De Villiers's prediction absurd

07/02/2008 09:52

JJ Harmse

It was quite a surprise to hear national coach Peter de Villiers say that he expects at least three South African sides to make the semi-finals of the 2008 Super 14. He either is a big optimist by nature or is just not well informed about the rigors of the competition.

Also, it seems, he has not fully studied the impact of the departure of players like Victor Matfield, John Smit and Brent Russell will have on the depth of their respective playing squads.

Yes, there are many good things in South African rugby, but by making statements like that, the national coach is in for a hiding to nothing.

Then I realised that De Villiers has very limited experience of the Super 14 competition. Granted, it was no fault of his own. He was available to all the franchises, but was not used by any of them and never got the chance to compete in the competition with the aborted Southern Spears concept.

New faces

Maybe he honestly believes that three sides can make the semis, but he is probably the only one who does. One only needs to look at the history of the competition to understand how hard it will be for ONE side to make it to the last four. Nothing, but nothing less than an 'A'-game performance every weekend will be required for our sides to be competitive. Anything else will result in failure.

Forget the fact that New Zealand's sides will have almost 40 new faces or the fact that the Reds will use club players by the end of the competition. Our teams have also suffered a massive loss in depth and experience is the key to a successful competition.

Every South African side has lost crucial players. The Bulls will not be able to replace Victor Matfield, the Cheetahs have lost three Springbok props and the Lions two Springboks in the scrum. Not to mention the Stormers who will be without the experience at Super 14 level that De Wet Barry and Brent Russell provided.

More effective

Yes, one can argue that the likes of Barry, Ollie le Roux and Russell were past their sell-by dates, but it is not that simple.

Barry's influence in the Stormers defensive patterns and mindset, for example, is not going to be replaced in one season. Defensive structures only get better over time and become more and more effective as players learn to trust the person on his inside or outside.

Looking at the South African teams, they've all lost vital cogs in their defensive structures.

The Sharks had Butch James, who not only was an abrasive defender himself, but also organised a lot of their alignment from phase play.

Someone else will have to step-up to take over that role. Let's presume it will be Brad Barritt. How long before the communication between himself and France's Michalak on his inside will be perfected? I am not even referring to a possible language barrier, but to the instinctive reactions one can only get from playing next to someone for a long period.

Years to replace

The Bulls will miss Johan Roets in a big way. Not only was his defensive kicking second to none, but also his positional play with his wings, Akona Ndungane and Bryan Habana, was perfected over three seasons. Zane Kirchner is a fantastic prospect, but it is his first season at this level. He certainly will learn by trial and error as much as he will from the two Springbok wings. The question is, will that cost the Bulls a game or two?

Same with the likes of Le Roux, Jannie du Plessis and Os du Randt at the Cheetahs. Props are vital at rucks and mauls where they act as pillars and cleaners. You have more than 150 Test caps and 500 provincial games between those guys. It will take years to replace that.

Similarly with the Lions, where the absence of Andre Pretorius and Jaque Fourie is already a huge setback. They will also miss the grunt provided by Geo and Jacques Cronje. And will someone like Earl Rose cope with the huge Samoans in 2008 after being demolished by them a year ago?

Scoring machines

In all, I see many tries in games where South African sides play. Unfortunately, the opposition will be the ones scoring the majority of those. They will find many holes in the inexperienced defence patterns at venues like Ellis Park, Bloemfontein and Cape Town.

Yes, our guys will score tries as well. JP Pietersen, Habana and Fourie will still be scoring machines, but the real test for them will be to outscore the other teams.

I understand the national coach is planning on watching as many Super 14 matches as he can. For his sake, I hope his predictions will come true. If not, the egg will be all over his face.

And that would be before he even started with his real job.

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    COMMENTS

    Daniel says: Peter...
    07/02/2008 10:14
    has had limited experience at Super 14 level, but has he at least been following the competition on TV? This is the beginning of the end for the Boks...what a clown!

    Hugo says: No
    07/02/2008 10:20
    JJ really no need to be so negative. SA is not the only country that lost players! Definitely not all doom and gloom, PDV might be a bit over optimistic but at least I would rather be associated with his views rather than yours.

