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Black/white anything
29/02/2008 10:17
Orania is racist, so is your forum and so are you. Two wrongs dont make a right. Something like the Zulu Journalists Forum would include people of any race. - Ant |
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Racist?
29/02/2008 10:18
I believe most of the people objecting to the FBJ where in fact objecting to the fact the they were excluded from a meeting with Zuma, and not so much that there is a FBJ. And i believe orginisations such as the Jewish Board of Duputies deals only with Jewish matters, but i'm sure they will allow anyone to sit in on their meetings. Excluding people simply for the colour of their skin is racist.Pure and simple. - missing the point |
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Crazy SA
29/02/2008 10:20
The thing is, Orania, Afriforum, etc. doesn't exclude journalists from different nationalities or race.
They only exclude participation of these peoples in the forum. - Pietbril |
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consistency
29/02/2008 10:27
I agree, all i want is consistency. The other big issue this week is the UFS and its integration policies. If we allow an FBJ then we should allow whites only hostels. But if we want to have complete unity and integration, both should be banned (as well as Orania - I dont see the point of it) - greggo |
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Exclusion
29/02/2008 10:29
Its all flat out racism. Exclusion on the basis of race is nothing other. Weather black on white or visa versa. A significant contingent of the black SA community seem to believe that by reversing the roles of Apartheid and creating forums and clubs where whites aren't welcome they are correcting the injustices of the past. Well, it is common logic that 2 wrongs don't make a right. Don't try to justify this racism on the past. Step out of the shackles. - Jim |
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Spot On Madibeng...100%
29/02/2008 10:32
Goodness me Madibeng.My sentiments exactly. Double standards and hypocrisy at the highest level here. You forgot the Freedom Front plus. Last month the FF plus held an exclusive meeting in Orania in the N.Cape none of this reactionaries commented on that note..JZ is the president of ANC not of the country. why condemn the ANC not FF plus. Madibeng we needed credible leaders in Polokwane to nominate for presidency of the ANC, where we you Madibeng..If I could turn back the hands of time.. - kolobe |
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Orania
29/02/2008 10:32
Leave Orania alone. I am white, and have two daughters, aged 5 and 7. They see no colour, which is why I refuse to even think of emigrating. This country has a future, and it is just a matter of time before the silent majority does something about crime and everything else that is wrong in SA. Why do I say leave Orania alone? Because it keeps those idiots out of civilised society! They don't live where I do, and they cannot spout their idiotic ideas anywhere close to where my children are. - CK |
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Not comparible
29/02/2008 10:33
Do we see the head of the most powerful political party at the Black Lawyers Forum, Orania, Afri forum?
No, thats right folks, we dont. The FBJ is unfortunately something allowed to our people and no it is still not illegal for JZ to speak to them. However, is it not a disgrace that JZ believes he can associate himself with such a group? Speaking to a specific demographic is absolutely fine, endorsing the idea that it is okay to remove the rest of SA's demographic from such talks is not. - Thabo |
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Much Ado About Nothing
29/02/2008 10:33
Really, this business should not have raised a fuss. Do men insist that they get included at women's only meetings? Do we even want to be there. No, if black journalists want to get together without whiteys, then I say that is fine. Just as long as there is full co-operation outside these meetings I say go ahead.
- niels |
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Think a bit
29/02/2008 10:34
What influence does Orania have on the country? When was the last time the president of the ruling party and president to be addressed Orania? Are there any criminal charges pending for Orania? Is anyone forbidden to enter Orania? Now, what influence do the media have on the country? Why would JZ have this meeting upon his return from Mauritius? You are not comparing apples with apples. - PC |
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exclusiveness
29/02/2008 10:35
I agree, what is wrong with having forums for blacks or whites only, having schools and varsities for blaks or whites only....oh is I remember...there is a name for it APARTHEID. Does it look like a good idea to you now. - vc |
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Madibeng...
