News24

Archbishop takes on Zuma

2011-12-21 17:19

Cape Town - Cape Town Archbishop Thabo Cecil Makgoba disagreed on Wednesday with President Jacob Zuma's comments in support of corporal punishment.

"Consequences of corporal punishment are grave in any language, creed and colour. On this, I respectfully disagree with the President," the archbishop said in a statement.

Makgoba was reacting to comments made by Zuma on Tuesday, at the launch of a road safety and crime awareness campaign at KwaMaphumulo in KwaZulu-Natal. He said South Africans should return to the "old way of doing things" because modernity had been harmful to society.

The Timeslive website quoted Zuma saying that, "we have passed laws that prohibit you as a parent [from using] corporal punishment. Today, when, as a parent, you bring your child [to] order by using corporal punishment, you are breaking the law, but the person who passed that law cannot raise your child the way you want to."

Zuma said while he did not blame such legislation, "I can't be diplomatic about this. It's a fact."

Zuma was also quoted as saying that "as Africans, long before the arrival of religion and [the] gospel, we had our own ways of doing things".

Dark days

"Those were times that the religious people refer to as dark days, but we know that, during those times, there were no orphans or old age homes. Christianity has brought along these things."

Zuma's office has since issued a statement that sought to clarify his comments.

Makgoba said while he did not know the full context in which the comments were made: "We all have a tendency, as we move on in years, to romanticise the past as utopian and without its challenges.

"Given the number of orphans and old age homes, lack of proper sanitation, poor education provision, death on our roads at this critical period for Christians, we need as Christ commanded, to house these orphans as we did of old.

"We need to care for our elderly better as it was done of old."

Makgoba wished the President, his Cabinet and "all God's servants serving God's people in politics", a Christmas season in which they experienced "His love and compassion".

AfriForum

Meanwhile, AfriForum, said it planned to discuss Zuma's comments with the government and African National Congress.

AfriForum deputy head Ernst Roets called on Zuma to apologise for his "extremely insensitive" references to Christianity.

"His words demonstrate that he neither has sufficient knowledge of South African history, nor an understanding of his compatriots," said Roets in a statement.

"To make such sweeping statements in a haphazard way, is irresponsible and may offend and hurt people deeply. The president's negative comments in this regard are a disgrace," he added.

SACC

The SA Council of Churches was shocked by Zuma's remarks.

"We are just taken aback. We are shocked and we don't understand," SACC general secretary Reverend Mautji Pataki said.

"We do not understand why the President, whom we have always counted as one amongst us Christians, would find the Christian faith to be so hopeless with regard to building humanity."

Co-founder of the International Orphan Network website, Sean Grant, said the past was less important than the country's present situation.

"While there may have not been these institutions in the past, certainly we see that the current culture in South Africa is abandonment and negligence. If it weren't for religious groups and non-profit organisations, there would be far more lack of care, if not dying," he said.

Presidency

In a statement on Wednesday, the presidency said Zuma had meant to say that South Africans should not neglect African culture.

"While we should embrace Western culture and Christianity, we should not neglect the African ways of doing things," presidency spokesperson Mac Maharaj said.

While Zuma welcomed "the advent of Western culture, some useful traditional ways of doing things and aspects of African culture were undermined or even eroded".

"The President indicated, among other things, that Western culture had brought about the end of the extended family as an institution, leading to the need for government to establish old age homes, orphanages and other mechanisms to support the poor and vulnerable.

"He added that even poverty was an unknown factor as neighbours were always ready to assist each other, giving one another milk or cattle where needed."

Comments
  • mholthuysen - 2011-12-21 17:23

    Everyone who is educated would disagree - these populist chants only work for the ANC sheep that follow the ruling party blindly into the abyss.

      Hugh - 2011-12-21 17:59

      Not sure which bit you support but I say limited corpral punishment should be allowed. The socalled populist chant you degrade is slowly gaining ground in the UK and USA as it the full impact of a warp system introduced by the socalled educated have resulted in children not respecting others and misbehaving beyond reason. Fear and respect have been mistaken as being seperate instances when they in fact go hand in hand. Criminals do not respect the police because there is no fear that they will be caught. When caught for the most henious of crimes they do not fear Jail as they look upon incarceration as a badge of honour. remove or lessen the fear component and it is human nature to push the limits.