    Stormer says: Blue Bull Boetie
    07/02/2008 10:22
    So in essence this article is about how all the franchises will fail except your beloved bulls. This article is almost as biased as one from Gary Bosshoff!!??

    earl says: Learning from others experiance
    07/02/2008 10:25
    De villiers should learn a valuable lesson from Jake. When you make a statement back it up with facts otherwise the media will harp on it forever and so will the fans, who by nature have long memories. If you look at the statement in context he was trying to talk up the SA based players against the 'exiles' . In truth last year was an unbelievable year because not only did the Bullls and Sharks play well but the other SA sides didn't cough up their home games so easily. This made it difficult for the NZ sides to have it all their own way and it showed in the end.

    Sharief Davids says: JJ : De Vilier's Prediction
    07/02/2008 10:25
    Hi JJ I know you trying to be a realist, but somewhere in the careers of all the great teams and or players they where all in the same boat, but they have to believe in themselves and know that we can even have an all SA final, thats not impossible (maybe in your mind), you where probably one of those people that doubted Jake and the teams ability as well, somewhere in there build up to winning the world cup. And I know its a huge task with all the players with super 14 experience not being there, But damn it we are the world champions and we must think this way and be a bit more arrogant, I think SA rugby needs that, just to get under the skin of our opponents, they must believe that its our cup and if they want it they have to play there "A" game "AAA" times better then we do, so if we dont start saying things like our coach says and believes .... We will always think like you do, that we cant do it ....Sad hey .....Shame on you. And I know you thinking I dont know all the facts, but I believed since the begging that Jake could do it, why not Peter. You guys where wrong with that, maybe, just maybe you wrong again.

    Ducman says: Campaign to oust Pieter
    07/02/2008 10:26
    JJ is clearly not happy with out man Pieter DV being the Springbok coach. Again it seems that there is more sinister motives behind JJ ramblings about Pieter. Shame on you JJ, do the honorable thing and resign. We need a rugby writer here that knows the game

    LM says: Agreed
    07/02/2008 10:31
    JJ, you are still a biased bull supporter, but on this I have to agree with you. Its scary that our new coach made these statements after seeing them train and play warm up matches, surely you cant conclude much from that, anyway what can we do.

    GBP says: ........
    07/02/2008 10:31
    Right on the money JJ. It saddens me that our new national coach makes these absurd predictions. On the other hand you have to give credit to the ultimate optimist! Looking forward to the super 14 though. Good luck to all the teams

    Jack says: DE VILLIERS A DISASTER
    07/02/2008 10:36
    I agree with most of what you said. But I think our real embarrassment will come with the national team. I was never a de Villiers fan and always thought him overrated. But I conceded that we should reserve judgment until after the tri-nations. However, watching him on Super Rugby the other night I was truly shocked. I find it absurd that he was chosen ahead of Meyer or Muir. We in SA are going to eat faeces this season.

    Dup says: Absurd
    07/02/2008 10:41
    I must agree that making the statement that 3 SA teams in the top 4 is an absolutely absurd notion, but JJ to condem the the new faces in SA rugby the likes of Kirchner before they take the field is a bit harsh..... If we had to rely on all they past talents we never would have won since 95'. Sure enough we need experience, as JW tought us last year. But I am willing to lose a few games new guys with the potential talent of guys like Habanna and fourie, Steyn e.c.t can come forth... Be positive, But I must agree, realistically speaking we are not going to see 3 SA teams in the top 4.

    Blackie Black says: Peter
    07/02/2008 10:46
    If the national coach think that 3 of our teams wil make the super14 semi-finals, It shows you what he really now's about rugby. We can kiss SA Rugby Goodbye, to put someone like peter in charge of the Springboks WHAT A JOKE

    konstabel says: we'll see...
    07/02/2008 10:51
    I'm saving this article as a bookmark, and if 2 or 3 South African teams end up in the semi's, I am going to make a big whoo-ha about it. I think it is about time our South African journalists should be held accountable for all the crap we are fed.

    Kolobe says: Time will tell
    07/02/2008 10:53
    All we can say to you Mr. JJ(Just Junk) Harmse is that time will tell

    george says: here we go again...
    07/02/2008 10:55
    "many holes...at venues like Ellis Park, Bloem and CT". i agree with you that it is highly unlikely that even two sides make the semi's, but take off your biased glasses for once JJ - the Bulls have suffered major player losses and I won't be surprised if there is a shift in SA rugby power post World Cup.

