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Bailouts
17/07/2008 11:16
Sick of it. Crap service, and I can guarantee you the loan will help in paying more board bonuses. We do we have so many incompetent business folks in top positions? - Sinudeity |
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Advertising
17/07/2008 11:21
SAA fulfills the role of advertising South Africa whereever it goes. Yes, we need to insist of it being well run, but we cannot close it in order to save money. At the end of the day, we will end up paying someone for the right to fly out of the country, but will they have the motivation to advertise SA as a destination? - Lvh |
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Again...
17/07/2008 11:22
This is a normal occurance with SAA. How can they not maintain a profit when 1time and Kulula manage to? Coming from the airline industry, their executives and pilots are paid ridiculous salaries - is it not time that these are re-assessed??? Perhaps the basic breakdown of those salaries should be made public - afterall it is our hard earned money paying those inflated costs. - RH |
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Amen
17/07/2008 11:27
..lets hope the Treasury sees thing the same way. Its time for SAA to be privatised. - VG |
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HOW PATHETIC
17/07/2008 11:28
I laugh, appointments must be in line with AA/EE/BEE, yet the very rule that govt made is literally costing them!!!!!!! I have never encountered such arrogance as SAA, it makes me want to puke. But this is happening to all companies, AA/EE is running them down to the ground. My advice to all those non-EE people who work hard; YOU ARE WASTING YOUR EFFORT!!!!!! - Aussie Bound |
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I see a pattern
17/07/2008 11:29
SAA, Eskom, Road Accident Fund, SABC etc etc.
Enough said.... - Gus |
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Francois you're right...
17/07/2008 11:31
and one more thing: I won't travel SAA overseas if i can help it.
Went to London last year, the service was terrible, unfriendly staff, NO LEGROOM AT ALL - and I'm average height of 1.74m, and to cap it off the poor passenger next to me had a broken video - manicm |
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Inefficiency
17/07/2008 11:31
Get rid of the imcompetent deployed cadres. Privatize the airline so that they can either sink or swim. Until that happens they will continue to run to government for tax payers money which squandered again until the cycle starts again. The escom virus strikes again - incompetence - gone |
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Bright sparks at the top
17/07/2008 11:33
I am not surprised.. Company is being run by idiots. For example : as of 25 Oct 2008 the profitable Cape Town to Frankfurt flights will be cancelled. Reason : We need more flights into Africa...... think about it : who are the rich tourists ? The Germans bringing euros... or the illegals from Somalia? - Johan |
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State monopolies
17/07/2008 11:33
It is time to cut the umbelical cord to this over-sized "child". All monopolies - sorry Communists/Trade Unions, but they have to go!!!! - xp |
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R5.7bn bonus
17/07/2008 11:35
No doubt the execs will need a performance bonus / commission for the successful negotiation of the loan. - Carl |
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NOT A LOAN
17/07/2008 11:35
As I understand SAA did not request a loan from Government they requested Government as a shareholder for a Capital injection into the company and in turn Government will receive EQUITY on which government will earn a return in the form of dividends. Currently SAAs had a sound financial performance looking at the last year-end financials and excluding Extraordinary Costs relating to the restructuring of SAA -they did perform well. - colin |
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SAA fails (No monopoly)
17/07/2008 11:35
With competition from 1time and kulula, SAA cannot charge what OTHER government businesses would charge in a monopoly (This includes Eskom/Telkom etc). - Sinudeity |
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SAA Crisis Looming
17/07/2008 11:36
Cash strapped and floundering airlines, world wide is not a new phenomenon. Airlines go bust regularly or gov's are called in to rescue the National Carrier(s). It seems to be that (New SA) management sticking their mits into the honey jar at every turn is acceptable (Eskom ring any bells) and then tax payers must cough up. But beware there is a greater TECHNICAL crisis looming, as skilled engineers leave, meaning at some point airworthiness of aircraft may be affected.FAA is watching closely
. - Sean |
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LVH i dont give a toss
17/07/2008 11:36
if SAA is advertising SA where ever they fly all i care about is getting to my destination. SAA is way over priced i never fly SAA and probably will never fly SAA. The only time i flew SAA was when i worked in government and visited regional sites. Let the airline rather close down they are a useless bunch anyway - terence |
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SAA BEE
17/07/2008 11:37
Another product of "retrenching" of skilled workers because of the colour of their skin and inadequate training of blacks (by the skilled and experienced whites)
blacks its time for u to see that gov policys are ruining our chances of true freedom. of which economic freedom is key.
