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Corruption: To be or not to be

by
2008-12-05 08:08

Richard Hipkin, News24 User

I'm sitting here scratching my head wondering what the hell is going on. Five extremely dangerous men have escaped from a police cell in Durban.

Now, I ask you with a tear in my eye, how do five very dangerous men cut through, and I quote, "the exercise area of the prison cells" in the early hours of the morning?

Immediately two things spring to mind: 1) What are five extremely dangerous men doing in the exercise area of a prison cell in the early hours of the morning, and 2) What are five extremely dangerous men doing in the exercise area of a prison cell in the early hours of the morning?

Two of these men are cop killers; they were part of a gang who ambushed a police escort escorting cash-in-transit.

I did a quick study and found that close to 34 000 awaiting trail prisoners have escaped from South African holding cells and that was only up to 2002.

Sad reality

Are you suddenly feeling a little bewildered? That is a staggering figure. Surely, five dangerous men should be locked in a maximum holding facility with 24-hour observation, or are we infringing on their human rights, their dignity and the constitutional rights to be innocent until proven guilty?

Is this a classic case of under-resourced police or a case of "yes I have a job but I'm so damn greedy I will only think of myself and that shiny new jacket I can buy myself" syndrome?

How many "policemen" have been arrested for assisting criminals escape? How many escapees have murdered again? How many more will be afforded a meal ticket and allowed to escape for the cost of a pair of shoes or an expensive jacket?

Now, being an ex-policeman, I am a little reluctant to say it's solely a case of corruption and that the sad reality is that there are simply not enough policemen to look after the insane amount of prisoners in this crime infested country.

But I'm not so sure anymore. I think every state department has rotted to such an extent that I'm positive that corruption and crime pay, and your government salary doesn't.

Watching Third Degree on etv or any other "hidden camera" investigative shows show endlessly the level of corruption in this country.

The sad reality is that this is being committed by people who are employed, who are earning a salary and who are educated and have qualifications.

Work for it

I doubt very much that this is as a result of the hardships suffered under colonial rule or the evil of apartheid.

This is just common criminality and greed feed by the sheer reluctance of certain state organisations that seem either powerless to stop it or are just a rotten as the perpetrators.

What are the reasons for this disgusting act of criminality? It is common greed and a sense of entitlement. They want the flashy stuff, the bling. They want to impress their neighbours. They want to be superior. They want the power. They want the wealth.

Then damn well work for it like the rest of us.