      Liz - 2011-12-21 18:02

      But everyone who is REALLY educated or bothers to check out the history of ill health and poverty knows that Zuma is correct at some levels - the migrant labout system - a corner stone of apartheid destroyed traditional family life which was quite protective of those in need. Even now although there are problems - it is the extnded African family and even neighbourhoods and communities that are helping take care of AIDS orphans and destitute older people. This is part of traditional culture and should be supported. Too bad that so many armchair critics cocooned in their suburban homes are so removed from some of the more positive things that happen in the name of "culture."

      craigtjames - 2011-12-21 18:34

      I see they have closed comments to Zuma's statement that Christianity should not have open orphanages etc. To that and this article I can only say in this time of celebration of Christ's coming, Father, forgive them as they do not know what they are saying. I suppose it is also our fault that Africa has highrise buildings, nice homes in Sandton, expensive cars from Germany, jet planes and the more. Society evolving, that is what happened in Africa, as in the rest of the world. They cannot take parts out which they like. And yes, I do agree with corporal punishment - but the abolishment of that was not something done by Christians now, was it. Ask any Christian parent, and many of them would agree it is something needed - and please before the extreme left jumps up and down, we are not talking about abuse here - as with adults, let the punishment fit the crime(or in a child's case, the level of naughtiness)

      rudolph.kitching - 2011-12-21 18:37

      Yes Mike, it shows in his ways, 20 Children and many wifes. Mal-enema is even better off, in the old ways of the AFRICAN, he would be wearing a purple g-string.

      Phuti - 2011-12-21 21:27

      The thing about education in S.A is you have to forget about your culture but look at countries like Germany;France;China & India to name the few English is not their languahe but check a country like ours poor as it is;the educated run away from being an African wht is this.Crazy as it might sound christianity is the root of all evil.Show me any white person who aspire to be a black person buy I know a many black who u many blacks who r whites.wht a pathetic situations.

      John - 2011-12-21 21:52

      to the tune of Mfana Zu'zuma, Jesus loves you, Zu'zuma, Your mother loves you, Zu'zuma, Your father loves, Repent, Mampara, repent, Repent, Ignorant, repent, Repent, Negligent, repent, Repent, Liar, repent, Repent, Thief, repent, Repent, Baby Killer, repent, Repent, Genocider, repent! Okai, stop the bus, how can you say all that? Lets have a look: Zuma is Ignorant that the Failed Communist Countries like the USSR, China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc, employed Central Control Economies ( CCE ), with full and total nationalization. Negligent - as the head of an organization, it is his duty to be fully informed of the economic history of total disasters of CCE. He does not know that Gorbachov announced reforms away from nationalization – in the early 1980’s! He is a Liar, because these are not his ideas, these ideas have been around for over 100 years. Thief, he has stolen the PEOPLES money – that is how bribery and corruption works. Baby Killer, as a member of the ANC – Abortion Murder Genocide, is guilty of the Genocide of 800 000 black babies in government hospitals! Genocider, as a member of the ANC – Abortion Murder Genocide, is guilty of the Genocide of 5 Million Aids sufferers which were refused medication. Repent, Manpara, Repent!

  • Jan - 2011-12-21 17:29

    The Nats also used and abused Christianity for political gain, Zuma is only more crude in his abuse of Christianity for political gain. In our country, this is nothing new. I wonder what he would do if Christians follow the Muslim example when offended?

      George - 2011-12-21 17:46

      Will he be having all the christian holidays or will he be working for free

      Phuti - 2011-12-21 21:37

      Christianity is not good for black people cos it makes them slaves.how can u forget who u r.ag blacks who claim to educated & not know ur culture u r morons & pathetic supid.

