| |
|
|
| |
@Tshepo
05/09/2008 11:11
Better watch out bru, the bricks are coming :) - Thembalabantubonke |
|
 |
| |
Poor or not poor
05/09/2008 11:11
BEE should only apply to previously dissadvantaged over the age of 25. No point in disadvantaging the youth. 25 and younger should be allowed to participate in all transactions. - Brian |
|
|
| |
Good article, but...
05/09/2008 11:14
Your point about "what white people term poor whites still pales in comparison to what black people call poor blacks" is incorrect.
Go to some of the informal settlements where the poor whites live and you will see. I have seen both the black poor and white poor for myself, and believe me, the poor whites are just as completely in misery and abject poverty. - Oom_Kosie |
|
|
| |
Poor is Poor
05/09/2008 11:14
Poor people are poor people, and it is our responsibality to help them if they qualify, except and look for our help. Anything less than that would be cruel and inhumane. - fiellies |
|
|
| |
Less than 7.8%...
05/09/2008 11:16
The remaining few white people in SA make up approximately 7.8% of the population. On a personal level I can safely say that not all of them are massively wealthy, so we don't rule all things financial in the country - contra to popular belief... Why is it then, that we constantly have to defend our posessions & our right to better ourselves. I NEVER BENIFITTED from a racist system which I opposed VERY VOCALLY. Why not make the deal open to households with an income of less than X. - sarah |
|
|
| |
Empowerment should be based on poverty
05/09/2008 11:17
I think lenience should take place and flexibility must be implemented in empowerment deals - if you poor you poor and the Government should support you irrespective of race. Only in this country would we be debating how poor people should be classified and there's a peking order in poverty - what rubbish. Support the bottom - white or black - these people need the support! - Peter Black |
|
|
| |
Just wrong!
05/09/2008 11:17
Everyday everyone in SA moans about racism and that poeple should be equal and get a long, but then companies put forward a new kind of racism like mentioned here. A year or 2 ago there was a similiar shares deal in which only Blacks could buy into..HOW is that not racism? I'm sorry with rules like that you will struggle to change my view on Blacks, BEE and everything else corrupt in this country! - RB |
|
|
| |
Tshepo, Maybe??? we need to go back to basics.
05/09/2008 11:17
BB/BEE originally was a noble idea, i.e. as apposed to disenfranchisement of people, the idea was to grow economy & advantage those previously disadvantaged. Economics dictate (as you reflected) that poor dont have the finances to invest, whereas middle & low income earners have been able to squeze some investment. If allowed, these people will invest & this in turn would generate more wealth to be shared with more, even disadvantaged. Only way I can think of striking a balance. Sasol, Telkom egs - Matrix |
|
|
| |
Poor whites benefitting from BEE?
05/09/2008 11:18
it wont work because poor people don't have R2500 to spend on shares. - tshepo |
|
|
| |
BEE Debate
05/09/2008 11:20
That is the whole debate about BEE. I'd much rather see share options like the Vodacom one than that of the Telkom Elephant consortium deal. AT least Vodacom is trying to enrich the masses not only a few fat cats who dont deserve it. I do believe in BEE like this but not when it comes to appointing people who cant do their jobs. Thats the prob with our scenario. Service delivery is terrible. It may be empowering some but the people on the receiving end are disempowered. Makes no sense! - Greg |
|
|
| |
Fat Cats Get Ritcher
05/09/2008 11:20
How do you define a poor black, if they are poor where does the money come from to purchase the shares (can not be that poor). Again when we are trying to break down racial barriers along comes something that stirs the pot, are we not all equal in this democracy, no more discrimination bases on skin colour. This is just another way for the Fat Black Cats to enrich themselfs further, as they are the only one who benefit under BEE. The Risch Blacks get ritcher why the poor continue to suffer. - Fred |
|
|
| |
Previously disadvantaged
05/09/2008 11:21
Being previously disadvantaged (under apartheid)means currently advantaged. Being currently disadvantaged (under BEE,BBEEE, AA) means infuture you will be previously disadvantaged. Where are we going. Lets look at the "POOR" and help them (us). There is a saying: "Every time history repeats itself the price goes up". Lets make new history and steer away from the repeats (read doing the wrong thing again). - SM |
|
|
| |
Interesting...
