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In Africa Crime does pay
23/07/2008 08:22
Mugabe is in still in power because the world fears he may kill more people if he is charged with crimes against humanity. Kill one person and you are a murdered, kill ten then you are a mass murderer, kill more than 20000 in Mathebeleland and get invited to SA for peace talks... - Dries |
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Well written
23/07/2008 08:23
I agree in full with this artical... Mugabe is IMO the devil himself, hitler reincarnated, the fact that the FREAK is holding HANDS with Mbeki makes me wanna puke repeatedly... because I am unsure if they are gay or if they have hidden agendas. :) I see nothing good coming from this. politics, is the worst thing we humans ever created (almost as bad as the creation of the A bomb, it takes lives and gives almost nothing back! to hell with politicians! - Francois |
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Hostile democracy
23/07/2008 08:24
Pitso, you have raised an interesting point - and you are right, democracy is the loser. - Dave Robbins |
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Despots having a good time in Africa
23/07/2008 08:24
I could agree more with you Pitso on your spot on analysis of this new trend in Africa. It appears to me that from now on we gonna have a situation where incumbent despots are guaranteed a place in government when they lose elections for the sake of "peace" - Tendani |
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Zimbos
23/07/2008 08:25
Pitso, as noble as your article is we still cannot ignore the fact that the situation in Zimbabwe needs resolution. In a negotiated settlement one if not all the parties is bound to be a looser, and in this case it is the MDC as you correctly point out. But the people of Zimbabwe a the real winners at the the end of the day, and i believe we should all leave the elections behind us and concentrate on the future of the Zimbos. - Funnybones |
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Well, we did the same thing
23/07/2008 08:25
" why is it that dictators always manage to secure a comfortable end?" well, I don't know, but we allowed Groot Krokodil to retire in comfort to Knysna. Why? because what we were trying to achieve was more important than one man.If the only way forward for Zim is to leave Bob in peace, well, thats the price the Zimbabweans must pay.Dictators dont happen overnight -they exist where civil society is weak and the Zims can blame only themselves for that. - VG |
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"Hostage democracy"
23/07/2008 08:26
Sounds a lot like terrorism to me. RM used fear to get what he wanted and although I don't normally agree with the things the US and UK do, I completely agree that there should be no negotiations with terrorists! This only empowers them and could ultimately lead to terrorism being used whenever some grumpy "statesman" wants to get his way! Just my thoughts. ;) Later - The Dude |
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Agree with you
23/07/2008 08:29
But Africa with an attitude of leave africa to solve africa`s problems is the the downfall of Africa.Arrogant warlords who use violence to "tame" opposition supporters should be tried and hanged. - fatman |
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Spot on Pitso, again...
23/07/2008 08:30
In my view, Mugabe and friends should be on their way to The Hague right now, to explain to the world why he failed all of us by killing his own people, wrecking an economy and reducing Southern Africa's ability to feed itself by a great messure. - Sceptic |
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War
23/07/2008 08:30
The fact of the matter is that we cannot start a war with Zimbabwe in order to dethrone Mugabe. That will hurt the Zimbos more and the region at large. The solution at our disposal at the present moment is the best possible one, and for the sake of all concerned i just hope Mugabe is managed out peace fully without any further atrocities for the Zimbabwean people. - Funnybones |
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SUPPORTING DEMOCRACY
23/07/2008 08:31
it is problematic when people always have negative comments to give without any better solution. If what is happening in Zim is not better for the ppl of Zim i don't think Morgan would be part of that deal. I hope you are not suggesting that SADC was supposed to go in there and remove Mugabe by force. The presidency of Zim was to be decided by a run-off election because there was no clear winner. We dont know what the current deal will entail. give this process a chance without sounding BRItish. - eugine |
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Great analysis
23/07/2008 08:31
I must say that i get your point,but what has happened is a wonderful things,MBEKI did what he can do to restore peace on this troubled land,and for that we appauld his efforts. - Bokamoso |
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Making a farce of democracy
23/07/2008 08:31
Great article. I think it;s disgusting that the people's votes in Zimbabwe count for so little. This is not a victory by any means, it's just a lessening of a tragic situation. Is this setting the precedent for the rest of Africa? Do our votes no longer carry any weight? If I were Mbeki I wouldn't be patting myself on the back for this, this is a disgrace to all Africans. - Chris |
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Good article
23/07/2008 08:32
In the end, Thabo did not achieve much in Zimbabwe. Mugabe will remain in power, and Tsvangirai may have to concede to being one of Mugabe's puppets. The threat of personal sanctions against Mugabe may have been the reason Nugabe wanted to negotiate (in his favour of course). - James |
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I agree
23/07/2008 08:33
I can't agree more! Either the AU supports warlord-type rulerships, or they're simply so ignorant of the fact that they could quite easily be considered the retards of the planet. Either way they're not fit to do what they do, the AU has certainly failed. I'm an african too, unfortunatly, and I think the AU is a joke, EU wannabe's, just minus intelligence.
