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the ANC would rather order for
09/01/2008 11:32
the Scorpions bosses to be investigated and taken into custody than allow a FAIR investigation into the arms deal. They will rather silence the people who know the truth than to have the justice system take its course. But you should know, you have always been so CLOSE to these people, thought you would have all the answers by now, or don't they share? - Amy |
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this is africa,corruption is part of culture
09/01/2008 11:37
the commission which is not independent will report back that they see nothing wrong with the arms deal.zuma will become president and any that thinks deeper than breath in breath out can make up their own mind about this country - JAMES |
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Brothers in Arms
09/01/2008 11:39
The ANC have to be very careful here - if the ANC Report finds nothing wrong (a report, remember, that is not going to be released to the general public) and then the court case of Jacob Zuma starts bringing evidence out of misdeeds of whatever sort.... - Dave Robbins |
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Enough is enough
09/01/2008 11:42
This is another example of the party in crisis. It may be a pipe dream but the ANC must go. They are arrogantly leading South Africans into cronyism, incompetence & corruption predicated on the belief that the people will always give them unfliching support. They are like most African liberation movements, thinking they have a right to govern forever but they will get their comeuppance. South Africans deserve better. - Longbow |
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Notion that ANC can investigate itself is perverse
09/01/2008 11:45
Given its own (tainted) involvement in the arms deal (and the composition of its "top 20") the notion that the ANC will again investigate its involvement is quite perverse. Why, before they have even started, they have already stated that JZ is merely a victim of some political vendetta. Also quite interesting that convicted arms deal fraudster (TY) also made it into the top 20. Anyone for a banana? - yt1021 |
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sordidness
09/01/2008 11:50
I would love to think the ANC leadership underestimates the intelligence of Joe Citizen, by trying to mask their corruptive ways with their own smokescreens. However, it pains me to admit that their low estimations of Joe Citizen's intelligence, is perhaps accurate. How else can we explain these cretins being in charge of our lovely country? - Jaco |
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Whats new really???
09/01/2008 11:52
The ANC does have a report on the arms deal and therefore what this committee will be doing is just fishing expedition like one Fikile called (new) evidendence against Zuma. But if there are any charges against Pres Mbeki he must also get his day in court. What confuses me is that our Pres is accused of using State organs against Zuma, whereas he also tried to stop these investigations. If we think truth will ever come out in this matter we must forget, this is POLITICS. - Mlu |
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Har Har
09/01/2008 11:53
Dave Robbins - What court case!
There will never be a court case.
In 2 years time there will probably never have been an Arms Deal.
sad. - Richard |
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if only
09/01/2008 11:53
Max, don't hold your breath. Have you ever heard of a guilty politician ( and most of them are ), allowing justice to flow unostructively? The entire organ is cancerous and should be removed, but who would the organ donor be? - The fisherman |
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Proud South African
09/01/2008 11:59
I am sick and tired of people making comments like THIS IS AFRIA or WHAT ELS DO YOU EXPECT FROM AFRICA. Corruption happens all over the world, just look at America with a president like Buch ? he is one of the most corrupted presidents in the world and uses the war on terror to enrich himself. I am proud to be a part of this country and this continent that have survived and onslaught of discrimination and marginalization handed out by the hand of European colonial powers with the backing of world powers like America. Please do not let the actions of view politicians rob you of your patriotism and pride you should have for our great country and continent. - colin |
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Who better to investigate arms deal than ANC?
09/01/2008 12:01
What a load of subjective hogwash Max. The idea that the ANC should now re-investigate the arms deal is actually a very logical development in this saga. With the elevation of Comrade Yengeni to the top-twenty, they will now obviously have plenty of "inside information" on where to look. Just you see - Comrade JZ will emerge from this smelling like a rose! - saliem |
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Interesting????
09/01/2008 12:03
I wonder if this report will not be used for witch hunt. JZ became deputy persident after the deal was concluded in 1999. What did Thales do that required them to seek alleged protection by JZ? What is going to happen to the report? Why did they decide already that they are not going to make it public no matter what the findings are? - Pasta |
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Richard - what court case?
