News24

ASA complaint over church billboard

2012-07-11 07:44

Johannesburg - A complaint has been laid with the Advertising Standards Authority about an allegedly homophobic church billboard in Pretoria.

The billboard features the naked torso of a man surrounded by the words "drug abuse", "promiscuity", "alcoholism" and "homosexuality". It is captioned: "whom the son sets free is free indeed", and is signed: "Light of the Nation Church".

"What annoyed me is they lumped homosexuality with other things such as drug abuse, alcoholism and promiscuity. Those are behaviours that people can control," said complainant Francois Joubert, from Pretoria.

Billboard ‘unethical’

He first saw the billboard a week ago and again while driving with his spouse Werner Nieuwoudt on Sunday, when they photographed it on the corner of Solomon Mahlangu and Bendeman streets in the Silver Lakes area.

In his complaint, Joubert contended that the billboard was inaccurate and unethical because it suggested that a sexual orientation, such as homosexuality, could be changed with the church's help.

The local Gay rights group OUT also condemned the billboard.

"It uses discrimination against the homosexual community in order to bring people to their services," said OUT director Dawie Nel.

He said the billboard would cause some homosexuals to believe they could be "cured", but instead caused them harm.

Word to be removed

Light of the Nations Church senior pastor Deric Linley said in a statement on Monday that the word "homosexuality" would be removed from the billboard.

He said the billboard was intended to "highlight aspects and challenges of everyday life" and not "sins".

"It was never the intention of Light of the Nations to discriminate against any group, but purely to offer a non-judgmental refuge for people dealing with issues in their personal life," Linley said.

ASA senior consultant for consumer complaints Selloane Khosi confirmed that a complaint about the billboard had been brought against the church.

Comments
  • Tommo - 2012-07-11 07:56

    Take it off straight away. And i dont believe the pastors explanation!!

      jrheeder - 2012-07-11 08:17

      Telling someone that they cannot be gay because THEY don't belive it is right is like telling someone that we cannot eat a cookie because THEY are on diet. I am not gay but I fully agree that how can someone else be allowed to make those kinds of decisions for us, when ultimately it doesnt affect THEM in the slightest.

      Average_Joe - 2012-07-11 08:21

      One of my gay friends once told me: When you are born you choose your religion. I was born gay. Pretty much sums it up.

      michele.holmes.1238 - 2012-07-11 08:30

      Agreed jrheeder - this is why I personally do not believe in organised religion, a human being telling you what you should believe is just somehow does not seem right.

      eric.vanvuuren - 2012-07-11 08:34

      Hahahaha!!! Ah, Religion, getting it wrong again. When you deal with ultimatums, life becomes too black and white.

      JohanCduToit - 2012-07-11 08:37

      Things like this makes me embarrassed that I used to be a christian.

      kobus.hattingh.5 - 2012-07-11 08:39

      Johan, you were never a Christian. If you were you would believe what is written in the Bible and you clearly dont. They can censor and even delete the Words of God but it stands forever!

      marni.van.emmenis - 2012-07-11 08:51

      @kobus, nobody is/was deleting the Words of God, merely those of a fanatical and misguided person. It's interesting how some "Christians" pick which parts of the Bible they believe...

      Andrew - 2012-07-11 08:55

      //but purely to offer a non-judgmental...// yea right, you have a great track-record when it comes to being judgemental

      kobus.hattingh.5 - 2012-07-11 09:04

      Marni, go read Romans 1, 6 Corinthians and all the verses containing the word Sodom in it. Now tell me, are Christians even allowed to quote from the Bible? Nope. The truth is now regarded as hate speach. It really is that simple...

      badballie - 2012-07-11 09:06

      Time for people to pull their heads out of the sand and realize why Homosexuality was originally declared a "sin". Without comprehension of our past we have no future.

      JohanCduToit - 2012-07-11 09:15

      Kobus, I might not have been a "real" christian in your eyes, but the fact is I told people that I was. And I am embarrassed that I did.

      jarryd.lakay - 2012-07-11 10:07

      "A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed." (Deuteronomy 22:13-21) Oh yeah. We can quote the Bible too.

      sipho.songa - 2012-07-11 10:59

      Don't understand why there's such a fuss about this,as far as I'm concerned two men together sexually is not normal .... a woman is made for a man!

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 11:09

      Kobus - come out the closet already. Sipho, then explain why a mans gspot is in his rear. You okes are so delusional, homophobia is just as bad as xenophobia and racism. Can someone help it if they're born an Albino? Well gay people can't help the way they are born either. It's not some sort of fashion choice you nits.

      merven.halo - 2012-07-11 14:10

      Lol, I see they even got 'Depression' on their board! The board reads like a sangoma advert.

      jarryd.lakay - 2012-07-11 15:31

      @ Sipho.. It's quite ironic how you label Hugh's defence as being 'weak', yet you fail to even supply a basis for your retort, let alone a worthy defence. This, in itself, illustrates your competency level - that of utter stupidity. Nevertheless, I will provide you with the retort that you so admirably deserve (please note the sarcasm). Your argument is baseless, insolent and really offensive. How dare you make such a racist, defamatory and generalized remark and still have the nerve to call yourself a Christian. Homosexuality is found in almost 300 DIFFERENT ANIMAL SPECIES - so don't tell me it's a choice because the last I checked an animal didn't have the ability to think for itself with a conscience. Animals live by matter of INSTINCT, NOT MORALITY!

      sipho.songa - 2012-07-11 20:20

      @jay ... it's amazing how you compare humans to animals ... we are not animals, don't compare us to the "300 species who are homosexual" Stupid argument! Get yourself a woman, nothing nicer!

      ruudzlaffl.bairdimpfl - 2012-07-11 20:45

      Sipho, his reference to animals, as being part of nature, is possibly as a counter to the old and refuted arguments raised that to be gay is 'unnatural' and a 'woman is made for a man'. I can tell you that not all woman are made for me at all. At this stage I only know one made for me - the one I married.

      atholl.hay - 2012-07-12 13:35

      Sipho Songa and Kobus Hattingh's names always pop up on debates around homosexuality. Their obsession is a dead give away. It's okay boys, its 2012, you can come of your closets now.

      sipho.songa - 2012-07-12 14:07

      A-holl .. someone has to speak up on behalf of normal people .. most people do not want any trouble. I have no need to be touched by a man ... ugh ... no thank you ... give me a sweet soft beautiful woman!

      chris.cunning.14 - 2012-07-13 14:35

      @Jay1600: 300! WHAHAHAHAHA. Man i laughed so hard i was crying. What a total load of crap. So the bum is designed for the penis hey? couldn't be designed for say, I don't know, having a dump? And girls last longer than guys anyways, image the gspot in another place, shoo, we'd never repopulate the earth.

      chris.cunning.14 - 2012-07-13 14:35

      @360beefcake: WHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

      jarryd.lakay - 2012-07-13 16:14

      @ Chris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals "No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue." Please refrain from making callous and presumptuous remarks over an issue you clearly are blissfully unaware of. It just makes you look like a bigger moron than you already have asserted yourself to be.

      rian.jagger.3 - 2013-03-01 17:07

      I tried the other day to connect my television's plug onto / into another television's plug. It didn't work. I did not know that two male plugs can't fit onto each other... Apparently you must plug a male plug into a female plug. Connecting male plugs onto each other caused an electricity short. And plugging a male plug into the wrong hole causes a lot of SH@T... Gay relationships is directly against the laws of NATURE... Nothing to do with Christianity. It is 90% of the time due to a consequence of being brought up in the wrong way of where a father figure was absent or a broken home.

  • cameron.brown.984 - 2012-07-11 08:07

    http://izismile.com/2012/07/10/morning_picdump_58_pics-23.html

  • justinasher - 2012-07-11 08:09

    Damn these church guys are good marketers. A billboard in the middle of who knows where and it's gotten national coverage.

      dave.prinsloo - 2012-07-11 08:10

      yip, selling jesus is huge business

      Stille - 2012-07-11 08:15

      Silverlakes is not in the middle of who knows where. Its a VERY affluent suburb in Pretoria.

