News24

Fewer religious people in SA - survey

2012-08-10 22:30

Johannesburg - The number of people in South Africa who consider themselves religious has dropped by 19%, an international survey revealed on Friday.

According to the latest polls released by the Win-Gallup International Religiosity and Atheism Index, which measures global self-perceptions on belief, religious South Africans dropped from 83% in 2005 to 64% in 2012.

The survey, conducted during November 2011 and January 2012, was based on interviews with 52 000 men and women from 57 countries in five continents.

South Africa was fifth behind Vietnam which dropped by 23%, Ireland, 22%, Switzerland, 21%, and France 21%.

According to the survey, 28% of South Africans do not consider themselves religious, 4% were convinced they were atheists, and 5% did not respond to questions.

The survey also indicated that globally the number of people claiming to be religious dropped by 9%, while atheism rose by 3%.

Ghana was the most religious country in the world with 96%, followed by Nigeria with 93%.

China had 47% of citizens claiming to be atheists, followed by Japan with 31% and the Czech Republic with 30%.

The survey further indicated that worldwide people in the bottom income groups were 17% more religious than those in the top income groups.

The low income group accounted for 66% of religious people and the high income groups accounted for 49%.

Comments
  • bernard.mackenzie.5 - 2012-08-10 22:39

    Excellent news.

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-08-10 22:52

      Depends. There seems to be a lot of political worship about instead

      Biker - 2012-08-11 00:38

      @lacrimose.wolf I think you have a very very valid point! Political worshipping in this country has definitely replaced the previous followers of religion. Religion has become less important and following the "political devil" blindly has replaced the previous worshipping of the fairy in the flowing gown. But in the final analysis it just proves the point that religion is for the weak. Anybody promising little free treats and free rides will get the support, be it Jesus with an eternal life, that once gave comfort to those in shacks. So the ANC has become the new god to follow even if they don't ever deliver on anything, much like Christianity or any religion for that matter.

      boramk - 2012-08-11 03:08

      @ Dakeyras If the only think that is keeping you from killing people is a belief or fear of hell you have a bigger problem on your hands.

      netizen.six - 2012-08-11 03:59

      Religion is slowly being choked to death - what a wonderful world of science, knowledge, and reason awaits us. -- Proud member of those of the non-religious persuasion.

      zaatheist - 2012-08-11 04:16

      Dakeyras Reaches for the BS spray. There is no substantive evidence for an omnipotent father-figure deity as postulated by the Christian/Jewish/Islamic tradition. So without religion can there be morality? Certainly, because true moral behavior is based upon simple self-interest. The guiding ethic is to truly act in your own best interest. That would mean treating all people fairly, honestly and, as it says in the Hippocratic Oath, "Cause no harm." Religions invent all other "sins" to increase their control over people. Non religious people are moral because it's right. Religious people are "moral" otherwise their imaginary sky daddy won't let them into Happy Magic Fun Land after they die. But if they do do anything bad, no matter how horrendous, they can just say "I'm sorry" and it's all forgiven. Religion allows them to get away with anything without having to feel any real remorse for it. So religious people are more willing to be immoral "just this once" when they have to make a moral choice. The countries with the lowest crime rates are the least religious.

      nico.vandermerwe.54 - 2012-08-11 07:42

      @zaatheist. You appear to fight a fierce battle against a non existent god? If I put up burglar bars, there are burglars out there. You may do more than you think to convince others that God exists. You may be an instrument in his hand.

      herman.charles.12 - 2012-08-11 09:37

      average 1000 people interviewed per country= irrelevant news!

      nico.vandermerwe.54 - 2012-08-11 12:49

      @Mememan: Many atrocities have been committed in the name of freedom, humanity and self defence. Does that mean these principles are to blame ot that they do not exist? No, it is the person distorting ideology for selfish gain. God gave everyone a free will.

      nico.vandermerwe.54 - 2012-08-11 13:58

      @Mememan: I think you get the point. Do not deny the existence of God because you perceive atrocities commited purportedly in his name to be a virus ideology.

      Sunshine- - 2012-08-11 14:58

      Why not Nico?

      nico.vandermerwe.54 - 2012-08-11 15:55

      @Sunshine : Blame Hitler for the Holocaust, not national pride. He abused national pride to get his own selfish way. Similarly, fanatics distort their perception of God to suit their own agendas. @Mememan : "Indicators and logic to the contrary"? Can we grasp the concept of infinity? What was before it? What comes after it? One can not grasp infinity because your and my being and minds were created within the finite dimensions of space, time, and all dimensions which science and logic have not uncovered (yet). How can one ever define God by using a mortal brain? I am glad that you are still entertaining the concept of God, or a delusional virus in the software of the mind, as you call Him. Be sure, he still entertains you and love you! He will not give up on you. You have an excellent and intelligent way of reasoning. Take it one step further and entertain the 'impossible' : what if there IS someone bigger than all we can imagine? Wow.

      doug.norris.581 - 2012-08-12 02:18

      Dakeyras posted. The last nation to adopt 'atheism' (USSR) didn't fair so well, and they didn't have quite the overly violent youth we do. Be very careful what you wish for. Here is an extract from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Soviet_Union The Soviet Union was the first state to have, as an ideological objective, the elimination of religion and its replacement with atheism. The communist regime confiscated religious property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in schools. The confiscation of religious assets was often based on accusations of illegal accumulation of wealth. This is hardly people moving away from religion based on people's choice - as is happening more frequently in many parts of the world. Nigeria, one of the world's most religious countries, is hardly a good advert of religious based morality.

      wordisword - 2012-08-12 14:49

      @ nico - We cannot grasp infinity, therefore Jeebus was nailed to a cross, and if you don't believe it, "Infinity" will punish you eternally. Christians assume a bit too much for my taste.

      jannie.devos.56 - 2012-08-12 16:36

      You can fool some of the people some of the time, but... ;-)

      dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-12 23:29

      @Doug "This is hardly people moving away from religion based on people's choice - as is happening more frequently in many parts of the world." No, you're right Doug, we're not at the same level at that of the USSR, after all most countries nowadays seriously frown upon simply murdering millions of people because of their faith or ethnicity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union Here's close to 70 years of persecution. Read carefully, see if you can see any similarities (check out the early years). Of course the USSR wasn't quite so direct as Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge, blatantly outlawing religion and simply dumping millions in mass graves left right and centre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot For that matter, they also didn't simply sent 6 million Jews to their death either. It's great that people are questioning their faith. In the absence of God though, please try explain to these folk why exactly it is important to live what YOU or someone else considers a 'good' life. Not everyone seems to agree on what is 'good'. See Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin and Lenin. See, 'good' and 'bad' are pretty subjective measures.

      dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-12 23:30

      @Boramk "If the only think that is keeping you from killing people is a belief or fear of hell you have a bigger problem on your hands." How do you atheists bring 'a fear of Hell' into this? My actions are governed by my conscience and my conscience formulated out of a love for both God as well as my fellow man. The guy in the street pointing a gun at you, he's another matter all together. He has been raised in a very different world from you and I. The only thing keeping him from you is the possibility that an omniscient creator may not approve of his actions. Then again, just like Dahmer, Stalin and Lenin, where there is no God, there is no good, no evil.

      arthur.hugh - 2012-08-13 08:46

      Where is Charles now? Lol... licking his wounds probably!

      DamnTheMan - 2012-08-13 09:48

      @Dakeyras wow USSR why go all the way there , look at SA. Under religious persecution , how where the native South African's treated with love or hate ? Interesting how you cling to a religion that actively killed for a loving God or was that hating , I'm so confused ! Think crusades , Spanish Inquisition , colonization of the planet that killed the American Indians , South Americans and African including slavery which the book book says is good. @nico.vandermerwe.54 yes we have free will , then why won't xians let gays do whatever they want ? Not free to do it in other words , aren't you interfering in gods will ? Well this coming from a book that , in the ten commandments , says do not murder , but then advocates the stoning of , gays, atheists , rape survivors , working on the Sabbath , lying children , witches and non-believers and to xians this is not a contrdiction. Where in the Buy Bull does it say that you can judge people and force your will on others? Isn't that encroaching on other people's free will and actively against god's word ? Damn the man.

      Marcus Steenberg - 2012-08-13 10:10

      Thank god/the gods for the drop in religiosity - SA still has a long way to go to reach the heady heights of secular Britain or the Scandinavian countries but when it does life will be so much better for everyone with less busy bodies interfering in other people's lives. Alberton is a typical example where you are just surrounded by Christians. Its very off putting.

      dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-13 14:07

      @DamnTheMan: "Under religious persecution , how where the native South African's treated with love or hate ?" Somewhat confused here. Are you actually suggesting that 'religion' (used in a broad sense) was responsible for colonisation? Let me guess, you've never even heard of the Dutch East India Company? Thomas Huxley: "It may be quite true that some negroes are better than some white men; but no rational man, cognisant of the facts, believes that the average Negro is the equal, still less the superior, of the white man." Do you actually know who Huxley was? Do you know who was responsible for ending slavery in the UK, an atheist or a Christian? @DamnTheMan: "Think crusades , Spanish Inquisition , colonization of the planet that killed the American Indians , South Americans and African including slavery which the book book says is good." Ah, so let's ignore the LAST CENTURY COMPLETELY and go back 1,000 years to the crusades? Sure, makes sense! Please find my a single verse in the Bible which states 'slavery is good'. All I see (even from the Mosaic Laws) is laws for freeing slaves (that would otherwise have been slaves for life) every seven years. Isn't it ironic that the Israelites set the standard for slave rights back in the day, yet here you are suggesting it actualy promoted it? The same arguments you make today, Lenin and Stalin made 90 years ago. You're in good company.

      patrick.buckley.712 - 2012-08-13 14:16

      WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO CHARLES DUMBWIT?????? Must be off writing another book. John Lennon would have loved this.....