    Andries says: Sjoe bra!
    07/02/2008 10:58
    JJ, you paint a bleak picture. I see that you have not really cooled down since the ridiculous laws were passed. Tell the truth, me neither...

    RugbyStudent says: Negativity breeds negativity...
    07/02/2008 10:59
    Ok, JJ, what is the coach supposed to say? That not one team will reach the semi-final? What kind of moral boosting k@k is that? You are probably still bitter that Heyneke Meyer didn't get the job, now you are taking cheap shots at the current coach. Grow up, you ignorant fool!! You haven't said one positive thing. I am still getting over your "Johan Roets is in dieselfde klas as Chris Latham" story in the Rapport.

    DG says: Come on man, give the guy a break
    07/02/2008 11:01
    Dude, relax a bit, I think you are looking for toom much in that story, he was just speaking to the Stormers squad and thrying to motivate them. I believe the expierence of Anton Oliver, Carl Haymann and Chris Jack might also be missed for the NZ teams, or can they just adapt bettter than we can. PS: Have you seen De Wet Barry play in the English Premiership - I dont think he would make a club side here. Think before you write

    The Truth says: De Villiers may just be right...
    07/02/2008 11:17
    considering all the quality that NZ have lost,not to mention alll the earthquakes in Oz rugby at the moment.JJ,is there any truth to the rumour that you will be replacing "Sasol Steve" as the Bull's praise singer?

    Grotman says: Sky or train?
    07/02/2008 11:19
    Reading your article I couldn't help but agree on most points. I feel that the purpose that the statement of De Villiers could serve, is to make him look ignorant and cocky. As a coach you must try and stay out of the firing line (that comes naturally, later on in a season). I think for your own sake and that of your future players you must keep your thoughts to yourself. On the other hand I dont think things are as negative as what the article implies. We only have to look at the sharks last year, who started with a relatively inexperienced side and went on to be finalists. Sure John smith is gone, but would the impact be that severe? One must look at players such as AJ Venter who also possess the leadership skills, and who will also be available. Or with the Bulls, wikus van heerden, bakkies botha, fourie du preez. Even the Stormers got Burger and de villiers. And we are forgetting the new rules that will apply to this year's competition... I will be watching the first month with a lot of interest. Not all is good, but not all is bad...pretty much like every year

    cs says: super14
    07/02/2008 11:25
    And Bafana is going to win the WC!

    EVD says: JJ, be positive .....
    07/02/2008 11:27
    JJ, I just hope you are not the one with the egg over the face ..... believe in SA Super 14 Teams, no reason we cannot do well. And to be honest, I would like to see you find a whole in The Stormers Defence, go on, give it a try mate ........ Clearly you are a Bulls Supporter, the wheel will turn my friend, try and stop it if you can !!!

    Joe says: Ai Harmse
    07/02/2008 11:29
    I quote from the article that you are refering to JJ: "South Africa could have up to three teams in the semi-finals of the Super 14 rugby competition this year says Peter de Villiers, the new Springbok coach." I do not see any explicit prediction of having "at least" three teams in the semi finals. You do not always have to make your point by firstly disagreeing with someone JJ.

    orpa says: hmmm
    07/02/2008 11:34
    One good/successful rugby year for SA and certain people get arrogant. If we have a bad year in 2008, you will see us damning our team again.

    Athi says: Please...
    07/02/2008 11:35
    Iv never heard of anyone being crucified for merely making a prediction. I think it is clear that even if PDV wins the Tri Nations, it won't be enough for a lot of rugby supporters. You'll hear ppl saying it was luck, he inherited a winning team, etc. The ONLY way for PDV to get approval will be to go for an operation and make his skin pigmentation lighter....

    lifa says: pessimist
    07/02/2008 11:47
    who thought the bulls and the sharks would play super 14 finals together at the beginning of last season?

    bob says: PDV
    07/02/2008 12:03
    PDV you suck dude....Please play an all black team for us and you cronie administrators...then we can tell whats whats....all white

    William Appleby says: no JJ no
    07/02/2008 12:04
    JJ, your point regarding Super 14 experience is mute! Jake White had no Super 14 or Currie Cup experience and he was astute enough to weather all criticism levelled against him and win the World Cup. The CVs of Pieter and Jake are almost identical, so judge the coach by the scoreboard and nothing else!

    platkuif says: new coach
    07/02/2008 12:09
    De Villiers in not helping himself with comments like that...he deserves a 'clean slate' and a fair oppurtunity to proof himself,but at this stage it seems as if he has even less 'communication' and media skills as mr White...