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MysticBoer 12/5/2008 8:18:22 AM
Good article, these rotten apples are spoiling the whole basket. But can we expect anything else the tree is rotten too?
M 12/5/2008 8:21:48 AM
No,since even some that benefited from Apartheid are still corrupt.It is in the way people are brought up,you will always have rotten apples that say help convicts escape,but when its that obvious one has to look a bit deeper.Sorry to say,but values are last thing Africans are taught&even those that never ever required bribes to feed a hungry family just do it because they can&they have no moral fiber in their body.Blame Apartheid all you want,I blame it on upbringing or the lack thereof
scorp 12/5/2008 8:22:45 AM
Pity they wont read it pity they won't act on it... For a country claiming to be fair and free.... it looks pretty one sided a criminal world.... But like with most other things The anc will just say "we" the public are negative... and then admit in few months time this article and it's results are not normal... yet fail to act on it.. But no need to escape anymore we release criminals the momemt our prisons are full....
Francois 12/5/2008 8:23:45 AM
Richard, very cool article HOWEVER, I'm afraid that the ANC supporters will come up with irrational explanations as to why these guys are living the lives they do. IMO the reason why this country is in the state that it's in, is because crims have no fear of that little mythical thing called LAW. BRING BACK something that we all fear, NO LES, not apartheid BUT the DEATH PENALTY?
Fanie 12/5/2008 8:25:42 AM
To be or not to be - just take a good look at big business, nothing different
Ivan 12/5/2008 8:25:59 AM
Funny thing, for all the evils of apartheid, at least we didn't have the levels of crime we have now. One can argue that Apartheid is/was the biggest crime perpetuated by the state or anyone, but at least we all could sleep well at nights, and that is not to say that there wasn't any crime, but is this total apathy by the this government in fighting crime what we need? I think not.
M 12/5/2008 8:26:18 AM
I must add that I see with regret that a lot of the descendants of European immigrants following the same path on the basis of "I pay all my bills/taxes and get nothing for it, so I might as well join them in corruption since I can't beat them".Its sad to see that the integrity of most South Africans is now dubious to say the least.People should be ashamed.
Kolobe 12/5/2008 8:26:19 AM
It is easy for people like Richard to say work for it, how do they work if they have criminal records.The south African laws promotes criminals elements, when a person steals a loaf of bread because he/she is hungry, then he get arrested and listed on the criminal record list, that means that the person is sentenced to criminal elements for the rest of his life, since he cannot get work anywhere, when a person has served their sentences then they should not have a criminal record so that they can earn a living, I don understand the logic of punishing the person with a record that disqualifies him to earn a living, it is unconstitutional, everyone should have a right to make a living, but in south Africa they criminalise a corrected or repented person.
Harris 12/5/2008 8:27:10 AM
MP's, the law and policy makers of this country, are guilty of fraud. Our famous constitution protects them, and they still stay in parliament. They even vote to get rid of the people daring to prosecute them. What message does that convey to the man on the street? It seems corruption and fraud are OK!
VG 12/5/2008 8:27:24 AM
..its just symptomatic of a system that isn't working. People do it becasue it's easy - they know that the chances of them being caught are pretty slim and even if they are, they'll be suspended on full pay pending disciplinary action which can take years.Even then , they may not be found guilty.I think the only solution(besides tougher controls) is to restore pride in the police uniform
Stryder 12/5/2008 8:27:56 AM
As a caller to 702 explained the otherday. In African culture when you are the Headman or in a positionof authority and someone wants you to do something for them you bring a gift as a"thank you in advance". Corruption occurs all over the world, but not so badly it seems as in Africa.
colin 12/5/2008 8:28:20 AM
No one ever made a statement that the reason for the high level of corruption in RSA is as a result of Apartheid or as a result of the hardships suffered by under the colonial rule - there are many a more evils we can blame unto apartheid and the your holy queen of england. Corruption is a disease that does not only affect RSA but also first world countries like the USA and other countries in Europe - both in the USA and in Europe there are crime syndicates which operates like they a untouchable ? this problem is not unique to RSA it happens all over the world and is committed by people of all races and creeds.
White_African 12/5/2008 8:33:17 AM
Let's call it what it is, THIEVES. Should all be treated as criminals and thrown in jail along with the other criminals. THIEVES !!!
WhiPnTickle 12/5/2008 8:36:18 AM
its is extremely clear the ANC has no clue how to implement policy in this country. the biggest problem is our LAW. our Law is to soft and brittle. This country needs shock treatment. plan and simple the ANC is not working it has screwed up not only this country but Zimbabwe.
Badger 12/5/2008 8:37:28 AM
And quite right, it has nothing to do with the old government. It is pure greeeeeeeeeeeed. The more they have the more they want PERIOD. As for those escapeeeeeees, they know "CRIME PAYS WELL in SA,,,VER WELL" !!! lets form a vigilante group and start putting a couple of bodies in the rivers. And I say this to the people of Soweto to Sandton, Thembisa to Tswane, Kempton Park to Khatlahong. Let the PEOPLE of our land start putting an end to this cancer eating away our land. "PERIOD" !!!
Calvin Mkhize 12/5/2008 8:41:22 AM