- fern |
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SAA
17/07/2008 11:40
You've got it wrong dude, they're not asking for a loan, they're asking for a freebie. "Additional share capital" If you can't afford more planes, don't buy more planes. As simple as that. When I worked there, I was asked for a "purchasing report." When I asked what kind of report - fuel, consumables, spares, vendor performance, etc, etc, the answer was just: The VP purchasing is just looking for some reports to manage his business... R8bn worth of purchases, mgd with "some reports"!!!! - KoosS |
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Bias Media Reporting
17/07/2008 11:41
Never read the news with an intention of generating a propaganda, it renders the objective message of the news.SAA requested a one billion rand loan in 2005 and they repaid the loan when they made huge profits in 2006 and 2007, currently SAA made the profit of 125 million but need to expand and capitalize for the 2010 soccer world Cup, every company needs extra direct investments for expansion and so does SAA, the anti-government rhetorics should study the financial statements of SAA, the problem with the media is that they report when SAA requires funding but not when they repay the loans. - Kolobe |
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spot on!
17/07/2008 11:43
khulula.com, did you hear that? it's time to rule. - sdlala |
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@ colin
17/07/2008 11:45
... and how many times have they restructured now....? - AvgJoe |
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SAA
17/07/2008 11:47
I guess when SAA declared profits in the billions last year, they were misquoted again. - ramone |
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Not a Loan but Direct Capital injection
17/07/2008 11:47
Firstly they did not make any loss in the current financial year or previous they made a profit, so they wanted to expand their business and in the process employ more people, government should immediately consider financing this as soon as possible, we want more flights and people should be employed. - Kolobe |
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forsight
17/07/2008 11:50
While not condoning the request, at least they are making it probably with insight into their situation going ahead. If left unattended by 2010 or later the Bill could increase substantially and then we will all be complaining about how sudden or unexpected or exhobatant the costs are or worse the Airline closes along with any reputation it has left and will then want to know why this was never brought up as far back as 2008.We don't need another Eskom. The amount though will need justification. - adrian |
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@Aussie Bound
17/07/2008 11:50
Its wrong for you to blame SAA financial state on BEE/AA. Are you saying that because its a parastatal? If not- can the demise of Nationwide Airline be attributed to BEE/AA? I have a problem with SAA myself but can we please make sure that when we commment we think first?
My problem with SAA is: What happened to their much publicised Turn-Around strategy? Solution: Privatise this thing or consult with Tom Boardman (Nedbank) For a turnaround strategy that has proven to work. - jojo |
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manicm..................
17/07/2008 11:51
Couldn't agree with you more. We got ripped off two years ago for excess baggage. I paid but was gobsmacked to see that the flight was not even a third full. SAA were not even prepared to discuss it............Result, well the annual overseas trip we make is now on Emirates. Air Emirates quality and service are outstanding and the tickets are value for money. Please feel free to read that as much cheaper than SAA. - Gail |
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Crap service.
