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Bank charges report leaked

by
2009-01-06 07:50

Dear Editor,

Banks are up in arms over the leaking of the uncensored report of the Competition Commission over South Africa's exorbitant bank charges.

The Commission published a technical report on the investigation on its website, with large portions censored at the request of the banks. An uncensored version however became available on the Wikileaks website.

The report by the investigating panel, chaired by former judge Thabani Jali, found that the banks were colluding to stifle effective competition in the sector. Costs levied were exorbitant and not calculated on the basis of real expenses, reads the report.

My personal experience has been that some banks are dishonest about their charges, especially annual charges, and even do misleading advertisements over interest paid to investors. For example, they tout higher interest rates on unmoved investments while in actual fact that is compounded interest, interest on the interest earned in the previous month. In other words, it is owed to you for not moving the investment, not some kind of kindness from the bank.

I believe there is no confidential information in the public sector. The people should decide whether they want to know it all or not. Serves the banks right then, and everyone should go to Wikileaks and get the uncensored information.

Be angry, it's your right to be!

Pieter Joubert,
Pretoria

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Ginger 1/6/2009 8:04:47 AM
There are been quite a few articles on South Africa having the highest bank rates in the world - long before wikileaks - and as it happens to be true our banks have no room to complain. I think they have a serious cheek to charge for deposits - especially the extra they charge for cash deposits. Banks should be encouraging people to use them. If you leave a current bank account unused you don't get interest. Eventually the bank fees will eat your account away to nothing. It is disgusting.
The Dude 1/6/2009 8:19:07 AM
I may be wrong but isn't one of the reasons our banks are not being crippled by the current world financial crisis because they make the a large portion of there money from bank charges and not dodgy investments
Mr T 1/6/2009 8:19:12 AM
Hey great stuff..... I will sure as hell check every statement and complain about everything on it ..... now its the public`s turn to give them hell for the overcharging
Kaballas 1/6/2009 8:20:21 AM
We live in a supply and demand / open market-world. It is your right to choose your products & services that you want to pay for. If you think the banks overcharge then go open a "poskantoor boekie" or whatever. Imagine their were no banks in SA.... Where would you live and what would you drive?
Angry 1/6/2009 8:21:25 AM
Well that is just one things we are being overcharged for, take all our telecommunications companies, I have read a couple of places we have the highest rates in the world. It is sickening, but I don't see anybody doing anything about it. We have no were else to go for our banking needs.
Mike Hunt 1/6/2009 8:22:58 AM
also need to get their cut. Then the issue of politicians with corporate interests. Quite illuminating for instance that the commission avoids investigating companies where public service officials have large interests - eg telkom (aka helkom) as a classic example. Nonetheless Pieter you make a good point. Looking at trends wrt bank costs in other countries we are hugely over-charged merely so that shareholders and directors can receive fat dividends and salaries.
Filemon 1/6/2009 8:26:54 AM
on my current account although I have never been in overdraft. This is tantamount to theft.
Gadget geek 1/6/2009 8:30:07 AM
I think the competition comission is doing a great job exposing all these scams. My only question is how do we as the public benefit from their findings, they've fined the companies but to no benefit of our own. e.g Why not lower the bread prices or fine them with not being able to raise the prices for a set period.The bread price has been increased on the scammed price and the poor still suffer.so I say fine shmine we still won't see a difference.
Nyiko T 1/6/2009 8:31:32 AM
to switch banks. there is a very affordable bank available..Capitec..but when i tell my frends n family to switch to this one they feel that wil lower their standards even though they r struggling.e.g: i used to have the absa "gold" cheque account.after bounced debits i would get charged R100 for each.when i found out that with capitec u only get charged like R5 rand i cancelled immiediately!.there r many other charges that these "big" banks impose on us that they can't justify!
Calvin Mkhize 1/6/2009 8:32:00 AM
The solution to this problem is to nationalize the banking sector and major industries in our economy. The banking sector has formed a cartel in order to monopolise their exorbitant fees in pursuit of maximising profits at the expense of the disadvantaged. This is as a result of the evil system called capitalism which is solely focused on greed at the expense of the poor working class. The poor are being charged exorbitant fees for depositing their hard earned money which is simply exploitation.
malcolmx 1/6/2009 8:32:23 AM
I wouldn't mind paying the higher charges, if only all the customers had IQ test before accounts are opened & they had queues & banking machines for various ranges of IQ's. The doff idiots could sit for hours in their own line, with their personalised self created problems. Better still have a bank that caters for an above average IQ. Time is money.
clint 1/6/2009 8:32:33 AM
Obtained the report and have been reading through it. I do find it bad that some sections were censored from the public ( as it was in the interest of the public in any event ) and pretty damaging to Banks in SA. We are being ripped off left right and center. There is no doubt about that.
