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Spot on.
15/07/2008 09:30
The pure Capitalist system is running out of steam - fast. The solution? A balance maybe between Capitalism & Socialism? How to peacefully enforce on the free world? Impossible? Nothing is impossible, but not in another 200 years I suppose. the s*** will have to hit the fan first, before that day will dawn. - TB |
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One can understand
15/07/2008 09:31
why socialists and fundamentalists oppose this kind of unadulterated capitalism.One can also say there is no perfect solution.Not to worry though Chris.Our govt will give you handouts with all our tax and bee funds they are hording,(not reducing our C.A.D.Chasing F.D.I. away,populist/leftist politics etc).Have you ripped your lawn up for a veggie garden yet?I have and I'm growing money trees even though it's a fruit. - psycobabble |
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What utter rubbish.
15/07/2008 09:38
Chris, you clearly have a very poor grasp of economics. No profits, no tax. No tax, no social services, etc. Taxes keep the government going (corrupt, venal and inefficient as it is). More than 12 million people in this country receive government grants. Profit drives investment and efficiency and quality (just look at SAA, Eskom, etc!). The problem with the gap between rich and poor is not that the rich should become poorer, it is that the poor should become wealthier. Get it? - liki |
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Maybe its automation?
15/07/2008 09:39
I remember a decade or two ago economists where saying computers and robots would be taking over from humans. And now it is actualy AIDS and gap gap between rich and poor mucking things up! Seriously though, we heading into decline fast. Our biggest trading partners in the northern hemisphere are not well and this is a huge concern. Tightens your belts everyone! - eric |
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Powder kegs? Yes, and more!!!
15/07/2008 09:43
I survived 4 restrucures & staff cuts then became victim of another restructuring & staff cuts. Was devastating, but created an opportunity for private business. Has grown & I was able to more than survive. Then Gov. policies resulted in my business loosing more & more business (BB/Bee, AA, etc). the result of this is that I am "closing shop" the end of 2008. The unfortunate loosers are people (now 13, 5 x HIV+)working for me. Packing up & moving to NZ. AA Staff not interested in taking over. - Matrix |
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Economic Crises
15/07/2008 09:46
Things are getting worse by the day Chris.
People are battling to survive.
I understand this economic crisis is not unique to South Africa, but I think things could get better in our country. We are too relaxed, and have an insignificant opposition because everyone wants to have their own political party. For the record I'm not in the opposition, but at this stage I believe this relaxed approach by our ruling party to do as they please has got to stop.
As much as I would hate to see a political party that won't have my best interests at heart, but a protest vote by the masses at this stage seem logical.
And please don?t turn this in to a racial issue, that?s way past expiration date now.
- Vulindlela Xundu |
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DO NOT WORK HARD IN SA!!!!
15/07/2008 09:53
In SA, it seems that when there are job cuts, it always the competent people that go. The useless and incompetent people stay, and are in fact rewarded. I know people have been hard working, driven and competenmt, but have still benn pushed out, with the dregs remaining. Moral of story: If you work hard in SA, youre an idiot, you are simply wasting your effort..I have first hand expereience. Idiocricy is rewarded, competence punished. - Aussie Bound |
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Pruning
15/07/2008 09:57
Chris, the getting rid of people is not going to ever put value out on the street. what it is doing, is getting rid of the dead wood and more than likely slowly hiring better people. Because people are so secure in their jobs (they can't be fired), it is like a mass spring clean. the problem is rooted in labor law. - Tim |
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Point taken...
15/07/2008 10:01
..., but what is the alternative? At least many poor people have the opportunity to get out of their situation if they really want to. - ghost |
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a small fallacy
15/07/2008 10:16
Generally I agree - especially the wage differential. BUT as the redundancies because you aren't the right colour prove, some unemployed just stay unemployed... others are liberated (with considerable experience) and start new businesses, (or emigrate, or come back as consultants because the company really does need them). We're over-rewarding our top execs, and not casting any form of disapproving censure on people who live like old-fashioned emperors while others starve. - Baboon |
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another uninformed comment
15/07/2008 10:16
once again someone commenting on economic problems, first get a real understanding of economics before trying to make meaningul comments regarding the subject. - turbo superboss |
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Lazy & demanding
15/07/2008 10:19
Many of the "poorer" workers expect that they can be paid maximum funds for minimal effort. They expect that their employer must provide for all their wants, they must have protection from fellow workers and managment. In return they give little not on a job description. This is all expensive to provide. There is little loyalty to the employer. Surplus workers must go when they cost more than they contribute! - Birdman |
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THIS IS VERY TRUE
15/07/2008 10:20
I don't care what all this economic experts are saying but if goverment and private sector don't take hands to address this extreme serious problem of poverty in SA than they might as well take their monies now and invest overseas so that the revolution can start sooner than later because this is where we slowly are moving to - Andre |
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Careful with that brush, Eugene (nod to Pink Floyd)
15/07/2008 10:21
Tarring everyone with the same brush is just foolish. Some companies simply are bloated, so job cuts aren't always simply about the bottom line. Also, many companies are private. That is not to say that job cuts don't happen in private companies, but they tend to be smaller and I think job cuts are more likely in bigger companies since smaller companies are less likely to have superfluous staff. The answer to the problem is certainly not to insist on bloated companies remaining that way, though. It also doesn't seem unreasonable to expect to be rewarded, but that needs to be balanced with the life of the company - if too many jobs are cut the company will be unsustainable. - CTheB |
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@Tim, oh my friend under what illusion U R.
