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'I support Mogoeng Mogoeng'

2011-09-07 09:05

Dear Editor,

The fact that the Chief Justice elect comes from the grassroots of our nation is the primary asset that will transform the judiciary, promote access to justice for the poor of this country and help to reduce the crime rate.

There are far too many academic opinions filtering into Africa from Western minds and as it is today, it is obvious that these positions have been more theoretical than helpful.

Any Judge who is in the constitutional court should be able to lead it. If Mogoeng was not disqualified in the first place to be a Constitutional Court Judge, it is spurious argument, mere politicking and sentimental to postulate that he is incapable of leading the Judiciary.

Having proved that he has no relationship with President Jacob Zuma, CJ elect brings something special to the table that must not be ignored. His grassroots upbringing, the transformation of the Judiciary which he initiated while in Mafeking makes him the voice of the voiceless and the one who carries the hope of the marginalised poor of South Africa Society.

The other challenging issue in this debate is that the gay and lesbian community seems to have concluded that anyone who sits in public office must sympathise with their course and must be approved by them. It is not enough for the person to uphold constitutional rights but such a fellow must either be from their camp or have publicly expressed an unreserved sympathy for their course. Where does that leave or lead the other South Africans who do not want gays and lesbians hurt but also do not want their values superimposed on the society.

All the political parties opposing this nomination must know that collectively they still do not represent the majority.

President Zuma has made a choice based on his philosophy that development and transformation must be visible at the grassroots and a wide majority of South Africans support this decision.

Sylvia van der Veen

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Comments
  • Felix - 2011-09-07 09:14

    For a second there I thought you were his brassiere.

      cliffarc - 2011-09-07 09:34

      - And you can trust Zuma's philosophies , choices and his appointments of personnel in key positions ? Bheki Cele anyone ?

      IandI - 2011-09-07 10:36

      In the long run the onus is on the judge to prove to all that he's is not a moegoe. We wait in anticipation.

      I Like Everything - 2011-09-07 11:02

      I like this comment.. I would also like to add that this appointment sets a dangerous precedent in the legal profession. To be become Chief Justice is the ultimate goal among many within the profession, what this appointment suggests is that in order to become Chief Justice, one no longer has work one's way up the hierarchy. Moseneke was the best candidate the last time he was overlooked and this remains the case at present. This decision is especially confusing since now would have also been the ideal time to put one of the (very competent) woman judges into this position, such as Skweyiya, who clearly deserves her place at the summit of our judicial system

      Delusion - 2011-09-07 11:40

      Judge Mogoeng’s God wants him to be appointed as Chief Justice (according to Judge Mogoeng). If so,we can confidently assume that his imaginary friend / master will alsoinfluence his judgement. And this in worrying. I can only imagine that ChiefJudge in Iran also believes that Allah himself wants him in the job... N0, save this country from a creeping theocracy. Dear Judge Mogoeng: You can safely assume that you havecreated God in your own image if it turns out that your God likes all the samepeople, politicians and judgements that you like. Are you really the best legal mind that this country can produce?If not, stand back. If so, God forbid...

      George - 2011-09-07 12:40

      Good points Sylvia. All the combined noises against Mogaoeng are a work of a bitter minority. DA must instead concertrate on appointing people of colour into their ranks. Helen Zille appointed an all white male cabinet after the elections and refused to budge. Mogoeng has more experience than Moseneke. Moseneke was never a judge before being appointed into the constitutional court while Mogoeng was already heading a division of Judges. Where is the fairness of it all. How many judgements has Moseneke written in his life? Moseneke would look clean because he has never been in the legal trenches the same as Mogeoeng. If you have been a soldier in the battlefield, you will have wounds and scars to show. Moseneke was a political appointee by Mbeki and never, dirtied himself on the judicial battlefield hence his lack of judicial scars.

      I Like Everything - 2011-09-07 13:07

      @George.. I like how you display your your ignorance by suggesting Moseneke to be a political appointee.. It would be difficult for any member of the ANC to appoint a leading PAC member into such a high position. However, Mbeki knew that Moseneke was highly intelligent and would serve his role with the integrity it requires.. Also, Moseneke has overseen some of the most important judgments in this country's history, as well as writing some of these judgments. Mogoeng has written four relatively low-profile judgments as a CC judge and has admitted that writing is not his strong point. If writing is not your strong point how can you expect to adequately serve your duties as Chief Justice?

      @ - 2011-09-07 13:50

      Mogoeng wanting to be chief justice but not liking to write or look in a dictionary for words he doesn't understand... is like wanting to be a jockey but not liking horses or wanting to use reins...