      AyGeeWils - 2011-12-22 08:11

      A point to be made - Christianity and all organised religion, if the Bible is to be believed - is the Great Whore of Revelations - and lets face it all man-made and manipulated religion has caused millenia of missery and it still does. This is not the teachings of Jesus - this is deception and - if Revelations is to be believed - The Great Whore will be exposed and brought down. Whatever his method and totally bungling it was - I don't believe he was aiming at the honest believer - notwithstading that ancestral worship ect. (Amasigo) is just as deceptive and manipulating as we have seen by his threatening use of it.

  • Ben - 2011-12-21 17:30

    Thank you for some sanity.

  • hcduplessis - 2011-12-21 17:31

    I don't understand,i thought we are already doing things the way they did it in the past,we murder each other,we rape each other and we steal from each other,that is the way things were done in the past because there was no law,well just like today. DON'T UNDERSTAND.

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-21 22:17

      Christianity as a scapegoat for the failing of government, hcduplessis. Prophesied in the Bible, just like Atheists, Apostates, etc.

  • Gerhard - 2011-12-21 17:32

    Is this the wisdom of a herdboy? 150 years ago people had a lifespan of 40 years. What has christianity got to do with that? Is it not the white man's science to which Africa contributed nothing that prolongs life and care for everybody?

      Liz - 2011-12-21 18:09

      White man's science? The Chinese and the Indians and many of the ancient cultures including Africans contributed enormously to our current scientific knowledge. Why are we so hung up on race?

      Marc - 2011-12-22 11:52

      Liz, we are not talking about muti and herbs, cat-scans, x-rays, dialysis, pacemakers etc are european science. look it up poppy"

      Liz - 2011-12-22 14:07

      @Marc ... oh I did not realise you were limiting yourself to modern medical inventions... I thought science was broader than that and included aspects of engineering, physics and mathematics. If it were not for Indian mathematicians we would probably still be trying to work things out with roman numerals. I am not discrediting the advances of the "europeans" but acknowledging that other race groups also made important contributions.

  • Atholl - 2011-12-21 17:36

    "As Africans, long before the arrival of religion ......" ... Well to start .... Religion has been 'around' for more than 3,000 years! ... at least 2,300 of those years {in Africa !!} .... So ... we are now going back 4,000 yrs?? .... .......---------....... Do we have a President who swears an oath to the Constitution .... but then -- defiantly --- infringes on his restriction to Freedom of speech which prohibits speech that provokes hatred to a particular Religion. ??? .... More lives have been lost in provoking Religion hatred, than for any other reason. ........ Why not go all the way ... attack all religion - Hinduism, Jew-ism, Islam-ism, Catholicism - why only Christianity ? ..... Does this un-wise Pres know that Nigeria has been divided and weakened by religious conflict ? ... or is this the plot?

      champ.bopape - 2011-12-21 22:28

      I couldn't agree more. The president is treading on a very thin ice in deed!! This is against our constitution, it is very reckless and dangerous. We are to unite each other and not divide ourselves based on our religious differences. Alas! This is pure religious intolerance. Shame on the president.

      maseratifittipaldi - 2011-12-21 23:08

      Atholl: He only attacks Christianity because he knows the ANC can only rule till Jesus comes again. He wants to make sure Jesus stays away a bit longer, so they can finish with their stealing.

  • George - 2011-12-21 17:49

    Do we get Tutu to air some thoughts on this

      Blip - 2011-12-21 21:46

      Tutu will have a thousand words off-the-cuff on every subject on earth which he knows diddly-squat about --global warming, the banking crisis, school truancy, rogue taxis, methamphetamine addiction, whatever. But when the topic turns to religion and the ANC, topics he's an expert on, the Archbishop is struck dumb.

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-21 22:21

      Please no. He does not speak for Christians. He is a man of the world not a man of God.

      Piet - 2011-12-22 10:29

      Unfortunately Tutu also lost his way and enticed the stealing of money of white people by black people. I hope he can regain himself and speak from the Holy Bible again.

  • Sheik - 2011-12-21 18:05

    Get the liar to tell the truth.

      Sheik - 2011-12-21 18:07

      Do that and we'll have a new Goverment.

  • Gideon Smalberger - 2011-12-21 18:14

    no law wil tel me that i cannot give my child a good spanking when he deserves it point.....

