News24

ASA bans church's healing claims

2011-02-03 22:28

Cape Town - The Advertising Standards Authority has banned the Christ Embassy Church from airing its claims of faith healing, following a complaint from the Treatment Action Campaign (TAC).

However, the church says it intends to appeal.

The ruling, released on Wednesday, came after the ASA rejected an initial complaint in June last year.

TAC spokesperson Nathan Geffen said on Thursday that the claims were aired during the church's regular early morning slot on e.tv on Sundays.

He said the church claimed to use faith healing to treat several diseases, including heart disease, and had run adverts on its website claiming to treat Aids.

"Quackery of this nature is not merely misleading. It is life-destroying," he said.

He said TAC knew of a woman infected with extreme drug resistant TB who stopped taking her medication because she believed the church had cured her, and died, after infecting her own children with the disease.

Financial motive

Geffen also criticised e.tv for continuing to run Christ Embassy programming even after it was alerted to TAC's concerns.

"During the ASA proceedings, the extent of the financial motive involved in running Christ Embassy's ads became abundantly clear: a broadcast agreement between Christ Embassy and e.tv shows that Christ Embassy paid R2.6m excluding VAT to run 52 24-minute episodes," he said.

In its ruling, the ASA's advertising standards committee said the particular Sunday morning programmes that TAC complained of, in which a woman was allegedly healed of rheumatic heart disease, clearly constituted an advertisement for services.

The probable impact of the material on those likely to see it was that Christ Embassy possessed, or had the power to transfer, God's healing powers to the ill and diseased.

"Common sense tells us not to allow false hope to grip vulnerable and sick people," the committee said.

"The ASA will be failing in its duty if it allows miracle cure [a phenomenon that is known to occur in very few instances] to be touted as an everyday cure that is available at Christ Embassy."

An attorney acting for the church, Sean Sim, told Sapa the church would definitely appeal the ruling. It had 20 days to do so, he said.

The church was not going to make an apology for or backtrack on the belief in faith healing.

"It is one of the fundamental tenets of Christianity," he said.

Comments
  • Moringa - 2011-02-03 23:14

    But Advertising Standards Authority wont stop the power and balance band adds ... no they are left to thief as much as they can . Figures just another government controlled organisation

      JohnnyWotten - 2011-02-04 08:31

      Moringa, the ASA has made a ruling against Power Balance. They can still advertise but have had to change their ruling to "It may…" or "People say they have experienced…" instead of "It does…". If you see any ads or packaging where PB claims to work then report it to the ASA. The ASA does not proactively stop ads, they have to wait for complaints.

  • Waine Jonathan - 2011-02-03 23:50

    Good, these Charismatic and other churches who make claims that they cannot support with evidence must be corrected. These Churches make big money from the gullible,the desperate and the ignorant who they attract to pay tithes with these false claims. What about prophecy that does not come true? Like Benny Hinn saying that Jesus would appear on stage when he went to India several years ago, which did not happen! that to must be paid for or corrected somehow.

      Neso - 2011-02-04 06:51

      Quite right Waine. Faith healing(sic!) is nothing but a dirty money-making scam.

      BLACKsoWHAT! - 2011-02-04 08:22

      Baby Jake sat in the VIP section of Ray Mccauley's Rhema Church paid thithe and tax and sh1t to the church, but when he didn't have a pot to piss in (broke & ill), a football boss Irvin Khoza was the one to bail him out, could have put that money in a money market account and prayed in his bedroom.

  • pirate.1970 - 2011-02-04 00:34

    Well said, Moringa. Double standards. Problem is, I don't understand the reasons for judgment. Are they aimed at the issue of healing, at people being the extended hands of God, or purely because they occupy the space every week for the period stipulated by Geffen? What is Mr Geffen's religious affiliation, if any? This is more an attack on Christianity itself than the so-called ad. The phrasing of the reasons show a lack of understanding how God operates. Waine, have peace, my brother. Paul states very clearly that the intent of the person spreading the gospel is not for us to judge as he will answer to God for that. We need to observe whether the gospel is spread true to the Word of God. Lastly, it should not be for ASA to decide, but for Christians to discern between what is in the Light and from the Light and what not. The woman Mr Geffen refers to decided to stop using her treatment. Did she even attended for a screen before seizing the use of her med's? I cannot judge her faith, nor any other person appearing on the program. I cannot judge those bringing the message as it would imply that I question the presence of God; or that I question His power through His servants (used with circumspect). We have to be vigilant, but be very aware of the attempts to destroy the church of Christ. This is being done under the guise of human rights and false pretenses. We have to pray over this issue and church. Let God's will be done. Shalom.

      Worldwise - 2011-02-04 02:28

      The false promises of healing are from the church. Until there is peer reviewed double blind testing with repeatable results, as demanded in all medicine and science, the church should not stick to its claims. No matter how much you believe that faith healing works, there is no proof and it remains just that; - faith. The ASA has the duty to protect the public against non proven claims. This should have applied to the powerbalance bracelet as well. Mr Geffens' religious affiliation is not at question here. Rather the claim by a church of its capacity to practice superstitious medicine is. Don't you need a licence to practice medicine? What makes a church so special? Your claim to know how God operates is also arrogant and false. There is no magic man in the sky who knows all you do and say. In medicine this is known as paranoia. This God supposedly has preordained your life but might find it necessary to kill you because he loves you. Insane! Religion is for people that still have not outgrown their imaginary friends.