20 Something yr old white boy 1/6/2009 8:40:02 AM
We have known for years now that we in SA pay some of the highest bank fees in the world and Carte Blanche aired a piece a long time ago about how the banks are ripping us off, so why aren't they being charged and customers compensated? Banks are the biggest thieves and they rob you while looking you straight in your eyes with a smile on thier face. Peoples livelyhoods could improve if they dropped their charges, esp in this day and age they should be helping us, not castrating us!
Upset 1/6/2009 8:41:54 AM
Well a couple of years ago I had an account with ABSA, the bank charges was to high, so I moved all my debit orders and had my salary paid in into a FNB account, I tried to close the ABSA account but couldn't for some reason. A year later they sued me for R2000 in charges. I never used that account in a year and they want me to pay that amount.
Dawid 1/6/2009 8:44:19 AM
The NCA requires that the banks charge you for the overdraft. If you have never used it, close it, and save the R75 you pay to have it
yt1021 1/6/2009 8:44:55 AM
Just checked the wikileaks site & couldn't find the report - seems it was or blocked. However, the censored version does provide interesting insights - eg how we r ripped off when we draw cash from other banks. Ur bank still charges, even though they do buggerall in the transaction. That's theft in my book.
Piet Parra 1/6/2009 8:46:52 AM
By colluding the banks took away our choice of where to bank. We have no other choice than doing business with them. And because of us not having a choice they rip us off. Each and every one of us. Dont be an idiot, a "Poskantoorboekie" does not fulfill my banking needs, so I am forced to make use of the banks, and I dont appreciate being ripped off like I have been for the last decade or so. I am all for "Name and Shame" as far as these cheaters are concerned. Don't cover up, let it out...
Willem 1/6/2009 8:49:01 AM
The bible said from the poor will be taken to give for the rich. Why asking extreme amounts when these people go in overdraft? Bank protection? Do it differently. The bible also says these rich people will be punished. Read your bibles and decide where you want to be. I despise banks as they get stinking rich with our money. Most processes are computerized why charge so much if this sector is not labour intensive? Computers does not cost that much anymore and the consulting expenses are crazy. Quit SAP as it is resource expensive and consulting expensive. Many ways to kill a cat if you look.
KOBUS 1/6/2009 8:50:56 AM
I see someone has mentioned Capitec already, which is good. Very good bank to use if you don't need all the frills and bells and whistles the other banks MAKE you take. They even give you proper interest on a current account, something none of the others do. The banks are up in arms over the leaking of the report, but the consumers just have to keep on paying. Nice one, Absa, Nedbank, Standard Bank and FNB!
KOBUS 1/6/2009 8:53:34 AM
Calvin Mkhize, you are such a little Political Science 101 jack-in-the-box! I'd rather have a private bank cartel before I'd let the geniuses in our government administrate my money! The poor are not forced to do anything, they have freakin Mzanzi-accounts that are not expensive!
Big R 1/6/2009 8:53:45 AM
You can ask them to remove the overdraft facility then you stop paying for it. Standard Bank is the worst when it comes to hidden costs!!
Stan 1/6/2009 8:54:07 AM
it's EXTORTIONIST!
Jabu Pule 1/6/2009 8:54:13 AM
They have stolen our land, raw materials and now money. Food price fixing, jobs and business to themselves. When does it end? Who will end it? They are already stealing from the under-priviledged, greed and merciless, when does it end? Who will end it? I give up on the prayers..... Just a thought.
Willem 1/6/2009 8:54:51 AM
17 families together build our own bank safe. We only invest in commodities like gold diamonds wine etc. No more bank charges and we are making a fortune. Banks stink and steal your money for doing what? However we still have to use banks to pay but we buy immidiatly and let our money work for us and not the bank. Use to have millions in the bank lately sometimes no money in bank, but we are better off. Start a peoples bank.
katman 1/6/2009 8:56:59 AM
...you sound like a candidate for the doff queue.
John Camp 1/6/2009 8:59:02 AM
but a certain bank, no names mentioned (SB) are now going to charge 1.03% of the cash amount that you deposit into your home bond. Hey, will we ever win? If you are naughty we are punished, if we attempt to reduce the bank's risk buy depositing additional funds into our bonds... we're punished!
Mike Hunt 1/6/2009 9:00:27 AM
No Calvin that's not the answer. We have seen the fiasco of how parastatals such as Eskom and SAA and managed, so don't go there. What we need is TRANSPARENCY so that consumers can make clear and informed decisions - consumers should not have to hunt in fineprint that is disguised in legalese. Monopalistic or fixing trends should also be severely dealt with.
