Johannesburg

Monday

Sprinkles. Morning clouds. Nippy.

6°C
14°C

7 day forecasts
Chris Roper

'All hope is gone'

2008-08-20 08:47

Chris Roper

Well, I didn't see this one coming. Yet again, Satanic music is blamed for some poor psychotic kid going on a rampage. In the case of the Krugersdorp sword killing, we have a quote from "Community leader, Pierre Eksteen, who is in charge of a school support network for children."

He "told reporters outside the deserted school grounds that Satanic music was probably the cause of the attack.

"He came here camouflaged as the guys from Slipknot. We know the wrong kind of music, and drugs have bad effects. Young people need to be informed of the effects of bad Satanic music," said Eksteen."

And this is what Chris Roper said, in a rare non-televised interview: "With community leaders as dumb as this, it's no wonder kids go crazy. Dysfunctional kids will always find a reason to be screw-ups. Charles Manson claimed to kill for God, and George Bush does it for Democracy. Satan does not in fact write music, although he does on the odd occasion do backup vocals for Celine Dion."

Also, the idea of a kid camouflaging himself by putting on a horrible mask and dressing in black is slightly counter-intuitive. Surely he'd have been better off dressing as, for example, a community leader? I mean, even I'd notice a guy with a demon mask, and I live in Cape Town.

This is tragedy, and I don't want to be too satirical about it, but come on - surely we can understand that kids turn to nu-metal and punk because their lives are screwed up, rather than the obvious fallacy that they become sociopaths because of the music?

Making things worse

I'm not saying that listening to bands like Slipknot can't exacerbate the problem, because it does, in the same way that watching a Quentin Tarantino movie, reading the Old Testament, becoming a fan of a Dutch soccer team, or joining the ANC Youth League are all the same grist to the mill if you happen to be an arsehole looking for a reason to destroy. But none of those things in themselves should be banned (except maybe the ANC Youth League... no, not even them.)

Here are some Slipknot lyrics for you, from Disasterpiece, just so you know what sort of thing we're dealing with.

"I wanna slit your throat and fuck the wound/I wanna push my face in and feel the swoon/ I wanna dig inside, find a little bit of me/ Cuz the line gets crossed when you don't come clean."

Now you might think they're pretty outrageous sentiments, and you'd be right. But they're also pretty standard for any blockbuster movie nowadays, so what you gonna do? You're the ones sending your children off to take in some popcorn and gratuitous violence every Saturday, not Slipknot.

The answer is hinted at in another Slipknot song, called All hope is gone.

"The state of the nation - violation!/ A broken promise is as good as a lie./ The hell is humongous, the Devil's among us/ And we will burn because we won't unite!/ We won't witness anymore freedom. / Where is anybody? Do we need 'em?/ I would rather fight/ than let another die./ We're the problem/ but we're also the solution/ All hope is gone."

After the Columbine High School shootings, they tried to lay the blame on musicians like Marilyn Manson. When they asked Manson (who cancelled three concerts in memoriam of the tragedy), what he would have said to the two killers, his answer was: "Nothing. I would have listened, because no one else did."

That's it right there, as trite as it is. I don't want to paint killers as poor misunderstood victims. While there might be reasons for their choices, there are no excuses. If you've killed someone, you're a killer. But we need to face the fact that we're the ones creating our problems, not some American band peddling the same violence as Saturday morning cartoons.

  • Chris Roper is not a fan of Slipknot. Go to www.chrisroper.co.za to leave a comment.

    (Lyrics sourced from fan sites, so there might be a word or two out of place.)

    And bonus lyrics from The Boomtown Rats' I don't like Mondays.

    "And school's out early and soon we'll be learning / And the lesson today is how to die./ And then the bullhorn crackles/ And the captain crackles/ With the problems and the hows and whys./ And he can see no reasons/ 'Cause there are no reasons/ What reason do you need to die?"

    Send your comments to Chris.

    Disclaimer: News24 encourages freedom of speech and the expression of diverse views. The views of columnists published on News24 are therefore their own and do not necessarily represent the views of News24. News24 editors reserve the right to edit or delete any and all comments received.

    - News24

  • Comments have been closed for this article.

