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@ major problems in SA
15/05/2008 11:36
We have 2 major problems facing us in SA. 1 Education 2. Crime and yet the two lowest paid industries are the very people we rely on to 'fix' these problems....go figure - charmaine |
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Deaths in Police Detention: These are the Facts
15/05/2008 11:42
One of the most widely publicized criticisms of the Apartheid government was the number of detainees who would die in detention. The numbers, we were told, were indicative of an evil regime bent on murder.
Well. I don?t know if all that was true, but, for argument?s sake, let?s say that it was. Let?s say that the Old South African police were manned by murderous psychopaths, just for the sake of argument.
So then, we would presume that with them having been driven out, things such as deaths in in detention would drop dramatically. Right?
Wrong. The statistics of the numbers of deaths in detention in the hands of the New South African police make the old regime look like kids! - Rob |
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Deaths in Police Detention: These are the Facts 2
15/05/2008 11:45
- There were 170 deaths in detention in 1992 (pre ANC takeover);
- In 2005, there were 714 deaths in detention. (Source)
Of the 714 recorded deaths, 380 people were killed through police actions, according to the Independent Complaints Directorate (ICD). Gauteng led the way with the highest number of deaths in police custody with 75 people dying while in detention. The province was followed by KwaZulu-Natal, Western Cape and Eastern Cape with 58, 41 and 40 people respectively dying while in custody of the police.
Now, if the Old South African Police were the evil psychopaths that they are made out to be, I wonder what this makes the New South African Police?
According to the Human Rights Watch and the Centre for the Study of Violence, the police Death in Detention ?scoreboard? looks like this: - Rob |
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And I suppose
15/05/2008 11:46
you were totally innocent....??? Ja well ....it's funny how only trouble makers are always innocent, the baddies complain about this, the rest of us wish the cops could be harsher. Go ahead and sue, 1996, more than sometime ago, get a life. - polokwanejohn |
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Eish the SAPS...
15/05/2008 11:47
the staff from certain police stations think that they may speak to you anyway they please. I have had the experience of being a witness in a MVA where an inspector called me about a week or two ago to be in court as witness to incident on 13 May. I was promised documentation which I am still waiting for and I was shouted at for not being aware of said court date - Anne |
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Hey Arthur.....
15/05/2008 11:47
I so agree with you. I was "LOCKED UP" for accidently breaking a small window at the Randburg waterfront charge office. Welcome to a Police State, where the cops KNOW they ARE above the law. Don't get me wrong. There are a small number of police who do do good, as for the rest...a bunch of fat overweight pigs who pray on the weaker people and hide behind the badge. Sorry to hear of your experience. - Badger |
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@Jackie Selebi
15/05/2008 11:51
SAPS 'full of criminals'the statistics in this article are shameful to say the least. I teach my children to never ever speak to a policeman because they are BAD. If we have a problem, we call on the security companies, NEVER the police. - mamoelatelo |
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Mmmm !!Sound like a tale from....
15/05/2008 11:52
a personal expirience that needed to be shared with other victims of law enforcement.The problem here is that,we will want to argue about police not doing or overdoing their tasks at hand whatever the case may be!You've failed to let us in about that right to make a call or was it also violated?If that was also the case then..don't let the PoPo get away with it for future ref.But for those who'll wanna mess around with cops especially under the influence of some Lager!be afraid.. be very afraid! - Les-Maada |
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police brutality
15/05/2008 11:53
Lets not forget,according to some people what happened in stellenbosch was their own fault,the police in this country are a bunch of cowards,who can only pick on defenseless woman,what heppened in stellenbosch was nothing more than police sitting around having nothing to do - creech |
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Uniforms..
15/05/2008 11:53
I think that "uniformed" occupations attract more than their fair share of bullies. They can get away with beating up on people only because they wear a uniform and can hide behind it. It's thuggery, pure and simple. - Jann |
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Policeforce corrupt
15/05/2008 11:56
Our home has been robbed 3 times in the last 8 months. The security guards from a security company, who were supposed to guard the complex were the culprits all 3 times(they were caught redhanded)!! They admitted to having "assistance" from the police. Now where do we go? The recovered goods, had to be taken to the SAPS in order to get the case number, which we need in order to claim from insurance. What is the answer? Its looks like taking the law into your own hands is all thats left.. - Sister |
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Cops a law unto themselves?
