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You are not the only ones
26/06/2008 08:39
I am a "coloured" Scotsman who arrived in SA in 1982. I also suffered under the Rockspiders. Can I now also benefit from BEE? - Kennuf |
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Settlers
26/06/2008 08:40
Hey my china, you are settlers just like us whities and none of us are wanted here...
And also the current regime doesn't want to share the spoils, they want to keep it for their own colour.
Also what happens to a chinese immigrant who bribes the government and gets SA citizenship can they walk straight into a lekker cushy BEE job?
If so that certainly ain't fair... - KM |
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Not welcomed
26/06/2008 08:42
If you are not black, then you are not welcomed in Africa. The current ANC government is doing exactly what the Apartheid government did. ANC fought for power and wealth, they did not fight for your freedom. They dont care about you and dont want you here. Who ever said that blacks were innocent during the so-called struggle. They murdered many people, both black and white. - dhv |
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Tragic when the truth comes out
26/06/2008 08:47
I think you're pretty much spot on there Dion. There seems to be a view that somehow there was only one type of suffering. There were many shades of grey and nobody is special in the tragic story of our past. The cynic in me says its all part of the "suffering" mentality. Heck, just see previous postings where there is a school of thought that only black students have no money and must get student loans! Always an excuse somewhere, the Chinese are also about to become one. Good on the judge - Zoo Keeper |
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ANC Racists
26/06/2008 08:50
Another fine example at the sheer and mounting arrogance of the ANC. If you are not an ANC member your welcome in South Africa is slowly coming to an end. The ANC are turning into antoher ZANU-PF. The fact that they blurt out racist and arrogant statements and then refuse to either apologise or retract shows them for who they are. Please people use your vote next year to at least remove absolute power from the ANC!! - Point Blank |
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well!!!!!
26/06/2008 08:51
Okay, chinese we marginalized but where they involved in the struggle like Indians,coloureds and Blacks. Please inform us? - hola |
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So embarrassed
26/06/2008 08:53
as a black South African I would like to express my extreme embarrassment at the utterances of the Labour Minister. I don't think he can claim to speak for anyone other than himself - his stupid, racist utterances were completely unbecoming of someone in office. Take heart in the fact that he will not be there much longer... - VG |
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AGREE WITH YOU FULLY
26/06/2008 08:53
Well written article Dion. The Words that came out of our Labour minister's mouth was hoffific. What constitutes the mentality of some one so high up on the payroll, to say ridiculous word's like that.
I am assuming the minister has the mentality of a 10 year old. I think the minister is trying to rack up some tv time. - CHRIS |
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Well said
26/06/2008 08:53
Dude when are u going to realize that the goverment only see's Black Africa as PDI, not chinease, not Indian and not coloured. I swear they more race "verskrik" than any Afrikaaner NP / CP person ever was, it really is sad. Also good luck to the Chinease community if they have uplifted themselves and made a success in SA, same goes for the Muslim community, the Jewish community, they need to realy get a life entitlement will never work in the long run, just look at SA today. - Mike N |
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Boo Hoo
26/06/2008 08:59
Ya well... atleast you could go to a school outing, board a bus; your parents were allowed to buy a house, u didnt have to stay in a township or a bantustan, your parents could enter in to a business partnership. i realy cant say that about my parents and the majority of other blacks, who largely still face the same hardships. - Boni |
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A view from a disloyal, soon to be ex S.African
26/06/2008 08:59
Im a white male and soon to be ex S.African.(YAY!!!) but I will comment on the BEE status of Chinese. It is good that they are now AA candidates, because I say replace all the current AA appointments with the Chinese, and I don?t only mean African black, I mean coloured, Indian, white female etc. The Chinese are harder working and have more initiative than our current palookas. I just have one question to the really ambitious Chinese, surely you will not consider working in SA? Any really ambitious person would not even dream about working in this place, and oh yes I am disloyal..and loving it. - Marc |
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Deon Ching
26/06/2008 09:01
Do you seriously want to benefit from BEE? come on man,some of us were at the receiving end of discrimination all the time...but we are working hard instead of waiting for BEE to come to us,I mean what the hell. any person that can access and write this kind of article should not be allowed to benefit for BEE...BEE should really be for the poor of the poorest...Shame of you chief for seeking to be empowered while you can do it yourself...Chinese were never disempowered in the apartheid regime, they studied at the model c schools and Bantu education never affected them, therefore why would the Chinese want to benefit from BEE?talk about the love of money? - Kolobe |
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Phobia
26/06/2008 09:02
What the Minister and people like her fear, is not the Chinese..or any other race, but rather they fear people or cultures with work ethic - people who are prepared to knuckle down and work for a better life. Such people are a threat to SA indiginous work force, as many of them choose not to work hard to achieve, hence the necessity for BEE and AA. To whom this does not apply, you are excluded from this generalisation. - Sean |
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The whole situation is WRONG!!!
