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Totally agree, double standards
02/07/2008 08:28
People love to point fingers to government and officials, but don't expect the same standards from their friends and employers. People complain about "crime", but have sympathetic attitudes to their friends who offer bribes, speed and evade tax. Crime is crime. Dealing with Zimbabwe is dealing with Zimbabwe. Good point Max. - Peter |
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Contact with Zim
02/07/2008 08:32
Well done Max. As you know, there's nothing wrong with your thinking. Your moral compass is working just fine. Problem: I suspect you're a lone voice in the wilderness. Reason: Political indignation is fine as long as it doesn't affect the bottom line. - Ken |
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Business vs Zim
02/07/2008 08:32
Food for thought Max. In fact, I could'nt agree with you more. - JohnQ |
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Capitalism...
02/07/2008 08:37
That's right Max. Blast the Capitalist (for whatever capital there is in Zimbabwe).... - The Reindeer |
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Well said...
02/07/2008 08:38
my moral thoughts exactly. Selective condemnation at play which in my book is just as perverse as the selective memory which Mad Bob and his supporters are seriously suffering from. - JTA |
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Spot on Max, good job again.
02/07/2008 08:39
You seem to be speaking truth all by yourself and to yourself. We sometimes see no evil and hear no evil, depending who we like or don't like. I had always suspected that someone is keeping Zim afloat other than Mbeki, now there is my answer. Business people can do something to help stop genocide taking place up north. - Libembe |
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Bribes
02/07/2008 08:42
Bribes are rarely "offered". They are usually asked for. And try to say no to the lone officer on the lonely road while pushing his head into the car window, with only his gun but no name tag visible. - Werner Pereira |
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I agree fullly
02/07/2008 08:47
Bribes are paid for numerous reasons And i am not justifying them, but merely pointing them out. The system is flawed. I have numerous friends who have paid bribes and feel terrible about paying them, but would probably pay them again. Think of it as an alternative to being raped in a holding sell without a phone call or an arrest being made. Rouge cops are the ones to blame not the people bribing! don't fool yourself max. under those circumstance you'd do the same. - Tim |
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Boycott
02/07/2008 08:47
Vic Falls is my all time favourite holiday destination and apart from annual holidays at Elephant Hills (last one March 2007) I have held company conferences at the same venue. This beautiful will not see one brass cent of mine until Mugabe is gone! Said Max name and shame is the way to treat these hypocrites. - Shaun |
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Business with Zim.
02/07/2008 08:53
We must be very careful not to punish the people for the sins of the leaders. Yes, don't do business with the government, but arbitary closing of supply links / jobs will just result in more misery for innocent people. - Joe |
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MdP
02/07/2008 08:57
How ruggedly right you are, you do need moral guidance on quite a few issues especially you 'hate' of whites and your 'love' for blacks. - Chris |
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really!
02/07/2008 09:00
such a good point - what a great article! makes me even feel a little dumb for not doing anything and forces one to go beyond moaning about thabo while sipping on the beer or while standing in line at barclays or checking out the anglo stock prices...Now i have to do more than moan, i have to change and maybe even sacrifice... - open ended |
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You are not alone Max
02/07/2008 09:03
I see double standards at play here. Not that I am surprised though. - Z |
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Good show Max!
02/07/2008 09:08
Max, you have touched on a point that the fat cats of business hoped will never be brought to the fore. Building business and getting rich on the life blood of the poor and innocent. I just wonder where are the folks (read ANC) that shouted for full on sanctions against Apartheid SA in the name of humanity. Hear the deafening silence! You go, Max! If anybody can ride this tiger it is you. - Jack The Beanstalk |
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double standards
02/07/2008 09:19
Dead right, so from now on I will not buy from Nando's nor use ABSA bank.
