| |
|
|
| |
Tshepo
25/04/2008 08:43
I am glad to see that you agree that AA/BEE is inherently RACIST. Like APARTHEID, it is doomed to fail, and the country wiil fail as well. Accept it, it unconstitutional to discriminate against people. - hjs |
|
 |
| |
Well Tshepo
25/04/2008 08:44
Try to work for something and you'll realise you'll appreciate it much more. There is a reason why SA is going down the drain, and it is because of dump people in positions they can not fill. - johan |
|
|
| |
Well Tshepo
25/04/2008 08:45
Try to work for something and you'll realise you'll appreciate it much more. There is a reason why SA is going down the drain, and it is because of dump people in positions they can not fill. - johan |
|
|
| |
Tshepo
25/04/2008 08:46
You cannot talk generally about a personal experience. I have witnessed the complete opposite where I work. I have seen young black unqualified interns come in and not just climb the ladder but they are like a slingshot right up to seniot management. I don't mind, I realise the importance of AA, I support AA the big difference between you and me is that I don't harbour any ill feelings or misguided guilt... to be continued.. - Point Blank |
|
|
| |
Excuse me.....
25/04/2008 08:48
"Yes, policies such as AA/EE are unfair to some, and when incorrectly implemented they can create a crisis." Exactly what is happening in SA today!!!! Where were you the last few years when our health, education, infrastructure, ESKOM, government, and bla bla bla all the rest of our country is falling apart because of idiots that has the right skin color and ARE EE APPOINTMENTS??????? Halllooooo! Can somebody just shake Leballo so that he can come around??? light????? - Ruby Jane |
|
|
| |
Then why the stupid constitution
25/04/2008 08:50
The current gavamant in change is probably the only in the world which doesn?t do what is legislation says.
(A)Our constitution states no one shall be discriminated against, race colour, sex, blah... NOT TRUE, BEE/AA/EE
(B) We live in a democratic country blah... NOT TRUE, ANC alliance with SACP(COMMUNIST Party!?) Democracy would like to see COMMUNISM abolished!
(C) I think this is the only country where the minority is discriminated against. AA is used to PROTECT THE MINORITY not THE MAJORITY
- One dream |
|
|
| |
tshepo 2
25/04/2008 08:50
I get rather annoyed when I read soppy "poor me I'm so done in by AA" from white people because they clearly do not see the importance of AA. On the land issue, what percentage of those 60% black people would have the knowledge to make that land productive? You need to stop and think that instead of just giving people things. There is world food shortages and look at Zim, so much land taken and nothing coming from it! AA is working, you just blind to it as you are only looking in one place. - Point Blank |
|
|
| |
Apartheid to blame..again
25/04/2008 08:53
As to the above I'm sure that was an isolated incident. Lets not blame the extremely ineffective ANC for the immoral, crime ridden, racist society we live in. They don't function as a proper governement should, and have brought this country to its knees in every sense of the word since they came into power. From the cost of living going up, to an insane increase in crime! Government turns a blind eye, whilst pocketing money that should be used for the upliftment of SA. The governement is JOKE! - Michelle |
|
|
| |
Tsepo please explain to me...
25/04/2008 08:54
...what good can come from forcing someone with limited experience into a position without training them? Be honest! Why is it so difficult for black people to understand that unfortunately white people will have to train/teach/mentor black people in certain jobs to HELP them. Why cant black people understand this???? It is not that we think we are better, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR EXPERIENCE!!!! - jannie |
|
|
| |
apartheid created AA
25/04/2008 08:54
And the ANC promised to get rid of racism. The ANC based their policies on Colour and if they were humane enough and knew any better or have the slightest inclination and plan for the future they would have not put these policies in place. Do they regret their actions? NO!!! Instead of of finding solutions to the challenges they, yes the ANC, have become capitalists. - free education for all |
|
|
| |
Reality of the world
25/04/2008 08:54
The "reality of the world" is that black people have, throughout history and the world, been slaves, oppressed, victims and an inferior race. So, my friend, you also need to accept the "realities of the world". Black people do need AA to lift themselves up. Can you imagine if there was no AA. There would be no wealthy/middle class black people. You also need to take responsibility for your own actions. The apartheid government was not perfect but neither is the ANC government. - helen |
|
|
| |
Black owned farms
25/04/2008 08:55
I agree that more farmland should belong to blacks, as long as it's done in a civilized manner, not like Zimbabwe. But, Tshepo, many of these black farm owners have no idea what they're doing. Government hands over the farm, they can't produce nearly as much as the white owners! They need help and training. Like a certain big citrus farm in Mpumalanga: used to thrive. Got handed over - farm went downhill. Why? The new owners weren't trained to produce. Training is needed! - Chantelle |
|
|
| |
Wrong approach
25/04/2008 08:55