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 14:48

      @Meme LMAO ... I knew you would be here , like flies on sh-t, that's you atheists , lol , so predictable! Ok Meme , this "survey"or "poll" , yes I put it in " " for a reason, did you even bother to find out the sample size IE: how many people did the "poll" interview? I'll tell you , in SA the sample size was 200 , now that's a really small sample size considering they trying to present their "poll" as representative of SA which has a population in excess of 50 000 000 , that's 1 in 250 000 it;s laughable! What I'd like to know from the company that did the "poll" in SA , Topline, how was this "poll" of these 200 people conducted IE: where, when, how and who? Meme , I'd like to get the answer as to these details for a reason, you see if I were to go to Ellispark and ask 200 people if they thought Transformation in SA Rugby has being a success, I think my results would be quite different than if I asked the same question to 200 people in lets say Protea Mall in Soweto, wouldn't you? The question posed also leaves one doubting the results of this "poll" , you see asking people if they are religious is not the same as asking them if they believe in a God, you see someone might not consider them selves "religious" ie: going to Church , but that doesn't mean they don't believe in Christ or Allah or any other deity for that matter. So Meme, wipe that smile off your face for now, this "poll" with it's LOADED questions is just one more feeble atheist attack!! It's a JOKE!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 15:19

      @Dakeyras http://bible.cc/exodus/21-7.htm Selling daughter into slavery Rules. Yes the Buy bull advocates slavery. First Quote Yes Religion is responsible for colonization Really , and the dutch never supported apartheid ? Think again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_colonization_of_the_Americas "In the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas, ratified by the Pope, these two kingdoms divided the entire non-European world into two areas of world exploration and colonization, with a north to south boundary that cut through the Atlantic Ocean and the eastern part of present-day Brazil." Missionaries are politically motivated. http://www.postcolonialweb.org/zimbabwe/religion/arntsen3.html Spanish Inquisition and colonisation. http://www.shmoop.com/spanish-colonization/summary.html "This system was heavily abused, and Indians throughout the Americas were reduced to a condition of virtual slavery." For more reading http://assets.cambridge.org/97805211/94105/frontmatter/9780521194105_frontmatter.pdf Yes xians did promote slavery by doing nothing. KKK highly religious and murderous , still are. http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery What was that the buy bull does not support slavery ...

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 15:25

      Damn the JODY BEGGS !!! DAMN HIM !!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 15:30

      @paulthekok you could refute what I said but you probably can't. So you resort to insults , cute .

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 16:20

      @ Jody Beggs No Jody , you the one insulting or should I say damning our God, you can dish it out but can't take it, typical gay guy! As for refuting the BS you spew, I want nothing to do with you, EXCEPT .... DAMN THE JODY BEGGS!!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 16:51

      @paulsmallkok. Typical xian that thinks the world revolves around god. Fail... Damn the man is against oppression , I'm glad you automatically assumed the role as oppressor and took offence , cute really.

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 17:01

      @ Jody So who's oppressing you?

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 17:15

      @paulthekok , no-one , its against any form of oppression , even idjits.

      dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-13 18:20

      @DamnTheMan: "http://bible.cc/exodus/21-7.htm" Well done, you clearly seem to struggle with the concept of modern day lobola or bride price! You do realise marriages were arranged in those days? Again, please find me a verse where the Bible promotes slavery, i.e. capture of peace loving free men, and enslaving them. @DamnTheMan: 'Yes Religion is responsible for colonization ' LOL.Do you even understand why OUR OWN COUNTRY was colonised? Goodness man, do you not even know why the Boer War was faught? Do you really not know why the Dutch East India company settled at the Cape of Good Hope? Google the Dutch East India company, there's your hint. Do you know know why the British took over the Cape? Do you know why the British took over the Kimberley and invaded Transvaal? Don't be so dof. This is part of history's syllabus for for grade 6's. @DamnTheMan: "Yes xians did promote slavery by doing nothing." Except end it? What did atheists do? Google Ukraine.

      dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-13 21:17

      @Mememan: "And so, you plot the trend line, and regardless of the validity of this particular survey, you are on a losing wicked, sir. " http://christianity.about.com/od/denominations/p/christiantoday.htm "Christianity is ranked the largest religion in the world today. According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, in 2010 there were 2.18 billion Christians around the world, nearly a third of the global population. " Goodness Meme, atheism has claimed Christianity dead for almost two centuries now! Did Niche not claim 'God is dead' in the 1800's already? No, the last century has seen how an atheist state will fail abysmally, how carefully the universe is fine tuned and how many Scientists came to believe (Watson, Hoyle) that DNA is far too complex to have 'evolved' on Earth. Goodness, even the Big Bang theory nullified the belief that the universe simply always existed, stating quite succinctly that in the beginning there was indeed light! Currently it is the atheist that needs faith in 'another universe' to disprove fine tuning, not the Christian. When Dawkins finally agrees to debate William Lane Craig, we'll see the end of atheism. Science (real science) sure is great.

      paulthebok - 2012-08-14 08:45

      @Meme Some of us work you know, we all don't work for news24 like you! LMAO, a man of science, yeah right, your response shows what type of science you do if you were really a "a man of science". First of all you wouldn't dare admit that this "poll" is BS, but no problem we all know your'e biased, Secondly your thumbs up survey ,lol, now that's science, like I said like flies on sh_t , Thirdly you say "so let those who paid for the study worry about its validity" , they won't worry about it's validity because they wanted these "stats" to support their agenda IE: they atheists, this is clearly demostrated via the loaded question and the low number of people polled. So like I said ... wipe that smile off your smug face for now!!! Ok, stats .... some real ones for you! SA Chirstians = 39,843,000 thats 79.7% read it and weep!! SA Muslims = 1,725,000 thats 3.5 more tears ! Total = 41,568,000 thats 83.2% NOT 64% !!!! And then we haven't counted Jews, Hindus, Buddhism ect ect! Yes Meme we know how you love a lie that supports your agenda! More tears ... World totals. Christians 2 300 000 000 WOW!!! Muslims 2 200 000 000 WOW!!! Hindus 1 000 000 000 Wow!!! Buddhists 680 000 000 wow!!! Total = 6 180 000 000 WOW WOW!! = 88.28% of 7 000 000 000 WOW!! No Meme, me thinks you batting on the losing wicket, but then we all know you a loser, your lies show this clearly!!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-14 09:41

      @Dakeyras just as I thought you resort to lying , please explain how religion ended slavery ? "Except end it? What did atheists do? " Its always been used to justify it but now you clearly has evidence contradicting it ! "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are" Your comment on quote. "Well done, you clearly seem to struggle with the concept of modern day lobola or bride price! You do realise marriages were arranged in those days? Again, please find me a verse where the Bible promotes slavery, i.e. capture of peace loving free men, and enslaving them. " The quote clearly says "When a man sells his daughter as a slave". Read there slave not lobola or bride price , idjit , lying again. How xian of you. The above quote where it say a man can sell his daughter as a slave is my quote that the buy bull condones slavery. My what a thick skull you have.

      denise.ryan.5203 - 2012-08-14 10:47

      Contrarian - The skeptic's judgment of God is rendered according to his or her limited understanding. In order to believe that there is no God, the skeptic has to accept and believe a number of simply outrageous suppositions. If science is God's evidence, then Bible prophecy is God's signature. God revealed through His prophet, in no uncertain terms, that the mysteries contained in the Scriptures will be "revealed" when "knowledge will increase."

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-08-14 12:44

      I agree, and the delusional religious people insist their cult is gaining strength. When in actual fact, people are realising what a load of bull all religion is.

      dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-14 12:58

      @Damn the man: 'please explain how religion ended slavery ' Ignoring for the moment it is stipulating that every X number of years all slaves were to go free... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce Seems you've not even heard of him. @Damn the man: 'The quote clearly says "When a man sells his daughter as a slave".' Ancient Hebrew only has about 500 words. Try think a little past the translation or is that too much to ask? Modern day 'labola' is selling your daughter! Bride Price is 'selling your daughter'! Before you go on being all high and mightly, these very customs actually serve to PROTECT WOMAN, ironically it gives woman worth. In modern day Indian society, new born girls are even discarded because woman hold no value in society. Babies are ABORTED because woman discover the sex of their unborn child! Asking money for your daugther was NORMAL because otherwise (God forbid) people may have acted just like those today, actually discarded their newborns at birth. Bride Price is not even unique to Christianity for goodness sakes! It occurs today in Thailand and China, just to mention a few. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-14 13:54

      @Dakeyras so it happens else where doe that make it right ? Well only if your an xian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce Great man , helped end slavery from religious slave owners. And it was more political than religious. He new changing the churches point of view was impossible so he entered the political realm to get the job done. And Abraham Lincoln did nothing to abolish slavery ... Poor example as many of the slave owners at the time where in fact irreligious and used the buy bull to declare them sub human. And by the way , the dutch did colonize South Africa but they where staunchly religious and who did they pray too ? Lying just makes you look like an idjit. Apartheid was a religious movement to keep animals "slaves/non-whites i.e. blacks" in their place. That's it.

      dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-14 17:20

      William Wilberforce (24 August 1759 – 29 July 1833) "He headed the parliamentary campaign against the British slave trade for twenty-six years until the passage of the Slave Trade Act of 1807." Slave Trade Act 1807 "The Committee for the Abolition of the Slave Trade formed in 1787 was formed by a group of Evangelical English Protestants allied with Quakers to unite in their shared opposition to slavery and the slave trade." Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865) "Although he frequently attended with his wife but never joined a church, Lincoln was familiar with the Bible, quoted it and praised it." DamnTheMan: 'And by the way , the dutch did colonize South Africa but they where staunchly religious and who did they pray too ? ' The entire WORLD supported slavery! Goodness the Zulu Queens had slaves! Slavery was the norm. How do you manage to blaim 'religion' for a sin committed by all, particularly in light of what I've just shown, i.e Darwin's bulldog view on the 'African'?

      dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-14 17:24

      DamntheMan: "so it happens else where doe that make it right ?" Where do you get that from? I'm explaining to you in SIMPLE terms how the Mosaic law did not promote slavery, rather provide a SAFER framework that protecting the right of the woman being sold. You like to quote Exodus 21 v7, but ofcourse you don't quite the entire context, lets analyse: "8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money." 1. the woman is PROTECTED from being sold to foreigners (those that might abuse her) 2. the woman gains full rights as a daughter. 3. He may not deprive her of rights as a first wife (should he choose to wed another) 4. Upon failing to do so, she gains her freedom. Do you really understand that the Bible is not PROMOTING slavery, it is regulating an existing HUMAN tradition and actually providing the Isrealite woman, WOMANS RIGHTS! How exactly do you infer from this revolutionary step for woman's rights 6,000 odd years ago that slavery was promoted? You do realise God wasn't exactly happy with the way the Israelites behaved right?

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-19 21:02

      @Dakeyras But where does it say its wrong. It just defines rules , it does not abolish it , does it. Major fail , its like zuma sticking up for multiple wives because it suites him.

