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Clutching at straws mate
19/12/2007 09:47
Democracy means that the decision of the majority of those that decide to vote binds everyone, including those that voted against. - OOPS |
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Well done Mike...
19/12/2007 09:51
I could not agree with you more.I fear however that many (with the same mentality as the 2329 we all saw last night) are going to attack you for what you have come up with. - The Truth |
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democracy, mathematics and perceptions
19/12/2007 09:59
An interesting angle but more belonging in a University debating panel than in real life politics. Elections are often done in stages and -by definition- very seldom do represent the "will of the majority". On the issue of "value judgment": TM has also been fingered for his role in the arms deal. Not many have called him "corrupt". - Benzo |
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Interesting
19/12/2007 10:00
Interesting viewpoint. - S |
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Zuma will set us free
19/12/2007 10:01
Who cares what you guys think anyways?. It's white shame and now you got to pay the price. Zuma will set us all free. - A DJ |
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Slogans
19/12/2007 10:14
The masses love slogans because they are short and easy to remember. And we must judge Zuma on his past actions. This country needs a leader who is respectable, trustworthy and moral. Not one with a sketchy past and a string of illegitimate children. Not even Protex can wash away a man's past JZ. Jason - Jason |
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Rock and Roll the bones.....
19/12/2007 10:15
Don't worry Mike.Whatever happens I'm sure Zuma's officially recognised (spin)witch doctor will get him off the hook - Anthony Ive |
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Its the Majority
19/12/2007 10:15
of the ANC "elite" that want him, by no means the people.
Oh, and the people that want him in, well, according to an article published on this site, they worship their rapists and murderers.....
nuff said.
- Steve |
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God help us all
19/12/2007 10:16
That is so true.All the Zuma fans can ignore the fact that the man is has had (still might) have have some shady dealings doea not mean that we all hate to pretend not to see. I honestly hope they build a case against him.I am very much against Zuma but that does not mean that I am for Mbeki.It is just better dealing with the devil that you know. - koketso |
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JZ and his corruption threats.
19/12/2007 10:18
Benzo, the main problem I have with JZ is his threat to take down others if he's prosecuted. If the man has knowledge of corruption amongst other ANC members then it's his duty to reveal it. I have a feeling, though, that the ANC benefited from the arms deal as well as some individuals. In which case any charges levelled at those individuals would open a whole can of worms for the party itself. Sadly, for that reason if I'm correct, we'll never know the true story. - David |
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A DJ
19/12/2007 10:20
Glad you believe that DJ ... its idiots like who are ruining this country and ironically you will pay the price for your stupidity. Seems like racism still lives on within people like yourself ! - Travis |
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A DJ
19/12/2007 10:22
"Zuma will set us free"...... and Bush promised "to make the world a better place"; Hitler promised "das dritter Reich" and so on. How do you know when a politician lies? When he moves his lips!! Live your dream while it lasts. Others will just wait and see. - Benzo |
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What's up with the racial slurs....
19/12/2007 10:23
From both sides there is this extreme racial typecasting. The white dudes call the black dudes ignorant communists, and the black dudes basically dig into the white guys and almost violently threaten them to leave the country.
What the hell is up with that? - Ryan Matthews |
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Dear Mr A DJ
19/12/2007 10:23
I'm afraid you should wake up and realize that you have probably been "free" for the greatest part of your life (unless your in gaol, in which case you might soon be joined by your president). Shocking how someone who has the ability to read internet news articles still displays such nonsense sentiments.
Mike, interesting article. I fear though that the legal system does not have the authority to prosecute the president of the ANC. Hopefully I will be proven wrong. - H |
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A DJ
19/12/2007 10:26
Actually A DJ you should care what the white people think. If it wasn't for the Europeans this country, and its people, would still be in the stone age - still hunting with spears and sticks.
Zuma would be so stupid as to do any official damage to the 'minority' because that is all that holds this country together.
Good luck working out your racist issues, at least we've got that far... - Nic |
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Zuma, ongoing...
19/12/2007 10:27
Please everybody, can we not put the racism card 2 bed; in fact put it in a coffin & bury it! I am white, so white that when I go in2 the sun, I go red & you get the picture. I didn't ask 2 be born on the African continent, but I was. I'm proud 2 call myself an African. I'm also a staunch supporter of the ANC; always have been & always will be. As 4 JZ, lets wait & c what happens if & when he is charged. I love SA & all her people, so pse let us all show respect for all views posted in this site. - Grace |
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I don't see your point........