      Poaul Zwarts - 2011-12-21 18:46

      So you assault your child because of YOUR lack in parenting skills? Nice...

      Gideon Smalberger - 2011-12-21 19:33

      No I punish them in the way that the Bible says i must.With love and dissipline the same way my father punnished me,no time out no grounding just a good old hiding as and when they deserve it. Big difference between asault and spanking,but then you would not know.

      Poaul Zwarts - 2011-12-21 21:14

      Yeah, you're right. I have a bit of a problem distinguishing assault from beating children. Its so true what the late, great, Christopher Hitchens said, that religion makes otherwise good people do the most horrible things.

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-21 22:30

      @Poaul, I have a problem with unruly, undisciplined children. How do you deal with them? On a recent trip to Swaziland, a Swiss family was dining in the restaurant of the hotel. Their 3 kids under the age of 10 were running wild around the restuarant. One of the waitresses tripped over one and split 4 dinners over the floor. The Parents did nothing. One kid ran past our table, I stuck my foot out and tripped him. The parents came at me abusing. I said how is that different from the same kid tripping up the waitress. The differnce was the restaurant was out-of-pocket because of the kid. The kid learned not to run and come near me. The Bible says "discipline" the child and they will learn. It does not say abuse the child.

      poaul - 2011-12-21 22:53

      @ozzy My kids are well behaved. They are spoken to sternly and occasionally timed-out. More importantly, punishment is applied consistently. No need to get physically abusive. There are more ways to control your children than violence. Being against corporal punishment in no way implies having poor discipline or a lack of control as most of posts suggests. That is what I meant with "parenting skills" in my first response to the post.

      Thandiwe - 2011-12-22 05:57

      I'm so with you on this Poaul and am shocked to see how many people see corporal punishment as a form of discipline, due to an obvious lack of parenting skills. T hey are probably also the ones that scream and shout about the violence in this country and hey lets give the kids a few guns for christmas....

  • Tony - 2011-12-21 18:25

    Guess I'm educated, but I agree with Zuma!

      Antony Last - 2011-12-21 19:31

      Zuma makes sense. It takes a big oke to stand against common belief. Viva uMnu Zuma!

      AyGeeWils - 2011-12-22 08:28

      Anthony - I take your point and its true - Christianity, if the truth be told, has a blood curdling history - but Zuma is also at the same time saying that ancestral worship and african belief systems are to be adhered to - this is preaching the frying pan instead of the fire. (no pun intended)

      Piet - 2011-12-22 10:31

      Off couse atheists will agree with Zuma. HANDS OFF MY CHRIST!!!

  • Arthur - 2011-12-21 18:29

    When Zuma opens his mouth it is to change feet. What is the expression I once heard... this man is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot.

  • ktheron2 - 2011-12-21 18:34

    Whatever Zuma said, or whatever he "meant" to say, does not really matter anymore. SA is already a collective fool in the eyes of the civilized world. Not that Zuma, Malema or the ANC really cares.

  • Michael Savage - 2011-12-21 18:54

    Way to go herdboy!!! Zuma's comments once again reinforce the argument for having minimum standards/qualifications for anyone that wants to serve in the highest office. While everyone, including Zuma, has the right to express an opinion, giving such low-brow opinions a national/international platform is really embarrassing.

  • Clive - 2011-12-21 19:00

    The president has finally lost it. The ANC should not wait until Dec 2012, but they should do what they did to Mbeki...... recall Zuma now

  • jao.oosthuizen - 2011-12-21 19:15

    Many might misunderstood the President, I see his point. Corporal would work if done correctly.

      Michael Savage - 2011-12-21 19:26

      I don't have a problem with the corporal punishment; I'm in favor in fact. It's just the presidents lack of understanding when it comes to cause and effect. You can blame Christianity for a lot of things, but orphans and old age homes? Really??? Seriously???

  • Wayne - 2011-12-21 19:29

    Well , Mr Zuma , I am a FF+ supporter , but fully support your comments relating to corporal punishment. Corporal punishment is at least a start to re-instilling discipline within our society , which is solely missing , from all race groups.