As SA is a free democratic and a country such incidence are reported without fear of state security forces. During the apartheid era this kind of reporting was supressed by the apartheid security forces. Another problem is that our jails are congested with petty criminals. The state should release all petty offences such as shoplifting, intimidation charges e.t.c. These things used to happen during the Botha,Verwoerd era. However I promise that the ANC government will arrest those escapees.
johnnybnice 12/5/2008 8:42:26 AM
It would seem that the higher the crime rate of a region/country, the more corruption prevails. This becomes, then, a vicious cycle that makes it all the more difficult to stamp out the evil
M 12/5/2008 8:42:44 AM
Very true, these are however syndicates and the amount of people that take part in illegal activists is much lower. What Mr. Hipkin is talking about is the fact that corruption&beating the law has almost become the national past time of South Africans.This is a disturbing fact don't you think?You will always find bribeable prison wardens but if you have to look hard to find those that aren't then you realize that you are in BIG trouble.Who can still trust these days?
siswe 12/5/2008 8:43:40 AM
Richard, if you are busy 'scratching your head' it is merely a sign you might have head lice. As for your emotional 'moment' regarding prisoners who escape just remember that you can only use the word 'escape' when they are actually running away from someone or something. It does not apply to people who are let loose by prison guards after said guards have been given cigarettes and/or blow jobs. Besides, it is easier to let someone loose rather than wasting your time trying to rehabilitate.
Peter 12/5/2008 8:45:01 AM
Kolobe, you fool, whats the police, wardens excuse?? Were not talking about the criminals locked up only, but thoses that promote futher crime?? get it???
LL 12/5/2008 8:45:44 AM
I believe serial criminality reflect who you really are and what values you hold. No amount of moral teaching can change the mind of a dedicated thug irrespective of social status, financial position. That's why we have blue 7 white collar crime and all other violent crimes.
M 12/5/2008 8:48:07 AM
I don't think SA is unique in that way. Most companies abroad will think twice about hiring someone with a criminal record especially if you have to work with money and have been found guilty of steeling money. Damn right, I say, I wouldn't give the guy a second chance either. He can sweep streets,at least there he can't steel much.Why don't you protect those that have never ever broken a law for a change,its way harder to stay criminal record free than to be a criminal!
siswe 12/5/2008 8:48:35 AM
Since when does a guy picking up people for painting jobs ask his prospective painters if they have criminal records? I can't think of one. Don't disillusion yourself - it is not because they can't get jobs, it is because they'd rather scratch their own ass and pee in a park than actually do any work. These people are lazy and will go through life living off of others. They are parasites.
M 12/5/2008 8:49:08 AM
Sorry, if you are smart, everything is easy, but do you see me stealing or breaking the law? Bad argument!
Read 12/5/2008 8:50:22 AM
Please read the article again. He is talking about cop killers that escaped, not someone that steal a bread. The good cops are killed for the greed of the bad cops.
hopeful? 12/5/2008 8:51:31 AM
if you earned R5000/month and had to support your entire family, while working with the scum of the earth every day, you would also be corrupt. INCREASE their salaries so that they don't need to take bribes and be corrupt. The government has more than enough money. Thats the only answer.
siswe 12/5/2008 8:52:25 AM
Yes, but they hide it better... The least we should learn is to hide our corruption instead of flaunting it like a pink handbag. Corruption is not a 'disease' Colin. It is a rash that started in-between Zuma's legs just before he took that famous shower...
Bethuel 12/5/2008 8:55:53 AM
There is a protocol in all government dept.from Minister to Correctional service official whom to blame?the escapees were assisted either by their outsiders or staff in correctional services if so why investication canot revealed that.meaning every move was well planned.So all the blame must remain with the head of dept,including of offials. ANC wake up and smell the coffee.
malcolmx 12/5/2008 8:59:18 AM
I am more concerned about the 40 million South Africans that are outside the cells. Not much evolution takes place in 200 years. 90% of our 40 million inhabitants forefathers where cutting each others hearts out & eating them around two hundred years ago in good old S.A. I think they thought it would make them better warriors or something, hence the ongoing popularity of mutie killings. We are talking great grandfathers. Thats more scary.
Joe333 12/5/2008 9:00:48 AM
Firstly, many people have claimed that the very high crime in general and corruption specifically, is due to the apartheid system. Yes, corruption and crime is rife all other the world, but ours seem to be multiples of everyone else?s. Does this make corruption ok? I think not! We need an effective police force with a policy of zero tolerance, even to petty crimes, before we will get anywhere near controlling it!
Badger 12/5/2008 9:01:51 AM
"PAY THEM MORE" ???? are you for real ??? If they got R20 000.00 a month, they would still want more. Hell, give them R30 000.00 a month They still want more !!!!!!! SOLUTION ???? get honest people (if there are any left)
Khumbuza 12/5/2008 9:02:03 AM
The most corrupt insitution in our land is THE DRIVER LICENCE TESTING centres,especially kwaMhlanga.Politics aside, i think the best person to help handle corruption is Zille.She is not afraid to fire.The only problem is that she is in the DA and the DA has interests of the white minority at heart.Maybe Zille should consider moving to COPE.Only a few ANC people have guts to fire corrupt officials.But we must never be mistaken into thinking that corruption is a race issue.