05/09/2008 11:22
Having looked at the vodacom deal I can say tht Vodacom are clearly not interested in empowering anybody, let alone the 'poor' white folk. The share price offers no discount and you are locked into the deal over a prolonged period ! So wheres the upside ?
Wrt to ur question, my only comment is that the injustices of centuries cannot be erased in 14yrs remember that white folk...at least you have the option to leave the country back then there was no means to leave. - Masti |
|
|
| |
If a white can afford.....
05/09/2008 11:22
the shares... then he is not poor, but a black can afford shares and he is poor?? please....
and then, please tell me the Mr. Sexwale is poor!! BBBEEE is a farce and we need all people to be equal! from top to bottom... - Hobbs |
|
|
| |
Too poor to buy shares
05/09/2008 11:23
Well, if the poor whites are too poor to buy shares, then surely the poor blacks are also too poor to buy shares, so what benefit is there for them in the scheme. Now if there are other vehicles used to purchase shares, the proceeds of which will go to the poor blacks, then surely the poor whites should have access to the same mechanism. We are not suggesting that the "poor" purchusers of the shares are not really poor, just taking advantage of the rules, are we?? - PP |
|
|
| |
Tshepo
05/09/2008 11:23
I was pondering this issue myself, then a prominent DJ asked the question "if you're a poor white, how did you get that way?".We have to remember that BEE was intended to uplift the previously disadvantaged majority, not just a few. What would the rationale be behind allowing people who previously had the oppotunity to invest, but didnt? - VG |
|
|
| |
Equal?
05/09/2008 11:24
Everybody is equal - but some of us are more equal than others! - Equal |
|
|
| |
How poor are whites?
05/09/2008 11:24
If they can afford the shares? Then equally how poor are blacks if they can afford the shares? Once again the "initiative" only benefits the group that already has suffcient money to buy shares. No real benefit for either poor whites or blacks. There is no balance in BEE - just imbalance. - TB |
|
|
| |
@Thepo, Also support your views & call for the abolishment of unfair
05/09/2008 11:24
exclusion of any kind. Simple logic interpretation (my opinion) is that if powers that be, remove these bias obstacles, all SAfricans will benefit in various ways. 1) The now younger generation will become educated & experienced in wealth creation. 2) Past generations was NOT involved with this (lack of opportunities / knowledge / experience / whatever?) processes & lost out. 3) by growing wealth for all, more tax generated, which may result in lowering of taxes, more job creation, more wealth,.? - Matrix |
|
|
| |
Easy Answer
05/09/2008 11:25
Get ride of BEE and replace with PEE. Poor Economic Empowerment. - AndyC |
|
|
| |
Whites are still greedy, you want it all to yourselves!
05/09/2008 11:25
I cannot believe that the little being shared to try and balance the scale is now wanted by whites. Please do not be greedy let us the black catch up with "you people". What is a poor white anyway besides the lazy bummers at te robots. I just toll up my window - no giving of money to a white beggar!!! Anyway let me not divert from the point. - mxhosakazi |
|
|
| |
"How poor are they really?"
05/09/2008 11:25
"If a white person can afford to buy shares, how poor are they really?" This does not enter into the discussion, because exactly the same can be said about black people.
Dirk Hermann is not the chairperson of Solidarity, he is the Deputy General Secretary. Flip Buys is the General Secretary. Dirk Hermann is the executive director of Solidarity's Helping Hand as well. Solidarity says that BEE seeks to empower disempowered people. Do rich "black diamonds" need empowerment more than poor whites? - Oom_Kosie@hotmail.com |
|
|
| |
BEE-helping the cause along
05/09/2008 11:25
Until ALL South Africans stop distinguishing between black, white, pink and purple, we will continue to be a bitter racist society well into the future! BEE is just helping this cause along!