The only thing wrong wit AA/BEE is that the focus should have been expanding structures not cutting it up to adhere to a ratio,if you go from 15 clients and suddenly you have to cater for 100 clients you wont cut your staaf you will hire additional staff.That is where AA/BEE went wrong,trying to change existing structures to accomodate a ratio!Government should've created an environment where more people are employed,that would have automatically address the ratios of representation! - Mike |
|
|
| |
Transformation
25/04/2008 08:55
I partially agree with you man. But I agree more with Libembe. The way transformation is supposed to be occuring is by doing a root cause analysis to the problems facing our society. Appointing a less experienced candidate for a senior position can cost companies Millions if no BIllions.It has already did in many sectors. Blacks form 79% of the popultion not your 85% but they form less than 5% of the intellectuals and academics whose research ideas and findings are used to run firms. Why mess up? - Holahola |
|
|
| |
agree with you, Tshepo
25/04/2008 08:56
I work in financial services and it is shocking how un-diverse the workplace is - and the ignorance that abounds. I am the only professional black employee in the company (the other black people being the cleaning staff and receptionist).If integrating black people into the economy "naturally" would have happened anyway,can someone explain why black graduates are still more likely to be jobless than any other race group? - VG |
|
|
| |
Transformation is Crap
25/04/2008 08:56
I partially agree with you man. But I agree more with Libembe. The way transformation is supposed to be occuring is by doing a root cause analysis to the problems facing our society. Appointing a less experienced candidate for a senior position can cost companies Millions if no BIllions.It has already did in many sectors. Blacks form 79% of the popultion not your 85% but they form less than 5% of the intellectuals and academics whose research ideas and findings are used to run firms. Why mess up? - Holahola |
|
|
| |
Nobody can put you in a corner if UR not cofortable there!
25/04/2008 08:59
Impossible to comment without all the facts Tshepo - we only have your version of the story. However, you say you were "... put into a corner..." while others were given opportunities. Why didn't you say something then? I'll tell you why - because you were quite happy to just sit there & do nothing, while the others showed the desire to get ahead! - bokkie |
|
|
| |
Spot on Tshepo!
25/04/2008 09:00
my opinion is that transformation laws were not needed in the first place if business took the initiative of transforming their staff set up first. for those nay sayers the transformation laws are not a unique occurence in SA, i think the USA has its own version of AA and the Asian Tigers do or had their own version of BBE. please note the following, just beacause the manager happens to be black it does not mean he/she is inept, there are brilliant managers out there of all races!! - Seppo |
|
|
| |
Blacks are no better than whites ;)
25/04/2008 09:00
AA is needed to uplift the poor black people. But unfortunately, policies like BEE are only benefiting a few elite black people. The majority of blacks are still poor. Blacks, just like whites, are after money and power. Its called survival. Blacks today are no better than whites during apartheid. - dhv |
|
|
| |
AA system
25/04/2008 09:01
As much as im against the disrimination of any form bt i beg to agree with Tshepo Leballo from his direct quote "Imperfect policies such as Apartheid will create imperfect solutions such as AA". Look at our education system is continously failing us & i believe until we get that right then we can start planning to completely remove the AA system but as long as there is still a problem of inequality then AA is here to stay bt we only need to improve on the effective way of implementing it. - C'ya |
|
|
| |
Tshepo
25/04/2008 09:02
I have no problem with correcting the wrongs of the past,but AA/BEE is draining the life out of this country.Just look at how under staffed the state departments are and then then look at the state they are in.SA has the people that can do the job,but they are excluded because of AA/BEE.With these policy's in place SA will never be the democratic country it is advertised as. - jl |
|
|
| |
You're right
25/04/2008 09:02
Tshepo, I'm white and I have to agree with you, mostly. Opportunities would not have been created for black people without AA - people can say what they want. In general though, and specifically in government, the problem isn't AA, its nepotism. I can help but think that there are many black people in business that would be far better suited to representing the nation's interests in parliament. What I'm saying is, if we have to have AA, let's AT THE VERY LEAST appoint the best AA candidate - ian |
|
|
| |
How transformation should have been implemented:
25/04/2008 09:03
Select a qualified (academic or little experience) black person and put him with a mentor with loads of experience. Let the mentor teach the person everything and when he/she is ready, the mentor can go. If this was done with ESKOM, we would not have been in darkness... - jannie |
|
|
| |
Wrong approach 2
25/04/2008 09:04
This whould've created a more efficient public as well as private sector.I don't think I need to mention examples,but if you are trying to redress the services of the past you need to take the structures or a model of the structures that was in place and expand it in order to accomodate the new and very large target group.All tiers of government are very misguided on this very fact! - Mike |
|
|
| |
Crap man!!!!!
