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Indeed
24/04/2008 13:28
A valid argument and precisely the way I feel. Transformation would have perhaps taken a longer time but this would allow a generation of black graduates to gain valuable experience and skills instead of being seen as "quota managers", which some of them are, if you listen to how they describe their job satisfaction. Also, most BEE deals don't benefit the average black South African, but a few filthy rich political pawns. - Wernardt |
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Transformation with skills transfer.
24/04/2008 13:33
The pace is just to fast, there must be proper and correct skills transfer done to ensure the service is not affected by transformation. Sadly this was forced and almost all services has suffered. - Ach |
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i am no quota
24/04/2008 13:33
Great article! I only want what i earn. - khotso |
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Agreed
24/04/2008 13:33
Transformation would eventually happen although at a slower pace. White people controlled this country for more than 300 years, you cant expect black people to just take over within a matter of years. The problem is, many blacks want the money and power now and are not willing to wait. - dhv |
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I don't agree
24/04/2008 13:37
Libembe,unfortunately there are still people in this country that do not want to change.Humans,whether they are black or white,have a tendency to trust people that they understand more.So even though most white people believe transformation is needed, most of them still would not have implemented it because they do not know and understand other cultures.It needs to be forced down on us to be sure it happens.In business, nobody cares about ?justifying? anything, all they care about is making money - Hennie |
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Transormation?
24/04/2008 13:37
Transformation = Racism. You can call it any other name you like but it remains - Racism. - Nick |
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You put too much trust in ppl
24/04/2008 13:38
i disagree wholeheartedly with you. What i would like to see is AA policies modified a bit for the non black youth in the country. Again i'd like to say what yr proposing would only work in a dream world.
@the truth, i was actually agreeing with you in that other post. - tshepo |
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SPOT ON!!!
24/04/2008 13:38
"..the problem is the way it has been implemented.." The problem with the government/superquick transformed entities is that they are reactive and not pro-active. 2 examples are ESKOM and our road network. Things should be maintained regularly and not when it breaks down. That is a direct result of rushing transformation. Now the deputy minister want to import foreign skills. We HAVE the skills in SA, unfortunately the colour of those skills is white... - jannie |
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Well said!
24/04/2008 13:40
Well said Libembe. I agree with your comments 100%. - Mike |
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Nice one Libembe,
24/04/2008 13:40
You should have mentioned that AA/BEE is inherently racist and discriminatory in its nature. Let people be free to choose. Social Engineering, like Apartheid and AA/BEE, is doomed to fail. Now to convince the fools in the government. - hjs |
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Sorry mate
24/04/2008 13:41
If you think people will do what is right when someone is not watching, then you are dreaming. If transformation would have happened on its own, do you think apartheid would have lasted as long? I doubt it. So, I think we are only human and we need urging to do the right thing - LvH |
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Hats off to you Libembe
24/04/2008 13:41
Yet another well researched and thought provoking piece of writing from you,well done. - The Truth |
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Black people are advantaged too...
24/04/2008 13:42
...transformation goes on the principle that ALL black people were disadvantaged. Bullsh*t! A lot of them studied, worked overseas and came back after apartheid. Now they are the ones that benefit from BEE, while the poor blacks that couldnt do that, suffer. THAT IS UNFAIR!!! - jannie |
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nonsense
24/04/2008 13:44
sorry but you're speaking horse crap.. theres no ways transformation would take place without legislation.. if anything current loopholes in legislation sees white women benefiting the most.. if there was no legislation then naturally only whites would benefit. - aa |
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Great Article
24/04/2008 13:46
Agreed - transformation would have taken place regardless and skilled incumbents would not have been forced out to accomodate illiterate unskilled black folks - see eskom. Black folk are acquiring skills at an incredible pace and would have naturally transformed business through ability and skills. Once again good intentions see their collective asses in reality. Now we have thousands of top earning AA dodo`s contributing next to nothing and blocking truly skilled young black and white folk. - Stryker |
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How?