    Rizelle 8/20/2008 9:06:20 AM
    Chris,you obviously haven't seen people possessed by satan before and I can understand that,because if people do believe that satan exists,they will believe that Jesus exists.and that is the first step to being saved&be set free.that is why satan won't reveal himself to people who don't believe.I believe that God is real and I have seen manifestations and supernatural workings of both the devil and of God.I hope that you won't stop seeking for the truth.I like the fact that ur open-minded.
    Mike Turnbull 8/20/2008 9:11:53 AM
    Chris Ropers commentary on the Krugersdorp tragedy hits right at the heart of the problem. I am sick of idle, self centred parents blaming eberyone except themselves for the appalling behaviour of their offspring. The two worst things that ever happened to this world are child psychologists and social workers. The third worst is self appointed, self opiniated, bigoted, ignorant religious nuts who like so many parents, seek scapegoats for their own failings. Lets try listening and not blaming ...
    Ant 8/20/2008 9:13:12 AM
    I think the kid should be tried as an adult and given a life sentance! I think the talk about "the devil made me do it" is absolute rubbish!!!!!!!!!!
    Kolobe 8/20/2008 9:14:54 AM
    I read the lyrics and I am really shocked,slit a throat and have sex in the wound, thats evil,I cant imagine that a human being can even think of this kind of lyrics!I agree with the principal, how any song can really encourage slitting throats?this music should really be banned from the music stores.
    Leungo 8/20/2008 9:16:20 AM
    It is clear in this case that all that the child needed was someone to talk to cos he clearly had problems. But what were the chances of that when his parents admitted to have not been in his room for a long time. That really shows the kind of family he comes from. If the parents had paid any attention to him, they might have noticed his weird behaviuor and swords. But he made the choice to kill. No artist from Slipknot held a gun to his head and told him to kill. It is tragic but true.
    Avril 8/20/2008 9:17:56 AM
    Hansie Cronje also said that and he listened to Steve Hoffmeyer and Kurt Darren.
    Rosemary 8/20/2008 9:19:41 AM
    No discipline at home or at schools, no parental guidance and too much Liberalism. In the past we all had to do what we were told or else!!! used to work.
    Seth 8/20/2008 9:19:57 AM
    Nice article Chris, it is refreshing to see that someone agrees with me that you can't blame people's actions on what they read, watch or listen to. People kill people not movies, books or music. If you kill someone you are already unstable enough to do that, I will bet all the money I have that watching violent movies and listening to music does not suddenly convert a person from a law abiding person to a murderous idiot.
    Joe 8/20/2008 9:20:56 AM
    A good column Chris. I agree with you. What makes these children listen to this music in the first place? Besides, it's all to easy to blame this attack on a bunch of guys who sing and vomit on stage. And also, why are all Slipknot fans not rampaging killers? It's the parents and the friends who should be looked at.
    Baldy 8/20/2008 9:23:24 AM
    Right on - You have the situation in one - Very good article
    hellbilly 8/20/2008 9:26:49 AM
    I agree 100 % , its never a person fault , its the music , its the games , its violent mobvies blah blah blah . From this attack we can see this young man obviously had some problems , but to blame on music is just plain nuts If he listend to rap or rave music would it even be msntioned in the news at all ? and as much as i may like my new mwtal , well slipnot is crap inmo
    Michelle 8/20/2008 9:27:43 AM
    If you look hard enough, you will find twisted words/lyrics anywhere. Even in whichever version of the Bible you choose.
    Anon 8/20/2008 9:28:07 AM
    Why is "metal" given the blame but never rap and R&B? I am sure many of these gangster dress up like their role models and are inspired by their lyrics. But then again why give music the blame at all?
    J Cilliers 8/20/2008 9:32:06 AM
    Thanks Chris, for speaking out about this - I totally agree with every word written here, and I'm also glad you posted some lyrics of the band in question, especially the quote from Marilyn Manson... Kids today need that more than anything. Listen to them people, and get to know them!
    stan 8/20/2008 9:33:05 AM
    Society today tries to hide behind easy targets to divert the attention form the real problem, society itself!! All these fancy groups & such, Anti-HevyMetal this, Anti-Violent Video Games that, are all blinded by the fact that our kids are not given an oppertunity to speak & to be heard. Kids who have problems stem from families who have problems. Parents who would rather listen to some person slam violent games than listen to their kids, as Manson so clearly & logically pointed out.
    Odette 8/20/2008 9:33:49 AM
    @Chris...I thought along similar lines when I read the news reports. I was appalled at some of the statements issued by so-called community leaders. The boy could very well have a mental illness, there might be drug abuse. What about his home circumstances? Instead of looking for exotic "answers" he should be properly assessed and the appropriate action and punishment must follow. Sensationalist statements do nothing to prevent future tragedies and the real problems and solutions are ignored.
    turbo_superboss 8/20/2008 9:36:31 AM
    good points all round, I wrote something on the influences of mainstream culture on my blog a year or so ago. Even the powerpuff girls have major influences on our youth which are not necessarily positive.
    BosV 8/20/2008 9:36:32 AM
    What would they have said if the boy was a fan of curt darren or jurrie els?.well probably the same if he was a jurrie fan?
    Get Real 8/20/2008 9:38:55 AM
    Spot on! What more needs to be said. We have fell so deep into the analysis of our own problems that we have be come the problem. Demented heroes like snoop dogg have bocome idols, I mean I guy with a criminal record so long, the Australians did not even want him in there country! The example we set is the example we will get. Evil is just in us, waiting to be released in fury! Then some kind of Psychiatrist or psychologist will define it as differently.
    Craig 8/20/2008 9:39:35 AM
    I agree with you wholeheartedly
    Boesman 8/20/2008 9:40:16 AM
    What I've said previously I'll say again. The only people to blame in this incident, is the child's parents. Parents love to blame an external influence on their kids' behaviour, but they don't seem to realise that it is their duty and responsibility to bring their children up correctly. I am a stalwart Christian, yet I do not care what you think music/movies or games do to influence your children. You are suppose to teach your kids what is wrong and what is right. Your responsibility.
    psycobabble 8/20/2008 9:40:46 AM
    As a famous thespian once said."from of a mans thoughts come his deeds".In the global context we have also witnessed recent gruesome behaviour with that beheading and cannibalism in Canada and one of the eastern countries,random multiple stabbings in Japan.British kids stabbing each other to death daily.Images and words do infect young minds fertile with imagination with tragic consequences.
    Andrew 8/20/2008 9:42:04 AM
    Chris, some kids idolise these satanistic groups, particularly kids who have behavioural problems and/or are easily influenced or misled. The councellor's comments were contextually correct to a degree. Your negative comments regarding this guy, in fact, show up YOUR lack of knowledge of troubled/damaged children. Leave the psychological profiling to those who can. Also, a very cynical piece. It's rather obvious you live in Cape Town
    Clarence 8/20/2008 9:43:44 AM
    That's exactly it. People are great at pointing fingers because who really likes to be blamed anyway? I listen to My Chemical Romance, which (maybe not at depressing as Slipknot) can get pretty bleak! But everyone makes their own interpretations & this kid is probably so demented anything could have set him off. You can't shield your children from everything and he chose to be that way! He must take responsibility. Devil made him do it? I wish I could blame my mistakes on a mythical creature as well. Like... god. We may as well blame Eve for eating the apple and putting us in the world and exposing us to sin... you get the picture.
    Nick 8/20/2008 9:44:07 AM
    I cant believe that educated people believe that music is to blame for other peoples actions. This is plain and simple, the Goverment/Education System/Parents are to blame, all three of these institutions failed to see/ignored the problems this young man had. Stand up and be counted, dont hide behind others. Disgusted!!!!
    Sandelk 8/20/2008 9:44:37 AM
    Tend to agree with you Chris, this boy was out of control for a while and no one was there to help him. People are always looking to shift the blame from themselves onto something else. Great, objective article.