25/04/2008 09:04
In Limpopo there used to be farms that produced the highest number of Oranges, Mangoes and Bananas. When ANC took over government in 1994 the farms were doing pretty well. As the years progressed SARDC implemented their crap of appointing people on the basis of their skin colour. The farms are now not even in the top 100 producers of Oranges, Bananas and Mangoes. The people who took over the farms had no farming experience at all. Go look at the farms and tell me that you still wanna give farms. - Holahola |
|
|
| |
Fighting apartheid and AA
25/04/2008 09:05
Blacks during apartheid did not fight for freedom, they fought for power and wealth. Whites during apartheid fought for power and wealth. Its all about greed. There are only a few blacks benefitting from AA/BEE. Whites in SA will overcome these obstacles, because whites are survivors and have survived in South Africa for more than 300years. - deb |
|
|
| |
Crap man!!!!!
25/04/2008 09:05
In Limpopo there used to be farms that produced the highest number of Oranges, Mangoes and Bananas. When ANC took over government in 1994 the farms were doing pretty well. As the years progressed SARDC implemented their crap of appointing people on the basis of their skin colour. The farms are now not even in the top 100 producers of Oranges, Bananas and Mangoes. The people who took over the farms had no farming experience at all. Go look at the farms and tell me that you still wanna give farms. - Holahola |
|
|
| |
ha ha ha
25/04/2008 09:06
I would like to talk to you again in 5years time. The demise of SA's economy, agriculture and politics shouldn't take long. Why...? because the SA boat is tipping heavily AND the world economy is stirring up a "nice" storm. The shallow policies from this government is going to create deep trouble (make sure you have a life jacket :-) - anton |
|
|
| |
Like I said yesterday
25/04/2008 09:08
None of us can comment on BEE/AA. We are all privileged. We have all had an education. We are all checking our news online. We have access to computers etc. BEE/AA has been abused, it was meant to uplift the poor and the uneducated. Not the BWM-driving fat cats. Unfortunately the voiceless masses cannot comment on these forums. So to the white/black commentators here, all your points are mute. - Sinudeity |
|
|
| |
AA has had it's day
25/04/2008 09:08
This country can no longer afford AA/EE - there's too much of a skills crisis - think Eskom for one.
- ash |
|
|
| |
Work for it
25/04/2008 09:08
In the 1960's 80% of business belonged to the Brits. Through hard work and education in 1994 80% belonged to the Afrikanrs. No Bee or EE. Why do black people need everything to be handed to them on a platter. Do they not have the ability to outwit outwork and outperform the others. Do you have that little faith in yourselvs? - vc |
|
|
| |
ur right tshepo
25/04/2008 09:09
i agree with u tshepo,i am currently in graduate programm appointed as trainee audit,bcuz my team leader is white and i am blck i was forced to be trained assessor which is not part of my training,just bcuz i am black my team leader doesnt bliv that i can able to deliver as an auditor. - v |
|
|
| |
Call a spade a spade
25/04/2008 09:09
AA policies are nothing more than racism. Discrimination, based solely on skin colour, is by definition, racism.
All BEE and AA (racism) is doing is creating a very small black elite (Motsepe etc) whilst the country goes backwards and the poorer get poorer.
Incompetence and greed (i.e. Eskom and government) is rewarded through obscene bonuses. Here is a novel idea ... How about actually working to get that piece of land you claim to inherently own ?. Oh sorry, this is Africa ... - Realist |
|
|
| |
@jannie
25/04/2008 09:11
Qouting jannie "Let the mentor teach the person everything and when he/she is ready, the mentor can go. If this was done with ESKOM, we would not have been in darkness..."
Yes this happend to a friend of mines father that worked for ESKOM 8 years ago. How would you feel if they told you "train this AA person, when youre done you are fired!" and the guy had 3 kids to support.. SHOCKING!!! - One dream |
|
|
| |
Apartheid never left
25/04/2008 09:12
Apartheid did not end in 1994 but continues to this day, the sides have simply changed.Business would have made strides in recruiting black employees regardless of policy. Having a structure like AA simply opens it to obvious abuse. It'll cost us more than it ever brings us. - AJ |
|
|
| |
Disillusioned White South African
25/04/2008 09:13
As a disillusioned white South African living in London after realising that there is no future for me in SA, this comment further confirms my reasons for leaving a country which I love so much. Neither I nor my family (both past or present) ever contributed to or benefited from Apartheid, yet we have are last in line when it comes securing employment. I only wish there was a better solution than AA. It is truly just as evil as apartheid ever was, what a joke Freedom Day is!!! - Oliver Bromley |
|
|
| |
AA must work or else...
