News24

Chappies toll case dismissed

2012-06-06 11:27

Cape Town - An application to interdict construction of the R54m Chapman's Peak building in Cape Town was dismissed in the Western Cape High Court on Wednesday.

Judge Bennie Griesel said no order had been made as to costs.

The Hout Bay Residents' Association and the Habitat Council had argued that provincial Premier Helen Zille and transport MEC Robin Carlisle did not receive proper environmental authorisation to build the plaza, as required by the Protected Areas Act.

Both maintained that authorisation was granted under previous environmental legislation.

The respondents in the matter are Entilini, of which Murray & Roberts is a senior partner, SANParks, Zille, Carlisle and Water and Environmental Affairs Minister Edna Molewa.

Comments
  • Paul - 2012-06-06 11:36

    WTF Legal Jargen!!!

      philani.goba - 2012-06-06 11:47

      @Whitey - and how is this related to the arcticle??

      Ruan - 2012-06-06 11:52

      @Whitey, really? what does your story have to do with this story?

      richard.hipkin - 2012-06-06 11:52

      Another cut and paste jockey..

      Chris - 2012-06-06 11:52

      @Whitey, sounds like you're getting a team ready for the special olympics.

      Felix - 2012-06-06 11:55

      Man this troll OW is painfully stupid. I would select him for my golf team because his handicap is HUGE!

      Chez - 2012-06-06 12:02

      @Whitey. Uhh, What?

      Pieter - 2012-06-06 12:04

      @OvaprivilegedWhitey - So what are you saying? That Athlete A is a black athlete and Athlete B is a white athlete? The white athlete has to run 20 laps and the black athlete 15 because of affirmative action.

      Loo - 2012-06-06 12:06

      @Ovaprivilegedwhitey ,, You need to get OFF the drugs dude. *** Damn Durex seem to have produced a real bad batch at one time ** My condolences to your family.

      Matthew - 2012-06-06 12:38

      Attention All: PLease Ignore "OvaprivilegedWhitey" he is a known News24 Troll. And as far as his comment goes...pathetic really,because he copies and pastes it on any article he reads,just to stir up racial fighting.And sadly,people for it and respond to him everytime... News24 Admins: really wish you guys would delete/ban the Trolls that encourage racial division like that.but if you did that (your job) you wouldnt have so much publicity,would you? Mark my words,letting this kind of comenting go on unchecked will one day make the news itself,obviously from another paper.you've been warned/cautioned.

      gert.nell - 2012-06-06 12:51

      whitey......moron!!

      angle.g.man - 2012-06-06 22:06

      Who is Legal Jargen? They say he fights for rationality. They say his enemies are the hoard that follows Illogic: the evil leader who uses the pejorative emotion to control the minds of the stupid. Legal Jargen is part man, part myth but his works are known. In these times of corrupt activates only Legal Jargen can protect the people. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him....maybe you can hire Legal Jargen.

  • rdeacon - 2012-06-06 11:39

    Dear Cape Town, We have some never used still in packaging e-tags for sale at discount prices.. Much Love Gauteng

      Jan - 2012-06-06 11:53

      Ha ha ha!

      Chez - 2012-06-06 12:02

      Hee hee, love it!

      Loo - 2012-06-06 12:07

      LOL too by the Loo

      Alan - 2012-06-06 14:51

      LOL. Not only "never used" but "never WILL be used in Gauteng"

  • Kate - 2012-06-06 11:40

    A sad day, whoever thinks the DA does not receive large "donations" from Murry & Roberts is a fool. A 55 million rand building is required on a mountain? They have been working out of temporary offices since the toll was constructed without any issue. To everyone who thinks only the ANC is corrupt, think again. Something stinks about this whole deal.

      Keith - 2012-06-06 11:47

      Got any proof to Substantiate this? Didn't think so. DA always play open cards if you feel that strongly lay a complaint and get them investigate.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-06-06 11:53

      A full court case found nothing to what you allude to...

      Hakuna - 2012-06-06 11:53

      The public protector should rather look at this deal, and see if Helen passes the test re her promise to resign if her government is found to be corrupt. I smell a rat!

      djmain1 - 2012-06-06 11:55

      @PointBlank - the court case had nothing to do with what Kate is talking about. Sheeesh!

