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If it wasn't for the West
24/07/2008 08:21
...apartheid would still have been alive and kicking in SA - kwk |
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Western meddling to ruin Zim
24/07/2008 08:23
Western meddling to ruin Zim? I think mugabe is managing that rather well without any help. Without western help, Zimbabwe will be tragedy for decades. - Danie |
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Zimbabwe Ruins!?
24/07/2008 08:41
Now not only a place in Zimbabwe but the whole of Zimbabwe. No tourist attraction here! We should have known when the name were changed.... - Martin |
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West bad?
24/07/2008 08:42
I think your head is on backwards my man! Africa has made it quite clear that they do not need the west, it shows, look at this place with all the poverty, economic meltdowns etc etc. Africa would be smart to learn something from Europe or do you believe that ir's better here then there? Madness - stinkbug |
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Without the West,
24/07/2008 08:43
Africa would die of hunger. Mugabe wants to keep Western aid organizations out of Zim. Then he can keep the population in submission, and keep control over them. Like kwk said, if it wasn't for the west, apartheid would still be alive and kicking. - hjs |
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Zim is already ruined
24/07/2008 08:43
well somebody had to intervene, because Robert and Morgan could'nt sort out the problems. Robert has ruined it all by himself. And the human right abuse in that country got out of hand. It is a pity that you are so one-sided, the West is trying to do whats BEST for the country, which is in ruins at present. - Doll |
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Confused??
24/07/2008 08:45
Dude, what are you smoking? I'm an African and I oppose Bob. Have you forgotten all the human rights atrocities he has committed? Ignore the 'West', the US & the UK. They don't really care anyway, but for the sake of the Zimbabwean PEOPLE, get your head out of the sand. Bob is a tyrant and deserves nothing less than to be tried at a 'N?remburg Trial' of his own. Nazis got the death penalty for less than Bob has done! - EmTee |
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West are not meddling
24/07/2008 08:46
They are not mediating, sending monitors or media people. How are they meddling? By sending AID and financing AID agencies and US DOLLARS I suppose. Yes, I agree, they should stop that for sure. - AJ |
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Maybe but
24/07/2008 08:47
Certainly it seems unlikely that Western meddling could inflict any more harm on Zim than Mugabe already has. One thing is for sure, Imposing sanctions on Zimbabwe is more like saying, Zimbabwe get on with it yourself than actually meddling. Personally I think Zim is doomed, for the same reason many African countries before Zim have walked the same road. - Malcolm X |
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You Listen To Mugabe Too Much!
24/07/2008 08:47
Really, thats how you see it. For your own information Zimbos have dumped their Zim$ and the US$ and British Pound becomes highly sought after, even by Mugabe. Who does not want the West, African leaders are falling over each other trying to be the first in a que to impress the West. The West is feeding Zimbabwe today, supplying drugs so its in their interest to have a stable Zimbabwe which can look after its self and Mugabe has failed dismally, infact he ruined something which was working. - Africant |
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AU Message
24/07/2008 08:47
You ask that the African Union send a clear message to the West. Clear messages are not exactly a strong point of this impotent ineffective bunch is it. They had years to send one to Zim and could not even get that right. - AJ |
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zim
24/07/2008 08:50
Surely the people of Zimbabwe should decide - they made their decision clear in March. Why entertain and pussyfoot around the Zanu PF - they are a party and law unto themselves and not a truly elected entity. Imagine if George Bush refused to leave the White House? The Zim situation is insane. - sheila |
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isn't it strange?
