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Questions of faith
09/07/2007 09:16 - (SA)
Jon Qwelane
I don't get it, I simply just don't get it, and it really makes no sense at all.
At the risk of unintentionally offending devout believers, I simply don't get why God should have a mother. And before unsolicited lectures come my way regarding theology and belief, I have absolutely no need for them, thank you.
The same goes for all those who wish to inform me that I am "stupid" and will have to account to God for my doubts about "his mother".
A Benoni teenager has been the talk of the town in recent days about her claimed visitations by the Virgin Mary, who allegedly has made a habit of perching herself on the girl's bed and chatting to her about all sorts of things.
The faithful (or gullible) have been descending on the girl's home for "blessings" and a hope to catch a glimpse of God's "mother"!
This week there was an annual religious ceremony in Belarus, where Catholics observed the festival of the Mother of God of Budslav. Very confusing, and not because of any lack of religious knowledge (to those who still might feel inclined to give me lectures).
Three in one
All this confusion, I believe, was started by the conference of the first century which was held in Niceae by the leading theologians of the day to reconcile the old and new testaments.
It was the Nicene Creed which brought into Christian dogma the idea of a three-in-one God, which gave the world the beings God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. That creed has been an article of faith ever since, even though there has never been any proof except "faith" advanced for that state of affairs.
But any logical argument about God, assuming he does exist, would dictate from theological teaching that he has always been and was neither "born" nor "created". The the line normally taken by theologians when explaining the birth of Christ is that he was God born of a woman, in order to identify with human beings so they could better come to terms with the reasons for his coming to earth.
Christ himself went on to preach about the Holy Ghost, but never equated it with God.
This belief that God has a mother conjures up all sorts of questions not least of which, for me, is the law of first causes: who made God or, put another, where did God come from? If he has a mother, then who was his father? His uncles and aunts? Does he have any cousins?
Tracing lineage
And so on one could go, and try to trace God's lineage back, just as we ask about anything in our universe - for example, where did the primordial atom which "exploded" at the instant of the Big Bang come from?
To this one, most people answer that it was everything rolled into one: space, time, and energy. To which we could still ask: "But where did the space, energy and time come from?"
If I really took the Benoni teenager seriously I suppose I would troop down to her home, because she lives just 15km from my house, and ask to be allowed to sit with her in the hope of sharing (or disproving) her claimed visions of the "mother of God" - I could put some questions to the apparition.
In Islam, quite sensibly, one never has a conundrum about God having any relatives. The religion considers it blasphemous to talk like that about God because in Islam, he has no mother, no wife, no son, and no relatives.
Jon Qwelane's column is published each week on News24, courtesy of Jon Qwelane and the editor of Sunday Sun, which originally carried the article.
Send your comments to Jon.
Disclaimer: News24 encourages freedom of speech and the expression of diverse views. The views of columnists published on News24 are therefore their own and do not necessarily represent the views of News24.
- Sunday Sun
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Questions of Finance( sorry faith)
09/07/2007 09:47
I can't agree with you any more. A question I have though is 'how much has Miss Zacky made in "Volantary Donations" she has received' ?
Simply put, it is just another 'Charismatic' way of getting money out of someones wallet and into hers! Most of us call it business, others call it faith. - Allan Bulloch |
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I believe....
09/07/2007 09:57
Jon. Great article. For the record, I am Catholic and believe in Mary as the mother of God - but irrespective of beliefs, your article is very thought provoking, and well written.
And anyone who does feel offended, should do a bit of thinking for themselves.....for if you truly believe, another person's comment in contradiction to your belief, will have no effect whatsoever. - Thinker |
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Family of God
09/07/2007 09:59
Interesting point of view. The trinity God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, is the same thing actually. It is just different ways God shows himself to us. God does not have a mother, this is a religious point of view which has been taken out of context. God needed a body and used mary to be born to be able to die as a person for us. She was a good person, but anyone could of been used. Jesus who died is the key not Mary, she was blessed because she followed God, honor her but dont worship her. - Jason |
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call it finance or faith
09/07/2007 09:59
its sad too see what the world has become, when they use their religion as a source of income, stealing away from people who do believe, sometimes hurting them (blinding them!!!!) is she sorry of the pain she has caused i think not just so long as the dough comes rolling in.!!!!!!!!!! - tazz |
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paganism?