  • ShotLeft - 2012-08-10 22:48

    Check emigration stats...

      jomar.delange - 2012-08-10 23:07

      @Shotleft: 19% = 10+ million people ... did that many emigrate, Einstein?

      merven.halo - 2012-08-13 07:59

      @ShotLeft - so all the religious people are emigrating? So much for having trust in your god... 'but if you introduce logic into the discussion' Logic and religion can not be mentioned in the same sentence.

      hermann.bohmer - 2012-08-13 12:13

      Congrats, my atheistic mates. Now let's evaluate this "logic will prevail" 52000 people in 57 countries = +-912 people per country. SA has 48.8 milj people (2012 etimate). Thus we apply 0.000019% of a certain nation of the mass, and then we are overjoyed by results. Really silly. Was the survey done throughout SA, or only certain areas? The ratio of high income vs low income in relation atheism or religious only show the percentage of people interviewed in different clases, in other words, of the 912 people 41.5% were of lower income, while 58.5% was interviewed in high income sector. This survey means nothing regardless which way the results went. Just hot air. LMAO

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 15:43

      This "poll" is a BS atheist propaganda poll, In SA only 200 people were polled, out of 50 000 000 that's 1 in 250 000. It's a joke! What I find quite funny is this , Meme, our resident Einstein, a man who claims to be a man of science doesn't realise that this "poll" was biased right from it's inception. The Question is a loaded one , a person might not consider him/her self to be religious, yet they still believe in a God/ deity. If this poll were to be scientifically scrutinised it would fall way short of scientific standards, yet Meme rants on about it's results, that's very scientific of you , Meme !!!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 16:16

      @paulthebok you can almost smell something burning , are you thinking up an argument or was that brain fart ?

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 16:32

      DAMN THE JODY BEGGS !!!!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 16:52

      @paulthekok , yip , brain fart ...

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 17:03

      Dam the JoDY BEGGS!!!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 17:16

      Something smells off.

      paulthebok - 2012-08-14 08:51

      @ Meme And you "a man of science" LMAO Mr Einstein !!! @ Jody Beggs Yes I smell it too, think it's Meme's "science", pity he can't admit his "science" is rotten!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-14 09:43

      @paulthekok , your nose is to close to your @rse idjit.

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-14 16:15

      @paulthekok yes science is rotten now through away your car, cellphone , electricity , medicine , air travel in fact any technology and then wait for god to provide. Idjit.

  • ozzyin.sa - 2012-08-10 22:59

    Farce.

      Biker - 2012-08-11 00:13

      Don't bother with him MemeMan. Not worth the effort. When you start peeling off the Christian veneer of his perceived front he puts up here, you will be surprised what emerges.

      zaatheist - 2012-08-11 04:20

      Ozzy is a professional Xian who has found it increasingly difficult to make a crust peddling god in his own country as confirmed by a recent Australian census. The No Religion group has now moved to second place (22.3%), behind Catholic (25.3%) and ahead of Anglican (17.1%). And, the No Religion group is the only one of the major religious groups that has increased since the previous Census (2006) – all the other major religious groups have declined. http://openparachute.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/australian-census-confirms-healthy-trend/ So he is in South Africa trying to make his money by spreading fear and superstition among the the poor and less educated. and makes his money

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 15:45

      @Meme Insults .... is that all you've got Meme?

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 16:17

      @paulthebok wow ditto paulthekok no argument , just insults ! Idjit...

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 16:33

      DAMN THE JODY BEGGS !!!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 16:53

      @paulsmallkok the force is strong with this one , can anyone else smell something ..

      paulthebok - 2012-08-14 09:01

      @Jody Beggs and Meme. LMAO , not only does your backing of this "poll" show off your stupidity, your insults do too, childish , so I have a small one , bah haaa hooo , Jody at least I know which hole it's meant to go in, Meme , tell me did that hot German wife of your's leave you because you couldn't get it up? See we all can be childish if we so choose to, lol!!!

  • freddie.s.swart - 2012-08-10 23:00

    Noted but you cannot accurately measure by means of survey. Many religious people do not live in cities but in regions that are difficult to reach ex Africa and China. It looks like the survey was only done in urban areas with are more influnce by globalisation.

      DamnTheMan - 2012-08-13 09:54

      @freddie.s.swart and how many xians are closet atheists because of fear ? Fear of parents , peer pressure , husbands forcing their will on the spouse and children ! Forcing a religion on kids is the same as bringing them up racists. They don't know a different way of life. A racist hates nearly as much as a hardened religious nut does !

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 15:46

      Damn the JODY BEGGS !!! DAMN HIM !!!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 16:54

      I blew his bugle ....

      paulthebok - 2012-08-14 09:07

      @Jody and Meme. No Jody you can't blow my bugle , back off Biacth!!! Meme, so says the man of science who couldn't keep his "hot German" wife smiling, if you need a few tips just ask Jody he'll set you up with one of his mates!!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-14 09:44

      @paulssmallkok. Wow homophobe on top of being a d!ck , impressive.

      paulthebok - 2012-08-14 13:13

      No Jody , I'm not a homophobe just a Jodyphobe , back off Biatch!!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-14 13:56

      @paulthekok spoken like a true "TM" xian... Do you pray with that mouth ?

  • des.cider - 2012-08-10 23:00

    The research must surely be faulty. How can anyone in this country believe that Zumaland has a greater creator than him?

  • Cesley Cooke Olivier - 2012-08-10 23:00

    what sad news! Maybe if there were more Christians this country would not be so riddled with crime and corruption! .....Please Pray for this!!

      bernard.mackenzie.5 - 2012-08-10 23:07

      Virtually all politicians, corrupt or not, claim to be Christian. One thing i have recognised is being a Christian does not stop you doing the crime. pull your head out of the sand.

      Hat3d - 2012-08-10 23:17

      I got some very bad news for you...

      mike.boylen - 2012-08-10 23:21

      It's ironic that Nigeria is the 2nd most religious country in the world. I wonder what percentage of crime they are responsible for.

      blou.johnny - 2012-08-10 23:31

      ...yes, ...less religious persons... ..and far more barbarians... ...check the out of control crime stats...

      hendrik.fleming - 2012-08-11 00:28

      Yes, just look what religion brought to SA, Apartheid, high crime rates, etc, etc, etc .....

      merven.halo - 2012-08-13 08:03

      'Maybe if there were more Christians this country would not be so riddled with crime and corruption' Bollocks, the biggest criminals are normally the most religious. They justify their crimes by reading the bible in 'context'. Kent Hovind comes to mind: "I'm a child of God, God does not pay taxes so neither will I" As well as the Crusades and Apartheid.

      bruning.vankriekenbeek - 2012-08-13 11:57

      88% of US criminal inmates are religiots. Religion is good for crime... Bwaaaahaaaa hahahaha

      piet.strydom - 2012-08-13 11:58

      Hi Mememan Do you have any proper research on cause and effect?

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 15:55

      oh boy. religion does not equate morality. a quick google search will show religion being the the biggest taker of human lives. someone here talked about Hitler. Hitler killed millions of jews. coz the bible said so. he marched through europe, for god. this asshat who is in court now for killing and raping those girls, is sitting there with a bible next to him. moral my ass.

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 16:12

      @ Meme There you go again ... lying for you agenda. Denmark. Another study by Eurobarometer Poll 2005, 31% of Danish citizens responded that "they believe there is a god", whereas 49% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force" and 19% that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, god, or life force" Ok I'll do the Math for you 31% + 49% = 80% that believe in God, Spirit or life force, IE they are not Atheists !!! Only 19% atheists! Sweden According to the most recent Eurobarometer Poll 2005 23% of Swedish citizens responded that "they believe there is a god". 53% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force". 23% answered that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, god, or life force". Ok math for you Meme 23% + 53% = 76% believers , only 23 % atheists.

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 16:25

      @paulthekok who's lying now ? Are they believers in God or other gods or entities ? Sweden According to the most recent Eurobarometer Poll 2005 23% of Swedish citizens responded that "they believe there is a god". 53% answered that "Not God , life force , mother nature , Ancestors". 23% answered that "No god at all". That means 23% believe in jeebus not 76%. Denmark. Same thing , bending what other people believe to make your cause look better. Do you pray with that mind ? See you in hell buddy

      paulthebok - 2012-08-13 16:36

      No it means 76% believe that there is a deity out there , not nothing like you atheist believe! DAMN THE JODY BEGGS !!

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-13 16:55

      @paulthekok yes but not god , gods competition so it does not count for you. Your stealing and that's not godly but satany. I think I can see your horn , wait that's just a toothpick in your pocket.

      paulthebok - 2012-08-14 09:14

      @Mene LMAO now not only are you a man of science who aspires to be like Einstein(your words) LOL , your'e now a Nostradamus wannabe too , whats next Meme? sh_t maybe I should warn Robin Williams you out to take his crown as the king of comedy!

      paulthebok - 2012-08-15 14:51

      @Meme Ahhh thanks , glad to know I'm being missed!

  • JohncarlosBiza - 2012-08-10 23:14

    Bit by bit, we are becoming more intelligent

      blou.johnny - 2012-08-10 23:41

      ...except for the ANC... ..they never learn....

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 15:56

      intelligence FTW

  • neil.fromearth - 2012-08-10 23:14

    Look at the numbers, makes sense. Educated people are typically better off financially. Great news. Religion has caused more death on this planet than anything else. One day, people will laugh at religious beliefs just like we do to the ones who thought the earth was flat, Just 500 years ago!!!

      Hat3d - 2012-08-10 23:28

      No more different than the Egyptians bowing down to RA, Anubis... or the Greeks to Zeus, Ares... one day all religions will be fantasy for movies and books... that's if humanity lives to see that day

      Robert Makhado - 2012-08-10 23:33

      its true l

      J.Stephen.Whiteley - 2012-08-11 08:10

      Wait a minute! Aren't wars and ignorance the result of selfishness, greed and fear? And don't people nail religion to their masts to make their causes respectable? Who used to think the earth was flat? Everyone, of course.

  • crracker.crackerr - 2012-08-10 23:31

    As if we asked to be here. And then we get borne and we grow up and we wonder what we are here for. And we get clever. With our procreational nonsense and all. No different from the rest of nature. The terror. Did we ask for ir?

      J.Stephen.Whiteley - 2012-08-11 08:12

      I did ask to be here. I'm looking forwrd to coming back.

      zaatheist - 2012-08-14 05:34

      @Stephen A false hope and wishful thinking.

  • charljnaude - 2012-08-10 23:35

    Ask the churches that supported apartheid why the people have left the church. The Afrikaans churches have not apologise to its members for supporting apartheid and spreading the wrong christian message.

      jan.buter.332 - 2012-08-11 16:45

      I think the opposite is true. The churches continuously making excuses for historical mistakes or perceived mistakes like Slavery, Nazism, Crusades, Apartheid,are the same churches that continue to try and be as politically correct as possible. They somehow always "support" whoever is in control. They tend to be soft on, or even ignore, the CURRENT situation and the current sins. Hence they become irrelevant. They are trying to chance history and they should be trying to improve the future.

      hermann.bohmer - 2012-08-13 09:51

      Sam, Segregation was first introduced in SA by the English settlers( 1820). It wasn't a original dutch ideology. Ignorance is you...