24/07/2008 08:50
That this morning I hear new appeals from the WFP for famines in Africa. Famines - caused by African misrule. Yet the supporters of the power-that-be in these hell-holes keep telling the West to butt out, and that Africa must provide African solutions. Based on the track record of 'African solutions' that seems to be keep murdering kleptocrats in power and demand aid while people die. Mugabe's misrule has been extended because the West has done so little - rather than the other way around. - Baboon |
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zim
24/07/2008 08:51
Surely the people of Zimbabwe should decide - they made their decision clear in March. Why entertain and pussyfoot around the Zanu PF - they are a party and law unto themselves and not a truly elected entity. Imagine if George Bush refused to leave the White House? The Zim situation is insane. - sheila |
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I agree
24/07/2008 08:52
The west must leave Africa. Clearly the West has brought ruin upon Africa and continues to do so. The west should pretend AFrica does not exist. Now, please can someone move me there. - Stryder |
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West helped SA to end apartheid
24/07/2008 08:52
The evil West helped the ANC to bring an end to apartheid. Africa is always begging for money from the West. Africa just takes from the West but the West must keep quiet. What if the evil West and USA stop giving Africa financial & medical aid? Then atleast the communist countries (China & Russia) will be happy to take over Africa ;) - debbie |
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Read before commenting
24/07/2008 08:52
I urge everyone to please read the article in full before commenting. I see from the comments that some comment based on the headline, which does not necessarily capture the essence of the article. - Madibeng Kgwete |
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well said!
24/07/2008 08:52
......Madibeng, I do agree with you, the only thing that can harden Mugabe is the Western interference in negotiations process; so the AU should take a responsibility for that matter because they are capable. For the Western to dictate that Morgan should be a leader of a government of unity, it is a clear indication that the western are taking side and that is very dangerous and it can probably cause a flame.
- Maanda |
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Stunned
24/07/2008 08:53
It stuns me that commentators such as Mad(ibeng) see nothing wrong with political leaders' actions leading to the direct death of in excess of 70 people, let alone the hundreds that have and will die of starvation. How can it not be wrong that Mugabe & Co's greed has resulted in death and destruction for almost every Zimbabwean? The Mads of this world that express these views clearly have no concept of the sanctity of life - the blood flows from all of their hands. - Tim |
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Why oh Why
24/07/2008 08:54
Madibeng, why won't you condemn Mugabe. The "evil" wests leaders (democratically elected unlike Zimbabwe) are putting on targeted sanctions because their constituents demand action against this despot. China/Russia are totalirarian regimes who do not actually care about Zimbabwe. They care only of political manouvering and perhaps mineral explotation. Is a government of unity the answer,don't know, but I do know that the fault for the disgrace in Zimbabwe sits squarely on the shoulders of Mugabe - bj |
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You are correct Kgwete
24/07/2008 08:54
Yes Kgwete, you are spot on about the meddling of the US and the UK in Zim affairs. And also you are correct about Tsvangarai's weakness to these two powers, but you forgot to mention the third factor that's derailing Zim's progress. And that's Mugabe's ruining of the country and its electorate. There wouldnt be this western interference if Zimbabwe was stable. - Sello |
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A Challenged Bootlicker ?
24/07/2008 08:56
It is not surprising that certain ?solidarity comrades? still condone the grand evil perpetrated by the likes of Mugabe an his clones over the last 28 years.
Most African leaders and their apologists are vacant about the implementation of proper civilized democracy and human rights.
Of course the ?talks? are bound to fail.
The main reasons being that the Zanu PF thugs cannot contemplate the potential loss of all their ill-gotten loot and power, and that these hoodlums are very fearful of the inevitable future prosecution they will face in local or International Criminal Courts.
The attitude of SADC, the AU and particularly Thabo Mbeki simply reinforces the perception that Africa largely remains a basket-case continent.
Mugabe apologists and fellow deadbeats need to eventually discover how the civilized world became what it is, and what key elements differentiates it from typical Africa.
Worn-out ranting about ?colonization? is not the answer.
- Mental Paraplegic Observer |
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A Challenged Bootlicker ?
24/07/2008 08:59
It is not surprising that certain ?solidarity comrades? still condone the grand evil perpetrated by the likes of Mugabe an his clones over the last 28 years.
Most African leaders and their apologists are vacant about the implementation of proper civilized democracy and human rights.