Its time SA companies understood the power of the public. - Craig |
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Zim
02/07/2008 09:19
I think the one consolation about Zim is, it simply cannot continue for much longer the way things are. When realities like no food and extreme isolation set in, things will have to change. On a different note, hows that other Mbeki on Deborah's show, what a guy! He is singlehandedly restoring my faith in black influentials/leaders. He seems so candid and uncompromising, exactly what is required for SA. Hopefully he can influence a few of the relevant people. - ramone |
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Moral & political standards
02/07/2008 09:20
Ethically both are unjustifiable, but there is a small distinction. Government must acto for and behalf of the people and thus refelct their will. They don't. Businesses must act for and behalf of their shareholders and staff. Maybe they do, but in this case difficult to justify. - Philip |
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Mbeki supports Mugabe
02/07/2008 09:22
Mbeki has been been suporting Mugabe every step of the way while mugabe destroyed Zimbabwe. It is far from a softly softly approach, it is outright support. Mbeki must share responsibility for what has happened in Zimbabwe. - George |
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Dealing with Zim
02/07/2008 09:24
I am in a position where I deal with Zimbabwe on a daily basis. My company has been dealing with Zimbabwe since before all the problems started and I cannot just pack up all I have worked hard for and close shop. This will leave me without work as well as the 20 people that work for me. I do deal primarily with individuals in Zimbabwe and they rely heavily on what I can supply them with. If I close shop they will also suffer. - NothernExposure |
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Oh, Joe...
02/07/2008 09:25
You don't seem to grasp the concept of pressurising a government through the populace. Making life difficult for the "innocent" people may just result in a regime change and that's the end game. Sometimes you have to suffer a little to gain a lot. The sooner it is done the sooner the way will be opened for a better Southern Africa and in particular, recovery of Zim. Treading softly, softly only prolongs the agony of the "innocents" and makes their lives even more miserable. - Tuffy |
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Double standards
02/07/2008 09:48
Very true Max.Every day we are told about corruption in government, but no one say anything about crruption in the private sector.People have been hammering Mbeki about Zim, now we know that a SA company has been doing business with ZANUPF.Elsewhere here on News24 we're told about a SAfrican expat who is involved in supplying arms to the Mugabe government.Double standards if you as me.So after all it's not only Mbeki who should be 'blamed' for Zim's problems. - Godfrey |
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Congrats Max!
02/07/2008 09:49
I am sure if you had to ask the CEO/MD of Paarl Web Printers, Tongaat Hulett, etc whether they endorse the current Zimbabwe Regime they would turn around and say "Hell No!". And subsequently ask, then why are you doing business with that government, the answer would be "Business is Business". Therefore double stanards are always at play when money is involved. Well done Max, I don't think a lot of South Africans are aware of what our business elite are getting themselves up to!!!! - Sivuyile |
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What solution?
02/07/2008 09:50
Greed has no check. I just wonder about our esteemed idiot Mbeki. How I ask you will Zim come up with a solution? They will never change that evil regime by themselves. Such a poor argument and political tactic. - Pietskiet |
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Well said...
02/07/2008 09:51
There can be no middle ground,it's black and white. The same goes for travel companies selling packages to Burma (Myanmar) and Cuba. Name and shame them, as the government won't do anything. Besides, going by the latest Mail & Gauardian article, govermnment is too busy selling arms to Mad Bob to worry about others. - liki |
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Business
02/07/2008 09:52
what are politics in front of benefits/profits? big businesses never cares about a damn thing, theirs is to make profits. its so unfortunate!
however, it was obviously very clear that the zimbo govt. is getting some support from elsewhere...
- odirilwe |
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So should we be reading this?
02/07/2008 09:58
Excellent column and a very good point. Perhaps we should all boikot this site and all the Media24 partner publications (Finweek, City Press, Rapport, etc) until the Media24 group fires the management of Paarl Web Printers or divests itself of that subsidiary. Max, I admire a man who's willing to point out unpleasant facts that reflect badly on his bosses. So when are the columnists going on strike ;-) I'd be surprised if this comment gets published ... - marna |
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Bribe payers
02/07/2008 10:02
ic the bribe protecting themselves. did it ever cross their minds to not break the law, and if they are caught, bear the consequences? this just shows that if the same comedians were in parliament or government, they would continue exercising this selective morality which they do in their everyday lives. what a cop-out - ike |
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Joe!