      Denise - 2011-09-08 02:57

      Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng. Yes, that’s his real name…it is in fact not a joke or the sounds he makes from the bench. In one case he said that a 14yr rape victim did not look distressed as she wasn’t limping so he gave the rapist a lenient sentence. His most controversial judgment was the 1988’s verdict when he awarded the death penalty to a man who was not properly defended by his lawyers. The other controversial verdict related to a man who tortured his girlfriend by tying her to his car & dragging her for 50meters. Mogoeng sentenced only a fine of R4000 saying the man was provoked by his girlfriend. In yet another case, he suspended a 5yr jail sentence to the offender who tried to rape his wife by strangling her, saying that the woman was surprised by her husband’s love making technique. In another instance, a man was initially sentenced 10yrs for raping his wife, who was 8mnths pregnant, in front of another person. While upholding the conviction, Mogoeng reduced the sentence to 5yrs on the grounds that "the nature of the complainant & appellant's relationship is such that it renders their intercourse incapable of being legally categorised as rape" Legal experts point out that he was mistaken - at the time marital rape was deemed illegal under the Family Violence Act of 1993 He explained the reduced sentence saying the couple had been "lovers for 7yrs" & "the assault was not serious" How anybody can think this man will be a suitable judge, boggles the mind!

      Denise - 2011-09-08 02:58

      This judge BTW is a pastor in the charismatic Christian sect, Winners Chapel, which opposes abortion & believes homosexuality is a “perversion” & that Christianity can “cure” - views that are in direct conflict with our constitution.

  • GT - 2011-09-07 09:15

    Just hope you don't end up in front of him with a complex legal case. Your worries about transformation will be quickly tossed out the window and you will want the best, most experienced legal brain considering the facts.

  • BakkieB - 2011-09-07 09:21

    @Sylvia "The fact that the Chief Justice elect comes from the grassroots of our nation is the primary asset that will transform the judiciary, promote access to justice for the poor of this country and help to reduce the crime rate." How???????????? all I ask about your opening statement is HOW????? Please explain.

      I Like Everything - 2011-09-07 11:04

      I like it when people just use one question mark.

      Daemos1 - 2011-09-07 12:18

      lol

  • Stefanus - 2011-09-07 09:26

    Sylvia did you miss the part about him hearing voices. He said God told him he should take the job. What happens if God tells him to impose a light sentence? Or a harsh sentence? Or do you think God only chats to him about cars and the weather?

      suzy - 2011-09-07 11:16

      Ag bokkie, do you even know what the CC does? Sentencing ain't really a part of it. It's mostly about the c.o.n.s.t.i.t.u.t.i.o.n

      Almaki - 2011-09-07 13:49

      Ag suzy, do you even understand why people are concerned about his possible appointment? It's about e.x.p.e.r.i.e.n.c.e and i.m.p.a.r.t.i.a.l.i.t.y.

      @ - 2011-09-07 13:59

      suzy... mogoeng has shown no respect for and little knowledge of the c.o.n.s.t.i.t.u.t.i.o.n.... In Chapter Two of the Constitution Section 10 Human dignity, states: Everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected. Section 12: Freedom and security of the person, states: 1. Everyone has the right to freedom and security of the person, which includes the right a. not to be deprived of freedom arbitrarily or without just cause; b. not to be detained without trial; c. to be free from all forms of violence from either public or private sources; d. not to be tortured in any way; and e. not to be treated or punished in a cruel, inhuman or degrading way. 2. Everyone has the right to bodily and psychological integrity, which includes the right a. to make decisions concerning reproduction; b. to security in and control over their body; and c. not to be subjected to medical or scientific experiments without their informed consent. Section 28. Children, further staes: 3. Every child has the right d. to be protected from maltreatment, neglect, abuse or degradation;

      @ - 2011-09-07 14:02

      So how does saying a woman deserved to be dragged by a car because she provoked him show respect for and knowledge of the constitution? or of letting a rapist off because the injuries to a 7-year-old girl were not "serious enough"? Mogoeng has admitted he does not like reading... chances are he has not yet even read through the constitution once...

      Neles - 2011-09-07 14:36

      lol @ag bokkie

  • Charles Kane - 2011-09-07 09:31

    Do really think the ANC represents "the majority"? Witness all the infighting. They get the majority of the votes because they try to be all things to all people but in the process they end up representing no one at all.