09/01/2008 12:10
The court case of the State (Prosecutor Billy Downer) versus Jacob Zuma on 352 charges is set down for August 18. A list of witnesses has already been published - watch the press for details! - Dave Robbins |
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Trial By Media
09/01/2008 12:12
So the ANC becomes the perpetual child, being told down by "those who know" what to do, when to do and how to do. It is also so obvious that all the ones who know has this so-called quasi-intellectual ability to play judge and jury even before the trial has begun. Not only that they have already passed judgement,they seemingly must decide on the sentence.The anc seeks no special treatment for its Prez. U r innocent until proven guilty. - Cape Town Kid |
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on it
09/01/2008 12:22
the new exec wants to cut Mbeki's wings as well as those o the Scorpions whom they accuse of havin n agenda against Zuma, it's sad that their purpose is not what their voters mandated them to do=fight for the poor. i love this part "Will they then still protest that the charges against him were all a political conspiracy, or will they quietly allow the law to take its course?" my party is losing focus, sorry, has lost focus.
- youngster |
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Arms deal
09/01/2008 12:30
This scenario is very confusing to the ordinary man. JZ is accused of being involved in securing a bribe of R500K a year from Thint. How much influence did he have on awarding contracts? Did he actually RECEIVE at least one R500K? Foreign media are screaming for Mbeki's head but local media are very mum on that. Why? And why is the NPA so keen to release any small detail on JZ to the media before they even formulate a credible case against him? Why do they struggle so much to take him to court? - Chris-T |
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Their hands are just as dirty.
09/01/2008 12:37
What's this, a criminal compiling an arms deal report? Me thinks the leadership is trying to leverage what Mbeki has against Zuma. This is a ploy to drag Mbeki into Zuma's trial so that he looks just as dirty. I doubt if Mbeki benefitted financially, the party benefited. Mbeki could be guilty however with no financial benefit. The top six will threaten Mbeki with the info they have. Look at the NWC and see how many criminals are there, Mbeki was far better. - Libembe |
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The beginning of anarchy?
09/01/2008 12:38
Between SAPS the Scorpions, Zuma and Mbeki there is more than enough evidence to suspect an intense power struggle, and a possible beginning of a slide into anarchy if the justice system isn't overhauled and the courts' independance isn't protected, respected and enshrined. The "worse case' scenario now appears to be the most likely outcome. - Matt |
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Whites
09/01/2008 12:42
Why didn't the NPA and funny Billy not investigate the the entire deal? - Tebza |
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Just a delay tactic
09/01/2008 13:03
All the facts are already known by the "new" NEC who are acting as if they've just come back from exile.Such a weak approach.Zuma and his team knows the loopholes in the legal system and will use these to delay the case (as they've already do-Mauritian docs) until ANC wins elections and he's made SA president.Thereafter all this will disappear.DA can now show us what a REAL opposition party is all about, not yapping like puppies but really delivering on their promise to rid SA of corrupt govt. - Badi |
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cover up
09/01/2008 13:03
Sounds like a cover to me...It has been said that Mbeki took a R7,5m bribe from Agliotti along with Selebi and thts why he has taken action against him...
If that is true then we are better off with Zuma...at least we know we dealing with a thief trying to be a president rather than a president trying to be a thief... - Masti |
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COLIN
09/01/2008 13:06
I agree with you,i'm not sure how many people know that senior army officials in the USA are under investigation for corruption in connection with procurement of defence arms for the war in Iraq.I do'nt say corruption is ok in SA ,this is just a response to the 'This is Africa' brigade. - Godfrey |
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Fish smells
09/01/2008 13:16
Clearly, the fish has rotten from the head, when looking at the "new" ANC. I hope the masses can smell this before the fish eats this country alive. Maybe it's time for the "old" ANC leaders that are now effectively outsiders, to rally the support of the clear-thinking citizens that want progress, and start a new party that all can belong to, black and white. It is blatantly obvious that the ANC has split into two. Oil and water will never mix again! - Joe Citizen |
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The end of the party?