Ukhandampondo 1/6/2009 9:02:27 AM
We have been moaning and moaning and still nothing happens. We dont need some kind of a stupid report to inform that we are being crooked, the writing has always been on the wall. Until some educated idiot with powers like Manuel or whoever can do something or just say something maybe one might feel a bit better. It's very sad that people can help themselves with our hard earned money and we just stare helplessly. I pay a service fee of over R200 every month yet they charge me when I withdraw.
Andrew 1/6/2009 9:02:33 AM
The best way to get the message through that we are fed up with high charges is to collapse one bank as an example to the rest. We should organise a vote as to which bank it should be, then everyone closes their accounts at that bank. That should scare the s%*t out of the others and prompt some action.
Evert 1/6/2009 9:04:11 AM
HAHA. Ag shame. Poor banks.
Kaballas 1/6/2009 9:06:21 AM
You have lots of choices. The only product you probably must have at a large bank is a cheque account. Most vehicle manufacturers have in house financing. You can also use bond originators for your homeloan etc. Like I said.... it is an open market. Use the bank or dont use it.... but stop complaining. With a name like Piet Parra I wouldnt be surprised if you do have a poskantoorboekie - or maybe you should rather go to small cash loans and see what they charge you..... idiot
The Elusive Leprechaun 1/6/2009 9:06:41 AM
I doubt that there are any other "legally" operated businesses that extorts its clients as much as banks do. In fact, I doubt that most criminals are more dishonest than banks are. We do these banks a favour by banking with them, and this is the thanks we get.
20 Something yr old white boy 1/6/2009 9:08:41 AM
I think we all hated the NCA when it came into effect in 2007, what a mission it was to get credit, and alot of time the credit was refused. I think that was the main reason that saved SA when the banks overseas are now suffering, however, we should be given more leniency with bank charges given the current cost of living, the banks are ripping us off blind and and we must be grateful for it???
The Prophet 1/6/2009 9:11:22 AM
Banking is one, now how about telecommunication (Broadband, mobile-networks, landlines). We are being ripped-off left, right and center.
Yimmit 1/6/2009 9:15:13 AM
I would be interested to know how ATM bombings, cash heists, bank robberies and fraud affect the bank charges in SA compared to international banking institutions, where these crimes may be less relevant to banking costs.
Pieter Joubert 1/6/2009 9:18:35 AM
"It is your right to choose your products & services that you want to pay for" Exactly that is how I realised they lie, because I was trying to determine exactly what my costs are in a year so that I can compare. Try to get the exact figure and check it to your statement! Free market depends on the role-players having the information. Filemon, I left my old bank because of that overdraft charge. Not only is there a fee, they charge you for annual investigation of your credit-worthiness. Get out!
Amazed 1/6/2009 9:18:37 AM
SA Banks have given customers same day value on funds for a transaction fee, something consumers seem to resist. We should go back to the British/European way and not charge a fee for the transaction, but let the banks have the "Float" for 3-5 days. That way it's less transparent, consumers wait longer for their funds, but the consumer will be appeased. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.....
gentlemanjim 1/6/2009 9:19:37 AM
are you telling me that 99% of people using banks did not know that they were getting ripped off???? use them or don't, but if you do use banks shop around for the best deals. If you don't that is your own stupidity. Now what about financial institutions that have some really scary debt practices - that is where you see "legalised theft and debt slavery"
steve 1/6/2009 9:19:57 AM
wake up sunshine !we all need banks in order to conduct business ,all we want is fair banking costs ,our big three are ripping us off we know it , they know it ,and now wiki leaks knows it .and now the banks are upset because theyve been caught ,hell its criminal and immoral instead of saying sorry and rectifying the costs they become angered as they want to continue doing us in, ka BALLAS if your content filling there pockets dont expect rational people to .druk jou p.kantoor boekie in jou *at
morena 1/6/2009 9:19:59 AM
don't be a moron we not complaining about the banks charging us for services, the complaint is about banks overchanging customers and making huge profits from that
anon 1/6/2009 9:20:22 AM
if you read the report you'd understand that the big four effectively own the Payment system in SA, which your "poskantoor bokie" uses to process the transaction. thus either way, banking in SA in dependent of the payment system owned by the big 4.
captain ubuntu 1/6/2009 9:21:08 AM
it's about time the public found out about how our banks are ripping us off. it's kind of common sense that our banks are pocketing it like mad when ABSA generates the majority of Barclays' profits...remember...that's after converting all the money back to pounds...like with Vodacom and MTN, we've been having it!
morena 1/6/2009 9:26:27 AM
malcolmx i think you IQ should be the one in question here, i know what you mean "you standing for while at an atm queue beacause someone in front doesn't know how to use the ATM and you actualy find an relation between IQ and someone who doesn't know how to use an ATM, you very smart neehhh
Big Bad Bob 1/6/2009 9:28:47 AM
(1) The banks have a right to make a profit. Their shareholders might even say they have a duty to do so. (2) We need to be careful about getting them to cut costs too much - cheap banking (with all that goes with it) was a big factor in the melt down of the UK financial sector.
