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African "democracy" strikes again.
05/12/2007 08:38
the more things change (or should that be "transform"?) the more they stay the same. People get the government they deserve, that's all there is to it. - Anymouse |
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Agree 100%
05/12/2007 08:49
I agree with you absolutely. Don't think it will, happen, though... - CJ |
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Female President
05/12/2007 08:52
The president of the ANCWL opposed the nomination of a female president and now the very same president of the ANCWL is planning a march to oppose the nomination of the man (Jacob Zuma, what hypocrisy. - Female President |
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Zuma wins
05/12/2007 08:55
If the people of SA voted today for a president Zuma would win hands down. Wouldn't work mate, he has the poor's support through his campaigning and popularist messages. I think I'll stick with the ANC delegates voting as they might pick someone else. - Michael |
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Not a bad idea but has flaws
05/12/2007 09:04
This is not a bad idea but it has its flaws like the current system that we have at the moment. Imagine the following scenario, De Lille wins and becomes the president, Cyril Ramaphosa the deputy (or vice versa). These people have different polocies and how to implement them. Do u think they will support each other or they will fight during their office term, plotting to oust each other? - Pasta |
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No Real leader
05/12/2007 09:04
Max a brilliant article once again, however Nkosazana Dhlamini-Zuma should not be allowed to hold public office let alone be considered for a presidential nomination.
If either Zuma or Mbeki are elected for ANC president South Africa will defiantly be the poorer for it. Neither candidate have shown any integrity in actual fact both morals are openly questionable. Where is Tokyo, Cyril, Phumzile, Patrice, Nozizwe or Trevor.
All of whom would go along way to restoring the faith in governmen
- Gary |
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I'm so angry too!
05/12/2007 09:15
Yeah, I'm also angry that Cyril Ramaphosa took a back seat in all this. After a lot of people showed confidence in Ramaphosa as our ideal statesman, I think he betrayed us all by not running for president and choosing to concentrate on business. If men like him with the calibre, brains and attitude to be the perfect president are slowing back like this, who's supposed to lead us? Ramaphosa betrayed us! - Sello |
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Hands off...
05/12/2007 09:23
The DA elected their own leadership, no one dared to question their choice of leadership and in the process they topled Joe Seremane,so did the FF,ACDP etc. please leave the ANC to select its leadership in peace.you will vote for the president of your country in 2009. - kolobe |
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Right idea, wrong mindset ...
05/12/2007 09:23
Max,you're spot-on with your suggestions re the separate presidential election. The one tiny flaw is not in the idea,but in the fact that we're STILL a young democracy and there's an awful lot to do in terms of education and inculturation as to how and why democratic processes work. As it is, we have a mostly democratic framework sitting on top of a population (ALL races...) who have greatly differing views on what democracy means. And distinctly undemocratic responses to anyone else's views... - Cynicus |
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True democracy
05/12/2007 09:31
Until politicians can be held accountable for their actions by the voters we don't have a true democracy. The ANC won't change the current system, because it suits them perfectly. A while ago a commission under Van Zyl Slabbert suggested at least a partial return to constituencies, but the ANC rejected this. Elections are popularity contests, they divide the country, not unite. It is time we stood up and demanded REAL democracy. Max, how about starting a NGO to bring democracy to SA? - Ben Johnson |
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yep
05/12/2007 09:36
it's like our dear Evita once said: "...now we have freedom, but we don't have a voice". nice example of democracy we have at the high levels - captain ubuntu |
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Nice Try Max
05/12/2007 09:39
Hello Max. The black govenment came to power recently- 13 years to be exact. The ANC struggled for more than 100 years to remove the National Party from power. As a think tank do you really see this happening in the near future ? Do not insult the ANC. While I agree that Mbeki should have made way for another candidate, I don't see the ANC changing policy for petty reasons you have mentioned above. Maybe the new leader will take us forward after the Conference. Let's just "HOPE" in the mean time - Doink |
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More to the story
05/12/2007 09:39
The picture of the current situation is not complete. The biggest problem is Mbeki standing. Why didnt he forward a female and step back. For this reason, I don't blame ANCWL.We should not have a female president for the sake of it. How many countries have female presidents?. I think Tokyo will stand, but it is too late. The battle is very personal and other candidates are told to step back so that Mbeki can be dealt with, and Zuma looks like he can sort out Thibos. - PAT |
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Constitutional Amendments
05/12/2007 09:45
1. No, leader of majority party should be head of government. Bring back a "symbolic" head of state. 2. Yes, bring back constituencies so that we know our MP. 3. Massive YES. Scrap floor crosssing. It is nothing more than electoral fraud. 4. Hold ministers and MPs accountable. No delivery, No job! - Jim |
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Never a truer word written
05/12/2007 09:50
"I think we should also bring in a new constituency system so you can have a local Member of Parliament whom you can go to when you have gripes or problems. For as long as members of parliament are determined by the party hierarchies, we will never have proper accountability.