      richietarr - 2011-02-04 07:16

      @Pirate.1970: You just got schooled! There is a proven link between their advert and a woman not only dying but infecting her own children because of the false claims by this organisation. Hence they need to be shut down. Care to argue: please provide some fact based evidence (and not a quotation from the bible) of faith based healing of a non-psychological, medical disorder / disease (ie: paralysis, cancer etc.). I have no problem with the principles and beliefs of Christians or other religions but the fallacy of curing medical miracles through faith needs to be debunked as it causes more harm than good and in this case potentially multiple deaths (mother infected children and who knows who they will come into contact with).

      pirate.1970 - 2011-02-04 07:58

      @Worldwise; Rob; richietarr: I am not in favor of any advertising in this regard. My contention is that the body/church of Christ should be walking under the will of God. W/out true faith there will be NO healing. If you do not believe in God and Christ then you will be negatively inclined towards anything mentioned about it, and that I can understand. My prayer would be that God in His splendour will lead you to the Light through the Holy Spirit. I have my own testimony wrt healing in my own life; I have experienced answers to prayers that cannot be attributed to "luck" or "fortune". There were times that I didn't understand the hardship I had to endure. Thank God that He was busy preparing the road to a resolve beyond what my family or I could have anticipated. No, I am not talking about money and material benefit...in that regard I have enough (my daily bread) and am blessed in that regard. The Bible is the one book in the world that can be verified historically and has been. I don't have the space to deal with all of that now. Mr Geffen's religion and his motives are questionable. To the church the important thing is to stay true to the Scripture. I am not in favor of flamboyant and so-called wealth teachings. Blessings do not of necessity imply money and material things. I am willing to be schooled in God's will and instructions, but sorry to say, I have not been schooled through your comments. Being Worldwise is not my goal.

      pirate.1970 - 2011-02-04 08:24

      @Worldwise: please show to me where I claimed to know how God operates. If I would have, it is no secret. To me as a bliever "It is no secret what God can do...". Maybe you will remember that from somewhere in your life. The Bible is not a book of secrets. @ Worldwise; Rob; richietarr: Please remember that there are false prophets and frightening human doctrines. These are not in line with the Word or Will of God. If you allow yourself to have a relationship with God, accept Christ as Saviour, I promise you that the more you learn the better you will know God. You will experience the peace that surpasses all human understanding. There are countless people who have suffered from heart disease, cancer and other illnesses from which they were healed. If you do not want to believe their testimonies, I cannot force you to, and I don't want to either. If I told you how my dad operates, would it make me arrogant and false? If I know God and understand His Word, accepts His love for me and stand in a Father/Child relationship to Him, how can I be arrogant and false if I am speaking of how He works? The world wants to fit God into a worldly box but cannot do so. We cannot measure God by worldly standards. The church is not practicing medicine! It is God's extended hands to reach out to souls and, yes, through fervent prayer and faith the body may be healed. God does not kill! Over centuries we took decisions, lived the way we wanted to. The world puts God to blame. Arrogance xtreme.

      pirate.1970 - 2011-02-04 08:41

      @ Worldwise and richietarr: plz read the comment of casper.coetzee down below. It's worth the read. Then also read what Singo says, as well as Maxine. Then also read Rob's comment to gb2161. Plz take this to heart. Keep in mind what Christ said to Thomas at His second appearance to His disciples...

      Worldwise - 2011-02-04 09:17

      @Pirate.1970. The statement from your original posting; - Quote: "The phrasing of the reasons show a lack of understanding how God operates." Unquote. You mean to tell me you wrote this without knowing how God operates? This statement tells me you know exactly how God operates. How Thomas supposedly interpreted Jesus' words is open to conjecture as the book of Thomas was left out of the bible by the Roman Catholic Church due to it not fitting their version of Christianity. So there are secrets pertaining to the bible. Ask the Vatican to open their secret archives and read the unsanitised version of your bronze age users manual. For a good insight into how contradictory and absurd your bible actually is, go to http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

      pirate.1970 - 2011-02-04 16:52

      @ Worldwise: You are so worldwise that you believe you know it all! Pity you haven't made time to understand the grace and love of God; that you and I have a choice. I seemingly have to repeat myself as you did not follow. Plz man, use your mentality properly. I believe in the Word of God; I have reason to; I do not have to explain myself in doing so; it is a choice, and may God have mercy on those who reject His Son and the price paid for our salvation. This is written in the Bible, and the history written by non-believers, even Roman writers, confirm the truth written in the Word. People who do not believe will pay the price. Not what I say... Do you believe that if I have a relationship with God, that if I read the Bible and other literature, that I will not know the simple truth of God's ways? I was not suggesting to know more than what is contained within the Word and through personal experience and the testimonies of different and diverse people. I am not referring to the Book of Thomas...merely to what Thomas said when he was not present when Jesus stood in the presence of the disciples; and then what Jesus said to Thomas at the second appearance, and Thomas' experience. Know what, do yourself a favor, buy the book written by Isak Burger - two books now combined into one - "The First 5 Minutes After Your Death;The Last 5 Minutes Before Your Death". Plz do that. If not, your choice. Watch or read "Faith Like Potatoes", if not, your choice. May the Spirit convince you.

  • gb2161 - 2011-02-04 04:19

    "Quackery of this nature is not merely misleading. It is life-destroying," he said. But that statement applies to all religions who make ridiculous supernatural claims without evidence. The ASA should ban all religious advertising as all claims they make are quackery and BS.

      graham.christensen1 - 2011-02-04 07:31

      Correct. But slight difference is that some claims are harmless (Power Balance or Jesus will be your friend) whereas these ads claim to actually heal. That's what makes them unacceptable.

