPONS AND AIR PLANES,AMERICA EVEN USED NUCLEAR WEAPONS.ISLAM IS PURE AND YES IT DOES TEACH US ABOUT PEACE TOWARDS OTHERS,YET AMERICA CREATED AL QAEDA,OSAMA BIN LADIN,AND SINCE 2001 ALL OF A SUDDEN ISLAM IS TERRORISTS,IF THIS IS THE CASE THEN HOWCOME MUSLIMS HAVE NOT BEEN KILLING PEOPLE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME..some food for thaught,everything thats happening today is revealed in the HOLY QURAAN,its said that the Muslims will suffer at first,BUT ITS PROMISED THAT WE WILL BE VICTORIUS!!ALLAH -U-AKBAR(GOD IS GREAT)

      Sharief - 2011-07-26 11:55

      @GRANT...You ask the question if the same can be said about Muslim grouPs after SEP 9/11...I ASK YOU THIS QUESTION,HAS ANYBODY BEEN FORMALY CHARGED FOR 9/11,DID THE MUSLIM WORLD ADMIT TO THE BOMBINGS,HOW CAN YOU BE SURE THAT A MUSLIM GROUP DONE IT,AND NO WE NOT TALKING ABOUT AL QUEDA,CAUSE THEY BELONG TO THE CIA

      pierreedge - 2011-07-26 12:29

      Grant, from reading comments written on the articles related to the attack, i'm afraid you cant say that This guys actions are being openly condemned by all and sundry.... Many are trying to excuse his actions by agreeing with his motive unfortunately... Scary but true

      JohannV - 2011-07-26 15:20

      Sharief, in the Bible God makes the promise to His people that THEY will inherit the earth and the Kingdom of Heaven. And the Bible is oh, quite a few hundred years older than the Q'Uran. The Bible also prophesies the persecution of believers and suffering in the end times. Any comment?

      Risen Ape - 2011-07-26 16:44

      Abdullah Saeed, nearly all my comments have been deleted so I have to keep re-posting this question. How many letters have you written to Media24 condemning Muslim violence?

  • IandI - 2011-07-26 09:20

    Eish, there journalists drag religion into it without checking their facts first! A terrorist is a Terrorist, no matter what race/colour/religion. Problem is one man's terrorist could be another's freedom fighter. In this case, however this Norwegian seems to be pure terrorist.

  • JTee! - 2011-07-26 09:21

    I couldn't agree more.

      kolobe - 2011-07-26 12:34

      white media has always proved to be a joke

      Risen Ape - 2011-07-26 16:44

      Abdullah Saeed, nearly all my comments have been deleted so I have to keep re-posting this question. How many letters have you written to Media24 condemning Muslim violence?

      BiTe__Me - 2011-07-27 13:31

      kolobe are you jealous that you are not white? I get the idea that you sit around 24/7 thinking about white people. That's just sad man. Get a life.

  • Muhammed Abad - 2011-07-26 09:28

    Abdullah, As a fellow Muslim, I would agree with your opinions, but to a certain extent. If you take a look at the vast amount of violence in some heavily populated Islamic countries, attacks like these occur almost weekly. Muslims in these countries have unfortunately built up a reputation for violence and terrorist acts, which are pounced upon by the media as a religious act, rather than a political one or whatever the cause might have been. This way, peace keeping Muslims all over the world are branded as violent terrorists. The faith of the Norwegian attacker is an issue that should never be raised, by the media or yourself. How can we expect to move forward if we turn this into a mud slinging contest ?

      Epicurius - 2011-07-26 10:03

      If his faith and its teachings, or even his skewed interpretation of the teachings, was used as justification for his actions then it is entirely relevant. It is high time people stop being allowed to deflect relevant criticism on the basis of their religion, when their religious beliefs and dogmas are the main factor, or at least a contributing factor to the atrocities they commit. Religion has always enjoyed this privileged status and that is part of the problem.

      Maddy-CT - 2011-07-26 10:13

      @ Muhammed Abad. This is so true. What disturbs me is that these frequent suicide bombings and acts of terrorism in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. have killed thousands of Muslims, and yet the reports of these mass killings are relegated to a small paragraph on the inside pages of the newspapers, and there appears to be no international outrage or condemnation. Contrast that to the reaction to and the media coverage of the Norwegian event, which is probably because it is unusual and Norway is a liberal, pacifist country. I think we have been shaken out of our comfort zones by the Norwegian event, but have we become desensitised to the deaths of innocent Muslims? Terrorism and the death of innocent civilians must be strongly condemned no matter where it happens.

      Almaki - 2011-07-26 10:31

      @Epicurius: Question - do you then consider capitalism and greed relevant to the USA invading Iraq?

      Hester - 2011-07-26 10:33

      Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I understand Islam is that politics and religion ARE intertwined aka Sharia law. Therefor all political uprisings are inherently religious. In my opinion that is why all "peace keeping Muslims all over the world are branded as violent terrorists" - because muslims value sharia law above any other law. The other question I respectfully pose is: where is the outrage in the Islam communities when all the well publisized attrocities happen? Why do they not speak up? If they are truely "peace keeping" then there should be mass tributes to the victims (as we can see is the case in Norway) after each and every bombing/killing/hanging/stoning etc.