Of course the ?talks? are bound to fail.
The main reasons being that the Zanu PF thugs cannot contemplate the potential loss of all their ill-gotten loot and power, and that these hoodlums are very fearful of the inevitable future prosecution they will face in local or International Criminal Courts.
The attitude of SADC, the AU and particularly Thabo Mbeki simply reinforces the perception that Africa largely remains a basket-case continent.
Mugabe apologists and fellow deadbeats need to eventually discover how the civilized world became what it is, and what key elements differentiates it from typical Africa.
Worn-out ranting about ?colonization? is not the answer.
- Mental Paraplegic Observer |
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Well said Madibeng
24/07/2008 08:59
We should all, as Africans, fight against western governments whose intentions are to organise global economy to benefit western corporations. Never again will Zimbabwe, or any country in Africa, be a colony. - Toto |
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Now replace the word Mugabe with Mandela
24/07/2008 09:02
and see if want you have written makes sense!! Strange, when the west wanted an ANC government lead by Mandela, that was fine - but now they must butt out in Zimbabwe. The mentality of black South Africans never fails to amaze me and yes, I am black. Without the West, the whole of Africa and its incessant begging basket is doomed. Thank God for the years my parents spent in exile in Britain, so I escaped the indoctrinated rhetoric that Black Africans are incapable of getting their heads around. - johnson |
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West only want to help poor Africans
24/07/2008 09:03
Zim is of no interest to the west - there is no oil, minerals or infra-strucure. The west just wants to help the poor, destitute and hungary in Africa. You know, like they have been doing for the last 40 years since all the African coutries became independant and ruined their own ecconomies with the lack of work ethic and bribery.
This help is normal and ongoing as African countries will never be able to govern themselves successfully - as history has shown.
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Madibeng
24/07/2008 09:03
Are you serious or just trying to provoke response? - Jim |
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Totally agree
24/07/2008 09:05
But I hope a time will come when Africans will be able and willing resolve their conflicts without the West feeling that they need to intervene. I couldnt have said this better myself, I think MDC is banking too much on the West putting pressure on Bob - anyone who has observed Mugabe in recent years knows that He will not bow down to Bush and his friends. They are just causing more strain on the negotiation process. Well written!! - KLZ |
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WEST TO BUTT OFF
24/07/2008 09:05
from Africa is such a moronic attitude because no continent can live of its own you have to have trading partners and aid partners,therefore your assertion tbat Zim will do it the African way is crap.Why point a finger at Tsangirai what about other parties?I know everyone in zim want change and they failed to do so on their own so outside help is appreciated. - scorpion |
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Are you mad?
24/07/2008 09:05
Clearly it is not the west that is arrogant, African arrogance that they can sort out their own political worries is built on fear intimidation, human rights abuse and feathering their own nests as well as nepotism to extremes. I cannot begin to think where SA would be if it wasn't for the West interferring? Or is it ok when it's to stop white oppression and not ok when black oppression is in the mix. China wants to colonise Africa, that's why the vetoed. - AS8 |
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Meddling
24/07/2008 09:07
Your position can only be an issue if you fear that the West is anti-Mugabe, as opposed to pro-Tsangirai. As such, do you imply that as Mugabe fiddles whilst Zim burns down, that is a more legitimate form of interference than outside criticism of his actions? If your neighbour was being raped, would intervention also be called interference - because right now that is exactly what is happening in Zim and the world is rightfully disgusted - that is the cost of inclusion in global progress. - Pete |
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Mugarbage
24/07/2008 09:08
Who won the original election? Who has always been committed to change? who's people have been murdered, beaten, abused through-out the last ten/twelve years? Surely not the MDC! Where have you been man! - Jawellnofine |
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Mugarbage
24/07/2008 09:09
Who won the original election? Who has always been committed to change? who's people have been murdered, beaten, abused through-out the last ten/twelve years? Surely not the MDC! Where have you been man! - Jawellnofine |
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PUBLISH IT ELSEWHERE
24/07/2008 09:09
Your letter would look better in the Zimbabwean Herald. They would love this. We are all too emotional right now to appreciate your letter. British and American hands are not clean and we will have to think about that again once this whole farce is over. - Christiaan |
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Tsvangirai
24/07/2008 09:12
You are misreading western sentiments - as things stand, Tsvangirai has a legitimate claim to power (there would be no basis for negotiations if it were not so). The west is appalled at Mugabe's interference in the democratic process and no sane person could legitimise him on such a basis. So that gives Tsvangirai the high ground, but that does not mean he is the West's choice - it just means the west recognises that he is the people's choice. - paula |
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ALAS TI'S JUST
24/07/2008 09:12
It's true if the agreement it is not going according to both parties,the tyrant will start again with his motives,i believe mugabe must be killed first then people will live free but as long as his alive people are going suffer>DICE - modise |
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Meddling? What meddling?