19/12/2007 10:27
so Mike u say 44% of the elegible voters did not vote ANC into power. I suppose u are not implying that had they decided to vote that would have changed the figures. Hence I say I don't see your point. May be u need to look @ that 44% & see what constitute it which I can safely say > 50% is black which means a lot more votes for the ANC anyway. - Lubha |
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popular vote
19/12/2007 10:27
isnt it that the popular vote meaning the massess is only second to the national assembly, who eventually decides who becomes the president, this will be like a buffer system because it is thought the majority of people out there supposedly do not know the difference between one leader and the next? maybe zuma will be charged and kgalema will be the next president! no one operates in a vacuum and i hope zuma will make decisions base on whatever values he has! - mb |
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Good one Mike
19/12/2007 10:33
i agree with you Mike about your well explained definition of the "people has spoken" and "majority" phrases.The rest of South Africa are now victims of Thabo's stranglehold of his power.As a result JZ was elected just to humiliate Thabo not because(and surely not) he is the best candidate.Mike just watch out for the attacks on your article. - Harris |
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Poor Mikey........
19/12/2007 10:35
Oh what a cry baby!! If u dont want Zuma in power in 2009, just dont vote or rather vote DA. Im sure that will suit u fine. Anyway that was the ANC conference to vote 4 "their" new leader but u will get yo chance in 2009!!!!!!!!! - Ringomania |
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Zuma will set us free
19/12/2007 10:37
White folks armed with all their intellectual ability still exhibit racist tendencies. They always favor the side that discredits the current political dispensation and most of them still believe apartheid wasn't such a bad thing. Listen guys, we don't care anymore. Do whatever, say whatever, our destiny is finally emerging. We will govern with you, if you want to. - A DJ |
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Rise of Mathematicians and Statisticians!
19/12/2007 10:38
One Mike from CT had me glued to my calculator with all this figures. It reminded me of my Masters thesis! Exactly Mr statistician who are the majority of South Africans want as the next president since you seem to have done some 'research?? I suppose its time you start packing your bags and move to your ancestry places the likes of Australia, England etc. One thing for sure you and your friends, concerned, annoyed would not be missed in the African country! - Mageba |
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The will of the ignorant
19/12/2007 10:38
The masses will as is normal in Africa get the government they deserve.
Zuma has been tarnished; not just by the allegations of corruption, of which he is no doubt guilty as his corruptor has already been tried and convicted; but also by his own statements during his rape trial. He has no respect for women, and is totally ignorant about one of the biggest killers in history: AIDS.
No matter, a shower can wash it all away and make him fit to govern! - Cliff |
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ZUMA WILL SET US FREE
19/12/2007 10:39
Remember A DJ, GOD made us, and he can take us away. Every one of us will die eventually, and no president of any country, can stop that from happening. Only Christ will set you free, not ZUMA. Jacob Zuma is a human being, so what makes him more special than you or I? Should we really believe in someone who believes that taking a shower after intercourse, will keep you from contracting the HIV virus? Talk about abuse of power!! - Nicolette |
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People must pay attention...
19/12/2007 10:39
Vavi sad in 2003, members of COSATU must join the ANC to change its direction(this he confirmed last night on BBC). From then the hooligans joined the ANC and flexed their muscle, and well here are the results. - Mlu |
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Set free from what????
19/12/2007 10:41
What white shame and what is he setting us free from? maybe i'm just blinded by my moral sense and what is deemed as right and wrong. I wouldn't want a president that has shady dealings and a total disrespect for women and the law. - Whatever |
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All will be fine
19/12/2007 10:43
Zuma will go to jail and the guy elected as deputy will become president. Mbeki knows this as well. By the way , Zuma's win made front page news at the BBC , The Economist etc. They have already mentioned in their articles his views on taking showers..... - TG |
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The will of the poeple,
19/12/2007 10:43
May god bless our new leadership,our newly found freedom again, show all the sceptics direction to autralia,and britain. Forgive the scopions and NPA. open Mike's eyes and give him ability to think positively. - Bannie |
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Guilt is relative.....