25/04/2008 09:14
White people just don't get it. Black people have political power and the next battle will be the economic struggle. Unfortunately Trevor M's wealthy friendly (ie white) policies over the last decade have contributed substantially to the current millions of poor, homeless & starving black masses. We have the unique situation where the MD of Old Mutual SA (Proudly South Afican ???) earns R1m per month and the tea lady that leaves home at 5.00 to serve him tea earns less than R1500 per month. - pro AA |
|
|
| |
Live with the consequenses
25/04/2008 09:15
EE is all fine and well, and I agree with what it is trying to achieve. But unfortunately the portion of the population who contribute the majority of tax, and who own big businesses (and create jobs) are leaving South Africa in their droves, because of policies like this.
EE will be of no use when there are no jobs to be filled... - Graham |
|
|
| |
@VG
25/04/2008 09:15
Your question is as misguided as the approach to BEE,if you have a work environment that caters only for 10% of the population then there will be limited oppertunities!It is also desturbing to look at the population statistics (STATSA) and comparing that to the jubilation of business and politics over a 4% growth rate.So that is why so many graduates are still unemployed o yeah and remember a lot boils down to attracting the right type of student to follow or start a career path! - Mike |
|
|
| |
Transformation
25/04/2008 09:15
Tsepo.Afirmative action made me work for myself.I am white and 45 and i am making more money now that ever.Affirmative action was the best thing that ever happend to me.It forced me to work for myself as no one would employ me.More people should be self employed,you will be amazed at what you can achieve without relying on any body else.(By the way i believe that the best person should be employed for the job no matter who they are,especially after 14 years of the new South Africa. - James |
|
|
| |
Mindless
25/04/2008 09:15
The crazy thing is that we all recognize that Apartheid was bad. It favoured a select few regardless of their skill level, ability, work ethic etc. Nobody should know this better than those in power today who practice a new philosophy which favours a select few regardless of their skill level, ability, work ethic etc. It would appear to me that the new philosophy is as mindless as the old - nobody wins in the end, not even the select few, they didn't then and they won't now. - Anthony |
|
|
| |
Spot on Sello
25/04/2008 09:16
AA and EE has not taken off as whites wants us to believe. The boardrooms where decisions are taken remains lily white. The white corporate bullies are still dominating, calling the shots and undermining blacks. Black employees still at this stage of democracy plays a meaningless in blue chip companies. Libembe is still wet behind his ears in terms of what is happening in the corporate environment. - Calvin Mkhize |
|
|
| |
once again, education...
25/04/2008 09:16
Complete transformation can only occur through proper education of the previously disadvantaged. The sooner people understand this and stop rioting and boycotting univeritites the better. If everyone works hard and studies hard there will be no more reasons for not being employed. Todays students, unforetunately, think an education comes at no cost or sacrifice and will find any silly excuse not to go to classes. - greggo |
|
|
| |
Another Inane Contribution from Tshepo
25/04/2008 09:17
Coming from Tshepo, this article is hardly surprising in its content as people like him will always try to milk the AA system just as Whites milked the Apartheid system, which makes him no better than them despite his obvious dislike for them. AA is dysfunctional, and I will resist it and undermine it wherever and whenever I can. - Cynical |
|
|
| |
Transformation
25/04/2008 09:18
Tshepo, you are arguing against yourself. Two wrongs will never make a right. I agree that the apartheid policies held black people back but now AA is holding whites,coloureds and indians back. The problem with AA is that the skilled people are leaving and the black people are not filling the void. Our minister is talking about importing foreign skills so blacks are still losing out. AA does not make sense and the best qualified people will always be employed in the end. - Stormin |
|
|
| |
When do we stop?
25/04/2008 09:19
Tshepo, one major concern for me regarding AA, is when does it all stop? How do we know we have corrected the imbalances created by apartheid? At what point are people being advantaged too much? Are my children going to be disadvantaged when they start working in 20 year's time? I promise you I will not allow my children to be disadvantaged. - CalliedJ |
|
|
| |
Apartheid
25/04/2008 09:21
While many are worrying about filling their fuel tanks, many others around the world are struggling to fill their stomachs. You are all so engrossed in apartheid and AA/BEE, that you are not seeing the bigger picture. The entire world is in crisis. You all seem to to be brainwashed by SA problems, blaming apartheid and the Govt. wake up people, this is a world wide problem. People leaving SA will be faced with other dilemmas. And yes if you want to avoid crime, leave GAUTENG not SA you fools. - nmn |
|
|
| |
Good one Anton
25/04/2008 09:25
We are going backwards very quickly. - johan |
|
|
| |
Agreed in principle...