26/06/2008 09:04
RSA Jewish people are also a minority (maybe considdered "white"?) & there are also many other minority groups (Japanese, Taiwanese, etc...) Apartheid was wrong, but so is the racist attitude in the post 1994 era. Prior to 1994 everyone found ways to work together. Japanese, Chinese (not the same) were (& stil are) excelent merchants & have wonderful & unique non-violent cultures. Look at the technologies they develop(ed). Now Gov is creating division between these groups. WHY??? - Matrix |
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Well said
26/06/2008 09:06
Can't agree more with you - thanks for giving the perspective of Chinese South African - Andrew |
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Ever heard of a Chinese SA???
26/06/2008 09:06
the fact still remains that you're chinese, i support the minister and echo his sentiments, a lot of miners were from mozambique, zim, etc during apartheid and they were also affected,but never have we ever had a zimsouth african...oh please, are you a chinese Southafrican or a chinese african, coz there are those who callthemselves europeanafrican , whatever that means. i dont recall living with chinese people in the locations, where were you guys staying during apartheid?? - LW |
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Why "BEE"?
26/06/2008 09:06
Why do they call it "Black Economic Empowerment"? Blacks were not the only people who suffered under Apartheid. The inclusion of the Chinese has already ruffled some racist ANC feathers. I say scrap BEE and adopt a free market system. - James |
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RE: Hola
26/06/2008 09:08
BEE was implemented (however peversely) to correct the injustices of the past, not to line the pockets of people involved in the "Struggle". Tell me, how were you personally involved in the struggle? Maybe throw a stone or two.. get your head out of the clouds and share your pie with your friends - slammin jackson |
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Racist SA
26/06/2008 09:09
Well written, and good points. I understand where you're coming from, and all I can say is, I've given up on this place. An overwhelming number of people of all races in this country remain racist, I don't think it will change any time soon, and not before things have gotten so much worse. Negative thinking on my part I know - but I just feel so... unwelcome. - Jason |
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@KM, sadly agree.
26/06/2008 09:14
I expect that the chinese people started a process that might by followed by other communities. IF this happens, these minority groups will keep the courts and Gov very busy for some time. If all get "recognition" as BEE, then it will ?unite? a new majority. Just think, "white male" community WILL then be a minority & then deserve the same status "2 be fair". What a conundrum. Where are the ANC racists 2 comment on this? - Matrix |
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join the club of the hated minorities
26/06/2008 09:17
The Afrikaners, whites in general, Portugeuse, have all received specific lash-outs from government, and invitations to leave. Now the Chinese.Even Mbeki speaks of blacks in general (even including foreign black leaders in Haiti) as "our people", instead of speaking of his countrymen as "our people".All honest South Africans will gain if SA stops classifying it's citizens. - kwk |
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Finally
26/06/2008 09:21
I am so glad that finally someone has cleared this up for people out there who have taken this decision and made a mockery out of it. I am a "coloured" "coloured" and remember fondly the days I spent in my Chinese Uncle Des' shop growing up. Chinese people were indeed discriminated against during apartheid not in the way I am sure Scotsman was but in a legislated institutionalised way. Fair after all is fair ne! - manci |
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What a strange topic
26/06/2008 09:22
Hard to believe we are debating the status (black or otherwise) of chinese folk when a whole bunch of us were almost killed by gunwielding baboons on the highway lat night. I refer to the metro cops disgraceful actions that turned johannesburg into a war zones. Just goes to show Cops and Criminals in this country are one and the same thing. Call me racist if you like but what I saw last night proved yet again what an utter basket case South Africa is and what utter twats run this country - Stryker |
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Resentment
26/06/2008 09:23
There is a deepseated resentment that you are not dealing with.This move is viewed as sheer economic-opportunism and nothing else.You recall one incident of rascism.Cmon we talk of centuries of rascism,day in-day out.Once again, typically these "dawgs" miss the point. Its got nothing to do with the BEE.We are clear,it doesnt matter what colour,creed or background.You should at least embrace the principle of nationhood and nationbuilding.Why have you continued to seperate yourselves? - Cape Town Kid |
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@hola
26/06/2008 09:23
Bra don't be stupid... what does being part of the struggle have to do with BEE and AA. By your reckoning only those who were in the struggle should benifit from these policies ... wait um ok! - manci |
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Good on the Chinese
26/06/2008 09:26
At least the Chinese stood up for what they believe in and it paid dividends for them. Pity we don't have any Chinese making polcy in SA - we would become a highly productive country and nation and work our way out of povety instead of looking and waiting for hand outs. We have the resources but our productivity and will to improve is seriously lacking. - MickyM |
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Never confuse racial discrimination with economic discrimination
26/06/2008 09:28
BEE was meant to correct the past economic injustices...Chinese were discriminated racially but not economically, they studied in white schools and were allowed to trade freely in south Africa. they were never discriminated racially but not economically, therefore the constitution of SA addresses the discrimination against race and BEE addresses the discrimination and economic empowerment, for the Chinese to claim that they were economically marginalised, perhaps the Chinese should enlighten us on how were they economically marginalised? - Kolobe |
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Hola, don't be a moron!