Ryan 12/5/2008 9:02:19 AM
Colin, your point is very accurate that corruption is not unique to RSA. However, why should that be a justification? Things like crime should not be judged relatively. If it happens elsewhere, that is their problem. Our problem is sorting it out in our country. So if corruption exists in the US, it is just not acceptable for us to turn a blind eye to the corruption existing here, as it is what happens here that directly affects us. Regards.
cedb00 12/5/2008 9:04:20 AM
Hey Kolobe, people don't steal because they are hungry, they steal because they are criminals, chief. There are a lot of hungry people who don't steal, finish and klaar! And BTW chief, if you argue that they steal because they are hungry, then why rape, torture and murder??????????
Jayzee 12/5/2008 9:08:09 AM
The apartheid government committed unbearable crimes against the masses but some idiots are saying it was better during apartheid because the white community was not affected. Blacks lived in fear everyday of their lives and nobody cared. Today, crime affects all of us and instead of finding a common ground some idiots are pointing fingers. There is no country in the world which will win the war against crime without the involvement of the community. You are free to blame the ANC and the government but the community holds the key to this scourge. Criminals are not aliens because they live and sleep with us. They plan their activities around us and we know but do not care to say anything. I bet some of them are our families, relatives, husbands and wives. Report crime and see what difference it makes.
M 12/5/2008 9:11:17 AM
Yes Mr. Mkhize, why earn a honest living when you can get away with shoplifting. Hell, next time I fill my food basket, I'll just walk out without paying. Groceries are expensive, I'll have more money for drugs and booze. Once again you don't understand the concept of wrong and right, go thank your parents for that.Unlike you, I believe paying for things I use and services that are rendered to me&I grew up under Apartheid
Pietskiet 12/5/2008 9:13:43 AM
Do you promise the ANC will catch those criminals? Hehe. Man, you're funny bru. The ANC is all about struggle but yet, never free. It's about promises that are not kept. It's about being in charge but not really managing. Put some clever people into government. Educate the masses with discipline. Zero tollerance for crime for God's sake just look at Botswana. But no, a leader should look good in a black suit and look important, like Mbeki or Bob, and be served like gods. This is Africa, eish!
Acid0 12/5/2008 9:13:53 AM
The apartheid thing gets mentioned. I fail once again to see the logic. No race was mentioned of the corrupt cops but some individuals gets it right to read between THEIR lines. This is about coorupt cops that earns a salary (so they are not hungry they have money to buy food) but wants the salary of a CEO of a big company. This does not work like that and you have to be pleased to have a job and make a bit of money to survive like the rest of us that does not live in Braynston.
Ko 12/5/2008 9:14:09 AM
Well said but you must also look at all the facts. The police are paid shockingly low salaries and for that they get to work in the most crime-ridden country on the planet. In order for the police to be proud of their work and position you have to pay well. The US and UK police are a good example. Paid well, respect the public and are respected by the public. If the government can pay criminals like Malema and Zuma well then why not pay the police well?
Benzo 12/5/2008 9:14:53 AM
Corruption is based on the cooperation between two parties: the ?corrupted? and the ?corruptor?. The corrupted is generally driven by greed and sometimes by fear (peer pressure). The corruptor is usually driven by the will to ?bend the rules? to obtain something that cannot (or not easily) be obtained within the rules of the system, be it an order or freedom or any other ?desirable?. The more it goes undetected and/or unpunished the more it becomes a way of life. Old colonial governments were notorious for their corrupt behavior. Misfits in rich families were often ?send? to the colonial paradise to manage their businesses. The way to wipe out corruption is by (1) education (the moral re-armament movement once led by Zuma springs to mind), (2) anonymous whistle blowing mechanisms for early detection, (3) immediate action upon suspicion and (4) relentless punishment on confirmation.
M 12/5/2008 9:15:10 AM
That doesn't work either. The likes of Tony Yengeni are proof of that. You can pay people lots of money and they will still be corrupt. Or what about the Travelgate scandal? Where those politicians really that poor? Find the right prison wardens/guards and pay those a good salary, that's the key, don't lower the standards and just take anyone that you can get.If you can't find them in SA, outsource.
morena 12/5/2008 9:15:55 AM
you so quick to open the hole in your face, yes corruption, crime needs to dealt with, my problem with is you guys are so quick to run your mouths about corruption like its a new thing and its because of the black gov, who was investigating your folks past years, were they not corrupt, were they not killers, ect you and your folks i fine ones to talk, after 1994 you all "suddenly" believe in equality and human rights
Stryker 12/5/2008 9:16:43 AM
Kolobe and others who argue that people steal because they are hungry, are seriously stupid, uninformed or downright blind. Are you telling me that the parliamentarians in the travelgate saga were hungry? was Zuma Hungry? Shake? Come on get real. They steal because they are greedy bastards period. cedb00`s point about why these idiots must also rape, torture and murder when stealing is a valid one - I would love to know how the Kolobe types explain this animalistic behaviour. Feel free to try