      E=MC2 - 2012-07-11 08:19

      as is him... apparently. hey Dave.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 14:32

      Jesus has the biggest FAN CLUB on earth ..2 300 000 000 and growing daily, so suck it up atheists!

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-11 15:05

      @ paulthecock - growing? Hahahaa. Check again buddy, Christianity is on the decline. People are waking up to all this god BS. And rightfully so.

      Pulverturm - 2012-07-11 15:09

      Paulthebok, what's your point? So what? Justin Bieber also has a big fan base, I still don't like his music!

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-11 16:04

      paul it is on the decline, look around, the heathens are back my son, the beginning is near.

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-12 07:05

      Judges 19:22-30 New International Version (NIV)22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him. ”23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight.27 When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold.

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-12 07:05

      28 He said to her, “Get up; let’s go.” But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.29 When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. 30 Everyone who saw it was saying to one another, “Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Just imagine! We must do something! So speak up! ”

      paulthebok - 2012-07-12 09:13

      @ JManAtheoi & martin.britchford.5 Declining you say ...LMAO ... typical atheists, talk BS and hope your liess stick !! Here is the TRUTH.... In 2010, there were 2.30 billion Christians in the world, an increase of 300 million from two billion in 2005. The increase in the Christian population is growing at a slightly higher rate than the world population – 1.3 percent per year, when the total world population increased with 1.2 percent. The Christian population in Asia and Africa had the highest growth with 2.6 percent and 2.4 percent, respectively, but the Christian population is declining in Europe. Although the number of Muslims and Hindus – 1.6 billion Muslims and 870 million Hindus – are less than Christians, the Muslim population has grown at a rate of 1.9 percent per year and the Hindu population has grown at a rate of 1.5 percent per year, however charismatic Christianity and independent churches are growing at the fastest, at 2.4 percent per year[1].

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-12 09:52

      @ Paulthebok - nice Wikipedia copy and paste job there! Increasing in Africa? Good for you! But at least you mentioned the decline in Europe (or Wiki did) and you forgot to look at America. I.e. this covers the two biggest "first world populations" if I can call it that. So maybe your should read some CHRISTIAN sites instead....and then LYAO all you want. I'll give you one example... (but there are MANY) http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2012/04/09/why-is-christianity-on-the-decline-in-america/ Do some more research (past Wikipedia - i.e. try and see what YOUR people have to say) and then check if you can still "LYAO"...all the way to the church.

      sipho.songa - 2012-07-12 14:04

      You must ask why is it declining? Because of the gay community who is trying to make all normal people believe that the gay lifestyle is the way to go! Back to the closet I say!

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-12 15:09

      Sipho, if you have nothing real to say, or no clue (in this case both) just STFU.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-12 16:57

      @ JManAtheoi Did I say this was my own work? Or are you trying to say wikipedia is not reliable, I find that starnge because you atheist use the wiki quite alot on these pages. Or are you just full of sh_t? As for your BS declining statement it remains just that just one more atheist lie! Christianity is growing at a faster pace than the world population rate, amazing hey, as not all Christians are of child bearing age or are past child bearing age! Therefore more and more people that weren't born intio Christianity are either converting or becoming believers for the first time ... and just wait till Jesus's message spreads through China ...BOOMTIME !!! As for the decline in Europe and the USA, all i can say is this... no wonder those countries are going down the Sh_tter, finacially , rampant atheist greed !

      paulthebok - 2012-07-12 17:06

      @JManAtheoi More bad news for you!! China ... In the early 1970s, there were an estimated 3 million Christians in China. Now, the number may be as high as 130 million. However, the government continues to keep a close eye on the activities of officials churches and there has been sporadic persecution against Christians belonging to unofficial house churches. "The Chinese government will not raid unless provoked. Now being the fastest growing economy, they know the importance of a harmonious society. To promote such a society, they are giving religion a special role," says Chunakara. For instance, the Communist Government amended the Constitution two years ago to accommodate the role of religion. "You could not expect such a thing to happen 15 years ago," Chunakara said. “Not only China, in many Asian countries the church is expanding. More people are coming to God. In addition, the participation of young people is absolutely remarkable in comparison with those in West. There is genuine spiritual eagerness among the grassroot level people,” said Chunakara. He says God is using the foolish to shame the wise. "While Christianity is dying in the West, God is bringing a spiritual awakening in third world countries like India and China." Not my Own work ...a copy paste job ...so just read it and weep. Here's a good link too ... more tears for you! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11020947

      john.doeslough - 2012-07-12 17:34

      I am actually willing to believe that the number of Christians is increasing... That would explain why the world is getting dumber

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-13 09:29

      @ Paulthebok - we can do this all day long... getting (selected) quotes from the net, and making our case against each other, with someone else s words. (BTW - 'Chunakara' - Really?) And based on your comments below, which you so vehemently stand by, I will rest my case. And don't worry, I'm not crying, I'm actually still laughing.

  • Gordon Turner - 2012-07-11 08:11

    You can get away with the most outrageous, stupid and bigoted statements as long as you have "religion" as your cover. One always wonders if there isn't a large closet these homophobic priests meet in... Or maybe an airport toilet. (Ted Haggert anyone)

      vivienne.midlane - 2012-07-11 10:24

      Why is freedom of sexual thought given more weight than freedom of religious thought? The biggest hypocrites are the anti-christians in this story.

      sipho.songa - 2012-07-11 11:02

      Homo's always say others are bigots if they don't agree with their lifestyle, I'll rather be a bigot than a homo, and be with my sweet woman!

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 11:07

      We are born with sex ingrained in us, all of us, all living things. We are NOT born with religion in us, that is something that is forced upon us as children.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 14:40

      @ Wesley But I've seen you on many a page here , insulting our "imaginary fairy god man' , yes it is our duty to try lead the lost onto the path of righteousness , so repent Wesley for your blasphemy.

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-11 15:06

      @ paulthecock - its only "blasphemy" when you believe in fairytales with talking snakes and whatnot.

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-11 16:38

      this be ye priests glory hole

      ruudzlaffl.bairdimpfl - 2012-07-11 20:56

      vivienne, sexual and religious thoughts are both free to be done in a democratic society (except in religion as it also wants to dictate your sexual thoughts).

  • ianon.ym - 2012-07-11 08:14

    Perhaps, Light of the Nation Church - is advertising itself.

      Stille - 2012-07-11 08:54

      "make me go to their church " ? - lol...really?

  • nicolas.korff - 2012-07-11 08:15

    Do not generalize. If someone commits murder does this make everybody murderers? No. If it is one thing God gave us it is choice. It is about YOU and God nobody else who are we to judge anyone? We will be standing in front of God by ourselves and ONLY ourselves need to answer for the choices we made.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 14:49

      It's not judging the sinner but rather the sin, I don't hear anyone of you atheists complaing about the drugabuse, promiscuity and alcoholism part of the billboard , I wonder why homosexuality should be given preferential treatment.

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-11 15:07

      @ paulthecock - yeah you "wonder". Because you don't even know the difference. And this in 2012. Shame. Says a lot about you.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-12 08:06

      @JManAtheoi What does it say about me? Are you implying I'm a homophobe? Well you wrong, I have a gay member of my family, over the years of my life I've had gay friends, clients and aquaintences and have found that that are people just like anyone else, some are a-holes, others are cool and fun. So get off your high horse, don't be so touchy, in the bible all those things are called sins and the billboard does not dicriminate, that's all I was saying.

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-12 09:59

      @ Paulthebok - High Horse? Me? noooo.... I'm not the one basically putting "you will all burn in hell if you're gay" on billboards in cities and calimuing that to be the truth nogal. I'm not the one trying to tell billions of people how they should live their lives and whom they are allowed to love, and then pay me money for telling them etc. Pathetic. You have gay friends? Do they know how you (really) feel (about them)? . In your eyes, being gay is a sin. Rape & Murder etc is also a sin. So by that "logic", you classify your "friends" the same as a rapist. You call yourself their friend? Give me a break. Religious folk (ESPECIALLY Christians) should come from their high horses. And soon.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-12 17:16

      @JManAtheoi It's the SIN ... Not the Sinner! I did not make the rules!