02/07/2008 10:05
maybe if u punish the ppl the people might just revolt and stop being comfortable, and Bob might not even hav gained the 30% that earned him the run-off... - ike |
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Choices
02/07/2008 10:15
I heard a saying once, it is easier fighting for ones beliefs than living up to them. Just like all the CEO's are pouring scorn on ZIM, they will happily deal with them if it is to their own benefit. So to the folks that work for these companies. If any of them should be given a choice, either lose your job or tolerate the employer dealing with ZIM, most will choose the latter. For now, I continue to pour scorn on the ZIM regime! - Brenton |
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The buck does`nt stop there
02/07/2008 10:21
China has been for years guilty of gross human injustices and rights abuses but we still import chinese cars and other commodities and so does the rest of the world,so when you buy your next Chana or geely think about how many people were maimed too. - fatman |
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Doing business with Mugabe
02/07/2008 10:23
Who is the South African supermarket chain still doing business selling luxury goods to the Zanu-PF elite and the top military and police officers? I do not want to support this chain with my shopping there. Win - Win Ullrich |
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An eye opener
02/07/2008 10:32
Well said Max. Politicians create very thick layers of bureaucracy which make it impossible to come to or know the truth. It will take other decades b4 the arms scandal is resolved. Unless Bantu Holomisa or Patricia de Lille come up with something. Why dont these 2 souls up their political carrers and attract more people by naming and shaming these scandalous people in public? We SA have the right to know them, so why is the NPA or whoever make this info available to us as a whole? Shame Mr Mbeki, everyone seems to be venting their frustration and anger on you. But your approach to all these pressing issues has been that of a great stateman. Mr Mbeki will go down in history as the best leader we ever had other than Mr Mandela. - Watu |
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Lets assist
02/07/2008 10:32
Let's get a list of SA companies that are still dealing in Zim and amongst ourselves stop dealing with them, we can make a difference, what supermarket chain is still there? - Riccardo |
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@Max, dont often agree with you (biased), but in this case, YES.
02/07/2008 10:43
Alos, @Nothern Exposure & @Tuffy, you both make valid point. What a dilema! You damned if you do, damned if you dont. Short term, I support Tuffy. Medium to longer term, we have to look at self preservation & survival. Now if only we can convince people of the southern nations to get rid of the dictators (Bob & TM), then we can all thrive economically & socialy, the sooner the better. Yes, this will probably cause some discomfort in the short term, but prosperity & sustainability in longer term. - Matrix |
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business morals
02/07/2008 10:44
The purpose of business is to do business and to earn the maximum return on investment lawfully.It is goverment that must set the boundries.Business only understand rand and cent politics so to punish them spend your buck somewhere else.Since SAB took afrikaans off their labels I have not supported them in more than 14 years.Not that it made a difference to them but I feel good about it. - Andre |
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@ramone
02/07/2008 10:45
Agreed,I think we've got the wrong brother as our President! What the Hell went wrong with Thabo (must have been dropped on his head as a child)? - The Truth |
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The shopping chain is Spar Zimbabwe
02/07/2008 10:47
Since when are people more important than money???? - Stephen |
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NOBLE BUT NAIVE
02/07/2008 10:47
Sorry, Max, but reality beckons. I do business with ordinary Zimbabweans, not their Government. If I stop supplying food, they will starve to death. And yes, to get through the border, a bribe is requested. Would I do it voluntarily, never ever, but with a gun to my head what else do I do. This is AFRICA where ignorance and greed reign, for heavens sake, not educated Europe. The gap will never close as long as African dictators deliberately keep the masses ignorant and brainwashed. - johnson |
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@ Win
02/07/2008 10:52
Win - apparently Pick and Pay has stores in Zimbabwe, according to its annual report for this year, although they are expecting not to receive any income from those stores ..... - liesl |
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making money
02/07/2008 10:52
tell me why make the people of a counrty pay for the sins of the people in charge.
people must still live
why take away good jobs from people - rob |
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Politics vs Money
02/07/2008 10:57
Max, there is a line that needs to be drwn here. If those companies that have operations in Zim pull out who will take their place? do you hurt the people employed at these companies further and add to the already 80% unemployment? while i do not for one minute want to see these comp making huge profits in Zimb what would perhaps be a better idea is for these companies to establish a Zimababwean rescue fund and plough the profits into this fund for use once democracy has been re-established. - Realist |
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Bribes - asked for not offered
02/07/2008 10:58
In my experience particularly with the police, I have never offered a bribe. I have been asked for one to let me off speeding fines several times. And I have never once paid them. But I think that is the reality - most bribes are asked for, not offered. - Alan |
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Mbeki is a spineless leader..