      Picasso - 2011-02-04 07:38

      Especially these ads by Shangomas in the papers.

      BLACKsoWHAT! - 2011-02-04 08:26

      @ Picasso Its Sangoma.

      Wonderboy - 2011-02-04 09:55

      In that case they should ban all adverts.

  • Karoobloed - 2011-02-04 04:21

    I am a Christian who is personally offended and put off by the mania, hysteria, fraud and exploitation going on in many of the more charismatic churches. What on earth has happened to the sacred and holy roots of religion, where a deeper understanding of the truth and the approach to God is achieved in quiet and peaceful contemplation?

      gb2161 - 2011-02-04 04:27

      Christianity is the belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie that is his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all humanity because a rib-woman was convinced to eat from a magical tree by an infinitely sadistic being disguised as a talking snake with legs. Sorry, it is also a fraud.

      Ysterman - 2011-02-04 06:56

      @gb2161 wow, dude or maybe dud is more appropriate, you really have no idea of Christianity, but I think that you are an athiest or non-Christian who is trying to flout your own beliefs. We have faith to believe in our way of life and it makes us better people when we follow Christ selflessly, does this make us frauds?

      jesewashere - 2011-02-04 07:37

      It's Christians like you that stop me from giving up on the faith entirely. That is what religion is.

      Lanfear - 2011-02-04 09:55

      @ gb2161 - lol, well said! @ Ysterman - no, people who believe are gullible, not frauds. The whole concept of religion itself is what is the biggest fraud ever. After all, there's lots of money and power to be had in the god racket! All the fraud, explotation and hysteria proves the non-believers' point in the first place. And please people, can't we keep religion OFF the damn tv! Very annoying.

      Wonderboy - 2011-02-04 09:58

      @gb2161 I am not even going to answer you.

      Lanfear - 2011-02-04 10:08

      @ Wonderboy - but you just DID answer gb2161! ROFL!

      Ysterman - 2011-02-04 10:15

      @jesewashere & Lanfear, I rest my case....

      Worldwise - 2011-02-04 10:33

      @Ysterman. What case? You don't have one. Since when does your faith make you better people? Better than who? Religion is the biggest fraud ever. Would you buy an insurance policy that has never been proven to pay out and only requires you to believe the salesman? FRAUD.

      Wonderboy - 2011-02-04 11:23

      @ lanfer If that is an answer you can read between the lines.

      gb2161 - 2011-02-04 11:46

      @Ysterman Many, many atheists had Xinanity nonsnese forced down their throats as children. I happen to be one. I may also point out that research confirms that ex-xian atheists know more about the buybull than xians. We read it all, not just the nice bits that you ignore. Read it some time. If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity. Deuteronomy 25:11-12 HaHa!!!!

      k53 - 2011-02-04 14:55

      Im a born again Christian and have been struggling to find a good Charismatic church in my neighbourhood. Among the churches I have tried, is Christ Embassy. What I find difficult to understand about that church is how every 'blessing' or 'breakthough' will only come if you give everything to the Church...my blessings come from Christ Himself and doesn't ask a dime for coz He paid the ultimate price. Christians need to wake up and stop being used by greedy false prophets!

      Zion - 2011-02-04 18:27

      When I read all this religious crap than I am satisfied to be what I am: an atheist man. I have witnessed dozens of these bogus curing sessions and the floor was covered with bodies in convulsions. It is so pathetic in most cases, that most intelligent persons would see it as bulldust. As long as the money comes rolling in all is happy while the pastor intones "God wants money not small change, that is for parking meters. God is not a parking meter. Brazil: A man hobbles up for healing, he receives it and returns to his seat walking normally. End of service he waits in his seat and an official of the church approaches him and hands over money. Church empty, man takes up his crutches and hobbles out. The church officials apparently forgot to switch off the cameras. The incident was replayed some years ago on SABC. TV. I have never seen a single case of successful healing yet. Next Sunday the same old mob is back with their money and aches. Religion is a sick doctrine.

  • Baxter - 2011-02-04 06:35

    Jesus did not advertise about His healing powers but people spread the word after seeing the truth. Let people speak if it is true. Truth needs no advertising

      Mnumzane - 2011-02-04 07:12

      Thanx Baxter, I always tell people that. I hope those with eyes will read your comment

  • blaisin - 2011-02-04 06:44

    Thank "Christ Embassy" I don't watch TV....lol

  • hanekoms - 2011-02-04 06:51

    Just a thought - Modern science/technology cannot heal all diseases etc. That is why people will seek a Higher Hand for healing.

      Amun Ra - 2011-02-04 11:12

      If you are nice I will let you humans bow to ME

  • Rob - 2011-02-04 07:09

    @gb2161 One minute after you are dead you will know HIM, but too late!

      kingoftomorr - 2011-02-04 08:18

      Good thing i believe a piccko, the mud god, he offers one pig and all the coco-nuts you can carry.

      JCK - 2011-02-04 09:01

      Rob, which one? Mankind has created some 2500 gods. Which one? Big will your surprize one day to find out you backed the wrong God. Zeus or Thor might $#@^&% you with their hammer because you followed the "false christian religion" And then these is the holy Tooth fairy to consider as well...