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-13 09:32

      Exactly - who does/did? And when? And why? And please...spare me your "Its not my fault I'm a bigot who believes life on earth is 6000 years old etc" routine. you hypocrites are all the same.

  • andriette.bergakker - 2012-07-11 08:26

    According to this billboard, diets are also a sin.

  • bj.pieman - 2012-07-11 08:29

    Is Pedophilia on the poster? I guess not, as it seems allowed for priests.

      merven.halo - 2012-07-11 13:37

      As long as they don't dance! Through dance come sins.

  • dave.ueckermann - 2012-07-11 08:32

    If a gay couple can have children the natural way , without any scientific interferrence, it may swing my thoughts that it is a natural relationship

      charlie.elford.5 - 2012-07-11 08:35

      So, Daveu, infertile couples who can only conceive with the assistance of a medical practitioner, are also in an "unnatural relationship?"

      charlie.elford.5 - 2012-07-11 08:35

      I'm referring to infertile HETEROsexual couples, btw

      mbossenger - 2012-07-11 08:44

      So only relationships that can produce offspring are natural? Is there a new definition of the word natural that I am not aware of?

      Stille - 2012-07-11 09:01

      I agree, but to avoid the same old normal bs response to your statment, perhaps you should have said " If a male was anatomically designed to bear a child and a woman was able to fertilise herself or by someone of the same sex without medical interference, it could be considered natural"

      LanfearM - 2012-07-11 09:51

      What an obtuse comment. It IS natural, just as infertility is natural.

      elewies - 2012-07-11 10:52

      Daveu my grandmother (she's now 69) got remarried [to a man] last year after my grandfather passed away about 10 years ago. Is her marriage also unnatural? What about heterosexual couples who DECIDE not to have children... Are their marriage also unnatural?

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 11:11

      So a straight couple that can't get pregnant naturally, who go for IVF, according to you, are not a natural couple? Or are only straight people allowed to benefit from the advances in science? Bladdy hypocritical bigot

      Irene - 2012-07-11 11:12

      @Sipho ~ You seriously need to be educated. So when you look at your "sweet woman" (your words) is it not with lust?

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 11:12

      The 1500 species of animals that have homosexual relationships/bonds are unnatural and therefore going to hell? Shame the poor animals never had a chance... what a lovely god you have Daveu

      Irene - 2012-07-11 11:37

      @Sipho ~ Interesting that with you it's 'love' but with a gay person it's 'lust'. By the way, I love my wife exactly like you love your wife. So what's the difference? I'll tell you what the difference is, you're too narrow minded and uneducated to see that love between two people, regardless of their sex, isn't a sin.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 12:08

      @sipho Not all gay men have anal sex... shows how much you actually know. Get an education. And fyi... the woman's vagina has more bacteria in it than the anus/rectum... that is why it is acidic and prone to get thrush...

      NatashaDawnQuinn - 2012-07-11 12:17

      Sipho, Scared of the opposite sex? Are you for real? I am with women because I love everything about a woman, everything a man emotionally and physically cannot give me as a person based on my personal needs. I am not a man hating lesbian, on the contrary I get along with men quite well, I just prefer not to sleep with them. Do hetrosexual people not experience lust? Well if that's the case, come on over to the dark side we clearly are having a better time!

      LanfearM - 2012-07-11 12:19

      @ Sipho.songa - and why wouldn't it be love? Why is sex with your wife from love but two gay men [or women] having sex is lust not love? That is such an illogical argument.

      john.doeslough - 2012-07-11 12:38

      "...and a woman was able to fertilise herself ..." as @StilleWaters puts it. You kidding me right? Because according to the 'book' you believe in, there is someone that managed to do this....her name was Mary and she gave birth to a chap called Jesus...

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 14:56

      @Lanfear Infertility is a mecical condition and can be treated medically, are you suggesting being Gay is too?

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-11 16:20

      @ paulthecock - No. And that is exactly the point. Its not a "condition" and thus not "treatable". The church claims it can "treat" it. What a load of 1600's t0$$.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-12 17:17

      So says you!

  • hendrik.leroux.7 - 2012-07-11 08:33

    - "Die wat praat, weet nie, en die wat weet, praat nie" + "A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul." + "They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them." I pity you, for you have heard, and thus cannot stand before God one day and plead ignorance.

      Gordon Turner - 2012-07-11 08:39

      Thanks, I'll take my chances by being decent in this life, you can worry about the next one.

      charlie.elford.5 - 2012-07-11 08:43

      Well said, Gordon!

      mbossenger - 2012-07-11 10:38

      The thought of spending eternity with hendrik is a terrifying one - I'll take my chances with hell, if it's all the same to you.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 11:15

      Your pathetic murderous god doesn't exist... so none of us will be entering heaven, because hey, that fairytale place doesn't exist either.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 15:02

      So say THE ALL KNOWING ATHEIStS ... you guys are so clever , you've got it all worked out, good for you !

      ruudzlaffl.bairdimpfl - 2012-07-11 21:06

      To think that guys like hendrik are actually of the opinion that they can scare people into religion, by threatening them with 'standing before Gog one day', Pathetic. Next thing we hear is that gays and atheists are going to hell. It's like a hippie that threatens to hit me with his aura.

  • julian.booyens - 2012-07-11 08:35

    The atheist's havent arrived yet, thats gives me time to get my popcorn sit back and enjoy the show....

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 15:04

      Yes they are a real comedy show ...lol!1

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-11 15:21

      ...says the guy who believes that snakes can talk and the world is 6000 years old. The joke's on you, trust me.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-12 08:13

      Yes, but it wasn't the snake talking, it was Satan in the form of a snake! The earth is not 6000 years old , but life on earth is 6000yrs old.

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-12 10:00

      HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! "Life on earth is 6000 yrs old!" I rest my case.

      john.doeslough - 2012-07-12 11:15

      @paulthebok... You are the biggest idiot on this forum. Life on earth is 6000 years old??? Please tell me you just a troll and that you are really not that stupid?

      paulthebok - 2012-07-12 17:20

      John ... you can't even spell laugh,idiot, I satand by my beliefs and statements!

      john.doeslough - 2012-07-12 17:30

      And I stand (note the correct spelling)by the belief that you are an idiot

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-13 09:23

      Sorry Paulthebok - if you REALLY try and "argue" that life on earth is 6000 yrs old, I can't take you seriously any more. If you think/believe that, all your "arguments" are (based on) a joke. So I won't argue with someone who is just plain ignorant. 6000 yrs old....I mean really.

  • kaMazibuko - 2012-07-11 08:45

    Freedom of speech!!! As a Christian I believe homosexuality is immoral so why shouldn't I be able to speak out against it ? As long as I'm not saying all homosexual people should be killed then I'm within my rights to disapprove.

      mofstok - 2012-07-11 08:57

      Of course you are within your rights to disapprove. I am within my rights to disapprove of hipsters, as are atheists to disappprove of my faith.

      kaMazibuko - 2012-07-11 09:26

      @lindi Just bcoz I speak out against homosexuality doesn't mean I spend the rest of my day ranting online about it. Im against everything u mentioned below n when apropriate i'll speak out against it. It's none of my business yes but why do all gay people have to be such attention seekers ? I bet u more than half of the people that are homosexual choose that orientation bcoz of the attention it brings them.

      melania.nel - 2012-07-11 09:38

      I agree with mazibuko on what his beliefs are but really people, you don't have to agree to what he is saying. Why this big fuss anyway. There's lots of religions that teach horrible things. Let them be. Its their choice.

      mbossenger - 2012-07-11 10:40

      "I bet u more than half of the people that are homosexual choose that orientation bcoz of the attention it brings them." - Well, that makes perfect sense, doesn't it. They chose to be homosexual so intellectual giants like you could persecute them /sarcasm.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 11:19

      @kaMazibuko We don't always seek attention. We just want what everyone else has the right to... We have been persecuted for hundreds of years by straight people, and now humanity is in a different era, therefore we WILL fight for our rights. The days of homosexual oppression by hetero's are over, deal with it

      kaMazibuko - 2012-07-11 11:27

      @mbossenger, If you're meeting me for a business discussion the first thing I must notice about u shouldnt be that you're a flamboyant gay dude, its irrelevant. Arrive neatly dressed and look organised and I'll be like "doing business with this guy will be a pleasant experience"