I like blacks,I like whites. No difference to me. - Marc |
|
|
| |
How to strike a balance?
05/09/2008 11:25
Hmmm,how about scrapping BEE altogether and letting everyone compete on an equal footing for the first time in this racially obsessed country's history? - The Truth |
|
|
| |
How about this?
05/09/2008 11:26
What if we reward everyone for their hard work. The value that they bring to the country and the skills that they cultivate. No free hand outs, no preferential treatment at all. All work ethic reward! BUT and this is a huge but, Provide opportunity and infrastructure to the previously disadvantaged. Thus, schools bursaries for university, and health care etc. Enable people to learn and become great, rather than pseudo equality. let everyone EARN their achievements. - Tim |
|
|
| |
Calculus
05/09/2008 11:26
Tshepo, your perception that whites can?t be as poor as blacks is flawed. That's the first step to acknowledge, that not only blacks are suffering. Percentage wise there are many more blacks that are poor, but then there are 10 times as many blacks in SA than Whites, so naturally a higher percentage of blacks are poor, compared to the percentage of poor whites. Regardless though, why should blacks alone be given an opportunity here. If the playing fields are level, and black Joe is as poor as white Joe, then surely they both should be considered. - Tshepo |
|
|
| |
Tshepo
05/09/2008 11:26
Well then , according to your friend's logic,if a black person can afford to buy shares,how poor are THEY really?hmmm?Excluding people in an offer based on their ethnicity is,guess what,racism. With their offer,everyone in South Africa are eligible for this deal,except the white people.Where did vodacom benefit white folks during apartheid, that they now have to make up for?I have been a loyal customer for 10 years,but after this blatant racism,my contract is not being renewed. - Viparo |
|
|
| |
ITS POINTLESS
05/09/2008 11:27
the people buying shares in the first place are not the poor ones. This country is very racialy divided already and things like BEE and race quatas are making it even more so. This has been a Democracy for 15 years and in some ways it looks more divided than in 94. Every argument and disagreement ends up being a mudd-slinging match, with blacks siding with blacks and whites with whites. It's disgusting. - ALL MAN |
|
|
| |
Farce
05/09/2008 11:27
If poor whites who can afford to buy shares are not really that poor, then surely the blacks who can afford to buy them dont need to benefit from a BEE deal either. It demonstrates that BBBEEE is a farce and is discriminatory. I say that equal opportunity is equal opportunity thus there is no place for BBBEE because it is exclusive. - James |
|
|
| |
Empowerment?
05/09/2008 11:28
How to strike a balance yes? You say "if a white person can afford to buy shares, how poor are they really?" Then by the same rationale if a black person can afford shares have they not already been economically empowered? It needs to be about the poor and the only fair way would be a means test, which is unfortunately to cumbersome. - Eegee |
|
|
| |
BBBEE
05/09/2008 11:28
One question put forward is, "how poor is a white person if they can afford to buy shares". Doesn't that count for anyone who can afford to buy shares?
However, BEE is exactly that, Black Economic Empowerment. So whites don't qualify under this heading. If we want to empower, economically, all the poorer peoples of SA, then maybe this area needs to be revisited and a new/other plan put forward. - Confushus |
|
|
| |
So who draws the line?
05/09/2008 11:29
My question then is, the previously disadvantaged is still disadvantaged because how many of those could afford to buy shares if they cannot even by a loaf of bread, these deals are not for the average PDI, it is merely there for the select few who already has shares in Sasol, Telkom and Media24, as they are the only ones that can afford, when will the playing fields be levelled, when will all of us share in the rainbow nation of SA? - Marius |
|
|
| |
3@Thepo, lastly, the principle we must strive for, must obviously be...
