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Dream World
02/09/2008 14:49
Dude, since the ANC took over a lot of municipalities has declared bankruptcy, none of them doing WELL, this is unfortunately a downhill slump which will only stop once we hit the bottom, like our friends of Zimbabwe, stop dreaming Dude??..vote ANC - Martin |
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Hear hear
02/09/2008 14:53
Agree 100%. Let's just start delivering the goods! - Johann |
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Bravo!
02/09/2008 14:57
It should go further - we need a professional civil service at ALL levels who can competently (oh how I laugh!) implement policy decided on by politicians.
Imagine that, civil servants at national, provincial and local level whose jobs are secure from political interference and favour, diong their utmost to implement policies.
Is that my coffee I smell? - James |
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Bravo!
02/09/2008 14:59
It should go further - we need a professional civil service at ALL levels who can competently (oh how I laugh!) implement policy decided on by politicians.
Imagine that, civil servants at national, provincial and local level whose jobs are secure from political interference and favour, diong their utmost to implement policies.
Is that my coffee I smell? - James |
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Ha ha ha ha
02/09/2008 14:59
Hilarious,What makes you think they have your best interests at heart????? - James |
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Good idea.
02/09/2008 15:02
And they should do the same with parastatals too.I've heard that in most of them managers are required to have a membership card of some political party.Eish!! - boyzie |
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but...
02/09/2008 15:04
...and this is the tiny bit you missed. if you make them non political, there is still only one municipalities to choose from then. so you end up with a bunch of little monopolies just like telkom and guess what, you still have no service delivery and you still have fat cats taking all the money.
the key to making something like this work is to have more than one municipalities in an area so consumers can choose who they want to service their needs, it is a democacy after all. - lolcat |
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Well....
02/09/2008 15:08
I used to be in the public sector and I can confirm that the people there, regardless of the colour of their skin are DAYUM lazy - Pop Idol |
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What should happen...
02/09/2008 15:12
is to privatize this sector! Run this country like a business and you will see strong profit for everyone! But the right leadership should be in place first! Remove the ANC from their current position! That is the first step! - Big R |
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I support you 100%
02/09/2008 15:13
I would rather see a mayor representing the winning party, yet the CEO being an independent and fully competent person with no political connection. This CEO should then be supported by a compliance manager/s for control and audit purposes. All other positions should be free of political interference as the CEO would be independent, this should work and deal with careerism. Unfortunately you need political connection and not competence to be appointed, next year it will be just worse. - Libembe |
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Let's dream..
02/09/2008 15:17
on and imagine the calibre of people we could employ to run the Police and Health departments using just a fraction of the money we happily spend on a soccer coach. In every dream there is a kernel of truth and if we really wanted an efficiently run government at all levels it could be done.But, sadly corrupt politicians and civil [sic] servants, will always wake us to an unpleasant reality. Nice to dream, though.... - lloyd macklin |
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Municipalities are just not equipped
02/09/2008 15:19
I'm working for a Provincial Government and I deal directly with Municipalities, to tell u the truth, Municipalities in South Africa are a joke, we keep pumping money to them but they simply can't deliver due to their hiring of incompetent Municipal Managers and Technical Directors who don't have the necessary skills. the structures of Municipalities all over the country must be revised. - Mxolisi Selby Shabangu |
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Yes run it like a business
02/09/2008 15:22
and fire all those useless people that just waste money. You don't pay, you get zip. No subsidizing of people not willing to pay, just dump them. If inefficiency and non-payers were removed the municipalities wouldn't go bankrupt in the first place! - M |
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The problem is.....
02/09/2008 15:23
proportional representaion is not working we need to have some kind of constituency based system where the voters choose their candidates and not some bunch of party bigwigs in Pretoria - Mikey |
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So much for our African dream!