- John |
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Pitso
23/07/2008 08:33
Without seeking to patronize, your comments left me with hope and helped me towards reconciliation. After so much one-sided, subjective rhetoric about puppets, comrades and other outdated politispeak my screen was wet with spit. But your objective and intelligent commentary provides fertile common ground for building a mature and sustainable consensus.Thanks Pitso. - Pete |
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Rule by the great unwashed
23/07/2008 08:37
Democracy has less to do with "power by the people" than it has to do with "some people fooling the masses". Zim got what they deserved, because they voted him in time after time. Maybe a lesson for SA? Maybe a populist leader isn't such a bright idea? - Jakes |
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Good points
23/07/2008 08:38
I agree with you fully, Morgan Tsvangarai will kis Monkey Mugabe's feet from now on. And Zimbabwe will not get better (except in the eyes of kolobe and retarded company). I'm glad i'm leaving soon from this joke of a continent to watch it rot while i enjoy the safety of Aus or Europe. - Stinkbug |
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Why vote??
23/07/2008 08:39
As far as the national interest is concerned, there was no reason on earth why Zimbabweans went to great lengths and at great cost to hold two presidential elections in terms of the law on March 29 & June 27 if there was a predetermination by officialdom that only one particular candidate, Mugabe, had to win or else all hell would break loose.To hell with african Democracy, it sucks.
- Zimbo |
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Democracy
23/07/2008 08:39
The MDC did not win the election by a majority decision. Hence a run off election were held subsequent to that. Unfortunately MDC did no take part in the run off elections and obviously Mugabe emerged victorous in the run off. You should be glad that Mugabe is willing to embrace Morgan in the government of national unity for the sake of peace. I praise Mbeki for his mediation role and for his strategic thinking. - Calvin Mkhize |
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exactly
23/07/2008 08:42
On the nail Pitso. I'm concerned about the message to would-be despot/dictators/warlords elsewhere in Africa.It's okay to try your luck. The worst that can happen is you get pressurred into negotiations, with escape-route carrots, after years of enriching yourself.The irony is, on paper, Africa seems very determinded to root out this, with all the peer review meganisms in all.But in the classic test case, it fails to get applied. - kwk |
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Achievement?
23/07/2008 08:44
"......Africans have managed to achieve what the international world could never achieve". "The warlords continue to rule!" Well, you said it yourself. Why are Africans so obsessed with the international world to always compare and compete with them? An inferiority complex maybe? Thank goodness the international world will never achieve what Africans achieve....... - Confucious |
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What Victory
23/07/2008 08:45
I am surprised many people are regarding the signing of the MoU as victory for quiet diplomacy....what rubbish Mbeki underestimates the devil that is Bob. - JESTINA |
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Mugabe's irresponsible holding on
23/07/2008 08:46
If the decision by the AU & SADC (especially Mbeki) has any political message about Mugabe, it is to be found in the adage that when roses are gone, nothing is left but the thorn. Bereft of his disputed rosy appeal and with the vagaries of his old age combining with his arrogance from having been in power for too long, Mugabe has now become an irksome thorn that is hurting not only the soul of the bleeding Zimbabwe but also the majority people of this world. - Zimbo |
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So just maybe...