09/01/2008 13:20
I can't help but wonder if the defence of Zuma may lead to the slow but necessary demise of the ANC. Will it's cadres sacrifice the party to avoid prosecution and to further settle political scores? These esteemed members have previously cast asside the party as a tool for greater good and used it as a mechanism towards personal gain. The rot is not only within the ANC elite, but filters down to it's very smelly belly. - Antelope |
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Re:Whites
09/01/2008 13:26
Tebza, remember the NPA could not investigate the entire deal because that would be what Mbalula and co call a fishing expedition. They can only investigate alleged wrongdoings. They say the truth always comes out but I doubt that will happen for the arms deal. - Pasta |
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Corruption is Corruption
09/01/2008 13:29
It does not matter who takes a bribe or who gives a bribe, or who steals from someone else. Corruption is corruption and it should not be tolerated by any peoples. Are we honest, morally above board, sober people who work hard for a living or are we not? The only comrades whould be the people who have run the marathon. ALL old freedom fighters and liberalists should leave politics and a whole new fresh young generation should take the helm. - bekkie |
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Spot on...
09/01/2008 13:29
Feinstein's book should be compulsory reading for all, especially loyal ANC members (at least those that can read, which would seemingly exclude most Zuma supporters!). See how the party has been hijacked by venal and narrow special interests. The arrogance is even more galling than the fraud itself... - Jackson |
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Observation ...
09/01/2008 13:36
Why is it that the more inane postings have the worst spelling and grammar? Tells something about the contributors.This is reflected in the left- and right-wing "silly comments".
It's sad,but at my advanced age(40),I can no longer support my previous desire to help build the nation through transfer of skills & personal investment in SA.What chances of a comfortable(note:COMFORTABLE,not OPULENT)retirement with the way we are going?Not good.So long,but now I look after myself.Sad. - Cynicus |
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HAI MANN..EISH
09/01/2008 13:41
as much as there is crime and corruption, can we atleast write about something positive... crimes that do get solved, busines that make it big...people fighting back fromthe worst of situations...maybe people will finally see that this is a country worth fighting for...you give criminals and politicians too much of the spotlight....enough mann... - Dan |
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To antelope
09/01/2008 13:46
You are right. This is the beginning of the end, but dont count on that end being the end that you are hoping for. If the ANC splits and the wrong faction gets into power, we are headed the same way as Zimbabwe. Just a thought... - dw |
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A National Circus
09/01/2008 13:53
.....keep smiling and pay your taxes to make the show go on. All other nations in the world have their own versions of it. Different players, similar issues. SA is just placing itself on the global political map. Enjoy the show. - Benzo |
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Re: Proud South African
09/01/2008 13:54
Comparing the Bush to Mbeki & co. does not justify corruption ! get that straight Colin...As much as I appreciate where u coming from and what u are saying it does not mean that what JZ, Mbeki and all the other neanderthals are doing right...As much as I despise the colonials they have had a hand in making us the Power Hse of the continent...Now Pls show me 1 African country that is successful and properous ? o
No takers ??? Thts becos they all busy fighting over their piece of the cheese...
- Colin eyz |
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Political appointees
09/01/2008 13:56
Shame on the person who claim Zuma supporters can't read,its this type of pigheadedness that is causing the so called rift.The frustration of some political appointees is that they need to join the unemployed masses after the gravy-train's brakes came to an sudden halt - Cinga |
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The ANC are all thugs.
09/01/2008 13:58
We all know that JZ is a thug. What we don't really know is the extent of the rot. My guess is that the likes of Thabo Mbeki have also had there palms greased. Everybody loves Nelson Mandela, but my guess is maybe even he has had his paws gold lined. The ANC big shots are becoming more and more transparent as a bunch of common thugs. This is not a perception. Its a fact. The future of SA is as brown as sh--. - Malcolm X |
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Judge for yourself-political conspiracies or just smoke
09/01/2008 14:08
The real issue is whether there is a political conspiracy against JZ and the members of the ANC..Gerrie Nel the scorpions chief known for his continuous support for the DA has been arrested for alleged fraud and defeating the hands of Justice (the DA came out lashing out as a witch-hunt),when the former NPA chief Ledwaba was arrested the DA was silent(is it because Nel is white? you can answer this in your heart), Given this sorry state of affairs one wonders if in fact the political conspiracy mantra by JZ and his supporters is correct.The question is whether the state organs like the pre-dominantly white judiciary system (don?t know if it is appropriate to call it a judiciary system while in a democratic SA you still have the white and Black lawyers associationsetc) are being used for political vendetta. - kolobe |
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Well said, Jackson ...
09/01/2008 14:12
... you've identified the crux of the matter - the sheer scale of the uninformed arrogance is breathtaking. I need say no more! - Cynicus |
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