      Worldwise - 2011-02-04 09:42

      @Rob. You better be sure you back the right one as there are now over 5000 named gods with Jehovah/Yahweh/Yhwh and Jesus being just two of them. God did not create man, man created God and there are over 5000 gods hanging around competing for for your attention. They all claim to be supernatural. The Christian one is interesting as He claims to be all powerful, yet He cannot control a wayward angel that He created in the first place. He also leaves the responsibility for rejecting the advances of this wayward angel to His creations that he loves. He has absolved his responsibility to protect them from the wayward angel, that is their responsibility. If His creations don't reject the uncontrollable wayward angel they will suffer forever burning in fire because He loves them. Good grief, a kid with parents like this God would be removed by the welfare services to a place of safety. What a sadistic wierdo.

      Lanfear - 2011-02-04 09:58

      Hey JCK! Don't forget the Flying Spaghetti Monster! God of gods and ruler of the universe! lol @ Worldwise - couldn't have said it better, nicely done.

      Amun Ra - 2011-02-04 11:14

      If you are nice I will let you humans bow to Me

      Snowli - 2011-02-04 11:50

      Rob, you are a total crackpot - an adult believing in witchcraft and fairy tales!? If you lot are so keen on going to jesus why don't you all speed things up a bit and leave the rest of us in peace?

      NodrogBob - 2011-02-04 11:54

      Hey Rob don't mind all these athiests or unbelievers. They have a special holiday, April Fools Day, because in Psa 14:1 it says "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." The 2500 to 5000 gods that they are talking about are the one's there father the devil has confused them with. As you said in a minute they will know who God is, but it will be too late!!

      gb2161 - 2011-02-04 12:19

      Dear God, There's a guy out there who thinks you exist. Not only that but he thinks he's really super special to you and you're out there in the universe concerned about the tough moments he cannot control or fix. God, he's down here on planet earth really depending on you as an imaginary friend who'll listen to his emotional outbursts during these moments when he is all alone needing someone to hug and comfort him.

      NodrogBob - 2011-02-04 13:12

      Reply to gb2161 At least he has someone to call on! Who will you have when the demons come and shred your soul?

      Felix - 2011-02-04 14:01

      @NodrogBob, you are already shredding my soul. Zealot, I hope you run through a field of spidermines!

  • Nosipho - 2011-02-04 07:22

    Is it okay for us to watch sex;alcohol and gun blazing but not okay to give people hope and moral values

      navarac - 2011-02-04 08:03

      You did not complete your comment with a full stop. May I complete it for you? ... and OK to make fraudulent and unsubstantiated claims with thinly veiled financial implications; ie. bums on seats.

      kingoftomorr - 2011-02-04 08:19

      Whos morals and whos values? not mine buddy

      Worldwise - 2011-02-04 10:43

      What hope? They're sick and dying. So you think its OK to give someone false hope? Whose morals? So according to you, anyone that is not a Xtian has no morals? So an atheist with morals is a better person as he/she has managed to conduct him/herself without needing an ancient book that Xtians need to be moral?

  • feppie - 2011-02-04 07:29

    SHAME ON YOU E.TV!! E.tv is quick to draw attention to corruption and sleaze and we love them for that! So why, Debra Patta, did we need a court decision to stop you guys from supporting sleaze like past. Chris Oyakhilome??

  • Singo - 2011-02-04 07:36

    there is nothing wrong drinking medications from hospitals and receiving prayers at the same time.the woman who died should have visited hospital for checkup even though she thought she was healed.it is sad that people are using the name of Christ for their own gain.who is healing who in this process?Christ Embassy or the preacher there?

  • johnnydee - 2011-02-04 07:40

    I am a Christian, but I just cannot believe how gullible people are.The Christ Embassy Church is obviously more of a profit driven organization feeding on the hopelesness and desperation of people, than a church. I just hope that this ruling won't be the precursor to the eventual banning of ALL christian programmes. South Africa needs God!

      emmanuel chima - 2011-02-04 09:42

      Mr Christian have you ever been present when the Christ Embassy church counts the profits they make for you to say they are a profit driven org. If you are a christian who are you to judge??? Are we not saving the same GOD

      gb2161 - 2011-02-04 12:21

      "I am a Christian, but I just cannot believe how gullible people are." BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Look in a mirror some time.

      nola.richveldman - 2012-03-14 08:35

      @gb2161 EXCELLENT point made!

  • VidoPro - 2011-02-04 07:46

    Where is the evidence? That would entail having a medical practitioner certify the illness before the healing and certify that the healing had in fact taken place. This would include extensive testing to certify that the healing has occurred. While I don't deny that God does perform miracles in today's society, many people posing as God's messengers have led others astray with promises of health, wealth and untold riches. You can tell them from a mile away - their most famous opening line is if you sow a seed to their ministry (ie. give them your money) that God will do whatever they want for them. Then when that prayer is not answered, their excuse is that your faith is not strong enough, however you are poorer and left devastated for the experience - both in having your faith wrecked and your bank account raided. You can find these so called pastors and church leaders living the high life, living in big houses, owning expensive aircraft and motor vehicles - all bought off the backs of those who feel that they have nowhere else to go. It is people in these positions who give Christianity a bad name, who make God to be a liar and cause others to find reason to ridicule those who have trusted in Jesus Christ.

  • VidoPro - 2011-02-04 07:49

    Where is the evidence? That would entail having a medical practitioner certify the illness before the healing and certify that the healing had in fact taken place. This would include extensive testing to certify that the healing has occurred. While I don't deny that God does perform miracles in today's society, many people posing as God's messengers have led others astray with promises of health, wealth and untold riches. You can tell them from a mile away - their most famous opening line is if you sow a seed to their ministry (ie. give them your money) that God will do whatever they want for them. Then when that prayer is not answered, their excuse is that your faith is not strong enough, however you are poorer and left devastated for the experience - both in having your faith wrecked and your bank account raided. You can find these so called pastors and church leaders living the high life, living in big houses, owning expensive aircraft and motor vehicles - all bought off the backs of those who feel that they have nowhere else to go. It is people in these positions who give Christianity a bad name, who make God to be a liar and cause others to find reason to ridicule those who have trusted in Jesus Christ.