24/04/2008 13:47
It's the way transformation is implemented that should be looked at. Yes, companies should be forced to employ all races, but most importantly - underprivileged people should be given the advantage in terms of education. Give them bursaries, make it cheaper for them, give them extra education to catch up what was lost. All this to make sure that when they are employed, they are qualified. - Hennie |
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Support
24/04/2008 13:48
Good article,it is bad that companies transform because they are forced to,our people are not given enough support and are bound to fail. - Bokamoso |
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not reality
24/04/2008 13:49
Libembe, its all well and good when you sit in your business school class and read the theory. im sure it all makes perfect sense and rosy. wait untill you come into the real world and actually realize that 'they' will not transform that easily.South Africa is a very complex place to be and through trials and more trials will we get it right. we need to come up with some form of solution to allow qualified and deserving people(black) to be started off on equal par to their white counter parts. currentlyy AA/EE is one of the trials we have to use to achieve this. - sibu |
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Exactly
24/04/2008 13:50
Intelligently deduced. Transformation should have been a natural process. Intergrated by the very points you put forward. To legalise transformation by enforcing BEE,AA, EE etc. is the very same as what the NATS did by legalising apartheid. Different circumstances but same thing. - JTA |
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Transformation
24/04/2008 13:51
I agree with most of what you said.Moreover Affirmative action lends itself to the "Peter principle" Pushing someone into a job function way beyond his capabilities because ligislation dictates the advancement of previously disadvantaged employees.Labour equity is a disaster Look at Eskom and Telkom - Ricardo |
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Transformation
24/04/2008 13:52
Yes there are problems with transformation no doubt.I wonder though what makes people theink it would have happened naturally when apartheid did not and still exist save to say it is no longer law.White people have benefited from apartheid and their generations still do.If we accept that the Previous dispensation was evil we have to accept transformation.White people should be gratefull that Blacks are not enforcing transformation outside the provision of the law. - mkhomazi |
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Scrap transformation
24/04/2008 13:52
I just want to congratulate Libembe on this article. I can work with people like Libembe, I had to leave the country that I love 6 years ago, not because I am a racist or couldn't work with black people (I still have many black friends in South Africa) My problem was that I am a white male. If all the politicians in SA just had half the brains Libembe got South Africa would have been a different country after 14 years of ANC rule, instead they smiled while all professionals left the country - Ricardo UK |
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Agreed
24/04/2008 13:52
Transformation should happen naturally. Look what happend in Zim when the backbone of their economy was forced of the land and clueless people replaced them. These guys did not know what to do because they were used to carrying guns and plant landmines, not drive tractors and plant mielies. People should be educated and have skills before being put into positions. Stop the window dressing. Great article BTW! - Cane Rat |
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I agree
24/04/2008 13:53
I'm not one for forced transforamtion but I have no problem with transformation. If it's forced then it fails miserably. Black or white if a man is worth his salt and works hard he has more respect from me than someone placed in that position because of his skin colour. Unfortunatelty we in the era of change and we going to have to deal with the problems that come with it. Years from now things would be in equilibrium for the better reasons of change. - Win |
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Great article Libembe...