And while we're changing that, can we now finally scrap the disgusting floor-crossing custom please?" I could not agree more - these two points are at the root of the problem with our politics and politicians.
- Dave Robbins |
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We need better leaders
05/12/2007 09:53
We need someone with new ideas, someone who will drive this counrty positively into the future. Why have we got these two questionable men to choose from when there must certainly be someone more compitent. The people of this country are like sheep - they follow blindly. WAKE UP PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY!!!! - Wynand |
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Hear hear
05/12/2007 09:56
Great idea Max and I believe JQ will have a few choice words with you(when you remove your tongue from its current resting place) - Nhlanhla |
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U missing the real issue
05/12/2007 10:06
The real issue is the need for strong opposition parties to emerge then your suggestion of presidential election might work. As it is now u cannot have a populist like de Lille running for presidency while her party has +- 10 members in parliament. You cannot have more than 1 person from same party running for Presidency.
Ask for a strong opposition party first, then your suggestion will become viable - MKT |
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ANC-POLOKWANE
05/12/2007 10:11
its so good to see what the up-coming ANC conference in POLOKWANE has done in terms of opening up debate( ANC members and non-ANC members) however the solution to the SA current crisis is a new political party which will not have a source of referance to the past, issues such as BEE and AA wont be part of, the reason why so many people are oppose to the ANC and DA its their association with the past, POLOKWANE will mark a turning point in SA should the wrong people be elected - CAREFUL |
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Power hungry idiots
05/12/2007 10:14
Mbeki is over 60 so is Zuma. If both of them would like to see their many years of working towards free SA paying off, they would let someone young, energetic and results oriented run for presidency i.e Cyril, Tokyo, Trevor, Tito Mboweni.One would expect them to understand these through the examplery leadership of the ANC before TM Mbeki Presidency.Mandela,Winnie,Sisulu,Thambo,G Mbeki,Luthuli etc.when it was time to go they left.Chissano of Mozambique, Arapmooi of Kenya,KK of Zambia etc. left. - Goddy |
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People have spoken
05/12/2007 10:22
People ave chosen Zuma because his possess what they want. If you disagree with nomination of Zuma, you are insulting the majority (i.e. undermining their intelligent. We must also stop insulting Mr Zuma (our next president), lets give him a respect he deserves. Mr Mbeki is selfish, he had his chance but he still contesting. I do feel that there is something he hiding and he fears that once he leaves presidency he might be prosecuted. His behavior is scaring(the ways he fires and protect some) - Bafana |
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Floor Crossing
05/12/2007 10:24
Who was the idiot who thought that floor crossing is a valid thing to do? It is criminal, cause if you bribe someone to come to your side you did not deserve the people's vote, you stole it! - Jacques |
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great article MAX
05/12/2007 10:32
for the first time in a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time you wrote something which actually makes sense, and smells more like Democracy than anything else in this country! - Great |
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the masses are not always right
05/12/2007 10:35
even in the majority, they could take the most stupid decisions, so yes I also agree that the head of the MAJORITY party should NOT necessarily be the one calling the shots. There are other minority groups in SA as well and democracy is supposed to give EVERYONE a vote, not exclusively to "mass" voters brainwashed and indoctrinated by political leaders! - Country |
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Doink? the NP party reigned for 100 years?
05/12/2007 10:37
hehehe good one my mate, stop talking politics and start talking sense! BOINK! - heheh |
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CONSTITUENT SYSTEM
05/12/2007 10:40
This system may not work in a country that is still divided by race.For it to work,there has to be some form of communal intergration and currnet experiences show that this is not possible.Furthermore no one is barred from joining the ANC and influencing its elctoral processes.So it shouldnt be as if the election of the ANC president is the preseve of a few.It is actually a democratic process which starts at the grass roots.So please stop dictating to the party on how and whom it should elect. - MAXX2 |
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Laughable democracy
05/12/2007 10:57
This country has a farcical "democracy". Why should we even have something like a president? I'd much rather see us change completely to something like the Swiss system: Zero ego and 100% efficiency because it simply is a technocracy where _everyone_ gets to vote on _everything_ . That means that politicians would have almost zero power then (which would actually make them a lot more useful). I know - I'm just dreaming - it's going to take another 200 yrs before SA rediscovers true democracy.:-( - Hopeless |
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Bafana
05/12/2007 10:57
The people have not yet chosen what they want. If they are given only two choices - one who by law may not run again, and the other who (rightly or wrongly) is under a cloud but is the only remaining option then what choice is that? - MJ |
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OUR NEW SLOGAN; "SPILL THE BEANS"
05/12/2007 11:11
The picture of Tony Yengeni being carried into the gates of Pollsmoor Prison by his mates..most of them Senior ANC officials. Scandelous!
Obviously the ANC populous adore and idolise those who thwart justice, like Tony, Jacob, Jackie and who knows how many thousands more.
So what the hell, what about Tony for President.