02/09/2008 15:27
ANC politics have really screwed things up for South Africa. The fact is there are many competent people of all races who could do a good job in the civil service if they were properly managed and motivated. But the fat cat mentality of the ANC prevents this. I hope that voters at the next election don't just vote ANC blindly, but really show this abysmal government that South Africans deserve better than greed and corruption. - alan |
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Unfortunate
02/09/2008 15:27
Well let's not forget that municipalities previosly served minority in this country and that doesn't mean i'm saying we should tolerate incompetency, it's for which ever party that control a municipalty to make sure that a councillor has basic literacy and understand fully the mandate, as i've mentioned previously the challenges faced by ANC are far greater that any political party has ever faced in this country, SO BACK OFF DETRACTORS YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE AND DECIDED TO OPPRESS OTHER PEOPLE. - Paul Montele |
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Libembe - Well said
02/09/2008 15:28
Politically independant, but best suited for the job. And accountable to the people. They should be scared of us, the people. Delivery of services, or mob justice will be done. - Sinudeity |
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No way
02/09/2008 15:28
Politics are as part of everyday life in SA as bread and milk. But that is not the major problem with municipalities. The biggest problem is the employees vs. residents ratio, it is impossible for most municipalities to cope with the demand because of constant restructuring and down sizing - Mike |
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Libembe - Well said
02/09/2008 15:34
Politically independant, but best suited for the job. And accountable to the people. They should be scared of us, the people. Delivery of services, or mob justice will be done. - Sinudeity |
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WTF
02/09/2008 15:36
You say "Politics is a volatile game by its very nature, so it makes sense to get as much out of the system as possible before you're kicked out! I'd do the same." Now that's some typical African mentality and attitude! Nice! Let?s steal from tax payers and be corrupt while we can. And when we get caught (like our friend JZ) we toi-toi and breakdown and cause chaos because it?s all some silly plot. Strange how there were no bankrupt municipalities under the previous government. This country is truly up to sh*t! - bruce |
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Privatize municipalities...
02/09/2008 15:36
and every other state-owned utility function.
Government can set up commissions to collect brides in a more direct manner, and consumers won't get nailed too hard due to competition. For the amount of money being poured into the coffers, only a professional organization will be able to handle delivery; both to crooked politicians and the public at large. - Ryan Matthews |
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U cant
02/09/2008 15:38
For all you uninformed individuals, please note that calling for profesionalisation i.e. privatisation 90% of SA do not have money to pay rates and taxes, where will a private firm get its funds from? Oh i hear you say no payment - no services, sorry the constitution prohibbits that!!!!!!!!!! - Mike |
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What the !!!
02/09/2008 15:45
I'd do the same. What a statement. You admit to being a greedy wannabe just like current bozo's in those positions. If they concentrated on service delivery and not personal enrichment their positions would be secure. Fire the lot I say. - The fisherman |
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But
02/09/2008 15:45
Consider that many councillors are likely to serve their masters i.e. political parties rather than their communities. Let the community decide to vote out a councillor that does not have their interests at heart. Problem with your solution is that no political party will appoint someone who will not implement its political agenda. Would you help create a condom dispensary if you are against such morals in the 1st place? - Len van Heerden |
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Problem with your system
02/09/2008 15:47
Someone will hire these people and it is hard to see how they will not assert their own agenda on those they employ.
Where will we get these skills, if not from the existing lot who are rotten to the core?
How would you blame a political party for lack of delivery (LOL!) if they have no control on those delivering their mandate? - LvH |
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Fantastic
02/09/2008 15:48
Fantastic ideas! I seriously do think it would make a big difference! - dave the brave! |
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We need competency!
02/09/2008 15:49
I am from Louis Trichardt in Limpopo. we used to have a neat and functional town. All that has vanished. the local council is pathetic, the only thing they care about is name changes.
If they could only show the amount of zeal and energy when it came to service delivery, we would be number one.
We have pot holes, weeds growing on the pavements in the CBD. In a few years time my town will become and archaeological dig! *throws hands in the air in depair* - Khathu |
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Great Idea
02/09/2008 15:49
Great Idea , If it will ever be concired another story. Then there would be no more fingers in the pie all over the show. While at it they should privatise the SAP as well, Make it a decent career like in 1st wolrd country's , But that something that wil only happen in wonder land !! The less the ANC controls the less they can steal.. - charlie |
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Paul Montele - "Previously Challenged"
02/09/2008 15:50
Will FOREVER be challenged. - Sinudeity |
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As I said a wonderful dream..
02/09/2008 15:55
..and then we get brought down to earth by the likes of Paul Montele who would rather have incompetence. Is it an inferiority complex that cause someone to feel that calling for competentcy is racist? Who said that the best person for the job would be of a particular colour? As for being happy with 'basic' literacy.. - lloyd macklin |
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Strong Profit from Municipalities?
02/09/2008 15:55
I suggest a system where the civil servants are rewarded for their individual efforts (not union representation). Pay those who do their job well, the market salaries while those who do not perform should be weeded out with immediate effect.