  • Ngqeku - 2011-09-07 09:35

    At last someone speaks some sense. The notion that black people have to prove themselves three times harder than whites is flawed. The guy is already a judge,worked hard to be where he is. Give him a break

      BakkieB - 2011-09-07 09:41

      @Ngqeku...give him a break? You got to be joking. This is the chief justice of the counrty, not some magistrates court in Poffadder. As far as the colour of his skin is concerned, does that make him a better judge?

      Willie_G - 2011-09-07 09:54

      Giving him a break and giving him SA's top legal position are 2 completely different things. Regardless of race, gender or culture competency and suitability for the position must be preferential.. Not historical significance!!

      tailormade - 2011-09-07 09:58

      Hallo, anybody home??? Moseneke is black as well.....and everybody (except Zuma) supports his nomination!!!! FYI: it's not white criticism we're seeing here.....it's pretty much consensus criticism.

      Bloodbane_3 - 2011-09-07 10:05

      @Ngqeku - his views on rape must fit right up your alley then. Since you support him so much must we infer that you are planning something or have already committed an act and are hoping he can save you?

      Marietjie - 2011-09-07 10:06

      I agree. Having been lambasted and pubicly grilled in the media for weeks, he has proven to the JC that he exhibits and possesses of the quality, compentency and stature required for the position. Let him be!

      Nkalakatha - 2011-09-07 10:22

      @Ngqeku: There are more competant Black Judges to choose from and to appoint then this Judge !!

      GT - 2011-09-07 10:44

      The better candidate is ALSO BLACK!!

      Peter Annenberg - 2011-09-07 10:48

      He probably stole his certificate which he got in a lucky packet from the OK bazaars!!!

      Ngqeku - 2011-09-07 10:59

      This whole furore is political and is used by those against the ANC to sow divisions in the ruling party. It will not happen.Zuma has not done anything wrong,its his choice of nomination who also passed the JSC tests.

      The_Realist - 2011-09-07 11:05

      Ngqeku, the ruling 'putty' is perfectly capable of sowing their own divisions!

      Bloodbane_3 - 2011-09-07 11:28

      @Ngqeku - this has nothing to do with feeling about the ANC, this has to do with a judge getting a position he should not be in.... based on his judgements of rape case's he should not be a judge at all!

      Johannes Viljoen - 2011-09-07 12:06

      Ngqeku, dude the fact is these guys would complain about any CJ nominated by the Pres.Let me enlighten you guys a little about the law, as some of you sound lay: Section 174(3) of the Constitution provides as follows: The President as head of the national executive, after consulting the Judicial Service Commission and the leader of parties represented in the National Assembly, appoints the Chief Justice and the Deputy Chief Justice and, after consulting the Judicial Service Commission, appoints the President and Deputy President of the Supreme Court of Appeal. Zuma's only flaw was in the manner in which the CJ was nominated, but to say on experience etc the nominated CJ is a bad choice is a bit harsh. It seems that most of you don't see clearly, I want you to bear in mind a prior CJ Arthur Chaskelson (briliant legal mind) and his experience prior to becoming the CJ. Why I support this nominated, its no because his black or whatever, but I think his good, before you all judge him I need to refer you to the following cases read it, he was the presiding officer there and understand what makes hom a good candidate: 1. The State v Lazarus Booi & Another 2005 (1) SACR 599 (B) 2. Walter BAlatseng v The State 2005 (1) SACR 28 (B) 3. BMW Financial Services (South Africa) (Pty) Ltd v Dr M.B Mulaudzi Inc 2009(3) SA 348 BPD 4. Malachi v Cape Dance Acadamy International (Pty) Ltd and Others (3) BCLR 276 (CC) read it before you make up your mind, based on what you read in news!

      Stryder - 2011-09-07 13:02

      @Ngqeku- Make up your mind is it because he is black or is it political?

  • IC1 - 2011-09-07 09:37

    @Sylvia: You are intitaled to your opinion, however I think you are very far off the mark with it, and it's a concern

  • Richie - 2011-09-07 09:39

    I am at a loss for words? WTF do you know about the law... have you been to our African neighbours (from here to Nigeria). In Africa the law is just another tool used to abuse power by politicians and the elite ... it has NOTHING to do with justice. That’s what happens when you take intellect out of the law. Do you have any idea how pathetic some of the judges in our courts are... they often don’t even understand the content of the case. I have seen courts erupt in laughter as the judge reads his judgement. Big corporations and business are relying more and more on arbitration as they don’t trust the courts, but unfortunately our citizens don’t have that choice. Why don’t you go live in Zimbabwe you st*pid c@w and see what happens when politicians corrupt the courts.