    Justin 8/20/2008 9:45:45 AM
    I especially like the quote from Marilyn Manson! I enjoy his music but does that make me a potential killer?? You cant blame the music, kids turn to these things once the damage has been done and twist it (the music) in such a way so as to use it as "fuel" for the anger!
    taurus 8/20/2008 9:46:05 AM
    Didn't know you had it in you, but I read this piece with awe. Hope the dominees/community leaders also read it. It is my opinion that if you want to know the state of a nation, listen to its artists. I think those lyrics All Hope is Gone are incredibly poignant. (Can't vouch for the music.)
    SeanO 8/20/2008 9:47:05 AM
    An absolutely sensible and balanced article with a sprinkling of fun (which we all need). Unfortunately, there will be many out there who do not agree, because blaming something or someone else is a lot less painful than admitting to being a bad parent. Society and the world in general is a horrible place, so it is paramount that WE guide and prepare our children..
    gummibear 8/20/2008 9:47:29 AM
    In my teen years they said Rap was to be blamed for the violence at the time. Then I aged & mellowed and people said Aids was to blamed on sexy R&B. If music is the case then singing the National Anthem must be to blame for the Springboks poor performance.
    Anti-Christ 8/20/2008 9:48:01 AM
    I am a Satanist! proud to be one and bloody pissed off at this crap being thrown on our doorstep because one freak psychopath has found his calling in the blood of another. Satan, music or whatever did not place the sword in his hands... you all look at one aspect of influence the the obvious I mught add.OMG people go watch Halloween the - the Rob Zombie version.it's damn near close to this freaks actions. If this was from Satan then he'd addmit it being him doing it. As Satan is the very Human!
    Avatar 8/20/2008 9:48:56 AM
    Nice read, I listen to slipknot and when I heard them being blamed I knew it is just a cop out. Blaming something else because people can't understand that they might be to blame. People allowing their kids to be parented by TV and Radio? Lazy. It bad to listen to slipknot they say but it is alright to play grand theft auto and watch that new movie that makes Arnolds kill rate in Total Recall small by comparison. I am sure the zealots will be here any minute to thump you for talking crap in their eyes. Anyway, earphones on, listening to Slipknot.
    realist 8/20/2008 9:51:39 AM
    I agree with you Chris, blaming some musician for their warped take on life is ludicrous. If now 15 or 20 kids, all listening to the same music, went on the rampage, then I'd be worried but one isolated incident is hardly a generalisation. Therefore I say this is a tragic incident which sadly happened, if there is anyone to blame, blame the school for not having the security measures to prevent this. Blame the parents, however Ted Bundy was a saint practically, so that might be harsh on them.
    Cape Town Kid 8/20/2008 9:52:30 AM
    I think there are many of us searching for answers and yet again we will fail simply becos we all wanna shout and be heard and sneek off to our comfortable homes and pretend that we have "served" a commmunity.This is a very serious situation and I think that PARENTS must take the lead.It is only thru their strength and LOVE that we will begin to find ourselves. Also, music has a huge role simply becos it adds to the ritual. Dont be too dismissive of it.
    mark 8/20/2008 9:56:38 AM
    Music is neutral, similar to a TV...on it's own it is harmless, but it can be used in both a positive and a negative way. In my youth i listened to many metal bands and it did effect my mood in a negative way, but that is because of the lyrics, not really the music. I now have many heavy christian bands with positive lyrics and it now effects me in a different way. Its still our choice what we do in life though!
    Craig 8/20/2008 10:00:29 AM
    It is quite the norm nowadays to blame all your faults and shortfalls on somebody else, there isn't a drug dealers, rapist or murder in the US who's father didn't rape him, mother neglected or left him or was bullied at school, and then they listens to the chanting monks and slashed, shot or blow up a few innocent people. It's time the murders took responsibility for their actions and its time the press stopped writing moronic phycho-babble to excuse the little sh*ts.
    Sunshine 8/20/2008 10:01:54 AM
    Well said Chris, It is so easy to blame the music and the band when this kid obviously had major issues with himself and those around him to do such a thing.
    Johann 8/20/2008 10:02:52 AM
    It is evident that the 2 of you do not have children. When I take my kids to school, I make sure they are neatly dressed, hair is combed, I pack their lunches every day and I check their bags. Now my question is: What is the size of a Katana? How the hell did he get that past his parents? Wait...how did he get it onto the schoolgrounds? Surely someone saw it and should've queried. No, adults turn a blind-eye - that's the problem!
    Big Bad Bob 8/20/2008 10:03:19 AM
    As more facts emerge it becomes clear that there were warning signs about this kid, a history of anti-social behaviour on his part, and a history of violence at that school. In fact the school seems like a basket case with a teacher carrying a stun gun and using it on learners! Pastor Pierre is doing everybody concerned a large disservice by blaming this tragedy on "satanic" music. The school and the counsellors working at that school have a lot of explaining to do.
    Philosopher 8/20/2008 10:05:47 AM
    Millions of kids have it far tougher than this killer. Many don't even HAVE parents to "not listen to them", yet I don't see them slicing throats open with Samurai Swords. This liberal claptrap is bullsh*t. This guy was just EVIL, with a capital E.
    Big Bad Bob 8/20/2008 10:06:09 AM
    As more facts emerge it becomes clear that there were warning signs about this kid, a history of anti-social behaviour on his part, and a history of violence at that school. In fact the school seems like a basket case with a teacher carrying a stun gun and using it on learners! Pastor Pierre is doing everybody concerned a large disservice by blaming this tragedy on "satanic" music. The school and the counsellors working at that school have a lot of explaining to do.
    TC 8/20/2008 10:06:48 AM
    I remember kids calling me a satanist at school for having AC/DC - Fly on the wall painted on my school bag (what a joke). Some people have sick ideas. Anyway great article.
    Speedy 8/20/2008 10:08:47 AM
    I hope you are not talking about Alistair Crowley or Anton Lavey, they both form part of the Unholy Trinity. I urge all of you and please you as well Chris Roper do some research into these two people and you will find some answers to questions people have asking around this killing and its link to Satanism and Music. Anton Lavey has openly admitted that Marilyn Manson is doing his thing for Satanism. If we go back in history there are many links of muder to Satanism, guys like Ramirez(the Nightcrawler), Sam(Son of Sam). So don?t knock until we have all the facts in palce. P.S. Anton Lavey was the High Priest and Founder of the Church Of Satan as well as wrote the Satanic Bible. questions people have asking around this killing and its link to Satanism
    Ann 8/20/2008 10:10:50 AM
    It hasn?t been divulged yet, but I?d like to pre-empt any blame on the economic background this kid comes from. It has been insinuated that a lot of these kids come from poorer dysfunctional families. But I know of many teens who do who do not turn to unhealthy outlets to find a connection to. Why? Because their parents, albeit lower income earners, take the time to connect-listen and respect their kids, earning respect back. Remember the Columbine shooters both came from very well to do families and lived it a very wealthy neighborhood. However they were both disconnected from their families BECAUSE of the luxuries that the money provided and allowed for separate living, just as long as they stayed out of the way
    Kane 8/20/2008 10:12:37 AM
    It's true. Another thing about the media which is pathetic is that if someone listens to metal (or bad nu-metal in this case) that is what fuelled them. But if they were a Christian then all of a sudden it's the devils work and the boy is the victim. Sadly the world is run by a bunch of ignorant, blinded and backwards society of neo-conservative Christians. There is no God, there is only you. Take responsibility
    MC 8/20/2008 10:16:24 AM
    "You are suppose to teach your kids what is wrong and what is right. Your responsibility." - So once a parent has done that, and the kid still do the wrong thing, who is responsible? The parents or the kid? When does it end? When the kid is 12, 15, 18, 21, 30? I know of 45 year old people that still blame their parents for the wrong choices they are making now! When do you start taking responsibility for your own actions?