24/07/2008 09:13
Announcing that you won't recognise a senile dictator is not meddling. It's merely a position. It's a completely passive act. Mugabe wants people to believe that the West is "meddling" in Zim because he can then blame its economic collapse on them. The West don't give a flying duck about Zimbabwe. It's way, way down on their list of priorities at the moment. So there is no "meddling". - biobot |
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Yawn!
24/07/2008 09:15
Like Madibeng, the AU is quick to criticise the West, yet if the AU had insisted that the rule (or maybe theory, in Africa's case) of Democracy had been applied in Zim, no comment from the rest of the world would be necessary. DO you think the West wants to support, through food aid, etc, another African failure....NO, they would rather see it achieve former glory and self sufficiency... - Sean |
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Tsvangirai
24/07/2008 09:17
Mugabe propoganda has been downright harsh on Tsvangirai, so that people like yourself are sincerely beguiled into believing he is the devil and Mugabe is some angel (notwithstanding his appalling mismanagement and corrupt style). But events have revealed Tsvangirai as someone willing to put the interests of his people first - he has been remarkeably big-hearted in this process, willing even to forego election to save lives and then also willing to shake hands with his tormentor and share power. - tim |
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Shocked...
24/07/2008 09:18
after reading this column, and a few user comments, i am absolutely shocked that there are ppl that side with Mugabe and the disgusting acts he has committed and continues to do so. It is easy to side when we are not affected. To pass the buck, again, and say the West is to blame is pathetic. Only Mugabe is to blame. His regime is the root cause of the chaos. Is that really not obvious?? Pls, this africa 4 africa only mentality needs to stop, who else is going to empower Africa if not the West? - Greg |
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I agree with you Madibeng - to a certain extent
24/07/2008 09:18
But it is the West's right to refuse to recognize Mugabe. It was after all their money that they spent and now lost on this country when Mugabe lost his marbles. How did Zim got to be in the good shape it was before? Definately was not funded all by themselves. The West can certainly choose how and on whom they want to spend/waste their own money, not so? Just like us their citizens pay taxes, which in turn is spent on investments - which sometimes are lost on these bottomless pits. - TB |
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What interference?
24/07/2008 09:19
The reason why western governments 'interfere' is the failure of African states to take a tough stance against dictators in their midst.How long will innocent Africans continue to be killed by their own leaders?this has been going on for too long.At least the west has got the guts to confront these ruthless dictators.It is stupid to hide behind'western interference' while people continue to suffer.Will you live under these conditions yourself? If not why do you think other people should? - Godfrey |
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Only if the AU existed....
24/07/2008 09:22
I have noted your comments which to an extent mught be valid although feeble. Now, once you start talking about AU to solve the Zim crisis, that's where you lost the plot. The sanctions are more symbolic than mere punitive ie sending message of disapproval. The AU has made failing to solve African crisis a new national sport, history is littered with AU failings not to mention that it has criminals and dictators in its ranks. - Libembe |
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Why not??
