News24

E-toll delay will cost public more - economist

2012-04-28 11:12

Johannesburg - The delays in implementing the e-toll system will end up costing the public more, according to a report on Saturday.

The state would lose money if the SA National Roads Agency Limited does not pay its R20bn debt for building the roads, Vunani group economist Johan Rossouw told the Beeld newspaper.

"Ultimately the taxpayers will have to pay. There is no such thing as a free lunch."

Efficient Group economist Dawie Roodt told the newspaper that e-tolling had become a political issue and that investing in South Africa would become less attractive as a result.

"The perception is being created that the government cannot manage its projects and could do more damage," he said.

On Thursday, the transport department announced that e-tolling would be postponed for a month.

A ruling by the North Gauteng High Court was expected on Saturday on whether the e-tolling of Gauteng highways would go ahead next month .

An application was made this week by the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) for an urgent interdict to stop the launch of the system, so that a full court review could be carried out to decide if it should be scrapped or not.

Comments
  • joseph.vanvuuren - 2012-04-28 11:15

    It is not going to cost us a CENT, WE Did Not Ask For It.

      Piet - 2012-04-28 11:27

      Joseph. You did not ask for personal income tax, but you pay it. You did not ask for tax on alcohol, but you pay it. You did not ask for fuel levies and taxes, but you pay it. I can go on. Point is, if you dont have to ask for it to pay for it. But if you dont want to pay E-Toll, then dont use the road. Simple really.

      Nigel - 2012-04-28 11:31

      What's your address in cloud cuckoo land?

      Tony - 2012-04-28 12:30

      I really don't understand the number of thumbs' down. This is definitely a thumbs ups.

      Ina - 2012-04-28 12:45

      I see that troll with the multiple thumbsdown gimmick is at it again! Wonder how much they are paying him/her? And true as goodness it can even give multiple thumbsups as well 0 if Piet's comment is anything to go by. Can't see why he is getting so many ups.

      ccpvandam - 2012-04-28 12:59

      Piet, you are 100% correct! south african needs to realize going forward will require more from its citizens. In Europe taxes are high and most citizens contribute to the country, that is why the system works better. what is probably upsetting most people is the fraud and misuse of our taxes, now that is another issue that needs to be dealt with....

      Kobus - 2012-04-28 13:06

      Luckily the court supports the general public and not all the naysayers. Law is on our side. Suck it!

      SaintBruce - 2012-04-28 14:50

      Who paid this guy to comment in favour of SANRAL? Find the root of the scam and then tell us what the real cost will be? Find the R20 + Billions 'lost' by the ANC administration EVERY YEAR and calculate that cost to the economy! Pah!

      joseph.vanvuuren - 2012-04-28 19:54

      For PIET & Key with tumbs down what do your idiots say now after the court ruling???????????MF!!!!!!!!!!

  • joseph.vanvuuren - 2012-04-28 11:18

    It is not going to cost us a CENT, WE Did Not Ask For It....

      Stirer - 2012-04-28 14:02

      Joseph, whether you like it or not, it is going to cost the taxpayers R20 billion - whether the tolls go into operation or not. It's just a matter of how the government (or SANRAL) is going to source the money. Also, whether the to-be tolled roads have already been paid for or not, they still have to be maintained on a regular basis. Motorists and taxpayers are going to have to fork out for that, for ever. Again, it's just a matter of how they (government or SANRAL) is going to source the costs. My objection is the way they are going about it - the costs of recouping the toll fees are disproportionate to the amount of money to be used on maintenance. There are other cleaner and less costly ways of doing this. Like it or not, those costs have to be covered somehow.

      Adam - 2012-04-28 16:35

      They can auction off the gantries, and sell the lights to some disco, but please turn them off, electricity demand is high, due to our collapsing grid. BTW anc sorry you lost.

      Keith - 2012-04-29 05:43

      Why not ask the Gov't Pension Fund trustees to write off the loan they gave Sanral, that'll reduce the debt to little more that a Minister's salary. I'm all right, I don't work for Government!