Big Bad Bob 1/6/2009 9:30:21 AM
When you go into a branch and deal with a teller then the process is no entirely computerized. I can't speak about all banks, but the bank I deal with (Standard) charges less for ATM transactions than transactions at a counter, and even less for transactions done via internet banking.
Paul Maarman 1/6/2009 9:33:25 AM
You pay to depositing your money, you get charged for withdrawing your money. You get charged for checking your balances.The money that banks make out of this way of doing business brings in a nice set of returns at the of the day. Wonder how much this contributes to the profits that banks make year on year.The South African consumer gets raped royally.Look at our telecoms chargers.I mean what the hell?It is cheaper to call Namibia during peak then calling a cell in South Africa....
Badger 1/6/2009 9:36:21 AM
It's a KNOWN FACT that SA has the highest bank charges in the World. What you going to do ????? Put your money under your mat-rass ????? The banks just laugh at us and say pay. There is NOTHING you can do about it !!!!!!!
Slanesh 1/6/2009 9:36:33 AM
phone them and state your case as I did, if enough of us do this they will be forced to listen or start losing clients. We love to complain but few of us do anything other than complain.
Rynette 1/6/2009 9:37:10 AM
No-one wins this argument. They are a cartel and richer than me and you the ordinary suffering South African. And of course we have to have a bank account. They've been stealing from us for years and years.
Juan 1/6/2009 9:37:28 AM
I used to be against ATM bombings, but it seems that this is the ONLY way to avoid bank charges at an ATM! usually no one (but the banks) are hurt! GO GUYS!!
Big Bad Bob 1/6/2009 9:38:38 AM
That the banks co-operate with the commission but asked that certain information that they provided be kept confidential? This might not be to keep it from the public, but to keep it from other banks. If they are trying to justify their costs then why should they want other banks to see their costing model? A request of this nature is not unreasonable, and does not imply lack of co-operation with the commission.
Francois Roux 1/6/2009 9:40:58 AM
... just like we always knew. One doesn't even have to read the whole thing, simply look for the blue bits, and read a paragraph before and after it, and you'll see exactly why they wanted all that edited out. I ask the question, what was the point of the investigation in the first place if eventually the banks could simply ask for some of the report to be blanked out? Thanks to Pieter for pointing this report out, and WikiLeaks for unscrambling and providing it!!!
Louis 1/6/2009 9:41:24 AM
http://wikileaks.se/leak/uncensored-competition-commission-report-on-banking.pdf Here is the link directly to the pdf. The irony is that most of you complaining have retirement funds that invest in these same banks/oil companie/ pharma etc you complain about. But you will commplain if your fund does not do well. It cuts both ways in an integrated economy.
Pieter Joubert 1/6/2009 9:42:45 AM
It took me months to properly establish my annual costs @ my old bank. According to my calculations my annual cost @ my new bank is less than 25% of that. I do, however, use a current acount with electronic banking in stead of a cheque book now & I keep a healthy balance because this bank gives me a proper interest rate on the balance + other benefits. According to the information provided by the banks themselves my annual total cost should have remained the same. One bank was lying about 75%!
M 1/6/2009 9:43:46 AM
Until some other profession charges you exorbitant prices for something you see as a necessity. Why not charge R100 for a loaf of bread, the demand is quite high isn't it? You argument is ridiculous, you obviously work for a bank. I wonder where the competition commission is when it comes to banks and cellular providers. We are being ripped off&the service at banks is pathetic.
Fred 1/6/2009 9:44:16 AM
Charges are unbelievable and service stinks. No responsibility is taken at branch level any more because everything is centralised, so there is no longer anything called personal service. Their advertising should be pulled because most of it is blantant lies, and it's time that, because they operate as a cartel and we have no option but to use them, they should be forced to reduce fees to correspond with their poor service.
cy 1/6/2009 9:44:26 AM
http://wikileaks.org/leak/uncensored-competition-commission-report-on-banking.pdf
CTheB 1/6/2009 9:46:12 AM
The banks are not in the public sector. They're at least partially publicly owned, but that's not the same thing. They have every right to confidential information. Nevertheless, I think it's good that the information is actually available since it takes away some of the lies the banks have been spinning (by the way, you can find it here: http://wikileaks.org/leak/uncensored-competition-commission-report-on-banking.pdf). @Nyiko - I considered trying Capitec, but a friend of mine tried it and said it wasn't worth the switch, that it just made her banking life a whole lot harder without enough benefit.