      Grant - 2011-07-26 11:17

      Muhammaed - I like your post, and appreciate the fact that you can see how/why generalisations occur. I agree that a rotten few are tarnishing your religion, but what exaggerates that problem is the silence of muslim groups (although not all). If a "Christian" decides to kill a bunch of innocent people, and defend his actions as the "will of God", Christian communities will stand against this. They know that life is for God to give and take, and they know that Christians are supposed to live peaceful, caring lives. Christian groups would immediately close the door on any claims that the actions were religiously justified. If Muslim groups openly announced that they do not regard Muslim extremists as Muslim, as they fail to follow your religious teachings, the Muslim religion would be a lot more credible to others...

      Phantom - 2011-07-26 11:23

      Hester, you are right.

      Epicurius - 2011-07-26 11:31

      @ Almaki - Yes. Quite relevant.

  • vinchainsaw - 2011-07-26 09:28

    Abdullah, the initial reports were maybe such in the Sun but the media very quickly labelled him a Christian fundamentalist. Not everybody is picking on Muslims.

  • mengelbrecht1 - 2011-07-26 09:33

    The argument is a non event. He isn't a Muslim, however he has been descibed as a Christian Fundamentalist and a Right Winger by the media. Its the same as saying if was German then he was a Nazi.

  • HorusZA - 2011-07-26 09:34

    You seriously blame the western media for initially assuming that the attack was perpetrated by Islamic fundamentalists given the fact that the vast majority of terror attacks are? Maybe when they stop flying planes into buildings, blowing up embassies and condemning various authors to death the rest of the world will stop jumping to conclusions.

      Muhammed Abad - 2011-07-26 09:47

      Seriously... Was Islam / any muslim ever tried and found guilty of 9/11 ? I think not. Get your facts straight.

      Paralegal - 2011-07-26 09:55

      @Horus, you are working on the assumption that they did actually fly planes into buildings - which is highly debatable. I really think that the West has been brainwashed into assuming that every terrorist act is perpetrated by a Muslim. I'm not saying that there aren't plenty of Muslim extremists but there are also Christian extremists and even a cult in Japan called Aum Shinrikyo (renamed Aleph) who gassed a whole bunch of people not so long ago. I think what the author is trying to say is that we should not always immediately assume that these things are done by Muslims - get the facts first.

      LexLuther - 2011-07-26 09:57

      At Muhammed: Are you seriously suggesting that 9/11 was not the responsibilty of muslim extremists under the banner of al-kaeda? I suppose you think it was a Zionist conspiracy? IDIOT!

      cdp - 2011-07-26 10:02

      Mr Abad, you can not be serious, really, you can not be serious! I think your approach is why everyone else thinks the way they think, rather than standing up against what happened at the twin towers, you try to blame shift? Btw, go look at all the muslim countries in the world, draw a circle around them, and then do the same with conflict areas, what do you see, mmm...

      Muhammed Abad - 2011-07-26 10:08

      @ CDP - I agree with you fully. The point I am trying to make was that religion is often blamed, as opposed to the individuals that carry out these acts. Did not mean to offend anyone, so sorry

      Zee - 2011-07-26 10:19

      Horus - it is exactly the media's constant jumping to conclusions that is only fuelling more extremism. You did nothing wrong, someone accuses you of it = you get angry. Even before 9/11 there was an agenda. Anyone remember Tim McVeigh? The Americans were 100% convinced it was an Islamic extremist, and it turned out to be one of their own - a hick from Oklahoma!

      Almaki - 2011-07-26 10:33

      @Verbatim: I don't agree with Muhammed, but you will notice that he mentioned not yet "found guilty", and your example simply lists a man who has been charged but not yet convicted.. Read carefully before starting the name-calling.

      Verbatim - 2011-07-26 10:53

      Almaki - he admitted to planning the entire operation. Guilty as charged. He further admitted to beheading Daniel Pearl.

      cdp - 2011-07-26 13:55

      Muhammed, I 100% agree with you on that. But we all do it, we blame the crusaders for invading the middle east, the muslim guys of all being terrorists, the whites for being racist, the blacks for not wanting to work, the mixed race people of being drunks, and so on. Mostly this is completely groundless and based on minority events. My only issue is that in countries where there is a muslim majority, they kill any non follower, you dont get that in europe or the usa. I think my little outburst and your follow up just shows how polarising the media can be. In the end I believe that 99% of people just want to be happy and go home to their families, what does the rest really matter??

  • zaatheist - 2011-07-26 09:37

    I agree with you. He is a Christian terrorist. The bible also encourages extremist fundamentalist believers to perpetrate violence. And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16 If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT) As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

      Stuka - 2011-07-26 10:07

      Even atheists have blood on their hands. Stalin, Karl Marx was atheists. What you have mentioned above happened more than 2000 years ago in an age where war's was as common as smash and grab's are today. What excuse did Stalin and Marx use to murder millions of people less than a hundred years ago except to rid the world of all religions and impose their form of believe or rather unbelief? People kill people and any form of religion or doctrine will be used and manipulated to suit a single person's cause. Miss quoting the Bible out of context is rather getting stale.