eBas 12/5/2008 9:19:46 AM
In the form of the death penalty, why would the hardened criminals be afraid of the law, nothing is going to happen, build the fear of death into them and the story will change.
Amazed 12/5/2008 9:20:55 AM
I will allways understand someone stealing a loaf of bread when they are starving, especially since the government spends tax payers money on huge salaries instead of providing for these starving people. What I will never understand is the brutality and downright sick mentality of SA Criminals. I would hate to sound racist but is rape, torture and killing a cultural throw back - Its just I dont see many so called ex europeans committing similar crimes - not even the poor ones.
Philani 12/5/2008 9:21:04 AM
by pointing fingers at the ANC, and Zuma, then its never gonna resolve, because defence systems are gonna be raised and fingers will be pointed back, remember when one finger point, the other three are pointing back at you. Its no good that criminals are escaping from jails, but stop fingering, and learn to engage people with respect, then things will shape. This is a good article by Richard, and well written, but people have spoilt it, by fingering at wrong people,Zuma for crying out loud.
Viparo 12/5/2008 9:22:43 AM
Every police man/woman knew what their salaries were going to be when they joined the police force. To now say that they aren't earning enough and that's why they're corrupt is ridiculous. If they didn't want to earn so little, they shouldn't have joined. No one forced them. Besides, a metro police officer that's just joined the force earns R8 760 a month. That's not bad. It's down to greed.
Observer 12/5/2008 9:23:38 AM
Yea right. That's why they ate my TV recently. People steal, because they can steal in a day what they cannot work for in a month.
KOOS 12/5/2008 9:24:35 AM
Funny that countries that never had no Apartheid and have been liberated for 50 years still suffer terrible corruption and crime. Apartheid or colonialism is not teh answer to every problem.
Russ 12/5/2008 9:30:25 AM
'One can argue that Apartheid is/was the biggest crime perpetuated by the state or anyone,but at least we all could sleep well at nights'. White SA DID sleep well under apartheid - in the meantime, black SA were being persecuted, shamed, marginalised and brutalised. And they still are. We are now reaping what white SA sowed for so many years. If you keep treating people like dirt, they will probably start acting as if they are. It is galling to see white SA pointing fingers now.
Nick 12/5/2008 9:30:28 AM
Release all petty criminals???? Are you stupid or what. Build more jails to house more criminals, that is what should be done. Petty crime is just the start of a Murderers apprticeship. It was the ANC goverment that let these murderers free. They should have been HUNG for their crimes. What have you got to say to the people who have been accosted, raped and murdered by Prisoners who "ESCAPED". SORRY is not good enough. Another Zimbabwe coming to you soon, thanks to the ANC.
Pieter 12/5/2008 9:30:40 AM
Apartheid is so easily put into the same category as the great world wars, the holocaust, the genocide of Aborigenes in Australia or the culling of native Americans by immigrants or the Spanish. No, apartheid was not mass extermination. Yes, mass oppression but that's hardly the same. The average SA citizen suffers the same oppresion due to the lack of good governance. The past is glorified. The future is ignored (Eskom). We revel in the glories of the struggle but we cannot Cope with reality.
AJ 12/5/2008 9:32:01 AM
The Laws must work, must work quick and must be SEEN to be working quick. There is no other solution. the vast majority of South Africans cannot be entrusted to police themselves.
Enough 12/5/2008 9:32:19 AM
Shot at the viewing sight at Gods Window - I guess this criminal was hungry hey Kolobe - I reckon you and the rest of your criminal brothers are from another planet.
L van Heerden 12/5/2008 9:33:51 AM
corruption exists in all spheres of life in this world and not limited to government institutions. It is indeed greed. Private companies have corrupt individuals that rob the very companies they work for, steal from their employers. Corruption has always been there under apartheid where cops were taught how to kill opponents of the system and lie about it. so, we do not have a great system to learn from. An entire war was declared in Iraq through lies and lies. Now Bush admits it
Max 12/5/2008 9:39:09 AM
I can't believe some people are actually coming up for the crims! The other day I saw international crime stats that showed SA has the second highest murder rate in the world! We were second only to Columbia. Even scarier, Iraq is in third place! Crims don't think twice about dishing out the death penalty. Why should we?
Thokozani 12/5/2008 9:40:13 AM
I agree with you Rich, greed seems to play a greater role on corruption. However in case of escaping prisnors, a point must be made, we talking kingpins here, people who have stolen a lot of money, with which when they are arrested give them a lap of luxury. Prison warders are still earning less, they then turn to be easly tempted when offered large sums of money for prisnors escapes. Agreed warders earn a salary, but does it shield them from being bribed? No, because it's too small.
M 12/5/2008 9:40:58 AM
I must agree with you on that one. Lots of people use that excuse to divert the attention away from the corruption and nepotism that was rife under the Nats.If you weren't voting for the right party &going to the right church,you could forget a promotion.But Richard is addressing another problem,so lets stick to this topic.
Stryker 12/5/2008 9:41:34 AM