  • CapeTownRob - 2012-04-28 11:21

    Johan is correct that there is no free lunch, but if the delay results in the government choosing to use the more efficient method of fuel levies to pay for road construction (not just in Gauteng but in other parts of the country as well), then it will actually save the public money.

      bernpm - 2012-04-28 12:58

      Mr Gordhan has endorsed/guaranteed a loan of 15 billion from the state pension fund to this project!! Civil servants might find out when retired.

      valcooperRSA - 2012-04-28 14:03

      Exactly where does the money go that we pay for car licences....every which way you look we are taxed...where does that money go.....and ag shame I am sure that gov employees didnt give permission for their funds to be tampered with. It doesn't matter that we all do pay our way we dont get free lunches...look at TV licences...and the crap that gets served up....its a case of line the wallets first then lets see where we can give the leftovers..... Every form of tax in this country is supposedly to uplift something but its not getting done...only thing that is benefiting is the gravy train it just gets longer

      Stirer - 2012-04-28 14:14

      Bloodbane, CapeTownRob is absolutely right, and if you can't see that, then you are the idiot you make him out to be. Firstly, national roads throughout the world are sponsored by some form of tolls or taxation. Their maintenance is expensive and is not just a small side-issue on governmental budgets. Secondly, the debt that has been incurred, still has to be paid regardless of who screwed up or who has pocketed the backhanders. Its not going to go away by itself. We, the taxpayers, are going to have to fund it one way or another - its just a matter of how.

  • AnthonyZA - 2012-04-28 11:24

    Hmmm, wonder of you added up all the money lost to bad spending, birthdays, useless events, corruption etc, would it be enough to have paid for new roads? Why must the taxpayers pay more when so much of what we have paid has been squandered? Sell all the mansions and fancy cars, drop some salaries that are just too high and lose some useless politicians and you can pay for it that way. Don't kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs, get rid of some fat cats.

  • Sechaba - 2012-04-28 11:24

    Shame, they are bribing even the economists to say something good. SABC Jornalists are also not allow to oppose or say something bad about etolls, now its the economists frightening us.lol @ ANC Government, Dictorial tendencies at its best.

      Gregory - 2012-04-28 11:32

      Its is no longer the SABC , Its the ANCBC. F**k them and their underhanded tactics.

      Juicecard - 2012-04-28 11:38

      this economist sucks!

  • Natasha - 2012-04-28 11:24

    Its not the tax payers fault if sanral loose that money, they shouldn't of have made that debt in the first place.

      Johnnie - 2012-04-28 11:59

      You are 1000% right. The big thing is that certain high-ups had started counting the money in their pockets already, some were bribed before- hand to get the thing going - that is why the going-on was kept hush-hush.

      Stirer - 2012-04-28 14:16

      Natasha, you are absolutely right, but that debt now belongs to the taxpayers and road users, and has to be repaid.

      Lacrimose - 2012-04-28 16:54

      Maybe now we will also get to see the 'secret' report as to why the costs went from R14 billion to 17 billion to R20 billion

  • Gregory - 2012-04-28 11:25

    Sanral can go get f***ed. Looked for the busiest road they could find lay down a bit of tar and think it gives them the right to stick their hand into our pockets. How gullible do they think we are.

  • Bless Boswell - 2012-04-28 11:26

    The public did not incur this debt. Government did.

      Keith - 2012-04-29 05:53

      That's woolly thinking. You may not like the ANC Government, you may not have voted for the ANC, but, like it or not, you cannot avoid the consequences of the ANC's actions. We are all in the same boat and we sink or swim together. If our rating goes down the whole country will find capital expensive to raise, Our economy WILL suffer. BUT, consider this. I'm from the Orange Free State and I never use that road, But I'll have to pay for part of it & you chaps from the Transvaal will be paying less because the rest of the country is subsidising you.

  • Charl Van Der Merwe - 2012-04-28 11:27

    Why not make e-tolling cheeper?

      cliff.slabbert - 2012-04-28 11:39

      It was free, how can you make it cheaper than that???

      Pieter - 2012-04-28 11:40

      Because then they won't make so much moonneeeyyy

      Olebogeng - 2012-04-28 11:43

      We are not prepare to pay even cent,Charl.

      pearson.botha - 2012-04-28 11:52

      This is a van der merwe joke. We DO NOT want cheeper (sic) e-tolling. We don't want e-tolling at all. We don't want e-tolling ever. If some corrupt bunch of criminals want to toll the roads they must put up toll booths and collect coins. Not a debit order to you bank account. Do not be a sheep. Do not obey the thieves and criminals of SANRAL. Disobey them. We must resist this with all out might. Electronic tolling is the work of the DEVIL (a van der merwe will understand it better if you refer to the bible and Revelations)

  • Olebogeng - 2012-04-28 11:28

    What system will cost us more? We don't want free lunch,we don't want e-toll tag,SIMPLE AS THAT.

  • Bruce - 2012-04-28 11:30

    "The perception is being created that the government cannot manage its projects" I'm afraid its not a perception, its the inconvenient truth, this saga is simply unpacking for the world to see.

  • brianmacza - 2012-04-28 11:35

    The iisue is... SANRAL effectively loaned the money from the government... this is a funny money transaction and we are getting shafted for it.