      Kate - 2012-06-06 12:01

      The ANC has put into place a system whereby the public does not need to be informed about what donations business give to political parties. Therefore I cannot request this information as it is not privy to the public. This is purely in place so that deals like this can happen. If we could see all these "donations" from business, the ANC as well as the DA (I believe) would be under much heavier scrutiny. If you think politics is not dirty and the DA are squeaky clean and only the ANC are "bribable", well then you need to take your head out of the sand.

      lydonmcg - 2012-06-06 12:10

      Oh use your head Kate. It's easy for you to sit all cosy and tell the employees to continue to work out of temporary offices, but you're not the one being expected to operate efficiently out of metal shipping containers. Not only are the containers far uglier and less environmentally sensitive than the new toll plaza will be, but what people like you seem unable to grasp for some reason is that - pay attention - if the toll plaza isn't built, the new renegotiated contract will become null and void and we will be forced to operate under the conditions of the ANC-negotiated contract. That will result in TWO toll plazas being constructed, taxpayers being liable for penalties when projected traffic volumes aren't met, and more. Instead of thanking the DA for renegotiating the contract to better suit everyone involved, you continue to drag them under the bus. Where were your objections when the ANC negotiated the original contract? Take your bogus conspiracy theories elsewhere please.

      jeffrey.jones.357 - 2012-06-06 12:12

      @Kate, All political parties receive money from commercial businesses. We know that none of them reveal who they receive it from. However, just because a business donates money to a political party doesn't necessarily constitute a bribe. If there were no such donations, it means there would be no political parties, as their membership fees and allocations from government would not cover their costs. You could ask the Public Prosecutor to look for bribery. Remember, too, that the vast majority of money made by Entilini took place under the ANC in the W. Cape, when they were guaranteed that tolls would be payed by the provincial government as they knew that the amount of traffic going over Chappies would never be able to make them a profit. Nice work if you can get it.

      Loo - 2012-06-06 12:23

      Ok Kate you woke up and decided... "Today is the day I'm going air my completely unsubstantiated comment on the forum, A conclusion I got to during last night's braai" ... I personally have no issue with that .. As long as you feel better now. Oh and glad we could help, and nurse that hangover please, its spilling over.

      djmain1 - 2012-06-06 12:27

      @Loo - just like you spew your inane comments here everyday. Do you get drunk every night?

      Kate - 2012-06-06 12:31

      Lyndon, you are welcome to go thank the DA for spending 55 million rand on a building about to be constructed on a world heritage site. They could have pushed to have the entire toll plaza contract revoked and said "The mountain belongs to the people" or "We believe the WC fuel levy tax more than covers any road works we may need in future." I'm sure that would have garnered a few more votes than this approach. The toll plaza is a money making scheme, we should pay to drive on a road built by prisoners of war? What is our fuel levy tax going to? The upkeep of what exactly? That is OUR mountain, the people of South Africa's, and just like the Gauteng citizens should not have to pay to drive on their roads - neither should we! Go stand and thank them for spending 55 million rand, I'm sure you and the contractors involved will be the only ones.

      Loo - 2012-06-06 12:32

      @djmain .. youre my ex GF right ?? .. I thought I recognized you.. Please rem to return my toaster.

      Loo - 2012-06-06 12:35

      @djmain .. Oh wait .. my bad .. its not you AI .. You should not whinge like my ex, you confused me. Keep the toaster

      david.baker.sa - 2012-06-06 12:35

      @Kate - Are you muddling up your disappointment with the result with the DA compliance question. The current setup is a mess. It looks awful and the gate system is poor. It's an international spot Most of the people I have spoken to that are against any building are grumpy that a toll road even exists. This means they are hijacking the building debate to work against something else that is a done deal. There is a toll road. Period. As for the corruption allegation - Do you have anything to substantiate this?

      djmain1 - 2012-06-06 12:41

      Geez Loo, you're more drunk thn I thought!

      Kate - 2012-06-06 12:44

      David, as you know I cannot substantiate information the public is not privy to, only allude to it. My point is the DA could have fought just as hard to have the toll plaza revoked. It would have been a very clever move to garner votes throughout the entire nation, especially when the ANC is building tolls. The way this country is going, soon we will be tolled to look up at the sky, or tolled to go swimming in the ocean.

      Matthew - 2012-06-06 12:45

      Yes there are some naieve enough to think the DA is all good and no Bad. As much as would like to belive that,i dont. But in the comparison to the ANC:Choose between two evils.Naturally,we choose to support the lesser evil.DA. Because they have the flaws like any party does,but they come no where close to bullsh*t the ANC catches on.

      Matthew - 2012-06-06 12:50

      Yes there are some naieve enough to think the DA is all good and no Bad. As much as would like to belive that,i dont. But in the comparison to the ANC:Choose between two evils.Naturally,we choose to support the lesser evil.DA. Because they have the flaws like any party does,but they come no where close to bullsh*t the ANC catches on.