      Henri James Christie - 2011-12-22 08:47

      Yep, look at the results without discipline---- a malema!!!

  • Joseph - 2011-12-21 20:02

    No need to appologies,christians must accept critisim,not all of us are christians.Christians should not take other people for granted when they express their views on christianity.

      Lordwick - 2011-12-21 20:26

      You are correct Joe.My kids does know very well that if they go out of the way,i would definately give'm a smack big time....as for those with rights go on and spoil your kids!!!

  • ReunionofIntelligentMinds - 2011-12-21 20:16

    Didn't NEWS 24 have a Xmas wishlist some time ago? My wish is that zuma could go back in time still herding cattle and that a HUGE BIG bull accidently trampled zuma on his big toe.

  • Cathy - 2011-12-21 21:03

    Its is all because the ANC told their people to go out and multiply. They did not think of the consequences, they only thought of the the overwhelming majority of votes that they could get. Now they do not know how to solve the crisis.

  • gmanyamalali - 2011-12-21 21:04

    i never agreed with mr zuma but here he got my heart,copral punishment will add something back to have respect thanks mr zuma

  • lerumo.mkhonto - 2011-12-21 21:12

    Zuma is 100% correct. Capitalism came with rationalisation whereby the ends justify the means. In African culture there would'nt be a street-kid as there were no orphans. Punitive action is used in all the systems of the world and corporal punishment has been one form we used here to correct wrongs. Will there be no prisons when Christianity finally dominates the world through the last crusade. In honesty, christianity is the biggest fraud. It teaches people to be subservient in the hope that they will live better in heaven. Pray for me to die now and go to hell, it will never happen. Ha ha ha.

      Phillie - 2011-12-21 21:26

      It is not Christianity that is at fault here but it is people who subvert the teachings of Christ into new age doctrine. There is a very thin line between Christianity and new age humanism The Bible is full of examples (even by Christ and God) of corporal punishment

      Robert - 2011-12-21 22:05

      Your forebears also impaled wrongdoers - you want to bring that back as well?

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-21 22:49

      @lerumo, so you are saying Christianity is linke to Capitalism, and if neither came to Africa, then there would be no kids on the street. Maybe so, because there would be no streets. Look at India, the have a minority Christian population (in fact Christian get persecuted in a lot of areas. Yet, the have thousands of children begging. Same goes for Vietnam where Christianity is virtually non-existent. And China. Explain that.

      MaxOdin.SA - 2011-12-21 23:04

      My friend you are so misguided, Christianity may be a moral guiding light but it is no substitution for the law. in fact christianity states that we must obey the laws of the land except where it will contradict our faith. So incerceration for crimes we christians support because it's law. Corporal punishment was not abolished by christians it was abolished because it constituted abuse. I.E. child abuse etc. Also capitalism was fine for 17 years and now that the government is exposed for it's abuse they resort to capitalism this and that. Robert mugabe supports the african agenda as do the anc which is anti-capitalist and anti so called imperialist yet he stands with his hand out in the queue for foreign aid and moans when they pose sanctions against him. Street children are a result of poverty and a failed education system as well as the lack of drive to do better. A result also of alcohol abuse and many other form of abuses. Lest we forget the muti killings and child rapes and murders occurring daily in our communities. It seems some of us are just searching for someone to blame. We can't blame our own culture because we will be seen for the failures we are so let's just blame imperialism and the west.

      Robsschele - 2011-12-22 10:58

      In the African culture there were no streetkids because there was no streets. Every child had to go out and be a herdboy. That's the only reason the famiy looked after the orphans. They were cheap labour. Then also compare the life expectancy today against that of an african 400 years ago before christianity came to Africa. A man of fifty was an old man, a woman of forty was finished. Many of them met an untimely death because of an accidental fall or knock against the head. If everyone treats another human in a decent and respectful way you would not need all these laws. The big problem is that most people want to live by their own laws. Have some respect for life. A living being only get one life on earth and if that is wasted, it's gone forever.

      lerumo.mkhonto - 2011-12-22 18:06

      I am saying that what Zuma said I agree with. I do not believe in any religion, I believe in humankind which created christianity and the sciences-that it is within human capacity to right the wrongs of the world. I do not accept the myth that Africa contributed anything tangible to the advances that we see today because of evolutionary and historical reasons (Charles Darwin as understood). I am saying, there are certain human traits that should not be discarded just because they are "African". Some are still relevant for our unique conditions in South Africa. Zuma was reffering to such as I understood him without any prejudice and judgement. Impale? Witches were burnt at the stake in Europe, does it mean Europeans are inherently bad people? I do not believe so.