      Keith - 2012-04-29 05:59

      Brian, the Government does not have any money, it is OUR money which we GIVE the Government, trusting it to spend it in OUR interests. Bring the ANC government down through the ballot box if you do not trust them to spend the money wisely. And that is wishful thinking on my part.

      Keith - 2012-04-29 06:34

      Further comment. Quoting from an Advocate in court "Delaying the toll will cost Sanral R200 million per month." PEANUTS! And here we are thinking that any delay will cost Billions.

  • mikuyu - 2012-04-28 11:37

    No E-tags, No E-tolls. We have been paying for bad roads for along time. its time for them to fix using fuel levy!

  • Pieter - 2012-04-28 11:38

    These people really know how to play with words..don't they? His words were... "The delays in implementing the e-toll system will end up costing the public more, according to a report on Saturday." Note, there is no mention of cancelling the e-toll (which will save the country a hell of a lot of money). No, only the delays are mentioned and accepting that the tolls will go ahead and well, in that case, I will have to agree. Delays will cost money.

  • tshepo.ally - 2012-04-28 11:39

    the sad reality is that the government is goint to recover the money from us, one way or another. however, they would have taught us a lesson. come 2014, we will vote better. if we make a mistake, we only have ourselves to blame 'cos it is evident we have voted for the wrong people and they constantly remind us of that. let it be a lesson to us. a hard one to swallow, really. the government and it's institutions have got us by the balls!!

      pearson.botha - 2012-04-28 11:56

      SANRAL is not the Government. SANRAL is a profit making organisation. SANRAL promises hundreds of billions of YOUR money to foreign shareholders, FOREVER and EVER. Long after the paltry little road has been paid for. Do not give them a cent! Do not obey, do not yield. CRUSH them!

      tshepo.ally - 2012-04-28 12:22

      what i am saying is that we are gonna pay for whatever losses the incur, directly or indirectly. and the government is gonna make sure of it. they have contractual obligations which they have to fulfil and i believe there are entities within the government who will benefit from all this. we can only do so much. we have been soft on the government, period.

      Keith - 2012-04-29 06:05

      Tshepo, yes, they have us by the balls, but the y must leave our Bells alone. By the way, people, don't say to anyone in Government,"Give that man a Bells." You'll have to say "Give that man a Johnnie Walker Blue," because they don't drink cheap whisky, that's for the rabble, the hoi polloi.

  • Andrew - 2012-04-28 11:40

    Let the ANC tell uys who is benefitting from this contract?? Noticeably no comment. Why high ranking cadres have their grubby little fingers in the cooky jar. Nobody has told us as to who benefits from thsi sytem. Take your bets but somewhere a;ong the line will either be the ANC or high ranking cadres!!!!

  • pearson.botha - 2012-04-28 11:47

    People please. The e-toll is NOT for road building. The E-toll is to make people wealthy. Foreign people. 80% of the e-toll is going to flow OUT of SA. Do Not believe the press. Do not get involved. Let SANRAL issue summonses to 800 000 people. Do not be sheep. Let civil disobedience work. Let the people's voices be heard.

  • Kantoro Sten Mlauzi - 2012-04-28 11:49

    e-tolling se foot,,this is a robbery they knew they were going to make a killing about this, thats why we were never told n explained to about this,,I SAY NO TO E-TOLLING HOPE EVERYBODY ELSE FOLLOW

  • Henri - 2012-04-28 11:49

    We already PAY more than enough! If goverment spend our tax money wisely there will be enough for everything that needs to be done. Let us all stand together as tax paying citizens for once!

      Keith - 2012-04-29 06:09

      Hear, hear.

  • Canibus - 2012-04-28 11:55

    Dats even worse 4 as i don't stay in GP n don't own a vehicle.

  • meredith.r.pollock - 2012-04-28 11:59

    We already pay out our asses for crap so what's the damn difference, i still will NOT register & if i happen to travel on the toll road i will simply remove my damn number plate.. Screw them!!!

  • doris.pfeifer - 2012-04-28 12:02

    What do they do with the levy they receive from the fuel which is supposed to pay to fix the roads?????

  • Ted - 2012-04-28 12:04

    With the anger I feel, don't be surprised one day to read a headline on News 24 which says 'Armed Militia Takes control of Joburg'. LMFAO.