    Bridget 8/20/2008 10:16:40 AM
    But the fact of the matter is that there is not necessarily anyone to blame, even the parents and the teachers. Because in any community there are some people that are unstable. It happenes all over the world. Mostly no-one sees it coming because it isn't predictable. There is no why. Sometimes they aren't poor misunderstood individuals, they are just insane because they are, no-one's fault.
    Monty 8/20/2008 10:16:52 AM
    Right on Chris! People always need something/someone to blame. It's never them! If it's not satan it's satans music(slipknot which I happen to enjoy, although I haven't hacked anyone to death!) or mxit is blamed for childrens bad school marks or pokemon. Have these people never heard of responsibility? All these christians here are probably of the opinion that if he were listening to gospel he would not have done this! Ha!
    Syllable 8/20/2008 10:16:55 AM
    It has become too easy to blame other people and events for everything that goes wrong. If it isn't people who don't understand the "direct" translation (which just happens to come out as "we will kill"), it is Satan, because really, what has he done lately? I do believe it comes down to the kind of upbringing he's had. Has his parents made it clear that he can always talk to them if there is anything that bothers him; have they laid the right foundation to distinguished between good and evil?
    proud to be white 8/20/2008 10:18:33 AM
    People will always look for something to blame instead of trying to search for the main reasons,after colombine,there was actually no music by manson found in any of the two boy's rooms,but yet manson was blamed for it,people who say music is blamed for this,are dillusional foolsmmusic is just music,if you are already fu***d in the head,any type of music can "make" you do something like this,great article chris.
    Nico 8/20/2008 10:18:40 AM
    Good article-thx Chris. I would just like to add that people should think twice when having kids. Its a huge responsibility .We are living in a rushed society with people not feeling anything for anybody, and clearly not enough for their children .The fact is people are not spending enough time with their children anymore and their is no Christianity at home or at school. We should bring Jesus back into our lives and start caring and listening for our children and one another
    Syllable 8/20/2008 10:19:10 AM
    I listen to metal; my friends listen to metal, and for the most part we are well-adjusted adults. I do believe that a lot of things that is going wrong with the youth these days is the lack of discipline. Bring back corporal punishment, I say!
    colin 8/20/2008 10:22:46 AM
    The fact is that the boy was influenced by SLIPKNOT and they as musicians should be responsible enough not to proclaim the killings of people. We as parents need to stand up against the media and entertainment industry and demand that music and movies of this nature be regulated with the toughest of laws and kept out of the hands of our children - I for one will not allow my children to listen to a stupid band like SNOTKOP (sorry SLIPKNOT)
    Tim 8/20/2008 10:23:02 AM
    Just a thought, If Slipnot is horrible for Thier lyrics is JZ horrible for his? Or maybe it is in the interpretation there of? I agree with chris, we do need to look more directly at our selves.
    cvz - Manson Fan 8/20/2008 10:24:30 AM
    Parents are to blame, end of story. Instead of spending time with their kids, and gettin to know them, they buy them playstations and cd's and expect that to take care of them. BTW, i listen to Manson on a regular basis, with my 18month old son, and he loves it, along with other bands my hubby likes, Steve hofmyr etc. as long as it has a nice beat, we have a great time dancing along....to all the pro-christians out there blaming this kids' death on Metal, grow up, pray 4 the victims left behind.
    Oom_Kosie 8/20/2008 10:24:36 AM
    I think we should ban Vivaldi music, because Hannibal Lecter listens to it! And remember, Heidi is satanic because she plays with goats! How is it possible that people like this exist? It's the 21st century, not the Middle Ages! I think what Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds sing must be the truth: "People just ain't no good." Oh, and they also sing a very good song about a man killing everyone in his local bar, in graphic detail. That must be why I killed all those people. Oh wait, I didn't...
    Mart 8/20/2008 10:25:14 AM
    Although i agree with the fact that parents should except responsibility. Please bare in mind that satanism is very real, there are countless books about it, people who used to be involved in it. and yes, certain music is evil!
    DJR 8/20/2008 10:29:55 AM
    I agree with you 100% Chris, just because heavy music comes into the picture, its seen automatically as an excuse. Why wasn't there a witchhunt on 'groetste boere treffers volume 3' in the case of the Waterkloof 4?? That music is more closely linked to satan in my opinion :)
    Brett 8/20/2008 10:31:13 AM
    Can't say I was surprised that music took the flak for this one. I've heard some of the riduculous claims made by the overly religious about music in general. No-one seems to rememeber that whatever is current gets the blame. The Eagles were accused of being satanic in their day. People looking for excuses will find them, wherever they want to. His tastes in anything had very little influence. A weak mind can be influenced but one cannot blame the influencing source for that
    Krants 8/20/2008 10:34:19 AM
    I am a heavy metal fan, have been since 1982 and I'm almost 40 now. I have heard all the angst, read all the violent lyrics and put up with idiotic sub-genres like emo, nu-metal and the worst of all, grunge. All these genres needs one to be angry at someone; yourself, your parents and the establishment. These are just phases, like in real life, and the relevant musos know exactly what nerve to touch so that they can sell millions. I blame the parents and teachers and irresponsible preachers.
    Wolfgang 8/20/2008 10:35:15 AM
    There is an old saying written a few thousand years ago - "as a man (human being) thinks so he will be". I have personally seen children of various ages mimicking actions they saw on TV to their own disaster. I have seen people of various ages acting to what they listen to constantly - even justifying it when what they did was wrong. The term we use for computers - "garbage in garbage out" is very relevant. Parents need to wake up and look and read (the lyrics) what children look at and listen to
    The Truth 8/20/2008 10:37:11 AM
    Grand Theft Auto cannot even come near to the kind of words which "Slipknot" use in their (poorly written) lyrics "I wanna slit your throat and f... the wound"! I mean c'mon people,even if this kind is music is not Satanic,it is evil,violent,irresponsible and serves no purpose but merely brainwashing these kids and turning them even more against any kind of authority.
    Michael 8/20/2008 10:39:02 AM
    That says it all in my book. Another case where everyone did "chickens without heads". Odd how the one who was blamed showed the most sense. For those who are interested, look up the interview of Manson where Columbine came up. You will be enlightened to find that the man shows way more sanity than most folks.
    aj 8/20/2008 10:40:33 AM
    It is disturbing that nobody worries about what our kids listen too. Everybody says blame the parents and take responsibility but nobody on this forum seems to think this music is morally corrupt. And many others openly support Satanism over Christianity. Isn't being responsible making sure kids stay away from this drivel, and accepting that it does influence bahaviour?
    Buffy 8/20/2008 10:41:03 AM
    I listen to all music but prefer the heavier stuff and to date... have not killed anyone. If you are a psycho fruitloop you will do what you set out to do whether you listen to marilyn or celine - although i must say celine would push me over the edge too. Its nothing to do with religion or music, when the chemicals in your head are off centre and you see kitties as fair game the chances are strong that you will do something ghastly and bizarre. Once again, brilliant article Chris
    JP Strauss 8/20/2008 10:41:57 AM
    Cape Town Kid and Justin have good points: Music isn't the cause of the anger that so many of us feel or have felt, but it certainly can add fuel to an already raging fire. I can tell you from personal experience that putting on a metal CD when you are already pissed off or depressed, can send you into a violent rage. While it is not the cause, it surely is a significant part of the problem.
    Warren 8/20/2008 10:44:31 AM
    I fully agree. These musicians come from the same circumstances as this kid. Circumstances created by their families, community leaders, society in general. They choose to express their frustration through music & the kid did it through actual violence. Also half agree with an earlier comment that pschycs & social workers the worst thing to happen to this world... well I believe they're the best and the worst... just like leadership...
