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The truthof reconcilliation
18/07/2007 11:42
When is it the ANC/SACP turn for above? - len |
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Well said............
18/07/2007 11:42
Well said - speed |
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what a mess....
18/07/2007 11:43
Once again, such high crime rates, unemployment rates and levels of poverty blamed on the "crimes of the past (Apartheid) get over it!
WHY is Mc Bride not still in jail - I lost family to a bomb he planted - he should be serving Life in Prison. - durbanite |
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Maintain Balance!
18/07/2007 11:54
Prosecute Apartheid-crime criminals like Vlok. No problem, BUT
maintain a balance. Prosecute affirmative-action (new apartheid) criminals too!
How about dragging Charles Ngacula to court for murder? He ALSO
indirectly killed a LOT of South Africans through his inaction on crime.
He is STILL murdering people today!
You HAVE to have some balance here. - Juan |
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so true...
18/07/2007 11:54
Apartheid was a little before my time. But,lets get all apartheid era criminals behind bars. Everyone that commited any crime that took a life. Like Mcbride, Sexwale, Winnie. The families of the victims also want them behind bars for life. But they are in powerfull positions now. NOW YOU KNOW WHY SA CITIZENS THINK CRIME PAYS!!!
Forgiveness has to be from both sides... - marcov |
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Fair is fair
18/07/2007 11:56
That's great - are we going to charge Comrade McBride for his bombings then too? - Johnnie |
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VLOK
18/07/2007 11:58
During apartheid Vlok oppressed the black masses with zest. Then he was part of a team that negotiated the NEW South-Africa. Now Afrikaners and Whites are oppressed with Affirmative action and other racist laws. Procecute him i say ! and when you are done the Afrikaner will procecute him for giving us a NEW South africa with a murder every 2 hours a rape every 10 minutes - the NEW South Africa is a National Party lie - kortbroek, FW, Meyer will be next.. - Dannie |
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TRC
18/07/2007 12:00
Where is Magnus Malan? - The O' JAYS |
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When?
18/07/2007 12:01
When will South Africa look to the future and forget the past? Sure, lock the crimmies who did others an injustice up and throw away the keys, but we will forever look back to into the past - mostly because of the insecurity of some.
Move on for once. You owe it to your country. - A |
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Reconciliation
18/07/2007 12:03
To take up your last sentence....if locking up the apartheid baddies in small, dark cells will eradicate crime,unemployment and poverty, hell' let's do it! The baddies will have good company in jail -Messrs McBride and co should also be there. Or do we only lock the one side up? - jonno |
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living in the past
18/07/2007 12:04
thats why Africa is in the position it is in. its always living in the past. yes you were done a disservice by the colonialists, yes it was wrong, yes yes yes! but what now are you gonna spend the next 50 years whining about it looking for a hand out or are you going to rise above it and show everyone what you're made of. one question; when winnie Mandela was convicted in connection of the murder of Stompie and the pension scams, why didnt she get punished?? or doesnt that matter? - no-name |
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Here we go again
18/07/2007 12:04
For the same reason that Robert McBride walks free today. He is a common murderer and nothing more - oh wait he is - he is the chief of metro police. Go figure that one out. I guess the difference is that he is a "struggle hero" - or Whatever - as you put it. - MM |
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Let them fry
18/07/2007 12:08
Apartheid atrocities, murderers, child molesters and the like. I say let them all fry for all I care, they not wanted and a "oh sorry, please forgive me" just doesn't cut it. But apartheids past should be dealt with once and let it ride, the longer we drag it out the worst it will get. - Win |
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Forget the past?
18/07/2007 12:26
Africans will only forget about the past when Jews no longer commemorate the holocaust, when Afrikaners no longer cry about the Anglo-Boer War, when the Japanese forget about become quiet about Hiroshima, when Kenyans put the British assault on the Mau Mau behind them. Until then, save your breath and channel your energies to other worthy causes. - Zotsho |
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Here is a question
18/07/2007 12:27
You ask those questions, but let me ask you this, you speak of the families that suffered at the hand of the apartheid goverment, but what about the people that the freedom fighters killed, those people also suffer.
During the TRC, not a single ANC person was held accountable, that is also not right or fair - Dawid |
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Here's a bucket of bricks...