      DW - 2011-07-26 10:17

      zaatheist, every single one of these verses are from the old testament, so could just as easily be used for a Jewish fundamentalist if that is what you are trying to use as your foundation. You clearly have a problem with Christians and with no other faith. Why would that be? Fighting your own internal battles in your soul, are you?

      Zee - 2011-07-26 10:19

      @PikeLee - but you all remain silent when the Holy Quran is constantly misquoted? Why the silence then and the noise now?

      PikeLee - 2011-07-26 10:30

      @zee, sorry zee, I do not know the Quran, thus I have no authority to comment on it.

      RobbedZombie - 2011-07-26 10:43

      @Stuka, for f%$#k sakes man, stop talking about Karl Marx. You have no idea who this man was or what he even did.

      zaatheist - 2011-07-26 10:44

      @NewTestament BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I just love it when Christians selectively discard those parts of the infallible word of god they now find embarrassing. When it suits them express hatred for gays based on the Old Testament. When it suits them they eat shellfish and wear cloth of mixed fibres. When it suits them they parade the ten commandments. When it suits them they brainwash kiddies with Noah stories. Jesus was supposed to have said "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill" - Matthew 5:17/ Clue for Christians - read the Old testament.

      PikeLee - 2011-07-26 10:58

      I am not going to argue with you zaatheist, you can argue with the pope if you want to go into philosophy and dogma. All you have to know is that Jesus loves you, and he has a plan for you.

      JMan - 2011-07-26 11:03

      I fully agree with zaatheist on this one. (Many)Christians often use only the part pf the bible that suits them, when it suits them, and as it suits them.

      Stuka - 2011-07-26 11:09

      @RobbedZombie, jeez sorry dude I did not realise he is such an idol to you? I did make formal a apology higher up on the thread...and relax man it's only Thuesday...

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-07-26 11:44

      Stuka: Reality check - christian groups are right now rallying to have legislation passed in Uganda to execute gay people, and imprison those who "enable" their lifestyle (sell, rent property, give healthcare etc) We're not talking about some mad African dictator's idea here. MP David Bahati (driven by the backing of the super influential American, yes AMERICAN christian organization The Family) is dead set on getting this bill passed. So, if you want to say that the crusades (let's forget about those other "god ordered" missions like apartheid/the holocaust/inquisition) happened 2000 years ago and that christians are now minding their own business as a peace loving and tolerant group...then best you go and do a bit more homework about what's happening in the word TODAY.

      Phantom - 2011-07-26 11:56

      Zaatheist, you clearly like to make fun of the Bible and Christians' faith in it. I think deep inside, you are a very bitter person. I see it this way. The Bible needs to be seen as a whole, OT and NT. It's a pity that even many Christians don't do that. The Bible contains instructions, but also prophecies, history, etc. You can tell me the Bible says ... and ... Alright, but the Bible also says ... and ... You see, it needs to be seen as a whole. Remember the dialogue between Christ and Satan. So what if the Bible contains violent scriptures? It does not embarrass me. That does not mean I will use violence against anyone, because there are also the Ten Commandments and Jesus' love.

      Phantom - 2011-07-26 12:21

      Some Muslim users of News24 would know that I am sometimes critical of Islam. I don't want to act like a hypocrite and deny it. Moreover, my comments are not meant to offend (tell me if that is the case), but rather to debate, get answers, opinions, etc. It is great to see many Muslims denounce violence in the name of their religion. In fact, only a small number of Muslims are involved in terrorism compared to the entire Muslim population. My issues with Islam are more on the Shariah side, like Dhimmitude, Jizya, etc.

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-26 13:34

      @ Zaatheist - to put the pork/shellfish thing to bed once and for all: Acts 10:13-15 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. @ PikeLee and DW - agreed. I was a raging atheist, I used to sit in RI class making blasphemous drawings and mocked Christians, then later in life I got saved and became one :-) and the atheists who get born again are usually the most vocal ones! To be fair I have seen ZAatheist comment on other religions, but about 90% of the time it's specifically against Christianity. When someone displays such repeated hatred of Christianity, chances are they are TRYING to deny the existence of a God. They know there is one out there, they just don't want to accept it. Jesus is waiting to be accepted by you brother... and while accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour won't get you many thumbs-up on this site, it'll guarantee you a spot in heaven :-D

      JMan - 2011-07-26 15:06

      What many of you fail to grasp is that the bible was actually written by humans...and not some wise all-knowning being in the sky. You might as well quote JRR Tolken.

      rantoftheday - 2011-07-26 15:14

      @Matt And what will a belief in Allah get me? A spot in heaven? What if I am spiritualist or Hindu?