24/04/2008 13:53
But, as much as I acknowledge the damage that this over-hasty and misapplied AA etc has done to government departments and services (such as Eskom), it was necessary. Without it, the transition may not have continued to be peaceful. Now it is time to stop enriching the few while focussing on ALL those who don't have their piece of the rainbow pie. Support a party that cares for everyone, not just power - before it's too late like in Zim! - Wiseman |
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To Bee or not to bee
24/04/2008 13:53
Appealing to peoples conscience doesn't help when money is involved. They would still go to church on Sunday and beg forgiveness and start the whole process again! Current BEE deals are a farce. It sends the wrong message to schoolkids. Why graduate and work when you can get it for nothing (BEE). Rather change the rules so that only GRADUATES in a field can get involved in the company LTerm. This way black intellectuals can harness knowledge and empower future generations. - anon |
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agree totally
24/04/2008 13:54
and would like to add that top down transformation is entirely useless when it comes to ensuring that a young black child is given the same oppurtunity as a young white child. ie ensure that township schools have the same resources and facilites as previously white schools. I wander how an English child would fare writing mathematics or physics in Venda? Anyone feel like starting a fund to eventually have all textbooks translated to 11 languages, you have my support and assistance wherever needed - mallencolly |
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Unfortunately Business in SA is not apolitical
24/04/2008 13:54
Political freedom is unsustainable without economic freedom. Business SA is run by white management with black labour. With these prestige positions, white people are able to get best education, healthcare etc which in turn increases their chance of getting good matric results and studying at the best universities in engineering, science and finance. This further increase their chance of good jobs and the cycle would continue. Investors only care abt ROI not transformation. - Nkosikhona |
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Unsotrue
24/04/2008 13:54
Without legislation, transformation would have been so difficult for the average bantu.Some companies even now dont have a single representaion of a person of colour.And yet more than 80% of the people they service are non white.And i think women should also have representation,balance the scales so to speak.Commorades,i say VIVA BEE CHARTER!!!i hear there's some white oak in Benoni who changed his name to Sipho Dlamini.Once you go black,you'll never go back!! - BEE |
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Transformation
24/04/2008 13:56
No transformation will happen naturally.There is still resistance to transformation.if transformation is not implemented legally, white people will always be ahead of blacks, cause as we speak whites are looking after their own. Black will remain as labourers for white people.Ask blacks who do articles in law and accounting firms, they will tell you that.Have you forgotten about the Investec intern who was not trained and preference given to whites of the same qualifications? - Mots |
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Libembe, why do you think Mugabe went nuts?
24/04/2008 13:58
is the willing buyer/seller in this country working? is tranformation naturally happening in rugby? how many white universities would still be around? Im sorry but yr way off here, did whites "naturally" realise that Apartheid had to go? I guess Mandela wasted his time in prison as things would've naturally sorted themselves out. - tshepo |
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nonsense
24/04/2008 13:58
sorry but you're speaking horse .. theres no ways transformation would take place without legislation.. if anything current loopholes in legislation sees white women benefiting the most.. if there was no legislation then naturally only whites would benefit. - aa |
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Nice try..
24/04/2008 13:59
Limbebe, while you are still enjoying your envisaged pets-on-the-back bliss, let me burst your bubble of ignorance: a) with no Legislation, pale males will have to justify nothing(remember apartheid?) b)Companies today still employ unskilled whites and resist AA. c+d)Without legislation Gov cannot refuse pale male services/products. e)It does not matter who hired black managers first, if its right then just do it, why exclude qualified blacks? f) social groupings are toothless. - Bizza |
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Transformation
24/04/2008 13:59
You are very naive.These people refuse to change and it neccessitated in legislation.Youre argument is horse crap as someone mentioned. - Jonah |
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Most blacks wont agree with you
24/04/2008 14:00
Mostly I agree. I may say BEE is not always set for failure if you are a above ave black person you could be more than a milionare by now. There is already a black billionare in SA who benefitted from BEE, but a natural process would be a more fair process if humans could respect each other. - Sam |
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LOL
24/04/2008 14:01
The problem is that it is everyone else except us who are doing these things.Charity begins at home..remember... Transformation does not begin with a financially-viable "fishing" expedition huh. Transformation is transformation. WTF... hey, I'm getting bored with all the crap ritten here. C'est la vie... - C'mon |
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Limbebe
24/04/2008 14:04
g)hmmm, boycotts? What a good idea, remind me to notify SACP and Cosatu.
h)With no political interference, business & farmers will continue exploiting blacks
I am glad you are a business & econos student but I see you need some political conscientisation. One book for you my man 'I write what I like' - Steve Biko - Bizza |
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where do you draw the line?