29/02/2008 10:42
You say "Anywhere you go, from the United States, ...black people find themselves having to assert the fact that they too are human beings and deserve to live under conditions similar to those accorded to other races." Unfortunately, anywhere white people go, they have to assert the fact that not all white people are racist. The idea exists that all whites are racist and all blacks can never be racist, just victims of racism. - Ninja |
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I agree totally
29/02/2008 10:43
I full agree with your views on this one. Reconciliation seems to have been created to favour one group over the other. Recently the Human Rights Commissioner highlighted this point, we are faced with a serious implosion coming to our shores. This is a time when things need to be looked into properly. I wish our leaders could attend to this urgently, as the last thing we need is a racial and class revolution. - Tautona |
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Not disputing the need for FBJ
29/02/2008 10:43
I don't know about Max du Preez, but I see no problem with the FBJ... there is a need for it. What I think is totally dof is that people are excluded from attending a conference based on race. Regardless of agendas input from different races should be encouraged. What if a white man wanted to invest some cash in the forum, what if a white man had ideas to make better the media environment for black journalists? Wake up! This black vs white thing is getting old. - Mick |
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F(Freaking) B(Big) J(Joke)
29/02/2008 10:43
In SA these days, I think creating race specific groups demoralises the nation. However I think that should black journalist choose to have their own private club, why not, BUT don't ridicule white journalists should they choose to do the same thing. - Jo |
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Here's the difference
29/02/2008 10:43
Orania is a homeland for relics from the stone age, the FBJ should be a progressive bunch, looking to advance integration in SA. Zuma, shouold be everyone's president, not showing favour to specific groups, especially not based on colour. This only perpetuates racial tension. Welcome to the 21st century. - ian |
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Orania vs FBJ
29/02/2008 10:45
I have no issues with the FBJ at all. It is OK in my books to have black forums to which only black people belong. So too for Coloured, Indian, Asian ect groups! That is your culture and the Gov cant force us to mix our cultures (its like mixing oil with water - they just cant!) but they could still be in one cup! The thing is this: I am sure the people of Orania don't mind if other races drive through their streets, unlike the FBJ's meeting where they denied access to others. Get the point?? - Orania |
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FBJ
29/02/2008 10:46
Madibeng, i thi nk the majority of readers will agree with you and perhaps find nothing wron with the FBJ HOWEVER, when the president of the ANC calls for a press conference with the FBJ ONLY. Totally unacceptable and irresponsible on his yhalf. He knows that he is not trusted but a large proportion of ALL South Africans. This just fuels thier mistrust. - John Camp |
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Good article
29/02/2008 10:49
Exclussive Black Forum's must be launched only if its to adress issues facing black people only, like the slams, the UFS saga, the Skielik saga, crime and unemployment such as Employment Equity and AA will fail if Black people do not unite and engage among themselves on how to deal with this issues.
If not invited to join as members, white people must be invited in the forum's getherings.
- Philani |
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one small point
29/02/2008 10:53
Orania - which as a white afrikaner, I personally think is one of the silliest ideas ever - is a community of narrowinded individuals that try to remove themselves from the rest of south africa. Great! All racists should follow this road. A racially exclusive entity has no place in South Africa and should not be encouraged. I cant believe you try to justify FBJ by comparing it to orania!! - Andrew |
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Wrong
29/02/2008 10:58
It is totally wrong in my mind to have any party, forum or group that excludes people becuase of race, wheather it be balck, white, indian, afrikaanse or whatever! And anyone who disagrees with that is part of the problem and not the solution. My concern is that JZ is saying it is ok and right and this clearly shows that he has no idea of how to lead this country and unify the people the right way. So if he condons this it just opens up the flood gates to more race exclusion agendas!! - wb |
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Niels--Thank You
29/02/2008 10:58
people like niels should be congratulated for their transfromed minds..agree with you 100% Niels..My friend I congrarulate you for the first time.You understand and respect the rights of others towards the principles of self determinations.. - kolobe |
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Quite frankly your argument baffles the mind.
29/02/2008 10:59
Comparing a blatantly race - exclusive media organisation to a self sufficient community is like comparing apples to bananas.We all rely on the media to provide impartial,factual reporting at all times (especially when it comes to briefings given by the possible next president of the Republic).What occurs in Orania has no effect on the rest of the country,while in the case of the FBJ it does.They are the media for heavens sake and have an obligation to us all. - The Truth |
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eish Madibeng Kgwete aikona
29/02/2008 11:00
aggeno Madibeng Kgwete if you watched television recently a black journalist went into oranje to find out more about the afrikaner culture and she was welcomed and treated very well by the locals, so even in oranje there is no discrimination like at the FBJ where it is exclusive for blacks and no white jouranlists were alowed.Keep it up, the international world is waking up to black racism and black apartheid! - I |
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Eradicate ALL racism
29/02/2008 11:00
We cannot allow ANY such organisations. The FBJ excluded people of a certain race. Orania excludes people of a certain race. Both are racist organisations and have no place in this country. An FBJ, Orania, a forum for white/Jewish/coloured journalists that welcomes all are prefectly fine. As someone said, two wrongs do not make a right! We cannot defend the FBJ because there are other discriminatory organisations. There is just is no excuse for any! Note how cries of hypocrasy and double standards come from both sides of the racial divide. Can we not find a common ground and forget about race once and for all? - envirokid |
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media's NB role cannot be compared to Orania
29/02/2008 11:01
I understand the principle that you are standing for here, but the media has a far further reach than the small (and yes, horribly racist) community of Orania. As soon as racism and exclusion are aloud in an industry as central to a nation as the media, we have problems. - hmph |
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Where are we going to?