  • VidoPro - 2011-02-04 07:54

    Where is the evidence? That would entail having a medical practitioner certify the illness before the healing and certify that the healing had in fact taken place. This would include extensive testing to certify that the healing has occurred. While I don't deny that God does perform miracles in today's society, many people posing as God's messengers have led others astray with promises of health, wealth and untold riches. You can tell them from a mile away - their most famous opening line is if you sow a seed to their ministry (ie. give them your money) that God will do whatever they want for them. Then when that prayer is not answered, their excuse is that your faith is not strong enough, however you are poorer and left devastated for the experience - both in having your faith wrecked and your bank account raided. You can find these so called pastors and church leaders living the high life, living in big houses, owning expensive aircraft and motor vehicles - all bought off the backs of those who feel that they have nowhere else to go. It is people in these positions who give Christianity a bad name, who make God to be a liar and cause others to find reason to ridicule those who have trusted in Jesus Christ.

      casper.coetzee - 2011-02-04 08:21

      VidoPro, I do have proof - My daughter was deaf the first four years of hear life, and today still (That is, five years later) she still hears. Tested by the doctors, and unexplainable by medicine. If someone that attended a meeting like that, decides to lie about his or her healing, and then testfies that they are healed without actually being healed, who is to blame? The minister, or the person claiming it? They advertise wht people testify. If those people testify untruthfully, it is on their own heads - Yes, Christ Embassy should try to ensure that these claims are true before publishing them. Anyone choosing not to believe, can do so, but remeber my friend, when you stand in front of the judgement seat, YOU HAD A CHANCE! God doesn't send people to hell, you choose to go - You choose - Your choice

      JCK - 2011-02-04 09:13

      Jasper, it is a delusion www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI Anycase, glad your daughter is better

  • NodrogBob - 2011-02-04 08:13

    It is not necessary for God to use advertising to heal people. God has healed people over the centuries without it. The fact is though that God does heal and I can testify to that. God heals those that believe His Word in faith. Many people don't understand faith and how to apply it, that faith is an active word. The key is still and always will be that it is in Jesus Name that the sick are healed! I can't answer for other people and their experiences, but I can say that I have had healing on numerous occasions.

  • Simon - 2011-02-04 08:13

    False prophets FALSE PROPHETS!!!!!! Misleading JAH PEOPLE

      Wena! - 2011-02-04 12:08

      The problem is not faith, it is religion

  • thabiso.marumo - 2011-02-04 08:19

    If Christ Embassy had the power to heal the sick, then why don't they just walk into a Hospital and heal everyone.

      emmanuel chima - 2011-02-04 09:43

      We do but we don't have to announce it everytime we heal people. If you want healing i can come heal you becoz i have the power to do so!

      Amun Ra - 2011-02-04 11:34

      Because it is cash before Christ pay now heal later. This cash for Christ industry is really booming, any good entrepreneur can see the opportunities to rid these gullible souls of there spare. change

  • Limpopoist - 2011-02-04 08:21

    "If I had seen miracles from these ministry], I would have been happy to trumpet it...but in retrospect, I think they do more damage to Christianity than the most committed atheist" :The director of :A Question of Miracles, Antony Thomas,of HBO TV network

  • emmanuel chima - 2011-02-04 08:28

    I am a christian and I am very proud of it becoz i know who i am. Salvation is personal, no one was ever forced to believe in God and no one was forced to have faith. If you do not know how to get healed by faith then shut up becoz you certainly do not know what u r talking about. Christ was persecuted in His days so why should the Christian body of today not be persecuted? Who r u to judge and say this is fake, fraud e.t.c. Let them stop the adverts, shut down the churches if they like but that will not stop the Word of God from spreading. Do they actually realize when they do these they are even publicising the church more for free, I am not moved I kknew it was bound to happen they are anti Christ fools behind it who are willing to spend millions to subotage the Christian community, they can try but it is all in vain, Jesus is ALIVE and HE LIVES..........

      evans.sekhota - 2011-02-04 08:53

      @ Emmanuel, That's true they are Anti-Chris Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him.14 But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you,15 and you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses.

      k53 - 2011-02-04 15:06

      Christ heals, but He doesn't ask a dime from any1 to do so! why is it that Christ Embassy does? why do you think the pastors drive nice cars. They are misleading poor people who are desperate...we, as Christians, need to preach to seek His Kingdom first so we can receive our blessings, then we won't be fooled by false prophets that use churches as get-rich-schemes!

      k53 - 2011-02-04 15:08

      don't get me wrong...Christ heals and I have seen and experienced His mighty hand 4 FREE!

  • TheFigTree - 2011-02-04 08:38

    This just always rings so true with everything going about. This thread being no different......... For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My names sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. The many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold! But he who endures to the end will be saved!!

      Worldwise - 2011-02-04 10:00

      Why do we need to go through all this crap when your God is so powerful and can put a stop to all of it right now and we can live happily ever after? Some questions about your Gods ability to control evil: Is God willing but not able to control evil? - Then He is not omnipotent. Is God able but not willing to control evil? - Then He is malfeasant. Is God willing and able to control evil? - Then why does evil exist? Is God neither willing nor able to control evil? - Then He is not God. I rest my case.