19/12/2007 10:44
Let's not forget that Mbeki remained 'innocent' by virtue of political power... Soon he may become 'guilty', once his power is lost.
Conversely, our new 'friend', Zuma will quickly become 'innocent', once he has adopted the protective shield of power.
Surely, no one believes otherwise? - Watcher |
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Agree with you
19/12/2007 10:45
I agree with you 100%, but i cannot comprehend the branding of those who voted Zuma into power as stupid and uneducated. For me that goes to show that South Africans, especially white, do not value and tolerate the worldviews of others. Comments such as that of The Truth display the general arrogance of most people, and they should with no doubt be met with the same arrogance from our people. We are failing to logically debate issues because of irrational people like the truth - Funnybones |
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Zuma
19/12/2007 10:46
I am scared that the Zuma suppoters are now preparing to collect a pound of flesh. Zuma owes to many people too many favours and with him winning the ANC Pres Elections the queue in his office is getting longer. Running the country is no child's play and too all those that supported him, rememebr what all of us told you, we are watching, it is going to be the longest four years of your lives. Good luck you will need it.
DN - scared to hell and Black |
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The end is in sight!
19/12/2007 10:47
I hope this tears the racist ANC apart. Only then will democracy mean something in this country. THAT will be exciting and fun. Whoever is at the top I hope they get their act together and do something about the issues in SA rather than enriching themselves at the expense of the rest of us, as is common among blacks. - European-African |
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Based on your logic
19/12/2007 10:48
If the TM was the winner, will his victory be representing the will of the majority? Remember no one stopped you from joining the ANC, therefore do not give us a lecture as to the will of the majority.
The point is the five of the ANC branches backed JZ and four provinces backed TM. Of the four provinces, North West and Limpopo were forced into nominating TM, hence the margin in which JZ won.
- realist |
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Nothing will change
19/12/2007 10:49
ANC policy will not change, top party officials have just confirmed this. In particular, macroeconomic policy will remain as it is. I get the sense that a lot of people think their lives will improve materially because of this change - I'm afraid they're in for a rude awakening. To "Benzo" above: many people did not want either Mbeki or Zuma. There were other potential candidates but they were all ignored in favor of these two, both of whom have tainted records. - cynic |
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Actually....
19/12/2007 10:49
no politician is untouchable, as his (or her) salary is paid by us, the voters, through our taxes. What is not allowed is libel, i.e. saying something about someone that you know to be untrue. So when I say I am unhappy about Jacob Zuma because of the evidence he gave in his rape trial, or the fact that he has tried to block the NPA bringing in documents from Mauritius and the UK, I am merely reporting known facts, which is my democratic right. And so, Mike, I certainly support your first point! - Dave Robbins |
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democratic yes..
19/12/2007 10:52
Yesterdays election showed two things,
1] Democracy is alive and well in S.A, delegates have voted for change and it has been granted.
2] People just dont learn from Africa's mistakes. A populist, all-singing, all-dancing leader often turns in to the exact man that can take 'point one' away (democracy).
J.Z has faught hard for this powerful position - don't think he will give it up so easily when the time for change comes once more - sr |
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Not all delegates like JZ
19/12/2007 10:52
Not all of the 2329 delegates who voted for JZ like him to be president, they did that just to get rid of TM. They were afraid that if they can vote for somebody else like Tokyo or Cyril they might split the votes which can make TM to win the race. - Phele |
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It's the beginning of uncertainty
19/12/2007 10:54
It was democracy at it's best !! But let's not forget that for this country to continue to prosper sound and well executed economical policies are needed.By looking at these guys who were elected yesterday there is a great deficiency of the skills we need. From an economical point of view it does not look good at all . I would also want to say socialist ideology will not find it's place in today's economic. - settie |
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They elected their Pres AND in 2009 we will vote for ours
19/12/2007 10:55
People must realise that there are other political parties in SA and my advise to the Helen's & Patricia's is INTENSIFY let us see u Win us over & TAKE ADVANTAGE. We have put the ANC in power and we can put them out aswell - Mabonza |
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Stats...