23/07/2008 08:48
So what you are saying is that the quiet determined African approach has failed and the evil western ideal of democracy, i.e. a leader chosen for the people by the people is possibly not that bad! Not everything African is good and not everything western is bad! - Justin |
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Democracy in Africa
23/07/2008 08:48
We have a long way to go in Africa, I use to think that maybe when the new blood come through the ranks Africa will be better, but somehow I feel very uneasy about our future, look at Sudan, it is heartbreaking that some people have no regard for human lives, we need a new and a fully authoritative International Court!!! - mb |
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Pitso
23/07/2008 08:48
After so much one-sided, subjective rhetoric about puppets, comrades and other outdated politispeak my screen was wet with spit. But your objective and intelligent commentary provides fertile common ground for building a mature and sustainable consensus.Thanks Pitso. - Pete |
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Democracy
23/07/2008 08:50
Does Mugabe know what democracy means:- the right to a form of government in which power is invested in the people as a whole, usually exercised on their behalf by elected representatives. This power is not being invested in the people. They are being bliksemed to elect representatives not of their choice. So there is no democracy. Mugabe supports communism: any system of government in which a single, usually totalitarian, party holds power, and the state controls the economy (one party-state). - Jeni |
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What democracy, Calvin?
23/07/2008 08:50
Morgan was pushed into a corner. Do you think he wanted things to turn out this way - working under Mugabe? - James |
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Calvin
23/07/2008 08:57
No Calvin, Mugabe did not win, not by even the wildest stretch of the imagination. All he did was remove his opposition so he became the default choice. It was a case of either put your vote in this box or we will put you in that box. That is not democracy and your thinking insults the struggles of the past century. I think Morgan is the big one here - showing great maturity to embrace his enemy and consider options. - Tim |
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Pitso my brother please?..
23/07/2008 08:57
MDC did not get the required majority hence the run off on the 27th of June and ZANU PF one men election does not mean anything, UN, AU, SADC dismissed those elections, which means STALEMATE. Lets wait for the talks before we assume who will emerge the President of the GNU. BTW this GNU or whatever is meant to stabilize Zimbabwe until they are ready to have elections. - Mlu |
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Race free debate at last!
23/07/2008 08:57
Why can't we always debate like this - without bringing race into it? It is scary reading the responses to other peoples points of view. Sure criticise, pull it apart, whatever but why, oh why must someone always play the race card? It's sickening!! Calvin, your thinking is scary!! - Mark |
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African liberation movements' ideas catastrophe
23/07/2008 08:58
The African Union's or Thabo Mbeki's belief that only Mugabe can secure the gains of the liberation struggle in general and the land reform programme in particular are plain silly and if they are true, then God help us because Mugabe is not going to be with us for any sustainable period in revolutionary terms. Dictatorship is taking root in Africa and soon there will be no need for elections, what for if only God can remove leaders not voters.
- Zimbo |
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Mbeki is the man!!!