Positions should be advertised at all times and interviewers should be trained in assessing quality applicants rather than political affiliation - L van Heerden |
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Privatisation
02/09/2008 15:56
If only there were a way to make the sector part private...of course it isnt really possible! but if it were...then that would help in creating efficiency and effectiveness! Privatisation would only work in an environment where there is a profit to be made...and not just the spending of money and meeting of budgets! Most Govt budgets are blown, not cos they need to be...but because if they come in within their budget, then next year their budget is less!!!! - KS |
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ANC is BLEEDING our country dry
02/09/2008 15:57
Why was there so much fighting at Polokwane? Its because everyone is fighting for a bigger piece of the tax payer pie. With their struggle credentials, they are STILL struggling. Mind you, sitting on your ass all day, using tax monies must be nice! I PROMISE YOU. Someday, the people of South Africa, will have enough, and we will chase those corrupt individuals out with nothing but their underwear. You WILL pay for your raping of the land. - Sinudeity |
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Agree with Lindani & BigR , but how do we get rid of ANC as the 1st step?
02/09/2008 15:57
Vote will most likely go to ANC due to mass of population support. Even if the impossible happens & the ANC looses next election, AA/EE will still be around. Then it will take a Sherman tank (if we have drivers) to remove these municiple officials. Then xenophobia, then chaos again. NO! The changes will have to come from within & that can only happen if current gov policies change. This will take time IF there is the will. Don't see it yet. Will be sad if they deteriorate further to Zim levels!!! - Matrix |
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Bruce
02/09/2008 15:59
Perhaps the reason why there were no bankrupt municipalities under apartheid is because all available resources were designed to serve a small portion of the community while the rest of the people were denied access to any services or send to disfunctional homelands. Or maybe it was the fact that municipalities were employment agencies for a certain language sector of our society and hence served their masters well? You decide!!! - LvH |
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Pie in the sky
02/09/2008 16:00
"Politics is a volatile game by its very nature, so it makes sense to get as much out of the system as possible before you're kicked out! I'd do the same."
...what a lovely GREEDY attitude...the rest is just pie in the sky.
- MM |
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Municipalities
02/09/2008 16:00
Well,well the lights are starting to come on! SA used to have great municipal managers, but they were sidelined in favour of AA. Stop complaining, you did it to yourselves. VIVA ANC!!! - The truth |
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Competition
02/09/2008 16:03
Several companies in South Africa (food and medicine) have been found guilty of running cartels where they forced the prices up and the customer was worse off (that is the professionalism we seek). Banks manage to make profit after profit as a result of uncompetitive fees (private too) and not to mention the collusion between cellphone companies while MultiChoice and Sasol charge exorbitant prices. So, dream on, the private sector is also rotten. - L van Heerden |
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mpetency
02/09/2008 16:04
I think it's a great idea. I want to be next on my local council. I promise to only take what I need to retire reasonably. Then I'll leave for the next "expert", honest councillor. Do you really believe an honest, non-political appointment would be any different than the existing system. Come on! - kinglol |
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@Sinudeity - agreed
02/09/2008 16:05
Thats why, after Nov 2008, I am NOT donating any further taxes (already have tax clearance certificate) to the ANC Gov. Closing my business & emmigrating. Same for many of fellow Safricans. The ANC members will eventually have to source & finance whatever they @#$$#-up themselves. The they will turn on their own. History will prove that what they dealt out they will get back. Then watch them cry. - Matrix |
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@Paul Montele
02/09/2008 16:07
Where were the rest of the people during apartheid Paul. Were they missing and did they not receive any services at all. Please the services rendered during apartheid to the poor community is miles better than they have now. Open your eyes sir. - KAC |
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The Truth
02/09/2008 16:07
I suspect you were one of these great municipal managers serving only a handful of people in your community while the rest of the population were dumbed in segregated areas and served by incompetent stooges who served their apartheid masters? Oh well, it does not surprise me or anyone who has been reading your rants - Thembalabantubonke |
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@bruce - finally somebody was as disgusted as me
02/09/2008 16:09
I have just read this article and then went on to the comments. The more comments I read the more incredulous I became. People were agreeing 100% with what was said, "Well done!!" "100% agree" - well excuse me!! Did nobody notice that Lindani totally understands these peoples self-enrichment (read robing and defrauding) because they may only have a short time to do it so make it big, in fact he proclaims that he would do the same - or is that what you are all agreeing with? No wonder this country is so screwed up and no wonder Zuma has so many supporters threatening this country with anarchy if charges against him are not withdrawn. Good grief - the people in this country are sick. - Karen |
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Privatisation not the answer
02/09/2008 16:14
Privatisation is NOT the answer. We should clean up corruption and nepotism in the highest levels of government. When that is done people will become accountable at all levels. Privatisation puts basic services into the hands of for-profit organisations. I'm sure we can all agree that that's just replacing one type of corruption with another. We need to stop our government from making a tidy profit from our taxes and instead do the job they were elected to do! - maya |