25/04/2008 09:29
I do believe that Transformation is necessary, although a more structured approach should be taken for the current generation (Post 1994). Tshepo, unfortunately your argument about your personal experience does not hold water, if working for one of SA?s biggest companies and you had raised this issue to HR, action would have been taken. Lets look at the positives that AA have brought about, learn from them, take the good and plan the way ahead. Two wrongs don?t make it acceptable, collaboration between all of us will. - GPNick |
|
|
| |
Tshepo is naturally right anyway..
25/04/2008 09:30
because even a few years after the AA implementation ,white is still the majority cream of the corporate South Africa,this system has just been steadily calculated & i'm very sure that only a few white noise makers felt victimized cuz they could'nt accept changes (Blacks also deserves the opportunity to play a role in this country's economic prosperity ).I trust that this Gov won't sink this ship delibarately just drown a few a white men. - Les-Maada |
|
|
| |
transformation is neccessary
25/04/2008 09:30
I agree that there should be some level of transformation in all faccets of life,but the problem is that the goverment is going about it in the wrong way,like was said on this forum,what does it help you put unskilled people in a position which they are not qualified for,based just on their skin,cause no matter what you say AA/BEE is based on skin colour and is racist. - creech |
|
|
| |
Apartheid created AA
25/04/2008 09:31
Tshepo's situation could be a personal experience. So lets look at the consolidated numbers at CEE. What do they tell us about AA progress in this country? Infrastructure: Roads, electricity etc. were meant for few handful (7 million people) cos now there is 43 million. - TT |
|
|
| |
Shame
25/04/2008 09:32
The previous dispensation was unequivically wrong as egreed by most people but what gives the current dispensation the justification to continue the tragedy under a different guise? The misconception that "whites had everything given to them" is appalling. I worked to get whatever position etc I obtained. The principle being missed dear fellow countrymen is "WORK". The way that BEE/AA is being implemented seems to ignore this "work ethic" and relies once again on handouts. It just does not work. - Peter |
|
|
| |
Tshepo, we need to cultivate our own
25/04/2008 09:32
Tshepo, I share your sentiments. I also raised another aspect yesterday, I asked why should we still be seeing a 85% whites and Indians still obtain multiple distinctions in matric. That is my biggest fear, I have less fear about economy being in white hands. If we fail to groom our kids with good quality education, we will still be looking at importing skills and neglecting other race groups that are otherwise qualified. Most of AA positions are held by Indians anyway, sad but true. I have also benefited from AA, however I contributed more than 85% to be recognised and pushed-up - Libembe |
|
|
| |
Blaming Apatheid.
25/04/2008 09:32
Everything is blamed on the past, when is the current government and it's fans going to take some accountability. Tshepo, why should government "transfer" land to black hands? I want a farm too... I'm sure if "black hands" like "white hands" have the money they too can purchase land. It's called "an economy" and people like you are ruining it with your liberation mentality bullS#!t. - Nick |
|
|
| |
Phumzile's Answer to AA
25/04/2008 09:33
There are justifications in certain areas for AA. And some areas were it should be forbidden and only employment on merit of ability - in key national utilities like Eskom. AA policies have forced qualified professionals to leave SA because there was not enough employment opportunities but what is Phumzile-Nguka's solution this week? Hire foreigners! Is she mad? Chase away white South Africans and employ foreigners! Is this AA? Bulldust! - Filemon |
|
|
| |
Amusing
25/04/2008 09:37
It is amusing to read in these blogs that a black appointment is associated with lack of skills, incompetence etc. I have seen both black and white managers who are idiots to put it lightly. I know of white managers who have a standard 8. Some of these make the strangest of decisions; any fool wouldn?t make and their lack of knowledge and education, lack of skill and incompetency is never associated with the colour of their skin. I ask all those who contribute in these blogs to ask themselves ?have you never seen incompetence in white people?. incompetence has nothing to do with the colour of ones skin. - thomas |
|
|
| |
bee all the way
25/04/2008 09:37
lets be honest, young whites and white women cannot complain not to have benefited under apartheid therefore should not suffer under ee, cos their parents and husbands benefited enough for them as well. EE therefore has to stay, and preferablly BBBEE for a much longer time. All is not lost for white men in any case, with SAs skill shortage and the EE scenario, many are becoming consulting and earning more than they used to, so everyone is benefiting. - aa |
|
|
| |
AA-bulsh*t
25/04/2008 09:40
Its been 14 years now down the line. If you still thinking that AA is nessesary then you are one of those that think (and know) that your skills aren't on par and have to rely on your colour. If everything was equal you would have confidence in yourself, but since you don't you rely on colour. Truely sad in my opinion... but then again it's your choice. - Tired |
|
|
| |
AA in its self is not the problem...