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 15:58

      true point that. they touted that the bible said, the black man is not human, has no soul. and now?...............crickets. now they have to *horror* let them blacks into the church!!

      hermann.bohmer - 2012-08-14 10:13

      @MistressSnowclaw - August 13, 2012 "Policy true point that. they touted that the bible said, the black man is not human, has no soul. " Could you quote the verses you claim the Bible has saying this? That someone taught it, is true. it was called the "Isreal vision", if I am not mistaken. But then it wasn't something they got from Bible. It is thought up idea, with a lot of misinterpretations and perceptions.

      jody.beggs - 2012-08-19 21:19

      @hermann.bohmer In 1856 Reverend Thomas Stringfellow, a Baptist minister from Culpepper County in Virginia, put the pro-slavery Christian message succinctly in his "A Scriptural View of Slavery:" ...Jesus Christ recognized this institution as one that was lawful among men, and regulated its relative duties... I affirm then, first (and no man denies) that Jesus Christ has not abolished slavery by a prohibitory command; and second, I affirm, he has introduced no new moral principle which can work its destruction... Easy to justify anything in the buy bull... Jesus never wanted to stop slavery ...

  • samuel.mphela - 2012-08-10 23:40

    Interesting! But surveys aren't necessarily an absolute reflection of the truth...merely a depiction of trends...however the numbers don't add up in my lil brain...'the low income group accounted for 66% of religious people and the high income group accounted for 49%' uhm....

      press.enter.12 - 2012-08-11 11:24

      Interesting - the News 24 "Censoring God" is making postings disappear again - so as I posted previously - the 66% and the 49% represent percentages of the religious people in the lower and higher income quintiles - you cannot add the two figures - but then this is something that a bit of clearer and applied journalism should have pointed out already. Thanks again News 24 for your excellent work . . . .

      mark.tunstall.18 - 2012-08-12 10:03

      @Samuel - come on surely you can work it out; Survey carried out in one area arrives at a percentage, survey carried out in another area arrives at a percentage (effcetively two surveys) Ok here's a test for your "lil brain" start a running total of all the thumbs up or down on the commentary which indicates a non religious leaning/conviction of comments on this page alone, nevermind all the other religious thread articles posted on news24. It should become crystal clear, very quickly, where most commentators on this site place themselves in regards the subject. (You can use a calculator if you want, we cant see you.It will indiate the vast majority of commentators and readers are of the enlightened and non religious leaning)

      enlightened.bowman - 2012-08-12 10:48

      you do indeed sem to have a LIL brain and an eve smaller understanding of how surveys are conducted

  • mgaa2 - 2012-08-11 00:06

    Natural selection and nature has chosen the atheist species evolve or die

      merven.halo - 2012-08-13 08:05

      @mgaa2 Why don't you just say: Logic will prevails.

      hermann.bohmer - 2012-08-13 12:03

      Congrats, my atheistic mates. Now let's evaluate this "logic will prevail" 52000 people in 57 countries = +-912 people per country. SA has 48.8 milj people (2012 etimate). Thus we apply 0.000019% of a certain nation of the mass, and then we are overjoyed by results. Really silly. Was the survey done throughout SA, or only certain areas? The ratio of high income vs low income in relation atheism or religious only show the percentage of people interviewed in different clases, in other words, of the 912 people 41.5% were of lower income, while 58.5% was interviewed in high income sector. This survey means nothing regardless which way the results went. Just hot air. LMAO

      merven.halo - 2012-08-13 13:17

      @Herman - look at the thumbs up and thumbs down on religious topics. SA is waking up from religious propaganda.

      hermann.bohmer - 2012-08-13 13:44

      Merven, TD and TU gives a false dilemma. I got twice as much TD than TU, but no answer to my argument/statement. Does it mean anything, I mean TD's? I am not even bothered about it. Rather focus on the stats of a few, and applying it on a large group. That's illogic. It gives a false impression, and all posts from atheists, they congratulate each other and the stance. There is a saying. There is stats, stats and damn lies. Honestly do you belief stats are giving a clear picture, when only a very small percentage of the population was used? Example, Lets say a study is done on which current rugby team supportors are richer and who is cleverer. The results state it is the Blue bulls. Does it mean it is so? Even if the study was only done in Pta? Let's be honest here...

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 16:00

      love it. Darwin is my hero. he had epic brass balls to publish his works.

      paulthebok - 2012-08-14 09:27

      @ Merven Yes the thumbs up/down is now a accepted scientific method, sh_t shame all those Statisticians will soon be out of a job, you guys are so feeble! Well I suppose when one believes we came from NOTHING and your've got NOTHING to back up your BELIEFS, one would tend to clutch at every straw that comes your way. Merven, please supply me with the details of where I can obtain a degree in Thumbs Up/Down statistics.

  • LostAndDamned - 2012-08-11 00:23

    Great news. Good to know that we south Africans are making progress.

      mark.haupt.31 - 2012-08-11 07:33

      Well some of us anyway.....

  • dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-11 00:42

    So, we've been wondering why our crime is on the increase, 25% of kids in Soweto thing gang rape is 'fun', a boy gets drowned in scolding bath water and woman are more likely to get raped in this country than anywhere else (the list goes on). Now we have our answer. You're sitting on a boat load of dynamite and you don't even realise it.

      zaatheist - 2012-08-11 04:29

      Many Christians claim we have no reason to care about others if there is no God. But this is itself a religious claim, arising from the theological concept of Original Sin, which declares humankind fallen and corrupt. We can safely ignore it, for in reality we do not need childish stories of eternal reward or damnation to coerce us into being good: research shows that the least religious societies have the lowest incidence of social ills, including crime and violence. Healthy humans have empathy built in, and the explanations for this lie in psychology and evolutionary biology: no gods required.

      polya314 - 2012-08-11 09:49

      You are so ignorant of causality that I am struggling to think where to begin. Here it goes. The safest and most developed countries with the happiest people are all to be found in Scandinavia (or Nordic countries if you include Finland). These also happen to be some of the most atheistic countries in the world. Then there is China, extraordinarily safe as well as Japan. None of these countries have crime rates remotely approaching South Africa and yet they have atleast 5 times more atheists. So, if your hypothesis that the country's present state is due to atheists, then I would seriously reconsider that stance which is supported purely by what you imagine about atheists. The fact is, that the least developed nations are also the most religious - it's a crutch for people who struggle in life. That's all.

      emilemyburgh - 2012-08-11 13:13

      Or, put differently, Dakeyras, do you have any proof that all these crimes are being committed by atheists?

      mark.tunstall.18 - 2012-08-12 10:05

      Well put Polya. 100% agree.

      merven.halo - 2012-08-13 08:06

      '25% of kids in Soweto thing gang rape is 'fun' Are you talking about rape as what the bible teaches as being your right after conquering a nation, that type of rape?

      dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-14 21:47

      Zaatheist: "research shows that the least religious societies have the lowest incidence of social ills, including crime and violence." Quote research in future. Lemme guess, you're referring to wealthy nations like Monaco, Norway, Japan? It is true that there is a negative correlation between wealth and faith and that is quite understandable. Rich folk don't need God, poor folk do. @"Healthy humans have empathy built in, and the explanations for this lie in psychology and evolutionary biology: no gods required. " 'Feelings' play absolutely no role in rational discussion. You simply cannot provide me with a rationale reason (forget feelings and emotions) for why devoid of God, any action is good or bad. Case in point, Hitler understood this, he killed 6 million Jews, yet he was not devoid of empathy (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2169131/Astonishing-letter-reveals-Hitler-ordered-Gestapo-leave-WW1-commander-alone.html) Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot? Are you actually suggesting these individuals were devoid of empathy, biologically unwell? Christians don't have any problem with caring about others, they merely don't see any rational reason for doing so in the absence of God. There is quite a difference. I'm surprised you take this view, most reputable atheist philosophers understood this very well.

      dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-14 22:10

      @Meme Again Meme, it would be wonderfully helpful if you could provide references to your quotes. As for a loose correlation between increased educated and atheism, you may well be correct. It wasn't the case for once atheists C.S.Lewis, JRR Tolkien, Sir Fred Hoyle, Isaac Newton, Louis Pasteur, Galileo Galilei, Nicolaus Copernicus... just to name a few, but certainly does seem to be trend among 'people who wish to be intelligent'. Personally I wouldn't really play that particular card, especially not when the 'father of modern science' was a very dedicated Christian, but don't worry I know where you're coming from. @merven 'Are you talking about rape as what the bible teaches as being your right after conquering a nation, that type of rape? ' Strike three Merven. Please at bare minimum quote any claims you may wish to make. No doubt we're not very likely to hear from you any further in this discussion, but please prove me wrong.

      dakey.ras.73 - 2012-08-16 00:53

      Meme: "Run a google search for stats on any of the groups I named - there are lots of references." References referencing other references ... yes. Please, actually quote from reputable sources and provide such quotes. Standard practise really. @Meme: "The individuals you name as non-atheist are: 1) specialists in their respective fields" Copernicus: mathematician, astronomer, jurist with a doctorate in law, physician, quadrilingual polyglot, classics scholar, translator, artist, Catholic cleric, governor, diplomat and economist. Galilei: physicist, mathematician, astronomer, and philosopher. @Meme: "2) from a time when death penalties and ostracization met anyone who opposed the church (not something to be proud of, by the way);" Weird, yet Galileo has little problem supporting Copernicus's work and bringing his views to the Pope. The most controversial claim known to mankind and challenging a view held by the entire world for over 19 centuries and he got 'house arrest'? Weak. @Meme: "There is no surprise then that anyone prior to 1960 would not be or declare their atheism. All that has changed, son... That's why 93% of the US National Academy of Sciences are atheists, and 97% of the Royal Academy. " Seriously? Do a little research (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists_in_science_and_technology) Again, please provide first hand sources for your claims.

  • Richard Stockenström - 2012-08-11 01:04

    Always makes me laugh how the loud mouths among the atheists (like MemeMan) think its super intelligent and clever to be an atheist. That their God given powers of deduction and discernment make them a special "species" on a higher plain than the rest of us. Haha. I sadly don't know many of these genii. Are they all so gifted?

      press.enter.12 - 2012-08-11 01:52

      The evidence in the stats regarding the clever thing do seem to give some credence to memeMan's position though, disregarding your exageration for the moment . . .

      polya314 - 2012-08-11 09:42

      Perhaps if you left the church every so often and seek out people with beliefs different to yours, you'd find that the question was significantly less clear than you supposed.