19/12/2007 10:58
Thanx for the stats,truth is although your stats are on point,the majority,in my opininion would be in that percentage that actually went and cast a vote.even though 40% voted,the majority in that group still voted ANC.As for JZ&TM,people are just tired of TM and need a fresh approach,except for JZ no one really presented themselve as a worthy candidate.So from me,Good Luck JZ and God help SA.... - realist |
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100% right
19/12/2007 11:00
Agree .. come 2009, as black african i will never vote for Zuma but the question that hangs is who is a better candidate to challenge him & mighty ANC, currently i dont see any. Definately not Helen Zille & Patricia .. PAC & IFP r also dead. Can someone please help SA politicts. we still have 2 years to make amends though. ANC is going to win 2009 for sure BUT i'm going to make its not majority by voting .. we cant afford to give Zuma that luxury. - seja |
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shame on you
19/12/2007 11:01
Speak for yourself A DJ, you will be in stone stage.Are you fortune teller, your Europeans that idolise so much should have left us (AFRICANS) alone.Big to change in ANC and country's direction.
- SOl |
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And how exactly?
19/12/2007 11:01
A dj - How exactly is he "going to set you free"? And what is white shame? It is pathetic that when you are all rallying for peace and unity, in the back of your mind you're still racist. Grow up. - Berry |
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Nothing to offer
19/12/2007 11:02
A DJ if you think JZ is going to set you free from what I don't know you are living in a dream world, please tell us all what you actualy mean by that?? really enlighten us! - warren |
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A DJ
19/12/2007 11:02
You are indeed a fool! With senseless comments like you have made.......makes you the fool. I dont think that we are going to pay the price. Watch this space, it is going to be idiots like you, who are easily conned into thinking that Zuma will set you free. Dream on!!! - carol |
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G@d help us all
19/12/2007 11:03
As I have been saying for some time in this forum neither JZ nor TM carry any moral integrity. However if the majority say that Zuma is the man it leaves this beautiful country poorer for it. I hope that there is a higher power out there that will deliver this country from the evil that is about to befall it. A split ANC can only be disastrous for the entire country as a whole. Now will a real leader please stand up and take hold of this monster that has been unleashed on us. Mike interesting article. - Gary |
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Racism
19/12/2007 11:04
Please, people, this is not a race issue, Mike came up with an alternate view, based on a number of things, but not one racial slur was seen in his commentary. Why do people like Dj have such race issues, get over the skin you were born in, just as you didnt choose your skin colour, neither did anyone else. Give it a break!!! - Lee |
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News24
19/12/2007 11:06
News24 - I seriously can't believe you guys are still allowing racial hate slander on your message boards. Almost every letter you publish incites an unrelated mud slinging racial argument. Freedom of speech is good but providing a vehicle for hate is undoing any good this freedom provides. - Stuart Elliott |
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something is fishy
19/12/2007 11:08
I can smell a very bad rat. By looking at this whole ANC issue I can sense torrid times to come . It will not end here , the way JZ was fighting for the position I wonder what he wants to offer the SA people.The guy is very hungry for power, which is questionable. Is he going to use it for good or destructive purposes.Definitely something is fishy - settie |
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Why do black Africans.....
19/12/2007 11:08
always hope for somebody to come and "free" them, or "save" them??? Why can't they do that themselves. And by the reactions of some of the idiots on here, it seems like they will never be "free" or "saved", no matter what. - J.O |
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No one really knows
19/12/2007 11:08
No one really knows what the end result of this is going to be. JZ could be a good president, he could change things for the better or on the other hand he might mess it up even worse than it is now. To have confidence in your president is determined by the actions that he has done in the past. JZ's past looks shady. Lets hope the future is brighter and JZ delivers. - Mo |
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A DJ & Nic
19/12/2007 11:09
Could both of you put a sock in it!! We don't need your idiotic comments. if you have nothing to say, pls stay out of the debate. I am with MB, Kgalema will be the next president. It's like the TV licence add "the right thing to do". - mjero |
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"Set us free"?