25/04/2008 09:43
it is in the implementation. Surely these policies should be benefitting the poor and disadvantaged, but its always the sames names that keep popping up as the real beneficiaries e.g. Patrice Motsepe, Tokyo,et al. A more developmental approach should be adopted too, to ensure that we're not simply filling posts with warm (black) bodies, but but that those blacks have the necessary skills. The motives are not sincere, they're vengeful and spiteful and will ultimately not succeed. - OB1 |
|
|
| |
to, Ian
25/04/2008 09:45
Ian, you are absolutely right how I wish some other white people can think like you then this country can grow tremendously well beacause its absolutely rubbish to think that some white owned companies will ever give an opportunities to black people. - Dlathu |
|
|
| |
Here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!
25/04/2008 09:46
when will this stop,AA/EE is good for this country and the only thing that makes it so wrong is its implemantation.Logic explicitly says 300 years of oppression can not be merely erased in 15 years,it will be stupid to think so.these policies are here to stay, what is the use of putting a black person on middle management and gives him/her no authority,AA/EE/BBBEEE are failing because our people are not supported.and thats a fact!! deal with it.Captain(gov)
needs a committed crew not spectator - Bokamoso |
|
|
| |
AA is not transformation
25/04/2008 09:48
It is window dressing. As many people have mentioned here there is no replacement for experience or knowledge. The ideal of transformation would be better served by creating oppurtunities to gain that experience and knowledge. ie give people equal education, give people equal facilities. Are there any township high Schools that have the prestige of say, Affies? If not, after 15 years, WHY NOT? All the BEE millionaires in the world will not create an equal society until those differences are gone - mallencolly |
|
|
| |
Keep Dreaming
25/04/2008 09:48
I run my own company and most of my work force is balck, I just find that it's not an education problem amongst my black it's attitude. I am a firm believer that attitude determines altitude, and I am sorry but black South Africans don't know how to multi task and they just can't seem to think logically or laterally for that matter. They are in capabale. One white staff member can do 3 black peoples job in a day...amazing! - yeahright |
|
|
| |
asked and answered
25/04/2008 09:49
Financial Manager (AA)
R550,000-650,000 P/A Cost To Company
Gauteng - Johannesburg
Network Finance Recruitment - Mike |
|
|
| |
greggo...You LACK education.....read what you wrote (spelling)
25/04/2008 09:49
The sooner people understand this and stop rioting and boycotting univeritites the better. If everyone works hard and studies hard there will be no more reasons for not being employed. Todays students, unforetunately, think an education comes at no cost or sacrifice and will find any silly excuse not to go to classes. - Pierre |
|
|
| |
@nmn
25/04/2008 09:50
if you think its just Gauteng thats got crime problems, you're living in a dream world! The rest of the world might have problems but most countries that ppl are emigrating too, their problems pale in comparison, largely cos they have healthy democracies and generally uncorrupt govt. (there'll obviously be elements of corruption in any govt., but nowhere in the same universe as what we have). Black politicians are too proud to learn from their white western counterparts. - OB1 |
|
|
| |
Apartheid again. #1
25/04/2008 09:50
Tshepo, BEE and AA has not worked, i CHALLENGE you to show me where it has? Government officials have created nests for themselves and bugger the rest. CAN YOU NOT SEE WHAT HAS HAPPENED? A very small percentage have been empowered and at a guess, i reckon we are talking of less than 1%. The system is flawed, not broken cos it never worked in the first place. - John Camp |
|
|
| |
Whether we like it or not
25/04/2008 09:51
something was needed to correct the imbalances of the past. Everybody, please read Ian's comment - what has gone wrong with AA is nepotism and not the principle. Re the land issue - I am due to start farming beginning of next year; the amount of capital and knowledge that is needed is incredible, so this must be born in mind when transferring land, which must happen for the future good of South Africa. - Dave Robbins |
|
|
| |
Dear Mike
25/04/2008 09:53
Financial services is actually the biggest secctor of the economy, accounting for over 20% of GDP and its...all white like most of corporate SA. AA/BBEE offers black people opportunities that may not previously existed for them, but I had to work for my masters degree like evryone else. - VG |
|
|
| |
Yip
25/04/2008 09:54
Transformation has led us nowhere,it should of rather been implemented soley on merit. Theres alot highly educated/skilled multi racial people out there and by forcing transformation it led us to this s*#t hole that we are in! - Hilton |
|
|
| |
You are missing the point...
25/04/2008 09:55
BEE was created to address the countless discretions of the past Apartheid govt. It has its place in our country and if implemented correctly it can work...In most cases the fact that it isn't implemented correctly shouldn't be cause enough for whiteys to complain..Johan, if we ar going backwards then get off the 4kin bus and walk...We have suffered under apartheid now whiteys must feel the pain...Those tht want to leave pls 4k off we don't need racists in this country... - Masti |
|
|
| |
Land..