      Loo - 2012-06-06 12:50

      @kate .. Of course the toll gate is "a money making scheme" .. erm ... *whispers* "That is what toll gates are there for, not to regulate traffic" Oh and the biggest issue with Gauteng toll is not the idea itself, it's about "how much" and the viability of paying 2/3 of revenue in administration costs to an overseas company, in its current form.

      Kate - 2012-06-06 12:53

      Loo - Perhaps you are not informed, but the government would like you to believe the toll is there for the maintenance and upkeep of Chappies and not to make money. The same reason we pay a fuel levy in the WC.

      Loo - 2012-06-06 13:05

      @kate . .AI my girl . .We ALL pay a fuel levy .. :)

      placebo.effect - 2012-06-06 13:22

      The fuel levy goes straight into the National Fiscus... It does not go solely for the use of road matters in the area where it is collected.. Contrary to what many people believe. That is why there is a fervor of the E-tolling. Fuel subsidies subsidize the ENTIRE COUNTRY. Which is wrong in principle but what can you do when a shortfall must be mad up from corruption and road users are the obvious cash cows.. DA still doing good work as per usual. 1 toll is better than 2, this was probably done because they receive insufficient funds (Probably due to ANC incompetence) to mantain Chapman's peak and they were probably thus forced to find other means of finding the money to keep a world heritage site in acceptable condition. Obviously angry ANC sheeple will be skeptical but that's fine they can be, I mean the ANC is a laughing stock everyday in the news to the point of embarrassment. That is why the opposition will work ever harder to perpetuate this fact through their good governance. GO look at the Audit reports for each province, look for yourself instead of just reading the news...

      Kate - 2012-06-06 13:29

      Why then does the WC have it's own fuel levy, independently priced from other provinces (generally higher)? Why does this independently priced levy not cover the costs of any roadworks done on Chapman's Peak?

      johanttblom - 2012-06-06 14:32

      Oh FFS hout bay people are crazy ..... Chappies is a tourist attraction not a important arterial route thus those who use it must pay for it! Its one of( i believe the most) the most expensive roads in the country to maintain so the rich complaining that everyone must pay for their hobby road is sickening to the core. The design is beautiful eco friendly and fitting for one the craziest roads in the world . Those who say shipping containers are better should take something for that dementia ;)

      markplstephens - 2012-06-06 18:54

      funny how we can call "No smoke without fire" at the ANC and everyone agrees, yet the one time the DA is questioned, the attitude is "innocent until proven guilty"

  • rowan.maulson - 2012-06-06 11:40

    Good.... These bloody NIMBY's need to be put in their place.

  • frank.dwyer1 - 2012-06-06 11:41

    This so sad, particularly as it is not about what they have done is legal, only about whether it is right and enviromentally sound. Clearly it is wrong and neither Entalini nor the DA government have any care about that or about the opinions of others. They won't even tell us why they need the building and how much the toll will contribute to the road upkeep ... .... "they paved paradise and put up a parking lot".

  • Sandra - 2012-06-06 11:46

    Good. Now the rich and famous can spend their energy on more important things like child abuse, crime, corruption

      djmain1 - 2012-06-06 11:51

      How is this an either / or?

  • anton.dwl - 2012-06-06 11:49

    I will never vote for the DA again. They are just building an office block for their mates.

      rowan.maulson - 2012-06-06 12:03

      Have you actually LOOKED at the plans, and the location or are you just spouting forth based on the misinformation that has been spread by the Hout Bay lot?

      Deon - 2012-06-06 12:09

      The previous ANC Prov. Gov. started the toles on Chappies, we should not forget that.

  • ngoako.mathekga - 2012-06-06 11:49

    What is the DA's view about this toll as compared to Gauteng etoll? I hope there no double standards. Something must be done to come up with a national fund to deal with road maintenance only country wide. Monies collected from car registrations, fines and licences must be prioritised on roads.

      david.baker.sa - 2012-06-06 12:39

      The simple answer to this is that Chappies is not an essential transport road and therefore different to the Gautend question. In Gauteng they took existing, essential roads and upgraded them and want to charge users that have no real choice With Chappies its a road that is not fiancially viable under the provincial budget. Without the tolls (started in ANC times btw) the road would not have been built and it would still be closed. Also people have a choice as to whether they want to use it

      raath - 2012-06-06 12:54

      Remember, the Gauteng e-toll would affect many more people than the Chapman's Peak toll, as it is in intercity arterial route, whereby the load on Chappies is a lot less than on Gauteng highways. You also need to remember that Chappies is very high maintenance, and requires specialised skills to make sure that it's safe for motorists - you are almost driving inside a mountain after all

      Loo - 2012-06-06 16:32

      David .. its tiresome educating the uninformed isn't it. AI I need a holiday too lol

  • djmain1 - 2012-06-06 11:49

    Yep - never trust a politician. The DA can kiss my .... goodbye.