23/07/2008 09:01
I feel so great to see that Africa can now lead itself. What happened should be accepted as a great breakthrough, and credit should go to mediator Thabo Mbeki even though people have crushed him. There is no man in this world that can be listened by Mugabe except Mbeki. I also believe that if it was not Mbeki?s approach many were going to loose lives of innocent people. I understand that many people wanted Mbeki to take side (to MDC), and as a mediator he can not take side, both Mugabe and Morgan should be treated fairly and in a proper manner. . Pitso should also stop speculating that, Kabiki and Mugabe stole the election because no evidence he can provide to us. Mbeki is a man who stands for his ground firmly and he will indeed be remembered for that. - Maanda |
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Naive Calvin
23/07/2008 09:02
Does anyone really believe that the military junta will give up control? If, as reported, Mugabe was prepared to concede defeat after the Presidential elections but was prevented by the military, it would have been on the basis that Tsvangirai had the 50% he needed. The month long delay in posting the results was in order to ensure Mugabe had a second bite of the cherry. Who will control the military in a unity government? - DavidD |
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@ Calvin
23/07/2008 09:04
Hi Calvin please read Prof Kadar Ashmel's take on who won the Zim elections, and yes buck its the same ANC stalwart Kadar Ashmel. Morgan is the winner accourding to Zim law finished and klaar, wonder what ur comments would be if this happened in SA - Mike N |
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@Funnybones
23/07/2008 09:09
"...we should all leave the elections behind us and concentrate on the future...". Bold statement - why can this not be applicable to this country? Why can't we leave the atrocities of apartheid behind us and concentrate on the future? - TedHaller |
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@Calvin Mkhize
23/07/2008 09:11
Correction there Calvin,the MDC won a parliamentary majority in the general elections in March,as well as Morgan winning over Mugabe in the presidential election.It is Mugabe who should be thankful that Morgan and his majority have not taken up arms agianst the ZANU-PF thugs who have been openly torturing and murdering men,women and children.Stop talking s..t for once in your life! - The Truth |
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@ Calvin
23/07/2008 09:12
You missed a couple of words and sentences from your comment Calvin. The MDC DID win the Parliamentary election by gaining the majority of seats. Morgan DID win the Presedential election but did not have the required percentage to claim overall victory. So by the post election rule of terror, the wishes of the people have been ignored in both contests. Democracy? Strategic thinking? - JHB |
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@VG
23/07/2008 09:12
The difference between the 'Groot Krokodil' and mad bob is that he (GK) didn't lose an election and then murder and maim to stay in power. - TedHaller |
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@Calvin Mkhize
23/07/2008 09:14
Calvin, you worry me. It's amazing how little you choose to see and it's frightening how little you care. Say a prayer for yourself tonight. - TedHaller |
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Fully Agree Pitso
23/07/2008 09:16
Exactly what so many people have being saying for a long time now. Where are the new African leaders (not greedy, corrupt, warlords) who can lead the people of our great continent into the future??? Well written piece by the way ... - White_African |
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What an excellent article.
23/07/2008 09:21
Pitso you more likley belong to my group, the grp that is mostly isolated and never understood because we are not too educated or BEE beneficiaries and also don't form part of the ANCYL. How can we prove to the world my friend that we do not form part of those Mbekis, Sexwales, and certainly not ANCYL, that we form a different generation that aspires to competency, rule of law and democracy. We shall govern, the day is yet to come. - Libembe |
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Provide a solution
23/07/2008 09:23
For all the critics of what has been brokered in Zim, please give us a solution. It is very easy to criticise but what about offering intelligent solutions? If you criticise without offering a solution you're not constructive. - Mzekezeke |
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Mugabean 'democracy'
23/07/2008 09:24
If a smiling Mbeki embraces his old pal Mugabe, that is taken as legitimating a stolen election; if the dictator and the MDC appear on the same platform signing a memorandum of intent, this is hailed as a 'new dawn' and victory for 'quiet diplomacy'. Now all it needs to validate it is the blessing of the human rights clique: Blarney Pityana would cut a fine figure beside mad Bob. Shake enough hands, embrace enough dictators, and it all becomes legitimate. So it goes on the continent... - Reuben |
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is Calvin another warlord
23/07/2008 09:26
Calvin, Morgan didn't compete because of Mugabe's thugs beating up fellow Africans. The fact you endorse Mugabe's election means you enddorse the oppresion of fellow Africans, just like apartheid. Are you a former nationalist party supporter? - Phillip |
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Bet News24 wont print this
23/07/2008 09:26
Hey CALVIN MKHIZE. You really have no clue what you're talking about. Most Zimbabweans would NEVER vote for Mugabe again. He just made up some story to prompt the runoff. If you believe otherwise, you have just proved everyones dislike for you again. To believe that the MDC didn't win just proves how little you know. Hopefully natural selection will take care of you soon enough... - ross |
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@Maanda
23/07/2008 09:31