15/07/2008 10:27
I worked over a period of 18 years for the biggest financial institutions (in IT). In ALL of them the sam etrend was followed, i.e. restructuring & in the short term, slight dip, medium term profits up, longer term, profits significantly down. Common source in all the cases were loss of competent & skilled professionals. Yes, some dead wood removed, but in most cases the dead wood is still there. In most cases the dead wood were AA / EE candidates. - Matrix |
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@ Tim
15/07/2008 10:55
Tim you are living in a dream world. Aussie Bound have hit it on the head, as did Matrix. The 'gimme' & 'want mores for no work' are the ones left. The real problem is they do not want to do their little bit and hence 'Experience & Knowledge' finally have to succumb to this type of way of life and then just pack up and voila we have 'Brain drain'. Buddy-buddy system in SA alive and well fed with gravy. - SM |
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Mixed Markets
15/07/2008 10:58
This is the reason why we're in the mess we're in...globally. Trying to manage free market capitalism with socialism is like mixing brake fluid and HTH. It's either or. You can choose free marktes which = freedom, or choose socialism which = serfdom. Currently we're hurtling towards socialism and the end result of fascism. Go read up on Germany after the Weimar Republic if you want to know where we're going. - Freemarketman |
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In the interest of the share holders.
15/07/2008 11:01
Couldn't agree more. The truth is that the Board members normally own vast amount of shares and when they state they are acting in the interest of share holder, they realy are acting in their own interest. If you list a company you are selling your soul to people how are only interested in short term gain. - Mike3 |
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I wouldn't object ...
15/07/2008 11:04
... if they cut the deadwood. I work for a large multinational, and every time there's restructuring, operational & maintenance staff are cut, while the bloated head office remains the same or gets larger. Of course much of HO consists of "window dressing" - AA appointees with no real responsibilities (like those ministers without portfolio government likes appointing) so they can't be "let go" anyway. All chiefs and no indians - this will be the downfall of many companies. - marna |
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Pruning
15/07/2008 11:05
Chris, the getting rid of people is not going to ever put value out on the street. what it is doing, is getting rid of the dead wood and more than likely slowly hiring better people. Because people are so secure in their jobs (they can't be fired), it is like a mass spring clean. the problem is rooted in labor law. - Tim |
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Ownership
15/07/2008 11:06
People must own the companies they work for and have a say in running them. Practically this might be difficult to achieve but is the only long term solution. OWNERSHIP OF CAPITAL is the devide between the rich and the poor. Peope who do not own anything can not keep up with the economic system. They live on the fringes of all the processes that run capitalism and play catch up all the time. I own a house; hardly weatlhy, BUT when the house prices went up I benefited. - Louis |
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Productivity
15/07/2008 11:09
Sadly, regardless of system, productivity is the key. That just means work harder, longer, cheaper, bugger. - japes |
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Pruning
15/07/2008 11:09
Chris, the getting rid of people is not going to ever put value out on the street. what it is doing, is getting rid of the dead wood and more than likely slowly hiring better people. Because people are so secure in their jobs (they can't be fired), it is like a mass spring clean. the problem is rooted in labor law. - Tim |
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The big picture
15/07/2008 11:35
Chris you make some good points. I recently watched a documentary about WallMart where a shop floor worker would need to work 1000 years to earn what the company's CEO gets in one year. There is something wrong with a society and economic system that allows such inequality to prevail. It is a question of human dignity and how we value people?s input. Similar examples I am sure can be found in SA.
The fact that shareholders are more often than not geographically far removed from the companies they invest in, makes them less likely to care about the social effects (unemployment, poverty etc.) caused by the methods used to generate the desired returns. As we are beginning to find out how-ever the ills in other parts of the world are also affecting us now. It is also good to remember that the massive gap between rich and poor (and associated educational gap) in SA is the no 1 cause of crime. You don?t need a degree in economics to understand this.
- Martin |
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As always
15/07/2008 11:56
We post comments, but you always post the ones putting us in a bad light! One just needs to read btwn the line to see beyond what is written here...people are always complaining as if life is better elsewhere, if that's the case, then leave...in general SAns are whiners and the laziest, period. We are always quick to point fingers, especially at the "poorer" masses as many put it...get over it! Recession take place all the time, globally! Africa isn't the only dark continent! - Nepotism |
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