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It hurts...
08/07/2008 08:52
I agree. However, the best fining structure I've heard of is the one in Finland. Certain offences get allocated fines as a percentage of your gross income. i.e The rich get hammered if they commit an offence and the poor too (because the chunk of income is the same). At the moment the rich don't feel a R500 traffic fine - or even a R20000 traffic fine.
A few years ago the head of Nokia got fined in the hundreds of thousands of Euros for speeding. Now that sounds more like it! - Average Joe on the Street |
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Not too clued up law...
08/07/2008 09:01
You lack a basic understanding of Criminal Law - The huge difference between pirate dvds/poaching and accidently running over someone with your boat is that one is done intentionally and the other is accidental. Obviously you can't treat the two the same. - Lawyer |
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Life is cheap
08/07/2008 09:02
Lif is cheap in this country and our courts and legal system enforces this notion. The last few years I have seen case after case of rich people getting off purely because they could afford the best legal defence. Equality before he law is a myth. As they say you are more equal if you have a big bank balance. - Pangea |
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You forgot to mention tv licences
08/07/2008 09:11
Apparently not having a TV licence is also more serious than rape, assault or murder. Maybe we should send TV licence inspectors after the violent criminals. You're right though, the law protects big business and does precious little for the rest of us. - Odette |
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So True
08/07/2008 09:15
I couldn't agree with you more! It seems the little guy no matter what race, age or religion have been reduced to no more than common cattle. Who cares if we lose a couple here and there to a ridiculous amount violent crime and disorderly behavior. It doesn't effect the guy at the top!
- Dennis |
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Law is great
08/07/2008 09:15
the only way to change the laws in this country and make it friednly to the small guy is for the small professional person to leave SA taking skills and vital tax for the economy away. When enough have left and the GDP is in pain then the governement will wake up alas too late and beg us to come back. Only money makes pain here. Less money more pain. - John |
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Well Said
08/07/2008 09:16
Well said! - Lejane |
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Licenses
08/07/2008 09:22
Why is it when you drive down any main street the "cheapie" car dealers have billboards proclaiming "no drivers license required" to buy their cars? Try to buy a TV from a shop without a license and see how far you get... - Rob |
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For the Lawyer
08/07/2008 09:25
Since when is getting horribly slammed on alcohol and making the conscious decision to get into a car and drive in that state, an "accident"! Get a clue.. the law, as you so put it, is clearly flawed!
- Dennis |
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law sucks
08/07/2008 09:29
this is my definition of the if you want to steal,steal millions do your time come out to be rich,don't steal a few rands you would be put away for life.don't hurt someone cos you would get a heavy sentence rather kill do your time and maybe you come out hero and you might just get a building or street named after you.how's that ? - sam |
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The Law is very flawed indeed
08/07/2008 09:35
Not only in SA but more or less in all democratic countries (with the exception of a few like Finland as you pointed out). Money makes the world go round, indeed. Even in the USA the rich (and famous) are more equal than the rest. (OJ Simpson & Michael Jackson comes to mind). So yes, you are right on all counts. - TB |
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@Lawyer
08/07/2008 09:39
Uh? running over someone when you're drunk and killing them isn't accident. If you choose to drive when you're drunk you're intentionally putting other people in danger. Or are you the kind of lawyer that searches for the little technicality that gets your client off the hook? - SomeBloke |
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Law and money
08/07/2008 09:45
Let me be blunt here and risk a lot of criticism but this is how I see it.
The law as it stands now will be bent on nailing offenders financially because that is the easy target, and in the case of white defendants the thinking is that they are rich therefore they must pay, regardless of the severity of the crime. Whereas the (previously disadvantaged) defendants are usually broke and therefore there is less incentive to nail them. Hence suspended sentences for hi-jacking and no fine. - Andrew |
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Animal Farm
08/07/2008 09:49
As George Orwell penned in Animal Farm: All pigs are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. I would say this quote sums up the ANC quite well - not to mention most other political parties once they've garnered power. For quite some time now it's been about the 'haves' and the 'have more's'. Democracy is a fallacy - Capitalism rules the day! - Postman Pat |
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Basics first..