      Richard Stockenström - 2012-08-11 11:35

      Here's the thing. The "my beliefs are better than yours" thing doesn't work for me. I have my (very strong) Catholic beliefs, that fulfil my life. They make my life better on every level. And I'm not ashamed to state it. I've been on the receiving end of the "I thought you were more intelligent than that" statement. People who say that are seriously closed-minded individuals IMO. As far as some might think that what I believe is myth and legend, quite the opposite has been proven to me time and time again when I had doubts about the truth. I do believe that there are Christian churches that have very strange and skewed views on the world, but it's not my place to judge. My faith make me a much better person and I think improves the lives of those around me also. Thankfully it is not up to anyone else to decide for me. More that people should just refrain from being dicks and thinking that they are better people because they believe they are clever. And just aside, on education, the Jesuits have priests with double and triple doctorates in philosophy, theology, psychology, sociology etc. Where would that leave them? Also, this article is about religiosity, not Christianity on its own.

      Richard Stockenström - 2012-08-11 11:42

      Also, the more comfortable a person is and the more content their life, the less likely they are to feel the need to give thanks and glory to anyone else but themselves. So the financially stable people are going to be more likely to put God aside, because they "don't quite need Him right now." because they have all they need. This discussion has been going on for time eternal, with people flinging their views back and forth and it not really making any progress.

      phae.rayden - 2012-08-11 12:49

      'Also, the more comfortable a person is and the more content their life, the less likely they are to feel the need to give thanks and glory to anyone else but themselves.' Surely this then is the obvious reason why people still embrace religion? - fear, bad times, loss, grief, despondency, loneliness? The ultimate placebo for living..

      emilemyburgh - 2012-08-11 13:16

      Richard, do you also believe the bible literally?

      richardjs - 2012-08-11 13:32

      Emile: You mean do I believe that Abraham lived for hundreds of years, or that the earth popped into existence over 6 days?\r\nMy answer is no. I believe that God had a hand in the formation and intricacy of everything that is. I have a degree in Biological Sciences, and have studied evolution in great detail. The thought that that evolution occurred without the guidance and plan of something great (ie God) is just unfathomable to me. I cannot grasp that this was all some lucky accident. my studies in biology only furthered my belief in God.

      richardjs - 2012-08-11 14:04

      Christ taught in parables. Those stories were meant to take complex ideas and topics and break them down so that the mass of uneducated followers that surrounded Him would easily understand. The bible does that in much the same way as far as Eden, the flood, creation goes. Time is a very loose idea in the bible, 6 days to create earth and Abraham lived for 175 years?\r\nMeme: the Catholic church is 2000 odd years old. They have been creating and changing tradition that entire time and people withing that time have been \enlightened\ to many things that are difficult to understand. The Catholic Church's dogmas are exactly that. Teachings by the church that are passed down as an understanding and FAITH more than a proven fact. Things like Mary's immaculate conception, her bodily assumption into Heaven, and Transubstantiation. \r\nMany of these beliefs are based in out FAITH in God. And in the Church. Our FAITH is what keeps us going. If you don't have FAITH, it's hard to understand and accept. \r\nWhen you have witnessed miracles and felt the true presence of God in you, this becomes a matter of insignificance. \r\nAs far as Being a better person, my faith has taught me valuable lessons. The traditions of religions promote and teach good and healthy lifestyles from a young age. Not to say atheists don't, but it seems to me that the backbone of morality and law throughout the world hinges on church (religion) taught ideas like the ten commandments. Therefore I believe that I am a better person inside and out with God in my life. It's not something I expect or require anyone to understand, but it does help in discussions like this.

      Sunshine- - 2012-08-11 15:24

      Richard surely moral commandments such as Do Not Murder make as much sense in a picture with 'just Evolution' as they do in a picture with 'Evolution as created/guided by a god'. In other words the concept of a god is superfluous to morality, it's the Do Not Murder part that makes the difference. I can't see how commandments such as 'You shall have no other god but me' provide any demonstrable value to a culture's moral position.

      richardjs - 2012-08-11 18:50

      You are referring to the biblical virgin birth, not the immaculate conception dogma. Transubstantiation lends our belief in miracles, not magic. I won't pretend to be a historian, but i do think that if we look back, the injection of faith (be it Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc) into communities may very well have to a furthering of their moral development, an injection of a simple list of rules which made life better for everyone. I stand to be corrected, but it does seem to me that the progression to civilization occurred at much the same time of the introduction of faith withing communities. I do believe that child and female abuse, racism, homophobia, etc are covered under the "treat your neighbour" commandment. Are you trying to say that no religious person can be learned? Really? i'm not here to prove myself to you, neither am i looking for some reason to be "cured", i'm not looking for your congratulations, i am merely interested in the atheist mindset... well i was. It still stands out that you have a preconceived notion that you are much cleverer than us believers. I can sit and give answers to everything you throw at me, and vice versa, but one thing presents itself to me; you want proof that what you believe (understand) is incorrect\inaccurate before you will concede a point. Well, me too. For this to be anything different from EVERY OTHER tedious discussion I want hard facts that you are not just as deluded as you are implying we are...

      merven.halo - 2012-08-13 08:09

      'Always makes me laugh how the loud mouths among the atheists (like MemeMan) think its super intelligent and clever to be an atheist.' It is a proven fact that there is a clear link between IQ (or lack thereof) and religion. The more dumb people are, the more they look for answers in a 'supernatural being'. If it can not be explained currently, it gets the god stamp.

      DamnTheMan - 2012-08-13 10:06

      @richardjs I'm glad your have a strong religious backbone and praise jeebus but do you know Catholism actively ignores the second commandment ? Do hypocrites use graven images or only the pure and godly ?

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 16:03

      if god exists, he/she/it gave us free will. free will to explore, and realise *gasp* there is no god. then, by giving us free will, has god made himself obsolete? just, FYI, babies are born atheist. if left to their own devices, they will remain so. if religion came naturally, then it wouldnt have to be drilled into you from infancy. it will comes as naturally is breathing. food for thought.....

  • emile.vanrayner.7 - 2012-08-11 01:14

    good survey, now we have some solid numbers to work with

  • amelda.davies - 2012-08-11 03:19

    To: pieter.joubert.9. Are you suggesting that everybody on earth that believes in God, are stupid?

      zaatheist - 2012-08-11 05:41

      Well lets put it this way. Pick one, all or any mix of the following: Stupid Ignorant Unintelligent Fearful of death Unthinking Brainwashed Religiously brain addled Hypocritical Require a crutch Wishful thinking. Which of these religions do you consider to be the stupid: Hinduism Islam Mormonism Scientology Jehovah's Witlesses Jainism Buddhism Shintoism Ancestor worship Belief in Zeus, Odin, Thor ..... Pikkiwoki*** ***New Guinea god who promises a pig and as many coconuts as you can carry. I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. - Stephen F. Roberts

      pieter.joubert.9 - 2012-08-11 15:52

      Amelda, the facts seem to suggest that poor uneducated people are the most religious.....so yes, I would say these people are stupid. Educated religious people are plain ignorant, brainwashed and weak. Like Zaatheist says, fear of death plays a huge part as well. You are so scared of dying that you invented heaven, where everyone is folded warmly in God's arms. The funniest thing to me about these nutters are that they use the fear of hell and brimstone to keep inline and to do good deeds. I do not need this to be a "good" person, I have decided for myself that I want to do the right thing. And I do not confuse being good with spineless....I will speak up when I am being attacked by "bad" people.

      dave.prinsloo - 2012-08-14 07:30

      pieter is wrong - not only the earthlings, but even those in outer space who believes in goddy god are deluded with jelly for brains. Thanks for correcting him amelda marcos

  • amelda.davies - 2012-08-11 03:24

    To: press.enter.12. I don't think a re-enforced bomb shelter will keep you safe. So, 'duck' all you want. Don't mock my and millions of other people's believe into your simpleton town.

      press.enter.12 - 2012-08-11 11:06

      So Amelda - your god of the bunkerbusting bombthrowing type . . . Aah haa - i see !!! - its probably been written that Romney must be elected to get me . . . . .

      dave.prinsloo - 2012-08-14 07:27

      aww, cute, amelda, aww

  • White.Tiger.Diamond.Paw - 2012-08-11 05:26

    For the mere fact that the Bible was commissioned by a man Emperor Constantine with interests of keeping his then government in power by adopting the then populist means of worship, shows that Religion especially in SA has been used as tool to exploite our people! But don't get me wrong I believe in a higher power, just not religion! Even Jesus was crucified because he said you do not have to go church to worship God.

      hermann.bohmer - 2012-08-13 08:12

      Clinton, Any proof that Apartheid had links in Bible?

      merven.halo - 2012-08-13 13:19

      @Herman - ask that to the religious freaks that taught us that God approve of Apartheid by reading the bible in 'context'.

      hermann.bohmer - 2012-08-13 13:49

      Merven, I asked clinton for the proof as well. Those are individauls with a misinterpretation of Bible. Present evidence that the Bible justifies apartheid? I dont belief that vision or the Israel vision. Total crap...

      merven.halo - 2012-08-14 07:23

      'Those are individauls with a misinterpretation of Bible. ' That was like an entire government, if an entire government and most of the population (they voted for apartheid) can 'misinterpertate' the bible, what makes you so sure that you are doing it right?

  • amelda.davies - 2012-08-11 05:32

    To: zaatheist. Thank you for your comments. You must be rich, have an excellent education and certainly is not stupid now are you? Were you born that way? With all of that? Congrats to you - being such a superior being. So many million people would want to 'study' you to get the all the answers - seeing you know so much.

      phoenix.px.5 - 2012-08-11 08:22

      May I point out that this type of commentary is doing you no favours and makes you come across as a bit of a nasty person.

      mike.down.5492 - 2012-08-11 14:35

      amelda, maybe the reason non-believers are generally well educated is based on the fact that they live one lifetime and make use of that time to learn about the real world, you on the other hand will live forever so what's your hurry to learn and understand anything. May I suggest you use your eternity wisely and maybe in the nest five hundred years you could learn just to be nice and thereafter maybe after a million years or so you could even learn about the real world......you have all the time in the world to do so.

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:53

      Knowledge and information is free. You can read a book by Roger Penrose or you can read Huisgenoot. The choice is yours.

      zaatheist - 2012-08-13 05:37

      amelda. Never rich but I grant that my parents sacrificed much to ensure I obtain the best education they could afford. Superior being, no. Stupidity is an inbuilt human failing which I suffer from as much as anyone else. It is recognising my failings and taking full responsibility for them that makes me different. that make me different

      bharath.bhumi - 2012-08-13 13:18

      To zaatheist and MeMe... Unsurprisingly you missed Amelda's point. Don't use the good nature of your parents as support for your atheism. Your parents had to have it first, in order to sacrifice it to pay for your education, fools ! Your assumption that everyone is even capable of equal sacrifice is typical atheistic arrogance. You idiots cannot solve any of lives real problems - you can only verbalise your egos. :-PPPP

      bruning.vankriekenbeek - 2012-08-13 14:27

      How many times do you have to be corrected Butthead? It is "life's problems". And you "live". You don't "life".