      Irene - 2012-07-11 11:38

      kaMzaibuko ~ You're doing business with gay people all the time but just don't realise it. LOL!

      mbossenger - 2012-07-11 11:46

      kaMazibuko - If I was doing business with you, my judgement would be based on your business knowledge and acumen, not your sexual orientation...

      kaMazibuko - 2012-07-11 11:51

      @wesley ok i withdraw that, but I still believe most of them are attention seekers. Ideally i'd like us as a society to not make homosexual people feel the need to show they are gay and proud. Just like my disapproval of homosexuality is not something I wanna express such that when i see a gay person ill spit next to them. Its not necessary, just like im a christian but dont feel the need to stop people on the road and preach the gospel to them. Just live your life for yourself Lol @irene that's even better, it shouldn't matter

      kaMazibuko - 2012-07-11 12:28

      @mbossenger of cos that should be the case, but first impressions count and I dont want my first impression of people to be based on their sexual orientation

      merven.halo - 2012-07-11 13:45

      Tell us kaMazibuko, when your priest molest young boys, is that classified as being gay or 'priest rights'?

      kaMazibuko - 2012-07-11 14:31

      @merven, ure just being ignorant now. abuse of any kind is not condoned by christianity its just unfortunate that some ppl do these things in the church disguised as priests

      mbossenger - 2012-07-11 16:27

      And it's unfortunate the church chose to shelter those priests...

  • arne.verhoef - 2012-07-11 08:49

    Under the guise of christianity: Discrimination of women was actively pursued, making them out to be property; Apartheid was justified; slavery and war are justified. We got past that, didnt we? Why? Because we know discrimination is wrong. Now, go screw yourself you bacon eating, beard-styling, self enriching bastard of a pastor. Im pretty sure you are uncircumcised too.

      massimo.zanette.5 - 2012-07-11 10:53

      Nice one Arne - now you have painted yourself with the same brush he did - because you chose to \describe\ him in your own mind, and decided that you know exactly what he is like. Apart from beinth the preacher from a church, you actually know nothing about him. But that does not matter - you judge him as he judges others!

      arne.verhoef - 2012-07-11 11:17

      I know massimo, rather ironic, don't you think? I stick to my assumptions though, knowing what he looks like, and how that church(rather, business) is run. Just for good measure, I think I should hint at paedophilia, but I wont...

      Pulverturm - 2012-07-11 15:05

      Sipho has a lot of stupidity... no education??

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 15:14

      Yes Anne because even most of those paedophiliac priests are gay if you look at who their victims were, AND YES christians are sinners too, we not immune from sin !!

      arne.verhoef - 2012-07-11 15:51

      Paul, please do not take this as an attack on christians. See it rather as an attack of those using the word of god, to further their bigotry

      paulthebok - 2012-07-12 08:21

      @Anne Take a look at your 1st comment, is that not an attack on Christianity? Were you not being a "bigot" by implying priest are paedophiles?

      arne.verhoef - 2012-07-12 08:42

      Can you see my name is Arne, not anne. It shows how you guys work, you see something once, you make up your mind, and no amount of gentle coaxing or electroshock therapy will change it. Can you see the structure of my sentence? Let me give you a definition of guise: "An external form, appearance, or manner of presentation, typically concealing the true nature of something." So no, I was merely referring to people using the word of God as a means to further their bigotry. And no, I was not being a bigot(look it up) by hinting at paedophilia. Rather slightly unsuccessful at being funny. You bigots take humour rather seriously. Lastly, just a piece of advice: Open your mind, and free your soul.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-12 17:23

      Annie Annie Annie .. touchy are we? You are the bigot here ... full stop!

  • Dawn Campbell Gibson - 2012-07-11 08:51

    Christian - Hypocrites. No more words are needed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      mofstok - 2012-07-11 09:02

      Stop generalising. So much for your non-judgemental attitude, hypocrate.

      massimo.zanette.5 - 2012-07-11 10:51

      @Dawn, truth be told, most people today are hypocrites, in fact, I'm sure you are one too. But, that said, I am as at fault as you are to generalize. MAYBE, and just maybe, your circle of friends / acquaintances fall into that description, and that's why you have such a negative attitude!

  • rudie.stoltz - 2012-07-11 08:53

    Listen. Most gay people are what was mentioned in the billboard and any gay man knows it. Sin is sin.

      arne.verhoef - 2012-07-11 08:55

      and a bigot a bigot

      mbossenger - 2012-07-11 10:54

      I nominate rudie for the Most Ill Informed Comment of the Year award

      sipho.songa - 2012-07-11 11:08

      But gays are really the "bigots" ... they are the ones opposed to normal relationships!

      Irene - 2012-07-11 11:14

      mbossenger ~ I'll second your nomination! Sipho needs to be included though as he is equally ignorant.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 11:22

      I am atheist, therefore not a sinner, i am not an alcoholic, i am not a paedophile.

      merven.halo - 2012-07-11 13:52

      You are right rudie, sin is sin. To judge is also a sin.

      Moi - 2012-07-11 14:19

      Sipho, who gave you the right to decide what's normal and what isn't?

      Pulverturm - 2012-07-11 15:03

      Sin only exists in your little book of Fairy tales. Stop worrying about what other adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms. Your disdain for homosexuality says more about you than it does about homosexuals!

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-11 15:09

      Wow. What a load of cr@p. Don't you people get tired of being "good" on sunday and pure hypocrites the rest of the time?

  • vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-07-11 08:54

    Oh sure, you never meant to cause offence to homosexuals. But you still believe that they are going to burn in hell for being gay. And no thoughts on the subtle biblical references to the possible homosexual relationship between jesus and john?

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-07-11 12:49

      Quite right Wesley. Christians are fond of gloating that their god is no respecter of any person. Clearly then He would do any person, male or female. I wonder if He was also into bestiality? The animals went in two-by-two, why? To keep Noah warm? The deeper I dig, the dirtier this religion becomes.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 13:07

      Lol oooh they are gonna hate!

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-07-11 13:32

      Not at all. They are incapable of hate. Their god is one of love and compassion. As He so amply illustrated when He created hell, sin, evil, satan, rape, murder, homosexuality (haha) etc.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 15:31

      Yes guys ... WE STILL LOVE YOU ...even if you are gay blaspheming sinners ... HEY NOONE'S PERFECT ...we all sin!

      Tommo - 2012-07-12 00:26

      And between David and Jonathan...

  • Dawn Campbell Gibson - 2012-07-11 08:59

    No one has ever been stoned to death by an atheist!!!

      mofstok - 2012-07-11 09:06

      WE GET IT. YOU ARE AN ATHEIST. Well done. Anything else you want to share, oh enlightened one?

      watsongeorgejan - 2012-07-11 09:53

      Jeffrey Dahmer is an atheist!!!

      john.doeslough - 2012-07-11 10:00

      @watsongeorgejan, and your point being? Do you know who was christian? The men that persecuted and burned witches at the stake, the people that chased and killed jews during the inquisition, the men of th Ku Klux Kan, priests that fondle little boys..... I can keep on going if you want but you get my point

      brian.exmachina - 2012-07-11 12:59

      "Jeffrey Dahmer is an atheist!!!" Oh no! Not that! Wait, isn't like 70-90% of the USA Christian. I guess that means that 70-90% of crime is committed by Christians. In fact most mass murderers and serial killers must be Christian. Using your logic: OMGZORS!1 Teh Christianitie is makin tehm krasie!

      Pulverturm - 2012-07-11 15:01

      Jeffrey Dahmer didn't commit his crimes in the name of Atheism!

      paulthebok - 2012-07-12 17:26

      Famous Atheists Hitler, PolPot, Stalin and Marx.

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-13 09:35

      Hitler an atheist?... Do you really know NOTHING factual? Or do you just choose to ignore the facts for your own little gain? Like most christians? Seriously. if you want to make your point (in the name of christians), which is your full right, at least try not to change history for your own personal agenda. It sounds desperate and pathetic.