I am just getting madder and madder, and am ashamed of the leaders of our country. Now Thabo wants everyone to "Spill the Beans". Pres. Mbeki, take the lead and SPILL - Alicia |
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Floor Crossing is unconstitutional.
05/12/2007 11:27
How could the Constitutional Court condone floor crossing in a proportional representational system?
The Electoral Act apportions seats to a political party based on the proportion of votes it receives. Those seats belong to the party, not an individual who is nominated to represent it. It's tantamount to allowing a salesman to take his company car with him when he moves to a new company! - David |
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Power to the People
05/12/2007 11:28
And not the 'chosen few' who make up policies behind closed doors. Democracy is taking a backseat. - Sinudeity |
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you had ur time, give us a chance
05/12/2007 11:28
Max and your fellow racist brothers leave the ANC alone. your broederbond brothers had 48 yrs in office what did they do except getting SA in a mess we find ourselves in. so those who benefitted from apartheid must shut up and let us and ANC DECIDE OUR FAITH. FORWARD WITH MBEKI - lebo |
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Constituent system
05/12/2007 11:34
That will be a good idea only if jailed to Robben island and going to exile was not a passport to parliment. its about time to vote another party. The problem with DA,ID,IFP,UDM ect they are busy watching what the ANC is doing insttant of selling their policies to people of this country. We need a srtong apposition part which will not be intimadated by this bully ANC. - sam |
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Jacques
05/12/2007 11:52
It was Tony Leon and the Democratic Alliance - Mxolisi Selby Shabangu |
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Thabo is protecting ANC values and traditions
05/12/2007 11:53
Mbeki is interested in leading the organisation he sacrifised his life for, since the age of 14.so stop confusing issues because he is not running for SA presidency. he doesnt want opportunist like Tokyo and Zuma to take over and destroy an organisation that has a rich history. - lebo |
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Shame
05/12/2007 11:56
So the mighty ANC has only these two losers as candidates? Why can't we have a leader that can actually make this country work? I feel better because Zuma can't be a worse leader than Robert Mugabe - or can he? - Frank |
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Floor crossing
05/12/2007 12:05
Jacques, The DP and NNP were the ones who suggested the floor crossing remember? About Mr Mbeki, this man is pathetic if you want a woman president give way and let the same woman be president of the ANC and for president of ANCWL to say Dr Dlamini-Zuma cant stand against Mr Mbeki that show she is more evil than Mbeki and they both wanted to use the poor women to persue their cause. For letting people vote for ANC president Zuma will win anyway how many poor people out there so forget it. - Kamo |
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100 years
05/12/2007 12:08
Boink - Don't paticipate in a political debate if you are ill informed. The 100 years I am referring to is the so called "White Supremacy"
Do I really have to spell that out for you ? Go and take a shower !! - Doink |
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Who is Zumming Who?
05/12/2007 12:14
Max, it will not work, while we still have an opportunitistc women' group marching against a democratically made decision.
Does it means if Mbeki wins in Limpompo, Zuma supporters mast march against that decision.
As it it is said the President of the ANCWL did not want a the WL to vote for a women President, but when they have chosen Zuma, she is ranting like viscous cat.
This means Women are still not ready to run this country.
Who is Zumming who? ANGAZI!!
- Angazi |
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I agree with kolobe
05/12/2007 12:19
Our election process IS democratic. The ANC decides who it's leader should be [as do other political parties in RSA].
South Africans decide which party should run the country [as do other democratic countries].
Stop the hysteria.
Create a more credible opposition, or play an active role in the ANC. - Gary S. |
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We should all be voting
05/12/2007 12:26
I do agree 100% with Max. We should all be voting and we will see true democracy in action. - Kaki |
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Your thinking is bizarre MAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
05/12/2007 12:30
Where do you get this stange thinking Max? There must be a motive behind. Where have you ever seen what you purpot working? You've got poisonous hidden agenga.This is a total onslaught
against the democratic processes unfolding in this young democracy. Gods must be crazy to find people who are thinking like you. Do you want do lead this country to anarchy? You will mislead those who are misguided. - MJOMANA |
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Lebo.......What are you talking about?
05/12/2007 12:37
ANC does not belong to Thabo, so what is he protecting?. Tokyo, Zuma, etc sacrifised as well, they were in Roben Island and Thabo never went there.If Thabo really loves ANC,he should love its people as well and respect them.Don't call others opportunists.Mandela let go without being forced, but guess what since Thabo has too musc love, he doesnt want to let go.It looks like there will be no female ANC president as long as Thabo is protecting his baby:), please that's parthetic.Thabo,dedela abanye - PAT |
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Angazi - ANCWL
05/12/2007 12:40
Perhaps they are disputing the fact, that there are only 2 nominees, and both of them are male. Cant really speak for them, but perhaps they would have enjoyed 3 nominees with one female candidate. I did mention the other day, that South Africa is ranked 18th out of a 115 countries with regards to the gender gap. - Sinudeity |
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