  • Khaye - 2012-06-06 11:54

    Quite sad indeed, whenever I drive pass that construction site, I still can't see why do we really need those office blocks. Honestly, with the little offices toll booths they had, it made things work. I never saw traffic there queuing up - which may rationalize the office blocks... Hhayi, am disappointed.

  • richard.hipkin - 2012-06-06 11:54

    The ignorance surrounding this is astounding... My wish for 2012 was for people to educate themselves BEFORE commenting on issues - clearly that wish has vanished the more we get into 2012...

      djmain1 - 2012-06-06 11:57

      I think I have and STILL disagree with the development.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-06-06 12:27

      Disagreeing doesn't make it wrong - opinions are not fact.

      djmain1 - 2012-06-06 12:31

      Just as agreeing doesn't make it right - still just an opinion.

      Dave - 2012-06-06 12:43

      @Point, can you highlight the major facts to this, excuse my ignorance, I was too busy on our own Toll road here, but this doesnt sound good to me. I'm not a die hard greenie, but building there just doesnt sound kosher

  • Andile - 2012-06-06 12:08

    For once things are happening in Cape Town(WC). This week it has been these violent protests and now this. It really goes to show that you can never satisfy every person. But ja neh, those people stood no chance against National government(Mam Molewa), Provincial governement (Madam Zille), Murray and Roberts (Internation government). I bet you they will want to boycott the next elections.

      rowan.maulson - 2012-06-06 13:17

      Awesome.. I think M&R would be happy to know that they are now the international government.

  • tony.kirby1 - 2012-06-06 13:00

    Every time Ovaprivilege make a racial comment just click on REPORT COMMENT. In the end they might block him.

  • Allan - 2012-06-06 13:36

    It seems everyone is missing the point. Why do we need a giant building on the side of our mountain? Surely the offices could be built in Houtbay? A small toll plaza would be less obtrusive and not detract from the views!

  • Johan Vermaak - 2012-06-06 13:53

    Geez, if people react like this over the toll plaza, I wonder how they reacted when that massively expensive and high maintenance road was built right through the whole reserve destroying a massive amount of fynbos?

      Thandekile Pokolo - 2012-06-06 14:57

      if u vote for DA u waste your time and u forget where u come from

      arne.verhoef - 2012-06-06 19:55

      Im sorry Thandekile... For a second I nearly forgot I came from a greedy, self-entitled farce of a political ideal where the only objective is to make fat cats rich and the impoverished even more so, alleviating them ever so often with yellow t-shirts and the promise of electricity, under the guise of 'freedom'. Don't you worry, I wont forget where I come from, Ill remember to vote ANC

  • David - 2012-06-06 14:44

    This is crazy..... a sad day indeed.

  • Florence - 2012-06-06 15:10

    E-toll is becoming a cripping disease that manifests in different forms within a very short space of time. Eventually it will mushroom from all provinces and swallow us up... lol Ayeye Cape Town Ayeye

  • Tim - 2012-06-06 15:32

    Legal doesn't make it ethical. That subsequent environmental legislation would, in all likelihood, have made the project illegal demonstrates that the project (specifically the corporate offices) is a legacy of past wrongs. Entilini, Murray & Roberts and the DA, is this respect, are busy building a very embarrassing monument to past environmental insensitivity. It's going to be a hard one to live down.

      Maximus Odinidus - 2012-06-07 00:52

      And yet people drive through chapman's peak everyday. Pumping pollution into the air with their gas guzzling cars. Environmental this, environmental that. Make chappies for cyclists only and then we can talk environmental impact. But i can tell you now that 100% of the hbay residents will moan.

  • arne.verhoef - 2012-06-06 19:51

    Bravo... Snobby Houtbaai residents think they are above everyone else, claiming 'they are conserving the environment' but they only think of their property prices... Tell me... How much damage did YOUR overly flashy home do to the environment, resident?

      arne.verhoef - 2012-06-06 19:59

      And I am not saying this is without environmental impact, and not without implications, but surely, what goes for the goose, goes for the gander. The fynbos is under extreme environmental pressures... But not through toll plazas, through developers building houses. If you dont want to drive through chappies, take a drive through constantia, but dont complain about tolls being asked for creating 'convenience' for you. Dont complain when all you are trying to protect(by using the environment as excuse) is your finances

  • pws69 - 2012-06-07 06:24

    No toll roads are acceptable, anywhere, ever.

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