  • pierrie.vandermerwe - 2012-07-11 09:03

    one sin is never bigger than the other ,we all are guilty before the Lord and therefore at his mercy,the bilboard actually does make it out that certain sins are bigger than others,the board as a whole should be removed

  • badballie - 2012-07-11 09:04

    "It was never the intention of Light of the Nations to discriminate against any group, but purely to offer a non-judgmental refuge for people dealing with issues in their personal life," Linley said Although I have no time for worshiping benevolent zombies or any other deity, it must be highlighted and repeated pointed out that the church is out of line with the bible and is therefor a false religion.

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 15:33

      Why ? For condeming sin?

      Pierre - 2012-07-11 21:24

      Christianity has nothing to do with religion. It's all about relationship. Relationship with God.

      martinh82 - 2012-07-12 14:22

      @pierre. Being part of an organization(church) that believes in the super natural(God/divine Jesus) and have rituals(prayer, singing, mass) IS religion. Don't be a twit.

      martinh82 - 2012-07-12 14:30

      @paulthebok. If you ever wore a polyester/cotton shirt (most button shirts less than R200), ate shellfish (prawns etc) or slept with a woman before marraige, then you should be damned to hell too. All these guidelines are a couple of paragraphs away from gay=sin part in the Bible. And don't give me the bullcrap that Old Testament rules are invalidated by Jesus. Matthew 5:17 Jesus himself says: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." These are laws by Moses, one of the prophets.

  • johlene.vanoordt - 2012-07-11 09:06

    I think humans have too many rights. We are not as special we would like to believe.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 11:26

      Feel free to emigrate to to Saudi Arabia then and give up all your rights as a woman...

  • royal.raccoon.7 - 2012-07-11 09:06

    This sums it up for me: http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljokebushbible.htm

  • Mondli - 2012-07-11 09:08

    This is what happens when we condone offensive expressions as 'freedom of expression". Every human being has rights and it is our duty for our rights not to infringe on others' rights. Why aren't people hailing this as they hailed The Spear and Zapiro's cartoons? I'm in no way condoning the church's actions but pointing out the hypocrisy and the biased intolerance we as the people have

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-07-11 09:30

      I think that the main difference is that the cartoon was about just one man, who has clearly done and said enough stupid things to warrant such reaction. This billboard has the audacity to compare homosexuality with evil. The homosexual sector of society has done nothing to offend this church, or the scourge of christianity in general, has it?

      phae.rayden - 2012-07-11 09:42

      These are two entirely different situations. One is depicting an entire group of people as broken because they were born with a certain sexual orientation, as a billboard saying all people with red hair are evil and can be helped would do. The other was to depict a promiscuous, weak man in a position of power by painting it, this was an artistic opinion of the behaviour of a person, and that Mondli is freedom of expression. Homosexuals as a section of society have been persecuted forever, especially in Africa, so they have every right to complain about this billboard. Zuma on the other hand is asking to be mocked about his own continuous questionable behaviour as the president of a country.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 11:28

      Clearly homosexuals make them insecure about themselves and their own sexuality... otherwise they wouldn't make such a fuss about it.

      Irene - 2012-07-11 11:40

      @Wesley ~ You've hit the nail on the head.

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-07-11 12:42

      And jesus pimped out his 12 apostles to force people to believe in his lies. And you idiots fell for it. Keep your religion to yourselves, we do not want it.

      Mondli - 2012-07-11 13:56

      vernon & phae, I think you missed my point here. Yes the situations are different, but no one has the right demean another human being. Yes people are not happy about Zuma's leadership but criticise that not him as individual and his choices he makes about his life. If I take both your train of thoughts then I would defend the church and say it's ok to demean homosexuals because in the churche's view they are "wrong" to be homosexual. Which is of course the wrong way of looking at it. Having more than one wife is nothin new in Zulu culture and many other cultures in the world. It does not give anyone the right to demean the other person just because they don't understand or accept their choices in how they live. This is why I am saying we are hypocritical in our tolerance to each other about our differences. It's a case of "If I like you I'll defend you" and not a case of principle.

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-07-11 14:45

      Understood Mondi. However, it is not so much Zuma's wives that get up my nose. He has children out of wedlock. He is promiscuous with friend's children. He says that having a shower after sex may minimise hiv infection. He also made several comments that offended christians as well. Someone in his position of authority and influence needs to be more circumspect as millions take his word as acceptable. We pay his salary and trust him to look after the best interests of our country. If he abuses that privilege, it is our right and indeed duty, to cut him down to size. That is not hypocricy - that is democracy.

      Mondli - 2012-07-11 15:27

      hahahaha...then by all means cut him down to size vernon but my plea is let us not stoop to a level of demeaning and humiliating each other just so our voice can be heard because then, we become worse that the people we are trying to criticise. Remember, democracy teaches us to be respectful and tolerant of our differences ;)

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 15:45

      Hey ...why are none of you standing up for the rights of drug abusers and alcoholics .... IT's DISCRIMINATION ... and don't tell me they weren't born that way, addiction runs in the family!! Stop playining the victim here , the billboard condems SIN ...NOT THE SINNERS!!! If they were comdeming the sinners why would they be inviting them into their flock ?????? Think about it!

      phae.rayden - 2012-07-13 13:51

      Cool Mondli, this is freedom of expression level 1. If you think the two are the same that's fine and you are entiled to your opinion. However, if the church and pastor were threatened in anyway, as Brett and Goodman Gallery were, I would have protected their right to display it. This is freedom of expression level 2.

      phae.rayden - 2012-07-13 13:52

      Cool Mondli, this is freedom of expression level 1. If you think the two are the same that's fine and you are entiled to your opinion. However, if the church and pastor were threatened in anyway, as Brett and Goodman Gallery were, I would have protected their right to display it. This is freedom of expression level 2.

  • rosiegracebrooks - 2012-07-11 09:19

    Religion doesn't cure alcoholism or drug addiction either.

      NatashaDawnQuinn - 2012-07-11 13:07

      EXACTLY! Just based on that the billboard should be removed!

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 15:46

      True ... but Jesus can!

      john.doeslough - 2012-07-11 16:05

      paulthebok, Jesus cannot cure alcoholism. Give me one shred of evidence when this has happened.

      ruudzlaffl.bairdimpfl - 2012-07-11 21:21

      Lucky for them that they didn't mention that Jesus can cure amputees.

      Pierre - 2012-07-11 21:26

      Religion cures nothing. The love of Jesus Christ cures everything.

  • Dawn Campbell Gibson - 2012-07-11 09:26

    Christians believe incest populated the world, but your gay marriage is an abomination!

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 15:47

      Weak!

      Riaan - 2012-07-12 19:50

      LMAO If I could give you a 1000 thumbs-up, I would. Paul like bok No retort sweet cheeks?

  • lizelle.grobbelaarvanzyl - 2012-07-11 09:46

    All this bickering about a stupid billboard! If you're gay and feel offended then don't read the damn billboard! I didn't see posts about drug abusers feeling offended that they can't smoke pot or use pcp,lsd or cigarettes all wich will kill you eventually! Grow up people moenie so liggeraak wees nie!

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-07-11 10:57

      Sure, then what next? Have a billboard criticising fat and bald people and ask fat and bald people to ignore it. Or have one for mentally deficient people and ask you to ignore it? You stupid twat!

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 11:30

      It advocates hate moron!!! Drug abuse is a choice, homosexuality is not a choice. If someone had to put up a billboard stating that all heterosexuals enjoy sex with animals, i bet you guys would make a fuss about it too...

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 12:49

      Cool thanks Lizelle, I'm going to put a billboard outside my house saying all priests are bigots and pedophiles. I'm really happy that's okay with you :-)

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 15:49

      @Vernon Good idea ... after all Gluttony is a sin.

      Riaan - 2012-07-12 19:52

      Maybe you can stop commenting on articles not applicable to you.

  • gerrit.volschenk - 2012-07-11 10:01

    It's a pity the church has decided to compromise. Homosexuality is a sin in the Christian faith,irrespective of how the human rights campaigners wants to spin it, and the church should stand by the uncompromising word of God.The Word of God surpasses any man made law.If the church teaches the word they must teach the full word without compromising.What we as Christians should do is not judge and condemn but love and help those(there is none of us without sin) who are caught up in sin.