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 16:08

      amelda. i am poor, only have matric, have a marginally above average IQ. and yes, i do think i am superior. because i have taken the initiative to spend my schoolyears reading books, as opposed to chasing boys and smoking behind the shed. thus, i may even be a bit of an intellectual snob. you dont have to be loaded to have access to information. if you have a phone with internet access, you are sorted. someone who has taken the time, and grown a pair of balls, to ask difficult questions, arent superior beings, they are just human. the human animal has evolved because it asks questions, pulls aside the curtain to see how things works. but! oh wait, my bad, we were created 6000 years ago, and we all come from one man and one woman. how silly of me.

      bharath.bhumi - 2012-08-13 17:34

      bruning...I'm glad your spellcheck's working :-P personally I don't give a fig....:-PP

      dave.prinsloo - 2012-08-14 07:24

      Borat! Borat!

      bruning.vankriekenbeek - 2012-08-14 10:07

      Lol Mudbrain. In this case your problem is not spelling. It is sheer juvenile grammatical ignorance. However, by the time you get to matric in a year or two I would expect you to know the difference. Hehehehe

      bharath.bhumi - 2012-08-14 18:44

      hey bruning...HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...realllllllllllly....for real? ......do you have nothing to say , other than to pick on grammar ..anything? .....you're an airbrain. :-)

      bruning.vankriekenbeek - 2012-08-15 10:39

      Lol! As I said Bhorat, no "spelling" mistake. Sheer unmitigated 8th grade grammatical ignorance. As you would expect from a serf pretending to be "scientist". Again. And again. And again. And again.... ;-)

  • scheepers - 2012-08-11 05:32

    Looking at the "thumbs ups" and "thumb downs" on this page it looks like the survey was all wrong, looks more like 60% atheist to me.

      polya314 - 2012-08-11 10:06

      The poll was representative. Firstly, atheism correlates with educational level which correlates with being interested and engaging in current affairs (i.e. this site); the poll eould include people of many educational levels. Secondly, the poor were far more religious and obviously they do not have access to the Internet - or at least not to the same degree as the middle class which are the ones reading and caring about this bit of news.

  • zaatheist - 2012-08-11 05:50

    Excellent news indeed. Hitch would be so proud to know that part of his legacy is the increasing public questioning and exposing of the ridiculous and dangerous nature of religions and religious belief. Special thanks to Charles Dumbwin who so cleverly does more to this end than any other contributor on this forum. “Our weapons are the ironic mind against the literal: the open mind against the credulous; the courageous pursuit of truth against the fearful and abject forces who would set limits to investigation (and who stupidly claim that we already have all the truth we need). Perhaps above all, we affirm life over the cults of death and human sacrifice and are afraid, not of inevitable death, but rather of a human life that is cramped and distorted by the pathetic need to offer mindless adulation, or the dismal belief that the laws of nature respond to wailings and incantations.” - Christopher Hitchens

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:52

      Crawled into a hole did he?

      elewies - 2012-08-12 17:20

      Meme seems like Daekerys is filling in for Chuck

  • jaysonpaul.beckwith - 2012-08-11 06:24

    Articles like this always just opens up a big ol fat can of worms. Irrespective of what you believe in, it is your decision. There is nothing worse than someone trying to push there believe onto you. So what if there are less Christians in SA. Nobody has the right to judge anybody, only God will do that when your time comes.

      lesego.boikanyo.79 - 2012-08-11 07:46

      The article mentioned nothing about Christianity, it was talking about religion. This would mean all religious groups.

      jaysonpaul.beckwith - 2012-08-11 08:42

      I'm so sorry that you can't understand the point I was trying to make.

      zaatheist - 2012-08-13 05:42

      Well since your god does not exist who is there left to do the judging?

  • lovemore.mutawu - 2012-08-11 06:31

    An amazing survey indeed. The religious leaders in Mzansi stl lots of work to do. But how come we hve lots of Nigerians doin scams and heinous crimes worldwide if 93% are religious?

      mark.haupt.31 - 2012-08-11 07:36

      Was wondering the same thing myself

      Blackpoison - 2012-08-11 07:57

      My thoughts exactly...

      polya314 - 2012-08-11 10:00

      Because religion entitles you to absolute forgiveness despite your actions. There is no consequence because the ultimate judge has already forgiven you, whereas atheists have to live with an action the rest of their life knowing that it can not be erased and can never be overcome with good acts.

      Wendy - 2012-08-11 12:03

      "But how come we hve lots of Nigerians doin scams and heinous crimes worldwide if 93% are religious? " Because the remaining 7% of Nigerians is almost 12 Million. Add to that the large number of Nigerians who are merely nominally religious.

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:51

      Yes, MemeMan and any scientific credibility or 'edge' the U.S. may still have would also be stuffed. It would then become a nation of morons.

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 16:11

      because they are using religion to milk blind religious fools. if god was around, he/she/it wouldnt allow people to be taken advantage of in his/her/it's name. verstaan?

  • koketso.senabe - 2012-08-11 06:33

    The end is near. Remember in the time of Noah? No one believed in God. Everything that is happening now is already documented in the bible, and true Christians who know the bible know this. You are lost if you start thinking that you are superior to God, and don't forget that the devil will give you all your earthly desires, cars, property, women, etc (which are unimportant to God) and then you feel you don't need God. You are lost. The same thing happened to Adam and Eve. Ezekiel 34:16.

      Johan Van Der Sandt - 2012-08-11 07:41

      you are on the right path stay there dont let anyone tell you other wise

      polya314 - 2012-08-11 09:36

      Actually, everyone believed in god. Just not your conception thereof. The end is always near with you guys ;) Every conservative generation believes it's the last, as culture changes and Christianity becomes stagnant this happens more often.

      skootzie - 2012-08-11 11:17

      Women aren't important to god eh?

      matthew.patrick.925 - 2012-08-11 12:53

      And they rank after cars and property nogal?

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:49

      The 'end' is near? Or rather the truth?

      CaptainGaza - 2012-08-12 09:53

      So what ur saying keketso is I need to thank satan for my house,car and wife. Well that's 3 more things than god ever did for me. Thank you satan!!!

  • dawn.ludick - 2012-08-11 06:46

    Religion is personal and one's own choice.

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 13:17

      Why do then keep hearing about it? Why can I then not go one day without hearing some godawful nonsence from a religious leader. Why can I still not buy booze on a Sunday? Religion has no ability to EVER keep to itself.

      simon.pearce.790 - 2012-08-11 17:44

      Damned right, MemeMan! Well said.

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:48

      If only your church fathers knew and applied your point of view 1700 years ago. Then this debate won't be taking place either.

  • johan.coetzer.52 - 2012-08-11 07:22

    By becoming our own god we see less the need of believing in a deity/God and is able to free ourselves of the burden religion bestow upon us .

  • Malose-Nyatlo - 2012-08-11 07:24

    Technology has brcome the new religion.

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 13:17

      Got a new member of the congregation then?

      mike.down.5492 - 2012-08-11 14:38

      You must be the most devout Malose

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:47

      “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” ---- Arthur C. Clarke

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 16:18

      no. money has. money is the new religion. if your house is burning, and you had R10 000 under your pillow, and a bible in your drawer, you would save they money. dont even try and convince anybody that you wont even think of saving the money, and leaving the book to burn.

  • johan.jaarsveld - 2012-08-11 07:39

    Ag come on. 52 000 people from 57 countries. That is 912 people per country, so for SA that's about O.O1 percent of the population. So if I go to 50 creches in SA and interview 100 toddlers - I will be able to say that 99% of South Africans believe in the Easter Bunny? 100% of my family believe in God, that's my own survey.

      julian.booyens - 2012-08-11 09:15

      Statics does not tell the truth it boils down to the luck of the draw as to who they interview, 52000 interviewed from 7 billion people. If those 52k picked were religious then the stats would be opposite. These figures are a drop in the ocean.

      press.enter.12 - 2012-08-11 11:39

      Johan.jaarsveld - Just to point out how ridiculous your analogy is - if you were to go to 100 stormer supporters a little while back you would have returned a statistic that said 100% of people believe the stormers will win the super15 - don't go applying for job in statistics just yet - besides the fact that you are of the wrong cohort . . .

      Clayton Richard Delport - 2012-08-11 12:09

      And people still struggle with this concept, the 1000 people interviewed in S.a make up not the millions, your ignorance meme is astounding, and it seems you have followers, logic obviously doesn't prevail

      kholofelo.mokolo - 2012-08-11 12:34

      Exactly!

      kholofelo.mokolo - 2012-08-11 12:42

      The headline should start with \Of the 1000 people interviewed per country....\ with a disclaimer at the bottom that says *the 16% reflected herein is a mean value and not representative of all populations surveyed*

      esme.collins1 - 2012-08-11 12:52

      My exact perception of this "world survey!!" That in itself is less than 0.01% of said population surveyed!!

      mike.down.5492 - 2012-08-11 14:41

      They're not sounding desperate, more like panic!

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:46

      It's a meaningful sample. Know what that is?

      zaatheist - 2012-08-13 05:48

      When the facts conflict with and disprove your fondest beliefs and wishful thinking - ignore them.

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 16:19

      out of 50 people i know by name, at least 35 are atheist. that is my personal survey.

      paulthebok - 2012-08-14 13:31

      @Snowclaw You should get out of that Coven more often!!

  • bill.smit.7 - 2012-08-11 07:56

    God is all powerful and totally missing. So I made me a new God. Just so I know I have a purpose on earth and ,of course , eternal life.

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 16:20

      eh...... what? oh wait, people have been doing that for ages. my god is better than your god. so what you gonna call your god bill?

  • lionel.defrontignac - 2012-08-11 08:05

    That's bad news for the followers of Jedi! May the Force be with you/Live Long and Prosper!

      phoenix.px.5 - 2012-08-11 08:22

      ... and the FSM :(

      afriend.ofyoda - 2012-08-11 18:14

      Jedi is not considered a religion by us. It is considered, life...

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:45

      Don't forget the Sith.

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 16:21

      believe, you must. hmmmm?

  • freddie.s.swart - 2012-08-11 08:26

    Facts. Christianity is growing in Africa south of sahara and china while islam is growing faster than the population growth in europe. The places where there is drop in christianity is in develop countries but in contrase tere is a groth in bekieving in the mistiek like ex. The New Age mowement. That is why I don.t agree with research. From geographer piont of view.