05/09/2008 11:29
Grow the economy, by empowering all, to the benefit of all, & everyone sharing equally. NOT, when the economy shrinks, disenfranchise one group in favour of another. Fairness towards all will get the support of most, then we would all be a happier nation. I am convinced that whichever party has the guts to do this, will increase their votes. Now tell me who do we vote for??? None of the existing parties follow such a principle. - Matrix |
|
|
| |
SICK!!
05/09/2008 11:31
This racially based schemes SICKENS me! Funny how vodacom has NO PROBLEM charging white people for using theire network and becoming subscribers, but does not allow them to buy shares! SICK SICK SICK! - Juan |
|
|
| |
Control
05/09/2008 11:31
Who will still have the power after this share offering? Do anyone think poor blacks will really benefit from this hoax? For me it makes no difference if so-called poor whites buys shares. Just tax them on profits as well and use that money to uplift the real poor people! Why should we pay for something that is already ours! - Rhapelang |
|
|
| |
Well argued, but
05/09/2008 11:31
...a danger of these BEE concepts is that they are now creating a "currently and future disadvantage" group. Will this also be corrected in the future? "A friend of mine countered that if a white person can afford to buy shares, how poor are they really?" : then how disadvantaged is the previous disadvantaged groups if THEY can afford shares? I do appreciate your insight, though. - HT |
|
|
| |
this sounds like a good idea
05/09/2008 11:31
and this is deffintely a way forward for the new south africa. At the end of the day we want all south africans to be well off not just a few whites and a few blacks. As it stands there not that many white people in this country with the number declining daily. There are more well off blacks than whites. PS only a few white people were rich pre 1990 not all as you so claim. This idea is positive for SA and will help curb poverty it is not fair to just curb black poverty... - terence |
|
|
| |
BEE is an Racist Policy
05/09/2008 11:32
How can King Goodwell Zwelithini, The Bafikeng's or the Black Multi Billionaires be "previously disadvantaged"
Just because of their "line of birth" they have acquired riches far beyond comprehension.
I dare anybody to proof to me that under apartheid a system like BEE was used to enrich Afrikaners.
BEE is nothing other than steeling, the 8th command says that, "though shall not steel"
The people that partake in this evil practice is just as guilty as the architects. You have been warned. - Juan |
|
|
| |
BEE to CEE
05/09/2008 11:33
BEE should be scrapped in favour of CEE ? Citizen Economic Empowerment. Only then will we see inroads into the alleviation of poverty. Basing any sort of empowerment on criteria such as race will only lead to more resentment and alienation. The previously disadvantaged has had enough time to create a more advantageous future for themselves; 14 years is ample time to weed oneself off handouts. Schemes such as Vodacom?s and every other so called BEE scheme should be made available to all in South - Blood_Doll (Previously Disadvantaged) |
|
|
| |
At what stage
05/09/2008 11:34
do you stop being disadvantaged? It pisses me off to see black owned companies getting contract after contract due to their BEE status and in the procees pass their white counterparts in terms of wealth but they still receive preferential treatment. - Hakuna Matata |
|
|
| |
Tshepo - Thought Provoking Indeed
05/09/2008 11:36
When a company is offering a "BEE" deal blatantly only for a scorecard, the share offer should be open to EVERYBODY but with perhaps limited share allocations based on PDI staus and wealth status. The CDI's (Currently Disadvantaged Individuals) - nasmely poor whites are the ones suffering the most. Disgraceful. - Filemon |
|
|
| |
It has to be asked
05/09/2008 11:36
It has to be asked who this deal is going to help get richer? The poor or the already rich? And yes it is only about getting rich, not about development of the previously disadvantage. It has to be asked what would have happened in this country if BEE deals was graded on development purely, i.e. paying for education, really empowering people (regardless of race), giving them skills, as appose to window dressing and only making the rich blacks richer. - HDog |
|
|
| |
@ VG
05/09/2008 11:37
VG, go to the poor white communities yourself and talk to the people. A great number of them have been extremely poor (as in so poor they had to beg for daily bread) for much more than 14 years. Others were in what you could call the "lower middle class" before 1990, but were plunged into poverty after forced severance packages and AA policies. They NEVER had the opportunity to invest anything, they were never "advantaged" or rich. Now they are being "punished" because some whites are rich. - Oom_Kosie |
|
|
| |
@VG
05/09/2008 11:38
It is wrong to suppose that all white people are/were rich. Some have always been poor. What bothers me most about BEE is that the same ANC cadres get empowered again and again and again. - jn |
|
|
| |
huh???