  • NodrogBob - 2011-02-04 08:44

    Just a correction to what I said earlier that God does not need advertising, but in fact when I think of it a bit more, God has used advertising from the earliest Bible times through word of mouth. Check out the Bible for yourself, IF YOU HAVE THE TIME!

  • JB - 2011-02-04 08:45

    Why does everyone get their knickers in a knot. If a bunch of happy clappers want to believe they will get healed by a church, and more than that, are willing to pay for it, then let them. Natural selection at work. You cannot let them bang the drum about the powers of god and jesus and then not let them actually put their lives on the line for it - the 2 go hand in hand. Seriously... Let the masses sing, pray and wave their hands in the air; but also let their stupidity have consequences.

  • Felix - 2011-02-04 08:45

    I know another show that is fooling the people for its own benefit, and has been for 17 yrs now. Get them ASA! Religion = best pyramid scheme EVA. If people are going to believe stupid things (no matter how desperate they are) then let them. We need better education JZ.

  • Royalty - 2011-02-04 08:51

    I feel sorry for the people that deny the healing power of Christ. I'm a white South African and both me and my 2 year old son received healing when we were prayed for. No one ask me to pay anything. Pastor Chris from Christ Embassy, like any Christian should do according to the Word of God, is a man that is moved by compassion for the sick and the poor and uses the gift that God has given him to pray for people to be healed. I will continue to encourage people to go to Christ Embassy's healing school and no ASA will stop me from telling the world and especially people from this country that Jesus can heal them of HIV Aids, Cancer, TB or any other sickness and disease in the Name of Jesus. The only difference between me and ASA is that we believe in healing and therefore we've received our healing.

  • Phlegm - 2011-02-04 08:52

    Sadly this is just another case of a bunch of crooks using peoples fear of god to extort money from them, but then again the church has been doing this for century's!

      emmanuel chima - 2011-02-04 09:01

      I have been a Christian for many years and i have never heard any Pastor demand people to give their tither or offering, you give at your own free will so stop preading lies and a get a life

      Phlegm - 2011-02-04 09:50

      Mmmmm, "free will", lets look at the Vatican for an example, estimated 15 Billion US$ of accrued "free will"!

      Worldwise - 2011-02-04 10:11

      @Emmanual china. Try Rhema and tell me money isn't the object. The churches extort money using guilt and fear of the supernatural. They have the perfect product to sell though, an insurance policy that is never seen to pay out and only requires you to believe the salesman that the product will work. No proof. Would you invest your money in an insurance policy like this? And their profits are tax free too.

  • Vitsha - 2011-02-04 09:00

    If you do not understand a phenomenon, keep your mouth shut. That is an attrobute of an educated person. The problem is you all have access to these services and you think you know everything about everything. If you are educated about a subject, seek educated whether you are black or white.

      Worldwise - 2011-02-04 10:24

      Since when has faith healing been a phenomenon? Educated people use peer reviewed double blind tests (Look it up) with controls to to provide evidence of medical healing. Faith healing has never stood up to these tests. Now what was that about being educated again?

      Poaul Zwarts - 2011-02-04 11:52

      1)Attribute with an "i" 2)Your last sentence makes no sense! Well, for that matter, your whole post doesn't make sense. As soon as this phenomenon is proven to actually exist, it can be called a phenomenon. Me not knowing anything about the tooth-fairy doesn't change my opinion that the tooth-fairy is make-believe...

  • evans.sekhota - 2011-02-04 09:06

    Revelation 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

      Worldwise - 2011-02-04 10:19

      Hey Evans, if God knows the Devil is deceiving the people and has been doing so for centuries, why hasn't He done something about it yet? Good grief man, this all powerful guy can put a stop to this crap right now! Why does this all powerful God have such a hard time controlling his own creation? Your Facebook wall shows that you only have one topic as well; - religion. Try freeing your mind.

      NodrogBob - 2011-02-04 10:48

      Actually my comment is to Worldwise's comment to you. Because God has given man a will of his own, which believe me by the evidence of the world today and all the things happening in the world tell me He is close to judging this world which He will do in His good time!

  • JCK - 2011-02-04 09:07

    Faith healing and the power of prair is an extremely succesful delusion over the ages... whywontgodhealamputees.com/video8.htm www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI

  • Alfred - 2011-02-04 09:44

    Boycott ETV. Those greedy pigs have no integrity and will do anything for money even allowing lying, cheating, snakeoil scamartists to advertise on their channel. They have blood on their hands.

  • Claus Rabe - 2011-02-04 10:22

    I have no problem with Christians believing in whatever it is that give their lives meaning, but it is immoral to exploit the poor, the uneducated and the desperate for profit. Even according to Christian ethics. These sociopathic charlatans invariably turn out to be frauds, kiddy fiddlers or methadone addicts.

  • Daddy-Cool - 2011-02-04 10:33

    his is one of the scams of our lifetime and should be banned at all times. I wonder what e-TV is ganning from airing this hogwash. I say big-up to the TAC for tackling this Nigerian church scammers. Daddy-Cool

      Alfred - 2011-02-04 11:35

      money of course.

  • SAFFA-CAT - 2011-02-04 10:33

    At last....I have been against this blatant deception for years. It is a criminal offence end of.

  • SAFFA-CAT - 2011-02-04 10:33

    At last....I have been against this blatant deception for years. It is a criminal offence end of.