15/05/2008 12:01
I have a solution, fire the Minister of Safety and Security and get someone who has an idea of what should be done, our Commissioner well thats another story.
Some of them are still programmed into the apartheid mentallity that you see a black man, he is up to no good especially if a white person called and complained. Frankly I do not have respect for our police but respect the law very much. They are sometimes a joke but one should mention that ' NOT ALL OF THEM'. Some are dedicated. - Ngwana |
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Police frustration
15/05/2008 12:02
I also understand how frustrated the police must be. They risk theire lives doing what they do, and then they see the murderers/rapists they arrested being released on bail! - I think once we have a functioning justice system, that actually PUNISHES people, a lot of frustration would go away, and police would chill out. - Juan |
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For the People agianst the People?
15/05/2008 12:02
To serve and protect the govt.Arthur, one way or another the treatment you recieved at the hands of the saps is no surprise.On the other side of the coin these cops are people just like us.The difference is that they are so hardened and desinsitised by having to deal with so much unbelievable crime that one can expect heavy handedness .Their needs for humanisation are not met by their employers. - psycobabble |
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I agree with Arthur.
15/05/2008 12:13
I was arrested for "assault", only for the case to be thrown out five months later and R17k poorer. Although we report cases of burglary and theft in my area, the police never bother to investigate, however were quick to arrest an innocent law abiding and tax paying citizen whom they knew is nothing near being criminal. They were happy that they recorded another arrest, not giving a damn if they arrested an innocent man. I spent a night with common criminals who committed same crime (hi-jack) whilst on bail. One of the guys was out on two different bails for the same crime and was given bail the same day as me. How do you explain that? - Libembe |
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Do nothing...
15/05/2008 12:13
Come on people, don't be typically South African. Use your voice and lay complaints, don't come 10 years later and tell us your sob stories, you have avenues you can explore, legal ones at that... I bet when you stressed at work you remain calm and never shout? Yeah right!! - Point Blank |
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Rights not read to me 2
15/05/2008 12:15
No rights were read and at 08h00 the next morning we were told we could leave and were given our belts , shoelaces and a warning on suspicion of theft. I don't trust them will never ask their help and think they deserve the salaries they get - PIGS !!! - Chopstick |
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Jeppe Police
15/05/2008 12:17
Couldn't agree with you more, I too was arrested for asking cops not to beat an illegal immigrant while they were arresting him. Guys there beat up others as well, made my handcuffs so tight that it cut off circulation to my fingers and hands.
Cost me R5000 in legal fees to get released.
These guys are lawless. - Masood |
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Its not far from hitting the fan
15/05/2008 12:21
Fisrtly our cops get paid nothing. That explaines why they corrupt.Small percentage of our cops wanted to become cops they just took it beacuse its a job.Goverment doesnt care because crime does not affect them so there is no problem. We have huge unemployment why not work these people into SAPS,and other goverment instatutions , its a win win for both , I think thats a start - bongani |
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@ Juan
15/05/2008 12:27
"..once we have a functioning justice system, that actually PUNISHES people.." That will never happen as the criminals have more rights than ordinary people. Sending someone to prison is definitely not a detterant for our criminals, as most are from informal settlements and the conditions in prison is the same(sometimes better) than settlement life. - kaballas |
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Charmaine, you forgot No 3, Healthcare
15/05/2008 12:29
Charmaine is correct, but there is an equally important third pillar in any successful society, healthcare. In South Africa we score 0 out of 3. Private schools, hospitals and security are the huge industries that have grown from these failuress, but they are only addressing the symptoms. - AJC |
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Our Cops
15/05/2008 12:32
Should be paid a decent salary and they should use the same force the cops in the states. if you are not a criminal then you have nothing to worry about. - charlie |
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I know......