      Muffin_man_can - 2012-07-11 10:53

      Well stated, the word of God is the book of truth, a two edged sword. It's not the book of human rights.

      elewies - 2012-07-11 11:07

      Yeah much like the Church was right to support Apartheid? And its so god awful that they now fall in line with the 'spin of human rights campaigners' and condemn it? I shall never rely upon the Church to guide me in my views of what is and what is not moral on society

      Raoul Duke - 2012-07-11 11:07

      Could not agree more!!!1 the WOrd of God is uncompromising! And MUST be adhered to strictly! God does not care about humans rights, only in His Word! All you homosexuals are going to Hell. And all you who eat pork, get divorced, have ever told a lie, have ever wanted another guy's girl (or guy). Everyone who has ever worked on a Sunday.... Straight to HELL!!! For the Lord's Word is the LAW!

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 11:31

      You can stick your delusional faith up your straight ass!

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 11:33

      Your bible also states that 144,000 gay men will be the only one's lucky enough to be granted entrance to heaven... if heaven existed, id feel sorry for you and all the dirty women (bible says so...)

      Muffin_man_can - 2012-07-11 11:40

      Wesley give me the scripture in the bible that states that? There is no such!

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 12:48

      @muffin Rev 14:4 "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

      Cherri - 2012-07-11 14:01

      Wes, that verse says they were virgins, it doesn't say they were gay.....just saying

      Pulverturm - 2012-07-11 15:23

      Cherri.Pye, your goodbook is so filled ambiguity it's hard to tell what they mean sometimes. So now only male virgins are going to Heaven? If the rest of you are going to hell then why even bother, might as well give up now?

      paulthebok - 2012-07-11 15:53

      @Raoul Duke Spot on ..UNLESS!! ...you repent and accept Jesus as your saviour.

      Pierre - 2012-07-11 21:30

      Exactly. Homosexuality is a CHOICE and a SIN, but gives no one the right to judge. The only way to approach this is with the everlasting and uncompromising love of Jesus Christ.

      JManAtheoi - 2012-07-12 10:03

      @ Pierre: "Homosexuality is a CHOICE and a SIN" How deluded and big a bigot can you be? "The only way to approach this is with the everlasting and uncompromising love of Jesus Christ." - give me a break please.

      Riaan - 2012-07-12 19:55

      pierre Too bad stupidity is not a choice.

  • john.doeslough - 2012-07-11 10:12

    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion" - Steven Weinberg

  • emmanuel.vuma - 2012-07-11 10:20

    It is very interesting this thing. We battle homosexuality with religion. Is there a religion called HOMOSEXUALITY?

  • emmanuel.vuma - 2012-07-11 10:25

    It's interesting that we battle Homosexuality with Religion. Is there a Religion called HOMOSEXUALITY?

  • Dawn Campbell Gibson - 2012-07-11 10:32

    amazing how there is always an excuse for christian behaviour. god - loves you unconditionally, with just a few exceptions!!!

  • Dawn Campbell Gibson - 2012-07-11 10:42

    John, I Love your post! This is so true. Doing evil in the name of god!!!!!!

  • Dawn Campbell Gibson - 2012-07-11 10:59

    abstinence makes the church grow fondlers!!! BUT speak out against gay people!

  • Ro.anne.Honeyborne - 2012-07-11 11:22

    Really? For those of you who haven't seen the board yet you can view it on lifeissavage.com - On a personal note. I bat for the other team, and I don't find the board offensive at all. All I see is a picture of a guy (A rather good looking one at that) who seems to be battling with a lot of internal struggles. Whether it be that he's an alcoholic, drug or porn addict. We all have issues with certain areas of our lives and we have to deal with them the best possible way we can. This whole thing has been taken out of proportion. What a lot of you are forgetting is not how it feels to be judged, but how it feels to be rejected, and right now all I see are a lot of people rejecting the beliefs and opinions of another. We don't mind when someone judges us in a good way yet we get defensive when they don't believe in the same as we do. Yet at the same time, wouldn't you say that you're then judging their beliefs/opinions in return? I have very close friends and family that don't approve of my sexuality, but I know they still love me and accept me for exactly who I am. I in turn don't always believe in what they stand for, but love and accept them through the same. We're all in the same boat here. We're all just trying to figure out our own lives and purposes. Why not just try and get along and not throw a hissy fit when someone says or does something you don't like?

  • phae.rayden - 2012-07-11 11:29

    Funny how non believers are mostly the ones fighting for tolerance and acceptance of the gay community, whilst the Xtians shout judgements and lack of understanding in the name of their religion which we are told over and over is based on love and no judgement. Do you even understand your own sales pitch?

  • arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 12:19

    Sipho it is obvious you have no gay friends, and it's obvious you failed biology. Go and google about the prostate for starters. Secondly, there is not one documented evidence on earth that someone can become gay because of "peer pressure". I don't think you even understand the term. By the way I'm straight and have a girlfriend - yet I have gay friends and not succumbed to this so called "peer pressure" you're talking about... idiot.

  • NatashaDawnQuinn - 2012-07-11 12:22

    It was never their intention to discriminate? Has he lost his mind! Obviously it would offend and most definitely does discriminate, it sends the wrong damn message. There is NO cure for homosexuality because we were born this way you moron! the only reason why being gay is ""ä challenge of every day life"is because churches like yours put up ridiculous billboards like that and think you can get away with it! I personally don't like my sexuality slapped on a billboard with references of drug abuse and alcoholism! This is the 21st century, you just can't get away with stuff like this, we have rights now, we have a voice and we sure as hell won't stand for this. what about homosexuals who are christians and are looking for a church to worship their God, ps. it's the same God as you, must they see stuff like this and feel scared to go into a place of worship? There is no end to stupidity.

      kobus.hattingh.5 - 2012-07-11 12:39

      And there is no end to those that dont belief. Nowhere in the Bible does it says that this is no longer an abomination to God. In fact, the Bible is clear than not do only those whom practise is will go to hell, but also those whom approve thereof. And to say that one cannot turn away from this sin is nonsense as 1 Cor 6 clearly states that so some of you WERE. Past tense. Whether you turned straigh or celibate. Its your PAST life and you turn your back on it. To continue is just to follow after your own lust and a god that you create in your own mind. Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-11 12:49

      Shove that murderous fairytale book up your straight ass

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 13:04

      Kobus - your bible is also okay with enslaving women (with a penchant for virgins of course), sacrificing animals on an altar (funny, sounds just like satanism to me) and murdering innocent women and children (like the Egyptians). Here is ONE example of over 1000: Exodus: After God has sufficiently hardened the Pharaoh's heart, he kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. When he was finished "there was not a house where there was not one dead." Finally, he runs out of little babies to kill, so he slaughters the firstborn cattle, too. 12:29 To commemorate the divine massacre of the Egyptian children, Moses instructs the Israelites to "sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix" -- all the males, that is. God has no use for dead, burnt female bodies. 13:2, 12, 15

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 13:12

      Oh let's not forget incest is one of Gods favourites: "Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father." Genesis 19:30-38 Might explain your low IQ hey Kobus?

      NatashaDawnQuinn - 2012-07-11 13:15

      Why does the Bible tell parents in Deuteronomy 21:18-21 to kill their disobedient children with stones? "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death." So tell me, do you see people running around stoning disobedient children? But yet people select which parts of the bible they deem should be followed and being gay is wrong is one of them but you don't stone children/ bible says do it, so why don't people?

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 13:35

      Why so quiet Kobus? Those two brain cells of yours struggling to come up with something coherent to refute my claims?

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 14:11

      Aaah... thumbs down from the Religiots and not one intelligent refute.

  • arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 12:38

    Bleat little sheep, bleat all you want. Your religion is dying, along with your jealous, hateful, god of vengeance. I hope all of you bigots have gay kids, if anything, a lesson your pathetic gods should want you to learn.

  • louis4T2 - 2012-07-11 13:04

    Leave it up - let the church advertise their pitiful, small-minded ignorance!