24/04/2008 14:06
How do they differentiate between the "whites that have been running the country for x number of years" and played a role in apartheid and on the other side the "white" people that moved to South Africa from other countries after 1994? AA is just blatant racism targeting people of a certain race(whites only). I am french and my family moved here when I was still very young. But because my skin is white, I am now discriminated against (and hated by black people!) just because my skin is pale! - Francey |
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aa
24/04/2008 14:06
is it rewarding to be as bitter as you are? - Ryan van Wyk |
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I almost agree
24/04/2008 14:07
While I agree that we may not be going about transformation the right way, laws are neccessary. Being in a white dominated company - and white myself - you still see a lot of prejudice. I do think, however, that todays children should not be subjected to AA, and allowed to compete on equal footing. - andrew |
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@tshepo
24/04/2008 14:08
Apologies tshepo my friend (it looks like I will be needing new spectacles).Peace - The Truth |
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Logic
24/04/2008 14:09
A very well written column. The statements are made based on logic and not some fantasy pipe dream. The government and the whole world for that matter needs more logic. The world has turned into a very illogical place and everyone is suffering because of that. (Except the idiots that make the decissions) - Logic |
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Nonsense
24/04/2008 14:11
Now who's talking crap - "current loopholes" my ass. White women have had to take the slack in many ways since our husbands were discriminated against through these policies which quite honestly DO NOT BENEFIT many of the black people of OUR country. As a white woman in a professional position I still do not believe we are equally compensated to our male counterparts no matter what colour they are. Get off you pedestal nonsense and go talk to the people living in the townships - fact!!! - Now who's talking crap |
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to aa , hennie & LvH
24/04/2008 14:11
It doesn't seem you read the whole column, Libembe lists EIGHT reasons why transformation WOULD have taken place. I agree with Libembe, making it law was not the best option. Well writen, thanks. - Natalie |
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In your dreams
24/04/2008 14:13
The market forces or any social engineering will not transform the companies to elevate blacks in senior positions or as business partners. Forget about the law of supply & demand being equal to equillibrium because there exist grey areas in the economy. Therefore the DTI & Labour Dept should enforce quotas and those who are resisting changes should be pulled along kicking and screaming until they turn blue. Do not regurgitate what you read as gospel truth but scrutinize it as an economicst. - Calvin Mkhize |
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Tshepo
24/04/2008 14:13
I agree with you, and those who share your sentiment (not about the rugby though, that's a different debate). Things wont naturally sort themselves out and legislation is needed, its just a fine line between justice and revenge. - Andrew |
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A serious appeal
24/04/2008 14:13
EE in the way it is applied will cause the following, and the black man must listen! Look up in Africa what happened there! Do you want famine, and coming out of famine, war. You will get killed if able people do not run the show! - Sentinel |
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Too late
24/04/2008 14:13
I agree that AA should now be abolished, it is over 10 years later and the horse is tired, however I have left because of AA, I am tired of being discriminated against because I am not the right colour. I have taken my skills where I am judged on my work and my skin colour doesn't come into play. I am now happier than I could have ever been in SA. - Ex SA |
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Well written
24/04/2008 14:14
I appreciate you faith in business, but I think had it not been legislation it would have taken much longer. Even if there are formaly disadvantages people who are not quite up for the job at least there children will be getting a better education through their increase in salary. I admit the current system is far from perfect but it helps address a serious problem. But speak to me again when I don't get a job because I'm white, I'll probably change my tune. - Rian |
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Valid point
24/04/2008 14:14
While I agree transformation will take place naturally over time, I don't think many would have done so as quickly. Forced transformation is a racist policy. Where do you draw the line? Natural transformation is too slow and forced transformation is wrong! - Robert |
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A bit naive
24/04/2008 14:15
I respect your views, but sadly are a bit out of context. If everything happens voluntarily, why did the Nats forced the protection of white civil servants and property owners durin the negotiations? When the West offer aid to poor countries, thestate the conditions for offring such. This is in the same spiritas transformative laws in SA. U cannot trust the market for dispensing justice - the fit (in this case, the skilled/educated/privileged whites) always survive. Profit and justice dont mix! - TheOne |
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I understand why