      Johannes Viljoen - 2011-09-07 12:23

      What do you know about the law? big corporation and business do arbitration and mediations as it makes more economic sense. Dude, but they still have to rely on Courts say for instance where an Arbitration Award is issued for example in a Labour dispute, for which they would go to the Labour Court for an s158 application to make the said award an order of court. What do you know about the law? In which case did the laughter happen where the judgment was read, enlighten me? what do you know about the law? our constitution, which is commended world wide provides that everyone has a right to express themselves, and yet you out of ignorance call this lady a cow when she expresses herself. DUDE WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE LAW

      Richie - 2011-09-07 14:18

      My wife is lawyer and I have many friends that are advocates/lawyers. Whom I see often and swop stories in horror with, over what happens in their courts. The laughter, happened in my cousins court where the judge, read his argument and everybody stood confused and then broke into laughter, the judge then said; It's because I'm black. & my cousins co council, (very competent black lawyer) said; NO, its because your stupid and out of your depth. Regarding, business moving their disputes to mediation, rather than through the courts was a major issue in the news a while ago, as the black advocates and judges claimed that "business" was racist for doing this... it was all over the news a year or two ago??? Anyway, if the judiciary goes, everything goes. AND that is FACT!

      Johannes Viljoen - 2011-09-07 14:26

      Dude let your wife thn educate you more!!!! I have been a juris for a long time now. I KNOW THE LAW!!! So pampoen gaan vertel die nonsense wat jy praat vir mense netso dom soos jy

      Johannes Viljoen - 2011-09-07 14:31

      Yet again you did not refer me to a citation dude!! U have law friends and now you know the law?????? hahahahahahahaha I've been in SA courts for over 15 years now, but hey a lay person like yourself knooooows the law hahahahahahahahahah

      Denise - 2011-09-08 03:24

      Western justice is wasted on Africa. I have always maintained that forcing blacks to accept the Roman Dutch law system is morally wrong & racist. It is racial supremacism of the worst order. Blacks in Africa had a law system for thousands of years that they were happy with. In their law system, they buy wives with cows, & if you steal a black man’s cows, he kills you. Judgment in disputed cases was handed down by a council of elders. There were no prisons or mental institutions. Punishment was meted out by beating someone to within an inch of his life or death. Who are we to come along & tell blacks that what they are doing is wrong & that our system is better… & that they should accept our Western Law system? We cannot force our law system on them. Just like we cannot force our religion or education system, our lifestyle, our government system or anything on a people who do not want it. The best thing to do, is to let them be. To have nothing to do with them. Blacks should govern themselves & judge & punish themselves with no interference from whites or anyone else for that matter. The thing is that blacks should also not deny whites those same rights of governing themselves. They should live on their own & we on our own. Our cultures, religions, law & education systems are simply worlds too far apart to ever be acceptable to the other. Forcing these two worlds together is like two planets colliding. It can only lead to a cataclysm of universal proportions.

  • Pheasant Plu - 2011-09-07 09:54

    Pres Zuma has a philosophy that goes beyond self interest? Lmao :)

  • tailormade - 2011-09-07 09:56

    Sylvia, What concerns me about your argument is that you confuse sentimental rhetoric with rationality: Upholding our constitution does not equate agreeing with it! By upholding the equal rights of homosexual and lesbian individuals, a person is not saying that they agree and/or disagree with it. This judge did not uphold the equal rights of homosexual/lesbian individuals by not even bothering to clarify his minority position on the Dey case. His job was to uphold the constitution...which would have meant that he should have agreed with the majority opinion (whether you like it or not....and him for that matter). It's a dangerous edge he is walking when he allows his personal beliefs to dictate how he enforces our constitution. As for majority consensus: there are aspects about our constitution that will forever irk someone....but it's our constitution and individuals (like this judge) is not in a position to decide which parts of our constitution is worth fighting for & which parts are not. We need judges that fight for the whole of our constitution & this judge is not showing that virtue. Just because you think like this judge....doesn't make him the best candidate for the job.

      Richie - 2011-09-07 10:14

      Spot on!