18/07/2007 12:31
...go build a bridge and get over it. I was forced into the army for 2 years, lost 3 friends (all under 20) and was brainwashed with NAT politics. I survived, I have moved on, the business is good - only 10 years old. Move on people, get SA right, build it into the Super Power it should be. The past was wrong, the future should be bright! - Dean Swift |
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Hang 'em all
18/07/2007 12:34
Let?s hang all the perpetrators (past and present)!!! Forget skin color. Hang'em all!! At least it will be more exiting than reading all the one-sided views posted on this website everyday. - WTFAUTA |
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Diversion Tactic
18/07/2007 12:34
This is a transparent attempt to diverge our attention away from the sky rocketing crime levels in our country. Governments probable discussion... "Let's see what we can dig up from apartheid so that we can shift focus on what happened in yester-year, so that we don't have to fix what happened yesterday!" These yester-year crimes were / should have been dealt with @ the TRC. Why now bring it up, think about it... - MP3 |
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**burn vlok burn**
18/07/2007 12:35
VLOK must go burn in jail - i say!!He must pay for his racist attrocities!!! - NO-RACIST |
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History as told by whiners
18/07/2007 12:36
Wooohoo lets go down the old revenge path,maybe we can get some of them farm murderers as well they seem awfully well connected...MK anyone...maybe all South Africa needs is a good old French Revolution,that will solve all the problems..Mandela was obviously just a cloud which day by day is clearing..Revenge best served cold? - me |
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Why not at the TRC ?
18/07/2007 12:38
Why didn't Vlok and co-accused not ask amnesty way back at the TRC. That would have given them amnesty. They got amnesty for other deeds but didn't come forward on these. I guess his should fry. I am not happy with this McBride character either, but he came forward and got amnesty. - jonny |
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Magoo's
18/07/2007 12:38
My Aunt's sister was killed in the Magoo's bomb blast and I have to see Robert Macbride every day in my lounge on the TV getting away with even more Heinous crimes!!! Whats good for the goose...... - ITZ |
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Let us all do introspection !!!
18/07/2007 12:39
I think there's a lot that still needs to be done in this country. I looks likes Racism will never disappear to both black and white citizens of this country. It is rather sad to see white people defending apartheid as much as henious crimes committed by my black brothers in this new dispensation. Vlok, Mc Bride etc should all be charged and if found guilty they should serve like other criminals. We can never build this country to prosperity if we habour such emotions about other races. - Unathi |
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Every time...
18/07/2007 12:43
Every time I see the word "colonialist" I want to pull my hair out! Yes, there may have been some rough times in the PAST, but if it wasn't for these "colonialists", South Africa would not be the country it is today. Punish those who committed crimes in the PAST, but then evryone should be punished, including Mcbride and Winnie! The preferential treatment in this instance is unacceptable! - Dylan Hunt |
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True reconcilliation
18/07/2007 12:43
This is the same old argument. Should the ANC be held responsible for all the tortures and deaths that occured in "Quatro Camp" during apartheid? Sorry I forgot, they killed because they were fighting for freedom. The so called "struggle heros" fought for power and money, the same things the Apartheid government fought for. So the ANC and the then NP are the same parties, just different skin colours. - anxious |
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McBride disclosed
18/07/2007 12:46
McBride disclosed details of the bombings at the TRC and Vlok did not. Sorry for him and the other former senior nazi-type rules.. - saportajhb |
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VLok
18/07/2007 12:48
I grew whilest Apartheid were fading away. Apartheid heroes like Vlok, who believes in only the good and white, should be trialed and questioned, and brought to his knees to confess in the court. It's because of people like him that children went to bed hungry, fatherless, brotherless which i think should not be forgotten. Let's not forget to remember the bad because no can ever find closure when you child or husband went missing to never be found and later found dead. Who get's blamed??? - candi |
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Always one sided
18/07/2007 12:49
Apartheid was given as a white against black, so why are the MK sldiers who killed in the name of freedom also convicted? They just the same in the name of polictics of killing the innocents. A murderer is a murderer, no matter which side it was for! Don't just convict one, convict all and show the future kids that we don't take sides. We here to make a difference and go forwards, not backwards. - Win |
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The truth
18/07/2007 12:49
During apartheid, white people killed black people because they fought for what they truly believed was the right thing to do. On the other hand, black people killed white people for the exact same reason. So, which side is right? Everyone fights for their rights, white and black are very similar just very different beliefs. Im a white women, and I will never apologise to anyone for what white people have done to black people in this country (ie washing someone's feet!) - TRC |
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The great divide
18/07/2007 12:50
As they say, "one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist". But another saying comes to mind, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander." Remember folks the struggle heroes killed in the name of freedom. But did the apartheid "villains" also not kill in the name of freedom? There are always 2 sides to a story... - C |
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there is no justification anymore.