Before you start on the aprtheid caused this brutal mayhem, how do you explain the millions of marginalised black people in this country who dont rape, murder, steal etc. If your argument holds true, all black people would be crazed killers who rape everything that moves. Quite clearly you like to generalise - There are many very decent black folk in this country who are unfortunately associated with brutality due to the prominent criminal minority being black. Catch a wake up!
Len van Heerden 12/5/2008 9:41:53 AM
You could sleep well at night, but not all Southern Africans could enjoy this peaceful sleep. If you have convinced yourself that under apartheid there was no crime and no strife, then perhaps you are more blind than you are willing to admit. for goodness sake, we had people who were desensitized that they saw nothing in having a meal while another human being was burning next to them. Is that preferable to you? Did you ever visit the townships when people were being killed by the state & crime?
Whyte Mann 12/5/2008 9:41:54 AM
You are, as expected, up to your usual drivel again. NO ONE needs to steel when they are hungry. They can ask for some food at any church or welfare organisation. And whilst I accept that many people do go hungry, the criminals you are lamenting about don't steal bread, my friend. They steal TV's and Hi-Fi's from our homes and that's why they (deservedly)have criminal records.
Stryker 12/5/2008 9:42:51 AM
Before you start on the aprtheid caused this brutal mayhem, how do you explain the millions of marginalised black people in this country who dont rape, murder, steal etc. If your argument holds true, all black people would be crazed killers who rape everything that moves. Quite clearly you like to generalise - There are many very decent black folk in this country who are unfortunately associated with brutality due to the prominent criminal minority being black. Catch a wake up!
rw 12/5/2008 9:44:04 AM
We have one problem in SA - we have become a "I have rights" culture (with little personal responsibility) and this paved the way for greed. I work in the governmwent and from about 1996 there was an escalation in misusing government items. It was said in several misconduct incidences that "I have the right to use....." or "I have the right to a big salary...." because the gov belongs to the people. The level of corruption in government - even by senior people is evident of this.
M 12/5/2008 9:45:07 AM
Valid point. But we need to find the right people for the right job.The ANC sent the wrong message when they didn't FIRE their corrupt officials that were caught stealing (that's what companies do, just FYI). That's my problem. They aren't the right people for the job. We need leaders that smother corruption&send a clear message,you live in SA, you adhere to its RULES. Finish and klaar.
Calvin Mkhize 12/5/2008 9:45:33 AM
One should be prudent in apportioning blame to a certain sectorial of the population. This plague of ascertaining and lynching racial stereotype that blacks are prone to corruption should cease immediately. It is superficial to state that blacks have a culture of entitlement. This tirade by your kind which is endemic in your society should be exterminated once and for all.
cos 12/5/2008 9:46:36 AM
Even under the apartheid government, the townships were not as dangerous. What whites did to blacks was unacceptable but at least the blacks respected each other and stood together. Now people I know who stay in townships lock themselves in at night and fear for their lives where before the could walk around, leave doors open and live in a area full of "community spirit" which we as whites did not have in those days. Now EVERYONE is a statistic waiting to happen!
Thembalabantubonke 12/5/2008 9:48:05 AM
America won the right to host the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, despite their bid not being the best. South Africa lost out to Germany due to actions of a New Zealander and it is a well known fact that if you want to win the Olympics or World Cup (hosting) you need to pay bribes to delegates from all over the world. It is hence b/s to claim that Africa alone is corrupt. It happens more openly here, but comes nowhere close to the sums exchanged in the Western world. They call it capitalism
Pieter 12/5/2008 9:49:56 AM
...and your point is? That corruption must now be tollerated because of Apartheid? Haha. That's exactly the point you don't seem to get you dimwit.
Ant 12/5/2008 9:50:46 AM
No one said the previous regime was a bunch of saints, they were as corrupt and bad, but we got rid of them because of that. Now the ANC is just as bad and parading under the " democracy " banner,which they don`t know the true meaning of but we are not allowed to critisize them. How many innocent people still have to die before the government does something about it.
M 12/5/2008 9:51:07 AM
True. But the Fidentia Boss is in the jail,Bush is gone soon (sadly not going behind bars,but show me one President that did) and Obama hopefully is going to get the US out of Iraq soon. But then we look at criminals in government and they are either free, or fighting a court case for years or whatever. What happened to Selebi?? Why are some people pardoned?Spot the HUGE difference?
cos 12/5/2008 9:51:53 AM
LOL :) - quite right! I know they are hungry as well because they ate my car
Russ 12/5/2008 9:55:03 AM
Check my previous post - the answer is there.
Pieter 12/5/2008 9:55:42 AM
Catch a wake up man. Do you think 50 years oppression really geve rise to corruption and greed? What if the white man never came to Africa. What are you then going to use as an excuse? It's very plain to me. The West brought bling via a system and the native African cannot cope with it culturally. Does my argument fly over your head? You're such a naive phillantropist. You should go work for the UN in Somalia and learn a few lessons in reality bru.
Filemon 12/5/2008 10:04:53 AM