26/06/2008 09:29
It is this attitude that causes division. There is always an argument - do you wish to start classifying people according to their involvement in the struggle? I'll let you know that the majority of black South Africans did NOTHING all those years to effect change. The "struggle" was "struggeled" by a few radicals and a few fat cats who sat in comfort in countries far, far away from RSA and shot their mouths off. If this is your approach then we need to start classifying blacks according to rules - Tuffy |
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kolobe
26/06/2008 09:30
I have to agree with you buddy,most black south africans think and beleive that they can now just sit back and receive,those are the people that whe need to get rid of,but there are black south africans like you said who don't just sit and wait for hand out's they actually go out and work for what they want,those are the people that makes me beleive that there is indeed a little bit of hope left for this country,well said kolobe!!!!!!! - proud to be white |
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Let's see now...
26/06/2008 09:31
So activists who got shot and wounded are top of the list - next would be how many protest marches did everyone attend? Then we could say how many nights did each person go to sleep without food? See where it is going? Grow a brain please, even if it just a tiny one.... - Tuffy |
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I disagree
26/06/2008 09:33
I disagree with the whole thing of Chinese being included under BEE - they do not fit the category. 2ndly if you were falling under the BEE at least you should have a vein of Ubuntu in you and not treat black people the way you do in your factory shops or like the white people do (ok...some). One bus incodent NOW makes you recall the injustices of the past and you condisdr yourself Black - black people died and did not even have the luxury of riding a bus like the priviledgede YOU!!! - mxhosakazi |
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The looming revolution
26/06/2008 09:34
AA and BEE created an artificial middle class, but does NOTHING for 90% of the poor (black) people. Domestic workers and the unemployed do not have the money to invest in discounted BEE Sasol shares. A revolution is in the making, a civil war. Not white against black, but poor against rich (white or black). So ANC, keep on with your foolish policies and pocket while the gravy train still runs... - Nicholas |
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Yeah Jason, agreed....
26/06/2008 09:37
I wonder how long it wil take humanity to realise that divisions along racial lines have always been there and will always be there no matter how many laws you pass. Its a vicious circle. Let's face it - blacks don't like whites (I think they are mostly envious) and whites don't like blacks (they generally consider blacks inferior). The sooner we stop pretending everybody is the same, the better. Retain respect for people and differences and allow people to be themselves. Leave it at that. - Tuffy |
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Chinese can't be black.
26/06/2008 09:40
I fully agree with the Minister of Labour. One Chinese factory owner used to lock up his black employees in the factory at night. One woman employee even gave birth at a factor while locked up. In Ormonde, one chines family assaulted a black teenage girl who was working for them. After assault they forced their dog to have sexual intercourse with the young girl. Chinese have brought nothing but pain to the black community. - Azania |
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It will never change
26/06/2008 09:41
Deon the government does not want Whites, Chinese, Indians and Coloureds in this country in that order. I would rather take my MSc degree somewhere i'm wanted and safe. - Whitie |
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Previously disadvantaged????
26/06/2008 09:41
As a white person who matriculated at a prestigious non-private school pre 94 all I can say is that we had Chinese kids at school with us from day one (1982). These people lived in the same suburbs as us and not once do I recall them being discriminated against at school for any reason whatsoever. I didn't even know Chinese were classified as "coloured" under apartheid until now. How can Chinese benefit from BEE when they were afforded all the educational opportunites that whites were? - Jeff |
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11 years old.