  • mimo - 2011-07-26 09:37

    Religion has nothing to do with killing.. People are all sick .Don't matter if you Christian ,muslim or a Jew -

  • Watcher - 2011-07-26 09:38

    Good observation Abdullah. The point is that extremism under the guise of religion needs to be condemned by all people.Tolerance and living by your principles is what is called, whether you are guides by the Talmud,Bible, Koran, the teachings of Buddha or what ever. Agree to disagree but terrorist actions like these can never be condoned. Casting aspersions at other peoples religions only serves to harden attitudes. Live by your teachings and our constitution and allow freedom of religion, tempered by justice when deviant, abhorrent behavior such as happened in Norway takes place.

  • Z@R - 2011-07-26 09:45

    people should not just jump to assumptions, but the fact is that when a terrorist attack does occur 99 percent of the time is done by a Islamic fanatic. So on the very odd occasion that a act of terrorism was carried out by some other extremist peoples initial thoughts would jump to a Islamic fundamentalist.

      Z@R - 2011-07-26 09:55

      If a mass terrorist attack were to happen in SA, I think you would be very surprised to see who is blamed 1st...it wont be any of the possibilities that you have mentioned

      PikeLee - 2011-07-26 10:02

      @Poloyatonki funny you say that, I have seen a lot of violence caused by striking workers. Are they all awb or DA?

      croix - 2011-07-26 10:07

      @ Poliodonkey - Get over yourself,you chop! The 'far right' whites in SA are only .0001% of the population and thus no factor at all. Fully 99% of violent acts are perpetrated by your race - put that in your pipe and smoke yourself to death......

      Greegs - 2011-07-26 10:13

      Poly - Trust me, the boere in SA are waiting! You have the numbers, they have the balls and brains, should be a good fight!

      Paco7 - 2011-07-26 10:59

      so accordin to your warped logic,wherever racism happens it is a white man that is responsible...oh wait a minute that is actually true

      JMan - 2011-07-26 11:06

      Poloyatonki... your comments are getting boring and lack substance. Comment on the issues at hand, and stop bringing this SA racist crap into every topic on this forum. It getting old. Have you really nothing contstructive to add on ANY topic besides nourishing your petty black-white-inferiority-complex?

      Buzzbar - 2011-07-26 14:27

      Poly, the only place you'll be going is the white doctor to treat your crabs. Speaking of which, the only thing I think you can shoot (not very accurately either) is your load...

  • PikeLee - 2011-07-26 09:50

    hahaha, a Muslim saying: "The onus is on us as ordinary people to bring about progressive change and to heal the “bleeding world” by promoting dialogue, human rights and universal values" When last did the Taliban or al Qaeda try to "heal the bleeding world" The are terrorists and must be treated as such

      Zee - 2011-07-26 10:21

      So you see the entire 1.5 billion Muslims in the world as Al-Qaeda or the Taliban... may wanna get out more.

      Abdullah Chothia - 2011-07-26 11:34

      I wonder when last Bush, Blair, Sharon, and all their cohorts across the world tried to heal the bleeding world?? Perhaps for a start they can bring prove for the invasion of Iraq - which was illegal and the claim of WMD was false - and bring prove that Al-Qaede was involved for 9/11 or any other 'crime' - isnt the law "innocent until proven guilty". With Muslims it is "guilty, until proven innocent" - why the double standards??

  • Waseef Gool - 2011-07-26 09:53

    It strikes me as mostly sad that people who, for all intense and purposes, appear to be rather intelligent to be so disrespectful and beligerent when it comes to differences. whats even worse is that these people (you guys) are part of a nation that has been attempting to undergo this huge transformation built on multiculturism. it is when we start trully respecting the differences amongst people that we will realise that labelling them using something as sacred as religious belief in a negative way serves no purpose but to alienate one person from another. we are all humans, we bleed the same colour blood, we breathe the same air yet the only thing we see is how different we are. ppl from all walks of life committ all kinds of atrocities!!! Man has since the beginning of time used religion to arm himself with reasons to fight some or other perceived injustice. and history has proven that these acts in the name of God has most times been in the name of a EGO. We should learn the fundamentals that EVERY belief system teaches - RESPECT, PEACE, TOLERANCE. And when we have those we will see that be able to live together co-hesively. Anders Behring Breivik is a crazy man. the unfortunate thing is that most people share his belief to some extent. its not our actions that need to change. its our beliefs that NEEDS to change.

      Waseef Gool - 2011-07-26 10:32

      Perhaps your understanding of the Islamic faith is limited to what has been reported about in the media. The general Muslim population believes that Islam is a religion of peace. Islam is a religion of tolerance, it is a religion of respect. your understanding of the meaning of the term Jihad alone shows your misunderstanding. perhaps your understanding should be based on knowledge that you got from an independant source as opposed to the internet or the media. there are a few groups who have found committing acts under the banner of religion serves their purpose. a few is hardly the majority. if the majority of muslims, which would be 1,1billion ppl (muslim's worldwide total 2,2bil), were infact radicals you would have been in the midst of daily reports of acts of violence and terror. i am a Muslim and am tired of being screened through terrorism. I am in the majority not them - yet you would call me someone who harbours hatered?

      Zee - 2011-07-26 10:32

      @Verbatim - yes, most of us do actually.

      Lacri - 2011-07-26 10:47

      I'm confused - in what way do most people share his belief(s)?