  • Mike - 2011-02-04 10:39

    "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion." L. Ron Hubbard

  • princess.arlene - 2011-02-04 10:50

    I was healed and I'm not a Christian.

      Alfred - 2011-02-04 14:12

      Do you mean you were healed of christianity? So you are no longer a christian? If so, congratulations. Religion is like a virus infecting the brain leading to a loss of intelligence.

  • katman - 2011-02-04 10:53

    Forget pulling the ads/tv content. If there was any sanity and justice they'd sue the church for all the lives and income lost by people who fell for these misleading claims, and shut the whole business down. This is what would happen to a "hospital" who, for example, claims to cure people by drinking Oros, chanting nursery rhymes and performing mass hand stands. They'd be gone, and probably with a criminal record. Expose the lie. This emperor is as naked as the day it was born.

  • msngwenya2 - 2011-02-04 11:14

    PASTOR CHRIS AGAIN

  • The_Truth - 2011-02-04 11:57

    They will succeed here with their false claims, because people are so "doff" they will believe this shit, and if you do, tough luck, you deserve to be conned

  • gb2161 - 2011-02-04 12:24

    Oh! No! The Xians are selectively quoting scripture. "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Deut. 22:28-29 Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. - Numbers 31:17,18 They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16 If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB) "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

  • rogerwilco1 - 2011-02-04 13:14

    Churches should be prosecuted like organised crime, failing that taxed like every other profitable company. They spread fear and then get people to pay in the hope they'll be ok. That's a protection racket. No different to the Mafia. Shut them down, or tax them.

      NodrogBob - 2011-02-04 13:54

      Now that you made that comment, perhaps the tax man will give you a double wammy to pay to the tax man, for making such a disgusting statement like that!

      rogerwilco1 - 2011-02-04 14:10

      @NodrogBob "You're going to die and burn in hell for ever - support our organisation and pay us/buy our merchandise and all will be just perfect" Versus "Your shop windows are going to break and your customers will go away - support our organisation and pay us and all will be just perfect" Same argument to. Arguably the crime bosses don't have a nice range of DVDs, T-shirts, etc tack on as value ads. Churches - biggest con job in the 4.5 billion years earth has been about.

      NodrogBob - 2011-02-04 14:25

      rogerwilco1 I think you're on some kind of hallucinogenic drug. I think you should be careful who you say is going to hell, that's for God to decide, but with your type of comments you sound like you could be the perfect candidate for HELL! Just because one organisation or Church group is doing that, and yes some of them are in it for the money, but not all of them are like that. You're like most people that put every church organisation in the same box.

      rogerwilco1 - 2011-02-04 14:51

      @NodrogBob My drug of choice is oxytocin. My point exactly, threaten people with hell as you just have. There is no heaven, there is no hell. It's all just a lovely story to keep the masses enslaved. Thinking intelligent people are the biggest threat to any totalitarian dictatorship.

      Worldwise - 2011-02-04 15:41

      Thanks Rogerwilco1. And what a totalitarian dictatorship religion is. You will listen to me, do as I say and live as I wish you to live or else you will burn in a fire forever! Got it! Wow, no choice whatsoever and we have to make do with all those bronze age rules about rape, slavery and shagging in Leviticus. Thats rich from NodrogBob, saying that Rogerwilco is on some hallucinogenic drug. Sheesh, what do you think that lot in the bible were on? I mean, claims of walking on water, turning water into wine, sticks that turn into snakes, a nude chick talking to a snake in a garden that tells her to eat some fruit, A place where fires burn forever, another place in the sky where people never die and all is warm and fuzzy etc. And the Piece le resistance; - The entire book of revelation. Man! that must have taken some powerful hallucinogins to come up with scenes like that!

      NodrogBob - 2011-02-04 16:13

      rogerwilco1 Really did I threaten you with Hell, no I didn't. I said you could possibly end up there and anyway that is the destination of those that don't believe in heaven or hell. On the other hand you said that I was going to "die and burn in hell forever," so who made the first statement or threat if that's what you want to call it. You did! You say there is no heaven or hell. Go on Youtube and type in the word hell and see how many testimonies there are from different people who claim to have been there, and look for consistencies in their testimonies. Why would they lie about it if Hell is the destiny of those that lie? Anyway I hold nothing against you for saying I'm going to hell, because I know that I aint.

      NodrogBob - 2011-02-04 16:25

      Worldwise I don't think you understand God's Word at all, and perhaps never will, but I hope you do one day! Maybe you should go and ask Him for some revelation and you'll have a different point of view! The Bible is the best selling book in the world and no other book has had better sales than it. That says something!

      rogerwilco1 - 2011-02-04 17:02

      @NodrogBob Ummm no read what I wrote in " " it was an hypothesis comparing the protection racket position of the church to that of organised crime, I say again; "You're going to die and burn in hell for ever - support our organisation and pay us/buy our merchandise and all will be just perfect" Versus "Your shop windows are going to break and your customers will go away - support our organisation and pay us and all will be just perfect" The above is not directed at anyone in particular rather the position of the subject under discussion. Moving on, are you saying people have died and gone to hell and then have been resurrected and come back to report it on You Tube? I thought the whole point of hell was it was eternal flames. Not a sort of temporary thing you could come back from? God gets annoyed and then she sends you to hell. Is this the "New Truth" - it must be true it was on You Tube?? The fact that the bible is great seller proves it is correct?? Harry Potter has been outselling the bible in recent years so are we to conclude that like You Tube that is the "New Truth"? Mao's Little Red Book was a pretty good seller as well. To be fair they did give away lots of copies which is also the case with the bible. Mein Kampf was a great seller at one time and that certainly didnt prove it to be a a good idea, did it now?