  • James - 2012-04-28 12:06

    Don't believe these glorified fortune tellers.check on Mr Jack Blooms comment .he says we will actually save money by cancelling the E- toll system now.\r\nMr bloom please enlighten these government agent

  • James - 2012-04-28 12:07

    Don't believe these glorified fortune tellers.check on Mr Jack Blooms comment .he says we will actually save money by cancelling the E- toll system now.\r\nMr bloom please enlighten these government agent

  • thapsta - 2012-04-28 12:10

    if you made a deal with the devil there's only 2ways of getting outta it. either u pay up or pray to Jesus to set you free. so sanral must start engaging in prayer and fasting cos they aint getting the money from us

  • wernerm5 - 2012-04-28 12:13

    Well, by the douche bag Johan Rossouw's logic... If we have to pay for SANRAL's debt (stolen R20bn), then SANRAL should pay for our debt. It goes both ways. 1. SANRAL's e-toll system was paid out of SA Pension fund 2. VUNANI boasts that they manage R14bn of pension funds. 3. VUNANI douche bag Johan Rossouw demanding the tax payers pay for it. 4. Seems to me VUNANI has a lot of explaining to do. Dear Johan Rossouw... Why are we paying for your free lunch?

  • Guy - 2012-04-28 12:20

    Correct. The government CANNOT manage its projects. It's too busy paving it's own golden highway for retirement

      Keith - 2012-04-29 06:30

      Retirement paid out of the Government Employees Pension Fund?

  • Mike Purchase - 2012-04-28 12:26

    What is 20bln to the government,they must sell some of their houses and cars to absorb the cost,us tax payers are becoming gatvol,very gatvol.

  • Harley - 2012-04-28 12:40

    'investing in SA would become less atractive', Oh realy? just that or could it have more to do with the 70% loss of direct foreign investment, the unproductive and expensive labour force, the restrictive labour laws or even the industrial scale corruption by an incompetent government?? Just asking..

  • Tony - 2012-04-28 12:41

    The decision makers of SANRAL must be fired and all monies lost by Government should be recovered from them as the scheme had fradulent tendencies. When you fail to consult the nation on such a large scale investment you create the perception that you don't care and that your actions are based on personal greed as exercised by the shareholders who invested in your scheme. Please publish the names of all shareholders who have invested in this scheme to fleece the South African public.

  • Bruce - 2012-04-28 12:42

    It's not a perception Mr Roodt. It is a fact!

  • Nick - 2012-04-28 12:45

    "The perception is being created that the government cannot manage its projects and could do more damage," he said. Perhaps in this case, the perception is the reality.

  • Bernie - 2012-04-28 13:14

    Watch them up the price of fuel, so that all will have to pay for this blunder. (By law shouldn’t there be an alternate route to use when it comes to toll gates?)

      Keith - 2012-04-29 06:16

      Alternative, no matter what Mr Gates tells you.

  • Gerald Jordaan - 2012-04-28 13:49

    Perception is reality!! The ANC Govt. is incapable of managing it's projects!! and they are CORRUPT to boot!!

  • dave.prinsloo - 2012-04-28 14:17

    duh, johan, vaakseun. Obviously there's no free lunch. But paying R500 for lunch or R3000 if you didn't reserve the table can only be afforded by capitalist pigs like you. Skaam jou snob!

  • mike.clery - 2012-04-28 14:51

    "The perception is being created that the government cannot manage its projects". In this case it's not a perception Mr Roodt, it's a fact. The sooner they're made to understand that, they sooner something will get done to remedy it.

  • Justin - 2012-04-28 15:06

    If the corrupt government officials stop stealing tax payers money, there would be plenty of money to fix the roads etc. Also, there are so many taxis on the road why are they excluded from paying. I will tell you why, they will not stand for this bull and will burn them down. Maybe we as citizens should act the same.....

  • Elkita - 2012-04-28 15:40

    Johan Rossouw bought a E-toll and is now very unhappy.And i think the Vunani group has a finger in the pie.We will make them break down these tollgates.

  • SA - 2012-04-28 16:43

    To Vunani group economist Johan Rossouw - you must be an idiot, we already pay about 50% of south africa's total PAYE tax bill, around 35% of every lts of fuel we use in tax, VAT and all the other taxes like car tax etc, or is it that the Vunani group stands to lose as a result of todays court ruling.

  • SA - 2012-04-28 16:51

    Here is Mr Johan Rossouw email address johan@vunanisecurities.co.za, i think we should all email him in protest - WE STAY NO TO E TOLL IN GAUTENG

  • SA - 2012-04-28 17:00

    Vunani Securities’ clients include Coronation Fund Managers, Public Investment Commissioners, Investec Asset Managers, OMIGSA, RMB Asset Management, Afena Capital, Allan Gray, Sanlam Investment Management, Vunani Fund Managers, Prudential Investment Managers, MIBFA, Cadiz, PAAM, Kagiso Asset Managers, IDC, Mergence, ABSA Asset Management, Stanlib, Metropolitan Asset Managers, Eskom P Fund, Alphen Asset Management, Argon, Sygnia and Element.