05/09/2008 11:38
"A friend of mine countered that if a white person can afford to buy shares, how poor are they really? "
DOES THAT SAME ARGUMENT WORK THE OTHER WAY?
If a black person can afford to buy shares how poor are they really?
- Jason |
|
|
| |
handouts
05/09/2008 11:40
If the system of upliftment made provision for evidence in efforts then it would work, as long as people receive handouts they will stay poor and dependent! - Mike |
|
|
| |
VG & CO
05/09/2008 11:40
"What would the rationale be behind allowing people who previously had the oppotunity to invest, but didnt? - VG" what a silly thing to say what makes you think all white people were rich and could invest you are seriously ignorant young chap. How is government sorting out poverty by making its white minority poor or is the white minority not included in the poverty stats??? i asume the latter - Terence |
|
|
| |
Its a cheeck of Vodacom
05/09/2008 11:40
To expect poor poeple black and white to rather buys sheares in their companie instead of buying food and basics ?? Or are these shares given away to the poor ? If thats the case color should not be a guideline as to who gets and who dont , If that the case , Vodacom and BEE is nothing less than apartheid was , - charlie |
|
|
| |
BEE my @rse
05/09/2008 11:40
How can you(Vodacom) say they are guna empower the poor Black people. You can't get water out of a stone? If they dont have money to feed and clothe themselves, how are they guna buy shares. This share deal is for stinking rich Blacks to get richer. The fact that they are excluding whites who help make Vodacom the company it is today, Sucks. I will be of To Virgin soon - Nick |
|
|
| |
Confused
05/09/2008 11:42
"if a white person can afford to buy shares, how poor are they really?" Does this mean the shares will be given to black people? If not, the same argument goes for black people. - HRHBeetjie |
|
|
| |
No-go for whites in BEE deal
05/09/2008 11:43
It doesn't help to reconcile n reconstruct poor with rich. We as black people we were stripped of our wellbeing and land as well, education and finances. taken to the township bcoz we were considered as (LABOUR RESOURES). Most of black people, are domestic workers working for the vwery same whites you claim to be poor. WE need to be careful of meaning of POOR, it differs with colour. Poor black person is living in a shack in a family of 8, whereas white person is own a flat, security supervisor. - Mandla |
|
|
| |
@VG, Interesting comments, but????
05/09/2008 11:44
You state BEE was intended to uplift the poor, BUT does this by interpretation mean that that would disadvantage non-previously disadvantaged? My interpretation is/was that BEE should uplift the poor, BUT NOT make previously advantaged poor. In my opinion that is exactly what happened & therefore everyone is poorer. Read my previous comments, i.e. my view is that they did not invest because they were uneducated in terms of investment, only savings. Again my view is that most were corp workers. - Matrix |
|
|
| |
good article
05/09/2008 11:44
thanks tshepo , we should all realise that poverty affects all races and it's our human duty to help all poor people. - s |
|
|
| |
This is exactly why i am moving my business ...