18/07/2007 12:51
...let him who is without guilt cast the first stone. - Nick |
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Vlok
18/07/2007 12:52
I have no problem with apartheid bosses being charged..but why do they want to charge Vlok now??? Why couldn't they have done it years earlier? Its pathetic... - knersus |
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Crime?
18/07/2007 12:55
Unathi, SA has such high crime rates because we live in a lawless society. The unemployment and poverty is due to the fact that some fat cats see BEE and AA as their personal enrichment plans. When apartheid was 13 years old, none of the above happened like it is today. I'm not saying it was right, I'm saying stop blaming apartheid. We all need to put our shoulders to the wheel and better our future by building this country together. - Chris |
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Diversion Bulldust
18/07/2007 12:57
MP3 - you're kid with diminished intellect. Your "diverging attention" suggestion is indicative of your inability to assess a situation objectively. Both you and your parents are beneficiaries of apartheid . So get with the program. Broaden your thinking. - Wat Diversion ?? |
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Well said...
18/07/2007 13:11
Well said Zotsho. I went to London for a while and it's clear that S.A. people are the most race-tolerant and forgiving of all nations. Apartheid appears in America (the local Indians only got citizenship after the 1950's), in Australia... everywhere. S.A. has the potential to show the world how to deal with it. Just remember that only time can heal. I talk of experience. My dad committed suicide last year after a lifetime of war-demons and paranoia? - Yolanda McCabe |
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LIVING IN THE PAST
18/07/2007 13:12
if i have been smoking cigarettes for the last 60 years,will that not affect my health 2day? if i then quit for the next 6months, will that clear my lungs from 60 yaers of pollution? the past is very relevent. Yes we must move ffwd, to some extent we have come along way, but it does not help when some people say just get over it like as if it was nothing, i think respect is due towrds blk people as a whole for the way we still handle all the B/S some white ppl talk... - skarr |
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Hehehe, gaan tronk tu.....
18/07/2007 13:17
you can all complain as much as you like about crime being high & unemployment or bee, AA or whatever... the point remains... the terrible state of afairs is the direct result of the pale people.... now they stand back & say look at the darkies fail.... let the old men & hiz friends go to jail.... well sort our problems out that you created for us..... hamba - jo SoaP |
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let move on
18/07/2007 13:18
what was the duty of the TRC, if after so many year Vlokkie has to be presecuted now. We are all africans since we are living in Africa, but please lets not be typical always looking back and complaining how the whites did injustice to us. this story is over said, like a over played song on the radio. Lets look forward and prove to the world that SA can be a success and stop looking back. - Eric |
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TRC - the truth
18/07/2007 13:18
TRC- the truth, wow. You will never apologize for apartheid related crimes. Why the hell not? - TRC- the truth |
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The time will come
18/07/2007 13:19
I Believe the time will come when ALL man will be judged regardless of their color. Vlok did do wrong but who am i to judge him and decide how much someone else's life is worth? I lost my dad to crime is SA a year ago does that make me a victim of the new SA or the new Apartheid area? Let him who have no sin throw the first stone... If Vlok is guilty he must go to jail it will improve his changes of becoming president when he comes out ;-) This counts for the ANC as well they are not saints! - spazman |
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SILLYNESS
18/07/2007 13:19
If this stupidy is going to start all over,how fair will the process be ?What are they trying to proove,those were the times,things were done the country was basically at war.Theres an email going around with the stats on the people that are mis-governing our country,90% of the cabinet are criminals,so lets start this process again .LETS START WITH ENEMY NUMBER 1 - MCBRIDE. - Lee |
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Vlok
18/07/2007 13:20
Making an idiot of yourself by washing your victim's feet is nothing but soothing your own consience.