  • Cathy - 2011-12-21 21:15

    Because of the massive increase of black population, the ANC came in as the majority. If the african culture did not rely on the western medicine the population would be at a minimum by now what with Aids, TB, famines and various other deseases. The ANC must now pray the price for the votes and look after their people that voted for them. They must not be allowed to back down now!!!

      stevie0064 - 2011-12-22 11:30

      Agreed, except the ANC will never pay any "price" for their abuse of democracy. How are these Aids sufferers going to be treated? The NHI. How can SA possibly afford the NHI? The taxpayer. The ruling party will never be held accountable for anything because this is a liberal democracy as ruled by terrorists. This is exactly what "The People" wanted in '94 and this is exactly what they have received.

  • Fanie - 2011-12-21 21:16

    Seems like JZ and P de V share the same bed. Other people must always have to explain what they were supposed to have said when they open their mouths

  • rooikat - 2011-12-21 21:20

    And you lead church Archbishop???? Shame on you. The bible clearly states in Prov 23 vs 13 & 14 that we are not to withhold discipline from a child and that if you strike him with a rod he will not die and that you will save his soul from hell. You sir do not speak for me as a christian.Please read the word of God before making statements on behalf of Christians.

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-21 22:13

      Actually Proverbs 13:24 is more explicit "The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline." Tutu is a man of the world, not a man of God

  • Blip - 2011-12-21 21:39

    Strange that the old motormouth rent-a-quote Desmond Tutu is deathly quiet on this controversy? After all, for once it's on a topic he's presumably a real authority on.

  • Anette - 2011-12-21 21:46

    When is a bus going to drive over these twits?

  • Harold - 2011-12-21 21:56

    I wish to thank all the ANC voters for the President they have given us. It wont be long now before the ANC starts to Publish a little book of wise saying of The great president Zuma.

  • champ.bopape - 2011-12-21 22:30

    This is against our constitution, it is very reckless and dangerous. We are to unite each other and not divide ourselves based on our religious differences. Alas! This is pure religious intolerance. Shame on the president.

  • Phill - 2011-12-21 22:32

    Mr Zuma, orphanages are caused by people like you who go out telling people that AIDS can be washed away in the shower so they continue practising unsafe sex and die and leave orphans.

  • braamc - 2011-12-22 04:23

    Those were times that the religious people refer to as dark days, but we know that, during those times, there were no orphans or old age homes. Christianity has brought along these things." Zuma, blame you and this filthy thieving corrupt government of yours, if you steal and waste less of taxpayers money the entire social environment will look better, ANC cadres and others live like kings where your people are dying from hunger. So shut the f*&6ck up with your f**&^cken rubbish comments, you are just embarrassing yourself again

  • Barefoot - 2011-12-22 08:20

    Funny how people equate Christianity with Science. Christianity in history has been seen as stifling scientific development. another thing science knows no colour no race why? just a few examples who created numbers as we know them today? the real first mechanized printing? worked out laws of gravity? telephone? light bulb? the father of medicine? mathematics? people from a multitude of nations

  • Gwen - 2011-12-22 08:32

    Hush... Everytime I hear those words in private talks, people Hush immediately. Did you hear them too? Rumors say that just the rich people know all about it. Just do a G00GLE search for "BlueGoldHunt" all one word and click the first site that comes up.

  • Law - 2011-12-22 08:56

    Doesn't anyone realize that Jacob (Banana) Zuma has been preaching about corporal punishment before he was elected. He got a lot of votes, because of this factor. But has any aspect of corporal punishment of new taken place. Zuma is a people pleaser! It's time we all wake up, and start thinking for ourselves.Whatever Zuma says, think the exact opposite because that is what will happen. Welcome to RSA Banana Republic, where anything goes.