05/09/2008 11:44
to another service provider!! I am white and should not be excluded if SA is supposedly a racially undevided country!! - Big R |
|
|
| |
dumb suggestion
05/09/2008 11:45
black ppl get preferential treatment in BEE deals because they were previously excluded in participating in the economy of this country and we need to address those inequalities that clearly exist. Poor whites are poor because they are stupid or could not take hold of the opportunities that were given to them since the turn of the past CENTURY!!!! So please, my heart bleeds lumpy custard for poor whites, but they will not get a share in BEE - Nada |
|
|
| |
South Africa shrugged
05/09/2008 11:45
Tshepo you raize very valid points. What about the non-politic whites and blacks that carried this country even through the apartheid days which as individuals had no part in the injustice? We are all today reaping the rewards from their achievements (science, technology infrastracture etc.) Some whites and blacks are even mentoring each other to transfer skills, expertiece and knowledge, but how do you reconcile this with BEE and unequal opportunity for only those white parents kids? - Justice |
|
|
| |
Vodacom discriminating against whiteys
05/09/2008 11:45
Every cent spent on Vodacaom is support for discrimnation against whites. That's it, plain and simple! - TC |
|
|
| |
thr gap widens
05/09/2008 11:46
The problem is that only the rich blacks can aquire shares widening the gap! I think its bullll and will never work our people should be educated and industries investing in skills dev! Then our people will be truly sustainably empowerd - vivjustice |
|
|
| |
Tshepo
05/09/2008 11:46
"if you're a poor white, how did you get that way?" What a stupid question! Do you think that when white people were born the government automatically deposited a million into their bank account? Do you think all white people are born rich or just somehow become rich? How the hell did Sexwale and his brothers become billionaires so quickly? By working for it? - Evert |
|
|
| |
BEE al that
05/09/2008 11:46
Is nothing less than racism , I am busy working with alot of big busines owners (white) Working on a plan to let them het rid of all their black staff and only employ white people , further more only do business with white people ,We do no need govermunt contracts and there for dont need to be BEE and there for dont need to employ black people as simple as that ! - tiekies |
|
|
| |
Control
05/09/2008 11:47
Who will still have the power after this share offering? Do anyone think poor blacks will really benefit from this hoax? For me it makes no difference if so-called poor whites buys shares. Just tax them on profits as well and use that money to uplift the real poor people! Why should we pay for something that is already ours! - Rhapelang |
|
|
| |
rich blacks, poor blacks
05/09/2008 11:47
all blacks can buy these shares, including the super rich BEE boys and thus become even richer. it should be limited to poor blacks only otheriwse its pretty counter productive.
- ben |
|
|
| |
Vodacom
05/09/2008 11:48
All the white vodacom users cancel their contracts and simply support Cell C / MTN Let see the impact on their turnover - RE |
|
|
| |
BEE 4 whites
05/09/2008 11:48
I disagree with them. What happens 10 - 20 years down the line when poor black people (for whatever reason that caused them to be poor) demand sale of discounted shares of companies because they are poor? The point of BEE is to give previously disadvantaged people i.e. those who were not allowed to partake in the economy a chance to do so. This is not making them rich by any means because there is a risk (no matter small it is currently) that Vodacom will go under and investments lost. - Pasta |
|
|
| |
@ Brian
05/09/2008 11:49
BEE should only apply to previously dissadvantaged over the age of 25. No point in disadvantaging the youth. 25 and younger should be allowed to participate in all transactions. I agree with you i.t.o. age limit. This is not only fair, but will get rid of the animosity from the white community. - Mzekezeke |
|
|
| |
Vodacom just lost..
05/09/2008 11:49
my subscription. - Currently Disadvantaged |
|
|
| |
BEE is for the previously disadvataged...
05/09/2008 11:50
not only the previously poor(see the Chinesse). Some people are confusing the issue here. Im not poor yet i was previously disadvantaged, thus why im buying Vodacom shares for my pops who can't do it for himself because of the Apartheid regime.