24/07/2008 09:22
May I ask you Madibeng what is wrong with the West helping Zim? Why not? Looks like they sure could do with some help! Why are you so appossed to the West "interfering" and "meddling" by trying to help an obvious crisis? Hey? - jim |
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question...
24/07/2008 09:24
In light of the supposed West meddling, and Africa sorting out its on kak, why then, are the AU requesting that the UN take-over Somalia? Is it maybe, just maybe, because they are unable to cope and need assistance? So its OK to ask for help when things are completely f-up but not OK other every other occasion. hypocrites. hypocrites. hypocrites. period. - Greg |
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Zim
24/07/2008 09:26
The West should get involved because unpalatable as it may be for Africans their choice of leaders has left a lot to desire and the incompetent leaders they have elected have shown that they cannot sort out problems without international intervention. Just live with this and get on with it. - Malcolm |
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Who else
24/07/2008 09:27
The Zimbabwean people are at the mercy of Robert Mugabe and his partners in crime who have been the architects of the distruction of a once prosperous country. If the West and Britain don't come to the aid of these people who will? Who else is suffuciently equipped to do so??? Come on Madibeng, answer me!! - jim |
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West tired of Africa
24/07/2008 09:28
I think the West is tired of giving financial and medical aid to poor African countries. Im sure they (West) have better things to do with their time and money than dish it out to people that cannot look after themselves. Everyone feels sorry for the poor african people. Shame ;( - debs |
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Some things will never change
24/07/2008 09:31
Wow. This is a beautiful thing ?The African Renascence?. Sustainable development! What sustainable development? Africans are the masters of the street corner just waiting for the next handout from the west waiting for the next months grant to go spend it at the shebeen and then ranting about their colonial past while the rest of the world develops something useful and moves forward dragging the Africans kicking and screaming behind. They want to be included in everything without lifting a finger and behold the cries of racism if it doesn?t happen. This continent will never change. - shane |
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Negotiations
24/07/2008 09:33
Mugabe is not only senile, he lacks integrity and honour. So, if this process is left to its own, a sustainable solution would be in doubt - or at least the outcome would lack legitimacy. But western pressure (direct intereference is not evident) helps to keep the process honest and accountable. Its interesting that Madibeng regards potential investors as meddlers, but expects the same "meddlers" to invest ... - Pete |
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LOL
24/07/2008 09:35
Just like this "elusive third force" nonsense, some people will always try to appear semi-intelligent by latching on to nonsensical rhetoric in support of some vague Africanist idealogy. Wake up fool. Nobody cares about that craphole. There's nothing left to colonise. Reject the evil west and their food aid, their technology and their democracy, and see how fast your country crumbles until its just another insignificant military dictatorship with a corrugated iron shack for an airport. - Yawn |
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Madibeng standing on shaky ground...
24/07/2008 09:38
Kgwete my man, do you honestly believe that Mugabe's misrule is due to Western interference...you gotta be joking!Your article ignores all the ills perpetrated by Mugabe on porr Zimbwabweans, and your article says nothing about the dictator, your blinded sight makes you a supporter of anarchy my man! The AU sat for the last 10 yrs watching Zim collapse, quite diplomacy let Zim down!!!Mugabe must love to hear men like you rumble on to defend him!sies! - Mafutha |
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It's little wonder..........
24/07/2008 09:38
terms like ''Afro-pessimism'' have been coined when you have people like Madibeng expressing these views - with people like this around, all I can say is heaven help Africa! Whilst the hands of Western powers are not clean, it is a fact that without their help most African countries would be even worse off than their current pathetic state. At least the West has a conscience about the wrongs of the past. China and Russia suffer no such illusions! - Alex |
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The Article DOESNT Side With Mugabe...