24/04/2008 14:17
But the how sucks. Instead of improving the lifes, of the poor, giving them skills etc. BEE is used to re-empower Tokyo Sexwale and folks like him, OVER AND OVER. I was watching an interview with him the other day. His wife and kids are white (God bless the truly transformed), YET, he was wondering why his kids couldn't get BEE status. BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY STINKING FILTHY RICH @$$H073!!! - Sinudeity |
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Zim here we come
24/04/2008 14:18
Lets call a spade a spade.Affirmative action is the reason for poor service delivery, poor education ,no power,corruption poor healthcare and crime.By appointing incompetent people in every part of our society is a bomb waiting to explode.The only thing in this country that is working is the economy which can change in a heartbeat.I say keep affirmative action so they can run the country deeper into the ground and proove to themselfes that they are incompetent.Zim here we come!! - shane |
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mkhomazi
24/04/2008 14:18
"grateful...beyond the provision of the law" - you sound like an apartheid activist. White supremecists use to say how "grateful" the black man should be for what the white allows them. It was rubbish back then, and it's not more truthful now. - Andrew |
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Force
24/04/2008 14:18
Force a machine to change too fast and you might break it. Eskom and the roads department are good examples. All the maintenance skills left and now there is a huge backlog of undone maintenance and a collapsing road and power system that is old. 80 of our roads are past their 20 year replacement life and the same for the power. Siemens just discontinued support for the control systems at SA's old coal plants. No maintenance and upgrading has happened due to forcing AA/BEE. - Michael |
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A bit naive
24/04/2008 14:19
I respect your views, but sadly are a bit out of context. If everything happens voluntarily, why did the Nats forced the protection of white civil servants and property owners durin the negotiations? When the West offer aid to poor countries, thestate the conditions for offring such. This is in the same spiritas transformative laws in SA. U cannot trust the market for dispensing justice - the fit (in this case, the skilled/educated/privileged whites) always survive. Profit and justice dont mix! - TheOne |
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Transformation needs to be forced!!!
24/04/2008 14:19
Its a fact that our white countrymen have never been open to share the wealth they have accumulated because of apartheid. If white owned companies(which owned more than 90% of the countrys wealth in 1994)had decided to open their boardrooms when apartheid ended then government wouldnt have made laws to force transformation. It wont take 14 yrs to make right injustices of over 350yrs period!!!Lets continue with tranformation. LEMBEDE YOU ARE CONFUSED. - kumalo |
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To "clueless" Tshepo
24/04/2008 14:20
"did whites "naturally" realise that Apartheid had to go?" Tshepo, most whites in SA voted (referendum) to end apartheid. So, yes whites did naturally realise apartheid had to go ;)
- helen |
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A bit naive
24/04/2008 14:20
I respect your views, but sadly are a bit out of context. If everything happens voluntarily, why did the Nats forced the protection of white civil servants and property owners durin the negotiations? When the West offer aid to poor countries, thestate the conditions for offring such. This is in the same spiritas transformative laws in SA. U cannot trust the market for dispensing justice - the fit (in this case, the skilled/educated/privileged whites) always survive. Profit and justice dont mix! - TheOne |
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tshepo
24/04/2008 14:20
Tshepo, please remember that 80% of white people stated in a referendum in 1991 that we were all for change. Typical in South African way, we voted ourselves OUT of power.
Forget about politicians and their hidden agendas, if you look at average Joe in South Africa, all we want is a bright future for ourselves and our children, irrespective of race, gender or religion. - Martin |
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Transformation HAD Value
24/04/2008 14:21
To my mind, the initial process was required, but things have now transformed far enough through the very strict innitial legislation and it's time for a review. Like anything else in life, what worked yesterday is not necessarily going to work forever without change. - TB |
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Well...
24/04/2008 14:21
Look...Maybe it was needed in the beginning to get some skilled black workers into positions where racist bosses wouldn't have hired.But the current goal seems to be to create every business into a black owned business.Apartheid is gone,it's time to stop making excuses and work.If a black person has better skills now days he will get the job regardless of BEE.The way it should be.You can't put race above skill level if you want true success in a business - Kane |
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How about?????????
24/04/2008 14:21
How about not legislating the land or property rights in hope that things will take a natural turn, where everyone respects someone's property?
I think too much education makes people fail to think rationally, like yourself Limbebe. We need transformation by all means.