A poor white became poor for different reasons to a black person, the solution to that problem cannot be addressed through BEE. - tshepo |
|
|
| |
mxhosakazi
05/09/2008 11:51
What do you think i do with black beggars? Exactly the same as you so its fine bru! - Evert |
|
|
| |
Poor whites
05/09/2008 11:51
I have no sympathy for these "poor whites". They had over 40 years of being given a better education and having the best jobs reserved for them. If they are still poor after that, then they just didn't take advantage of their opportunities. Vodacom is not running a charity for no-hopers. They are spreading the wealth to those who were really previously disadvantaged. - Clare |
|
|
| |
Vodacom
05/09/2008 11:52
Wake up everyone, stop this black and white stories. Vodacom is catching all by getting nice free advertising and lock in dedicated customer for long. If you are a Vodacom shareholder, would you by MTN??? - phine |
|
|
| |
Vodacom...
05/09/2008 11:52
does not include only blacks, but ALL other races EXCEPT white! Go check out the share details!! I'm moving to VirginMobile!! These racist vodacom PIGS!! - Big R |
|
|
| |
What a Farce.....
05/09/2008 11:53
Isn't it strange how many participants on this forum and columnists on New 24 regularly declare that SA is a "democracy" yet here we have a well-known company planning to issue shares to a section of the population based solely on race and on nothing else, with the full blessing of our "democratic" government. Democracy my ass..... - Cynical |
|
|
| |
@Matsi
05/09/2008 11:53
I don't know where you get the idea from that whites have the option of leaving the country? I'm a 4th generation white south african, I have no british passport and countries won't let me in just because I'm white. Poor white south africans are out of options and treating them like this is just as evil as apartheid was. Sugarcoat it as much as you like, but racism against whites is still racism. - Chris |
|
|
| |
Why dont all the Black
05/09/2008 11:54
Billionaires dont share their wealth with all the poor black people , Surely the Sexahwale's Motsepe's shaiks Etc can help all their poeple they so worried about out the dumps ? Would they is the qeustion or do they love their money to much ? - charlie |
|
|
| |
are these shares real?
05/09/2008 11:54
I have a problem with these BEE deals, i don't care that's its for blacks only, but that principle that you're tied ito owning the shares for x amount of time before selling them off, that's not investment freedom. Who knows where this country is going to be in 5 years. With the Altech case, where will vodacom be seeing as they're telkom owned really.
The shares are hold no real value in the open market. who's being empowered? - Gareth |
|
|
| |
@VG
05/09/2008 11:54
The same question to be asked from the "alknowing DJ" is: "if you are a poor black, how did you get that way. The answer is going to be the same. Because someone was preventing me from earning a decent living. It is amazing how many people still practice, "2 wrongs = 1 right". If you are poor you are poor by any definition and colour. The hard earned democracy is just another word in a dictionary and not part of the new SA. How sad. - SM |
|
|
| |
Advantage - Fat Cats
05/09/2008 11:55
if you actually read the purchase documentation, it will be patently clear that the purchase of the shares is not aimed at the disenfranchised(past or present).R2500 for 100 shares is hardly empowerment. Its just another moneymaking scheme to make the rich richer and Vodacom compliant. Its a bloody joke - Sean |
|
|
| |
BEE
05/09/2008 11:56
The poor white Afrikaaner rates amongst the poorest tree in the WORLD, not just SA. And for the question raised how can they afford shares, by the same token how to poor black people afford shares. BEE sucks man - Jawellnofine |
|
|
| |
mandla
05/09/2008 11:56
unfortunately our black brothers living in the shacks are not the ones able to buy the shares. Please think for yourself the majority of black people that will be getting these shares are already well off. I agree on the motion that somehow all poor south africans black and white should be eligable for any sort of deal which shall cure poverty. - makondo |
|
|
| |
BEE
05/09/2008 11:57
I was under the impression the shares are for the previously disadvantaged ? those who were disadvantaged before 1994, it is assumed all whites were advantaged before 1994 and we dont know how true that is, Whites who live below the poverty line NOW shouldn?t even influence the BEE deal. WE are talking previously disadvantaged not currently disadvantaged by the way how disadvantaged are they if the can afford the shares? Tokyo is previously disadvantaged good people,and so are the rich black cats - Lindo |
|
|
| |
@mxhosakazi
05/09/2008 11:57
I agree with you that SOME of these whites begging at traffic lights are just lazy bums. And believe me those are too zonked out to even care for shares. But not all poor whites are like that. Go to Genadeplaas in Pretoria and see for yourself. If you won't give poor whites money, then should I now stop giving to poor blacks? We are all human inside, no matter the colour inside! Not that any colour poor people can afford those shares. - HT |
|
|
| |
Whites made hay while the sun shined.