08/07/2008 09:50
A friend of mine, who now wisely lives in Texas put it clearly. Law enforcement must start with the basics... if the law cannot stop a man from pissing in the street, what hope do they have of preventing or discouraging more serious crime...? - Sean |
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To lawyer commentator
08/07/2008 09:51
Where did you see that the boating incident was an accident? Chris is completely right - the (world's) legal system is completely unbalanced. - KoosS |
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@Lawyer
08/07/2008 09:53
It can be argued that if you drive drunk and kill someone there was intent - since you know that if you are over the legal limit your judgement is impaired. - FairisFair |
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Question to 'lawyer'
08/07/2008 09:58
All reasonable persons (the definition used in law) know that getting drunk and then driving diminishes a person's capacity to drive properly, thereby increasing the chances of them causing a collision (not an accident). Surely this can be classed as attempted murder? - WAM |
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The (out)law
08/07/2008 10:47
Chris, and other commentators, you are so right. If you have money and are perceived to be investing, there is nothing you cannot do and get away with it. It is the corrupt 'elite' that just use the average person. In most cases the average guys cannot afford to defend themselvesand hence they have to pay. Big business knows this and have no morals or ethics in slamming the poor into poorer and exploited environments. As I have nothing left due to this I just keep on going unrepresented. It works - SM |
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@Lawyer, So its OK if the case results in pay the Lawyer,
08/07/2008 10:53
But if the Lawyer does not get paid exorbitant fees, nail the little guy / poor / defenseless. Milk the rich, enrich yourself & dont work for it. Would you make it in another developed country? Your profession are similar to leaches. Wrong is wrong, right is right, regardless. Obvious your profession feels nothing for the innocent & protect the criminal. Do your job & be fair & objective!!! - Matrix |
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to Andrew..
08/07/2008 10:57
Agree 100% with ur comments. Also jail time costs state money. Agree with writer, to many fines, or slaps on the wrist, not enough jail time for serious offenders. But accident and intent are seperate law topics, treated independently.But as always, if ANC didn't drive us to drink and actually implemented their deaf words, these petty issues would be sidelined and real criminals prosecuted. Like agliotti, the guy still walks free. he's a national drug/extortion kingpin. but yes his mates r ANC. - Greg |
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@ andrew
08/07/2008 10:58
I do not agree with you. In my experience it is big money that is more equel. 1000 guys at R1000 each is much better than 2 guys at R50000 each. The R50000 would probably be 'negotiated' down to only half, because money can be thown at it. The R1000 guys still get to pay it. @Lawyer, who paid you to post such rubbish. - SM |
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It's way of the world
08/07/2008 11:00
Things will never change. Ever. Greed drives people. This is why 'communist way of thinking' arise from mainly the poor, but also from some in the higher classes. Those like Carl Marx innocently thought of ways to put every person on equal grounds. Money really does talk and those who have it will have the upperhand most of the time. Big companies build prosperous economies and create bubbels for those who can afford to live in the upper classes. - ElectroMan |
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Careers
08/07/2008 11:07
For some time I considered law as a career at the urging of a few family members. I finally let go of that idea once my dad pointed out to me that he raised me to be a morally just and ethically correct person and that I'd be a huge failure at being a lawyer - simply because I won't ever be able to act pompous enough or to lie and cheat with the best in the business... - Tuffy |
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Do not cast all in the same court?
08/07/2008 11:15
Those who fool themselves by thining that it is unfair to blame the rich for the quality of life of the poor, should rethink their views. The bubble in which the upper class live is created by the hard labour of the poor and the middle class is the barrier between the two groups. The bubble was created in illegal/questionable ways and therefore is still supported by it indirectly. Unless everyone were on the same level, which in reality will never be due to some working harder than others. - ElectroMan |
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