      Truth24 - 2011-09-07 10:48

      Aye

  • Mlu - 2011-09-07 09:57

    The only problem with JZ is that anything he touches turns into controversy. I therefore see nothing wrong in the public challenging his choice of a CJ. No questions were asked when Mandela appointed Chaskalson and Mbeki appointed Langa in the same position. However, because he has shown a number of flaws in his judgement, JZ is susceptible to blunders and questions about his decisions. The appointment of Mogoeng might just prove to be one of his many blunders. Watch this space!!

      williamq - 2011-09-07 11:27

      You are getting the point. The fact is that Zuma himself is still a suspect in a corruption case - he did the tango with Schaik. It was only as a result of blunders by the prosecuting agency and clever political appointments that he escaped punishment. In everybody's mind the suggestion has been sown - he is corrupt. Any action that he takes will always be tainted with suspicion, as his integrity is always in doubt. Nominating a candidate who appears to be intellectually inferior to the other potential candidates has done nothing to remove the doubt.

  • Thabo Matwabeng - 2011-09-07 09:58

    Rober Mugabe, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler, to name just a few people from, as you put it, grassroots level who certainly did transform the justice systems in their countries. Most of them also did not have relationships with Jacob Zuma. I can't believe an adult can think that what you've just published constitutes and arguement. I also suggest you read our constitution to see that majority does not rule unrestricted without any principles. In fact, the correct term is governing, not ruling. There is a big difference between a government and a ruler and our constitution makes that distinction. It really is a pity the ANC does not.

      Thabo Matwabeng - 2011-09-07 10:00

      I should add that it is not that I do not necessarily support Mogoeng, or oppose him. I support the principles and ideals that are enshrined in the constitution and using that as my criteria Mogoeng does not pass the test. The fundamental problem with the ANC is that it plays personality politics, as opposed to principle politics.

      moiraine - 2011-09-07 18:57

      Like, like, like!

  • Bloodbane_3 - 2011-09-07 10:03

    ok SO your sayying you support someone who condome's rape, who believes that a husband cannot rape a women and believes that rapes that do happen are the fault of the women??? wow your a bright spark!

      SolomonMagalefa - 2011-09-07 10:48

      Hehehe @Bloodbane_3 - you just don't let off do you? Do you ever consider that people expressing differing views from yours might sometimes be right? I watched the ENTIRE JSC grilling of Judge Mogoeng and there is not a shred of evidence that supports your assertion. Perhaps you watched a different version (on a parallel universe)? For the record @Sylvia, I agree with your view that he should be supported, but not necessarily for the same reasons. It's a done deal, so let's give the man a fair chance to prove that he can learn from his mistakes - far too early to say he won't be up for the task.

      tailormade - 2011-09-07 11:03

      Solomon, did you actually read some of his judgements delivered? If so, you would have noticed that he didn't really answer the concerns....he merely provided emotional rhetoric and defensive tactics. He didn't fully explain any of his positions with rational legal arguments.

      SolomonMagalefa - 2011-09-07 11:12

      Sure @tailormade but the commissioners were shocking and failed miserably to interrogate aspects such as the jurisprudence surrounding his judgements. They either (shamelessly) soothed his ego or attacked him as an individual. Thus, seeing as those questions remain unanswered, he cannot be denied the job. As I said, let's give him a chance (done deal anyhow) - time will tell whether he is the right person for the job or not.

      Bloodbane_3 - 2011-09-07 11:25

      @SolomonMagalefa -so I take it you agree with his commet to the rapist of a 14 year old girl??? you agree that rape means nothing? and you agree that women ask to be raped.... He said: "One can safely assume that [the accused] must have been mindful of [the victim's] tender age and was thus so careful as not to injure her private parts, except accidentally, when he penetrated her. That would explain why the child was neither sad nor crying when she returned from the shop, notwithstanding the rape. In addition to the tender approach that would explain the absence of serious injuries and the absence of serious bleeding, he bought her silence and cooperation with Simba chips and R30.... I knew you were think, just didnt realise you were disgusting aswell!

      Bloodbane_3 - 2011-09-07 11:31

      @SolomonMagalefa - let me get tis straight, you admit he has a dodgy track record (and that's putting it lightly) yet you say he should be given the job becuase the guys questinning him didnt ask him about it? is that your logic, "yes we know he's crap, but we'll hire him anyway because we didnt ask him way he's crap"?

      SolomonMagalefa - 2011-09-07 11:34

      @Bloodbane_3 - I was wondering if your listening skills are as impaired as your (obviously) deficient literacy skills are? You continually dodge the questions that I put to you and then (selectively) pick on subjective extracts from media articles concerning Judge Mogoeng's judgements. Clearly you did not listen to his answers to the JSC concerning his judgements. Anyhow, your mind is closed to debate and you are clearly only interested in the views of those who agree with you. Perhaps you should pick a number and join the far q...