  • Badballie - 2011-07-26 10:04

    Abdullah, you are of course right , however one need to tske the entire history of terrorism into account in order to understand the logic and motivation behind this mind set. American counter terrorist organs of state are on record as saying that "although not all Muslims are terrorists in most cases it is unfortunatelt true to say that all terrorists are muslim. Whether this is in fact true or fair is neither relevant nor important, the message to take home here is that Islamic radical groups have been more active in terror attacks than any other group in history, and the muslim community unfortunately has to accept that they will be scapegoats whenever something like this happens.

      Mebber - 2011-07-27 13:59

      Absolute rubbish.In 2009, in Europe, a fraction of 'terrorist' attacks were carried out by Islamic groups, for example. Don't be brainwashed by the media

      Luapolku - 2011-07-27 14:04

      Why do you conveniently leave out the USA, Britain and Israel as terrorists because then you know the equation will be 99.9 of terrorist attack carried out by non muslims. In your opinion only muslims are terrorists but if The USA kills a million then they are not terrorist's. Is muslim blood inferior you hypocrite.

  • malf*k - 2011-07-26 10:08

    Maybe he will be preaching during his time in 'solitary confinement'...

  • buzz - 2011-07-26 10:16

    Streotypes don't happen by themselves you know

      Waseef Gool - 2011-07-26 10:44

      indeed ... sterotyping happens because of generalising. and generalising is based on too many subjective things for them to be cast in stone

  • mike mason - 2011-07-26 10:26

    I Have travelled around the world,and have visited both muslim and non muslim countries,and believe me i have seen many injustices.I visted Israel two years ago and went to visit a church in Nazereth with my Tourist group.I Witnessed with my own eyes how an IDF solider kept a Christian Monk at the Checkpoint for Five hours for No valid reason.So When a sucide bombers blows a bus in Tel Aviv,i really Can Understand Why..As for the Taliban they are a Group of Rebels Fighting an INVADING Force and for Al Qaeeda i would like to know who they are and who is the leader?? they say usama bin laden,but there is no prove of him,there was a so called Body,but the Americans Dumped it in the SEA..LOL..Hope people can be more open minded.As a christian i have read extensivly about islam and judaism and All the FAITHS DO NOT CONDENE VIOLENCE AND MURDER

      Abdullah Chothia - 2011-07-26 11:35

      Mike, I hope other people can see what you have seen

      Risen Ape - 2011-07-26 15:58

      Hang on a second, lets spell this one out in plain English so we can understand what is being said. Mike Mason (a christian) and Abdullah Chothia (a Muslim) feel that blowing up a bus full of people is justified retaliation for holding up a Monk for 5 hours. Wow!

      Scholar - 2011-07-26 20:20

      Risen Ape - Mike didn't justify bombing a bus full of children but he said he can UNDERSTAND why ?? ie the frustration that would lead to something like this and the continuous humiliation that would lead to a bus full of school kids being blown up. NOT Justifying the act but understand why it is done.

      Abdullah Chothia - 2011-07-27 11:53

      Risen Ape you have proven time and time again that our grasp of English language and grammar is poor. I suggest you re-read what Mike and Scholar have said again. Mike DID NOT and neither did I JUSTIFY violence. And I repeat again - I DO NOT JUSTIFY VIOLENCE

  • Ross - 2011-07-26 10:34

    This guy was reported as a Christian fundamentalist terrorist and is being charged accordingly. Fortunately he did not strap bombs around his 15 years old cousin to blow her and the people around her up.

      Mebber - 2011-07-27 14:03

      So by your logic, it was fortunate that he killed over 80 people, many of whom were the leaders of the future ? You made a good point initially and then just cancelled it by your stupid follow up.

  • RobbedZombie - 2011-07-26 10:37

    Sorry Abdullah, but Islam has done very little to rid itself of this generalization. A single Christian, acting out on his own anger does nothing to remove from memory the atrocities committed in the name of Allah on a regular basis. Barely a week can go by without some bombing or attack being perpetrated by Islamic fundamentalists. And the saddest part is that other Muslims are more often the targets then not. The continued slaughter of others, based simply on their disagreement of the interpretation of Islam, is why Muslims are stereo typed as terrorists. When those, who claim Islam is a religion of peace are finally willing to stand up against those who would murder in their religion's name, then and only then will this change.

  • colincub - 2011-07-26 10:38

    Religion is there so dumb people can find an excuse to justify their idiotic actions.

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-26 13:36

      Atheism is there so that people can do whatever they feel like without judgment.

      rantoftheday - 2011-07-26 15:02

      And Christians are there to bombard us with arrogant, monotheist assumptions that we want their worldview forced upon us.