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Transformation HAD Value
24/04/2008 14:22
To my mind, the initial process was required, but things have now transformed far enough through the very strict innitial legislation and it's time for a review. Like anything else in life, what worked yesterday is not necessarily going to work forever without change. - TB |
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Bizza
24/04/2008 14:23
did you apply for a job and didn't get it? maybe you just were not good enough and it had nothing to do with your self obsessed skin colour ;) - crazy |
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Transformation HAD Value
24/04/2008 14:24
To my mind, the initial process was required, but things have now transformed far enough through the very strict innitial legislation and it's time for a review. Like anything else in life, what worked yesterday is not necessarily going to work forever without change. - TB |
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The same could be said about apartheid!
24/04/2008 14:25
If it had not been written into the law books, it would have flourished naturally. Just peek into any school yard during break to see what I mean: people are naturally drawn to their own kind. Soort soek soort! - CT Boykie |
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A logical article, but.....
24/04/2008 14:26
The unwashed masses are always going to support transformation legislation, no matter what. I will always work against such legislation & undermine it, no matter what. - Cynical |
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Bizza ;)
24/04/2008 14:26
are you one the people that cant get anywhere without AA and government support? Shame, Im sorry. I really hope life gets better for you soon. - deb |
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A bit naive
24/04/2008 14:26
I respect your views, but sadly are a bit out of context. If everything happens voluntarily, why did the Nats forced the protection of white civil servants and property owners durin the negotiations? When the West offer aid to poor countries, thestate the conditions for offring such. This is in the same spiritas transformative laws in SA. U cannot trust the market for dispensing justice - the fit (in this case, the skilled/educated/privileged whites) always survive. Profit and justice dont mix! - TheOne |
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Half Right
24/04/2008 14:26
I don't think attitudes would have changed as quickly as they have without legislation. However, I think some of the draconian legislation has run its course. The youth who were born in the "new" South Africa should be treated as equals. I think alot of the reasons for the upsurge in racism at schools and campuses of late has to do with the fact that young white students feel they are paying for someone else's sins. The oppressors of the past are on their deathbeds - let discrimination die too! - Joe |
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"Mugabe went nuts" tshepo?
24/04/2008 14:27
He was born a racist,paranoid nutcase and it has just gotten worse with age.(PS,sorry about the misunderstanding earlier,I need new specs it would seem). - The Truth |
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shame.
24/04/2008 14:28
Because of previous regime other people mindset still misjudge transformation.they still classify their former white manager as their bosses even if they see a new black boss.really their mind is damaged. - Bethuel |
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A bit naive
24/04/2008 14:28
I respect your views, but sadly are a bit out of context. If everything happens voluntarily, why did the Nats forced the protection of white civil servants and property owners durin the negotiations? When the West offer aid to poor countries, thestate the conditions for offring such. This is in the same spiritas transformative laws in SA. U cannot trust the market for dispensing justice - the fit (in this case, the skilled/educated/privileged whites) always survive. Profit and justice dont mix! - TheOne |
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Tshepo
24/04/2008 14:28
Aw man you went and ruined it now! Yes we did naturally decide to abolish apartheid, yes we did vote for change, yes we want transformation, yes we want to all live together side by side, just stop it now and start being constructive. How is this constant white bashing working for you? - Point Blank |
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shame.