Vlok, you are a fool. Time to pay for your nonsense.
I can't wait for Eugene de Kock to nail FW de Klerk as well.....
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I agree
18/07/2007 13:20
In fact, as a middle-aged whitey, I say convict the bosses who sent young innocent white boys to do their dirty work, after brain-washing them and filling their heads with rubbish. But conversely, then Saint Mandela must be convicted for acts of terrorism against innocent (mostly BLACK) civilians. Yes, you read right: most of the victims of MK were BLACK PEOPLE!!! - Jelo |
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ANC Innocent ?
18/07/2007 13:21
In the absence of accurate intelligence the ANC branded and necklaced countless so called police informers- In order to rule by fear. They even enjoyed the fact that it was captured on film. How many breadwinners lost their lives in this gruesome manner? At least Vlok was ashamed of his actions and showed remorse. - YTM |
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The past was dealt
18/07/2007 13:23
with,let SA forget about that and look into the future,Vlok did what he was supposed to do then,I would have done the same to whites if I was at his postion.Let blacks,whites,Indians,coloureds live together peacefully and forget about things that happened a decade ago. - ML |
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Vlok and Co
18/07/2007 13:25
Unathi people are very angry ,they never expected to be ruled by a black person.Ask those who defend aparthied this question "what would be happening had there not been political canges in SA"?.They are crying about AA and BEE and forget that in times of their grand fathers blacks were exluded from absoulutely any economic activity. All black people are expected to do is to do tea,coffee,fetch post,do garden,wash cars.let Vlok& Co be proscutedto know that hatred has no rewards - ML |
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wha ha ha ha
18/07/2007 13:26
haha its amazing when people say " you and you're parents are beneficiaries of apartheid". its ignorance at its best with no hard evidence to back it up. as if aparthied officials just drove around door to door handing out hundreds of thousands of rands to white people. my parents grew up with no shoes having to work on mines to make ends meat to support their parents. but im white so what do i know. - mp3's mentor |
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Shaka's kraal
18/07/2007 13:26
Codesa was the white man's 'Dingane's kraal'. - P Basson |
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The past?
18/07/2007 13:28
When are we to be thanked for all the good colonialism brought? When are the PAC/ANC/SACP to apologise for all the atrocities they committed?
Compare the situations of the black african vs the white european 350 years ago with the situation of today. Nobody in his right mind would disagree that the gap is MUCH closer than it was then.
quest 2, Mandela and co was locked up for organising a revolution, in which civilians were being targeted. Rivonia, masker af - LH Strydom. For the other side! - KoosS |
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The truth of reconcilliation
18/07/2007 13:28
Unathi, u r a perfect example of the problem people in this once great country. All sides of the political spectrum lost loved ones during the Apartheid era. It was a war. Wars have casualties. I would also like to punish those (blacks) who killed my (white)families only to rob them of money and goods they are too lazy to try and work for. The reason these prosecutions happen now? It's a political stunt by the ANC for the next election. They have run out of excuses for not delivering... - Danie Kriel |
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I cannot wait
18/07/2007 13:32
for the TRC hearings into the current high violent crime rate,more white South Africans killed than any of the Anglo Boer wars,thats not a coincidence...hopefully we will have the death penalty back for that one.. - me |
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WHAT?
18/07/2007 13:33
I agree the past should be addressed, but please, don't use the past as a stupid excuse for the crime rates that we now face. STOP USING APARTHEID AS AN EXCUSE FOR EVERYTHING THAT'S WRONG IN THIS COUNTRY! - Johan |
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Makes you think ?
18/07/2007 13:38
I often wonder why on gods earth did I vote "yes" in the referendum of 1992 to hand the country over to the ANC .
Since then , I've seen rampant crime , lost my job , my kid's education has gone for a ball of ...and I have watched the slow annihilation of the white population especially the Afrikaner .
I didn?t sign up for this and nor did most other whites. I must feel good about becoming a second class citizen in my own country. ??!!!