      Epicurius - 2011-07-26 18:48

      @ Colin - Religious belief, to some extent, does set the scene for justification of actions, in my opinion. I would disagree that all religious people are dumb, nor does one have to be dumb to be religious. While I myself am opposed to religion and consider myself an atheist, there is some fallacy in your post. @ Matt - As an atheist, by no means do I enjoy a guilt free or judgement free hedonistic, anarchistic existence. I have a fully developed conscience and sense of empathy for others. I am, as any person should be, aware of my actions and their potential to cause suffering. I simply do not need the belief in a god to help me determine right from wrong. I will disagree with anybody claiming that due to my atheism, I am somehow more predisposed for imposing suffering on others than a religious person is. At the end of the day, the end result is what is important - conducting ourselves in a manner which minimizes suffering of others. Do I believe religion is used by many people as a crutch? Yes. Do I believe these people may be happier without their belief? Personally, yes. But do I also believe that there are sensible religious people out there whose lives are truly enriched by it? Yes. Do I believe their lives are somehow better than mine and I could only achieve their level of happiness by adopting their beliefs? Now that's where I'll disagree.

      Chillepeppa - 2011-07-27 13:53

      Well said Epicurius...

  • ocon777 - 2011-07-26 10:45

    The Norwegian said he was upholding "Christiandom" WTF is Christiandom??? This was just his initiation ceremony for his bigger role to come. Look how blaze~ he is about the whole thing. Who gives themselves up like that unless they know something is in it for them? There are other forces at work here that aren't being revealed.

  • JMan - 2011-07-26 10:51

    Well you gotta admit...most terrorist attacks these days are conducted by muslims... I'm saying 'most'...not all.

      Paco7 - 2011-07-26 11:07

      that is just your opinion,moron

      JMan - 2011-07-26 11:22

      No, its a fact, moron.

      Zee - 2011-07-26 12:00

      It is a fact, but then again it's also a fact thast the US is responsible for more civilian deaths every year than any other nation on earth. Should we ignore this fact?

      Marcell - 2011-07-26 12:24

      Are we talking about muslims or usa? Your response is a typical muslim response. Always falling back on the usa.

      JMan - 2011-07-26 13:37

      @ Zee. I'm not talking about the USA....as Marcell said...stick to the issue at hand.

      Mr Incognito - 2011-07-26 20:31

      @marcell It seems everyone is dusting demons out so dont hide behind a sleight of hand and keep the USA under safe harbor. Madelaine Allbright justified the slaughter of 250 000 Iraqi children as collateral damage. It was on 60 minutes. Go search for it - its a sight to behold. So dont be such a woes and hrow a tantrum just because you dont like to face up to the fact that even Chrsitians, Athiests, Jews, Hindus, and just about everyone else all kill. Why not share the religious affiliations of all the people reported in the media in general when commenting on a murder/kidnapping/rape etc. Lets try to be honest to ourselves.

      Mr Incognito - 2011-07-26 20:33

      Oh and Marcell - is the article dealing with a fundamentalist Christian in an attempt to revive a crusade, or is this guy Muslim? Lets focus. If that fails, there is Rittalin.

      Luapolku - 2011-07-27 14:02

      Why do you conveniently leave out the USA, Britain and Israel as terrorists because then you know the equation will be 99.9 of terrorist attack carried out by non muslims.

  • yyxx - 2011-07-26 10:54

    It would be nice if we could stop separating each other on the basis of spiritual belief. If you only opened your eyes slightly you would see that all religion and spiritual practices are derived from the same source. The differences originate from cultural and geographical differences. Beyond that, it is foolish to say that one person's actions are representative of that person's choice in belief (even if that person claims so). Their actions represent them and without knowing what was going through that person's mind it is impossible to speculate what caused them to do what they did. We will make accusations and assumptions based on how we want events to fit into our personal realities.

      ocon777 - 2011-07-26 11:52

      Yip, Judaism,Christianity & Islam all have Abraham as one of their forefathers......

      yyxx - 2011-07-26 12:51

      it goes beyond Abraham

  • PikeLee - 2011-07-26 10:56

    @LJ Graey, thank you, I stand corrected

  • Kalabas - 2011-07-26 10:58

    The problem is and has always been RELIGION! Religion needs to make way for spirituality for US to realise that WE'RE ALL OF THE SAME STOCK! TKC!

  • Hugh - 2011-07-26 11:00

    Your arguement is shaky at best. The problem is that the followers of Islam say they are peaceful then again prove reluctant to stand and be counted. For example they seem incapable of holding protests against violent actions taken by Hamas but quick to raise public protest against Israel. Worse still there is little public protest of the maltreatment of Muslims by Hamas within Hamas controlled zones. After 911 for instance Muslims rose en mass as one in praise of the action. Where in minority they did, but where Islam was above the 5 % of population thesehold none protested publically against the waton act of violence. Even here in SA we did not see any public display of disgust on 911 but a lot in defence of Sadam Hussien and anti US policy. Islam has shot itself in the foot but still it gets preferential treatment from all Christian Western governments whereas in the Islamic run countries it is equivelent to a death sentence to attend a christion meeting.

      Paco7 - 2011-07-26 11:09

      it's very easy for you to sit on the fence and make stupid remarks,but if you really want to know of the hardships muslims are facing get on a flight and go to Gaza and spend a few days and when you come back your views will be completely different ...i guarantee it

      Abdullah Chothia - 2011-07-26 11:39

      I suggest you get out of your hole and start seeing the facts out there - stop watching CNN and Sky! If what you say is true about Gaza then why are there time and time again ships being sent from WESTERN countries with Holocaust survivors on board??