  • candice.matthysechristians - 2011-12-22 08:57

    I stronlgy disagree with our presidents statement because it's religious groups thats looking after old people, and young abandoned children, and these groups are mostly supported by private individuals and companies, and not even government funding. Religion, no matter what it is, will be here long after he leaves this earth, and has been around for thousands of years. People should not attach personal views to religion, as it's universal, and a very touching topic. He should become a witness instead of trying to be a leader which he's clearly not.

  • Johnathan - 2011-12-22 10:00

    Man ... why do they let the Mr president say anything without a formal written speech? Don't take this too seriously, the Mr president cannot string two (2) english sentences together. The lack of any real education is widely known about the Mr president and that could be, not saying it is, why the Mr president would like to live in the past and not allow people to embrace modernization. Modernization and education which I am sure would highlight a need for an educated Mr president and not a Mr president that causes division amongst the nation he Mr president is supposed to be leading. Personally, please could the Mr president not use the english language to give ad-hoc speeches in and rather use his Mr presidents native language, the one he Mr president is trying to protect so strongly as per the actual speech meaning press release released about the speech given. Not sure why a press release is required after a speech? Any translation errors can really be blamed on the media and not require further media releases stating what the Mr president is trying to say when he Mr president clearly said it in english. I can live in ignorance not having to be lambasted with these insanities as truly I can claim lack of understanding and live in blissful ignorance not understanding he ramblings of a mad Mr president man. My conclusion is Let the people paid to write the english speeches write the Mr presidents speeches and don't let him improvise an ad-hoc speech ... its costly.

  • roets.nico - 2011-12-22 10:13

    What I found ironic is that the very laws Zuma complained abiut were passed by the ANC...

  • Piet - 2011-12-22 10:25

    What a sad day. The rising African Anti Christ, ANC Anti Nativity Christ creating even more division. And that just before Chrismas. What an honour to be a fool for Christ and not a friend of political blasphemy.

  • Teri - 2011-12-22 10:31

    Zuma is right. The Church is an organisation which says if you not christians ur a devil!

  • bplupiya - 2011-12-22 10:37

    i agree with some of zuma's comments.like the establishment of christianity in africa was politically motivated. but if zuma could read his bible very well he will understand that the bible is against sex before merriage and its also against divorce and these are the main factors why we have so many orphans.

  • damon.leff - 2011-12-22 11:46

    I notice, with sadness, the almost eager willingness of the SA media to give Christians a platform to respond to statements made by Zuma against Christianity. Sad, because Witches are not offered the same courtesy by the media when Witchcraft or Witches in general are denigrated. This demonstrates that the South African print and online media is biased in favour of the Christian citizen. A South African citizen (religious affiliation 'Witch')

  • Renier - 2011-12-22 13:12

    Most Politicians need a divided society. Once the society embraces each other they will start to vote with their heads and not their hearts.

  • George Bennie - 2011-12-22 17:55

    Furthermore, long before the common cold had even come to Africa (despite it's already low life expectancy), Europe was plagued with a thousand year period of disease and pestulence - the real dark ages - and how did it survive that? Religious implementation. While religion was covert slavery, its followers survived - because the rules are practical and were especially for the times. Besides the plague, war, typhoid and syphilis caused more orphans that people affected with HIV today. Does the bible not preach peace, not eating unclean meat or monogamy? The problem isn't religion...it's human!

  • Andries - 2011-12-22 19:41

    Do not be hard on our president - he is not an educated man. Listen to what Mac Maharaj said what Zuma in fact wanted to say.

  • chris.grobbelaar1 - 2012-04-20 08:58

    Maybe we should pass a law against lying and making stupid comments and hiding the truth(which is obstruction of justice). Starting at the top and work our way down the ranks to eradicate corruption, theft from the people and injustice. The people should rule and the government should be their voice only. To put it lightly. Pooh comes from the top, not from below. Unless there are some strange quantum physics at work.

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