- Lips |
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Living in the past impedes progress
18/07/2007 13:42
How about we look at it like "an eye for an eye" and let it go. Vlok and Co killed because they believed what they did was in the name of "the cause." So too did all the other liberation fighters who also believed in "the cause". Opening up old wounds never does any good - it just makes the families relive the trauma. - Sharon |
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TRC & Reconciliation
18/07/2007 13:54
I have to agree with "Forget the Past?" The Jewish people will never forget what happened to them,etc. In my opinion, the true tragedy of the South African past is that the white people were so scared that the africans would perhaps be on the same level eduction wise that the architects of apartheid did not fully educate the african masses. Also remember, South Africa had many years of peaceful protest before the armed struggle was started. - Grace |
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TRC
18/07/2007 14:01
Agree that Vlok and his cronies should be brought to book, but what about Selebi, McBride and Ngacula? How can any country rid itself from crime when Mr. Selebi has a serious cloud of doubt over his integrity & friends, when MacBride is a killer himself, and Ngacula simply to arrogant to admit he cannot do his position justice! And they are all in senior law enforcement positions.... - W |
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I know a tune that irritates people.. and it goes like this ..
18/07/2007 14:04
There is so many brilliant things happening in South Africa, but every single time there comes some sort of unity, every time we begin to move to being ONE South Africa.. some suit cries injustice and everything that we have accomplished as ONE NATION in the last 13 years goes to waste. In South Africa we still hang the title Colonists to people because they are white, what about the Black colonists, who fled war in North Africa? When will we be SOUTH AFICAN and embrace our heritage and cultures? - anon |
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O Vlok
18/07/2007 14:06
Let the man sit. For too long has he been living in denial. Vlok and his cronies should never have appeared before the TRC but straight to jail. Let Eugene de Kock and the other people tell their stories. I have no sympathy for Vlok, Malan, de Klerk and Pik Botha. They are and always were just "manteldraaiers". make them pay. - TheWhip |
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The untold stories
18/07/2007 14:15
You say Vlok was an apartheid hero who fought for whites. I know of a good upstanding Boer, a scientist and researcher at a state institution, who was arrested, beaten to within an inch of his life (suffered a heart attach and was not allowed med treatment), then released without charge. Of course, he was also dismissed from his job. There are many whites like him who suffered at the hands of PW's and FW's Police. I say: good riddance. Our time will come! - Boertjie |
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Forget the past?
18/07/2007 14:17
Zotsho, very well said!! - VLS |
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Wat Diversion?? - WTF?!
18/07/2007 14:18
So you think all white people had it easy during apartheid??? I am so glad my parents raised me in a non-racist enviroment, we were taught to care for our brothers/sister around us, including blacks. I grew up always thinking that it was normal to play soccer with the street kids around our rundown rented home. Don't you dare generalise! You know nothing of what you speak of!!! - Glenn |
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TRC
18/07/2007 14:20
Nice article,but...considering our prosecution rates - Wouter Basson walked away a free man. What about the boermag trial? Millions of rands and years later, the justice system used by the NPA against Vlok will let them down. What are the current victims of crime going to do? Mutate and also start killing? - Tsar |
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Vlok must pay for his sins
18/07/2007 14:26
Vlok didn't come clean, was denied amnesty so now they can prosecute. Its as simple as that. It is distasteful to be trotting him out now though - all very convenient eh? Take the focus off crime and Aids. Get the people baying for blood! it will just make us more hateful towards each other. Should have done this years ago. Hope I get to meet my Daddy's murderers at TRC one day. So I can ask them why they tortured and strangled a retired civil engineer for a watch and the few rands in his wallet? Lucky me, I'm rich now.. But I'd give them all the money just to have him back to meet his grandson. - May |
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Unbelievable
18/07/2007 14:30
The staff l am reading here is unbeleivable & if this is a reflection of race relations in RSA then we have a huge problem. you can basically put a picture behind each post & it's likely that you won't go wrong. Lets go back to work and build this awesome country. Leave politics to politicians and participate in the electoral process to have some influence. - Ans |
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just for the record...
18/07/2007 14:31
i dont ever see jews blaming Germany for their downfalls they're experiencing, i dont see the Japanese looking for hand outs cause they had an atomic bomb dropped on them. they all experienced far worse things than aparthied and look at them today. thats the difference. - mp3's mentor |
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Vlok & Co
18/07/2007 14:37
To be honest the leaders of the previous illegitimate apartheid regime should all be thrown into jail and be left to rot there where they belong.Mcbribe is a struggle hero not a murderer, so leave him alone. - Siphiwe |
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Response to TRC - Truth
18/07/2007 14:38
TRC - the truth, wow. You will never apologize for apartheid related crimes. Why the hell not? -TRC- the truth.