09/07/2007 10:04
I don't know where in history the trinity concept came from. But it is evident throughout Scripture that God is referred to in singular (Yahweh) and plural (Elhohim). To me Scripture seem to be describing God like a family (gesin in afrikaans) which is one entity. This is unique amoung all cultures (as far as I know).
But adding Mary to the family is reminiscent of paganistic goddess worship (why should we pray to Mary?). Where does Scripture elevate Mary to such a divine position? - Carl Kirstein |
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Nail on the Head!
09/07/2007 10:06
Very very well said! - Vovo |
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No answers to silly questions John
09/07/2007 10:06
You are looking for logic where none exists John. Religion is inherently illogical and unfortunately, when taken to its extreme, will probably result in us all being done in by some or other religious nut who either gets his hand on a nuclear bomb or into the White House. - Chris |
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Faith is not a virtue
09/07/2007 10:11
It is true that doctrine of the Trinity and the Catholic obsession with Mary are two of the more glaring problems with Christianity. It is also true that Islam is free from those particular problems, but of course Islam and the Koran have their own share of absurdities.
Believers come up with all kinds of lengthy rationalisations, but for the objective observer there is only one possible conclusion: all religion is bunk. Religion simply does not stand up to rational scrutiny.
It can also be argued that religion is not only illogical but in fact harmful to society, but unfortunately openly criticizing religion is frowned upon. For some reason having religious faith (i.e. believing something for which you have no proof - in essence being gullible) is considered a virtue.
Luckily there has been a slow stream of authors that are willing to break the taboo. I can recommend the recent books by Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Daniel Dennett to anyone who want top learn more on these subjects.
- Johan van Rensburg |
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Questions of faith
09/07/2007 10:35
Before comments are made or articles are written, one should obtain all the facts or do more research about the subject especially when commenting on religion... - Believer |
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Who is Virgin Marry?
09/07/2007 10:36
No doubt this girl did see something. The question I have is ,How does she know what she saw was REALLY the virgin Marry.After all the bible describes Satan as the master of deception. Had she ever seen a photo of her to conclude that what she saw was the REAL Marry? Just because she got a woozy feeling doesn't necessarily prove anything. - 49cent |
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doubting Thomas
09/07/2007 10:41
Sometimes these things are hard to understand for our tiny unexperienced brains.Jesus existed before Mary but Jesus became human through the virgin Mary to fulfil the promise of God.The Holy Trinity is God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost, they are inseperable and therefore can be seen as one entity.Mary is a popular figure in the catholic belief.In the protestant belief she was not as significant as she was a human.Space and time?ask Einstein as he was a firm believer in God :-) - anon |
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Interesting indeed.
09/07/2007 10:45
Religion is a complete farce. In modern times, with the advances in human knowledge and free society it is not hard to see that religion still sits inside a very small, close minded box. Get a grip people! Religion was spread via colonialism. It was the worlds first form of propagandha, a way to create morals and to restrict people through fear. The idea that one defined "being" created us is a narrow minded human idea that holds no credance when held up against proven sciences. - Sean |
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Questions of Faith,
09/07/2007 10:51
I'm afraid you got this one wrong Jon. What Jason said is correct. God does not have a mother, He chose to be born through a mortal woman so that he could die as a human and set us free from our sins. I am not a catholic, but I am a christian. I do not pray to Mary, but to Jesus. The way to heaven is through Jesus, not through Mary. - Me |
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I'm disgusted
09/07/2007 10:54
Have you ever heard of keeping quiet if you don't know what you're talking about?
Faith is all about your personal relationship with God, which includes his Blessed Mother.