    Mabs 8/20/2008 10:44:53 AM
    This is simply another cop out by a bunch of guulty people cause they missed all the signs, and never paid enough attention to their kids. Music does not drive anyone to kill, a lot of these musicians aren't even into satanism, their music is there to sell and provoke a reaction, if you're not making parents hate it you're not selling period. As far as blame blame should lie with the boy himself and his close support unit of friends and family. Pay attention to your kids, its not all that hard.
    The Truth 8/20/2008 10:44:54 AM
    Hear hear! For once I fully agree with you both,very well said.The discipline and healing of a nation starts in the family home.
    Ex-Metal Head 8/20/2008 10:47:53 AM
    Good article Mr. Roper. I, as many teens went through "the metal phase". Black eyes, lips and everything else to boot. But I never went out killing people for kicks. You can't blame the music. Blame those who are meant to shape the young minds, and instead hinder growth and personal development.
    Priest fan 8/20/2008 10:48:14 AM
    I grew up in a "house of heavy metal". My peaceful little christian family and I listened to Judas Priest, Ozzie, Pink Floyd, Iron Maiden etc. Can you imagine how ludicrous this "blame it on Heavy metal" sounds to me? These are kids who dont want to conform to the teeny bopper pop fans (dont blame them much) and then go completely haywire and place themselves into just another crazy fake stereotype, that was created for them by teacher and parents.
    ari 8/20/2008 10:49:07 AM
    Satan always gets the blame from the religious. They always end the analysis there never figuring out the real cause for the problem. Unless we determine the real reason for this child?s problem they will not be able to help other children in this situation.
    Jenny 8/20/2008 10:49:32 AM
    The youth of SA is in crises. If you're white and in matric - boy or girl - you probably won't be able to get a job even if you can afford to study. If you're black and in matric you probably have a family to support and in the process of making more mouths to feed. Our country is savaged by Aids, crime, despair and hate. It's a miracle that not more killings like this are happening. At least this time Slipknot's taking the blame instead of racism...
    Liz 8/20/2008 10:50:19 AM
    MY HEART GOES OUT TO THE DECEASED, PARENTS, SIBLINGS AND FAMILY AND FRIENDS, NOTHING WILL BRING HIM BACK AND THE PAIN WILL ALWAYS BE THERE, HOWEVER I FEEL SORRY FOR THIS YOUNGSTER AS WELL, BUT IF HIS PARENTS NOTICED HIS WITHDRAW SYMPTOMS, WHY DIDNT THEY DO SOMETHING?? I SUPPOSE THERE ARE DOZENS OF QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS STUDENT, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS HE IS SCARRED FOREVER, IMAGINE LIVING WITH THAT PUNISHMENT !!!
    Boitumelo 8/20/2008 10:51:52 AM
    It is so easy to lay the blame elsewhere, we were all kids once and guess what we grew up, u cannot blame ur circumstances for the person that you essentially are and want to be... The fact is this kid killed someone and hurt others, HE DID IT!!! And truly he should face the circumstances, I truly dont feel sorry for him, but for poor Jacques who is now dead, and way before his time. RIP Jacques
    Peter 8/20/2008 10:51:59 AM
    Well done Chris - smack on the head - but easy on the Punk Rock music, bru! There were many truly great punk bands out there like The Clash and I do not recall any doos ever killing for them. Wankers like The Sex Pistols were gone in no time. Music will not make you kill - your parents, shit religious views and idiotic community leaders should shoulder more blame. What else was their collective influence doing while Psycho IX was growing up?
    Les-Maada 8/20/2008 10:52:59 AM
    Slipknot have to do with some Kid on a killing spree..?Nothing!!(I'm slick/I reap ya neck quick/I reap out ya Jagular & take a sip/& never get caught i'm too slick/).Thats what i was listening to at age 17 But it never influenced me to even kick a neighbors Puppy.The school & his Parents need to be blamed for different reasons not Slipknot!!And Chris!!I'm an ANCYL member & as sane as 2PAC,not you!
    silverza 8/20/2008 10:54:19 AM
    And they say violent games do not impact children in a negative way? Music you hear via your ears, these violent movies & games you watch with your eyes... how can they NOT affect these kids. They are de-sensitizing us. I don't think music is solely to blame though. The global society promotes violence through movies and games, as well as bullying (did you see last night's epi of Survivour?); sexuality at younger ages etc.
    The fisherman 8/20/2008 10:54:59 AM
    As a youngster i was told not to listen to Black Sabbath, KISS, Deep Purple etc because it was the devils music. Did I listen? NO. And today I am a hard working , law abiding citizen who hasn't killed anyone.....yet, ha, ha, ha.
    True Blue SA 8/20/2008 10:56:01 AM
    Prison is too good for killers - nothing LESS than the death penalty will do. Quickly you will see the murder rate drop - no repeat offenders of those sentenced death and excecuted!!
    Marlon 8/20/2008 10:58:08 AM
    i'm quite sick of everybody blaming metal when someone committs such acts. He claimed to be a satanist and he was on drugs.He obviously hated alot of ppl.where was his parents?? couldn't they see that he needed help?! or were they too busy working to provide him with a good enviroment to live in?! what about the kids that go to school with guns that don't even listen to metal?? why aren't their cd collection gone through and why aren't 50c blamed?
    Cynical 8/20/2008 10:58:29 AM
    It is so amusing to see how many people play the blame game in SA. If it were an Olympic sport, SA would probably win Gold, Silver & Bronze. I'll bet that those who blame Satanic music for the K'dorp incident are the same type of people who blame banks for their indebtedness or blame the teacher for the children's poor performance.
    Paul 8/20/2008 11:01:20 AM
    ......if the problem is not the American band or it's "music", is it perhaps the fact that the boy was allowed (by his parents) to listen to the perverted filth?
    Bern 8/20/2008 11:02:05 AM
    I listen to Radiohead, depressing and bleak on my way to work. But I take the steps to my office with a happy spring. If I'm out for a drink, Motorhead and Lemmy's bizaarly hilarious lyrics often keep me company. I thrash my head to Motorhead's music but the car's speedo stays at 60 and I'm home by 8 and asleep by 9. My trip to my weekly quiz competition, of which my team is a regular winner, is done to AC/DC's Highway to Hell or Back in Black. But neither Satan nor Jesus has kidnapped me...
    Timato 8/20/2008 11:03:03 AM
    One does what one thinks, and you are more likely to think of harming others if you listen to music that describes such harm for hours per day. If a movie portrayed what is described in the lyrics, it would be banned or at least given a stiff age restriction. Lyrics must be screened and the music banned or restricted as appropriate, just as with movies. To say that the music played a role does not, of course, rule out other circumstances that also contributed to the event.
    Jack the Ripper 8/20/2008 11:03:23 AM
    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) IS THIS EVIL? No. Because obviously every Christian will retort that the New Testament has changed all that. So don't quote Lyrics out of context, it's equally ridiculous. And stop blaming Satan. People are stupid, accept it.
    Solution is SO simple 8/20/2008 11:03:30 AM
    Maybe if our pathetic government brings back corporal punishment, some sense can be beaten back into kids. It worked for thousands of generations, now that we get soft, everything turms to crap...do the math... and PS, that goes for crime/death penalty as well...
    John 8/20/2008 11:04:32 AM
    We live in a country where the government deems violence as acceptable. We brag about the percentages being reduce by one or two points. Kids go to school armed for crying out loud. The ANC youth league president gets on a podium and threatens the nation with violence and we accept this. This has zip to do with bands & lyrics. We live in a violet society and kids will not stop this kind of thing until violence in any form becomes unacceptable until it is dealt with by having a zero tolerance appo
    Valiant 8/20/2008 11:05:31 AM
    rather listen to slipknot than Celine Dion.
    Zweli 8/20/2008 11:07:59 AM
    whilst there is a bigger problem out there. The truth is this music is only good for the devil. Together with drugs it's a wonderfull to get to the children. The children idolised these musician so they easily and stupidly believe anything they say. We all need to admit that. But most importantly let us use our energies in dealing with real probles like PARENTING, DRUGS and satan himself.
    Metalhead 8/20/2008 11:08:31 AM