  • knalpot - 2011-07-26 11:28

    Newsflash Abdullah, this guy is being charged with Terrorism, try reading the papers, it helps. Besides 99.9 % of this kind of attack is carried out by Muslim extremists so it's easy to make an error every now and again.

      Poloyatonki - 2011-07-26 11:38

      NATO is also a terror group.

      Luapolku - 2011-07-27 14:02

      Why do you conveniently leave out the USA, Britain and Israel as terrorists because then you know the equation will be 99.9 of terrorist attack carried out by non muslims.

  • tailormade - 2011-07-26 11:36

    Don't be fooled by Zeitgeist: 30 years ago such incidents would have been attributed to some deranged communist. Islamic terrorism is the current zeitgeist. The media simply jump on the bandwagon of the current flavour of the month The important thing is that this man's real identity could be established.

  • Phantom - 2011-07-26 12:21

    Some Muslim users of News24 would know that I am sometimes critical of Islam. I don't want to act like a hypocrite and deny it. Moreover, my comments are not meant to offend (tell me if that is the case), but rather to debate, get answers, opinions, etc. It is great to see many Muslims denounce violence in the name of their religion. In fact, only a small number of Muslims are involved in terrorism compared to the entire Muslim population. My issues with Islam are more on the Shariah side, like Dhimmitude, Jizya, etc.

      Paco7 - 2011-07-26 13:09

      think what would happen to this country if you brought Sharia law here,South Africa will be a superpower competing with the US and Europe because we have all the natural resources,the manpower,the climate but the only problem is crime and when u chop a hands off when he steals he will never steal again and when u hang a man for murder or rape he will never do it again....think about it

      ocon777 - 2011-07-26 15:09

      when someone has nothing they are willing to risk the other 3 limb parts he has to go get more. Missing 1 hand = still got 1 hand left and 2 feet to complete his job.

  • Hardegat - 2011-07-26 13:30

    Andwe should aso stand firm against the mental illness that is "progressivism".

  • Matt :-) - 2011-07-26 13:41

    @ Abdullah Saeed - despite the inevitable war of words that ensues on News24 - good piece, salam aikum.

  • shabzinho - 2011-07-26 14:36

    Listen people - no where does it say that muslims go killing people but if someone comes and tries to kill you, unlawfully like steal what is yours, kill your children, take away your land, then you have to react. Killing innocent people etc not allowed. people twist the need for Jihad around. Read the quaran and see what is said about jihad and you will find no where killing innocent people but the need to protect oneself. Islam means peace. Why make assumptions read al quaraan

      ocon777 - 2011-07-26 15:12

      If I remember it correctly, the Quaran says all infidels must die. I understand an infidel is a non Muslim person, so basically all non Muslims must die? Please can a Muslim with the proper knowledge tell me what the score is here? Thanks.

      Mr Incognito - 2011-07-26 20:44

      @ ocon: Please show me where in your flawless memory such a statement is made in the Quran. Be that as it may, Islamic History is illustrative. Despite years of persecution by the Quraysh Tribe, when Muhammed PBUH returned to Makkah with his armies behind him, he could have crushed his enemies. Instead, he entered Makkah peacefully and allowed all people to freely practise their religion. Muslims are commanded to follow Muhammed PBUH as example in their everyday lives. How then is it Islamic to kill people of other religions. I am not the most well-versed Muslim, but at least I know this. And, according to Islamic srciptures, your sins (unless brazenly open) is between you and God. No Muslim can pronounce on the faith of any other person. I dont apologize for my rude commentary. Please understand that your question is not new to this silly website. Almost everyday the same question is posed. If people were to READ as opposed to BEING APOLOGETIC FOR THEIR MEMORIES or LACK OF EDUCATION ABOUT ISLAM, it would help.

      Lanfear - 2011-07-27 11:13

      @ Mr Incognito - you yourself say "Muhammed returned to Makkah with his armies..." yup, with his armies. If he was SO peaceful and allowed everyone their own religion, why did he go to Makkah [Mecca] with armies? Why then did the Muslims invade Persia, Byzantium, Egypt, and so forth and force their religion upon everyone? Why do you think the Crusades started in the first place? Because the emperor Alexios I Komninos of Constantinople in Byzantium begged Pope Urban II for help against the invading Muslims [Seljuq Turks], that's why. If Islam is then so very peaceful as you say, why did they conquer the Levant by force of arms and enforce their religion on everyone? Not that I'm saying they were/are the only ones, Christianity did much the same. Freely practice religion? Are you stupid? Have you even been to an Islamic country or do you sit and worship Allah blissfully in tolerant South Africa without even knowing what the laws of many Islamic countries are regarding the practice of other religions.