      Bloodbane_3 - 2011-09-07 11:48

      @SolomonMagalefa - it's like talking to a 3 year old..... ok, yes other opinions can be right, I've admitted in the past when I have been wrong. So I pose the question to you, is this acceptable "One can safely assume that [the accused] must have been mindful of [the victim's] tender age and was thus so careful as not to injure her private parts, except accidentally, when he penetrated her. That would explain why the child was neither sad nor crying when she returned from the shop, notwithstanding the rape. In addition to the tender approach that would explain the absence of serious injuries and the absence of serious bleeding, he bought her silence and cooperation with Simba chips and R30"? it's yes or no question. I'll explain my reason after you've answer'd

      Prof - 2011-09-07 13:12

      @Bloodbane_3, You clearly do not understand Bra Sol. Arguing further with you will just be a waste of his time. Bra Sol is right.

      Neles - 2011-09-07 14:43

      @SolomonMagalefa - "...people from a distance won't know the difference" lol @ joining the far q

      Bloodbane_3 - 2011-09-07 15:06

      @Prof - so you agree with raping a 14year old? peopel usually keep quiet when they know they cant win. Bra solo is wrong, pity is he is guilty of what he accuses me, he only believe his own view and cant debate anything else since he cant see anything else

  • Terminusest - 2011-09-07 10:03

    Not sure if stupid, or trolling.

  • African - 2011-09-07 10:05

    I support Mogoeng Mogoeng too, I mean the JSC approves too. He is fit and qualified for the post.

      tailormade - 2011-09-07 11:01

      So, he is fit to be appointment....simply because the JSC says so? Really???

      JMsays - 2011-09-07 12:04

      You don't support Mogoeng, you blindly support Zuma, you are an "yes boss" person...sad really.

      Prof - 2011-09-07 12:08

      @tailormade, si u think u know better than jsc??

      Chubacca - 2011-09-07 12:35

      @African.The JSC itself lacks credibility. It has been packed with JZ cronies. The ANC is going to "transform" the judiciary by whatever means necessary. The ANC is becoming so arrogant that they dont even try to spin things anymore.It is the highest legal job in the country, we deserve the best candidate, not a JZ yes man.

  • Oom Filimon - 2011-09-07 10:07

    Poor Sylvia - if zooma had nominated a lump of crap, you would support the nomination!

  • Zoolie - 2011-09-07 10:14

    Eish has a frustration, i dont understand what u talking about. That will be the answer to next failing of this country.

  • Nkalakatha - 2011-09-07 10:18

    Sylvia van der Veen: You are talking a lot of RUBBISH !! Reduce the crime rate ???? That is not the job of the Judiciary that is the Police's job !!! Why is COSATU not supporting his appointment ???? You must have smoked some funny stuff !! I suppose you are working with this Judge ??

      Neles - 2011-09-07 14:45

      easy on the punctuation, tony leon

  • Gyro - 2011-09-07 10:29

    I read ... I read ... I'm shocked. How can one support a person that has openly made statements against gay/lesbian people. Yes I do agree that these are his believes ... that gay/lesbian people have no place in this world. On this I do agree and disagree. A man that says a woman whom was dragged behind a car deserved it, c'mon be real here, or did you get a pair of black spray painted glasses? The point that I'm trying to get at is, will he be able to keep his personal views and believes under control as CJ? For you have to be impartial when sitting on that bench ... to the fullest. Still shocked.

      moiraine - 2011-09-07 19:00

      He certainly didnt keep them under control when trying criminal cases, or when being questioned by the comission, so why should he keep them under control when CJ?

  • Prof - 2011-09-07 10:32

    "All the political parties opposing this nomination must know that collectively they still do not represent the majority" Well said!!!!!

      tailormade - 2011-09-07 10:59

      The inherent problem with this quote (and your implied support of it) is this: It implies that that our country's president ALWAYS has the ability to make the best decision. This is just logical fallacy! Further, it also implies that the majority is ALWAYS right. Another logical fallacy. A sign of a good leader is the ability to recognise and acknowledge when he/she has made a mistake. Maybe, on this occasion, our president has made a mistake?

      Prof - 2011-09-07 12:00

      The president has the right to appoint according to the constitution. You guys are just trying to ignore that. You can't change that.

      Almaki - 2011-09-07 14:10

      Prof, the President has the right to appoint the Chief Justice. However, the specific passage of law states that it may only be done "after consultation" with parties represented in the National Assembly and other stakeholders. I have seen no indication that Zuma is willing to discuss the situation. Hence, according to the law you so happily brought up, he is in the wrong.