Pieter Joubert 1/6/2009 9:47:02 AM
It is more like R140 for the facility plus R190 for the annual investigation. Like Filemon, I want an overdraft facility because you don't always know what your balance is to the cent (because of surprise charges for example) and just want to be sure payments don't bounce because then it costs you a fortune. If the NCA requires charges on an unused facility then they're wrong. Let's tackle the NCA too.
M 1/6/2009 9:49:58 AM
Yes, you are partly correct, they are a cartel and need to be dealt with by the Comp Commission. However there is one person more stupid than a bank official, that's a government official. At least they can read and write. If the govt took over I would have to constantly fight with them because they filled in the forms incorrectly.
Pieter Joubert 1/6/2009 9:50:53 AM
Update your acrobat and click on the pdf file link.
Rynette 1/6/2009 9:53:25 AM
How can they justify their charges? That's why they can afford to advertize and be sponsors because we the poor give to the rich.
Michael 1/6/2009 9:56:47 AM
South African Banks are colluding to stifle effective competition???????????????? Say it isn't so!!!! We've all known it, I don't think anybody really thought our banks were on the level, even with their putrid ads, today, tomorrow, together, Give me more of your money, how can we screw you?, Inspired, motivated, involved in stealing your money..... It's just nice that someone put it out in the open.
Tsotsi 1/6/2009 9:56:54 AM
Should be regulated!!
M 1/6/2009 9:57:49 AM
Why on earth do I want a cheque account (does anyone still use paper to pay for stuff, its 2009 not 1950)??? Huh? Its like asking for a fax, technology that has been almost redundant. Plus no cheque account pays interest on the money in the account. Oh yeah, those are great options.And do you even know how to spell "open market"?? Ever heard of price fixing??
Big Bad Bob 1/6/2009 9:59:09 AM
(1) The words "collude" and "collusion" do not appear in that report. In fact the report suggests that banks are individually guilty of obfuscation rather than conspiring to fix prices. (2) Banking is NOT a public sector activity (though if Calvin has it's way it may be)
Fred 1/6/2009 10:01:06 AM
Did you know that the BIG-4 own the Banks' Cleaing House, meaning that their business is transacted first, and other banks afterwards IF THERE IS CAPACITY. Hence it's pointless dealing with the smaller banks if you want your effects cleared quickly. Can you imagine the interset the banks make on your cheque deposits during the 10-day clearing period? Monopoly, anyone?
ziona 1/6/2009 10:04:19 AM
why doesnt everyone just accept that everyone in this country except the poor are out to get rich off everyone elses missery. In Germany the banks even give you a discount if you do internet banking - they dont have to pay extra staff to work then so they have less expenses.
josy 1/6/2009 10:04:23 AM
i remember MR BLADE NDZIMANDE once suggested that there be a national bank run by the Goverment but people are mum and that is the only solution becouse the little sharks who does not eat up men will be eaten by the big sharks then men will be indangered again in charges.
VG 1/6/2009 10:05:48 AM
A few things to keep in mind : 1 we have a very sophisticated banking system which I for one appreciate for the convenience it offers.2. The only way to permanently lower prices is to introduce more competition, However, the collapse of overseas banks serves as a warning against this ? rather have a few well capitalised banks than a profusion of small ones. 3. You don?t have to have a bank account ? however if you choose to make use of their services (security, convenience etc), pay for it!
Shaka 1/6/2009 10:09:19 AM
Banks borrow money from the Reserve bank at a known bank lending rate.Commercial banks pile on an additional 3% to get a prime rate.The 3% premium is enough to cover overheads and still make normal profits. Why so..? Banks borrow,store and on-lend money (a non-perishable good! ). As long as they keep the 'stock' safe,secure and keep roling it, they make loads of "easy money". Prime-plus is an ingeneous invention between banks an insurance companies disguised as legalised fraud...!!!
Hilton 1/6/2009 10:09:42 AM
The ugly truth is that there is nothing we can do about it. We need the bank more than the bank need us
Rynette 1/6/2009 10:13:11 AM
Just had a good laugh at your descriptive narrative. Wonderful! You said it all! and more and I am 100% in agreement.
Duzi 1/6/2009 10:14:21 AM
Just curious... who is this so called "minority" that you are referring to...?
Steph 1/6/2009 10:17:53 AM
Sounds like you work for one of these banks.