Mbeki is freaking lunatic. PEOPLE DIE IN ZIM AND HERE TOO, UNNATURALLY... I don't get it... how is it possible for you to support such intentions? If this is indeed your resolve then we as South Africans should just go to war, kill each other and get it over and done with... just proves to me AGAIN that you and your kind cannot comprehend the severity that is african thinking... - Francois |
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Good Article
23/07/2008 09:34
Very good article but would like to know who is funding Mugabe. It takes two to tango, who else is making money out of his actions apart from his Zim and other cronies with who he shares. - Greed |
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Democracy in Africa a farce
23/07/2008 09:34
The system of democracy is only manipulated by power mongers to save face with the rest of the world. They twist and turn this system so everything appears normal. They speak with one set of rules (better life for all) and do the exact opposite (affirmative action) and control the masses with the media (ANCBC) and promises of a better future only to enrich those select few. They use clever phrases like injustice of the past to commit new injustice. They preach democracy but cant escape their marxist roots. - shane |
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Mark
23/07/2008 09:35
Mark, I agree - this could be a street parliament if we would remain objective. Many of the intelligent views brought today have helped me find common ground with my countrymen, especially given the astute comments of Zimbo and Pitso. - Paula |
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Cartoon
23/07/2008 09:36
Maanda, there is a seperate place on News24 where you can submit cartoons. Your comments are laughable to say the least. - Confucious |
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@Libembe
23/07/2008 09:36
I truly appreciate your attitude and I am so glad that there are africans out there (more and more everyday) who WANTS to MAKE SA work without the crap we're currently facing! Hats of to you and yours! - Francois |
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Another classical case of a smiling native!
23/07/2008 09:36
Sorry, Pitso Tsibolane, yours is just a noisy gesture at ingratiating yourself with the racially prejudiced communities of South Africa and former Rhodesia. You seem determined to making the right noises, just to win yourself friends from those who would rather see mayhem in Zimbabwe and Kenya than an African-inspired lasting political solution to the impasse prevailing in these two countries. Is it surprise that you offer no alternatives regarding what the mediators could have chosen, under the circumstances in Kenya and Zimbabwe? What could Mbeki and Annan have done to avert a full-blown civil war in Zimbabwe and Kenya? Do you prefer a megaphone diplomacy that is advocated by those you servilely give deference to, and subconsciously worship?
May I also remind you that the oil-thirsty US president, George Dubya, stole the elections, but in the interests of peace this was not followed to its rightful end (in the interests of peace and political stability)? You may be still young and characteristically naive, but it is not too early to let you know that no responsible head of state would prefer to see the civil war breaking out just outside his or her doorstep, and anything and everything must be done to avert that fateful eventuality. You would be even surprised to learn that even the MDC supporters in Zimbabwe on whose behalf you purport to speak (leave aside the ones making noises in the comforts of South Africa and other African countries) want a lasting solution to the problems in Zimbabwe. - nzs |
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Aaag!
23/07/2008 09:39
Guyz guyz...Don't you worry. RM will die soon, we will forget about him. The Zimbos should start focusing on grooming new leaders(non-warlords). All this is due to poor planning. I hope it is a lesson for SA. We should be grooming new leaders. There's no hope instead just more peolpe who are prepared to kill(Malema's). - Dontcare |
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NZS
23/07/2008 09:42
NZS you are so busy listening to your own many words that you missed the whole point and the spirit of a very constructive debate - one that goes to the heart of our greatest dilemmas. - pete |
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@TedHaller
23/07/2008 09:45
..Excuse me? so why did he feel it necessary to hunt down and kill black people in townships? because they were opposed to him being in power! So many blacks were killed by his regime its a travesty that he didn't end up in the Hague. - VG |
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Agree with Funnybones
23/07/2008 09:46
The situation in Zim needs a solution, and if we're all genuinely concerned about Zimbos we should look at the signing of the MOU as a key milestone towards the restoration of peace & stability in that country and the region. - The Village Pope |
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Calvin Mkhize
23/07/2008 09:46
I am not sure if people understand your comment, but to me it is clear and you have just made a clear comment which does not even need an analyst. Everybody knows the truth. - Maanda |
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You have made your point
23/07/2008 09:47
I partially agree with what you've said but I don't see you suggesting any solution. i get dissapointed when that happens, it's like you didn't say anything - Brian |
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Pitsa
23/07/2008 09:47
Are the people of Zim better off with this settlement? We may not like it that Mugabe has not been asked to account for his actions, but the deal means violence is less. The environment is now such that Zim can start to rebuild itseld. Surely this is good. - Jan |
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Pitso Tsibolane's statement
23/07/2008 09:48
I support your statement, Pitso. - Antibob |
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@TedHaller
23/07/2008 09:48
Excuse me? GK most definitely DID murder and maim to stay in power. If you had lived in Soweto (or any township for that matter) in the 1980's you would know this. - VG |
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Selective Memory....typical south africans!