29/02/2008 11:05
We as South Africans are doomed if we in this supposed non racially, democratic era still get people who defend this whether it is Orania or the BJF ar anything simular. White or black or any other race orientated classification does not have a place in this country and if it does we have not moved one single centimeter forward since 1992! If BS like this is allowed now it will only grow bigger and the devide and hatred between races will just grow stronger and stronger! - WHM |
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Facts
29/02/2008 11:05
Suggest that you gather some facts about Orania instead of making wild assumptions. In any event, Orania and its inhabitants are regarded by thinking people as a curious little anacronism inhabited by irrelevant little people. It seems that is the company in which you wish to place the FBJ. - JD |
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I Agree
29/02/2008 11:09
Keep the FBJ. Keep Orania. No problem. But for God's sake get rid of the government. - Paul |
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And why drag Orania into it anyway?
29/02/2008 11:09
Not that I have any wish to live in the middle of nowhere (which is where it is),but what harm have the people of Orania done to rest of the country anyway? They have a well run municipality,education and healthcare system as far as I know and should be applauded for that.In fact I believe some of their administration models are being studied by our government for future use.What does that tell you? - The Truth |
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WTF?
29/02/2008 11:13
How the hell is the country suppose to become a "rainbow" nation with thinking like yours? All thats going to happen is the whites and the blacks are going to hate each other more becuase the one is not "black/white" enough to be allowed entry. Its the same as before having white and black only places. O well keep it up lets see what happens. - Dale |
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No Problem with FBJ,..or any of those organisations!
29/02/2008 11:13
They are fine, so long as they don't discrimintae against other races like they did with the JZ address. These organisations are perhaps even necessary for people especially minorities to have their voice heard. The whiteys are gonna have to start creating these types of things if our voices are ever to be heard again. But unlike apartheid nobody should be excluded from attending the meetings based on race. Attend contritribute, criticise..its all good... - dwp |
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Madibeng & Kolobe
29/02/2008 11:21
The more I read ur guys' points of view, the more I am led to believe that both of you have a massive chip on your shoulders concerning whites.
That aside, and a little of the point is that a lot of news24 users hate the western societies.Yes, they were responsible for slavery & exploiting Africa's riches. BUT, they also helped bring Africa out of the darkness. Just yesterday France vowed to help us with our elec. problems. It's time for africa to stop blaming & start working. - Werner |
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WORLD OF RACISM
29/02/2008 11:23
Racism is alive all over the world just ask Lewis Hamilton, Terry Henry and other black soccer players in Europe who were verbally attacked with racist hate. Also ask the black teenager who are attacked by the NYPD, LAPD just because he looks suspicious by being black or he is close nearby a area a crime were committed also ask black farm workers in rural South Africa. Also ask the minority immigrant groups in Europe - all of these people will tell you that racism is alive in our world as they have first hand experience of it - for us as black people to fight against this we need to mobolise ourselves in a way that will stop the vitimisation and torture to ensure we are being treated fairly and given equal opportunities and for this to happened we need orgarnisations like the FBJ, BMF and others who will defend against discrimination of black in this country. - colin |
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Jy Pietbril
29/02/2008 11:24
Spot on Piet. Only wrong committed by the FBJ was the exclusion of other races from the venue. they should have allowed them to listen in but not participate in the forum's INDABA. - Malebza |
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Not again
29/02/2008 11:25
What is wrong with some black South Africans who like explaining something that does not need any explanation. Let me repeat myself, there is nothing wrong with FBJ. FWJ can be established and JZ will attend if invited.I owe no one an explanation for meeting with my black people.Madibeng pls find something better to right about, you need not comment any further on this issue, ENOUGH.... - PAT |
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re
29/02/2008 11:26
You got it all wrong. Orania is not a white only town. Yes, only whites stay there cause I suppose no black really has to urge to stay there. If you want, you (as a black man) can go right ahead and live there. There might be some resistance but I gaurentee you you'll be able to live there. - mike |
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great article, white people never speak on Orania
29/02/2008 11:27
or criticise it's existence, just like they "never voted or supported apartheid". Having said that, the exclusion of people at any event because of their race is simply racist and unacceptable. - tshepo |
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Julia Lekgota.........