17/07/2008 11:51
I travel a lot and have flown with SAA several times, so don't even get me started on what a crap airline they are. Maybe if they upped their game and offered friendly effient service like the other airlines, people will fly with them more often. I use to support them purely from a patriotic point of view, but after a while the crappy service was just to much to handle, so I now fly with other airlines instead until SAA can offer me the same good service as the other airlines. - Willem |
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Agree with Gus and Sean
17/07/2008 12:02
If we as taxpayers are expected to bail out Eskom and SAA, then shouldn't we be the shareholders? Instead they get our money and still charge us exorbitant prices. Going to England in September and flying BA. Far better service. - Jann |
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Par for the course
17/07/2008 12:03
I seldom feel so negative, but R5bn for SAA, R640 million loan unpaid at the Land Bank, R500 million graft and fraud in Eastern Cape, tax payer is paying both Mcbride and Zuma's legal fees (R millions). The slide of Zimbabwe did not begin with the land reform programme, it began long before with the same incompetence, mismanagement and institutional kleptocracy we see here!!!!! - Alex |
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Throwing good money after bad
17/07/2008 12:04
Why waste money saving SAA? In a few years the money will be squandered and they will be in the same position again. SAA deserves to go under because they are unprofessional and their in-flight service is grudging at best. - James |
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Clowns
17/07/2008 12:09
This topic will take a turn for the worst. Trust me. You are going to get ego?s floundering on this page telling us where in the world they went to and how many times a day they fly. - navs |
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SAA
17/07/2008 12:12
I need to go to London and Frankfurt in a month. Lufthansa's price is R13,500. SAA want R45,000 and for the London to Frankfurt part I need to go via Johannesburg. That is a 2 hour flight with Lufthansa and 36 hours with SAA.
No wonder all my flying is with anyone except SAA.
- idislikesaa |
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@Kolobe
17/07/2008 12:13
If they repaid their loans,than why O Wise One are they still in the red financially? Perhaps you can tell us why many of their new aircraft are yet to be fully paid off? Where have the billions already given to them gone to (perhaps to help pay for the maintenance of Khaya the fat cat's helicopter and he and his Board members other "luxuries")? - The Truth |
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What do you want ?
17/07/2008 12:17
Yes SAA could be run better if it were privatised.It used to be subsidized employment for Nats it now the same for ANC friends. Even with current fuel prices it could be profitable with the kind of management Comair has but they must then decide where and when to fly. If you want it to bring in tourists then you need a different plan all together. This will mean charging incoming tourists from high spending countries low fares the airline will lose lots but maybe SA will gain. You can't have both - steve |
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Job Creation and Nepotism
17/07/2008 12:18
No correct-thinking government should be involved in commercial enterprise of ANY sort unless it is in the national interest and THAT is very iffy in itself. Taxpayers should not foot the bill for government and para-statal incompetence. The billions spent keeping SAA afloat could be much better spent promoting RSA as a destination other than seeing the occasional SAA plane at Terminal 5 or whatever at Heathrow, Len. Keeping SAA in the sky does not qualify as being in the national interest. - Tuffy |
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Mango
17/07/2008 12:19
SAA funded Mango - which competes with the private airlines. Nationwide goes belly up for various reasons - but SAA (via the taxpayer) keeps Mango flying. Why must I as a taxpayer support SAA, when my taxes could be building schools, etc. ..??? - Joe |
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at Jojo
17/07/2008 12:22
Leave Tom Boardman where he belongs.. right here at Nedbank! :o) - Max |
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Re-look at their fin statements
17/07/2008 12:27
Kolobe, talk about propaganda...SAA have posted a R1.2Bn loss. Yes they have restructuring costs but it is a loss nonetheless.
Anyone who flies SAA knows that it's overpriced, cramped legroom and delivers shocking service. It is a recipe for disaster and no matter what capital injection they receive, SAA will continue its loss spiral until it re-evaluates it image and actually begins to care about its passengers again. - java |
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What about Mango?
17/07/2008 12:29
Nobody mentions that Mango is running at a loss in the attempt to put the likes of Kulula and 1Time out of business.
The moment they fold airfares will become unaffordable again. - observer |
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@kolobe
17/07/2008 12:31
geez wake up man, they have just offered retirement packages etc to get rid of over 2000 staff members, these guys dont know how to run a profitable business, any business can show a profit, even one that is about to close doors, if you leave out your debt. - Marius |
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Kolobe??