      Fred - 2011-09-07 16:59

      There are so many examples of Zuma appointees that have failed dismally. I suppose thay were all just given a chance. Shame lets give Mogoeng a chance and lets see what happens. The outcry is not so much as the fact that JZ decided to ignore the law by giving the JSC a selection of, say three judges (including Mogoeng)and after the JSC's submission still decide to appoint Mogoeng, or the fact that he simply ignores this and tell the JSC, "screw you, he is my choice". What must the JSC do now? Rubber stamp JZ's decision? Here is a judge that is clearly very male biased in a rape trial. Rape is rape. Penetration is rape. There should be a minimum sentence in case of rape. South Africa has the highest rape scenario in the world and we wonder why when a judge gives sentences like that. The cherry on the cake is to say that God wants him to be CJ. What a load of crock. A more proper answer would have been that he is a religous devout christian and he believes that his outlook towards God and chritianity would make him a suitable candidate for this position. Meaning that he will supportive of the government of the day and make sure each decision his court will make will be subject to the letter of the constitution.

  • Peter Annenberg - 2011-09-07 10:37

    @sylvia, you are a traitor just like your race before you.

      huts25 - 2011-09-07 14:15

      how do you know what race she is? Oh I'm sorry I forgot you don't need to know that, she disagrees with you so she's 'no better than them' is that right?

  • Vuzi - 2011-09-07 10:47

    Got to agree with the author on this one. South Africa is seen as a sociological experiment by many American and other western lawmakers and law managers, or lawyers - if you prefer. They continue to make a fundamental basic mistakes in their assumptions that simply doesn't hold for Africa. Speak for five minutes to an American and you'll notice that his worldview an understanding of Africa is broken. So many of their arguments on social justice, rights and the complete lack of the coded responsibility that goes with it. The average westerner possesses the innate ability to appreciate cause and effect, the average African - less so. This is a simple empirical fact. The differences in innate human ability is discarded by western systems, or rather, its baked in by definition. This is why Africans need and want strong leaders and systems. This is why we need a fundamental and Christian Judge like Judge Mogoeng. African solution for African problem.

      @ - 2011-09-07 13:13

      I like the way you expressed your African solution for African problem theory... over the internet from your computer or mobile phone or ipad... sitting in your western-style office having driven there in a motorcar... Fact is, Africa cannot NOT conform to international standards and still expect to be taken seriously... Africa is upset that they have not be taken seriously in Libya but when has Africa actually stood up and faced... let alone criticised... ANY of the despots who have ravaged their countries and killed hundreds of thousands of people along the way... Africa's solutions to these African problems is to support their African peers no matter what. If it had been left up to Africa, Gadaffi would still be abusing his people... and Africa wouldn't mind one bit... if Africa had (or even began to assemble) a record of doing the right thing... the rest of the world would take Africa a lot more seriously... fact is Africa only wants an African solution when it suits them... and will take the best the western world has to offer every other time... Mogoeng invoked the names of western chief justices when discussing his age... why did he NOT use the same western names to support his not recusing himself from a case involving his wife...? hmmmm?

  • Truth24 - 2011-09-07 10:48

    This is what happens when a woman thinks out loud.

      MartinFord - 2011-09-07 11:42

      Sounds like you are quoting a Mogoeng ruling.

  • SimonP - 2011-09-07 10:51

    "The fact that the Chief Justice elect comes from the grassroots of our nation is the primary asset that will transform the judiciary, promote access to justice for the poor of this country and help to reduce the crime rate". Sylvia, please explain HOW this guys appointment will solve these issues. Its easy to make a statement but if you can not provide some substance to back it up its pretty worthless.

      Neles - 2011-09-07 14:47

      can someone give this guy a kleenex pls - he's leaking again

  • Tolerant - 2011-09-07 10:56

    "From grassroots", it sounds that like he also looked after cattle? I hope not.

  • qhuggett - 2011-09-07 11:01

    The fact this Judge says God chose him to be chief justice should make every one quake in their boots. A chief Justice needs to be logical, and unemotional in the extreme. There is no place for beliefs and mysticism in the law.

  • TFIL - 2011-09-07 11:17

    You've been living in South Africa too long and are simply trying to find positives in a sea of chaos and corruption. Stay in the kitchen. NEWS 24 please institute an IQ test before allowing readers to post this nonsense.

      babygotback - 2011-09-09 12:02

      slow clap! :)

  • John Jameson - 2011-09-07 11:19

    What this country needs is not transformation, but leadership that can bind the country together. It is irrelevant that the Chief Justice comes from the grassroots of our nation if he cannot represent justice for all. I'm no legal expert but to me justice does not depend on a majority vote but on fairness.