    Thanks for this article Chris, I have listened to metal all my life I find it ridiculous that leaders are blaming this child's actions on musical influence. This is putting every person that listens to metal into a catergory of "evil" as the fundamentalists on all sites have said. When someone kills in the name of God we don't go blaming christian music do we????? Marilyn Manson said it best. Learn from him and maybe this won't happen again
    Zweli 8/20/2008 11:10:11 AM
    whilst there is a bigger problem out there. The truth is this music is only good for the devil. Together with drugs it's a wonderfull to get to the children. The children idolised these musician so they easily and stupidly believe anything they say. We all need to admit that. But most importantly let us use our energies in dealing with real probles like PARENTING, DRUGS and satan himself.
    Gordon 8/20/2008 11:10:34 AM
    Nice one Chris......
    Shrek 8/20/2008 11:13:14 AM
    Yip, agree with you Chris. Before you know it, every criminal in this country will be blaming satan, music and who knows what else for their actions. What a joke!. Anyway, stop blaming satan, he is in Zim.
    FOTA 8/20/2008 11:16:01 AM
    Everybody is looking for reasons that absolve themselves of blame or responsibility. Even Pierre Eksteen can almost certainly be heard talking about "Gods Will" when it is more like "free will". ... BUT ... Rizelle .. please send me a contact number for your demons. I collect Samurai swords and would appreciate home delivery. I assume that the kid that did the stabbing got the same priviledge. Give God a break, he has better things to do than babysit disfunctional families.
    1 Carat Diamond 8/20/2008 11:16:29 AM
    Thank you for writing down what has been jumbling around my brain for 2 days. I have just been so irritated, that putting it into words seemed impossible. This is why they pay you the big bucks; Not only are you real funny, but your opinion is exactly like mine on the matter - which is always the sign of a superior mind, isn't it?
    Kane 8/20/2008 11:17:16 AM
    Please, for those Christians who are saying there have been Satanic killings, why don't you go back a few hundred years to the Christian belief system, where they would burn to death innocent people, thousands of them. For having seizures (which they said was posession), or having physical deformity claiming they were witches. They were no more backwards as you are. And they did far more damage than 'Satanism'
    Nikki Botha 8/20/2008 11:17:18 AM
    BRILLIANT. Thank you Chris Roper!!!
    Mark T 8/20/2008 11:21:43 AM
    Does Rap music also have violent lyrics- I guess it is to blame for so many gang related killings. How many cult leaders have been religious people? So hymns made them do it. We have to face reality- it is the person concerned that has to accept responsibility for their actions. No game, movie, music, book etc can be blamed. It is the individuals mind that has the cracks. Other instruments do influence that mind, but psychosis cannot be blamed on that. There are other factors that turned the pero
    Theresa 8/20/2008 11:22:07 AM
    Most of the comments made here are by people who can apply their mind. Is there anything we can do?
    The Truth 8/20/2008 11:22:37 AM
    I am a bit pissed off with having to read your continued cowardly insults and attacks on Christianity over the past few days.We all know that Christians and their religion are not perfect,but we are nowhere near as twisted or disturbed as those of you who choose to serve the embodiment and true cause of all evil in this world,past and present.May you all rot in Hell (you'll all probably enjoy it there anyway).
    Lauren 8/20/2008 11:23:59 AM
    Fantastic column Chris. Very interesting read! I do, however, have to disagree with the people on here writing that it is the parents fault, bla, bla, bla - come now. The guy is big enough and ugly enough to know right from wrong. He is a killer. Plain and simple. No one else should take responsibility for his actions. Most parents have no clue what their kids are getting up to these days. Not a good thing, but hardly their fault that this one resorted to murder. Finger pointing is useless.
    The Truth 8/20/2008 11:26:31 AM
    Just to end off what I said to you yesterday.It doesn't matter if you or anybody else stops believing in Him (He is very much alive by the way),He will never ever stop believing in you.Think about it.
    Martin 8/20/2008 11:26:32 AM
    Hell, I used to be a Sex Pistols nut in the 70's - you know "I am the anti-Christ, I am an anarchist" etc. etc. Geez, I even wore black alot. But I certainly didn't want to kill anyone. In the the world we live in today it's just too damn easy to blame someone else for your problems. Lack of upbringing and discipline I believe.
    L Savage 8/20/2008 11:30:25 AM
    Easily the best opinion of the incident I have read to date. As a society we have a need to find someone or something to blame, whether the parents, the school, the government, other schoolkids, music, tv, movies, games etc etc etc. We do this so that we can feel safer. Reality is the killer was seriously messed up psychologically. The reasons for this are likely very complex and, more importantly, specific to the individual. Possibly there was something that could, in hindsight, have been done to help this person before he committed this atrocity, but as we all know, hindsight is 20/20.
    Met Uysh! 8/20/2008 11:30:57 AM
    Chris, there is a disease in society, and that is that people don't take responsibility for their actions. People litterally get away with murder. They go to jail, and escape, or get released or dockets go missing - we all know the stories. At the same time, children do not learn, for some reason,that there is consequences for their action,once again, responsibility.Discipline is terrible at schools, but it comes down from basic things such as obeying traffic signs.Our society has become lawless.
    ag-ja 8/20/2008 11:31:21 AM
    Rap & Hip-hop music should be banned. Clearly it is driving Metal heads insane!!!!
    Anna 8/20/2008 11:36:26 AM
    "He came here camouflaged as the guys from Slipknot. We know the wrong kind of music, and drugs have bad effects. Young people need to be informed of the effects of bad Satanic music," said Eksteen." The effects of bad education is much more harmful to children (and adults, not unlike yourself Mr Eksteen)than the effects of the 'wrong' kind of music.
    Avatar 8/20/2008 11:36:49 AM
    So according to your reasoning, hearing music that tells you to kill people is bad, but playing an interactive game that allows you to kill, steal and beat random people into a pulp is OK? Either way I still don?t think music or games should be to blame, not even religion which has a far greater kill score than the media. It all starts with the person, in this case it was just seen to late or he would be sitting in a padded room.
    Slipknot Lover 8/20/2008 11:37:10 AM
    I really like slipknot's music. I also like Amy Winehouse. People are multi-faceted beings that are allowed to have different tastes. Just because I listen to slipknot does not make me a satanist or a murderer. Stop using Music, Videogames and Movies as scapegoats. All the above have age restrictions, maybe they should be adhered to. Take responsibility for your children. I listened to slipknot when i was 16 and I turned out just fine.
    PAM 8/20/2008 11:37:21 AM
    He is very real and uses anything to accomplish his mision. music, mvies, etc. He targets the vulnerable and the gullible. We must look past the visible to see the invisible. There is a spirit behind everything and in this case a demonic spirit IS behind this music. Yes parents need to raise up their children in the way they should go as these children were given to them by God. He is the only creator of life. Return to Him, the author and finisher of our faith.
    Stephan 8/20/2008 11:37:22 AM
    I don't doubt that these lyrics are intense. I do listen to slipknot and varies other metal bands myself. Never has any of these lyrics or songs made me want to 'Kill'. I believe that this is because of a strong morale base that tells me that this is music and reality is vastly different. I don't believe that the parents are the only ones to be blamed but I do believe that they are guilty of neglect. So is the school and the friends. These emotions do not happen over night.
    marlene 8/20/2008 11:40:25 AM
    CRAZY CRAZY to blame a band, It is the kids fault, so dont say he did not know what he was doing, he is a adult, he killed, he knows what he did, Send him to life in prison. he deserves it. What about the poor parents of the dead child. every body says shame to a killer, not shame to the other boys parents. they must now find out how they are feeling.
    Julz 8/20/2008 11:42:04 AM
    I have listened to music along the lines of slipknot, Manson, type o negative, system of a down etc for the majority of my life, and oddly enough, have never been inclined to randomly (or strategically) kill people. I wonder if this is a sudden thing and how long I have left until it catches up to me. Hmmm. Great article - thought you were going to stop writing about stupid people though. Oh well - guess some of them (here's looking at you Pierre Eksteen) really deserve it.