  • cpduplessis - 2012-07-11 13:41

    John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. This is the basis of the Christian faith. If you believe that Jesus came to earth in the flesh and took your sins(stealing, bribery, fear, homosexuality, addiction, promiscuity, porn, racism, hatred, etc...) upon himself the day He was hung on a tree in Jerusalem about 1982 years ago, and rose up 3 days later victorious of death and the prince of this world, you will have freedom from aforementioned sin when you follow His instructions (i.e. The Bible). The fact is, we are are BORN sinners, even if you have not decided to become gay, or to steal, or to watch porn, or to smoke... Someone who smokes (and I still battle with this addiction, the Lord will give me strength to overcome this) is in fact in the same boat as any gay individual. So I would like to pose a challenge to everyone who commented on this article: "...he who is without sin, cast the first stone..."(John8:7) Fact is, Jesus (and God, John 14:20) loves every single human being on this earth, and if we confess our sins(as per list above, 1 John 1:9) AND (this is crucial) repent of them (Acts 3:19), we will be saved. In conclusion, the billboard spoke the uncensored truth as reflected in God's Word, no person can dispute that, but the fact is: we are all sinners and need to repent of our own sin and not point out all the sins of others (Luke 6:41)

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 13:56

      God also said you should stone your children if they misbehave. He also said if you rape a woman, you must give the father 50 silver coins and marry her. You speak of a god of love? I speak of a god of violence & cruelty: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

      cpduplessis - 2012-07-11 14:11

      Again, I would like to direct you to John 8, it was law that someone, the woman in the scripture, be stoned for adultery. And Jesus said he (referring to the angry mob that brought her) that is without sin cast the first stone. And further he said that He does not condemn her either, but with the requirement that she doesn't do it again. I think the context you are quoting that part of scripture on is a bit narrow. But go ahead and read John in the New Testament section of the Bible. I think you might find some answers to your questions there. Jesus loves you and died for your sins too Hugh.

      merven.halo - 2012-07-11 14:36

      So basically Jesus didn't agree with his Father (isn't the entire bible infallible?), which make you wonder about the Jesus/God relationship...

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 14:40

      Cool - so I can pick and choose which parts of the Bible suit my life style? Like the part where Johlene should shut up and obey me because I'm a man? Are you listening Johlene?!

      cpduplessis - 2012-07-11 15:09

      @Merven Matthew 5... or you should probably know that part of the bible as an atheist (merven.halo - July 11, 2012 at 14:34 The most atheists know the bible inside out, that is why we are atheists. We don't do spot reading to fit our agendas) @Hugh That is the exact definition of taking something out of context... For someone who is so well read and educated, I would have thought you would understand this concept...

      merven.halo - 2012-07-11 15:18

      Dont' come with that read the bible in context crap. There are many cases where Jesus didn't agreed with the OT. Which means or Jesus was wrong or the OT is wrong.

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 15:32

      Well Christians seem to take everthing out of context themselves - isn't that why there are so many denominations - because none of you can agree on the same Bible?

      cpduplessis - 2012-07-11 15:52

      @Hugh that is an interesting point of discussion... I my own opinion, people try to justify their actions, and then "interpret" God's word to justify themselves. and I think that is why this denominationalism came about... I am no scholar, this is just of the top of my head... But what I do believe is that the Bible is the truth, it is the people that give it a bad name by using it to condemn people and bible bash them into submission....(wow didn't think you would see this from a christian)... I also think (my own opinion) that people want to be right and when someone differs with them on such a personal issue as religion, they will use it to justify themselves (and possibly condemn the other person)... Instead of hearing the other person out and walking a journey with them...I think if the church (as an institution) didn't try to be right, all Christians may have been sitting next to the same camp fire...

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 16:17

      Cp - thanks - no I'm not shocked, I have plenty of religious friends (in fact my girlfriend is Catholic, hows that for a shocker!). I agree completely with you - that many people interpret the Bible in different ways and often to suit themselves, but then I must ask - what is the correct interpretation? Yours? Someone elses? It's not like God itself is coming down in a blinding light to explain it to anyone. Are we then to take the Bible literally? If that is the case I would be terrified! To take it further - if we can agree on the various interpretations, what of the fact that God didn't write the Bible - men did. If mankind is inherently fallible, sinful and deceitful would it not be fair to say that the Bible is not to be trusted?

      cpduplessis - 2012-07-11 16:32

      @Hugh From a physical point of view that would be true, but I think this is where the ultimate convergence comes. I believe the writing of the Bible is God inspired, i.e. God gave the words to the person. This is where the belief vs evidence thing comes in. You see, I accepted Jesus as my saviour a long time ago, and He has freed me from many debilitating sins in my life, inter alia porn addiction and drug addiction. I believe He saved me from those things, because if it was up to me, I would probably still be doing these things and probably be dead or seriously depressed. And this might sound REALLY crazy, but when I worship (every morning early and particularly on a Sunday) I feel the Holy Spirit around me. This is why I keep believing, because God keeps revealing Himself to me on a very personal level... Regarding the interpretations argument, I would also run away if we had to take everything literally written in the bible... But again my belief is that the interpretation of the Word must be dependent on the guidance of the Holy Spirit. My attempt at interpreting the word would always be wrong. Again, man has taken this task to himself and a lot of hurt and condemnation sprung from this... I think it is safe to say at this point we should probably agree to disagree.. because I think the fundamental principle of belief is the thing that will separate our viewpoints...

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 16:42

      Cp - thanks for at least being honest with me and not simply taking offense, I appreciate it. I'm glad religion worked for you, and was the catalyst you needed to get out of drug addiction etc. I have to commend you for getting over the addiction, I have one or two who have been clean for about 14 years now (but through normal rehab, not via religion). There are few Christians I meet who can tolerate debate with me, so I commend you for that, and say it was an honour to chat with you, regardless of our differences.

      andrew.holdsworth.39 - 2012-07-12 05:41

      @cpduplessi. Amen

      cpduplessis - 2012-07-12 14:23

      @Dave Hey dave you know what, that is your choice, and I will respect your choice, but this is a public forum and I am fully entitled to express my views here. I would like to ask though, why is it you call me a fool? What exactly is foolish about what I'm saying?

      brandon.thomas.77770194 - 2012-07-12 15:34

      I was so enjoying hugh and cpduplessis debate and the came Dave.

  • johlene.vanoordt - 2012-07-11 14:32

    Hugh if you are an athiest, or of any faith other than christian, because you quote the christian Bible texts, you know way more Bible than I do. Ha so funny... thanks for making my day.

      merven.halo - 2012-07-11 14:34

      The most atheists know the bible inside out, that is why we are atheists. We don't do spot reading to fit our agendas.

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 14:39

      Haha! Yes it is funny you're happy being a slave in the 20th century. Do you think I became Atheist just because I felt like it? No - because I studied the Bible closely. I also sat and read the Kuran with a Muslim friend. I also spent months with Buddhists and Hari Krishnas. I also spoke to many priests (from various denominations) including some Jewish friends. It's called doing your homework - not just blindly having an opinion on something.

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 14:43

      Funny how they deleted all my references to the Bible where men are superior to women. Can't take the heat?

      Boos - 2012-07-11 14:44

      @Hugh: ...and yet you still have no manners... did you learn nothing ?

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 14:51

      Since when do I need "manners" to refute the bible by QUOTING DIRECTLY from it? That is called censorship and has nothing to do with having manners. Considering some of your comments on other articles I suggest to take a huge dose of your own advice, plankton.

  • Pulverturm - 2012-07-11 14:53

    I'm so glad I'm going to hell, it would be terrible if I had to spend eternity in heaven with a bunch of bigoted C*nts!

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 14:55

      I concur!

      www.hephzibah.wapsite.me - 2012-07-11 16:58

      You'll cry to get out once you get there.You have no clue what you's are talking about.

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 17:19

      Hahaha hell is sharing the same planet as someone like you hephzibah.

      Pulverturm - 2012-07-11 17:21

      I'm crying now! Believe me it can't get worse than this!

      www.hephzibah.wapsite.me - 2012-07-11 17:26

      Believe me it can and will unless you repent ! You are very ignorant i must say ! I think it's time you grow up. You reason like a small child.