24/07/2008 09:39
Some people need to go back to school and work on their comprehension...The article doesnt say Mugabe must rule Zim - it's saying that the EU must stop impossing sanctions on Mugabe and High ranking officials! Why? Because the negotiation process is very volatile and these sanctions could cause Bob and his Cronies to laugh off the talks and continue their reign of terror. Rome wasn't build in a day! Give it time...if the talks don't work THEN the EU can impose sanctions. - KS |
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Enough is enough
24/07/2008 09:40
Madibeng, it should not be about East or West, Black or White, it should be about finding a solution so that the suffering can finally end. There have been too many human rights violations for too long! - Gail |
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Western meddling to ruin Zim
24/07/2008 09:41
The West's money always seems welcome in Africa, but not its concern or advice. By taking the money, the West is given an interest and has a right to object to gross human rights abuses, economic plunder and destruction, grand theft, corruption, lawlessness, rejection of the rule of law, undemocratic practises, etc. - ST - ST (S Terblanche) |
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As always...
24/07/2008 09:42
comments on these forums are never based on facts, but on emotions. The author is not against the west, nor is he for mugabe. He just wants the west to consider how mugabe sees them (the west). Mugabe is convinced (even tho he may be wrong) tht the west wants to recolonize Zim. The more they seem to interfere, the more they are proving him right. Let's allow Bob and Morgan to sort this out by themselves, please. - Fraud |
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West should interevene more
24/07/2008 09:49
I only wish the west intervened more, its a pity Zim did not have oil. Then perhaps US would have invaded them. Why should MDC settle for this, its a slap in the face of democracy. A despot gets away with murder again. It seems to be happening more frequently in Africa than elsewhere in the world. - Realist |
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Sceptical about the MDC?
24/07/2008 09:54
Your article is what's wrong with South Africa. - Rian |
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Warped sense of justice
24/07/2008 10:19
False accusations are thrown at the writer.Nowhere does he indicate that he is pro-mugabe.Most of you have a warped sense of justice.Like most unpatriotic writers in this column,the thinking is everything western is good.The west kills non europeans,you are dead silent.Africans kills and you are vocal.Criticise everything wrong and not be selective depending on colour.Nazi germany and america are the same,they kill for world domination.As for the english african,you should havd stayed in england. - Jonas |
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I don't side with YOU MADIBENG
24/07/2008 10:26
How else are you going to get money into Zim to help their economy back in order? You need sustainable investors, don't you? The West has money, they'd like to make more money (logic). They'd like to invest in an atmosphere where there are returns for the investors. Investors bring money to the economies in Africa, like it or not the west are the best investors. Why kick them out? Because of the past? CAn you change the past? NO! Why is it a basis for today's descisions? MUGABE is a wizard (bad)! - ANTI-MUGABE |
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Sigh
24/07/2008 10:34
Fair enough. Just remember next time when the AU meets and they demand to know why western relief packages and UN food are late, they need to stop, think and shut the hell up. The west pump in million of $ in relief funds yearly into Africa. Money they could?ve used to enrich themselves. I think they have a right to raise their concerns with what?s happening as well. - red |
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The perfect example
24/07/2008 10:40
This so called journalist is the perfect example of how not to write an article due to lack of relevant information or knowledge. He is completely ignorant of the circumstances that ruined Zim. - frikkie |
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Sello
24/07/2008 10:41
I like your thinking, very wise words my man.... - John Camp |
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The West!
24/07/2008 10:41
Funny how the "West' is always good for Africa and Africans when they want to go to the schools, universities, seek jobs and get medical attention (where is Levy Mwanawassa currently lying, in Paris I believe!), but they are always the cause of ALL Africa's problems and should "not meddle". Sometimes methinks that Africa has absolutely no hope of EVER getting itself out of this self-inflicted quagmire of greed, corruption, violence and genocide! - GS |
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Viva Africa
24/07/2008 10:42
Madibeng,
You are absolutley right. The west should pull out of Africa... Let Africa fend for itself... no more food aid to be given to countries that are incapabale of governing and feeding themselves... pull all the technology out as well. No Phones, no Cars, No Computers... Leave Africa Be... - The Pre X-Mas Bunny |
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