      NodrogBob - 2011-02-04 19:01

      So you said something that you didn't mean. when you write you should write a bit clearer. Now when I read it that you've explained it a 2nd time, I understand where you are coming from. I don't like the way you liken the Church to organisations such as the Mafia. Although I know there are fake evangelists out there, they will get their due reward for their greed. My church fellowship doesn't carry on that way and no way do we want their money if it comes from a wrong motive or heart. All those books you mentioned have been only best sellers for temporary periods, but not consistent as the Bible has. I can understand why the Harry Potter books are out selling the Bible, because of the wickedness in this world due to God being kicked out of society. On the subject of hell, I am not saying that Youtube is the new truth. The fact is that God can allow people to have a taste of heaven or hell and for the dead to come back from the dead. Why would these people lie about it. As I said before hell is the destiny of all liars. There's more information out there with regard to hell than just on Youtube, there's even written testimonies to this. At the end of the day we're all going to die and the Word of God says : For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.(Rom 14:11-12)That means you to whether you believe that now or not, you will one day!

  • Louis - 2011-02-04 13:37

    Like lambs to the slaughter

  • k53 - 2011-02-04 15:09

    Christ said Many will come in His name and they’ll lead many astray. - very true!

  • SEMATSATSA - 2011-02-04 15:51

    If there are Nigerians involved in this,deport them.

      k53 - 2011-02-04 15:52

      Patsor Chris is Nigerian!

  • Alfred willie - 2011-02-04 17:06

    Brothers and sisters, i am one of the christ embassy proud member. I am also one of beneficiaries in terms of the false claims you are bussy pointing dirty fingures at without knowing. The sister who is your evidence according to your false and misjudgement, didn't died becoz she believed that the christ embassy said she mustn't take the medicine. But firstly, you believe that the holy spirit is in and you are being taught to communicate with it and be sure that the holy spirit is in you, therefore, it's that holy spirit which is going to guide you what to do. I am still taking my arvs medications while i believe i am healed. I am healed spiritualy because the holy spirit in me has said that and now i am waiting for that great moment which will bring me the news that my flesh is also benefited that healing. For you sake hypocrites and pharasees, then i will go for the test and provide you with that information, as right now i am confessing that spiritual i am healed for more if you want go to twitter.com/alfredwillie and facebook. There are many proofs and practical testimonies but the bible us not to through the perils before the pigs

      Alfred - 2011-02-04 17:23

      you're either psychotically delusional or a fraudulent scam artist. Please do us all a favour and stop taking your ARV's, or do you lack true faith?

      Mikemcc - 2011-02-04 17:30

      Dude are you sure you have not been making whoonga with your ARV's?

      Phlegm - 2011-02-04 18:19

      Oh Alfred, not sure what spirit you are taking in, but I don't think it is holy!

      SEMATSATSA - 2011-02-04 18:56

      Alfred wa tsenwa.karposis sarcoma on your brain maybe.

  • OccamsMachete - 2011-02-04 17:43

    "The ASA will be failing in its duty if it allows miracle cure [a phenomenon that is known to occur in very few instances] to be touted as an everyday cure that is available at Christ Embassy." "Known to occur"???? Really ASA? When? Where? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sean Sim: "The church was not going to make an apology for or backtrack on the belief in faith healing." They don't have to. What they do have to do is show that it works. If they can't they lose. QED! You'd think an attorney would appreciate the need for evidence a bit better.

  • OccamsMachete - 2011-02-04 17:50

    "The ASA will be failing in its duty if it allows miracle cure [a phenomenon that is known to occur in very few instances] to be touted as an everyday cure that is available at Christ Embassy." "Known to occur"???? Really ASA? When? Where? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sean Sim: "The church was not going to make an apology for or backtrack on the belief in faith healing." They don't have to. What they do have to do is show that it works. If they can't they lose. QED! You'd think an attorney would appreciate the need for evidence a bit better.

  • Karoobloed - 2011-02-06 05:33

    Well, well, I am a Christian, because I grew up with the Bible as my moral compass and there are many incredibly good things in that document. I ahevto admit that if happened to be a Jew, I probably would not have given up on the good things in the Talmud, and ditto for the Muslims and the Quran. If my parents were good secular humanists, I very well would have identified myself that way too. It is the way you are a Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or secular humanist that really counts. These Christian freak shows that originated in the US about a hundred years ago, where "pastors" with questionable training other than "charisma" performs "miracles", are doing more damage to Christianity than anything else. Why on Earth would God make people sick so that these idiots could take the credit for performing "miracles" while fleecing the money out of pockets of the gullible members of their "flocks". Sad, sad spectacles...

  • disturbedmikey - 2011-03-01 12:06

    I am just curious to see how far people would go to discredit god ? And not make people believe in the one source that gives us life the, Advertising of healing people should be taken with a pinch of salt. Yes we know Jesus Krishna and all other ones that came before him, Did miracles and everything and yet there is no proof except books, We read and times I think even they have being altered to suit man. The only way man can heal himself is if he finds the source within, Him and personally I feel that man must save himself not the other way Around get to look inside himself to find the missing part that lacks belief, And that part is god/man part where peace resides yes the woman died But did she not feel such a spiritual peace that she thought she was healed. And expected her own fate yes god heals bit in his own way,mabey she never, Did care to take her tablets cause she knew she was going to what people call. Heaven something to think about