29/02/2008 11:29
She and her husband were our neighbours in Limpopo for a very short time. However after a few months they moved again. Why? Julia admitted that she longed for her own people, even the noise at the shebeens!! not very far from where they used to stay. Is this wrong??????? - Annie |
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Standard Approach
29/02/2008 11:29
This comes up so much - "If they are doing that, it is ok for us to do that." Why not lobby against Orania instead of trying to validate white journalists being kicked out. It is childish to behave in such a manner. - MJ |
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Points to Consider
29/02/2008 11:30
After listening to one gentleman from FBJ, I was convinced that the intention of the meeting was NOT devilish. This is what he said.
* Our audience were black journalists
* We used Zuma so that this targeted audience could be attracted(or will respond positively)
We are sick and tired of reading about a corrupt government,currupt officials, fat cats and the rest of it.These guys were going to come up with something new maybe, who knows, give them a chance please. - Abram Modisakeng |
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perceptions and prejudices
29/02/2008 11:34
"Racism against black people is a global phenomenon and black people must organise themselves to tackle this" says the writer. Racism is another form of prejudice. Prejudices are mostly based on repeated similar often unfavourable experiences and continue through hearsay. Instead of blaming the whole world for your problem, find out what caused the problem in the first place and remedy that. Exclusion is not a solution unless one is confident and self reliant enough (Orania). One cannot ask for protection (BEE) from society and at the same time exclude the same society from your thinking and planning. Orania has not asked for WEE. - Benzo |
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FBJ vs Black Lawyers' Association
29/02/2008 11:37
My brother is a WHITE lawyer and a MEMBER of the Black Lawyers' Association. - JRS |
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You are so wrong!!
29/02/2008 11:38
Two wrongs dont make a right. Orania is racist whether anyone speaks about it or not. There is absolutely no place for racial exclusion of any form in SA. the FBJ was just out of order by excluding whites. btw i am black, and not really a black elite. your racist views irk me. - boni |
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Do anyone even know...
29/02/2008 11:44
what JZ said and what was said at the FBJ? - Big R |
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Keep Orania...
29/02/2008 11:47
Have you seen Orania? Have you seen where it is? I think it is punishment enough to have to live there. Let them keep Orania. As for the FBJ in principal I dont have a problem but this divisive kind of thing is undermining black journalists much more that helping them. Have you looked at who signs the cheques? You cannot negotiate without leverage and the FBJ has no leverage and neither provides it. - Ami |
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wrong comparison
29/02/2008 11:47
If you want to draw Orania and the Freedom Front into this, just some facts. I was present with the FF Youth congress which was also observed by journalists, a black one among them. He was everywhere treated like anybody else and noboby would even think strange about him being here. Orania is less racist than most people in the rest of the country, we are past racism and focus on ways to create self-sufficiancy for a marginalised minority.
- Sebastiaan Biehl |
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When will you learn?
29/02/2008 11:48
It takes a big man to forgive the injustice of the past. That's just what it is, the past, And I see very few men, just little boys. How can one steer themselves safely and prosperously into the bright future when his eyes are only focused on the dark past. Turn your vision the other way and look towards the light. You will be able to see a whole lot more and all the good things that lie ahead. If you choose not to, then carry on being an unhappy sorry ass racist. It just makes YOUR life worse. - Anti Division |
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Black / White
29/02/2008 11:49
Being too black/white shouldn't be the criteria in any given forum. Too stupid should. People like Like Zuma, Mbeki, Manto, Winnie, Naledi, Erwin, etc - in short, everyone in government, excluding Trevor Manuel, should be excluded from any and all discussions. Zuma's comments at said conference would have been idiotic anyway. - VinnyTheSaffer |
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Orania
29/02/2008 11:53
There are no rapes in Orandia, there are no murders in Orania, there is no corruption in Orania, no ATM's get bombed in Orania, there are no drug-dens in Orania, there are no shebeens in Orania, there is no crime in Orania - I wonder why? Leave the FBJ alone - they are absolutely correct. After all, that was the great dream of H.F Verwoerd. - goliath |
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ORania
29/02/2008 11:54
is actually on private property an as such the owners have a right to decide who is allowed on it. Contrary to posts above Orania is actually doing well and growing. No squatter camp before or after the town which makes it unique in ZA. ITs an expample of a volk knuckling down and getting things done as per the ant and the grasshopper story. the FBJ and black lawyers assoc etc are racialist in their fundamentals... - IceCreamMan |
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Mixed up
29/02/2008 11:58
You are mixing up racism and the context in which it occurred with cultural,political or religious segregation. it goes without saying that Jews will form a Jewish club, or the ANC might form an ANC club. But to exclude people from a forum for the purposes of having a privilaged meeting with a high ranking government figure, based on race, is racist and intolerable. Try and apply some logic next time. - Alex |
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Own words
29/02/2008 11:58
---Interviewed on SAfm recently, Makue apologised for the exclusion of white journalists from the said controversial meeting, saying he does not condone the alleged racial behaviour by members of his organisation, directed at white journalists at the beginning of the meeting.---
So by your own words, you admit that some blacks is being racist to whites. Just as only some whites are. - padkos |
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Conduct Unbecoming
29/02/2008 12:00
whites journalist like Ben Said must learn the manners...Blacks dont force themselves in Orania so must this white journalists..the black journalist that went to Orania..politely requested the permission to access orania..She did not push her entrance without respect like this white Journalists..they must learn and respect the rights of others to self determination... - kolobe |
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...deserve to live under conditions similar to those accorded to other races.