    Barry the White says: I'd take Pieter's guess over yours any day
    07/02/2008 12:11
    Having heard the man speak, JJ, I'd take his optimistic prediction over your pessimistic attitude any day. You belong to that certain section who love to predict failure so that in the event that all goes wrong they can brag that they were right. Pieter De Villiers is an informed rugby man and possesses a unique insight into the game. The fact that he is a positive thinker only raises his standing in my opinion.

    The Truth says: You know what Athi...
    07/02/2008 12:20
    I'm a white boy and I tend to agree with you.Let's give the guy a break (and good on him for being positive).I saw him on Pasella last night and what a down to earth,intelligent chap (with a great collection rugby memoribilia to boot!).I doubt any coach si in the job to lose.Let's reserve judgement until after his first full year in charge (and what a tough year it is).

    Waleed says: Peter
    07/02/2008 12:21
    What do you have against Peter his got the credentials he has won a under 21 world cup just like JW before he became coach. Give the guy a chance and I would like to see you resign if Peter has a more 75% success rate after this year because that will be more than most coach's before him and is the same amount of bias sh@t you talk.

    Bogo says: Roets
    07/02/2008 12:24
    The fact that JJ Harmse rates Johan Roets as a fullback just indicates his lack of rugby knowledge! De Wet Barry missed at the Stormers? Please mate, have you seen him be the laughing stock of Quins and the Premier Rugby roadshow in the UK?

    Sam says: why JJ why?
    07/02/2008 12:34
    Had De Villiers predicted only one sa team to reach the semis, you would have said what kind of national coach shows no confidence in his own country's teams. Give the man a break JJ. Your negativity and critisism wont do you any good at all. Stop the critisism nonsence and support DV.

    CJD says: Wishful thinking
    07/02/2008 12:38
    No problem with the fact that the coach has no Super 14 experience, but if "at least 3"teams are in the semi's, then Elvis lives, Eskom will light us up again, Bafana will win the WC, the SARU President's Council will be replaced by people who know what they are talking about, the Arms Deal WILL be investigated and Louis Luyt becomes President of SA after buying a UFO from the Smurfs!

    Digga says: JJ get over yourself
    07/02/2008 12:42
    JJ, Heynecke is not the Springbok coach! Get over it! Goodness, by the way you carrying on, you'd swear the guy (PDV) committed a crime. It seems you have decided to make it a point to write vile about the new Bok coach at every turn you can. Genoeg met jou stront man!

    Lionel says: Wishful Thinking
    07/02/2008 12:43
    Pieter de Villiers has to be seen to be saying the right positive things as it goes with the job, eventhough it is pie in the sky. One must remember that the NZ teams never played their All Blacks for the first half of the Super 14 tournament last year. Does not mean because the Boks are the world champions that the Super 14 teams will fair just as well. My predication one team could make the semi's and my money is on the Sharks because of their better travel record and the All Blacks will win the Tri-Nations and the Boks will come down to earth with a bang with the wooden spoon.

    Media fan says: Blood, Sweat and lot's of tears
    07/02/2008 12:56
    When Peter was appointed, we knew that we are in for a bad patch in SA rugby.The administrators are fighting for leadership positions and with this goes a lot of back stabbing, lies and deceit.The players do not even support the new coach.Meyer was the best man for the job and he enjoyed the support of the media, the (entire) nation and the players.He is experienced,does not shoot from the hip and lets his results and actions speak rather than his words.He was not appointed and this will cost the national team and SA rugby dearly. We are at a time when springbok rugby could dominate the international arena, when national pride was at an all time high.Well, it's all over. JJ is a realist and is exposed to the media conferences and corridor talk and gossip.JJ,you say it as you hear and experience it.Let's hope that Peter appoints expert advisors that will feed him the truth.Things may change once Peter's receptions and interviews are over-expect blood, sweat and a lot of explaining...We need the media to ask the questions and to represent public opinion.Go JJ!!