KOBUS 1/6/2009 10:18:35 AM
Jabu Pule, have you checked to see who actually owns the companies that you are complaining about? Have you checked who actually owns the land these days? White people still own much land, but it's getting less and less by the day. With respect to the companies, black people and the government own more than half of the JSE. Have you looked at the directors of the banks? For some of them, the majority is black, and others have substantial black presence. Your OWN PEOPLE are ripping you and ME off
Paul 1/6/2009 10:18:54 AM
I find it quite humourous that people choose to dwell on bank charges when banks only have a 50ish% cost to income ratio, and these same people are perfectly happy buying clothing from SA retailers who have 400% markup on cost (and I'm not talking about the really upmarket retailers, just the Edgars, Foschinis etc.)
Basil Skanetty 1/6/2009 10:20:48 AM
http://wikileaks.org/leak/uncensored-competition-commission-report-on-banking.pdf is the correct link
KOBUS 1/6/2009 10:22:12 AM
I think Kaballas and Big Bad Bob work for one of the Big Four banks...
Pieter Joubert 1/6/2009 10:23:03 AM
"The banks are not in the public sector". We don't want confidential bank information, we want the Commission's report (why should the Commission have to promise secrecy to get access??) and we want honest & complete information from our banks. The CC is public sector. Once the CC found cause for investigation it became a public matter. Once the CC confirmed that banks are obfuscating the information for devious purposes, we had the right to get it elsewhere for the free market system to work!
KOBUS 1/6/2009 10:24:20 AM
Capitec does pay interest (I think it's 11% or more at the moment) on current accounts. I think Nedbank has one where you get something like 3.5% as well.
Big Bad Bob 1/6/2009 10:29:47 AM
Are you sure that's the case? Some years ago I wrote some software for a small company wishing to act as an ACB bureau, and for a while we monitored transactions. There were different levels of service (5-day, 24 hours etc) at different prices, and we ALWAYS got the turnaround time we requested. Remember that ACB processes transactions on magnetic tape, not physical cheques. In the case of a cheque the transaction has to be captured into a computer system first.
M 1/6/2009 10:33:35 AM
How we ever know if they colluded? Do you think they keep minutes of meetings when they fix bank charges? They do it informally, like over lunch.
Big Bad Bob 1/6/2009 10:33:50 AM
I don't. Is there a specific comment that you are concerned about? Saying, for example, that banking is NOT public sector or that the report in question makes no mention of collusion is just stating the truth, it doesn't imply bias.
Tinus 1/6/2009 10:35:30 AM
What is this rip-off policy of the Four Bank Brotherhood by charging up to 1.4 % on cash deposits? Are we the only Country in the world doing separate cash billing? My friend has small trade store doing cash business, he nets 5% profit, what arrogance of the banks to take 30% of his nett profit for so called cash handling fees? That is absurd and at the end of the day the poorest bear the brunt of this fee because they don't pay with credit cards or bank transfers. YOU FOUR MONOPOLIZED BANKS SUCK BIG TIME!!!
Steph 1/6/2009 10:36:55 AM
I beg to differ. If you are employed... you have to have a bank account for your employer to pay you. There is no way of getting out of having one.
Johannes van Rensburg 1/6/2009 10:37:23 AM
Hey, somebody has to sponsor all these great sporting events. You can bet it's not costing the banks any money. It's the normal guy on the average salary that?s footing the bill.
Pissed Off 1/6/2009 10:42:52 AM
EMP the whole bloody lot of them. We as South Africans are getting ripped off left, right and center. We bitch and moan about every thing yet we do nothing. If you want to change something DO something about it. Make them feel it in their pockets...
Derek 1/6/2009 10:44:41 AM
I must agree that the Competition Commission is doing a fantastic job at exposing these downright criminal practices of corporations. However, I don't believe the punishment fits the crime - it may sound like huge fines but to these corporations, it is a knock and risk they are prepared to take. My feeling is that a proper deterrent would be for any executive members who colluded in the decisions should serve a mandatory jail term - does not have to be too long - 6 months should be sufficient.
Sivuyile 1/6/2009 10:45:02 AM
Borrow R10000 from a Bank - you pay btw 20-30% interest. Save R10000 with a Bank - you earn btw 1-5% interest......Lord have mercy, father help us all !!!
Pieter Joubert 1/6/2009 10:45:41 AM
Apart from this gem, it reports admirably on the Protection of Information Bill and on Eskom. Don't be fooled by the 'retraction' of the Bill, it has only been postponed to January 2009, as you can see following those links.