29/02/2008 12:05
What does this statement mean at the end of the letter? Go to Lagos my friend! See the squalor of that city. What do you mean by "deserve to live under conditions similar to those accorded to other races"? What conditions do blacks accord themselves in places like Lagos with all that oil money? Stop wanting stuff to be given to you for nothing! Set yourself to work and build up for yourself: "conditions similar to those accorded to to other races".
- Alan |
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Your argument has no substance....
29/02/2008 12:15
To say that only a select race is subject to racism is absurd and bird-brained. RACISM ocurrs everywhere and not only against blacks but also against white, asian, coloured and indian nations. The Jewish Board of deputies do not exclude any race therefore your argument is plain stupid on that count. Lets be realistic if whites had to form there own group, YOU would probably be the first branding them racists. You proclaim self-determination for yourself yet when others do it,its racism.Hypocrites - Realist |
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FBJ = Coward
29/02/2008 12:17
FBJ are cowards, why scared of saying anything they like in front of everyone. Leave Orania out please, I'm black like FBJ folks but will visit to that place before end of this year to learn from Oranians how to make a peaceful society. Fact, all the victims of crime I know were attacked either in "black" areas or by a "black". Ask me how I escape a hijack at gun point last week.Ndisatshaya.MySA.com - MySA.com |
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Interesting Madibeng
29/02/2008 12:18
Interesting article you've put together. I've not heard of a philosophical reason why the FBJ should exist_only, retorts like "..no one questions to board of Jewish deputies..". Tell, us why you see the need. Madibeng, you'll know that Orania is private property on which people associate as they wish and as far as I know, that is not illegal. Afterall, I neither have white friends nor do I invite any white people to my house..as a matter of principle (not because Orania also exists).Get my drift? - Skhosana |
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"Forget the past..." by ANTI_DIVISION
29/02/2008 12:29
Such diatribe as "..forget the past.." is simply unbelievable and arrogant in the extreme. As a black man, I refuse to forget the past_that is not mutually exclusive from focussing on the future. I have forgiven my white tommentors...but not forgoten. I suggest you accept my forgiveness and unfortunately, you have to deal with your horrible past...fact of life. - Skhosana |
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the NEW SA is a failure - admit it
29/02/2008 12:30
As it is built on false and unnatural ideologies the NEW SA cannot work. The FBJ dont want whites around, Orania dont want other cultures, The UFS students mock integration. Yet you idiots persist with this ideocracy. Have You noticed that when "white subburbs" integrate the whites seem to move? Have you noticed how Hostels favour ethnic groups like Zulu. Freedom of association is natural - integration is unnatural as it is forced onto South Africa - it like the NEW SOuth Africa is doomed. - dannie de beer |
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Just a minute!!
29/02/2008 12:30
Remember that journos LOVE making a name for themselves by causing / reporting controversy. This is such a classic case of overreaction and everybody is falling into the trap.
SA has far bigger issues than this one. Live with the fact that birds of a feather flock together. I dont feel left out because my penis prevents me from joining a women's group! - Neil |
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sick
29/02/2008 12:34
you know Madibeng, its people like you that make me sick! people that think like you, be it white pink or silver that keep running this country off the rails. narrow minded people like you that should actually leave this country and not the skilled workers, ordinary people that really want to make a difference. your pathetic! keep your racist and childish remarks at home. forget about the past for once and move on. for all we know your 18 years of age and the past had no impact on you whatsoever! - bruskie |
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I Agree
29/02/2008 12:44
I Agree with Malebza comments let the other races join the sitting but no comments alowed. The media is the most powerfull entity we have in this country and they alone can blow anything out of place. - Concerned |
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Anyone?
29/02/2008 12:46
Can anyone tell me what JZ said at the FBJ? Please... - Big R |
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