15/05/2008 12:36
Police nowadays are just so ... dissapointing and embarasing. I had a situation where i was involved in an accident on the N4 to Rustenburg. I called them, they asked me if anyone was injured/dead then i said no. Then they told me that they didn't have enough cars to come there. And that there more serious accidents they had to attend to because there were fatalities. I was disappointed in the SAPS badly. I thought people were bringing up false stories. - Ntswa ya Teng |
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To Les-Maada
15/05/2008 12:37
In most cases you will only be allowed to make a call once your case has been allocated an investigating officer (that is; a day later). Being 100% sober (I don't take liquor at all nor do my friend) the charges were a serious surprise to me. By the way, a year after I launched my legal action, the same Superintendent laid a charge of crimen injuria (criminal defamation) against me. The case is still on the roll. - Arthur |
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Innocence
15/05/2008 12:38
Everyone is innocent, you can catch a person red-handed and they will protest their innocence to the highest court hoping that along the way the arresting/ investigating officer or witness will not be able to show up for court and the case will be dismissed. Police have a stressful job, if you give them lip; you need to be prepared to take the consequences. They would rather not arrest you for petty nonsense as it involves a lot of paperwork. - Former policeman |
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Police Work
15/05/2008 12:42
Fortunately we have a glut of self proclaimed experts on police work to tell the police how to do their jobs. - veritas |
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Eish SAPS
15/05/2008 12:42
Generally speaking SA's police are ill trained, it's even hard for them to collect facts when taking a statement. Imagine what happens when they have to deal with complex cases. As for brutality, if you want to avoid it - never speak back at cops, be polite even when they are being unreasonable. - Jusjazz |
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SAPS
15/05/2008 12:50
It seems nothing has changed since Apartheid. This is the result of poor training and recruitment. I wonder when this will eventually be corrected. - Pangea |
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Police brutality
15/05/2008 12:51
I know the superintendent who did that, around that time(1996), He once arrested me for "nothing". He said to me, he wants to teach me a lesson, he will arrest me for nothing and no one will do anything about it. To my suprise even today he still work for the same police station. - TeeGee |
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@Kaballas
15/05/2008 12:53
You're so right!! - That is WHY we see vigilante justice on the rise. I've also noticed that police 'investigate' vigilante justice, but no-one ever gets arrested. I've heard (from a policeman himself) that they secretly are in favour of these groups, and even see them as helpful in combatting (and REALLY punishing) criminals! - Juan |
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complainers
15/05/2008 12:53
its agan the same poeple complaning about how the new goverment is mesing everything. you all want to go back to aparthide. stop moaning at these hard working poeple who keep us happy. go home to overseas if you dont like it here. - Jabu |
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convenient stats
15/05/2008 12:54
Rob, please quote stats for 1988 and not 1992 if you want to compare the old and the new South Africa. - dini |
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Understand your view
15/05/2008 12:56
Arthur, whilst I understand your view of things & would also be spitting mad if that had happened to me & I was innocent. However I do feel for some of the police as their frustrations are extremely high. If they bring down a crimanal they are being excessively brutal, if they don't catch the idiot then "where are police when they are needed". These guys / ladies don't seem to be able to do anything right. I'm sorry for your experience, it was wrong but give the police a little slack as well. - Copper |
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Like turkeys waiting for Christmas!
15/05/2008 13:02
Does anybody think things will get better? Uh-uh, everybody thinks things will only get worse! We sit like turkeys waiting for Christmas! - TC |
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Same story
15/05/2008 13:05
Got arrested for trying to stop 2 guy's watching a young couple make out in a car when I was walking past in a busy car park. Once they said they were cops (plain clothes)I wanted to see there badge and got arrested for drunk in public and locked up for the night. They told me I had a bad attitude towards black police officers and had to sign admission of guilt or they would not let me out the cells. No phone call allowed, my family was worried sick until I was realesed in the morning. - 2minds |
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Locked up
15/05/2008 13:09
Eight of my friends and I were locked up by a bunch of idiot cops from Randburd police station for apparently "Gambling Illegally" !. They burst in with those huge weapons etc and cable tied us all. They searched the entire place including us and found no cash whatsoever..only a bunch of worthless chips. They still claim that its illegal gambling.. We were playing a social game of poker amongst friends. They were very arrogant with us in the station and even denied us a right to a phone call.. - nicky |
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New law
15/05/2008 13:10
What a pity we can't have a law that outlaws being as stupid as Polokwanejohn seems to be, unless it's due to being retarded. Then we could shoot them on sight as per our illustrious minister's statement. Polokwanejohn, if you actually have some facts to back up your ranting, please present them and actually make an argument. - CTheB |
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Train and pay decently
15/05/2008 13:10
It is fairly obvious that if you want someone to do their jobs properly you need to keep their skills honed and pay them decently for the work they do. Our police live harsh lives as a result of what they must deal with and see on a regular basis, and because they are under staffed, under paid, ill-trained, and painfully disrespected they no doubt become frustrated or angry. There IS enough money to pay them more, and there are skills to be learned from other countries. Lets encourage our police who do well and fire those who take advantage of their uniform. - Goodness Gracious |
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Death Penalty
15/05/2008 13:12
Bring back the death penalty for murder and rape!!! - Denver Makaba |
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Leave our Police Force ALONE
15/05/2008 13:15
Everytime the police are doing something about crime, we hear statements such as 'police brutality'. The whole country is at war against crime. In any war there will always be innocent victims. Stop whining and let our police force do its job. Your responsibility as an ordinary citizen is to ensure that you assit the police in catching criminals and also to cooperate with them so that you don't have to play victim when they mishandle you. - Mlungisi |
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Point Blank, reality doesn't work that way
15/05/2008 13:15
Me and a female friend were the target of aggressive racist threats/abuse by a cop in a police station. Problem is that cop knows where she lives (as we were reporting something), and the whole 'system' protects him, not us. Let's see you lay complaints against someone who knows where your friend lives, is much bigger than her, has a gun, and will gladly come kill her. Yet you stand there hurling your moral outrage at the VICTIMS!? That is sick. One day you'll learn about real life. - David |
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You cannot complain.