17/07/2008 12:33
Kolobe, interesting comments. Especially relating to the "fact" that SAA made huge profits in 2006/2007. Quoting the Engineering News 29/06/07: "In the first half of the 2006/7 financial year, SAA posted a loss of R650-million, while the loss incurred in the second half was just over R200-million." My bother, it is a sad day when we need to make up "facts" such as these to prove how the people in charge are not that incompetent when it comes to spending public money. BTW How's the gravy train? - Neil |
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SAA, you made your bed now lay on it
17/07/2008 12:35
Why should we the hard working, rate paying public have to bail SAA out of their financial woes. SAA, start by retrenching all the unnecessary so called managers, hire competent staff and start offering the paying passenger value for money, especially those who can only fly economy class.That's why I take my business to other airlines, namely 1Time and Kulula. One pays less but the level of service is fantastic, friendly & aircraft are spacious. I used to be a SAA fan but no more, sorry!!!!!!!! - Shelley |
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SAA
17/07/2008 12:36
Oh my tax payers money again to fund an airline which is not a necessity - rather a nice to have. Are we a first world or developing third world country ?? If the Goevernment has 5b to spend on SAA then Mbeki must stop begging for assistance from the G8 - how we want it all !!!!! - MickyM |
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Trouble
17/07/2008 13:08
My business is running lean on cash in these economic times. I have made a loss the last year. I wonder if the bank will give another loan this year. Chanses are they will not. I need to cut my losses, forget about a bonus for myself, and help myself out of this mess, or the other competitors will eat me alive. - Paul |
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Yes they did make a profit.....but
17/07/2008 13:42
Kolobe, you are 100% correct, SAA did post a R125m operating profit, but that exludes a R1.2 BILLION cost to restructure the ailing business. R1.2 billion minus R125 million equals...... erm, lets just call it a R1 billion problem. - @ Kolobe |
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Mango
17/07/2008 13:46
You forgot to mention the R100 M ( or is it more) that SAA gave Mango which has put Nationwide into liquidation. - John |
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Anti SAA
17/07/2008 14:02
Privatise SAA, let us see if these BEE comrades can really run a company succesful, if they can then i suggest they receive millions in bonusess, if not let them sink. I am sure carriers like Virgin, Emmirates etc. would jump at the oppurtunity to expand their African operations, in the event of SAA closing down.
- jean |
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@kolobe
17/07/2008 14:03
SAA didn't make a profit last year, they made a net loss of R883million, Check out http://ww2.flysaa.com/Shared/Downloads/Financials/SAA_annualreport2007.pdf for their report.
Also, they haven't paid off all their loans. If you look at their statements, their were 2 transnet loans in in 2006 which have disappeared this year totalling R8.4 billion. These were converted into shares and not paid off. There is also the question of the new R1.3billion loan on the books - Nico |
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AA, EE, BEE etc.
17/07/2008 14:19
It all realtes to BEE etc. Look at eskom. There is a new CEO appointed, and when the rumours started that a white CEO was to be given the job, Numsa spokeperson Mziwakhe Hlangani started complaining and saying it is a step too far back for transformation. What a load of rubbish. The foremer CEO (BEE appointed) made a mess of eskom, why would they want another BEE failure for eskom. Anyway, the same is happening with SAA. - Crackerjackjack |
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Privatise?
17/07/2008 14:21
SAA IS already privatised! The government owns SAA privately. - Filemon |
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Kolobe
17/07/2008 14:26
I can see by your insert you're an AA/BEE. The only reason SAA boasted such a large profit for that year was they sold off a huge amount of assets, which made them look good on paper, but in actual fact was a farce. Not everyboby out there is an indigenous ignorant idiot like you must be. After the "so called profit the top brass gave themselves all a big bonus. Ever since AA/BEE was introduced into SA, companies have steadily declined. Glad to be rid of incompetent AA/BEE. Happily in NZ. - DAB |
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SAA profits
17/07/2008 14:30
The restructuring cost were once off expenses which will not reoccur in the next or probably the following financial periods to come which will lead to growth an increase of profits for the next financial year - It does look promising for SAA as a company especially taking into account 2010 with the next 2 years which will lead to profits rocketing through the roofs. - colin |
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Poor financial management
17/07/2008 14:36
That is what this is. The same with Eskom, they break even or make a marginal profit/loss in running the enterprises but don't have the vision or understanding that provision must be made for repairs and maintenance, future capital expenditure, etc. FROM the enterprise's normal income. It seems they do not know the difference between financial terms like capital, reserves, cash, etc. "Restructuring expenses" were not provided for by SAA so they must take it into account and thus made a loss!!! - Confucious |
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Analysis? Why should they even exist? What to do?
