My Response is in bold while the actual contribution (ad verbatim) is that of MemeMan.
Firstly let me say that MemeMan is a rational thinker, He treats evidence fairly and consistently. He is also interested in the best explanation for the evidence in that he is prepared to place all the explanations side by side and then see which explanation explains the evidence best. He is prepared to let the facts challenge his own worldview. He understands that when he is critiquing other worldviews, he has to ensure that he tries his best to understand all of the critiqued worldview and not just something that he read of something he was told about. In fact MemeMan is a sceptic first and he is only interested in the truth whatever it may be.
If this description of MemeMan is false, then the rest of the response will be meaningless to him. If it is not, he will respond to the response rationally and responsibly.
To all other readers – Judge for yourself.
20 December 2013, 18:39
It's almost Xmas - so a huge birthday wish goes out to baby Jesus for the 25th... and, of course, to Sir Isaac Newton (who definitely lived)...
And, also born on this day, a HUGE Happy Birthday wish must also and equally be given to:
Horus - Egypt 3000 BC
Born Dec. 25, born of a virgin, birth was signaled by the east star, adored by 3 kings, had 12 disciples, performed miracles, known as "lamb of god" and "the light", crucified, was buried 3 days, was resurrected.
Misinformation or bluntly put engineered information – Horus’s mother was called Isis – there is no evidence that she was called Meri. Secondly Isis hovered over an erect penis that she created for Orisis and through this process gave birth to Horus. So far it is nothing like the virgin birth story in the bible. So what about the rest of the information.
1. There is no evidence of worship from 3 kings in the Horus story.
2. Horus did not have 12 disciples – he was 8 disciples short. 4 is not equal to 12. Later on this increased to sixteen followers and later an army that went with him into battle. The first 4 were called Heru- Shemsu
3. Horus was known as the ‘lamb of god’ - No MemeMan – that is not true, there was also claims that he was known as the KRST but all this is purely stretched information.
4. Nope – Horus was not crucified – in fact there is no record of Horus dying. Horus was taken up by Re (the sun god) and Horus rises every morning and enters the world of the dead every night. – No crucifixion experience for Horus and Horus did not rise on the third day.
To be fair to MemeMan – I used Wikipedia to confirm what I read a long time ago in a Christian Apologetic Website – Wikipedia confirms that Zeitgeist got this one wrong.
Can we now agree that this is debunked?
Attis - Greece 1200 BC
Born Dec. 25, born of a virgin, was crucified, dead for 3 days, was resurrected.
Let’s start with the first known information about Attis – We came to first know of Attis from the writings of a Greek historian called Herodotus. The story states that Attis died from being speared by his bodyguard who tried to kill the attacking boar. Even if everything else that MemeMan says is true, the story falls but let’s be as charitable as MemeMan – Another version is that Nana (his mother) placed an almond on her bosom and the almond disappeared into her bosom and that is how she became pregnant. Okay, that makes her a virgin. Now MemeMan, I know a lot of readers won’t want to read an article that is quite long but I urge you and readers to read Wikipedia’s account of Attis. Notice again, I am making reference to neutral websites. What this means is that I am not giving a Christian bias response.
Mithra - Persia 1200 BC
Born Dec. 25, born of a virgin, had 12 disciples, performed miracles, dead for 3 days, resurrected, known as "the truth" and "the light", sunday was the day of worship.
If a rock can enjoy the status of being a virgin then MemeMan is right because Mithra is said to have emerged from a rock. Now do we go any further with this allegation?
Krishna - India 900BC
Born of a virgin, birth signalled by east star, performed miracles, was resurrected.
Oops! Devaki, Krishna’s mother already had children before Krishna. In fact Wikipedia states that she had 7 children before she had Vaasudeva (Krishna). Jara who mistook Krishna for a deer shot him with his bow and arrow. Yes, Wikipedia says that he ascended into heaven after a short dialogue with Jara. Suddenly the story does not sound similar to the JESUS story.
Dionysus - Greece 500 BC
Born Dec. 25, born of a virgin, performed miracles, known as "king of kings" and dialogue with Jara "alpha and omega", was resurrected upon death.
Wikipedia states that Zeus had an affair with Samele (a mortal) the mother of Dionysus. When Samele saw Zeus in his fully natural state she perished and then Zeus sewed the Dionysus into his thigh. Even Hera a goddess was jealous of the affair. There are quite a lot of other people who were referred to by the title “king of kings’. To name a few – Maummar Gadaffi made this claim. Julius Caesar’s son, the King of Ethopia, Xerxes etc.
Of course, that brings us up to a whopping big birthday bash for at least 40 gods with these similar characteristics:
Born of virgin on December 25;
Stars appeared at their births;
visited by Magi from the east;
turned water into wine;
healed the sick;
cast out demons;
transfigured before followers;
rode donkeys into the city;
betrayed for 30 pieces of silver;
celebrated communal meal with bread and wine;
which represented the savior's flesh and blood;
killed on a cross or tree;
descended into hell;
resurrected on third day;
ascended into heaven;
to forever sit beside Father God and become Divine Judge.
So what have we seen here -?
Misinformation, stretched out information, later developments (After CHRIST I should mention) but none of these people can ever claim the following:
1. The prophecies that JESUS fulfilled. Prophecies that could not have been engineered.
2. The reason for HIS birth, Death and resurrection.
3. Historical integrity of the data
The frightening thing is that there is 850 famous people who share the same birthday with me. I hope that in the future people won’t say that Bobby was just a borrowed concept because many of these people were born long before me. Guess what I know a few things that we share in common besides my birthday – we are human, we are Christians, We were born in a hospital, we were the last born in our family, we were born at night, we were born at home with the aid of a midwife. How possible is that some of us could have the so many things in common? It must be a good foundation for a good conspiracy theory but I know that MemeMan will defend me and say no – Bobby really existed.
However, the problem we all can see is this again has been debunked so many times and so convincingly that almost most of the atheist apologists (if I can call them that) would not even dare to raise.
Now MemeMan, let me make a concession – No Christian will tell you that JESUS was born on the 25th December and most will actually tell you that this may not even be the true date. However, no Christian will be concerned by this because when is not as important as YES, HE was born. This is not denied by real historians.
SO how is this for consistency – Was the earth earth really formed on 1 January as per the calendar but you sir will have no issue on celebrating New Year’s Day.
So now the biggest question we need to ask that if the JESUS story was a borrowed story, how come it was not exposed at the time of JESUS. Remember, if it is as your article say, then the Jews would have had a field day but that was not the case. Even Josephus the Jewish historian would have capitalised on this but silence……………………………………. I wonder why.
MemeMan, can I please ask you to give me the source of your information? I really want to check the credibility of your source and also investigate why Wikipedia was not updated.
But thank you for your article because you have once again given Christians the opportunity to expose the misinformation that is out there. You, MemeMan has done Christianity a great service. May GOD bless you.
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