      Tony - 2012-04-28 21:05

      Is this not collusion at it best - where is the Competition Board. I simply have nowhere to run; Vunani controls the entire financial sector.

      Keith - 2012-04-29 06:40

      They don't control my money, I don't have any; it has all been taken to help pay for Ministers' 4x4s, but NOT to repair the roads in the Orange Free State.

  • Elkita - 2012-04-28 17:15

    This economist is a dumb clot..How much was he paid for telling us this crap.He will never touch my budget.I'm so thankful for that.

  • anarayanasamy - 2012-04-28 18:48

    Taxpayers have already paid for the roads, we already pay a fuel levy which we thought is used to maintain road infastructure. Why should we pay to drive on a \free\way? Government with Sanral needs to find a way to better manage taxpayers money, to maintain the countries. In all honesty, Sanral is actually making our roads worse and damaging our vehicles, I can say that I've driven on roads that where perfect, only to be dug up and relaid! This is exiting Midrand-New Road offramp onto the N1 towards Sandton!

  • Griffen - 2012-04-28 19:24

    'The perception is being created that the government cannot manage its projects and could do more damage' - when does a perception become a demonstration? The arrogant incompetence that has been highlighted by this issue will hopefully energize a commitment to do better in the future. Then the investor confidence will be deserved rather than just a perception.

  • Ian - 2012-04-29 09:47

    There's no question that we're going to be paying for the system regardless of whether e-tolling goes ahead or not. The government has raised a loan and the country (i.e. you and I) has a contractual obligation to repay that loan. So basically we're dammed if we do and dammed if we don't! Our only recourse is to hold those responsible for entering into such a poorly thought through and inefficient funding mechanism accountable for their incompetence to ensure that it never happens again. Imagine for a moment that our Country was a Company, and that the Government was the Board of Directors (BoD) appointed by the Shareholders (the citizens of South Africa) to run the operational and financial affairs of the company. At the next Annual General Meeting (AGM) we the shareholders would have the right (if not the obligation) to place a vote of no confidence against the BoD and demand their resignation on the basis that they have mismanaged the affairs of the company and have failed to act in the interest of the shareholders, which is after all the primary, if not sole, purpose of the BoD. Imagine that! Wait just minute...we do have that right / obligation, its called democracy, and we do have an AGM ,it's called an election!! By choosing where we put our mark on the ballot paper or by choosing not to put our mark at all we can place a vote of no confidence and get rid of those responsible for mismanaging the affairs of South Africa Inc. Imagine that!

      robqb - 2012-04-29 10:44

      Ian, I must agree with your statement but be forewarned. Do not hold your breath waiting for this to happen. The majority of the Black population, and I'm not being racist with this, will always vote for the ANC 'cause the ANC got them out of their misery of being 2nd(or 3rd) class citizens in their own country. The younger Blacks will stand up and vote elsewhere but it will be a long time before that happens. Let's just hope that it happens before we become a Zimbabwe Junior!

  • marisa.andain - 2012-04-29 10:25

    Most of South Africa's roads were build in the 1970's... without e-tolling, without tollgates. SANRAL was established in 1998. Why target Gauteng for e-tolls? It has to be because Gauteng has the highest income when compared to the other provinces. Lets also remember that the biggest lump of 'wealth' is held by less than 10% of individuals... but 100% will be paying for e-tolls. I get annoyed by economists saying that e-tolling is going to benefit the economy. YES because everyone is going to be working harder to survive every month. If you take more from the consumer and shove it into the 'system', it will benefit the system. "Economists" should have a module including "personal effects", because the machine looks fine but the cogs are red, worn and at breaking point.

      robqb - 2012-04-29 10:53

      Hullo marisa.andain. Hope you've woken up since writing your little comment. If I misunderstood what you're saying, please forgive. But, please, we down here in the Cape have had a toll booth on Du Toits kloof for more years than I care to remember! OH! What about the new toll going over Chappies (Chapman's Peak) to Hout Bay? Or is that my imagination running wild.

  • les.cunningham1 - 2012-04-29 15:14

    Can you imagine the carnage. it would cost Sanral an absolute fortune, (forget it costing the public) if the public just didn't pay up. The administration of issuing bills and fines etc. over years and years and the court cases would just be too costly. Sanral would never be able to cope financially or otherwise. CLOSE THE SYSTEM DOWN!! FORGET IT. IT WONT WORK.

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