If you don't believe, I pray that you will be touched by God. But please just stop discouraging believers, we have enough evil in our world as it is.
Isn't it amazing how quick people are to ditch God and then they wonder why the world has come to what it is today.
Think before you criticise. - Dee |
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Faith IS a virtue
09/07/2007 11:01
To Johan van Rensburg.
Your opinion is obviously not your own. Yes, it would be interesting to read the books you've mentioned, as a matter of fact, I'm busy with Richard Dawkins' book. But it has not in any way changed my beliefs. Do the world a favour and make up your own mind, don't let other people do it for you.
Jon. As always, great article. Wish the other columnists would learn a bit from you. - Me |
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Faith
09/07/2007 11:14
Jon, the keyword of this column is in the title, i.e. faith. Missed it? It's not science, it doesn't have to be proven. It is simply faith. Whether you believe that Jesus had a mother or not, is quite irrelevant. The fact that you don't 'get it' makes you a normal human being. Humans do not 'get' God. He is the creator, you the creation. Maybe you should also refrain from making simplistic comparisons between religions, as there are many more things to consider than just one point. - JohanL |
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Fact and Truth
09/07/2007 11:17
The one thing I appreciate about Christianity is that it is one of the very few religions where the events mentioned in the Bible can be ALL factually proven. Yes, one needs to have a lot of faith. But suppose you don't, I suggest you take some time (might take you number of years, literally) to conduct your own fact finding investigation. More than just fact, Christianity is the truth (facts can be altered...). - Athi |
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Pray for John as well
09/07/2007 11:41
The way I always try not to explain spiritual matters to an unsaved individual is by asking a following question, and no offense intended to the blind community, "how do you explain a colour brown or yellow or any colour to a blind person?" In this case an unsaved person is spiritually blind to the things of God. One must and please note MUST accept Christ as Saviour for ones life to be redeemed from going to hell. So the challenge here is that we (save by the Grace of God) need to pray for John - Sizwe |
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Zackey
09/07/2007 11:48
Growing up in the East Rand, my memories of the Zackeys normally involved fist fights not religous convictions.... ha - Alan |
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Well said Jon
09/07/2007 11:50
The mother an child symbolism is displayed in many different religions and not a concept unique to christianity (catholicism). i dare say praying or worshipping Mary is a form of idolatory.
Cheers - IceCreamMan |
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substance of things not seen
09/07/2007 12:03
it is quite logical to believe on things not seen by reasonably coming to such a conclusion in the absence of any other sense. even those who say they dont believe actually do believe by saying they dont. it becomes absurd with the emotional blackmail such as the case of this young lady and many others where gullible people follow without applying their God given gifts to reason and choose, it's a pity religion created some of these absurdities like the worsip of mary, etc otherwise it adds up. - rlb |
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Faith,
09/07/2007 12:05
I think you are looking for easy answers to define your existance and in the process find acceptable what conforms to your charactor, no rules. What does the Bible say about the rich.Can you see God in the person begging at a street corner or must you first rationalise why he is there or does his color matter.Regarding Mary, God selected her, who are we to differ, never heard that he selected the Mohammed. - Ric |
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Not all believers believe in Mary
09/07/2007 12:05
One thing that people have to get straight is that only certain sections of the Church (think Catholic and Anglican) believe in saints, Mary as almost God, etc. Believers from Baptist, Methodist, etc churches believe that Mary was merely a human, used for God's purposes. I think the girl from Benoni is a schizophrenic with delusions and should see a pshychologist. Some people with delusions think they are Jesus or Nelson Mandela, or are seeing angels, etc - Gloria |
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A question of faith
09/07/2007 12:07
Thanks, Jon, for mentioning in your article that you find the claims of science ultimately no less confusion than those of religion. May more of us gain the insight that both, in the end, are a matter of faith. Ridhard Dawkins and friends are not doing anything fundamentally different from the young lady from Boksburg - and raking in the sheckels to boot! - Leendert |
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Nothing wrong with a little faith
09/07/2007 12:10