15/05/2008 13:18
To try and complain means you gonna end up with a world of legal fees and no results until they throw the case out. The cop simply will not rock up to the court and says he had to be on duty, until the case is eventually thrown out of court. This is a normal tactic and any serious offence against a cop will result in the documents being lost. gauranteed, for non publicised hearings. corruption, why bother? it's frustrating but what can you do? I tried flipping the bird...........I do feel better. - 2minds |
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Thats why
15/05/2008 13:18
we need the scorpions, to take the SAPD by the nuts and lock their corrupt asses away. - JB |
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Correction
15/05/2008 13:21
The incident happened in 2006 NOT 1996. - Arthur Maisela |
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RE:Arthur
15/05/2008 13:22
Most crimen injuria cases gets thrown out for lack of ground or a warning depending on circumstances.In ya case like u've said..u did not nor take alcohol & if u did, alcohol tests will be required to prove the police case, other than that...sue the handcuffs out of their hips!! - Les-Maada |
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Blaming everyone but the perpetrators
15/05/2008 13:28
Point Blank blames the victims for just 'moaning' instead of 'doing something about it'. Charmaine/bongani and others blame it on 'poor pay' (makes no sense, as brutality doesn't bring in income!). Jusjazz/Pangea blame poor training and recruitment (come on, you need the right "training" to know you don't beat people up for nothing?) Can we PLEASE hold adults responsible for their own, deliberate horrific actions? - Joe |
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The other side.
15/05/2008 13:35
Yes, some cops are bad apples. Have any of the writers spent time with the S.A.P.S.while they are on duty? Stand and listen to the public verbally abuse them and swear at them? Then hear them get told that the particular individuals tax pays their salary? Remember cops also pay tax. I do not work for the S.A.P.S. but am an activelly involved citizen at my local Police Station. At least this way when things do get out of hand I have first hand information not rehashed stories of terror. - John |
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they should be making friends
15/05/2008 13:52
with the violent nature of crime they should be wanting decent people on their side, i saw cops arrest squatter dwellers on several occasions. these R50 if that a day workers can't afford the R100 or whatever fine for the petty crimes committed and the truth is that the poor are the support for the ANC government and should be treated with more respect. they're just plain nasty and should try to change their attitudes, probably has to come from the top though, maybe selebi should get involved - subs |
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Follow the "leader" #1
15/05/2008 14:08
Arthur:
your comment "New recruits joining the SAPS would obviously deem conduct of this nature acceptable as they look up to their seniors. How do you expect a constable to do good if his or her 'in-charge' displays such bullish behaviour?"
Just look at the "leaders" in question: Min of Safety and Security, Charlie Nkwackula, who lies to his superiors and gets away with it (about how the FCA was on track)
- Bodie |
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Follow the "leader" #2
15/05/2008 14:12
The Nat Comm Jackie (the connection) Selebi and his underworld "friends."
Jacob Zuma with his Arms scandal and recent "what is a crook?" mentality, to say nothing of his rape trial.
The Pres and his involvement" with the above Arms Scandal.
Tony (the merc) Yengeni and his "parole"
The Travelgate coverup - the ARV fiasco ....
Which leaders were you talking about again?
- Bodie |
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