25/04/2008 09:55
and farming in particular. Firstly where did you come up with this figure of 60%? Do we have enough skilled black farmers that can work the land? We don't have to look very far to establish that it hasn't worked elsewhere. Your remaining points have NOTHING to do with AA & BEE as a system. - John Camp |
|
|
| |
Devil's Advocate
25/04/2008 09:55
Well, I would like to play devil's advocate here. How many remember the good old days of apartheid, when white people had job reservation? And all the opportunities in the work place? The thing is that AA WAS needed (and yes I missed out on a number of opportunities in my company because of AA). But I am not bitter, the only thing about AA that worries me, is the poor implementation. Its ok if someone on the same level as me gets the job, but I dont agree that someone who is obviously incompetent - Truth |
|
|
| |
Apartheid created AA, BEE, poverty .........
25/04/2008 09:55
We are poor bcoz of apartheid. Why not blame it? Where on earth have you seen white people changing naturally without any form of pressure/law? It is the ANC duty to make sure that the injustices of the past are corrected. To them is fair when 14% of the population ownes the large part of the economy. The struggle is not over, Poor "Libembe" Black people still need those laws, Blacks brought democracy and will bring equality at all levels with AA, BEE etc... - Siza |
|
|
| |
Roles reversed
25/04/2008 09:56
It never ceases to amaze me. AA/BEE is one of the reasons as to why skilled labour is leaving the country, yet the government wants to import skilled labour. And AA has failed dismally, only a small manority have managed to benefit from it. In a nutshell it has caused more harm than good. I feel that the right person for the right job should be hired regardless of race. Why do you think that we have the issues that we currently have in the country at the moment? - Furious |
|
|
| |
There is never an excuse for discrimination ...
25/04/2008 09:58
Have you noticed that every person who discriminates has his own personal reasons for doing so? The British, Afrikaners, Germans, Americans, Zimbabweans and the black South Africans - all armed with reasons and excuses for their inexcusable behaviour. When are we going to accept that, no matter what your excuse for discimination is, the effects will always remain the same: more hate, resentment, division and ultimately war and death. - Puhleez |
|
|
| |
@ v
25/04/2008 09:59
Having taken a look at your grammer, HEAVEN knows how you got into any graduate program in the first place. I'd love to hear you read your comment in one breath. - John Camp |
|
|
| |
Apartheid created AA, BEE, poverty .........
25/04/2008 09:59
We are poor bcoz of apartheid. Why not blame it? Where on earth have you seen white people changing naturally without any form of pressure/law? It is the ANC duty to make sure that the injustices of the past are corrected. To them is fair when 14% of the population ownes the large part of the economy. The struggle is not over, Poor "Libembe" Black people still need those laws, Blacks brought democracy and will bring equality at all levels with AA, BEE etc... - Siza |
|
|
| |
Malaysia
25/04/2008 10:00
It is interesting to note that Malaysia has had policies similar to AA and BEE in effect for some time now- in an attempt to give more wealth to the ethnic Malays in the country. This has led to widespread corruption and cronyism (sound familiar?). Now the ruling party that implements these policies is starting to lose its grip on the country as poor Malays finally realise that the government does not have their best interests at heart. - grant |
|
|
| |
Wake up and smell the coffee
25/04/2008 10:01
Because 2 wrongs do not make it right. Both are wrong. Let it go, it is 14 years later and we are worse off. This government cannot/could not fix it. Let's hope the next one fares better.
Furthermore, the longer you keep that chip on your shoulder the more painful your shoulder will become. - Vinkie |
|
|
| |
Descrimination = less good + more bad
25/04/2008 10:05
Descriminatory appointments mean that skilled people that are marginalised will leave. A seat filled by an incompetent appointed based on colour and sex, who does not contribute effectively, means that the results are comprimised. When the wake up call finally comes, the skills are gone. In the greater scheme of things, the pool of the hungry and destitute will have larger instead of smaller. Way to go descriminatory laws, the losses are unfortunately outweighing the gains. - AJC |
|
|
| |
AA/ BEE can benefit all of us
25/04/2008 10:06
AA & BEE can benefit all of us if implemented correctly. Apartheid created a situation where as a country were not able to utilize all of our human resources potential to contribute to the economic well being of the country.The objective of AA & BEE is to position ourselves to use all of our human resources potential by developing people, with preference, but not exclusively, to those who were previously denied opportunities. Enable them to catch up so we can contribute collectively. - Chuene |
|
|
| |
concerned
25/04/2008 10:11
How I wish that one day, white people of this country will come to realise that whatever problems we have in this country they have directly and INdirectly contributed to them no matter how they justify how good they are and how they were ordained to be superior then other people. Looking at the comments that are being made it makes me fill ashamed of being a christian because I wonder how can justify yourself for making such derogatory statements as a Christian as most whites are. - Dlathu |
|
|
| |
AA/BEE
25/04/2008 10:12
The solution is actually simple. In nature, only the strongest survive, so, it stands to reason that in business and the economy, appoint the best person for the job! Skin colour,gender, don't matter, the ability to do the job is what counts. AA/BEE appoints (mostly, not all) incompetent, unskilled people to fulfil crucial functions and when they cock up, a la Eskom and most public services, these same ignoramous' can't be fired. This is why Africa is in the dwang! - Sean |
|
|
| |
Calvin the ignorant...