Remember infogate? At least Eschel Roodie & Connie Mulder got punished. Unfortunately our new govt lets criminals (unless they are opposing political factions)get away corruption - travelgate etc. This example excuses the public servants to think corruption is ok. It also spreads to business corruption - Tiger, Premier etc with their cartels. Corruption now is not a legacy of apartheid. It is a reflection of government. The arms deal MUST be probed as an example to the country as a whole.
Rafiki 12/5/2008 10:05:59 AM
What are you saying? What is the relationship colonialism and crime? What is your point?
Kenroid 12/5/2008 10:07:28 AM
Chief...usually your comments make some sort of sense - so I am not sure if this is you! But if you honestly believe that a criminal should not have a record available to the public...then you have drastically changed my opinion of you! Perhaps a better idea is to have criminal reform programs that help criminals to find employ!!! And surely you would like to know if you are employing a murderer???
Don 12/5/2008 10:09:19 AM
One of the biggest problems I feel is that the punishment doesn't fit the crime in SA. How does locking someone in a cell make them repay their debt to society? Make them work in chain gangs from 8am to 5pm. That will get the criminals used to working for a living! No more free boarding & lodging while you learn better ways not to get caught. If they try to escape from a chain gang, shoot them, simple as that. If you've got 3 guilty verdicts against your name, you NEVER come out again!
Stryder 12/5/2008 10:09:55 AM
Please reread my post, I never claimed that AFrica is the only corrupt place, in fact I state that corruption occurs all over the world. I must say though that corruption in Africa is worse because it deprives people who are more needy than anywhere else in the world. Viva Africa Viva
hc 12/5/2008 10:10:29 AM
Why bother about crime if you have a vested interest. Ask our friends in high places. All about facts!!!! It amazes me how many of our friends on this forum seems to defend the criminals, makes you wonder!!.
LvH 12/5/2008 10:12:14 AM
According to the World Index of Perception of Corruption, Botswana, Mauritius and South Africa are less corrupt than all the Asian nations except Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia and Taiwan (Hong Kong and Maccau). SA is less corrupt than Italy, while Botswana is as corrupt as spain, portugal and france.5 countries in the Americas are less corrupt than SA. Americans perceive corruption in their country. Who got the oil deals in Iraq?
Stryker 12/5/2008 10:16:14 AM
The current ANC government, much like the past NP government, is useless, corrupt and treat people like dirt. Using your logic, very soon White folk, who are treated like dirt at present, will start believing they are dirt and start rampaging through the townships murdering and raping all and sundry - get real mate.
Sven Gohre 12/5/2008 10:16:26 AM
Richard, the worst of it is the fact that corruption is the main driver of poverty and non delivery. As long as the public servants believe that tey are entitled to the job that they hold and that one of the perks is the Grease that makes the machinary of bureaucracy turn over. Nigeria is a country that ignored petty corruption and it did not take long before the country was riddled with corruption. Millions of Dollars have been spent on electricity, but not 1MW has been added since Independance.
Thembalabantubonke 12/5/2008 10:18:39 AM
should be great examples to criminals that you can get away with murder
Pieter 12/5/2008 10:20:51 AM
Len my ou, where do you crawl out from? Seems to me you got a serious guilt trip over what happened in Apartheid. Were you an activist? Please throw me your credentials so I could take you more seriously. At least Mandela & co struggled. What did you do? Anyways, your 'desinsitized' comment made me laugh so loud. Is Psychology 101 now suddenly kicking in for you? Hey, you said I'm dirt so now I feel dirty and now I'm off to kill you for insulting me. Good argument... not!!! Hey, youre funny man..
L van Heerden 12/5/2008 10:21:17 AM
The boss of Tiger Brands is not in jail either. Several other CEOs ran companies that colluded with each other to fix prices. We have 4 big banks that are screwing people big time. If someone take you for R1million, we tend to see them as sophisticated, but when a cop takes you for R100 it is the end of the world. Big money corruption is with large conglomerates that control prices and cost you and the economy huge money while paying millions in salaries for the bosses
Geoff 12/5/2008 10:21:49 AM
No matter how clever or well thought out your argument is, corruption, lack of respect and low value to life are AFRICAN characteristics. Every country on this continent is a shambles because of these characteristics. It's these characteristics that the early settlers found in the original inhabitants of this continent, and these characteristics that spawned Apartheid. The settlers came from civilised societies and were suddenly confronted with violent and ignorent savagery. Nothings changed.
Thembalabantubonke 12/5/2008 10:24:38 AM
Agree that it deprives people who need it more, but if the west did not pay these bribes, would they really happen. Companies in the western world have war chests to pay bribes in the third world. also, if you look for sheer money exchanged, Africa is way behind the game. Not condoning it as it does deprive the very poor more, but let us stop claiming that Africans are more corrupt, because they are not based on the numbers of events and the amounts concerned
Thembalabantubonke 12/5/2008 10:29:34 AM
Not really sure where you got your information from, but it absolutely hogwash. to claim that things were not as bad in the townships is really wack. When did you think gangsterism took hold and who do you think encouraged it? Why did companies pay salaries into people's bank accounts? Having lived in townships from 1969 to 1991, I think you talk too much ignorant crap. Crime happened there and cops were not interested and people were murdered by the police and criminals
Dr.E 12/5/2008 10:30:28 AM