24/04/2008 14:28
Because of previous regime other people mindset still misjudge transformation.they still classify their former white manager as their bosses even if they see a new black boss.really their mind is damaged. - Bethuel |
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@ kumalo
24/04/2008 14:32
Dude, you are confused if you think white people had 90% of the country's wealth 350 years ago??? I am only to happy to share what little I have, and trust me it's a little... no accumalated wealth here, never had never will. - Point Blank |
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@crazy
24/04/2008 14:33
...but I did not mention my skin colour. And for your info, I am better that most whites with 20-30 years 'experience' of drinking coffee, watching the clock and contribute ZERO ideas in meetings at work. - bizza |
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Transformation can only be temporary
24/04/2008 14:34
The world is not going to slow down for us to catch up, we must run faster. That's why it MUST be temporary. At the moment it is perpetual which is causing the conflict which we see in these pages. We needed legislated transformation / AA coupled with massive education (which hasn't happened) for it to work. And there has to be an end. Its nearly 15 years now, it can't go on for much longer before it becomes unconstitutional as a result of perpetual nature. - Zoo Keeper |
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Re: Bizza
24/04/2008 14:34
I still adhere to Steve Biko's Philosophy hence he encouraged us to do things ourselves and not rely on hand-outs. I still believe that if the government is serious about socio-economic transformation then we should be seeing more Blacks getting distinctions in matric than Whites and Indians, let's be fair, without proper education, we will still be shouting AA and BEE for a long time. Mad Bob need to be commended for giving his people good education, hence they occupy most positions in SA. - Libembe |
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BEE reflections
24/04/2008 14:36
I Agree - aside from the obvious reason I dislike BEE (I'm white), is that it does the following a) makes qualified intelligent black employees look like they were done a favour and b) makes white people think all black employees are there only due to skin. Those are 2 unhealthy views and quite understandable too unfortunately, due to the implementation/social engineering/abuse by government. - AJ |
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Tshepo wake up FFS
24/04/2008 14:37
Tshepo your intolerance is clouding your reality pal. More than 80% of the country voted against aparthied, but lets not let the facts get in the way of your hatred. - Nick |
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Great
24/04/2008 14:38
I love your analysis, it is great to have a diffent point of view from the masses.Nevertheless, be very wary of what you say.For me the policies are not there to force anyone but they play a facilitative role in the smooth implementation of transformation. Moreover give HISTORICALLY DISADVANTAGED people a sense of ownership in the market you're talking about. I bet you that you'll understand their neccessity when you are denied a job because you're not Afrikaans speaking? - Molehe Wesi |
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Yeah right!
24/04/2008 14:39
Like transformation would have happened automatically after more that 300 years of oppression. You smoked a wrong weed this morning. We need legislation to implement policies. Who said international investors are not racist? I think you are bored. It is best to put your lips together, if you have nothing concrete to say. - KMK |
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Deluded
24/04/2008 14:41
Libembe , You are deluded my friend. Do you think if there was no legislation you even get a sniff at a white company. Get real. Although there are issues with the current legislation it would be naive to think that social re-engineering and economic emancipation can happen all by itself. Reality and the ecomomic theory are two different things. - TEbzano |
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Kumalo
24/04/2008 14:41
When apartheid ended, did you really expect a company to take any black person out of the bush and shove him into the boardroom. No, you silly man. By the way, think about how a minority group (whites) ruled this country for more than 350 years? Strength vs Weakness? - helene |
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Helen
24/04/2008 14:43
Tshepo is right, the current democratic environment where blaks are ruling was never envisaged nor anticipated by whites - even De Klerk. During the referendum, many whites thought that voting yes for "power-sharing" meant whites dispening favours to blacks like they did with Indian and Colourds during the Tricameral parliament, under white terms. If whites voted for partheid to end, why did the majority of them stockpiled food on the eve of elections? How can they fear what the voted for? - TheOne |
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The US delaration of independence says it all - AA/BEE and "Transformation" are the same as Apartheid.
24/04/2008 14:44
"WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government" - Alan |
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Helen
24/04/2008 14:44
Tshepo is right, the current democratic environment where blaks are ruling was never envisaged nor anticipated by whites - even De Klerk. During the referendum, many whites thought that voting yes for "power-sharing" meant whites dispening favours to blacks like they did with Indian and Colourds during the Tricameral parliament, under white terms. If whites voted for partheid to end, why did the majority of them stockpiled food on the eve of elections? How can they fear what the voted for? - TheOne |
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VIVA THE SCRAPPING VIVA
24/04/2008 14:45
Get rid of AA and BEE and transformation..
Maybe then this country will get out of the dark africa slide its in.. - Mark |
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!!!!!