26/06/2008 09:42
I agree Dion, that @ 11 years old, things that happen to you have a lasting affect. TODAY, how do you tell your 11 year old son that he doesn't make the cricket side because he is not Black. Will this not leave an impact in this young childs future ? - Silver Surfer |
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Treatment? Mxhosakazi
26/06/2008 09:46
Mxhosakazi, despite all that is said and done and injustices performed by all and sundry, no-one treats black people as badly as black people do. Be it governing, begging or whatever. Have a gaze into that mirror. - AJ |
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Chinese
26/06/2008 09:46
Kolobe, great answer, pity most people don't see it this way. The more people they give BEE status the better for all businesses. I still say, make everyone except white (Afr/Eng speaking ) BEE. It will be much easier fro all companies to achieve BEE status and if everyone is BEE, then it is as good as not having BEE in the first place, great how a free market system works! - BigBang |
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when they wanted to own business they had to register the business with a white partner.
26/06/2008 09:52
"when they wanted to own business they had to register the business with a white partner." Wow atleast u could do that whith, did u stay in the township? did u have bantu education?? I dont think so. The problem with this is that every Tom Dick & Hery will claim they are black & they were in the strugle. The minister is right. - Top Cat |
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Where can I find?
26/06/2008 09:57
Is there a job seeker website for Chinese people in SA, I need new BEE people that are willing to work. I will give a Chinese BEE a job any day, want a partnership in the business, we can make this thing work. SA soon to have Mandarin as 13th language! - Great News |
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Ignorance
26/06/2008 09:57
The latest classification of the South African Chinese people has highlighted the ignorance of many South africans. People assume now that all chinese currently living in SA will benefit from BEE and that we (South African Chinese) are part of the movement for Chinese World Domination.
- Oreo |
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Chinese, black... who cares?!
26/06/2008 09:59
The colour of your skin and the way u look is based on where your ancestors settled geographically. Human is human. The apartheid system distinguished between colours. The fact that the new government wants to bring "equality" and privilege to those who were previously disadvantaged based on race means that they too recognise colour. Colour is meaningless. To me, there are poor people and rich people, stupid people and smart people. The focus should be on the poor. Anything else is primitive. - Marty |
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How Black are They
26/06/2008 10:01
It would be an interesting statistic if we can compare the Income per capita of the Chinese community per 1994 and compare it the income per capita of all blacks before the regime change - I am sure that this stat will show you that most Chinese had better access to education, capital and in general a better standard of living than most blacks in RSA an today that still prevails. The Chinese community does not deserve the same level adjustment by benefiting from BEE or AA as they did not had the same level of hardship and suffering imposed during apartheid. How many Chinese children have been shot like dog and killed, how many Chinese father have given up their lives to fight for freedom, how many Chinese mothers have been unjustly imprisoned an kept away from their children ? they do not want to be black as they would not fought for it if there was no BEE. - colin |
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@ hola
26/06/2008 10:02
What about the white people that were involved in the struggle and died along side their black brothers? Or has the ANC propaganda machines forget to tell you that, on purpose? How quickly the ANC are erasing traces of white involvment in the Apartheid struggle! Come now people, think for yourselves!! Admit black racism. Admit the oppressed is becoming the oppressor!! - Point Blank |
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ANC and BEE
26/06/2008 10:06
The ANC is more concerned about ensuring that their "friends" get the top positions, while the majority live in absolute poverty. The statments are also in contradiction of the bill or rights, where no stereotypes may be placed on someone, and where no discrimination based on race may occur. Just a thought? - Robert Ndungane |
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Chinese Township
26/06/2008 10:10
For your info, there is a Chinese township in SA - in Port Elizabeth, with its own school, and ridiculous Japanese street names. Elsewhere, the Chinese population were too small to be feasible for the apartheid government to create a township. - LW |
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@tuffy and manci
26/06/2008 10:10
Obviously you idiots are missing my point. People who got involved in the struggle underwent hardships and decided to do something about it. Chinese stood aside and excluded themselves to changing lifestyle of the disadvantage. And now they want to be advantaged. Its pathetic for someone who went to Model C, with no bantu education to complain. - hola |
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Mxhosakazi
26/06/2008 10:18
You have issues.... My greatgrandmother was forced to learn in English in school, that was straight after the Anglo Boere War. They weren't even allowed to speak Afrikaans during breaks. If they did, they had to wear a sign saying something like "I am stupid, I speak Afrikaans'". Yet we don't use the past (like YOU do) to blame the present on! My point is: Stop living in the past. Remember it, learn from it, but don't use it as an excuse because you're not man enough to get somewhere? - Chantelle |
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yeah well....