I will not apologise for apartheid related crimes, because I was 14 years old when it ended. Should I spend the rest of my life apologising and feeling guilty for something I had no control over?
I truly believed the end of apartheid was a positive change until my father got shot in the head by a bunch of low life savages (he was donating money to a rural school). - TRC - the truth |
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Adrian Vlok
18/07/2007 14:39
What I think Mr Vlok should do is to plead guilty. Can you imagine what that would do. The Prosecutors and the judges all lining up to get a bit of the action - the media as well gearing themselves up for a good juicy 6 months of dredging up the past - watching all of the defendants squirming in their seats. And along comes Vlok and just pleads guilty - no need for a trial - nothing - no need to tell any stories - defend any action - Plead guilty, get sentenced and thats it. I would love it. - Nadia |
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typical........
18/07/2007 14:44
Firstly a great article - long overdue.
To the racists - Vlok is a criminal period - despite your bigoted ranting regarding Mandela & McBride, crime, AA et al - it does not make him any less of a criminal! Prosecute him as the law compels for all criminals or ask him to emigrate to Australia where he can be amongst his ilk in the biggest prison colony of all. - Ric |
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Forgiveness...what's that?
18/07/2007 14:45
I have so much to say to you, Unathi, but I will be the better person and not lower myself to any racist level. All I can say is this:
You will be forgiven for your sin, just as you are WILLING to forgive. And for those who do not believe, someday you will. - wsaw |
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selective prosecuting of Vlok yet praising the Groot Krokodil won't help!
18/07/2007 14:46
Why prosecute Vlok after such a long time and why sing praises and eulogies for P.W. Botha and yet persecute Vlok.Indeed this persecution and what about a hypocritical Reverend who allows athe sinner(Vlok) to wash his feet and yet doesn't forgive him instead he goes to Botha's funeral whose second wife didn't mince her words when she said in no uncertain terms that they did not want a State funeral. Why allow him to wash yuor feet when u know there was no forgiveness in ur heart you Hypocrites! - Mdu Ka Zulu |
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This is a two way street...
18/07/2007 14:53
Okay fine, if we insist on dewlling in the past, all crimes during the "struggle" should go to trial. On both sides of the fight people did unthinkable things. Granted Vlok is what he is and did what he did, but so did Robert McBride for example and a host of others that killed in the name of freedom. As for letting murderers run free, is that not what government is doing at the moment anyway?
- Vernon Wolf |
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Whats wrong..
18/07/2007 14:54
whats wrong with unathi saying that the past is part of the reason why there is so much crime & poverty ? if u are now 30 yrs old & grew up in a shack ur parents sre dead or just soo broke that u did not go to school, is that person not a product of the old SA, if u have 1,000's of people in this predicament won't some of them turn to crime??. Black & white R S A loves u all,
lets constructively help one another, please for the sake of our children, pretty please - skarr.. |
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Vlok
18/07/2007 14:56
Back in the days, people like Vlok considered themselves at war. Just as the ANC/ SACP did. The war is over ( sort of ). Let sleeping dogs lie, on both sides and get on with life. Stop rehashing the past and keeping the wounds fresh. - Kevin |
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Here's my 2 cents worth...
18/07/2007 14:57
To all who read this: take two deep breaths, put a smile on your face, take another two deep breaths, close this browser window, say "Hi" to the next person you see, and think of something good in this country. I'm sure you'll find something. I know, it's not a solution to all our problems, but has ANYONE on this page given a solution? At least, this way, you smile when you read this. - Mark |
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suggestion..........
18/07/2007 15:01
People of this country should demand that PW Botha be tried & convicted posthumously so he can be forever remebered as the criminal he was! - groot krokodil |
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Struggle Heroes
18/07/2007 15:02
I can just sense that while we speak, new struggle Heroes are born and bred now, and they are not black . . . beware what you do now, it always backfires . . . - ice |
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ML
18/07/2007 15:05
Remember your words, ML "Hatred has no rewards"... - wsaw |
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