I enjoy your columns Jon, always thought provoking and, like everyone else, you are entitled to your opinion. I am sceptical about the visions in benoni but do believe that there is something out there far greater than us - this miserable human race on this little planet simply cannot be it in the greater scheme of things surely???? - Another believer |
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Many forms of faith
09/07/2007 12:15
It's ironic how many 'non-believers' believe the theory of evolution - but don't count it as a religion because it's supposedly 'scientific'. This shows a complete lack of understanding of the subject of evolution. No scientist worth his salt claims that evolution is a fact. It's a best-guess theory for which there is no evidence, and the proof is at best, theoretical. Download and view some videos of Kent Hovind (a scientist himself) debating other, leading scientists. It's very educational. - Anon |
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Jesus
09/07/2007 12:17
Jesus is only a profit not God, It makes more sense to pray to God directly. Jesus was sent down by God to save us, just like God sent Noah,Abraham,Moses etc. - MP4 |
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Faith is blind
09/07/2007 12:21
I lost my faith before I read any of those books and I don't agree with everything in them. I recommend them because they contain thought provoking ideas on topics that most people would not be exposed to otherwise. You accusing me of not thinking for myself is very ironic. Religion is the ultimate example of authoritarian groupthink. You believe what you believe because were told to believe it. If you had grown up in a different place or time you would have worshipped a different god or gods. - Johan van Rensburg |
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Faith
09/07/2007 12:30
What I want to know is why is Christianity not unified. Why are there so many Churches, different Bibles, what is the correct Bible to believe in. Christianity is quite confusing I say. - Comment |
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Science works
09/07/2007 12:32
Leendert, the big difference is that science works whether you believe in it or not. Whether it's the clean water coming from your taps at home, the Hubble space telescope or the computer you are using to read this - it's all thanks to science. Faith plays no part. I'm sure that if you cut yourself you are going to grab antiseptics and a plaster, not a holy book. - Johan van Rensburg |
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Johan
09/07/2007 12:35
You say believers believe what they believe, because they are told to believe it. Why do you say that? I've never been 'told' to believe anything. I believe in God because to me, it's a logical conclusion after researching many theories and religions. We didn't simply come from nowhere. Christianity and the history of Jesus has more facts than you might think. It's not a story - it's history! That means it really happened. - EG |
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It is amazing
09/07/2007 12:36
How we require proof for everything but when it comes to religion all rules of proof etc goes out the window, I can imagine how many people will be content when their boss says that they must believe that he paid their salary and that the empty bank account is just testing their faith... and doubting or questioning this faith will get them fired or sent to jail... maybe they should give that boss a book to read called The god delusion by richard dawkins... - Daniel |
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dee
09/07/2007 12:37
what i don't understand is why people are offended when a non-believer gives his/her opinion, why can't people question? and there's 'evil' in the world because of non-believers... right. - dust |
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Perhaps simplistic, but good, nevertheless
09/07/2007 12:38
While the comparisons may be simplistic, the question is worthwhile. It's good to see public questioning of religion in a world where religion is accorded undue levels of respect with no good explanation of why that should be.
The answers from the religious side always come down to the same thing - faith is required because there is no way, or possibly simply no willingness to determine the validity of that which is given as truth. - C |
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Nicea
09/07/2007 12:39
Unfortunately you do not ask your questions from a point of knowledge. Any mainstream minister, and should be believer, can answer those questions for you. If you really are interested in answers, rather than just raising controversies, I'll mail you the areas in the Bible where this is covered. Alternatively, you can read The Catechism of Heidelberg, which records, answers and explain the basic concepts of the Christian Faith.
Then you can argue from a point of knowledge. - KoosS |
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Something must have come from nothing
09/07/2007 12:40
Jon, by applying logic it should be clear that at some point, regardless of when, something must have come from nothing. Ultimate truth is also timeless and doesn't change just because human interpretation of the truth changes. What the ultimate truth exactly is I cannot tell you, and neither could anybody else since it is beyond the minds of us mere mortals. - Francois |
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