24/04/2008 14:45
AA is defiantely needed or was needed in this country, without it there probally would have been civil war, however it still gets implemented in the wrong way and no disrspect to Black people but there are people getting appointed into positions they cannot handle or even don't care to handle properly, which really does explain the lack of service delivery in this country such as education & health care and others. There still must be a elimant of someone wanted and earning the position! - wb |
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I dont know
24/04/2008 14:49
I'll be honest, BEE has clearly not benifitted those that it was meant to benefit, but to suggest that had we sat back and adopted a "things will work themselves out" approach is niaeve. That argument suggests if we wanted apartheid to change, for instance, then we merely had to sit back and eventually things would have changed. Surely people dont change unless they are forced change. - Common Sense |
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Libembe
24/04/2008 14:49
Yes, that included emancipating ourselves from mental slavery! The truth is, we need to shift 400 yrs of selective wealth creation. Eventually, skills and wealth need to remain with the 'natives'. - Bizza |
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Free
24/04/2008 14:49
Thats what transformations stand for....we want all for free..I dont want to work for I, and what happens when anyone gets something for free...they do look after it, appreciate it. Look at our country, its a big crime F-up. Lets continue to become a Zim.....Then we will se who needs to fix it. - JB |
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AA
24/04/2008 14:56
It's very bad, seen first hand = white male CV received = dustbin, it's even joked about amongst the brothas and the sistas. - Ruthie |
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Huh?! - TheOne
24/04/2008 14:58
Stockpile food on the eve of elections? Who did that? No one I know of did that! - Andrew |
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Transformation a slap in the face of Black people
24/04/2008 14:58
It is a fact that AA / EE / BEE assumes that black people do not have the competency and intelligence to make it on their own. This is WRONG and UNFAIR. I know many black business people that have done incredibly. I agree in most part with Libembe's article that it is time to abolish this practice. Give everyone a fair and equal chance. Lets do it together, because we can. Not because legislation demands it. - Matrix |
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Good article
24/04/2008 14:58
Limbembe.At least you are offering some plausable arguments and possible solutions.It is easy to critisize but not easy to offer a better alternative.You have attempted to explore some possiblities.I would also like to direct you to the article in Fin 24 about what the dep prez. says about "bringing in the foreigners because we dont have time to train people" for our serious skills shortage.So much for transformation working by law. - psycobabble |
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Age old question
24/04/2008 14:59
A little off the subject and going way back. How did whites (minority) control a country and rule over blacks (majority) for more than 300 years? Not looking for an argument, just curious. Suppose I'll have to study some history books to find the answer ;) - dhv |
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Lets Face Facts
24/04/2008 15:07
"Affirmative Action" is just another word for "Apartheid?- so much for reconciliation of the races. Education, as always is the key ? but this will only correct things long term. Interestingly 14 years after free elections (more than enough time for every pre-school child to have completed school) we have a lower standard of education than in 1994?? Have we lowered the standards to try and fast track ?AA? candidates? I agree ? AA should now be dropped! - Dave |
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To Helen, May God have mercy on you!!!
24/04/2008 15:07
It is still gonna be while for SA to move forward, while there Racists like you who still think hatred, greed and dehumanization of black people for centuries is a sign of the strenght of the whitemen.I hope you are proud of yourself. To many black people apartheid was no joke. - kumalo |
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WRONG people to comment
24/04/2008 15:07
You know, its silly ANY of us trying to deliver any meaningful comments. ALL of us are priviledged. All of us here, are in the top 1% of South Africans. Pity the people that need to comment, dont have access to the internets. - Sinudeity |
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Best Transformation tool....
24/04/2008 15:07
Quality education that can be used in the real world for our children. Confidence and self-reliance is the best empowerment you can give to people - Olivia |
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Not working.
24/04/2008 15:08
Its not working for us and in the long run it will not be working for you as you can perceive all around you! ("Not working" - Sic word choice) - Lucas |
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Historically disadvantaged people overwhelmingly
24/04/2008 15:09
support EE, EO and AA legislation. Thus, Libembe you are either in the minority or are an imposter (not a black African). These policies must remain in place until the wrongs of opression have been redressed. In my field I have already witnessed remarkable successes from the implimentation of these policies - saliem |
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