17/07/2008 14:39
1)Privatise SAA. 2)Gov, Dont let RSA TAX pay for incompetency 3)Rid SAA of corruption, nepotism & criminals (Security service included) 4)SAA for the people? Not affordable national asset yet. 4) Improve service (all dimensions). 5)Get rid of BEE & AA. This will promote healthy competition, competency & service. 6) Retain skilled & competency. Dont retrench them. Results in short term gain, longer term loss. 7)To all RSA citizens, if SAA does not come to the party, DO NOT SUPPORT them... - Matrix |
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@Kolobe, You dont make sense as a socialist.
17/07/2008 14:44
Yesterday your comments indicated that you support marxist kommunism socialism & apposed to imperialism kapitalism etc. Now you defend kapitalistic fundamentals. You seem very confused. Another mess the gov is ultimately responsible for. Why should we pay tax for a business that is draining this country's resources, including capital. Obviously someone is getting something out of the deal. Question is who? I suspect Kolobe & partners are somewhere in the mix or is it 3rd force???? - Matrix |
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Fair play
17/07/2008 14:54
Since SAA had a 125mil profit and the 1.2 billion was not calculated in, is it fair to say that they are doomed if the fuel price rises by 5 cents, yes even 5 cents. They will not be able to carry themselves the following year. For the positive fellow out there, think logically before answering. Yes you are correct that SAA will make a profit by flying to Brazil for the 2010 cup. - KAC |
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How much paid
17/07/2008 15:04
Can someone tell me how much these airhostess/cabin crew earn? they drive very expensive cars and just wonder how much they are been paid, maybe they should cut their salaries, - Lepino |
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Crackerjackjack
17/07/2008 16:24
u are a racist. Your judgement and analysis of issues are corrupted by empty superiority entitlement. Competence or lack thereof, does not reside in one's skin. Competence comes from skill acquisition. - Nkhesani Maluleke |
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Kolobe - proof of BEE/AA in action
17/07/2008 17:01
Kolobe I always suspected it but your amazing financial analaysis kind of reinforces the point made by non AA EE BEE etc folk. I got it lets make you CEO of SAA - you clearly have the financial acumen. - Stryker |
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Privatise
17/07/2008 17:30
The way that Kulula and others have survived against the odds suggests that SA entrepreneurs could do a great job on SAA and thereby vindicate privatisation. However, right now airlines the world over are in deep trouble and some strategic options have to be considered. Perhaps a deeper alliance with other airline/s (including the locals) might help all parties. I also hate SAA's service, but we will look like nana's if we allow SAA to falter. - pete |
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Oh my word
17/07/2008 18:04
You know honestly people like Kolobe do more damage to bright young black professionals than anything or anyone else. Please Kolobe - go do some work - gavin |
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Java, Nico - nailed it.
18/07/2008 04:25
SAA makes a profit of R123 million only if the R1.3bn payed for restructuring is not taken into account,stated in a previous article.Sometimes they still manage to amaze me, who do they think they are fooling.They paid the restructuring cost of R1.3bn, the money is spend,done deal.SAA made a loss of R1.1bn, so far..... - No Guru but can read |
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Inferiority complex
18/07/2008 06:24
is all I read in your comment Nkhesani; and Pete, you say 'but we will look like nana's if we allow SAA to falter' - the phrase 'slamming the door AFTER the horse has bolted springs to mind'. Nana's keep on paying for this crap company. - AJ |
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@Gavin!
18/07/2008 06:54
Buddy I think that's the biggest understatement... EVER!!! :) - Francois |
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CEO
18/07/2008 07:10
Got in on this one a bit late but after messing up Foskor totally (it is now recovering) the SAA CEO is reputed to be a professional golfer - he is never available when you need him, unless it's a social function - word has is that he plays golf almost every day of his life! - swaer |
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