    Theresa 8/20/2008 11:44:07 AM
    How do you stop it before it happens?
    Excalibur 8/20/2008 11:46:52 AM
    As parents, provide a positive example, close family ties and open communication at home. Make decisions on the friends your children are allowed to have, meet the parents of their friends. Promote healthy activities, sport, family time. LISTEN TO YOUR KIDS. And yes, vet their music and movies, because kids are easily mislead. Not by Satan but by warped people. Lead, guide, mentor.
    rosemary 8/20/2008 11:48:00 AM
    Michelle I challenge you to quote ANY twisted/lyrics from the Bible!!!
    Nikola 8/20/2008 11:48:17 AM
    It's back to the old Satanism blame game. Every time a kid goes off the rails and happens to listen to the darker side of the alternative genre out come the religious leaders spouting Satanism and blaming every alternative band with lyrics that veer on the left side. I suggest looking for the real root of the problem instead of fabricating a fairy story. Personally I find a future president who's theme song is 'pass me my machine gun' slightly more disturbing.
    Kamen 8/20/2008 11:49:19 AM
    It's not about God or Satan et al. It's about you being the crafter of the personality of another human being as a parent - tough job - if you are not up to it - don't have kids - As a parent u are in charge! Don't abdicate your responsibility to others i.e God , Satan , SOCIETY , t.v. , MUSIC ETC !
    colin 8/20/2008 11:53:42 AM
    None of you are right all you do is to defend your oven point of view and that is all it is your view - Everybody is to be blamed Media 24 our Jurnos the community at large and our government Rap artist and Heavy metal Artist - believe me there are musicians out there how actively choose to be responsible and use lyrics that are acceptable and have some message and is not destruction - we need to go back to the days when we had artist like the Temptations who sang about love and musicians like Luck Dube and BOB MARLY who used there talents as musicians to attack evil regimes and injustice in our society.
    Privarth 8/20/2008 11:58:10 AM
    Really good, thought provoking article Chris. We are all focusing on the music that the disturbed accused listened to, but I was wondering what this kid was doing carrying around a samurai sword? Free access to such weapons comes with responsibility, and I would be interested to know from the parents where the sword came from and why did the boy have access to it? I am sure that there were many factors that led to this incident, but what can parents look out for to prevent these incidents?
    maggot for life.......... 8/20/2008 11:59:24 AM
    then we must ban britney speares for promoting teen pregnancy, we must ban all hip hop, kwaito and rap for promoting gangsterism and violence-which is way worse than slipknot as rap gets radio play.people are just afraid of what they dont understand and looking for an excuse to bad parenting. people please dont comment on a band you know nothing about, it just shows how ignorant you are.
    Melinda 8/20/2008 12:00:15 PM
    As one of the "two worst things that has happened to the world", a child psychologist, I have to say that you are full of it. Who do you suppose are there to talk to these kids when their parents are so busy focussing on their careers or making ends meet that the kids fall through the cracks? If anything, the problem is that there aren't enough of us, and that people like you are too closed minded to realise that sometimes a young person needs serious professional help, rather than just a klap.
    thalion 8/20/2008 12:02:06 PM
    Whether you believe there's a Satan or not. It doesn't matter. What does matter is that a lot of children grow up without authoritative role models i.e. parents. That's why these kids turn to the music. They can identify with it, whether the band has good or bad lyrics/intentions. I certainly think that music with a more positive message would help - but it doesn't address the underlying issues.
    Reaper 8/20/2008 12:02:29 PM
    Point taken - but Satanism is a recognized religion just like Islam, Christianity and all the others. Tell me, how many people were killed during the Crusades in the name of Christianity/Catholicism...and that was completely justifiable according to most.
    GH 8/20/2008 12:05:26 PM
    I?ve been listening to Slipkot and other worse bands for over 15 years now and I newer felt the urge to kill or harm other people. I was brought up properly without any psychopathic tendencies.
    Eddie 8/20/2008 12:05:46 PM
    I love fighting about religioun. A bunch of adults, arguing who has the best imaginary friend.
    evokoder 8/20/2008 12:06:58 PM
    Religion is really messing this country up. As soon as we realise that's it's all a big money-grabbing, controlling machine then all these problems begin to dissipate. We have been tricked into believing that we can't possibly function on an individual basis, or societal basis, without the fear of god being our guiding light. We think, in this country, if somebody doesn't believe in god, there's something wrong with them. Easy - no god, no satan. NO EXCUSES!!!
    Carl 8/20/2008 12:07:23 PM
    Heavy-metal noise like that (I refuse to call it "music") pushes unstable minds over the edge. Some of those lyrics should be criminalised. The only person who matters here is the victim. If you want anyone's opinion, you should ask the deceased. I bet he doesn't appreciate metal noise anymore. How much metal noise is worth the value of a single human life?
    kam 8/20/2008 12:07:35 PM
    you obviously haven't heard the other stuff that is out there.
    Mo 8/20/2008 12:10:12 PM
    Most of these albums with offensive or violent content have a wonderful sticker on them that says "PARENTAL ADVISORY"! Shall we repeat that first word again? "PARENTAL"! Regulate your kids, not the music industry!
    JR 8/20/2008 12:10:41 PM
    The world lack discipline and moral values. The world has been misdirected by the psychologists and psychiatrists. I find it amusing how they say, let kids find their own way. Very well, but kids need guiding and direction. this is the problem in the world today. This is also the reason behind all the corruption on this lovely planet.
    Metallica Man 8/20/2008 12:11:17 PM
    So many comments about how satanism/music made this kid kill. How about the Crusades in Europe, people killed in the name of god. I wonder what music they were listening to then?
    aj 8/20/2008 12:13:35 PM
    Blame games. Denial games. Perception games. Excuses agmes. Religious games. Let him who is without sin throw the first stone... Where has love gone? What happened to forgiveness? You become what you keep your mind occupied with - Read that in any ancient and late scriptures and decent spiritual writings. So many things may contribute but the main culprit is lack of love, lack of fogiveness, lack of understanding. We are all one, all responsible. Let us all start acting that way, help a neighbour
    The Truth 8/20/2008 12:14:53 PM
    I for one know the difference between a video game and reality.This boy obviously didn't.I am betting that he listened to those sick words over and over again until he could recite them in his sleep.Children are very impressionable and naive.They are not equipped to always tell reality from fantasy as (most) adults are,and his fragile mental state obviously exacerbated the issue.
    hexen 8/20/2008 12:17:45 PM
    If these lyrics inciting violence should be banned then we should ban Julius Malema for" killing for Zuma" & ZUma himself for his machine gun song. The points is where do you draw the line on censorship...I mean the bible is a pretty violent book ..should we ban it??
    Dan 8/20/2008 12:18:09 PM
    In my case, the devil seemed to use christians to accomplish his mission. the fact that christians do not realise that they continue to exhibit the most non-christ like behaviour, will always stop them from taking responsibility.
    Dave the wave 8/20/2008 12:18:56 PM
    Seriously, why can satanism not be allowed? Provided they are not killing people and animals etc ;) If Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus etc can do their thing, why not the satanists as well? I got not issue with it. Just another religion.
    Janoah 8/20/2008 12:19:16 PM
    ...it is to hard to look at the real issues here...let's just blame some bad lyrics. So true of SA "leaders" never taking resposibility.
    Jedim@ster 8/20/2008 12:21:44 PM
    Good Article Chris! Agree with you completely, its always better to blame other than blame yourself! Everyone is always looking for an excuse! There's that old saying: "There are always more fingers pointing back at you than pointing at someone else!"
    Kanyisa 8/20/2008 12:21:59 PM
    thnk u very much for an insighful piece..Chris...I totally agree with u...why must we blame our problems on America all the time...interesting read..