  • Shane B - 2011-09-07 11:35

    Sorry Sylvia but you almost sound like a homophobe who believes that women get raped because they deserve it. Look at his history, in a matter as important as this we can only judge him on what he has done and not what he says he will do. Another wrong decision from our misguided president!!

  • Daemos1 - 2011-09-07 11:36

    Hi CV is thin and his experience is lacking, wrong man for the job, politics aside

  • crocoros - 2011-09-07 11:44

    Leading the Judiciary of a country takes someone with an impeccable record. In my opnion I see Moegoeng as arrogant and there is no place in the Judiciary for arrogance. Is Jacob Zuma the right man to decide on who should run the Judiciary when he has a disasterous record regarding justice?

  • Lauren - 2011-09-07 11:57

    Sylvia, what is wrong with DCJ Mosenke's grass roots experience? You were making some valid points until you snuck in, what appears to be your true agenda: gay rights issues. When you have two candidates who have both come from the grass roots level, the argument for a grass roots apointment naturally falls away. We are then left with your second argument, which seems to be that you are hoping that will stop gay and lesbian values being foisted upon you. Does that about sum it up? I think it does, because if you listen and read carefully, you will notice that the problem that the NGOs have with Mogoeng is the "flavour" of his judgments on issues of violence against women, children and homosexual people. Not the fact that he won't champion their cause (not course) to "sumperimpose their values on society". Having said all of that, I do think you expressed yourself rather well.

  • I_ARE_BABOON - 2011-09-07 12:13

    I fail to see how a god bothering loon with questionable views on women and the gay community will be a "voice of the voiceless".

  • Themba Thwala - 2011-09-07 12:26

    Oi, what are you smoking? Juju-boy also came from grassroots. Jacob Zuma and "philosophy" in the same sentence? Lol...

  • @ - 2011-09-07 12:59

    Yes Sylvia... He is a great appointment... I'm sure you'll still support him when you provoke a man who, with Mogoeng's blessing, will tie you to a car and drag you until you're sorry and know your place... I'm sure you'll be trumpeting his grass-roots background the next time you, a family member or friend get raped and your rapist gets off because you're injuries were not extensive enough to warrant a strong sentence...! I'm sure you'll laud his integrity next time you sue his wife and does not recuse himself from the case and you'll know you had a fair shot at justice... Yes... this respecter of women's rights, human rights, the constitution and integrity is definitely the best choice for the post... BTW just before i go... can you even name any other other possible candidates...? Grass-roots or not...?

  • huts25 - 2011-09-07 14:12

    I know 'chief justice' sounds like a cool superhero name, but actually he won't have superhuman powers to 'transform the judiciary' and give everyone access to justice. Unless of course by transforming the judiciary you mean transforming it from an independent (somewhat) respected institution to the President's rubber stamp?

  • vusi22 - 2011-09-07 14:19

    this is great

  • Nick van der Leek - 2011-09-07 22:12

    Mogoeng is also obviously arrogant.

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  • lepis - 2011-09-08 21:34

    Zuma made the right choice. Those who were suppossed to consulted, were consulted. Consultation to me does not mean doing what they want. Opposition parties seem to be on a path to discredit anything the preident does, even if it's good. P.S. It's time they start to live change and embrace transformation and stop hiding behind so called rights. WELL DONE MR PRESIDENT!!!!

  • babygotback - 2011-09-09 11:44

    wow - i don't even know why news24 posted this mindless dribble. sylvia van der veen clearly knows absolutely nothing about the gay struggle in this country. lesbians are being given "corrective" rape while mogoeng has shown time and again that rape isn't really such a serious thing. according to sylvia, when gay people are upset and deeply alarmed by this... it's only because we want to "superimpose our values on society". please walk off a really steep cliff you patronising bigoted retard!

  • soelyla - 2011-09-10 14:09

    Unfortunately, van der Veen supports Moegeng because of his grassroots success, no mention of his judicial rulings, which should be the only criteria in judging his suitability. Also I find it very worrying thatlegal societies, law clinicals, and university scholars across SA were not visible on this issue. It seems Section27 an organization dedicated to social justice were the most visible? Have I missed the opinion and analysis from SA legal society? YET, SAfricans are winning. I have never seen such critical exposure of a legal scholar anywhere else in the world. Can you imagine the flashlight, the pressure on the new Chief Justice at his next judication. The media have done a great job, so thank them from time to time, your praise influences future, tough editorial decisions!

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