26/06/2008 10:19
it seems the only race group not to be included under BEE are the whites. Chinese, coloured, indian, women, and of course blacks... who is left out? what a joke.. But, what i love about the Chinese, is that they actually work bloody hard, and are intelligent capable of making rational decisions (and writing well, as proved by Mr Shing, thank you sir), unlike there 'black' counterparts who do absolutely nothing besides take, eat, ravish and destroy this country, from its citizens to its economy. - Greg |
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Don't let it get to you
26/06/2008 10:20
Just let the stupid man's comments run off your back like water, sit back, relax and have a lovely cup of tea. And where are our comic authors...there is a wonderful book of Do's and Donts here. The pitfalls of being a ANC Minister in SA... Things not to say..How I put my foot into it...Staying on the straight and narrow...Comments by SA Leaders (an uplifting book of fun and laughter)..Comrades of comedy. - Alicia |
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So..
26/06/2008 10:24
Lets analyse who actually does not benefit from BEE due to the idiots from ANC. as stated above, 90% of BLACK people, huh, thats sad. And the white man, except, where there's a will there's a way, thank goodness we don't only complain, but are able to work hard and intelligently, survive, and complain about the mango's at the same time!! What a disgrace ANC is to their heritage and beloved brotherly traditions. See what happens when you do not understand concepts of democracy or capitalism. - Greg |
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Chinese People need to chill
26/06/2008 10:30
These people only did this so they could flood our markets with cheap knock-offs from china! not only will that drag this country further into the mire but they will probably get this scheme and plot to be funded by B.E.E. funds. if that isnt preposterous then i dont know what is! NUFF SAID! - God |
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crying chinese
26/06/2008 10:33
who are you kidding. The chinese have always been a rich proesperous community. Apartheid did not affect them. I know as I had chinese friends, still do. Go pull another chain. Chinese are survivors and exploiters. Who are you trying to convince. They are in poverty in their own country and get rich quickly here. they are just very clever people.Black people have seen this. We are not stupid. - sarahj |
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crying chinese
26/06/2008 10:34
who are you kidding. The chinese have always been a rich proesperous community. Apartheid did not affect them. I know as I had chinese friends, still do. Go pull another chain. Chinese are survivors and exploiters. Who are you trying to convince. They are in poverty in their own country and get rich quickly here. they are just very clever people.Black people have seen this. We are not stupid. - sarahj |
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Chinese not welcome in SA?
26/06/2008 10:39
I am amazed that anyone would want the stigma of "permanently disabled person". The first thing that goes through my mind when faced with an AA appointment is that the person could not make it on merit. Please, let's get away from the myth that this is about correcting the imballances of the past. It's all about who has the whip in hand and who can "skep". If you're not black, you're "out". - hennie |
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Misconception
26/06/2008 10:44
As a SABC (South African Born Chinese) I would like to say my two cents worth. There are about 10000 born and bred Chinese South Africans currently (who should be affected by the BEE decision). In the last ten years there has been an influx of "new" immigrants from Asia- these are the individuals that predominantly own the factories. Please do not put all race groups into 1 category. Its like saying a Xhoso is the same as an African American.
- Chinese South African |
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There is a secret the whole world knows....
26/06/2008 10:49
The rest of the civilised world obviously knows a secret to success, but nobody wants to let the black in on it - or at least that is what they seem to think. No matter what you do you can't keep a good man down, a lazy will, however stay down until you force them to get up and then it will be under protest. - Karen |
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China, you can choose to live...
26/06/2008 10:49
and think in the past like all the bee candidates or you can make a success of life like so many whites who did not benefit 1cent from pre-94. We shall always come out stronger because we live for today and work and plan for tomorrow. - marius |
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LW YOU ARE AN..
26/06/2008 10:52
Idiot too. you are the type that look down on people because of their race, how blind are you? if you are born in SA you are South african, regardless of your heritage. im so angered that we hav to deal with people like you. - Shaun |
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Chinese South Africans and the New Chinese immigrants (1)
26/06/2008 10:52
It seems that some of the people commenting on this forum is lumping all the Chinese people in SA together into a single grouping, just like the "honourable" Minister Mdladlana. Please take note of the differences: a Chinese South African (i.e. a CITIZEN of this country who was previously categorized as "coloured" under the apartheid government), and the recent Chinese immigrants (i.e. from China), who are NOT citizens and for whom therefore the high court ruling does NOT apply. - LW |
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Taiwanese were considered white
26/06/2008 10:54
In yet another example of how race is an invented concept, the apartheid govt legally classified Taiwanese as 'white' and Chinese as 'non-white'. This was done purely for economic and political objectives, as apartheid SA didn't want to trade with communist China. The funny part is that Chinese and Taiwanese are the exact same ethnic group, what most would call 'race'. - Amanda |
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