19/12/2007 11:10
The only one who will be set free by Zooma is his buddy, Shabir Shaik! :) - Witblitz |
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Time for a change
19/12/2007 11:17
I must agree with Seja, but with the history of this country, I will never vote for a white party. Look at what Hellen Zille has done to CT in a short space of time. ANC did not have a succession plan and this is the price they have to pay. Am I happy that JZ is the ANC president, Hell No, but he's a better bet than the DA! Pizozo - Pizozo |
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Zuma, SA & Voting
19/12/2007 11:22
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. This to all those who are so negative. R u perhaps 1 of those who didn't vote in last election. Be the change you want to see. In other words, join a political party of your choice & work from within the democratic framework to make SA better. In other words, put up or shut up! - Grace |
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What's Shaik'sfuture
19/12/2007 11:24
Is he going to be released or continue to languish in prison when JZ becomes the Chief - settie |
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Truth
19/12/2007 11:25
Will Zuma be generous democratic leader and improve the quality of life of the poor? Will Zuma be a power hungry autocrat and barricading himself in power with corruption. Will the poor who voted for him be dogging the crocodiles as they stream North into prosperous Zimbabwe in 20yrs time? Or will none of this make any difference? The stats can't answer these questions so lets not get caught up in them. - Spud |
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What is your point
19/12/2007 11:27
Jacob is not my choice, but I don't understand what is your point. He was elected democratically. Yes he is not immune to public scrutiny but he was elected democratically. Its not his fault people chooses not to vote. YCL - YCL |
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It's white shame
19/12/2007 11:31
A DJ, as a Non white individual I think its foolish and irresponsible of you to make such statements, well I guess I cant blame you because some times our leaders (Intellectual guys) also make statements without sifting their thoughts properly e.g. HIV doesn?t cause AIDS and I toke a shower. Remember this was the ANC electing its leader, and therefore is ZUMA setting you free from whom? LOL. Common now remember the holocaust ,Rwanda genocide. - C |
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Democracy says...
19/12/2007 11:32
Statistics, as you point out can make things look so much worse, yet also give a clearer picture. Democacy says "Zuma, the minority put you up there - NOW you owe us(minority representing the majority)" let us hope your promises are not filled with rotten smelling gas. Good article Mike. - JD |
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Is ANC serving the country or It's own Agendas
19/12/2007 11:34
I just cannot deal with the fact that 2334 idiot has elected our a possible fraudster into poor. What makes me more mad is that we are all going to pay for that decisions they took. - Malabza - Lebogang Thole |
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Mike is saying...
19/12/2007 11:34
... that his supporters can't just fall back on the "shut up, the people have clearly spoken, JZ for pres" argument when faced with opposition to the possibility of a JZ president. He even said he acknowledges this is what happens everywhere. He is just saying that dismissing arguments (before you've heard them) against JZ based on "innocent until proven guilty" or "elected by the people" is short sighted and flawed. Be prepared to listen to criticism about your leaders! - levelheaded |
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Sies Mike
19/12/2007 11:44
I think that Mike is just trying to act smart here and guess what we heard u but bro, please refraine from making coments when u are not informed.These where ANC elections not the national elections IDIOT. - Martin |
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So sad..
19/12/2007 11:47
It is a sad sad day when a person accused of crime such as Zuma is able to access power as easily as he has. It is a shame that the masses in this country are so uneducated and therefore brainbrashed to believe otherwise. An uneducated man with a standard 6 is now leading this country forward. May God help South Africa. - D |
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JZ - Aint No Love Ft. Corrupt, and Get Money
19/12/2007 11:48
We all know that was to elect the leader of the ANC, but thus far it has been leader of ANC = leader of SA. Do you really truely want a man who is under a cloud of controversy to even have the possibilty of becoming your leader, and second do you think he will be taken seriously on the world stage. Also does it not worry you that there was no other candidate to stand besides the two. And in case you're wondering I too am black, but then seeing as I no likey ANC I must be a white racist!!! - WTF |
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Common sense
19/12/2007 11:52
Dear South Africans, lets all look at it this way, JZ was vice-president of the ANC, so it only makes sense that the next person to take over as president is the deputy, JZ!...pure common sense. - TA |
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FYI Pizozo
19/12/2007 11:54
She's cleaned up the city despite the ANC's interference,that's what she has done.Most well run city in SA (I wonder why?). - The Truth |
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Let's learn from the US
19/12/2007 11:55
This is how the US got into the position it is currently in! A spectacular fall of a superpower. Bush (not the brightest bulb in the box)also surrounded himself with "inteligent advisors" who guided him in matters that he knew little about (economy, world affairs, socio-political issues, etc). The majority of the US population that did vote, voted to reinstate Bush. Now look at where they find themselves. With only 18 months to go for our situation to salvaged , I have yet to hear - why Zuma? - Curious |
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