23/07/2008 09:50
After the March elections, Mugabe had packed his bags and was ready to step down and leave the country. The MILITARY told him that if he did that, they would take over the country. Let us please consider all the facts before we share our 2 cents worth. Mugabe did not refuse to step down, he was forced to stay. I'm not his fan, but just trying something that south africans of either side of the fence cant do - being objective. - Fraud |
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@nzs
23/07/2008 09:50
How NEWS24 allows you to print such a large paragraph of drivel I will never know.George Bush never beat or murdered his opponents into submission.They do things differently in the Western,democratic and civilised world.This may however be a little bit beyond your ability to comprehend,but don't give up. - The Truth |
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But what will happen?
23/07/2008 09:50
To praise TM with this solution is stupid, he has allowed Bob to rule over people who want to be ruled by Morgan. They voted, they died for what? Sniper required ASAP? - Nick |
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Agree with Funnybones
23/07/2008 09:51
The situation in Zim needs a solution, and if we're all genuinely concerned about Zimbos we should look at the signing of the MOU as a key milestone towards the restoration of peace & stability in that country and the region. - The Village Pope |
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Stinkberg
23/07/2008 09:51
You say you're leaving soon and it looks like you haven't decided whether its Aus or Europe. Please hurry up and make your and buy that single ticket. I'm tired of this I'm leaving attitude, dit stink heeltemal - Brian |
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Pitso & Libembe for PRESIDENT!
23/07/2008 09:59
Dude, once again another fantastic article. The thought and objectivity you show in your writing is an inspiration! I am all for a new breed/style of african leadership to help make SA as great as it can be!! Well done! - Dave |
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well written
23/07/2008 09:59
Fully agreed, well written! - Silver |
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Pitso & Libembe for PRESIDENT!
23/07/2008 09:59
Dude, once again another fantastic article. The thought and objectivity you show in your writing is an inspiration! I am all for a new breed/style of african leadership to help make SA as great as it can be!! Well done! - Dave |
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Lacking objectivity
23/07/2008 10:01
You would have written a good article but spoiled it by trying to tow the line. You need to understand how the electoral laws work in Zimbabwe before you declare whether Tsvangirai won the first election or not. Reading from your article it seems you do not have a clue about Zimbabwe's electoral law or you just ignored it as it is fashionable to claim that Mugabe stole the election. The point here is the law is the law and accordingly Tsvangirai did not win anything as required by law. - Dzvinyangoma |
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@Libembe
23/07/2008 10:01
Hi Libembe, while I dont always agree with your opinions, I do respect them. Should you ever go in to politics, I would vote for you. - Andrew |
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Pitso & Libembe for our Own Gov of National Unity
23/07/2008 10:01
Dude, once again another fantastic article. The thought and objectivity you show in your writing is an inspiration! I am all for a new breed/style of african leadership to help make SA as great as it can be!! Well done! - dave |
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Noise - no solution!!
23/07/2008 10:01
Too much noise, what's your solution. Otherwise keep quite, and accept the breakthrough done by Thabo Mbeki. - Maanda |
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VG ...
23/07/2008 10:06
VG, you make a good point about the Groot Krokodil. The apartheid murderers and oppressors are walking free in South Africa, as I write this post. Instead of punishing the true criminals, the ANC is directing their anger at white South Africans in general, even though many of us did not vote for the Nats. - Puhleez |
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You call this an achievement?