Thabo X 1/6/2009 10:48:17 AM
Bank charges in this country is daylight robbery. The way to fix it is to make the banks abide to the law. If you want to live in a communist country, why dont you move to North Korea, Cuba or China, where you have no rights, no money, no freedom and get executed for small crimes. If you have access to news24, you are already better of than most of them. plz just try, just try to think before you type.
Upset 1/6/2009 10:49:34 AM
You wanna do something about the Banking moguls. EMP all the banking departments in this country. We as South africans are getting ripped off at every bloody turn. Its about time we did something about it. And the only way is for the banking moguls to feel it it their pockets.... There is no point bitching and moaning if you do nothing :~(
Fred 1/6/2009 10:50:14 AM
Hey, Big Bad Bob, are you a shareholder in one or more of the banks? It sure sounds like it the way you defend their cause. Their charges just stem from the greed that is so prevalent in South Africa. Easy money when the options are pulled out from under our feet. I am an ex-banker so I think I have a better idea of what is happening than most.
Andy 1/6/2009 10:53:01 AM
I am ABSA client, have been for 20 years. They charge me R5 when I transfer money online between my own accounts, R1 to draw a statement. My internet bank fees amount to about R350 per month. Then I get the odd Admin charge for R20 on my statement, which I have no idea what its for. This is nothing but theft. And if you go look closely, the reserve bank (goverment) owns part of the switching company, and they get a cut. Nice one ANC.
John Camp 1/6/2009 10:57:28 AM
come on, we all know Jabu is referring to the ANC. ;-)
KOBUS 1/6/2009 10:57:34 AM
Sivuyile, what you are saying isn't true. You can accuse banks of many things, but you get more than 1%-5% interest on a fixed (or notice) deposit of R10000. It's more like about 8.5% to 11.5%. Interest differentials between deposits and loans should be there, that's how PROPER banks in foreign countries make money. Most types of banking charges are not only highest in SA, but are found ONLY in SA! Tell an Australian or Europeans about getting charged for a debit card purchase and he'll laugh!
Steph 1/6/2009 11:11:30 AM
Well you don't seem very bothered by throwing away your hard earned money.
Big Bad Bob 1/6/2009 11:18:14 AM
My point is that it contrary to Pieter's post there is no finding that banks colluded. Innoncent until proven guilty and all that. What is more you probably wouldn't find records of a conversation that took place on a golf course, but you would find instructions issued at board level in various banks around the same time.
Peter 1/6/2009 11:19:43 AM
The basic reason for the high fees charged by South African banks is that they need to do so to survive. SA banking systems are poor, few have efficient business processes, most rely on vendors, service providers and third-parties. The only reason banks provide any form of service is because of the staff they employ and the individual staff member's effort to help you. SA banking executives need a wake up call. Maybe the fallout from the global credit crunch will be the catalyst - maybe!
KAC 1/6/2009 11:21:26 AM
There is no way to survive in SA without a bank account. It is compulsory that companies and even SARS will only payout into a bank account. If you need credit or open a cell phone contract you need an account. With the introduction of FICA which is also compulsory the government knows about everyone?s financial business. Big brother have been monitoring us for a while now. It is totally ridicules that banks are allowed to continue to rip us off.
Tess 1/6/2009 11:21:40 AM
"When we draw cash from other banks, Ur bank still charges, even though they do buggerall in the transaction. That's theft in my book." - Clearly you have no idea of how banking works - the other bank actually first asks your bank whether you have the money available and then "recovers" the money from your bank - its stil your bank providing the money!
AndyMo 1/6/2009 11:35:05 AM
You're mistaken, we don't live in an open market (free market) world - we haven't done so since before WWII (read up on Libertarianism). Government legislates absolutely everything, for eg. do you know it is illegal for me to transfer data over network cable to my neighbour over our fence? Do you know how hard it is to open a new countrywide bank? Mounds of legislation, red tape and collusion by the big 3 and govt prevent any newcomers. Its a monoply sanctioned by govt.
La Coste 1/6/2009 11:48:17 AM
There is a joke that the bombers are trying to get their (bank charges) money back. May be it is not a joke; it is foreal.
M 1/6/2009 11:53:31 AM
I still think they checked out each others prices and then established their own. Think about it, if bank A asks say R50 to deposit R1000 then why would bank B ask R10 especially if they all have established clients? Same with Vodacom/MTN. The banks also know that its hard to change banks, moving all those debit orders, etc, its just not convenient, especially if the next bank offers you not much more.
Margaret 1/6/2009 12:09:15 PM
So what if Stranded Blank charges for CASH deposits into your bond. Ever heard of internet banking or EFTs.