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 17:38

      A small child like you who believes in a fairytale? Really? I think you need a shrink lady.

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 17:39

      By the way, using your webaddress to spam your religious lies is totally uncool.

      dave.prinsloo - 2012-07-12 07:22

      beelzebub.wapsite hahaha. Glad to see you believe like a child, but you's is the one who also thinks and talks like one

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-12 15:09

      hephzibah, you have heard as much about hell as any of us, so by default you know nothing either, me well im going to valhalla when i die a violent death:)good times

      Pulverturm - 2012-07-12 16:32

      Ooooh, I'm shaking in my boots!

  • johlene.vanoordt - 2012-07-11 15:22

    Good on you Hugh, good on you. But no, I DONT want to be anything like you.

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 15:26

      No problem - unlike religion, I'm not forcing you.

  • martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-11 16:02

    Deric Linley, is a servant of a god that condones rape, Deuteronomy 22:28-29New International Version (NIV) 28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 16:22

      Watch out, it could be deleted - nobody wants to see the ugly side of the Bible...

      Clayton Richard Delport - 2012-07-11 17:42

      Jackass it's supposed to be a punishment to marry her!!! Because you don't agree with his comment don't view your opinions of god into the message, this is still a public forum and not it's not nice reading comments like these, and yes there is alot of Christians who don't agree with the churches, just as you don't agree with the government , We have no control over politics!

      trotseafrikaner.rsa - 2012-07-12 10:20

      You are misleading the poeple on the Forum and they are blindly believing you. All you athiest do have bibles so go and read that section for yourself. It basicly sais that the person who rapes a woman must be killed. He is mixing the 2 versus to show misleading information.

      trotseafrikaner.rsa - 2012-07-12 10:25

      Martin Britchford5. You are reading half of vers 28 and half of vers 29 and combining them. Shame on you!!!! And High Influence just blindly believes you because he wants to.. You atheist just exposed yourself as false people

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-12 14:59

      22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. 23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you. 25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her. 28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. 30 A man is not to marry his father’s wife; he must not dishonor his father’s bed.[d] and this is better how?

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-12 15:02

      trotse afrikaaner, please find the missing half of 28 and 29. im not fighting, im interested, because no matter the source, the above is all i find, the king james version just says it less violently.

      trotseafrikaner.rsa - 2012-07-12 15:29

      Hi Martin Thats better. In my bible it does not say rape in verse 28.See how different it looks if you dont take it out of context. Says. as hy haar gryp en gemeenskap het in verse 28. I dont have that english bible only my afrikaans one. See what happens to the rapest in verse 25. Makes no sense that the word rape is used in verse 28. That bible must have a typo. Thanks for that Thats why it looked to me like you took out some lines, but why did you only show the line you wanted to instead of the whole picture. Anyway. Good on you for showing all the versus.

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-13 13:43

      trotse afrikaaner , the new international version of the bible was my source, the king james version says something like" take hold of her, and lay down with her" and says humbled instead of violated, i have no problem with peaceful religion, but we all know how the early world was converted, and if this is how they are translating it for modern times i see violence in regard to other beliefs sprouting all over again, thats my fear, i cannot raise a child in this religion based on the churches actions fron 2000 yrs ago and even presently, calling for people to be put to death, children being raped by priests, popes and the like, my problem is with the church and its leaders pushing their understanding of the bible, its almost always, anti something, anti black, anti gay, anti whatever, the problem lies within the leaders, the same way it is in governments, i was raised christian, so its not like im coming from some holier than thou place, they do not practice what the "10 commandment following parts of the bible" state, have you seen the popes crooked cross staff he carries with the imaciated jesus? and the inverted cross symbolism within the vatican, if your god is truely all seeing and all loving, then by you scrutinising the church and its leaders should bring you no harm. your god sees all right? so with good intentions to set the record straight for yourself, step back and see the dirt alot of us have woken up to,

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-13 14:14

      my beliefs are based within gods and godesses that were known long before jesus was in the picture, protectors of mankind. its how your and my ancestors lived before the christian church came about, i know that based on my actions, heart and mind that regardless of whom i worship, that god i was raised with, that i will be deemed just fine to that entity. i dont just throw money at charity, i buy chow, and beer and il go sit in the bush with a homeless bloke and share it, i dont know christian folks that are that open to things, its always "i give tithe" "and give to charity" they never want to see the actual problem, a house does not make a man, nor do clothes, a mans actions make the man. im heathen, i do not subscribe to the ten commandments, but that said, does not mean i will rape, or that i will murder, or cheat on my mrs, or screw the neighbours wife, im bound by honour and my own conscience, i can kill if necessary to defend honour or my life or that of another, but i will never rape, nor cheat,i will put my life down for good folks, i do it sometimes when i see muggings i sort it out, i catch barbel for the ballies living next to the klein jukskei....thats the character i am,

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-13 14:16

      now when i say take a really good look at the state and character of the church from 2000yrs ago til now, do it, because the church is not very christian, they behave opposite to your ten commandments to which rape, peadophilia, hate mongering, starting wars, forced conversions ad infinitum should have been added many many years ago, 2000 years on humanity should be adding honourable text to the bible, not just going on what a goat herder wrote 2000 years back, its 2012, how much more knowledge, how many new rights and wrongs have we declared, add them..i will take hell for eternity over the god i grew up knowing.

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-13 15:04

      "but why did you only show the line you wanted to instead of the whole picture" i used those verses because they were the ones i needed to make my point whereby there is this loophole for rape, here is the king james version, King James Version (KJV) 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. the word rape is no misprint, thats how it has been worded in the new international version... the words " and lay hold on her, and lie with her" seem exactly as the international version say, just in a less disgusting manner, but essentially its what i get from that verse. i always wondered why as a child my prayers went un answered, and other kids always gave thanks to god for their prayers , i believe now it had to do with their parents money

  • vernon.wolf - 2012-07-11 16:08

    weed out these morons with the rule of law, if they refuse to evolve on their own, lets force them to! bloody sheep!

      trotseafrikaner.rsa - 2012-07-11 18:22

      Evolutionist and atheist are the sheep blindy following one another... following one another a bit to close these days it seems.

  • trotseafrikaner.rsa - 2012-07-11 16:20

    Well,, mostly drugs do lead to homosexuality....

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 16:29

      Please provide the proof. Qualified proof by the way, not some reformed drug addict who suddenly found Jesus.

      trotseafrikaner.rsa - 2012-07-11 18:19

      Well if seen it in my student days. Student get heavy into drugs and the next thing you know his doing something very sick with another man. Not saying its always the case, im not for homosexuality im against it. I will not judge you if you are but im telling you its wrong.. So you can stop with your anti Jesus propaganda.... I love Jesus Christ!!!! ....

      phoenix.px.5 - 2012-07-12 15:50

      Well afrikaer stop taking drugs then!

      Riaan - 2012-07-12 20:05

      Darn. I attended the wrong university!

  • trotseafrikaner.rsa - 2012-07-11 16:21

    there is a homosexual community...omg

  • jacqueline.engelbrecht.54 - 2012-07-11 16:40

    I blame all the straight people having gay babies. It's a conspiracy! Get off your bigoted soap boxes already.

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-11 16:47

      Hahaha! Classic

      Tommo - 2012-07-12 00:05

      My ma and pa were one of them ;))

  • dave.prinsloo - 2012-07-11 19:30

    Well,, mostly inbreeding do lead to trotseafrikaner mentality

  • heileno - 2012-07-11 19:35

    I am so tired of this... Christians, grow up... you are pushing people away from Jesus. Gays... get over yourself. There are bigger problems in this country.

      dave.prinsloo - 2012-07-11 19:38

      heileno, get over yourself as well. Go watch your isidingo, that's the important stuff you're referring to

      Tommo - 2012-07-12 00:03

      I'm gay and I'm not a problem thank you very much...

      phoenix.px.5 - 2012-07-12 15:51

      Really??? Being killed for being gay is quite up there I think. Or being raped for that metter. Not?

  • dave.prinsloo - 2012-07-11 19:43

    christianism is an abomination in the eyes of god, that much is clear