23/07/2008 10:08
Do we call this an achievement? Really? Since when does messing up an election and a country becomes an enviable acheivement? This is not just an event, this is a well planned and executed process designed to keep RM in power. True analyst and politicians are keeping mum, they know where it is all headed and in the meantime, the small man is rejoicing over nothing. Cry the beloved continent. - ZZ Hill |
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Good points.
23/07/2008 10:09
Good points you make Pitso,but with regard to Zimbabwe, I do not know what an alternative will be. I'm dead against an invasion because once a war starts it never really end.
I think the MDC must insist that the Heads of police, army and intellegence be removed from the unity goverment. With the stance they took during the elections they are more of a threat to that country than Pres. Mugabe. - Olivia |
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Huh?
23/07/2008 10:14
..."flattered by the thought that Africans (SADC and AU) have managed to achieve what the international world could never achieve"...What! Ridiculous statement. Question-What is it that Africans will never achieve which most of the international community have? Answer-Civility. - Keifie |
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@nzs....how could you...
23/07/2008 10:16
base your argument on facts? Don't you know this forum is for emotional people (on either side of the fence)? Don't you know that facts aren't important here? People will crucify you man, so you better retract those statements please - "for the sake of peace"... - Fraud |
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What do you know?
23/07/2008 10:16
Eventually a article that i agree with, Pitso well said. The concern that i have is a statement from the minister of Kenya, he said that the negotiator must make sure that Mugabe is assured a safe exit, this is absolute bulls%&t, he must be held accountable for his evil actions. - Martin |
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Zim electoral Law
23/07/2008 10:19
Amazing how many people say MT did not win enough votes hence no election win for him and no presidency. RM did not win enough either (less in fact) yet is 'president'. Perhaps you could apply the law to that argument too? Or are you just doing it selectively. - Aj |
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These warlords force a war otherwise accept them....
23/07/2008 10:20
People keep saying that we cannot send in the military and help Zim have a civil war (which is ultimately what is needed) because it will hurt the Zim people more. This is axactly what these dictators rely on. They will kill their people and bring them to submission, knowing that nobody will do anything to make them kill anymore than they have to to keep power. That is how these dictators hold their countries to ransom. - Karen |
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BTW There is no such thing as "hostage democracy"
23/07/2008 10:23
A democracy is where the people have the power to make the decisions. What Zim has is no where near a democracy. They pretend it is a democracy by having regular elections, but its a farce. It autocracy in disguise. Does anybody believe it? I don't think so! Does anybody believe we have a true democracy - unfortunately Yes!! Democracy is the flavour of the moment and everybody pretends they have it - does anybody in Africa actually have it though?? - Karen |
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Good point bro!
23/07/2008 10:23
I think these international watchdog bodies (UN, SADC, AU and EU) are useless if you look at the Zim situation very closesly. How can they not force or put pressure on Mugabe. How's Mugabe diffrenet from Charles Tylor, who is today stadning accused of war crimes in ICC? Mugabe should be prosecuted for genocide as well jus like Bashir of Sudan. Although I don't support US and Britain for invading Iraq and Afghanistan, but I think they shud have done the same thing across the limpopo river. - general |
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devil as president
23/07/2008 10:30
It must be terrable to know you lost the election first time round,it took plus /minus 5 weeks for the losers to tamper withthe vote,and hold and behold it took 2 days to count the vote for mad BOB to be voted as president,as they say the devil has no concience LOSER - ROB |
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Election
23/07/2008 10:32
So Bob did not steal the election? I wonder why it took more than a month to count the votes for the first election (presedential) and the second time around it took only one day. Why did only 30% of the people vote in the second election? Solution?? Stop creating problems like this and you won't need to find solutions to solve the mess afterwards - this should be quite obvious. Two wrongs do not make a right....... - Confucious |
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Great Article
23/07/2008 10:37
You give me hope in these sad times. Mugabe is a mass murderer - he should have to account for his actions. This is a good step forward - but i fail to see how Mbeki could have influenced anything by keeping quiet - also i never see Mbeki holding Morgans hand only Mugabe's - Great Mediator!!! If Mbeki can take credit for helping Zimababwe by remaining quiet then so can everyone else in the world who said nothing. - David |
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@VG
23/07/2008 10:45
Perhaps I should've been a little clearer. What I was pointing out was the difference between what bob did and what the GK did. They both deserve to be sent to The Hague - together with ALL leaders responsible for crimes against humanity! - TedHaller |
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@VG
23/07/2008 10:49
Same can be said for some ANC leaders as those limpid mines did not plant themselves.If the Hague where to do that there would be allot of our prevoius and current leaders facing the gallos - shane |
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What's the problem now?