25/04/2008 10:13
calvin you will always be undermined with that type of thinking. why dont you start your own business? no-one is stopping you. you want to walk into a CEO position straight out of high school. you and your brethren are pathetic. always want hand outs and special treatment. try WORKING for something for a change. you never get anywhere without hardwork, and if you dont get promoted because you're not good enough i'm pretty sure you will say "its cause i'm black isn't it".. - mp3's mentor |
|
|
| |
How about working for what you want???
25/04/2008 10:13
Everybody always wants to be given education, jobs, qualifications etc. Did any of you think about working for it - earning it? If you want a farm, learn how to run a farm, earn the money to buy a farm and then you can have a farm, but you just want somebody to give it to and then make it their business to teach you how to run it. When do you take responsibility for your own future instead of sitting around whining and waiting for somebody to give it to you??? - Karen |
|
|
| |
When will we all be equal??
25/04/2008 10:14
I am a white South African that wasnt past of the previous regime and nowI find myself part of the currently disadvantaged, A white male. I believe bringing racial quotas just enforces segrigation(english for apartheid)Yes it is true that transformation needed to take place, but haw much longer are we going to deny truely skilled workers from being employed while our country falls apart. power crisis our roads are falling apart... sewage upgrades and maintenance ect. - The Realist |
|
|
| |
From Best to Worst
25/04/2008 10:14
Apartheid protected the Whites and now AA is protecting the Blacks. Everything is not Black & White. Where or what is our so called "Rainbow Nation"? A select few in the country are just out to enrich themselves, just like in the Apartheid days....corruption growing daily like a disease. This country is going backwards living up to the African continent standard. - Sam |
|
|
| |
Media Fictions
25/04/2008 10:16
BEE was created to address the countless discretions of the past Apartheid govt. Uuuuuuuh - like for instance what and how where you affected? - Sentinel |
|
|
| |
What is there to debate?
25/04/2008 10:17
Why AA and BEE? Because we can! End of debate. Whites (this i realise is gross generalisation)now want to speak of equality and discrimination, voted for NAT apartheid. Equality and discrimination didnt matter too much then did it? Did it make you want to leave the country then? Why AA and BEE? Because we can! Alternatively, we could demolish your houses, steal your belongings, take your land and inheritance and shoot your kids. Only then will we be square and all will be forgiven. - Ami |
|
|
| |
Racism is Racism whether Blacks are racist or others are
25/04/2008 10:17
If apartheid is a crime against humanity, so too are AA and BEE. The Politically Correct world today does not see this. In time it will. Since the Mugabe-loving Thabo got power, he and his cabinet actively promoted discrimination on the basis of skin colour: typical of lying, stealing and cheating politicians! In 1992 and 1994 all in SA voted against discrimination by colour. Pity the "returned exiles" like Manto and Thabo did not get this point. Vote them all out in 2009! - Alan |
|
|
| |
AA with training.
25/04/2008 10:17
Tshepo. As a foriegner living in South Africa I can only say that AA is being implemented wrongly. Whilst I agree that it must occur it has to happen in a way where proper training is provided. At present a lot of people are put in positions they are not qualified for. As for the boardroom, you cannot force people there who do not have the experience to run a company. I agree this is lacking because of the past, but to fast track this would be a disaster for the company and potential future jobs. - BJ |
|
|
| |
AA
25/04/2008 10:17
AA is great if implemented properly, but it is not. If 2 candidates with the same experience and qualifications apply for the same position then the AA candidate should get the position (Forget company culture and personality fit). AA is currently used as a racism tool that is made legal by legislation. Our countries track record verifies that AA is in place but not working. See Eskom, Crime, Gas supplies for confirmation that our Gov is racist. - Mark |
|
|
| |
@michelle
25/04/2008 10:19
You say the current GoV. is not functioning like a proper Gov should. Tell me R u saying the Previous Gov. was the 1 functioning like a propoer Gov?? Listen to yourself ok! - zakes |
|
|
| |
@OB1
25/04/2008 10:22
Gauteng is the crime capital of the world. People living there have actually paid no attention on how to live. Evil has spre |