05/09/2008 11:57
BEE is a awarding people who were previously not given a chance, a chance to contribute, as well as have a stake in wealth terms in the country. Reason y it's limited to black is that, During apartheit white people benefited whether in support of apartheid or not.Problem is that it's not implemented well.If I was white I would also feel neglection from participation.Cant please every1.Unfair imbalance in wealth will encourage such programes.Most whites r wealth, Some blacks r rich.Most r poor.BEE - Black |
|
|
| |
Rhapelang
05/09/2008 11:58
'Why should we pay for something that is already ours!' - What are talking bout Rhapelang? What is already yours. Surely you don't mean Vodacom. You may be indigenous to Africa but you did invent the cellphone or help build Vodacom. So what are you talking about. I for one am not for or against BEE but it is not intended to benefit the POOR but rather the all BLACKS hence the name Black Economic Empowerment. - NotBiased |
|
|
| |
What makes you a PDI?
05/09/2008 11:58
PDI or typical African? Get's the goodies by making whitey the baddie and instigating the apartheid guit trip. THIS BEE IS UNETHICAL and will be challenged in future. Blacks NEVER paid taxes to the RSA government in 300 years. Disadvantaged? My arse. It's the open-hand-syndrome. I just cancelled 3 Vodacom contracts. The currently advantaged can support Vodacom. CellC...here I come! - Andre |
|
|
| |
Terence et al
05/09/2008 11:58
The point behind BEE is to re-distribute resources. I'm not denying the existence of poor whites or trying to minimise their plight. All I am saying is that prior to 94 black peole were not allowed to invest on the JSE BY LAW - even if they could afford to. Even now you will get poor blacks who will not be able to afford the offering. Schemes like this simply serve to increase the participation of black people on JSE and other parts of the economy because we are the majority in this country. - VG |
|
|
| |
@Clare
05/09/2008 11:59
Are you dillusional? No really, are you? Yes, they had 40 years, which has since been taken away and given to a black person. So yes, there are going to be poor whites but you can't blame them for losing everything. Also, by your argument there should be no poor blacks now either. Idiot. - L |
|
|
| |
Maybe
05/09/2008 11:59
Well, i'm it is a daily song for from a large section of white people to always moan and riducle BEE,AA yet they provide little solution to what needs to be done, all they are interested in is their narrow interest, we all know that this country hasn't transformed, look around you and tell me if this country is transformed? I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE DAY WHEN BLACKS REALLY LOOSE THEIR PATIENT, THEN YOU CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT THE REAL THING BECAUSE YOU WILL BE EVACAUTED,FOR NOW IT'S DONE CORRECTLY TILL WHEN - Paul Montele |
|
|
| |
mandla what land
05/09/2008 12:00
you are as much a foreinger in this country as i am your ancestors stole the land they have/had from the original inhabitants of south africa so dont come with this kak that your land was stolen that is an old story now well past its sell by date. - Terence |
|
|
| |
BEE
05/09/2008 12:00
We have got a nation of people that like to destroy, burn and mutilate people and property when they disagree or cannot get their way. If we do not agree with BEE, boycott those organisation that encourage it, burn the place down etc. Go the the Vodacom building in JHB and burn it down. - Steve |
|
|
| |
@ VG
05/09/2008 12:00
You seem to be assuming that poor white people is a new thing. "Po |
Get Published on MyNews24