      Wendy - 2012-08-11 08:54

      Islam is growing faster in Europe for 2 reasons. 1) Many Muslims emigrate to Europe to live in relatively more freedom. The irony there is that they then try to impose Muslim restrictions on their adopted countries, eg diet and dress. 2) They have 4+ children per couple, as opposed to the under 1.5 average children per couple for Europeans.

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 15:36

      //That is why I don.t agree with research.// I agree, i find reading the intrails of chickens so much more reliable :-)

      jacowium - 2012-08-13 14:07

      Have to love a post that start with "Facts"...and ends with "That is why I don.t agree with research". So we can all just grab "facts" out of thin air then! Words fail me...

  • herman.charles.12 - 2012-08-11 09:38

    average 1000 people/country interviewed sounds like IRRELEVANT NEWS

      herman.charles.12 - 2012-08-11 19:27

      "don't understand statistics", don't think so 1000 out of 50 000 000, would not be trusted by most, since you could prove just about anything by manipulative means in who, where, what and how you gather data; so, no I wouldn't trust any stats thrown around this loosely, and that contradicts our own stats in SA. I am, by the way, not religious!

      zaatheist - 2012-08-13 05:54

      herman Like MemeMan says, you have no idea about statistics. It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

      bharath.bhumi - 2012-08-13 13:40

      ....said the atheist censorship board :-x

  • louwrens.nieuwoudt - 2012-08-11 10:05

    Karl Marx correctly observed: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people"

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 13:27

      The critique of religion is not to pluck the flowers from the chain, so man should where his chains without consulation, but to break the chains and cull the living flower.

      Harold Chisimba - 2012-08-11 16:21

      Harold chisimba observed correctly:Atheism is always for barbaric oppressors,the heartless rapists, ruthless murders and thankless idiots.,

      Harold Chisimba - 2012-08-11 16:21

      Harold chisimba observed correctly:Atheism is always for barbaric oppressors,the heartless rapists, ruthless murders and thankless idiots.,

      Harold Chisimba - 2012-08-11 16:21

      Harold chisimba observed correctly:Atheism is always for barbaric oppressors,the heartless rapists, ruthless murders and thankless idiots.,

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 17:01

      Harold, you went full retard, can't help you. But... Answer this and you might be on to something. Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed, by the religious, that I as an atheist, cannot make or do. Go on, name one.

      mark.jacobs.9083477 - 2012-08-13 10:19

      He only said that because television hadn't been invented yet:)

      MistressSnowclaw - 2012-08-13 16:27

      opium of the people eh? yeah, and opium is SUCH a healthy habit to indulge in. tut tut.

  • Harold Chisimba - 2012-08-11 10:43

    Ooyes!Thats why nowdays SA is haven for the RAPISTS,RACISTS, ROBBERS,MURDERS ,PHOBIC PEOPLE.Ok Icomprehend now but GOD will be GOD for eternity take or leave it..

      ebrahim.adams.7 - 2012-08-11 11:55

      Thumbs up Harold ,I chose God.

      press.enter.12 - 2012-08-11 13:12

      Alternatively to choosing god to stop them you could of course also have elected to do something yourself to stop the corrupt, the thieves, the murderers and the rapist . . . . . or work together with others in your society to make rules to stop this and create instruments to stop this . . .

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 13:57

      Last time I checked when Christianity did run the state we called it the DARK AGES.

      Harold Chisimba - 2012-08-11 14:16

      Last time Ired the BIBLE ( SWEET HOLLY BOOK ) it whispered to me saying 'Only fools dont believe in GOD'.

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 14:46

      Harold, please, like I give a damn what your fairy tale book says. That line only confirms that atheists were there, in that time too. You cannot provide any evidence for which you bet your "soul" on. I'm not impressed by this. Books do not whisper by the way. Might want to check your house for lead.

      press.enter.12 - 2012-08-11 14:55

      "Last time Ired the BIBLE ( SWEET HOLLY BOOK ) it whispered to me saying 'Only fools dont believe in GOD'" Harold, better you take your medicine every morning . . . .

      mike.down.5492 - 2012-08-11 14:59

      Harold who are you calling a fool. You allowed foreigners centuries ago to take your land and in return they gave you a bible and never ending poverty. These same people mock your culture regularly as if their belief system is superior to ancestor worship. Look in the mirror and you will see the real fool.

      dave.prinsloo - 2012-08-11 21:00

      ooyes! HAROLD STOP DRINKING AND POSTING COMMENTS - GOD WILL SMITE YOU WITH THAT HOLLY BOOK!

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:40

      They had it before. You're confusing religion with an inner sense of morality and ethics. Two totally different subjects.

      polya314 - 2012-08-13 01:44

      Please tell me that you're trolling. If you're a real person out there then I feel as if we have an insurmountably steep mountain to climb.

      Harold Chisimba - 2012-08-13 09:51

      @ polya ,devils wear prada, u r indeed atrolling.

      jacowium - 2012-08-13 14:13

      Harold, take your medicine, now!

  • matthew.patrick.925 - 2012-08-11 11:00

    I, myself, am agnostic and I think the religion bashing here isn't called for. As archaic as religion may seem to all the non-religious people it's still deeply entrenched in culture and is part of who that religious person is. To the wannabe pastors, you won't find respect for your beliefs if you continue to try force them on us 'heathens'.

      Richard Stockenström - 2012-08-11 11:44

      Thumbs up.

      zaatheist - 2012-08-13 06:01

      Like richardjs the only people who want this debate to cease are the sky daddy believers. It makes them very insecure and nervious.

  • jerry.pres - 2012-08-11 11:05

    Good news, maybe world of science and knowledge start finally winning.

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 14:00

      Christianity lost, the day they allowed the bible to be owned by anyone, in their own language. The monopoly on truth was lost, when people started to see for themselves how evil it is. The best way to become an atheist is to read that book, cover to cover.

      mike.down.5492 - 2012-08-11 15:01

      That battle was won after 1859, we no longer look to magic anymore to create or design anything.

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:39

      Took a while, ~600 years since the dawn of the Renaissance and Enlightenment. Of course those early pioneers paid a bloody price for their vision under a merciless church. But 600 years later and even SA is moving into the new era. Jeepers, some people are slow.

  • veritas.odium.paret - 2012-08-11 11:12

    Yoh, and I thought the born-again movement was spiralling out of control: if it isnt groups praying (in tongues) or preaching in the middle of a street, there's the random stranger who'll tell you how Jesus loves you and has a plan for your life, sometimes even going as far as stopping you in the middle of minding your own business to discuss a church where you can be saved.

  • hannah.p.mostert - 2012-08-11 11:34

    Wonderful news may the trend of decline in religions continue!!!

  • TheVern69 - 2012-08-11 11:44

    This is quite interesting...wonder what all the reasons for the change of heart is

      mike.down.5492 - 2012-08-11 15:02

      Proper secular education is the reason for the change.

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 15:09

      They do not realise that Christianity, has been domesticated, from the Crusuding type to it's sweet mediocraty today, from the outside.

      jonathan.fisher.50767 - 2012-08-11 20:08

      The world is also slightly less mysterious. Questions don't go so much unanswered these days so we don't need to assert wish-thinking to full the gaps... we just appeal to science

  • Clayton Richard Delport - 2012-08-11 11:51

    I feel sorry for you shameless people, Trying to break down people's faith by ranting and raving about not having beliefs at all? Your like spoilt little children who hasn't gotten there cake, because you choose not to understand nor follow you think it's right to come on a public forum and mouth of God? Your No better than the racists on this forum! And if you don't care for God why even bother bringing him up in your daily routine? Selfish spoilt ill disciplined children's throwing tantrums! You should be ashamed of yourselves as a human race, every man woman and child has a right to there culture there religion and there faith.

      ianingwe - 2012-08-11 12:14

      As long as you keep your culture, religion and faith out of the social and public arena you will not have others comment but attempt to impose any of these on others and you will have to answer to those who hold different views.

      mike.down.5492 - 2012-08-11 15:03

      Clayton we are all playing the world's smallest violin for you, have you sob-fest in private, you don't need to share

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 16:15

      I fail to feel sorry for a dying religion that has retarded, murdered and mindf%$ked people for 1000 Years. And you bitch about not being able to hold your own on a public forum. Your religion is indefensible to even the most moderate knowledgable atheist. That is why religion pray on the undereducated and credulous. And try to get them when they are young. Cults, you are, and in large numbers you call it religion.

      jonathan.fisher.50767 - 2012-08-11 18:07

      @Clayton And that applies unequivocally to freedom of speech. You come on this forum decrying our right to freedom of speech, as protected and guaranteed by our countries constitution, because it's offensive to you. Why don't you go throw your tantrum elsewhere; no one here gives a flying sh*t about your beliefs in talking snakes and infanticidal deities. Every man, woman and child has a right to there freedom of speech you don't dictate that to us. Stomp your feet up and down in the comfort of your own home you don't need to publicize it on a public forum

      clive.pops.5 - 2012-08-12 12:15

      Clayton, phew... *You're *haven't *off *you're *their *their *their and lots of missing punctuation, and still you want us to take you seriously

  • enlightened.bowman - 2012-08-11 12:11

    About time we lined up with the rest of the world and the 21st century. This is really good news for our country.

      Harold Chisimba - 2012-08-11 13:29

      Triple yawn! Contradicting your own name 'enLIGHTened' '.Good news for our country', really? Wake up CHANA!

      Harold Chisimba - 2012-08-11 14:42

      @ Meeman, Wat Ican vigorously tel youl in repetion is this,Come out from darkness and accept Jesus to save your prodigal soul. Amen meme.

  • esme.collins1 - 2012-08-11 12:41

    Why is there no respect shown for your fellowmans belief, whatever it may be? You all show a lack of tolerance....which reflects your characters and what they truely are!!

      press.enter.12 - 2012-08-11 12:52

      I'm okay with that if you don't limit your argument to respect only for theism . . .

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 13:48

      @Esme Religion insults us on a daily basis, We see the horror that the Parties of God is doing to each other. If you find it offensive to hear me say "There is no God" I am also very offended to hear that there is one, that I am some Gods plaything, or that I can am nothing without a deity, you people have no EVIDENCE for. We do not however act out and seek revenge for our offense, you guys bleet on about blashemy, actually had it on the law books and still in many countries. Well it should then include statements like their is a God then.

  • enlightened.bowman - 2012-08-11 12:47

    Zaatheist has a briliant point.

  • esme.collins1 - 2012-08-11 13:16

    MemeMan your tongue says a lot about you!! Perhaps a chip (crater!)on your shoulder? The discussion was not on cooking or bank bailouts so stick to the subject on hand. My statement was on tolerance of all peoples beliefs of which none is shown towards christianity here. Rather an attack has been made on this particular sector of which some response has been made albeit without "forked" tongue! Being ugly in comments, does not command respect ....... and that goes for my cooking as well!!