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Privatisation not the answer
02/09/2008 16:14
Privatisation is NOT the answer. We should clean up corruption and nepotism in the highest levels of government. When that is done people will become accountable at all levels. Privatisation puts basic services into the hands of for-profit organisations. I'm sure we can all agree that that's just replacing one type of corruption with another. We need to stop our government from making a tidy profit from our taxes and instead do the job they were elected to do! - maya |
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80% of Voters
02/09/2008 16:16
Don't have access to the Internet, and 80% r illiterate, and they live in the most of the rural areas of the country and you r white brothers u have internet and you r busy sending messages that they must not vote for the ANC, then I suggest to u that u must go to these rural areas and actually give them an option to the ANC and please don't forget the Interpreters and they food parcels. - Mxolisi Selby Shabangu |
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@ Len Van heerden
02/09/2008 16:16
Its not the same as stealing tax money. Money that was meant to improve lifes of the poor( who happened to be the people voted the ANC into Power) I know of a case of 500 Mil that came from the netherlands donated for housing, That money is gone, It was handed over to ANC, The person in charge told me they are packing up and leaving. No further donations - charlie |
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Depolitisize ALL GOVERMENT
02/09/2008 16:21
Nice article! I fully support the idea of depolitisizing local goverment. All I want is reliable water supply, good roads, regular garbage removal and clean streets. No politics required! The rest of goverment also spend my tax money, so why not get competent people rather than popular people??? No kings, just workers for the people - making a better life for ALL! - JS |
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You have to have POLICY and you can't get away from politics.
02/09/2008 16:21
Municipalities need to have an agenda or targets to work to. Imagine greater Jo'burg after 1994 - but with no input from political parties. Who was going to see that electricity came to "kersie dorp" in Eldorado Park? Who would even put that on a list of action items. Somebody has to set these priorities - and who decides what's important? Ah yes... the majority. There's no getting away from it. - Big Bad Bob |
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Oh LvH
02/09/2008 16:22
You sound jealous, could you not get a job at municipal level. Why do you bring yourself down to such a low level. Ouch. Well since you brought the homelands thing up, why was it dysfunctional I wish to know from you. Taking the apartheid laws out of the equation, how were non-whites discriminated at municipal level. Housing was provided and the housing still stands as appose to RDP housing, water and electricity was not in most cases but they had free access to schools and health care and they were safe before the young brigades started slaughtering their own. If you take it that the young children uprising was opposed to being educated as their motto goes ?Liberation before education?. - KAC |
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@Libembe
02/09/2008 16:24
Sounds like a great idea, but who would appoint the CEO? I think that all facets of goverment could benefit from a similar system. Have a qualified person running the health system and have the health minister representing the organisation in parliment. But at the end of the day it is the party's responsibility to ensure that they get their advice from experts. Like any well run business, the CEO hires experts in the various fields and he manages them and gives them direction. - Rian |
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@LvH
02/09/2008 16:26
How many schools, hospitals, houses with sanitation, running water and electricity, universities, infrastructure etc. etc. did the previous government build for the so called previously disadvantage? How many of those were burnt to the ground by the very same previously disadvantaged? The previous government managed hard earned resources and funds not only (and primarily!) to look after their own people but also at others! Still it never went bankrupt. By the way, why do you think the homelands were dysfunctional? Let me give you a clue, just look around and at our current government. - bruce |
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Paul Montele
02/09/2008 16:37
Paul, I don't think any rational person would disagree that the ANC have had an uphill job of finding competent people to fill their posts. But there is a difference between incompetence and dishonesty. There is HUGE dishonesty in the ranks of the ANC - look at all the evidence - and this cannot simply be condoned by blaming history. If Africans wish to stand straight and tall in the eyes of the world, the corruption and greed HAS to be cleaned up, not so? - doug |
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"Previous Goverment" and service delivery
02/09/2008 16:37
COME ON PEOPLE! We are NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PAST! We are looking for solutions for the present and for the future! Pull your HEAD out of the sand and STOP BICKERING! I DONT CARE how the municipalities were run for the 'minority' during apartheid! WE NEED TO FIX IT NOW! IM SICK of BLACK/WHITE RACISTS! But, Im EVEN MORE SICK OF CORRUPTION/RAPE/MURDER. - Sinudeity |
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Privatisation not the answer
02/09/2008 16:40
all of you should be aware that the apartheid govrnment tried to force the rand water board to shut off water to 'black' areas. They refused. so before you assume anything about the quality of life non-whites lived, do a bit of research. why do you think people would turn to violence, if they were being so 'looked after'. most people just want to live peacefully. The struggle was a terrible thing to live through and many died or had their families torn apart. it was not taken on lightl - maya |
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Fire the coaches then...!!