  • sickoftheBS - 2011-07-26 14:37

    Poor journalism yes, but, I'm sorry I don't blame the media one bit, that would be treating the symptoms not the cause. I bet this was the first reaction of 80% of all the people who heard about these atrocities! Let's take religion, creed, colour, etc... out of it. Let's us a brand as an analogy and brand recognition. Some of Brand X "members" have been constantly committing horrifying acts for more than 20 years, what is your first impression when you see similar acts occurring? The world has been experiencing violent acts of terrorism perpetrated by Brand X for more than 20 years, and it is now part of our psyche. Until Brand X takes concrete steps to clean up it's image, and those who don't perpetrate or support these acts, stand up to eradicate the cancer within the "organisation", and promote the true values of their brand. Brand X's reputation will remain tarnished. My small piece of advise, stop pointing fingers, take responsibility, if you believe in your brand, make a concerted effort to promote it and specifically DENOUNCE the bad elements within. Quite simply there is no justification for taking INNOCENT human lives, so as long as there are excuses to "justify" the actions and there is no strong condemnation from within the "organisations" own ranks, this image will prevail, it takes seconds to destroy a brand and years to establish. The same applies to both sides of the fence, what is your first impression when Brand USA strikes? Oil?

  • Risen Ape - 2011-07-26 15:50

    Abdullah Saeed, nearly all my comments have been deleted so I have to post this question again. How many letters have you written to Media24 condemning Muslim violence?

      Paco7 - 2011-07-26 15:56

      how many letters have jews written condemning the murders committed by Israeli soldiers,how many letters have americans written condemning atrocities committed by their soldiers ??? zero ,so don't come and be self-righteous here when your *ss stinks of double standards

      Abdullah Chothia - 2011-07-27 11:54

      Paco7, in fact Jews condone and JUSTIFY violence!

      Luapolku - 2011-07-27 14:06

      How many letters have you written condeming the mass murders commited by the US and Nato. You are right you are a ape.

  • Risen Ape - 2011-07-26 16:10

    I'm going to keep on asking you Abdullah Saeed until my comment sticks. How many letters have you written to Media24 condemning Muslim violence?

      Abdullah Chothia - 2011-07-27 11:55

      Your name suggest your lineage goes back to the time of the ape-man

  • kseyffert - 2011-07-26 21:28

    These massacres are to me the best reason in the world for private firearm ownership. When Crazy's get going, they can be stopped fast by anyone in the crowd who is armed and willing to defend themselves. Fact is that most people would not choose to own firearms. fair enough, their choice. when the law does not allow it though then the crazies can do what they want... As for the guys being disturbed and therefore not responsible, go whistle. He was killing innocent people and had to be stopped fast.... The only people who need to fear an armed citenzenry are despotic governments. Enough said...

  • Jakkals - 2011-07-27 08:30

    Is dit nie die "geloof" wat met dogtertjies van 8 trou nie??? En hulle vrouens soos honde behandel nie? En die arme vroue se oe mag skaars wys?? SIEK!!!!

      Lanfear - 2011-07-27 11:00

      Nee Jakkals, jy het actually 'n wan-indruk van Islam. Ons sal liewers ook nie oor Christianity en sommige ander gelowige en hulle gebruike praat nie.

      Abdullah Chothia - 2011-07-27 11:57

      Jakkals ek is jammer om te se dat jou inligting oor Islam nie korrek is nie en dat dit korrespondeer met Westerse en anti-Islamikie retories.

      babe007 - 2011-07-27 12:41

      No offense but I agree with Jakkals. U guys r here in SA where marrying young girls of 8 years and 9 years is not allowed, but it does happen abroad. That is just plain wrong... be glad you and your daughters are SA nationals!

      Paco7 - 2011-07-27 12:53

      julle dronkies is die honde wat moer julle vrouens as julle dronk raak,jy weet niks van muslims nou hou jou bek

  • theratlady - 2011-07-27 12:02

    "When perpetrators are not Muslims, the crime is often not given the “terrorism” tag and will be dismissed as a one-off incident, or it is a disturbed gunman".....This is true because this is exactly what a non muslim bomber is .These bombings are isolated events and they are far an few between and committed by clever but unstable minded people. Bombings by muslim fanatics are ongoing , premeditated ,carefully planned acts of war on humanity that occur on a weekly/ monthly basis.

      Luapolku - 2011-07-27 14:09

      Why do you conveniently leave out the USA, Britain and Israel as terrorists because then you know the equation will be 99.9 of terrorist attack carried out by non muslims. What is the reason rat speak up rat, why are only muslims terrorist's but when a million times worse is committed by the USA and co you go in your rat hole.

  • mike mason - 2011-07-27 14:06

    Yesterday i added my comments to this forum and as i read the comments,I see alot of comments where people are convinced muslims are terrorists,and maybe they are....but i prefer to call them Freedom Fighters.After a trip to Israel i have seen how the Palestians/Arabs there are suffering.Please Understand that The Arabs there are also Christian(i think of them as the originals) Unfortunetly they dont Put up a Fight against the Israelis and are Suffering for this.but the shame is actually on us.YES ON 2Billion Christians,because we doing Nothing to support and Help them.Believe it or Not,the MUSLIM so called "TERRORISTS" are coming to there aid in Palestine.

  • FACT - 2011-07-27 16:28

    Abdullah Saeed, please get over yourself...

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