02/07/2008 11:01
I can say with confidence that our so called leader has no moral high ground, yet he is quick to denounce certain actions by other western leaders. Although I disagree with JZ being president, I would rather see someone taking a stance against AU leaders than smiling and avoiding questions. I see some sort of similarity between him and Bush, both are pathetic leaders. - Realist |
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German not printing money anymore
02/07/2008 11:05
well done Max - good points! I read last night that the German company printing Zim's bank notes has stopped doing so with immediate effect. I hope it'll have an effect! - Andre |
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Right you are!
02/07/2008 11:06
There is a small catering supplier that belongs to a huge corporation in S.A. They supply a company in Zimbabwe with all sorts of things. The staff at the catering company have to invoice the one in Zim for car tyres, DSTV and all sorts of items. Why? Because the Zim company belongs to Bob. The staff all know it, even though his name doesn't appear anywhere. Why doesn't the company director close that account. It's his business, he can without reason if he wants to. Bob must hurt in HIS pocket. - cheryl |
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Business As Usual
02/07/2008 11:11
As much as I agree with you that the companies doing business in Zimbabwe are as morally corrupt as our politicians.
I would also like to point out that holding public office should compel a person to live to a higher standard. The fact that very few if any politicians do is testament to the fact that there is something wrong with politics in general.
That fact notwithstanding, perhaps all of us are helping to cause the problem. We continue to buy groceries from that particular supermarket. - Paolo |
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Max
02/07/2008 11:13
Thank you Max, for once again pointing the little useless person that call himself President of SA. He supposed to benifit the people, but lately seems to be more concern off his personal interests in Zims than about the people. SO called freedom fighter,for his poeple?? hhmmmff!! Thabo will NEVER be MADIBA!!!He should rather hand the reigns to someone that can get the job done!!! Zuma!!!! - Japie Herbst |
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You are not alone
02/07/2008 11:20
Max, your article is spot-on. But some of us have chosen to shift the blame concerning these issues. The coments posted in this column bear witness to that.That's the nature of human beings.The west views Africa as a corrupt continent, fair enough. Yet the money stolen from the coffers of African states is in the banks of western countries.Double standards are all over. We have a serious crisis in our hands. - Timothy |
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We can do our bit..
02/07/2008 11:20
Why don't we boycott Barclays/ABSA and the South African owned bouitiques and stores?? Why do we read these articles and just agree with what is being said??? If anyone knows of SA stores profiteering in Zim please name them. - John Camp |
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Government vs Business
02/07/2008 11:22
A business answers to its shareholders. If the majority of shareholders are happy to derive dividends out blood-money, then the company can go ahead and deal with tyrants. If you don't like it, sell your shares or object at the AGM and then sell your shares.
A government answers to ALL the citizens and not just those who voted them in. Governments are chosen to LEAD the people, and to set an example. The citizens cannot sell their shares and be done with a government except by emigrating. - Jon |
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BIG BISINESS - TWEE GEFREET
02/07/2008 11:45
When it comes to money all morals are thrown out of the window ? I plea to all big business to stop doing business with Zimbabwe and stop trying to justify why you will not take this courageous step. The only reason companies are still doing business in Zimbabwe is that they do not want to have such a big write off of their financial statements and can also result in a loss in revenue ? what about the shareholders of the big companies they are just as guilty. - colin |
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The difference
02/07/2008 11:46
While I believe the companies should stop doing business with Zimbabwe the difference in standards applied to individual businesses and our government is obvious. Our government represents all of us whether we like it or not.
I belive our government should impose sanctions on Zimbabwe i.e. we should impose sanctions on Zimbabwe. - AndrewG |
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Double standards
02/07/2008 11:50
Sound like my ex girlfriend:-) - Win |
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lightbulb moment
02/07/2008 11:53
Max, this is really an eye opener. We are aware that the innocent may also suffer, but businesses should follow the example of their European counterparts. What has gone wrong with humanity. We sell out souls for money. - Pam |
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