Big Bad Bob 1/6/2009 12:09:16 PM
I'm sure you have the facts here. They won't change if I'm a shareholder (I'm not) or an employee (I'm not). So please share them with us... as usual if you can point out where I'm wrong I'll acknowledge.
Big Bad Bob 1/6/2009 12:11:47 PM
This is the big problem with me. I bank with Standard. I get fed up with the fees and call their customer hotline. They tell me that all I have to do is ask for such-and-such an option and my fees will drop. No catch, no cost. Except they don't advertise that option, you don't know it exists, so you're not going to call them and ask to take it. They should be more up-front. more clear. Which is basically what the report is saying.
Big Bad Bob 1/6/2009 12:16:56 PM
Point taken. Sort of. I'm not sure if the commission falls within "public sector" and there must necessarily be some confidentiality in that sector anyway. If the banks voluntarily gave information but asked that it not be divulged outside of the commission then that's reasonable - their financial models are theres and revealing them could advantage a competitor.
Kaballas 1/6/2009 12:17:11 PM
M, a cheque account is not meant only to write out cheques - I dont even have a cheque book.... Its main function is for monthly debit orders you idiot. Everyone needs a cheque account or do you pay your monthly water + lights, gym fees, insurance etc all with cash that you have drawn from your poskantoor boekie?? The banks have to make their money somehow now that the bad debt has picked up and the interest rates are high - people borrow less. Non interest income my friends..
VG 1/6/2009 12:20:08 PM
I take your points, but what I was trying to say is that you need not necessarily transact from the account.You have the option to open a Capitec account for example (R32 pm I think) or withdraw all your money and use cash. the reason people don't is mainly for security. Nevertheless, its still a choice you as the consumer makes.
Kaballas 1/6/2009 12:22:16 PM
Andy Andy Andy........ Iis called Oligopoly, not Monopoly. Monopoly = one like TELKOM, ESKOM. Oligopoly = a few (2-5) like BANKS, CELLPHONE CO's and so on. Now that we have that out of the way. The legislation is called NCA and it is actually there to protect you if you havent notced. Do you realize that for every R1 writeen off by a Bank, they have too borrow out R30 for an entire year too make up for it. T B Continued
VG 1/6/2009 12:22:37 PM
People like to complain, but how many of you have switched to the Old Mutual R85 account? or swopped your gold card for a Capitec one? or make use of the PnP/Nedbank GO Banking option? According to the figures, very few...so if consumers aren't going to be proactive...THATS why Europeans/Americans get better service in their countries.less whine more action!
Kaballas 1/6/2009 12:25:07 PM
A few thousand cars and houses are taken back every month and the bank normally takes a 20% - 40% knock on these. As the interest rates are high and less lending is taking place they have too make up for it elsewhere. Or do you want the same as the overseas banks for SA? At least now that you are aware of some of the costs maybe we can streamline it. For instance use internet banking because that is cheaper then drawing money and paying someone cash...
KOBUS 1/6/2009 1:03:00 PM
If you look closely, you'll realise that the SA Reserve Bank is a private company (as in, Pty. Ltd.) and is not part of the government. You can accuse the ANC of many things, but making money out of bank charges by co-owning the switching system is not one of them. Let me state again, the SARB is NOT part of the government. It's one of the main rules of economics: Have an independent central bank.
Louis 1/6/2009 1:15:44 PM
You must be charged for unsused facility because the bank has to make provision for it, i.e. keep some money back just in case. In other words they can not extend a facility to someone else who might actually use it where the bank can earn interest. Liquidity is a commodity with a price linked to the prime rate, risk and time and you pay for having access to liquidity (credit)if you do not have cash in your account. NB to distinguish between bank charges (transactions/products) and facility fees
M 1/6/2009 1:19:06 PM
Uhm, nope.I don't have a cheque account and I can pay all my accounts. I either use the internet/ATM/cellphone, sorry, no poskantoor boekie & no cheque account. But please feel free to make an idiot of yourself on this forum. Pimp your cheque account all you like, we all know which bank you work for.Oh and I don't have bad debt either,in fact if it wasn't for people like me (ample money in your crummy bank), the banks would have gone under LONG time ago, i.e. u could sweep the streets.
John Camp 1/6/2009 2:18:46 PM
I love the "Stranded Blank" bit except the charge is regardless of how it is made. Cash deposit is a cash deposit whether we do it in the bank or on our stoep whilst having sundowners. ;-)
Filemon 1/6/2009 2:50:43 PM
Thanks for the explanaition about facility vs service. But isn't the Reserve Bank there to provide the additional liquidity? My bank doesn't pay me a "facility" fee for my positive bank balance that they can use as liquidity for someone else who goes into overdraft and gets charged a facility fee.

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