02/09/2008 16:40
I work closely with muni's. If it's not the political structure infighting it's the administrative side. To depolitisise is simplistic - councilors of the various wards making up the muni have to ultimately be accountable to voters - we can't toss democracy cos it sounds like a good idea all of a sudden. But with a Municipal Manager earning 75k pm and Mayor 45 to 65K pm one would expect competancy, and I assure you it's NOT... - JEDI |
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tell it to the anc
02/09/2008 16:43
so tell that to the ruling party - who seem to believe the country is theirs - fern |
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not a chance in hell...
02/09/2008 16:46
will politicians let go of power in any form or manner... so you can just kiss your wish to de-politicise municipalities bye bye - Pensive |
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Good thinking but...
02/09/2008 16:47
... that would mean responsible leadership from our government. Not going to happen. They're all too busy jostling for position at the trough (just like most of the municipal managers). - halitosis_for_all |
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Local Municipalities
02/09/2008 17:00
Local Councils can be run properly and can be self-sustainable with the funds avaialable. Management and Implementation is the problem. Run it like a business, there's so much potential and in the end can create 'a better life for all'. - Pietbril |
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Big Bad Bob
02/09/2008 18:09
Agree with you. The problem is that the winning political party will be held responsible for lack of non-delivery. Therefore, if you were to be held liable, shouldn't you have the right to appoint the people that will foresee to the implementation of your policies? An independent CEO driving his own agenda will end up with his own agenda, as happen in the private sector anyway. - LvH |
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@Mxolisi
02/09/2008 18:14
If the local governments had done their jobs well, the need for food parcels would be less. I am very sure that no head of any(even small) municipalities go to bed hungry. Food is not a trade-off in the acquisition of voters. Sustainability in communities though could prove to be a good reason to vote for the ruling party, but only if they can deliver the necessary infrastructures to help the people feed themselves. It will give people one real reason to vote. - paul van der schyff |
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KAC
02/09/2008 18:14
I presume you are not too intelligent, as you would have recognised how stupid and uninformed your post is. Next thing, you will tell us apartheid was about equal opportunities for all and that apartheid build housing for all and never enacted any racist and separatist policies, never mind allocating almost all resources to the enjoyment and fulfillment of white expectations. Well, when you do, look in the mirror and notice the twitch in your forehead. - LvH |
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Facts
02/09/2008 18:28
Since 1994, 500 houses have been built each day for the poor
Since 1994 a further 21 percent of the population now receives electricity, 23 percent receives improved sanitation and 26 percent of the population now have access to clean water.
http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/benchmarking_progress/living_standards_have_improved_stats_sa.html to make you weep - Len v Heerden |
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http://www.queensu.ca/msp/pages/Project_Publications/News/rules.htm
02/09/2008 18:36
"David McDonald of Queens University said the heavily subsidised municipal services white Capetonians had in the 1970s and 1980s were still supplied.
A survey of each of the 13 water and 33 waste depots revealed that per capita distribution of public resources for water delivery and waste management was seriously skewed along race and class lines.
McDonald said "One hundred times the resources are available in many historically white suburbs as are available in black townships." - Len v Heerden |
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Dream On
02/09/2008 18:41
Local municipalities are all about self enrichment. Compare the salary expense as a percentage of the total expenditure. It is scary how much is wasted on overinflated salaries. Ask anyone who has ever been on a municipal audit. - Trevette |
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Positions
03/09/2008 06:39
IF AA is implemented as it would be in choosing candidates to run these municipalities etc as a CEO, CFO y9ou would still get ANC aligned people in place, so it would not change as much as you think, although getting qualified people in would be a start! - AJ |
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Len's Facts - for or against
03/09/2008 06:42
Len, are your facts in support of the government or a complaint? Perhaps others parties would have built 1000 per day, or supplied electricity to 28% etc etc. I am not sure what your point is? - AJ |
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