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 13:31

      You have the right to express your beliefs and I have the right to find it Ridicules

      mike.down.5492 - 2012-08-11 15:06

      Is that the best you can do esme?????????

      Sunshine- - 2012-08-11 15:36

      So the question then becomes Esme, what are you going to do about it? Complain or converse?

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:36

      You christians cannot spell the word tolerance. Is that why you had to 'convert' entire countries in the past?

  • walter.lebza - 2012-08-11 13:30

    God bless ghana. God bless nigeria excluding boko haram. shame on you SA. Ever since I was born I always wondered who is giving fuel to the sun. Its not the scientist or the goverment. Its obviously God. Thank God for the sun, thank you God for the rain, and seeds, thank you God for the jacaranda trees, this scientists cannot create 1 blade of grass, thank you God for the wisdom and undestanding of a brain, the goverment can't even deliver the textbooks. Thank you oh God for planet mars NASA today is 2 billion dollars richer for landing a toy car on it. Thank God for the particle, higg bosson is so proud today as if he's the one who created the particle. I thank God on behalf of all sinners (atheists) forgive them LORD they think the are scientists. I thank God on behalf of my fellow egineers we are the real scientists. Atheists are not scientists and Jesus is LORD.

      Hayden Johnson - 2012-08-11 13:53

      it always amazes me how religious folk cling to their imaginary sky fairy god dreams despite all the evidence to the contrary, not to mention logic. You can thank your god for all the blades of grass created that you like, it doesnt make it real. just for the record, science doesnt claim creation of anything you idiot. it is a subjective study of what is! Not what you wish was. it seeks out truth through experimentation and discovery and provides evidence that any and all may challenge at any time. not with fairy tale wishes, but with proof. ps, thank you scientists for space travel, motor cars, medicine and medical science that saves lives, the cell phone I am typing on, electricity, aeroplanes, internet etc etc, all of which the god believers bible knew nothing of! Oh yes, what did your god do that was great??? well according to the bible which is packed full of contradictions and lies, god was the greatest mass murdered that ever existed. no wonder we look at the likes of nigeria and have suchg religious mass murder. its all happened before. just look at the good old crusades. well, thats enough from me, you can keep your mass murdering fantasy religious cults. Im very happy being branded an atheist, although 'realist' is more appropriate.

      mike.down.5492 - 2012-08-11 15:08

      Walter, hardly much thought put into your post was there, all the questions you pose have been answered a long time ago and they don't require your magic man whoever your particular one is.

      walter.lebza - 2012-08-11 16:06

      People, I'm also a scientist and a christian. Engineers are scientists. I HATE it when atheists claim science as their own. Is it a problem when I thank God for the ingridients I use to build bridges and tar roads? I don't claim to be wiser than the creator, he created, I take and form things out of what he created. Engineers put astronauts on the moon not atheists as they claim. The reason I believe in God is because I can't prove he doesn't exist.

      jonathan.fisher.50767 - 2012-08-11 18:18

      And thank you god for not existing! If that unpleasant entity existed we'd all be in a lot of trouble especially the religious because they're the biggest hypocrites of all

      CaptainGaza - 2012-08-12 09:28

      Just look at your commentary Walter, u say god bless Nigeria except boko haram, how pathetic is that!!! Surely ur god should bless all. But it is ur own selfish deluided thinking that ur god should listen to your ramblings, what a joke. Then u go on to say u hate atheists, how xtian of u. U sound like one confused nut job, I should pity u but don't because it is a self induced delusion u choose to live in. Shame man!!!\r\n\r\nI doubt very much ur a scientist, u sound more like a religous freak than someone with logic and common sense. Walter, u need to remove ur god goggles and see the reality around u, there is no god

      zaatheist - 2012-08-13 06:12

      walter.lebza People, I'm also a scientist and a christian. I don't believe you as you cannot even write correct grammar, punctuate a sentence or spell. Lying for Jesus are you?

      mike.davies.9081323 - 2012-08-13 16:57

      Walter, have a look at the history of science and see how vigorously the Church tried to suppress Galileo, Copernicus and many other scientists. Like many religious people, you engage in mental tricks to sustain your irrational belief system in the face of the evidence before finally resorting to simple dogma. And no genuine scientist would refer to Curiosity as a 'toy car'!

  • esme.collins1 - 2012-08-11 14:12

    @Mememan: Firstly, you have no idea of my "religious" leanings of which there are many but reading between the lines of the comments made, there appears a lack of tolerance towards christianity. In my faith we are taught tolerance to all and respect. THAT is the point I am trying to put across. What I read, unfortunately does not garner respect.

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 14:54

      Your beliefs in no way demands respect. I can respect you as an individual, I can respect your right to express your views, and I have the right to laugh at that views. I do not tolerate that which is intolerable. Read between the lines? Hahaha, here is a tip, read the actual lines. How can you respect me when the opinion is that we are damned as atheists anyway? I do not respect any opinion that claims to know so much about any God without any evidence, and then turns around and happily condemns me to hell. Especially when humans get things so often and so horribly wrong in this life. What makes you so damn sure of the next one? So sure you would judge all other metaphysics inferior?

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:34

      You're talking absolute rubbish because you're ignorant of your movement's own bloody history where the last thing on your minds were 'tolerance'. Now, in the scientific comfort of the 21st century (whose blessings and products you no doubt enjoy), you plead a case of 'tolerance' for your movement? Ever heard of 'karma' before? Payback? It's time.

      zaatheist - 2012-08-13 06:13

      All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do. I don’t respect the idea that a man was born of a virgin, walked on water and rose from the dead. I don’t respect the idea that we should follow a "Prophet" who at the age of 53 had sex with a nine-year old girl, and ordered the murder of whole villages of Jews because they wouldn’t follow him. Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.– Thomas Jefferson

  • nico.vandermerwe.54 - 2012-08-11 15:38

    @Sunshine : I can counter by asking "why?" For instance : blame Hitler for the holocaust, not national pride. He abused national pride to get his own selfish way. Similarly, fanatics distort their perception of God to suit their own agendas. @Mememan :"Indicators and logic to the contrary?" Can we grasp the concept of infinity? What was before it? And what comes after? One can not grasp infinity because your and my being and brains were created within the finite dimensions of space, time, and all dimensions which science and logic have not uncovered yet. How can you ever define God by using a mortal brain? I am glad that you are still entertaining the concept of God, or a delusional virus in the software of the mind, as you define Him.Be sure, He still entertains and love you! He will not give up on you. You have an excellent and intelligent way of reasoning. Take it one step further and entertain the 'impossible' : what if there IS someone bigger than all we can imagine? Wow.

      Morgoth - 2012-08-11 15:58

      Hi Nico. The reason I adopted the label Atheist, is very simple. I reject the IDEAS of a God who interferes in the natural world, or can be beseeched by prayer, or a god that judges rewards or punishes, There is no evidence of any kind to support this Theistic God. This description of God is non-sence, since no human being can ever claim to know this much about ANY God. So I am an Atheist. Rejecting the Theistic concepts of God. The Deist who believes in a creator, not a meddling one that needs our piety, is one I do not reject entirly either. There is no evidece for or against this Concept of God. Becuase a deist does not claim to know the mind of his God, he cannot claim any authority over people, becuase he feels no direct line to the creator. So for me as an atheist, the deist is harmless, his beliefs will not influence my life. Deist do not claim any special privilages that Theistic religions demand. As for Me? I do not reject Deism completely, only that with or without the this God, none of our scientific descriptive Laws of nature requires this assumption to work. Reject or retain this Deistic God Hypothesis, it does not change a thing on how nature operates.

      nico.vandermerwe.54 - 2012-08-12 07:32

      @mememan. 0,0000001% is good enough for me. God created from nothing. He can work with that percentage. Thanks for a stimulating discussion. Hope to see you around on news forums!

  • matthew.patrick.925 - 2012-08-11 17:16

    I wonder what Simon of Peraea would say about this debate if he were alive today.

      dave.prinsloo - 2012-08-11 22:56

      I don't think he understood english, and would be overwhelmed by the technology. He would pobably enjoy playstation and rammstein more than silly religious banter

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 05:29

      Or getting live feeds from Curiosity on Mars. But then again, how do you explain 'planets' to him?

      dave.prinsloo - 2012-08-13 01:21

      we'll just tell him to 'believe' in planets and space probes and not ask questions, he'll find that easiest

  • amelda.davies - 2012-08-11 18:03

    To ALL the people that slammed my comments, etc. I am who I am. I am proud of it and will not shy away from the fact that I'm religious. Someone wrote that I shouldn't 'take on' ZAATHEIST. Really? He doesn't play a role in my live. I don't care about him. I don't care what he thinks. Certainly not going to change my opinion. And to others: My education? How will you know? Do you know me? No. Do I want you to or care if you do, no. My opinion stays as it is - I am a religious person and proud of it. Thank you.

      dave.prinsloo - 2012-08-11 20:54

      aww, cute

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 06:04

      So what exactly are you 'proud' of? Your movement's 'enlightened' history?

      Lennon Chenga - 2012-08-12 06:24

      Yes we are!!! Very proud to be Christian!! You live your life we will live ours!!! RoyNexusSixSixSix!!!!

      nico.vandermerwe.54 - 2012-08-12 07:43

      Zaatheist does play a role in our lives, though. Just because his views are different from mine does not make him a lesser being in God's creation! As long as he is on this earth he will be important to God

      RoyNexusSix - 2012-08-12 10:20

      I do not feel obliged to believe that the same 'God' who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. ---- Galileo Galilei

      Lennon Chenga - 2012-08-12 10:52

      Don't feel obliged, but don't fool yourself into believing that you are more intelligent than those that do feel obliged, RoyNexusSixSixSix!! Any idiot can go on the net and copy and paste the nonsense they find there!!

      zaatheist - 2012-08-13 06:21

      All that's been left here is a fleshless corpse. Just bones with nothing to pick over. I have read through the comments an still find no evidence for this god some rant so passionately about. In fact I am still left to wonder why anyone would need a god to progress and succeed in life.

      bruning.vankriekenbeek - 2012-08-13 13:07

      Lol Curried Beak shouldn't you be in school boy?

      bharath.bhumi - 2012-08-13 17:39

      To zaatheist...you idiot God does not cause you to succeed in life nor does God cause you to fail in life God has nothing to do with material life :-P

      zaatheist - 2012-08-14 05:56

      Bharath You call yourself a Christian but you do not know your own scripture. Your God specifically instructs that you do no call others fools. So let's do some Bible education for you. NIV 1984. Matthew 5:22: "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." So Mr Christian Bharath who does not know his Bible. I suggest you get down on your knees, close your eyes and beg forgiveness because you are heading for hell,