    inside news24

    Cpt: 13-19°C More sun than clouds. Mild. Pta: 7-16°C Sprinkles. Morning clouds. Cool.
    Jhb: 6-14°C Sprinkles. Morning clouds. Nippy. Bloem: 2-15°C High level clouds. Nippy.
    Dbn: 14-24°C Mostly sunny. Mild. PE: 13-20°C More sun than clouds. Mild.
    7 day forecasts...
    Western Cape Eastern Cape Kwazulu Natal Gauteng

    Randburg - 18:14:15 PM The carriageway will be reduced to a single lane for roadworks between Beyers Naude Drive and the Malibongwe Drive exit until 5pm More traffic reports...

    Here are the winning Lotto numbers from the Saturday, July 4 draw.

    1, 9, 17, 18, 22, 38  Bonus 20

    Lotto Plus: 7, 11, 17, 19, 20, 26  Bonus 47

    SMS the word Lotto to 31222 to get lotto numbers sent directly to your phone.
     
    More lotto numbers...

    Jobs - Find your dream job

    Analyst Developer

    Western Cape - Cape Town
    Quiglies Solutions
    R25,000-30,000 Per Month Cost To Company Negotiable

    Developer / Analyst C# ASP.Net

    Western Cape - Cape Town
    Quiglies Solutions
    R25,000-30,000 Per Month Cost To Company Negotiable

    PORTFOLIO MANAGER

    Gauteng - Johannesburg
    Evrst Business Solutions

    Cars - Search 1000's of new and used cars

    AUDI

    A4’s From R199 000

    VOLKSWAGEN

    New Golf GTI From R317 300

    RENAULT

    Grand Scenic 1.9dCi Privilege MPV Dsl
    2008
    189900

    HONDA

    Civic 1.8 VXi
    2007
    162990

    MAZDA

    Mazda6 2.0 Original
    2009
    239000

    Property - Find a new home

    MIDSTREAM ESTATE

    Single Residential 5,500,000

    ELDOPARK

    Single Residential 2,730,000

    WOODLAND HILLS

    Single Residential 2,650,000

    Travel - Look, Book, Go!