    Deez says: Positive
    07/02/2008 13:22
    Ever heard the cricketers from OZ talk. They believe they can do anything, score 1000 for 4 in the 4th innings to win a test match - yes. They've lost Warnie, Langer, McGrath et al, but they still believe they can win, and they do win. Noone (except us) told them that they will start loosing after these greats retired. That's why they're so good - sure they have the systems in place to back them up. But our rugby structures are not all that rotten, are they. Like someone said here - "we're world champs, let's think like world champs". You achieve what you believe you can.

    Gavin says: New Bok Coach
    07/02/2008 13:34
    Sorry guys - But I have become a New Zealand supported - And I was a bok die hard! After the made De Villiers coach I looked at the situation and decided - They have taken everything away from the white man - Even rugby now. Jake White was in effect fired and replaced by this clown? Come on - How does on explain that to our grandchildren?

    IRA says: Shame poor PDV
    07/02/2008 13:34
    The man hasnt even started with his job and look how it's going! Shame on jou J.J!! I thought you would know better! We know the fact that a coloured man is coaching the Boks is eating you up inside but damn give the man a chance!!! And FYI if 3 side make it the Egg will be all over your face!!!!

    Gotlieb says: JJ Harmse
    07/02/2008 13:45
    Not only is De Villiers's prediction absurd, his selection as "coach" is absurd and the fact that he actually believes he is a "coach" of stature is absurd. Bye-bye Boks, bye-bye SA Rugby

    APD says: multi choice qeustions
    07/02/2008 13:51
    Multi Question Who or what will Pieter de Villiers blame for our loss against the all blacks? 1. not having enough time to plan because of his amount of pr work, talking and travelling between super 14 games, 2. because 5 months before our first test the assistant coaches and bok management were not contracted, 3. super 14 taking its toll on his first choice of players because his beloved Province made the semi finals.

    Gerhard says: rugby going the way of cricket (look was Arendse is doing) going the way of soccer
    07/02/2008 14:04
    Ok, to be fair SA has never been any good at football. We have been rated No1 in the World in Rugby and Cricket. I was prepared to give Div a chance but when he shoots his mouth off like a buffoon then why should I? He clearly has no brains and even fewer marbles.

    Berns says: Predictions never got anyone anywhere
    07/02/2008 14:17
    PDV is an idiot. Did he EVER watch S14 over the last decade? We all know how difficult it is for ANY SA team to get into the semis because the travel arrangements always goes against SA teams. For all the dumb twits on this page that call JJ biased, you are just showing how jealous you are that the Bulls were the first SA team to win the S14. And we all know jealousy makes you nasty! Rather watch the soccer you fools and leave the Bulls to win the S14 again.

    Ernest says: Dont forget
    07/02/2008 14:46
    What u all are forgetting is the fact that we always believed that we could never win the s14 and our new coach understands we now have the belief and can nolonger use the travelling as an excuse.

    Gary says: C'MON JJ !!
    07/02/2008 14:58
    What makes you think '40 new faces' in NZ sides will be a threat, but not in the RSA sides ? Do you have an inferiority complex ? Thanx, but you can keep it all to yourself, mate.

    David says: PDV vs JW
    07/02/2008 15:04
    Guys. the CVs of the two are no the same. JW was part of the Bok team as the tecnical analyst during the boks record 17 match winning streak. What has PDV done except coach the juniors - who should win the world cup year on year anyway just because of SAs junior rugby depth compared to the other nations. Dont get me wron i support PDV but the CVs are not quiet the same.

    Gary says: PESSIMISTS? RACISTS? OR JUST IGNORANT?
    07/02/2008 15:09
    Guys, if everything's doom & gloom, you may go - we won't miss you ! If you don't know PDV, or didn't take the time to look at his achievements - don't comment! [empty cans make the most noise]. His achievemnts are much more illustrious than Heyneke Meyer's [who only coached S14].PDV won the Nations Cup last year. He has a good social programme in place. That's the non-rugby reason, not skin colour.

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