You must be one of the most narrow minded people in this forum,so much so that you dont even see what has been written,it gets twisted somewhere between your screen and your pip.Richards view is 100% correct,it is inexcusable that cops are releasing cop killers,this shows the level of comradery in our police force and it's zero,they are all thinking about themselfes.There is no dought that if an escaped criminal killed someone close to you you would think differently,or do you think at all?
L van Heerden 12/5/2008 10:33:11 AM
I doubt if the posters here are defending the criminals. It is simply the reaction to the perception that all crime and corruption is Africa and all good and peace if European and Western. We are quick to label ourselves the worst in the world without bothering with actual facts. Of course, this does not mean we should condone corruption and criminality. If we are the only country without, wonderful, but let us be realistic. Criticize but do not be blind.
Purviss 12/5/2008 10:36:25 AM
What are you trying to say man? You don't make sense or your use of words is atrocious. Are you busy with hate speech and propagating the extermination of the white race?
Sven Gohre 12/5/2008 10:39:19 AM
Len, I spent a lot of time in Meadowlands Zone 10 during the seventies and eighties, and I never felt as though I was going to be killed or robbed. The family that used to host me during those years will not allow me to visit now, because they say I will be killed in the Townships. Being White, it seems strange that I was safe when the commrades were targeting Whites, but in a Free SA, I am prevented from entering the Townships.
Stryker 12/5/2008 10:43:22 AM
You are right, Themba as should Zuma (that you can and will get away with Rape as long as you are an anc bigwig), the entire SA parliament (for travelgate fraud), Robert MaCbride and others for blowing up innocent people, jackie Selebi for goodness only knows what all - If you live in glass houses Themba, best you dont throw stones.
Piet van Tonder 12/5/2008 10:47:57 AM
To be honest, corruption resides every person and it has nothing to do with race. Therefore apartheid highlighted a pre existing problem of corruption within all of us (every race). So criminals escape because the police that watch them are also corrupt just like the criminals
Annatar 12/5/2008 11:04:19 AM
Oh for the death penalty!
Oom_Kosie 12/5/2008 11:12:55 AM
Thembalabantubonke - care to name a few ANC "freedom fighters" who also got away with murder? There are many. I would also like to THANK Calvin Mkhize for assuring us that the Angelic ANC will recapture the escaped criminals. (I thought it was the job of the police, but if Zuma and Mantashe want to join in, cool!) Now I can sleep safer in my bed. Thanks Calvin!
Kal-El 12/5/2008 11:17:05 AM
Kolobe, no matter what someone writes here, you ALWAYS oppose it. Irrespective of how insanely illogical your arguments are. You always seem to take sides with the corrupt or criminal and you always oppose the good. In Star Wars, you would have been from the Dark Side for sure. Tell me, who would you choose as a president from the following options?: Obama or Mugabe? Please answer. I am sure this type of question creates extreme internal conflict within you since Obama is part of the evil American imperialists and Mugabe is a liberator, freedom fighter, saint and above all an African. So who would you choose?
Don 12/5/2008 11:21:12 AM
One of the biggest problems I feel is that the punishment doesn't fit the crime in SA. How does locking someone in a cell make them repay their debt to society? Make them work in chain gangs from 8am to 5pm. That will get the criminals used to working for a living! No more free boarding & lodging while you learn better ways not to get caught. If they try to escape from a chain gang, shoot them, simple as that. If you've got 3 guilty verdicts against your name, you NEVER come out again!
Jhazzman 12/5/2008 11:39:55 AM
I remember my Father telling me stories of the so called "Good Old Days", when if you were a petty criminal and convicted you were marched off to The Police Station and given Six of the Best with a Sjambok ... That was a good enough deterent for me ... Criminals have it far too easy and cosy these days. FACT!
Francois 12/5/2008 11:45:57 AM
that corruption is more rife than ever before. Question is: What are we as LAW abiding South Africans willing to do to ensure that it does not eat our country away?
Jerry 12/5/2008 11:50:14 AM
Who benefits the most from crime in our country? Not the criminals, but Govt, so why slay the goose that lays the golden eggs? Example: in Gauteng 1 mil households makes use of armed response for protection @ R240.00 pm (ave)x 12 months x 14% VAT = R403 millon pa just from Gauteng. A thief steals a luxury cat valued at R500g's He gets between R10 and R30 g'sfor his effort. The insurance co replaces it and Govt gets R61 403.51 VAT. Just a thought.
J van Rensburg 12/5/2008 11:51:15 AM
The government?s choice to do nothing but talk about rampant corruption speaks volumes. If the high ranking party members can get away with corruption, why can't the common card carrying member not get away either? Equality at last!!!!
Buffalo Soldier 12/5/2008 11:52:24 AM
Should we start on a few ANC criminals that are examples of getting away with really bad crimes? What about Jackie Selebi (I wonder how many deaths he is responsible for), Robert Macbride, jacob Zuma (the president for gods sake)- ahh whats the point, put your blinkers back on and believe what you want. Take it from me - your heroes didnt look very heroic when I was over there.
Pangea 12/5/2008 11:57:03 AM
The fight against corruption starts at the top. The reason why Nigeria and India will never be great powers is because they intertain corruption and it eventually destroys a country from the inside. The question is can our leaders start the fight against corruption, No is the answer as they are tainted themselves.

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