23/07/2008 10:49
I just want to say that the people from zimbabwe voted Zanu-pf into power.They kept voting for Mugabe even after they were starving-then suddenly this year they wake up and now want their old country back.What country?They ruined it by voting for an opressist dictator and suddenly they want to flee into SA. It's the same with the ANC - their members must realise - you get what you vote for - so it does not help to complain about poverty,poor service delivery etc that's the people YOU voted for - getwhatyouvotefor |
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RE: Karen - hostage democracy
23/07/2008 10:50
Agree with your view re democracy. There is no such thing as true democracy in Africa. Doesn't exist, yet everyday there are mamparras on this forum declaring that we have a democracy. BTW your comment about Africa being like a "special child" yesterday was spot on. - Cynical |
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@Keifie - civility
23/07/2008 10:55
I think lack of civility applies to you as your article contributes nothing to a civilised debate. You're just venting your own hatred and ignorance of what's happening around you. If you have nothing to contribute please keep quite - that my friend is civility. - Mzekezeke |
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Calvin Mkize...
23/07/2008 11:06
Blind as a bat as usual!! Pitso, subjective and well written. Keep posting your articles, us white folk enjoy a objective approach to such issues from intelligent people unlike Calvin who keeps flying into trees and smacking his head too much. - Win |
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getwhatyouvotefor
23/07/2008 11:07
My friend you a so ignorant about Zim. RM lost a referendum in 2000 and stole elections in 2003. You must do little of research before you make an idiot of yourself. - Mzekezeke |
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A sad state of affairs
23/07/2008 11:09
Mbeki is praised for his mediation, yet the victors have to share the spoils. Another African democracy where the despot gets away with murder. At least the ANC took power in 1994, but MDC gets to share there victory with a moron. You can't tell me 43% of Zims voted to stay in impoverished conditions. The elections was a sham to make the oppostion think they would win and then nail them in the run up election. A typical move by a power hungry president and his men. - Realist |
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@Cynical - thanks, @getwhatyouvotefor - think!!
23/07/2008 11:11
Have you considered for a moment that perhaps Mugabe has not been voted in time after time by the people of Zim and that he has just rigged the votes in his favour time after time and it has not been contested as vocally and widely before as it has this year? Maybe MDC finally got so frustrated that they were forced to seek support from any corner they could get it because there was no hope of democracy and no support from any other African country to free them from the tyranny. Just a thought... - Karen |
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Zim
23/07/2008 11:17
People,get real.Wheather you like bob or not,you still have to live with him.Offer solutions instead of noise.I dont agree with your point of view.Why did the army ask bob to stay?Simple,they regarded morgan as a traitor to their hard fought freedom.As for george bush,the people murdered by him and america are about to surpass those of the nazi.Accept the present situation as a step in the right direction. - Jonas |
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Haig Democracy
23/07/2008 11:21
Pitso you are quite right. The same is happening in Sudan because they do not want their "warlord" to go to ICC trial. Nats at least had elections AND respected the referendum in 92 although they had elements - De Kok & Co.- as did MK. ANCYL do not support democracy at elections. Calvin you VG and Maanda are so ignorant you have taken over from Kolobe - Filemon |
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Rest of Africa
23/07/2008 11:24
Well said "getwhatyouvotefor" unfortunately the entire Africa is like that, once a party is in they will stay in power until the bitter end, hence the state of Africa. Pity democracy does not have a place in Africa, SA is going the same route. - Martin |
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@Mzekezeke
23/07/2008 11:29
You are 100% correct. Hey if you can't beat them join them. Another question: What did your comm |
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